How did isolation affect you?

[superfly-SY]

While I continue to gather stories for my writing project, I have come across some interesting concepts. One is how differently being isolated from the "real world" changes or affects people. I am also considering how "civilization addiction" (I made this term up, not sure if it is a thing or not) causes anxiety, or even fear in many people unfamiliar with the natural world.

For myself being isolated was cathartic, and allowed all the crap I was dealing with to get dealt with over time. As you all know, 2200 miles of walking provides ample opportunity for inner reflection. The trappings of society and convenience certainly encourage us to become dependent upon such things that are a matter of life and death, electricity, phones, grocery store on demand, permanent residence, ease of transportation and assistance 24/7 for anything we need or want. All that changes after a few weeks, or even days on the trail as we adjust our sense of need and want.

I felt much more at peace in the woods, and still do. Going very long without a hike is tough on the spirit and I get restless and stressed. Yet as I drive north on the interstate to the Whites of NH and I get that first glimpse of Franconia Notch and Mt. Lafayette it all melts away.

How did the isolation affect you? and do you have any anecdotes of someone you may have taken hiking that experienced fear or anxiety about being in the woods?

Have a great day!

sy

[Lone Wolf]

isolation on the AT? i never felt isolated out there

[Dogwood]

electricity, phones, grocery store on demand, permanent residence, ease of transportation and assistance. Are these truly a matter of life and death? I was assuming it was O2, love, shelter from the elements/"safety", water, food, sex, sleep, self awareness, and not getting into a motor vehicle with my sis at the wheel, late again for an appointment.

I wonder if civilization addiction is the antithesis of Nature Deficit Disorder?

I never am truly isolated in Nature even if there's no indication of humanity. Why? I do not hold the worldview the human animal is separate/disconnected from and above the rest of the environment. It is a worldview behind the basis for so much destruction and self serving interests outside of consideration of a larger whole. It's based on perceived separation and superiority. It's profoundly interwoven in U.S. German, Russian, and modern Chinese culture, as a few examples. It's significantly important to positive change understanding the role core beliefs have in making decisions. We most often dont know the extent of our beliefs and the role they play in daily assumptions of how the Universe operates and exists.

On a LD hike or similar we get out of norms. I liken it to sobering up like any addict, coming out of being lost in the fog, we may not have known we were immersed. And, YES, in a broader sense we can become addicts to cultural norms; civilization becomes a "drug." Kind of redefines a War on Drugs approach when we start perceiving cultural norms addictions as drug addictions, hey?

I try to live a LIFE as Mark Twain said:

“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one’s lifetime.” – Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad


What Twain was saying is get out of our norms, out of our comfort zones. As Snarky Nomad mused, " sadly, the people who make awful excuses (https://snarkynomad.com/if-you-make-these-excuses-you-need-to-travel-solo/) are the ones who need to travel the most." Travel = getting out of norms.



And, LD hiking can become a new norm too if we dont embrace a wide diversity and unfamiliarity of approaches and experiences - cookie cutter hikes.


Here's your answer: I'm less prejudiced, bigoted, rigid, afraid, racist, discriminatory, sexist, narrow minded, anti and problem oriented, and more open minded to discovery and exploration, accepting, tolerant, forbearing, patient, loving, joyful, adaptable, adventurous, understanding, and pro and solution oriented because I'm willing to place myself out side of norms. And, it's not a me thing. Anyone(s) can have it! Throw off the bowlines. Take the noose off from around the neck.

Those brief perceptions of isolation where we feel disconnected from the safety of the being tied to the pier results in the possibility of GREATER and more profound connections to a larger whole - broadened horizons figuratively and literally.

[MuddyWaters]

Most ive gone without seeing another person has been 6 days....and that wasnt the AT. I think 2-3 days or so was maximum on AT. And thats cause a spell of bad weather stacks less hardy people up in towns.

Ive never felt isolated, and in last 5 yrs the opportunities for solitude have been slashed on popular trails everywhere. Thanks facebook. Most people are in town every few days as well.

Got to hike in offseason (winter) to not run into many people today.

[Dogwood]

Superfly-SY isn't merely referring to physical isolation from humans but being somewhat isolated from civilization and it's societal and cultural norms. It's the basic definition of civilization. He specifically mentioned "civilization addiction." Civilization can be defined as the comforts and conveniences of modern life.

Before professing never feeling isolated consider asking why? Did your hike have you routinely gravitating towards human gathering areas like AT shelters, CG's, going back home to the familiarity of family and friends and home 1900 miles into a 2200 mile thru hike, going into town, hostel bunk or motel room, crossing a road with traffic, hitchhiking getting a ride in motor vehicle, wayside milkshakes, Smartfart or cell ph use, familiarity of regular logisticalconsdierations(resupply pts, H2O, and regularly spaced apart man made structures(AT lean-to's) for example), and other AT conveniences and infrastructure comforts? That's gravitating towards civilization which Superfly-SY is also referring. Could you not pull yourself away? Maybe that's an indication of "civilization addiction?" It is a good question too!

