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sleepwalker
02-26-2006, 00:27
It seems, even though I have very few close encounters to report, bears are my greatest trail fear. My closest encounter was at Hawk Mtn. shelter when I awoke to a frustrated exhale of a black bear looking for scraps around the shelter. I have posted about this before, but it was the funniest sight, 4 grown men sitting upright in their sleeping bags, with 2 inch knives unfurled, peeing themselves...

Anyhow, I watched "grizzly man" and gained a whole new appreciation(and fear-respect)of bears(grizzly or otherwise). Now, I'm wondering if any of you have had such experiences? Or did you see this documentary and come away with a new perspective? I think I am less intimidated having seen this guy kiss a grizzly. What do you think?

hammock engineer
02-26-2006, 00:36
I seen it. Very interesting movie, and I highly recommend it. I think it showed what happens to someone when they spend all their time in the wild with animals. I think he had a connection with the bears and a certain understanding. Unfortunatly I think that you can only tempt fate so many times before something happens.

Sly
02-26-2006, 00:43
Most everyone feels it was going to happen eventually. But I'm wondering, if the didn't go back to the "maze" after not being able to connect with his flight, would he still be alive today?

sleepwalker
02-26-2006, 00:43
Yeah, that's the unfortunate irony. I have a ton of respect for the guy, though. That's the way to go...doing what feels right to you in the heart. It seems like every time I hike I know there's some sort of risk, and I'm willing to take it, even though I have a lot to lose. I guess that's the point. Nothing ventured...nothing gained. Too bad he had to pay such a price for the knowledge.

TJ aka Teej
02-26-2006, 00:44
Sorry - cold heart here, I guess. I was surprised the idiot didn't get killed earlier than he did. It's just too bad he wasn't, because his continued stupidity cost the girl her life.

sleepwalker
02-26-2006, 00:47
Very true teej, I did have a lot of sympathy for her. Seemed like she was dragged along for the rife and ill-mentioned for the trouble.

greentick
02-26-2006, 00:48
That dude was crazy. But I could not bring myself to change the channel. I think it was luck that he made it as far as he did without getting eaten. I also think that he called the bear that got him (from the scene on the river with the bear behind him).

sleepwalker
02-26-2006, 00:55
That dude was crazy. But I could not bring myself to change the channel. I think it was luck that he made it as far as he did without getting eaten. I also think that he called the bear that got him (from the scene on the river with the bear behind him).

Crazy for sure, but I kept thinking that he was obviously driven...driven for the rest of us. I kept trying to put my self in his shoes, and I couldn't. Where do they sell those balls? And you're right, it did seem ominous that he said that bear was(onl at times)capable of killing and eating a human. If that was me I would have left then. But the info we gleaned from that was priceless....awesome stuff!

BigToe
02-26-2006, 01:55
I'm with Teej - Timothy Treadwell cost his girlfriend AND the two bears their lives. I read the book and saw the documentary - I think he did a lot of damage in a very self serving manner to the bears. There's a reason you shouldn't habituate animals to humans. Enjoy them without changing them (as best you can).

Almost There
02-26-2006, 01:59
We talked about this before and in the words of LW...that guy was an asshat...the scene where he was caressing the poop pile was...however...PRICELESS!!!

What he did going back to the maze was pure death wish and stupidity. Celebrating what he did would be similiar to celebrating a climber for attempting Everest during storm season...don't care how experienced a climber he was...stupid is as stupid does!!!

BTW I did think it was an excellent documentary...and the animal footage was great!!! Grizzlies are my favorite animal...but I would never want a hungry one to get my scent. I have talked to survival guides from grizzly country in the past and their feelings are if you go into the backcountry you have to be the village idiot not to carry a gun with you. These aren't black bears on the AT, these are animals with a hump of muscle on their upper back meant expressly for crushing things. There is a reason why they are at the top of the food chain amongst land animals of the Western Hemisphere. The natives of Alaska said it best when they talked of the lack of respect he had for the bears power and their territory. If you want something cute and cuddly...buy a teddy bear.

Sly
02-26-2006, 02:26
BTW I did think it was an excellent documentary...and the animal footage was great!!! Grizzlies are my favorite animal...

You do realize the "footage" was taken by Treadwell? It was great but he was stupid?

I feel sorry for his girlfriend too, but I doubt she was dragged to Alaska.

Y'all should hike the CDT in northern Wyoming and Montana. There's an excellent chance you'll see griz on the trail. I saw a sow with two cubs from less than 100 yards and two others further away and it was outstanding! Also, walked up upon a black bear sow with cub at about 20 feet and a bull moose even less than that. I have them on slides, should get them scanned...

Rifleman
02-26-2006, 03:01
I
Anyhow, I watched "grizzly man" and gained a whole new appreciation(and fear-respect)of bears(grizzly or otherwise). Now, I'm wondering if any of you have had such experiences? Or did you see this documentary and come away with a new perspective? I think I am less intimidated having seen this guy kiss a grizzly. What do you think?

No. I have not had such experiences, nor do I want to. I did not see the documentary, nor do I need to. I read the accounts of Treadwell's suicide-by-bear and was reinforced in the knowledge that fools abound. My perspective is the same. Such individuals have done, and continue to cause themselves to be selected out of the genetic pool. Perhaps his greatest sevice is that his action will influence other genetically challenged individuals to emulate his behavior. Don't be fooled by what you saw. Ursus horribilis is aptly named. Have you had offspring yet?:-?
R.

Scots Guards
02-26-2006, 09:02
MY wife and I ( Both hikers and campers ) watched The Grizzly Man documentary and howeled with laughter all the way through it. I don't know if any of you have seem any of the "mockumentaries" directed by Christopher Guest such as "Waiting For Guffman", "Best Of Show" or "A Mighty Wind"; but watching this thing was like viewing one of those. The guy was a self-parody of an out of reality tree huggin' whacko! The interviews with those who knew him were equaly ludicris. While no one should be killed in such a grusome way, his stupid actions should put him in as a candidate for a recipiant of one of this years Darwin Awards. He's also responsable for the death of another but she wasn't the brightest bulb in pack either.

napster
02-26-2006, 09:41
He lived his dream and died his own nitemare.He hated the Feds with a passion and his passion for them bears ended their lives. I feel if he had toted a weapon he would not opened up to them bears as he did.I enjoyed the show and feel he was off balance somewhat however the snake man and gator man have all been biten and smack around and are still profiting quite well in television shows.I believe he was a good person but mad as hell about things he could never change.I wish he'd taken a longer camera lens and a couple of SAWs.

Topcat
02-26-2006, 09:47
He certainly isnt anyone to be admired. He was a danger to himself and the bears. He projected human emotions onto wild animals where it just doesnt exist. In the end, he was just food on the hoof for the animals he thought "loved" him. Nature is beautiful, but cruel. If you know that going in, you can appreciate it while limiting your risk. If you are delusional, you deserve what happens to you.

The highlight for me is when the young bear is bested by the alpha male and Treadwell is talking to him about women.

Anyone feel that there are similarities with Alexander Supertramp and this guy?

sparky2000
02-26-2006, 10:03
If you want the bears to hide from you as you enjoy the AT, wear an ID tag with a small pendant or something on your backpack so that the light medals tingle together. This sound will scare the wild beast long before you would encounter the terror of the wild.

blindeye
02-26-2006, 10:09
nicely said teej. i still feel sorry for his girlfriend she was talked into that fiasco i' m sure. by the way what exactly did this wingnut prove anyway? that after a few years of harassing grizzly bears, finally the bears have had enough and they kill you? seems like a terrible waste of life for the people as well as the bears. just my two cents!

Max Power
02-26-2006, 10:31
I have to agree with Scots Guard. Timothy looked like one of those goofy thespian majors running around in the woods, smelling poop and screaming at the camera.
The documentary was unbelievable, the director did a great job with the wonderful footage Treadwell provided.

sleepwalker
02-26-2006, 10:38
I was shocked beyond belief that he was not killed on day one, to be honest. He was obviously mentally ill and flamboyant, but it was great to get a close look at grizzlys like that. If anything was accomplished by treadwell's death it's a greater understanding of the animals, which I assume was his point.

Programbo
02-26-2006, 11:11
I didn`t watch it just because of the way the guy looked and acted on the promo commercials..I would have expected a Grizzly Adams or Jeremiah Johnson type character this guy just looked like he should be on the beach in Malibu saying "Whoa dude! Surf`s up man!"....I guess I`m just a living in the nature past type person but I got an extreme sports,X-Games,Reality TV vibe just from seeing the guy and his attitude

Just Jeff
02-26-2006, 11:45
Haven't seen it, but I just set the box to record. Ain't DVR great?!

Like others have been mentioned, I think he did the bears a disservice by making them comfortable around humans. And didn't he usually find them at their feeding places? Bears are smart, but not that smart - that may be enough for bears to associate humans with food in the future if they're hungry and grumpy.

Can't wait to see the show.

Smile
02-26-2006, 12:10
In my opinion, this did more to set back the attitude of the general public to those trying to bring light to the plight of wild species (not just bears) than it did good.

The amount of publicity this is getting makes it easier for those who do not understand folks who DO put themselves out there for the preservation of the environment and endangered species, to label them as whackos.

Which is too bad, because there are sane people out there every day who have not gotten this kind of publicity who are doing positive things to help bears, and other creatures gain ground against the possible threats from human beings.


Two word summary: An embarrassment

C_Brice
02-26-2006, 12:53
This may be bad to say, but geez I hope this guy didn't breed. Definetly not enough left in his gene pool for successful reproduction. The guy cried over a dead fox, he was emotionally touched by the site of a dead bee, he fondled fresh bear crap. I coundn't turn the channel fast enough. What a puke! Bunny huggers like him give humans a bad name. Not only that but in a interveiw with a woman (didn't catch her name) they seemed to imply he was some sort of drug addicted, violent, wild man. That guy was just plain a moron and anyone envolved with the making/airring of that crap needs to be droped in to the bush, around a bunch of bears, with a t-bone strapped to thier butt. A 100% complete waste of time and effort. I think that they could find something better to do than to make/aire a crappy story about a guy without enough grey-matter in his head to walk across a room without severe risk of death.

Chris

Ridge
02-26-2006, 13:08
This guy should have been rescued from himself years ago. It's a shame the girl and the two bears had to die. He, on the other hand, was already seeking to become that great big pile of bear crap. He was completely off his rocker.

Almost There
02-26-2006, 13:12
Sly I am well aware of the fact that Treadwell filmed the footage...is that supposed to make him some kind of Freaking GENIUS. Have you ever heard of Idiot Savants? These are people who are mentally deficient but can see notes as they play Mozart or Bach. They never need lessons and they play like virtuosos. Ever see Rainman??? Treadwell filmed well, but was an asshat!!!

Dances with Mice
02-26-2006, 14:14
Looking for a hiking-related home business? Consider designing and making portable electric fences to deter bears. The NOLS has a prototype, still a bit heavy for individual hikers but there's probably room for re-engineering and optimization. Imagine one set up around your tent, or across a shelter opening:
http://www.nols.edu/resources/research/pdfs/lfence.pdf

It would also teach hikers not to pee out of shelters...

Pacific Tortuga
02-26-2006, 14:30
An idiot with passion,is still an idiot, the fact he lived among them for 12 years is amazing. I would love to have that kind of commitment to dedicate my life to one of the worlds creations but God help me from becomming an idiot about it.

Stix
02-26-2006, 14:43
Yea I didn’t get it when he kept saying that he was protecting the bears. How was he protecting the bears? This guy clearly had some mental issues.

Lone Wolf
02-26-2006, 14:46
No fries in his happy meal.

saimyoji
02-26-2006, 15:12
No fries in his happy meal.