[MuddyWaters]

Everything is about civilization.
The trail......is a product of civilization
Shelters are a product of civilization
The gear you use
The food you eat
Its all civilization

Your in town every couple days to resupply, eat, shower

You arent Jeremiah Johnson. But one can pretend i suppose.

[Starchild]

I have experienced a long period of isolation in my life, but the AT thru was not that, in fact the AT thru is quite the opposite, to me it is more living and more life then life off trail is. It is a social trail, it is connections with others, forming trail families, the trail removed barriers that are common off trail and a poor college student can talk on equal terms to a powerful CEO. Much more personal info is discusses that is usually taboo in regular society such as the condition of one's feet. And advice and help is freely shared, given and received (one's willingness to accept help, which is often denied in off trail society).

[Dogwood]

And some gravitate towards civilization more than others - civilization addiction.

Not all hikes are defined by highly maintained heavily used single track, shelters every nine miles, frequent paved road crossings, frequent resupply opps, heavily relied upon kits,...Nor, even modern grocery, convenience store or gas station food. Some still forage for or "grow" food along the way. We most often don't want to readily throw off the bowlines, as Twain said. And, if we do we want it to be in a big worthy Carnival Cruise Lines ship with comforts and amenities or most often within sight of land. Few are sailors, explorers or adventurers into the unknown. Not all hike the AT in the same manner with as heavy a reliance on civilization.

[superfly-SY]

For clarity sake, when I speak of isolation I am not referring to the act of being completely alone or hermit like. As thru-hikers,m the very nature of what we have done or are doing is an act of self isolation from the greater society. The essentials of
"life" in a modern society include all the things I mention in my original post. The overwhelming majority of "modern" civilized humans cannot fathom a life without running water, electricity, wi-fi etc. The hiking community is a parallel, and often misunderstood, universe of existence to the "real world." It may be much different to hikers today than it was even ten years ago. Todays hikers are rarely without smart phones, wifi, data, hell you can resupply your entire hike with Amazon prime. So the sense of isolation may be a thing of the past, as others may have experienced it. But, being on the trail is indeed separating oneself from the daily grind of the mundane; and a removal from the stress and anxiety that society can encumber us. on the other hand, those who have never experienced the "wilderness" often see it as a thing to be feared or is a cause of great anxiety. I was speaking to a camp counselor in CT, that was a reform school of a sort for inner city kids. He told me that they regularly had kids suffering panic attacks when they were told about going into the woods to hike/camp. We can be surrounded by people, yet feel completely alone. On my hike I had to seek out solitude at times when I needed to just be away from others entirely. I must be more difficult to do that today.

So I think of the isolation as being removed from the larger entity of society and its immediacy (instant gratification) of need/want. I remember the first time I saw the news on TV after I set out in 1999, at the diner at Mtn. Mama's. It was the Columbine massacre front and center. It was just such a contradiction to life on the trail, I couldn't get back on it fast enough. I wanted to be isolated from everything that was out there. It was a very different sense of belonging and security, and probably vulnerability I guess, than I had before. It's just something I am curious about. please feel free to reply via email if you would rather not post a public message. many thanks!

[superfly-SY]

Some would call us deviants due to the contradictory nature of trail communities and the different social nature of the AT.
Do you see this "openness" as a manifestation of hikers being isolated from the "regular society"?
We are often less likely to be harshly judged by others, in my own opinion, on the trail. and I'm wondering how that separation influences
our thoughts, ideas, beliefs, attitudes, behaviors, and does it allow or encourage our "true self" to show itself more freely? Society is so set on telling us what we are supposed to be, do , look like, etc. Does the isolation of the trail, and I know it sounds like a contradiction since it is in the middle of a huge densely populated part of the country, even by that small distance change us?

[MuddyWaters]

I dont overly romanticize it.
Its a decision by most to not shave or cut hair, etc. They are in town weekly, if not more frequent.
They have time.....to buy disposeable razor...they choose hangout or party with other grungy individuals.

I know many people that go camping....for much longer durations than hikers are between towns. They dont go claiming to be "changed". My wifes family and friends camped for weeks at a time growing up. Moms and kids camped, dads worked and came to join them on weekends.

What changes people....depending on others, and strangers. Proceeding with only loose plan and trusting it to work out. Meeting and talking to all manner of people you might never talk to off the trail....simply because they are only other people around.

You got running water...streams or piped springs. You got electric lighting headlamps. Little gas stoves. Most people stay in little houses in the woods as well.

[Dogwood]

The OP referenced thru hiking the AT. It seems fair to assume he was asking in that context. Some say they aren't changed after thru hiking the AT. VASTLY more folks say the AT thru hiking experience did change them. He's asking how in respect to being isolated. He's defined what he meant by that. If you did an AT thru and haven't changed that's fine too but he's asking if it did "how?"

[Puddlefish]

I have experienced a long period of isolation in my life, but the AT thru was not that, in fact the AT thru is quite the opposite, to me it is more living and more life then life off trail is. It is a social trail, it is connections with others, forming trail families, the trail removed barriers that are common off trail and a poor college student can talk on equal terms to a powerful CEO. Much more personal info is discusses that is usually taboo in regular society such as the condition of one's feet. And advice and help is freely shared, given and received (one's willingness to accept help, which is often denied in off trail society).