Which may have been a good thing for him...Wasn't he a veggietarian or vegan? Those Happy fries aren't friendly to veggietarians/vegans.

Rain Man
02-26-2006, 15:24
Perhaps this human was just way ahead of his time, like the first human to domesticate wolves?

I don't know,-- but I am not surprised to see lots of humans very very sure of their own reactionary fear-based instincts.

Mankind is advanced by the brave and sacrificial, not by scaredy-cats who stick to orthodoxy.

Rain:sunMan

.

saimyoji
02-26-2006, 15:31
Perhaps this human was just way ahead of his time, like the first human to domesticate wolves?


Are you suggesting we domesticate bears for our benefit? I don't outright disagree, but I can't think how it would benefit humans.

Almost There
02-26-2006, 16:11
Domesticating wolves by the first humans served a very valid purpose...and there were far more of them back in prehistoric times. Today, what would be the purpose of domesticating bears? To ride around on a tricycle? Just as many say there is a fine line between genius and insanity...so too is there a fine line between bravery and stupidity. The Maze in October=Stupidity!!

littlefoot
02-26-2006, 17:52
...it's on here tonight. I guess it may have been on last night as well...turned in early dreaming of new gear and trails ahead.

Tinker
02-26-2006, 18:28
If Treadwell is a good indicator of what an environmentalist is, maybe he (we) ARE wackos!:cool:

Mr. Bear -

"Hmmmmmmm - acts like a nut, but doesn't taste like one.........":jump

If he thought he was out there for the bears, he was misguided, as the native man interviewed insinuated.

One bear he was out there to "protect" paid the ultimate price, as did Mr. Treadwell's partner, so I guess, had Mr.T survived, he might have been charged with manslaugter for bringing her there (except for the fact that she was there of her own volition).

"Mr. Rogers meets Mr. Bear?"

So sad on so many levels.

The Will
02-26-2006, 19:50
I'm in agreement with Treadwell's basic premise which was/is that grizzly bears are misunderstood and perhaps much of his footage indicated such. But I don't see any good end to the habituation of a predatory animal to humans, chiefly the protection of that animal.

Topcat
02-26-2006, 21:25
Altruism is rare. I like Tinker's comment and think it is right on. He was out there for himself, not the bears. It made him feel good and important to do what he was doing. I guess that is true of all of us from time to time.

SGTdirtman
02-27-2006, 00:14
i can see this guys point of veiw and all that.... being somewhat of a nutjob nature lover myself I've put myself in harms way with many wild animals, But here this guy actually seemed to think he was a bear. He was friends with the bears.... this goes beyond being a nature lover and being someone who may have benifited from some serious help. My friends have called me dumb before because I will knowingly endager my saftey to help an animal but I dont go around trying to be buddies with animals. They are wild... in the wild its eat or be eaten... in the wild animals eat each other...

and this guy did a wonderfull job proving this point at the cost of 2 lives, I feel bad for his friends and family and respect him for doing what he loved... but in a sense i would hope my friends and family would stop me if i ever said "hey mom im gonna go live in the woods and try to become a bear"

Tinker
02-27-2006, 00:22
i can see this guys point of veiw and all that.... being somewhat of a nutjob nature lover myself I've put myself in harms way with many wild animals, But here this guy actually seemed to think he was a bear. He was friends with the bears.... this goes beyond being a nature lover and being someone who may have benifited from some serious help. My friends have called me dumb before because I will knowingly endager my saftey to help an animal but I dont go around trying to be buddies with animals. They are wild... in the wild its eat or be eaten... in the wild animals eat each other...

and this guy did a wonderfull job proving this point at the cost of 2 lives, I feel bad for his friends and family and respect him for doing what he loved... but in a sense i would hope my friends and family would stop me if i ever said "hey mom im gonna go live in the woods and try to become a bear"

This is a perfect description.:p

mountain_stream
02-27-2006, 01:07
Good movie and book... could have done without the rants and his old girl friend. Still not sure what the scoop is on the poaching... Tim T never proofed his case but recently I have seen footage that is suppose to be from that area with dead bears missing body parts....

And I dont really agree that Amy was totally unaware... This was not her first time up there and one good look eye-to-eye with those bears should have brought a good dose of reality to anyone....

In any case, the whole thing is a shame in many ways although Tim brought back some incredible footage...

He obviously had extreme emotional and depression issues which led to his inability to socially adjust...

Inability to socially adjust... now we are talking something I can relate to...

mtn

Scots Guards
02-27-2006, 01:26
Let's face it people. Wild animals are what they are; wild animals! Some of which are quite vicious! No amount of wishfull thinking, attempted befriending and understanding will ever change that. The lion will not lie down by the lamb until later. Till then, beware, pack a gun, carry a big stick or stay out of the wild.

Sly
02-27-2006, 01:53
Let's face it people. Wild animals are what they are; wild animals! Some of which are quite vicious! No amount of wishfull thinking, attempted befriending and understanding will ever change that. The lion will not lie down by the lamb until later. Till then, beware, pack a gun, carry a big stick or stay out of the wild.

So what do you think we should do with the National Parks, Forests and Wildlife Refuges, close them?

Scots Guards
02-27-2006, 08:13
You missed the point. Wild animals are what they are, Wild animals. They are NOT humans. They aren't wired the way we are and no amount of fuzzy headed, touchy feely thinking is going to make it so. Some are really cute critters that are pretty docile but they are still wild. However, there are plenty who are dangerous, nasty predators who are wired to hunt, kill, eat, protect and propagate the species. That's all. Grizzly Man failed to realize this and his delusional stupidity got him and another person killed. As for going to the wilds such as NPs and such; Go, have fun. Just use some sense and be careful. Oh and don't try and play with the big nasty bears. They'll want more than your picnic basket!

Chantilly Lace
02-27-2006, 10:32
Treadwell was a self-serving moron. For an intelligent account of a man's first hand experience with grizzlies read Doug Peacock's 'Grizzly Years.' Now there's a man to be respected!

Sly
02-27-2006, 10:35
You missed the point. Wild animals are what they are, Wild animals. They are NOT humans.


Tell it to Jane Goodall

Sly
02-27-2006, 10:39
<!--StartFragment --> “I tend to like the animals that can kill and eat me.” Doug Peacock.

neighbor dave
02-27-2006, 10:42
:-? entertainin' fo sho! hey to each their own. some people stay within the normal "set boundries" of life and preach how everyone else should be living like them,and perpetuate misery the whole time. others don't take what is commonly reffered to as "life" so seriously and go out and do what they really want to do,whether they fit in or not,whether it eventually kills them or not.:welcome :sun

Philip Jones
02-27-2006, 11:48
The simplistic and reactionary responses in this thread are disappointing. Ok - wild animals are dangerous - we get it. Werner Herzog wouldn't have gone to the trouble of making the movie if he thought it was only a morality tale on acting irresponsibly. We can get that from a Park Service brochure.

If you saw the movie, you may remember that TT was a nobody before he started going to Alaska. Becoming the "grizzly man" gave his life purpose, direction, and meaning. You can't separate his ego from his genuine desire to "protect" the bears -- they were two sides of the same coin. The mainstream American culture that had so alienated him was the same force that he believed was threatening the bears. He only felt truly alive and at peace with himself when he was out there. This is the same basic force that makes so many WB'ers devotees of the AT, and which leads to the AT being over-mythologized. Sure, Treadwell picked a much more extreme environment, which was probably driven in large part by the degree of his own emotional turmoil. (And his girlfriend was free to choose whether to go with him or not.) So, try to be a little more imaginative and thoughtful in your responses. Just condemning him really doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Lion King
02-27-2006, 11:57
PROS:


He found himself.
He spent a great deal of time in beautiful country
He got to have the visaul experiance of watching Grizzlies


CONS:

Gruzzy bears are large carnivores who have been known to eat people pretty easily

He didnt help the animals...if he did, How?

He endangered the grizzlies by allowing them to become habituated to humans, a friendly bear is a dead bear, or a bear that will approach people and eat them or their food

He was insane..his mad screaming rambling about God and Allah and the 'floaty thing'...dude was mad.

He was a failed actor, he wanted to be in the spotlight and he got that.

I think he wanted to get eaten so he would be famous, its like a dangerous criminal, they want to be seen and appreicated and loved through whatever means...well...thats everyone I guess...(Looks at own movie)

He forced nature to bend to his will. By altering the flow of the stream and tricking the slamon into swimming the wrong way so the bears could eat where he wanted them to he co09uld have damaged the fish population.

I guess being someone who has spent months and months and years if combine all the months, to me, he came across as a man who wasnt there for the bears.

nattyd123
02-27-2006, 13:52
I can't support the idea that grizzly bears are more dangerous than humans...

napster
02-27-2006, 14:20
nattyd123I wrote I can't support the idea that grizzly bears are more dangerous than humans...

So are you gonna stay away from people and shelters and use yo food bag as a pillow or just tote a bigace fortefo on your thru?

Newb
02-27-2006, 14:53
Watching Treadwell was a hard thing to do. He was obviously manic and was in desperate need of mental health therapy..if not outright medication. The fact that nobody stepped forward and saved him from himself is the real tragedy, not that a mentally ill man got eaten by a bear.

Bilko
02-27-2006, 14:55
Treatwell, seemed frustrated with his own sexual idenity. Not, that there is anything wrong with that. After he lost the 'Cheers' part to Woody Harrelson he decided to make his own series and become the star. He did seem like a frustrated actor. The poor boy seemed to have lost his mind as the years and the camera rolled on.

However, he did a great job with the camera. It was a great documentary. His only problem was he should have hired Woody to play his part in the documentary.

Sly
02-27-2006, 14:59
His only problem was he should have hired Woody to play his part in the documentary.

Hmmm.. And I thought all along it was Tredwell playing a stoned Woody! ;)<!-- / message -->

MOWGLI
02-27-2006, 15:01
<!--StartFragment --> “I tend to like the animals that can kill and eat me.” Doug Peacock.


Peacock was the inspiration for Ed Abbey's character Hayduke from The Monkey Wrench Gang.

Regarding bears being more dangerous than humans, one on one perhaps. But other than a liitle bear fart here & there, I don't see grizzlies contributing to global warming or destroying entire ecosystems. Or crapping in a river and then complaining when dead rats wash up on the beach.

Perhaps that was Natty's point.

And Phillip Jones, I agree with you. I can empathize with Treadwell. I see a bit of him in me. As I said in the original thread on this subject, when I got sober 20 years ago, I returned to the things that I did as a kid that made me feel most alive. That was fishing and hiking and exploring new & exciting places, and founding a non-profit organization to raise awareness about a serious issue. For Treadwell it was bears. For me it was tropical rainforest ecosystems andthe vanishing native people who live there.

Say what you will, but the guy died living a dream. It's too bad he took that young lady with him.

Newb
02-27-2006, 15:04
I still say the tragedy is that we live in a society that will let a mentally ill man go play with wild bears and do nothing to stop him.

nattyd123
02-27-2006, 15:09
Spot on Mowgli

MOWGLI
02-27-2006, 15:09
I still say the tragedy is that we live in a society that will let a mentally ill man go play with wild bears and do nothing to stop him.

If Orangebug (who is a Psychiatrist) said that, I'd be inclined to pay a little bit of attention. But something tells me that he wouldn't try to diagnose somebody from watching a movie or videotape.

Sly
02-27-2006, 15:14
I still say the tragedy is that we live in a society that will let a mentally ill man go play with wild bears and do nothing to stop him.

Opinion noted. Apart from a TV psychological evaluation, it's too bad modern man has become so far detached from the natural world.

And how wild are Grizzly's?

http://animal.discovery.com/tuneins/grizzly.html

Newb
02-27-2006, 15:37
If Orangebug (who is a Psychiatrist) said that, I'd be inclined to pay a little bit of attention. But something tells me that he wouldn't try to diagnose somebody from watching a movie or videotape.

Bah. I know crazy when I see it. You don't have to be a doctor to know when someone is a nut. That's like calling a tow-truck to confirm you have a flat tire.

Almost There
02-27-2006, 16:25
Having worked with mentally ill children, I'll say it too. Treadwell was probably bipolar or suffered from some kind of clinical depression. No I am not a Dr. but you can narrow it down to a few even if you aren't but have been around it a bunch.

xXIndyXx
02-27-2006, 16:35
Very true teej, I did have a lot of sympathy for her. Seemed like she was dragged along for the rife and ill-mentioned for the trouble.

So, Treadwill drug her out to Alaska against her own well knowing that a grizzly could kill her

Also, are you saying that a 30 something year old grown woman can not make up her mind for herself. 3 straight summers none the less.

get real

Sly
02-27-2006, 16:36
For sake of argument, let's say Treadwell was sane, would it then be OK to live with the griz?

Rain Man
02-27-2006, 16:36
Treadwell was going to die in L.A. from extreme alcoholism and drug abuse, based on comments in the show. Instead, he took off to Alaska, became obsessed with grizzlies, stopped abusing drugs (and that includes alcohol), and lived an exciting, fulfilling life for another 13 years.

One way to look at it is that the bears didn't kill the guy, they saved his life. If I were about to die and some doctor offered me a cure to live another 10+ years of active and joyous life, I just might consider it a miracle.

That aside,-- I agree Treadwell was abnormal! But some of the hateful and simplistic posts on here are uncalled-for.

Rain:sunMan

.

Sly
02-27-2006, 16:40
I guess since Treadwell was considered mentally ill, his girlfriend had to be too. Why else would she follow him?

Adom
02-27-2006, 16:51
Why don't you guys understand people and bears don't mix?

More of both will die when people pull this garbage.

wacocelt
02-27-2006, 16:59
The guy died the way he wanted to, in the woods with the bears he loved. His girlfriend had to have known the dangers of being there with him, who doesn't know that grizzlies eat people for christsake?
I'de rather see more people die doing what they love than having heart attacks and strokes while in traffic or at thier desks.

Adom
02-27-2006, 17:00
At what expense?

Sly
02-27-2006, 17:02
Why don't you guys understand people and bears don't mix?

Who says, you?

http://animal.discovery.com/tuneins/grizzly.html

Treadwell was out there 13 years and the most likely reason he died is because he went back late!

Sly
02-27-2006, 17:06
I could give more examples of people dying on a trail hiking than getting eaten by a griz. Does that mean hiking and trails don't mix? Or that it's too dangerous to hike?

Adom
02-27-2006, 17:08
I've watched and read a lot about this case.

He habituated himself with these bears. I am not certain and no expert but I really doubt a bear is going know the difference between TT and a hunter, or maybe a fisherman, or a hiker untill it's to late for one or the other.

This point is brought to light by a biologist on the documentary.

Adom
02-27-2006, 17:12
Last I checked trails weren't endangered habitats and people weren't fragile species.

I guess if you think it's fine to habituate bears and people then I'll just disagree.

neighbor dave
02-27-2006, 17:27
I am not certain and no expert but I really doubt a bear is going know the difference between TT and a hunter, or maybe a fisherman, or a hiker untill it's to late for one or the other.


:-? i'm not singling out adom here,but.... i don't understand why a large % of the population of human beings on this earth think we are smart and intelectual (sp) (sorry can't spell,good example eh?) and animals are stupid or unaware of their surroudings or things that may bring harm to them.
example; wow! did you see how stupid that moose is? he just stood there while i shot it,he can't see,why did it run right out in front of my car??? meanwhile the moose doesn't bother anyone,eats plant life and wonders around all winter with no clothes on!!wow! you know that guy went to harvard on a scholarship and invented the computor?? meanwhile he's cheatin' on his wife lyin' to the rest of his family, could be in cahoots with derelict people of authority, and so on and so forth. i know who the smart one is do you??:eek:

MOWGLI
02-27-2006, 17:35
Last I checked trails weren't endangered habitats....

Better check again. The Appalachian NST is the single most biologically diverse unit of the NPS. More species of threatened & endangered species are found along the AT than any other unit of the NPS. More than 2000 rare species!!! The ATC and thier land manager partners try to route the trail around fragile and rare ecosystems wherever possible.

That's not to discount you comment about humans habituating bears. That's legit. Near as I can tell, he didn't feed 'em, but he did get too close - repeatedly.

Adom
02-27-2006, 17:37
Sorry, you're post makes very little sense to me but I'll try to respond.

I do not find animals stupid in anyway and I could actually write out a lot of terrible words to describe most of humanity. I've spent a lot of time out doors and a lot of time around different animals, they know the woods better than I could ever dream of. Actually I think I'm starting to understand and agree with your post in away but I don't see what that has to do with me? I just don't think bears should be habituated by humans, more for the bears sake than humans, we can afford casualties more than the bears can.
A lot of bad things can happen when grizzlies get used to people, mainly they get shot.

Adom
02-27-2006, 17:41
I knew I'd eat that one but I can't edit, that is interesting though, I didn't know that about the NST.

For the record I'm here for hiking information I'm not going to discuss Grizzly Man here anymore.

neighbor dave
02-27-2006, 17:53
Sorry, you're post makes very little sense to me but I'll try to respond.

I do not find animals stupid in anyway and I could actually write out a lot of terrible words to describe most of humanity. I've spent a lot of time out doors and a lot of time around different animals, they know the woods better than I could ever dream of. Actually I think I'm starting to understand and agree with your post in away but I don't see what that has to do with me? I just don't think bears should be habituated by humans, more for the bears sake than humans, we can afford casualties more than the bears can.
A lot of bad things can happen when grizzlies get used to people, mainly they get shot.

i was just responding to your comment that the bear probably doesn't know the difference between a creature in it's proximity that intends to harm it and a creature that is there passively.
people don't give animals enough credit. why were there next to no animals killed in the sunami in indonesia,but a huge amount of so-called intelligent human beings killed? humans are definatly the supreme beings on earth by a far streach,so why do we expect them to be??
not singling you out. all the best:welcome

Sly
02-27-2006, 17:56
For the record I'm here for hiking information

Hiking is a dangerous activity and it's easy to become habituated. Best left to the mentally ill. ;)

neighbor dave
02-27-2006, 17:56
humans are definatly "not" the supreme beings on earth by a far streach,so why do we expect them to be??

had to make that correction, what happened to the edit feature??:-? :sun

Nearly Normal
02-27-2006, 18:03
That boy was fool,
anyone can't see he was fool,
is fool himself.
pete

Adom
02-27-2006, 18:07
Luckily I'm crazier than a $hit house rat.

Skidsteer
02-27-2006, 18:34
I can't support the idea that grizzly bears are more dangerous than humans...

Hmmm....perhaps. There are many more than two sides to that coin. Here's one: There are 35,000 grizzlies and what? like 6 billion humans? (help me out here). Would there be 35,000 humans on this earth if there were 6 billion grizzlies? Yes, Yes, I know it's faulty reasoning but it's still interesting to ponder.

Skidsteer
02-27-2006, 18:36
PROS:


He found himself.
He spent a great deal of time in beautiful country
He got to have the visaul experiance of watching Grizzlies


CONS:

Gruzzy bears are large carnivores who have been known to eat people pretty easily

He didnt help the animals...if he did, How?

He endangered the grizzlies by allowing them to become habituated to humans, a friendly bear is a dead bear, or a bear that will approach people and eat them or their food

He was insane..his mad screaming rambling about God and Allah and the 'floaty thing'...dude was mad.

He was a failed actor, he wanted to be in the spotlight and he got that.

I think he wanted to get eaten so he would be famous, its like a dangerous criminal, they want to be seen and appreicated and loved through whatever means...well...thats everyone I guess...(Looks at own movie)

He forced nature to bend to his will. By altering the flow of the stream and tricking the slamon into swimming the wrong way so the bears could eat where he wanted them to he co09uld have damaged the fish population.

I guess being someone who has spent months and months and years if combine all the months, to me, he came across as a man who wasnt there for the bears.

Great summation! Couldn't agree more.

SGTdirtman
02-27-2006, 19:01
He was pretty insane, alot of his screaming and rambling was really nuts.... the part where he was screaming to jesus and allah and floaty things to bring him rain, then his 10 minute cursing sessions where he claimed to have beaten the world....

the part that got me was his friends and family during the commentary saying he had a long history of depression and wasnt mentally well but he refused to take medication. They knew dude was nuts... I mean given the circumstances one can sum this up to be an extremely elaborate suicide. The guy claimed many times that a bear could kill him and he wouldnt care.

johnny quest
02-27-2006, 19:04
guy was an idiot. someone asked early in this thread where they sell balls like that. they sell them in the same place where fanatics get the "courage" to strap on explosives and walk into a school or church and blow themselves up. thats not balls. its evil and insanity mixed

sleepwalker
02-27-2006, 19:14
Treadwell was going to die in L.A. from extreme alcoholism and drug abuse, based on comments in the show. Instead, he took off to Alaska, became obsessed with grizzlies, stopped abusing drugs (and that includes alcohol), and lived an exciting, fulfilling life for another 13 years.

One way to look at it is that the bears didn't kill the guy, they saved his life. If I were about to die and some doctor offered me a cure to live another 10+ years of active and joyous life, I just might consider it a miracle.

That aside,-- I agree Treadwell was abnormal! But some of the hateful and simplistic posts on here are uncalled-for.

Rain:sunMan

.

I tend to agree with Rain Man. Athough,I am beginning to understand the damage Treadwell did under the guise of giving assistance. I think, though, that he was deeply inspired, albeit misdirected. I have been inspired many times in my life to do things most people think are nuts...attempting an AT thru hike being one of them. All of us know there are risks involoved in our recreational persuits, whether it be hiking, climbing, skiing, etc and we accept those risks to do what we love to do.

Although Treadwell was insane, I appreciate the footage he shot and what I learned about an animal I may never have learned about other wise.

Ridge
02-27-2006, 19:22
That Grizzlies are cute and cuddly and really safer to be around than once thought is an unfortunate perception some may come away with. Be on notice that Threadwell was disturbed, to say the least, but if you are this whacked out, then you too can have at it.

Almost There
02-27-2006, 19:25
Sly...Be Nice!!!

I agree that what got him killed was going back so late in the season. That is where I am saying with his 13 YEARS of experience he should have known better. Yes the girl went of her own accord...but the question is did she realize how dangerous it would have been so late in the season? He should have known this even if she didn't, and should have just stayed close and waited for another flight. He even admitted that he didn't know most of the bears when he returned...and in her journal she commented on the fateful trip that he might have a deathwish....and she was preparing to leave him. Unfortunately she never got the chance and died with her "Prince Valiant".

Lone Wolf
02-27-2006, 19:28
This is a way stupid discussion. He's dead, he asked for it. Thank Christ he didn't breed. Next?

Sly
02-27-2006, 19:38
Sly...Be Nice!!!

I try, but it's so hard.

I have that little L. Wolf looking guy hanging on one shoulder going stir the pot, stir the pot! :D

Belew
02-27-2006, 19:41
Bonkers, thats all he was.

C_Brice
02-27-2006, 20:52
To tell the truth I am pleasantly suprized more of you aren't treating this guy like a misunderstood genius. I figured I would watch this post and see it become a pro-treadwell discussion. Everyone seems to agree he was a moron. WOW!

My main problem with the story is not treadwell. He was a full blown idiot for sure. But my main problem is with the people that actually decided that this story deserved air time. People went out, interveiwed people, edited the footage and tried their best to show him as a great eviromentalist. Then they decided it was good enough to produce and air on TV. I'd like to know what kinda $$ went into this, who provided it, and who got it. The people involved in this project are as moronic as treadwell. People and organizations like treadwell, pita, ALF, etc. get way to much air-time for thier extremist veiws in an attempt to mainstream their far, far, far left agendas. Why we even know who these people/groups is beyond comprehension.

Chris

Ridge
02-27-2006, 20:56
.......But my main problem is with the people that actually decided that this story deserved air time..........

THATS ENTERTAINMENT!!!! thats why. Anything for a story.

Skidsteer
02-27-2006, 21:07
To tell the truth I am pleasantly suprized more of you aren't treating this guy like a misunderstood genius. I figured I would watch this post and see it become a pro-treadwell discussion. Everyone seems to agree he was a moron. WOW!

My main problem with the story is not treadwell. He was a full blown idiot for sure. But my main problem is with the people that actually decided that this story deserved air time. People went out, interveiwed people, edited the footage and tried their best to show him as a great eviromentalist. Then they decided it was good enough to produce and air on TV. I'd like to know what kinda $$ went into this, who provided it, and who got it. The people involved in this project are as moronic as treadwell. People and organizations like treadwell, pita, ALF, etc. get way to much air-time for thier extremist veiws in an attempt to mainstream their far, far, far left agendas. Why we even know who these people/groups is beyond comprehension.

Chris

Are you kiddin' me? If Werner whats-his-name was trying to present TT as a great environmentalist he failed abysmally! And I suspect that the last person PETA, ALF, etc would want as a documented, televised poster-boy for their cause is Timothy Fedwell.:confused:

MOWGLI
02-27-2006, 21:11
But my main problem is with the people that actually decided that this story deserved air time. .... Then they decided it was good enough to produce and air on TV.

Chris

If it was so bad, how can you comment on this? You too Ridge. Obviously you two didn't watch it? Right? It sucked. Remember?

woodsy
02-27-2006, 21:31
If you have children, especially boys, take their overstuffed teddy bears away from them before they become adults!

Ridge
02-27-2006, 21:34
If it was so bad, how can you comment on this? You too Ridge. Obviously you two didn't watch it? Right? It sucked. Remember?

Oh yea, I watched it twice, just to see the Katmai NP area. I didn't say the show was bad, I was just saying that Threadwell was a suicidaly crazed maniac who wanted to swap his hand from the crap that was just inside the bear to himself becoming the crap.

Navigator
02-27-2006, 21:43
"Natural Selection" Mother Natures way of cleaning the gene pool.

Programbo
02-27-2006, 22:01
If you have children, especially boys, take their overstuffed teddy bears away from them before they become adults!

Why?..I`ve always had lots of teddy bears and I turned out..Ummm..Hmmm :-?

Skidsteer
02-27-2006, 22:05
Why?..I`ve always had lots of teddy bears and I turned out..Ummm..Hmmm :-?

A teddy bear and a camera tripod seem to work well for tent support after you chastise the Almighty.;)

AbeHikes
02-27-2006, 22:13
He should have stuck with the foxes. Poor, dumb bastard...

KirkMcquest
02-27-2006, 22:15
I watched it and came away a bit conflicted about how to take Treadwell. Did he have a few screws loose? Absolutely. Did Werner show footage that might have been left out, out of respect for treadwell and his family, absolutely.
I don't think its fair to judge someone based on some footage that he took while alone for months on end and noone to talk to. Surely, if treadwell had his way, none of those rantings would have been made public.

sleepwalker
02-27-2006, 23:44
I watched it and came away a bit conflicted about how to take Treadwell. Did he have a few screws loose? Absolutely. Did Werner show footage that might have been left out, out of respect for treadwell and his family, absolutely.
I don't think its fair to judge someone based on some footage that he took while alone for months on end and noone to talk to. Surely, if treadwell had his way, none of those rantings would have been made public.

Another great point. There's quite the dynamic to this.

Sly
02-28-2006, 02:41
Herzog showed Treadwell in the worst possible light, which was his intention. The Grizzly Diaries were much better.

RITBlake
02-28-2006, 04:27
just watched grizzly man on the discovery channel.
I don't feel bad for him
I don't feel bad for the girl.
sorry.

Blue Jay
02-28-2006, 08:19
just watched grizzly man on the discovery channel.
I don't feel bad for him
I don't feel bad for the girl.
sorry.

Why would you? They didn't live their lives in a cubicle.

MOWGLI
02-28-2006, 08:29
Why would you? They didn't live their lives in a cubicle.

Having left that world behind (in '03) for a new reality, I can relate.

Scots Guards
03-01-2006, 10:22
Mowgli: A new reality? What might that be? I'm curious.

Ridge
08-15-2006, 04:40
http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim_Treadwell.html

Newb
08-15-2006, 07:30
the guy was manic. He needed an intervention.

shuffle
08-15-2006, 07:57
I bought the movie becase I love to learn about animals in their natural surroundings. Well I was still trying to figure out what was wrong with this guy half way through the movie. He seemed very dedicated to the cause but also very out of it to say the least. No one desrves to die like that but he kind of tempted fate and when you put yourself in those situations, things do happen that you can't control. I wouldn't reccomend it but the footage of the grizzly was awesome.

Just Jeff
08-15-2006, 10:21
the guy was manic. He needed an intervention.

I'd say he got one...

nicodemus
08-15-2006, 23:25
doesn't the movie have something to do with attitude. Yes, the man may have had some shakey psychological aspects to his personality, but it proved how far you can get around some tremendously strong and scary animals. I did something stupid while camping once, and did I get hurt...hell no...the bears just thought I was pissed off and crazy. Back in '94 camping in Yosemite, and got woken up by three bears scavenging around for food, and I got up totally pissed off, and ran all three of them out of the area. By the time my boyfriend got out of the tent all he saw was three fuzzy butts running towards the river. I'm not really a morning person. But....if I had been anything but truly angry at them I don't think they would have left the area the way that they did. All about the attitude.

Just Jeff
08-15-2006, 23:28
You helped them disassociate people from food, and associate people with fear. Might have saved their lives. Good on ya.

bfitz
08-15-2006, 23:52
Well...sometimes you have to respect crazy.

Ridge
08-16-2006, 00:33
Treadwell treated the time with the Bears and other wildlife like he was the Mr. Rogers of the Alaskan wilderness. Well Tim, it turned out to be a "Grizzly day in the neighborhood".

Heater
08-16-2006, 01:26
Treadwell treated the time with the Bears and other wildlife like he was the Mr. Rogers of the Alaskan wilderness.

Mr. Rogers, huh? Well, the Rangers did say that they found their shoes placed neatly in the vestibule.

:D

Ridge
08-16-2006, 01:44
That's right, I read that. Pretty funny. They also pointed out he was giving the foxes treats, as pointed out, in some of the films the foxes would lick his fingers and follow him around like a puppy. I'll stop with this quote from a Grizz: "When the fish run out, I'm eating the surfer dude"

Newb
08-16-2006, 07:50
A bear ate him. I wish a bear would eat this thread.

Darwin again
08-16-2006, 16:16
Mention gLoBal wArmInG and the thread will disappear. -- poof! --:D

bfitz
08-17-2006, 03:02
http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=230819&GT1=7702

One Leg
08-17-2006, 03:36
Treadway's been portrayed in the media as an idiot who got himself eaten by bears.

What hasn't been pointed out is that he survived 13 seasons with the bears, authored 2 books, and has provided countless hours of grizzly video that'll be helpful for future bear research.

Having spent 13 seasons in bear country, it's safe to say that he let his guard down and took things for granted. The season he was mauled was to have been his last season in Alaska.

As for Amie Huguenard, his female companion, I have a hard time with the fact that he's blamed for the grizzly mauling her. She didn't blindly go with him; she'd spent 3 seasons in the wilderness with him. She knew the risks and accepted them. She wasn't stupid; she was a Physicians Assistant, a well-educated lady.

More reading can be found at http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim_Treadwell.html

Fear keeps you on your couch. The desire for excitement and challange leads you to explore trails unknown.

-Scott

sliderule
08-17-2006, 10:46
I still say the tragedy is that we live in a society that will let a mentally ill man go play with wild bears and do nothing to stop him.

The alternative would be that we live in a society where someone else decides for us what risks are acceptable and forces us to abide by their decision. That would be a real tragedy.

Benjamin Franklin said it well: "Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."

Almost There
08-17-2006, 11:11
TREADWAY=:jump

D'Artagnan
08-17-2006, 11:57
http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=230819&GT1=7702


Unfortunately, that crap happens all too often. Those with money to burn and a desire to have a "trophy room" can buy whatever they want. Sad.

Almost There
08-17-2006, 12:26
Unfortunately, that crap happens all too often. Those with money to burn and a desire to have a "trophy room" can buy whatever they want. Sad.

Agreed, what is the difference between throwing cats into trash can fires and shooting bears in enclosed pens?!? What an Asshat!

nuwatiman
08-17-2006, 12:42
I wish they would have played the tape of him being attacked, just so that we could know what it sounds like when your being attacked by a bear. It could be a teaching tool to help us learn about bear attacks.

atraildreamer
08-17-2006, 12:56
Grizzly Man = a foul-mouthed, whack-job. :eek:

Sorry they got killed, but what did he really expect to happen? :-?

Newb
08-24-2006, 08:54
Treadway was a manic nut. If he'd been packing heat that bear wouldn't have eaten him.

sliderule
08-24-2006, 09:59
Treadway was a manic nut. If he'd been packing heat that bear wouldn't have eaten him.

Let's give credit where it is due. Treadway elevated "Leave No Trace" to a new level.

frieden
08-24-2006, 10:04
http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=230819&GT1=7702

What a putz. It looks like Sony is going to get some letters from me.....supporting someone like that. Grrrrr. It'll just cost Troy Gentry a few extra dollars, and he won't lose any sleep over it. I hope his karma follows him...and follows him....and follows him.....

I fully believe in the Right To Arm Bears!

Newb
08-24-2006, 13:03
Let's give credit where it is due. Treadway elevated "Leave No Trace" to a new level.

ahahha. Now THAT'S funny.

WILLIAM HAYES
08-24-2006, 22:23
The guy was an absolute idiot.It ws evident to me that he had some severe psychological hangups. I have had four bear encounters since I have been section hiking the AT they are more afraid of you. stand your ground don't run and give them the respect they deserve. I have never had a problem in any of the four encounters . It was a real thrill to see such beatiful creatures in the wild and to also realize that you are really not at the top of the food chain in the wilderness. There is nothing to fear if you exercise normal precautions, hang your food dont sleep with food in your tent etc

Hillbilly

TIDE-HSV
08-24-2006, 23:53
on the AT. Grizzlies are more "beautiful" than "beatiful," if you mean that in the sense of being full of grace...:)

Brrrb Oregon
08-26-2006, 16:48
It kind of seemed like "I've been a nickel prostitute for ten years, and the johns don't scare me." Well, it only takes one.

Keeping in mind that killing you might well mean a death-sentence for the bear, I can't see anyone who really loves and respects the animals doing what this guy did. He was either thinking only of himself or not thinking at all.

As for his assistant, she was a grown-up, too. If she'd been a man, I doubt anyone would have thought to blame the assistant's death on the leader, at least not after the first season. Her boss didn't ask her to do anything he wasn't foolish enough to do himself.

Hey, and no bad-mouthing the name of Fred Rogers, rest his soul. He was a truly wise and gentle soul, nothing like this guy.