Very much this. I feel far more isolated in my own town. I'm not original to the town, so I didn't grow up with the townies. The rest of the town are very rich people who are off by themselves doing expensive things.

[Dogwood]

That's what you get when you live in a 1974 single wide with sheets on the window in a town where the median home value is $250K. :D ;)

[Puddlefish]

That's what you get when you live in a 1974 single wide with sheets on the window in a town where the median home value is $250K. :D ;)

The median price of homes currently listed in XXXXX is $395,000. I rent a one bedroom cabin, on the most expensive street in town, I'm pretty much invisible here.

[Dogwood]

Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wildness is a necessity; and that mountain parks and reservations are useful not only as fountains of timber and irrigating rivers, but as fountains of life.
- Our National Parks (https://vault.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/writings/our_national_parks/), (1901), chapter 1 (https://vault.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/writings/our_national_parks/chapter_1.aspx), page 1.

Consider Muir was referring to masses of over civilized people more than 115 yrs ago. Asa nation are we more or less over civilized as a Nation 115 yrs later?

[Dogwood]

The median price of homes currently listed in XXXXX is $395,000. I rent a one bedroom cabin, on the most expensive street in town, I'm pretty much invisible here.

Ohh, you are far from invisible. You don't blend. You stand out as an oddity, an island in the stream. Standing out you may become isolated as you present unfamiliarity an oddity from the norms which people often find fearful.

[KnightErrant]

I found my hike, not exactly isolating, but maybe insular? I make it a habit to uproot my life and move every year or two, often to a new continent, but I generally stay well-connected to family and close friends through modern technology. Even thousands of miles away from familiar faces, I don't typically feel isolated.

But on my thru-hike, not only was communication limited by battery life and reception, but also I was very ill my last two months on trail and it left no scrap of physical or mental energy to look outside of my little bubble: me, the woods, and the hikers in my immediate vicinity. On bad days, I hiked, got to a campsite, and collapsed. And on good days, I tried to stay present in the moment, with the things and people that I loved on the trail. So in both cases, civilization and my "real life" stayed locked up at the very back of my mind.

So that was the isolation of the trail for me. I didn't feel that the woods were isolating me from modern conveniences. Instead, it was the immediacy of the experience that isolated me from everything else purely by consuming all my energy and attention, leaving nothing left to think about the world that existed outside my tiny point on a line from Georgia to Maine.

[Dogwood]

I thought insular and isolated are synonymous. :p

[Traillium]

I interpreted “insular” as meaning “within oneself”, i.e., how I prefer to be. “Isolated” connotes “away from others”, and I saw that as being more of an external action, something that I may not have much control over.

When I hike, I often spend a lot of time in internal conversation with myself. I am insular. I am focused inwards.

When I’m out on the trail, at other times I feel isolated and without the opportunity to reach out to others. I feel isolated — yet I wish to be connected with others.


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[Bucketfoot]

Isolation. What isolation ?

[OwenM]

Isolation from "modern life" and solitude are two very different things. The former doesn't mean much without the latter, at least in my case.

[RangerZ]

I never felt isolated on the trail. There are always people around, you might not see anybody until the afternoon or night but they’re about. I’m not the most introspective guy but, as others have said, you have a lot of time with yourself thinking.

One of the reasons I was on the trail was to do something different from what I had been doing for 40 odd ( some odder than others ) years. I wasn’t sitting in my office surrounded by employees, no phone calls/email/meetings/problems to address, etc.

The woods are healing. The trail did change me to some extent, I’m still not the “greenest” guy ( there are engineering solutions to some of the world’s problems ) but I’m more thoughtful of our impacts. I’m volunteering at some places that I might not have before the trail.

I found the time on the trail to be the most unresponsible ( not irresponsible ) time that I’d had in years. No troops, employees, etc just me and my pack ( and Stick ). I had enough contact with ( and support from ) my family that I wasn’t lonely for them.


Traillium, good to see you again.

[Traillium]

I found the time on the trail to be the most unresponsible ( not irresponsible ) time that I’d had in years. No troops, employees, etc just me and my pack ( and Stick ). I had enough contact with ( and support from ) my family that I wasn’t lonely for them.

I really like this idea of being ‘unresponsible’ on the trail, RangerZ. Responsible for myself and my decisions and actions; responsible to whomever I’m hiking with; and responsible to my wife and family. Happy and relaxed and open.


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[Lone Wolf]

you'll never know isolation or solitude if you got a smart phone thingy at your finger tips

[Dogwood]

you'll never know isolation or solitude if you got a smart phone thingy at your finger tips


It's nice to see someone read and considered the OP's clarifying statements.

[greenpete]

I'm not a thru hiker, but a section hiker. My longest hike at one stretch was 90 miles. I don't have much to add to this topic that Dogwood and others have already offered, except: being isolated from society (people) and civilization (people plus modern conveniences) has a healing affect. I go into the woods less to find something than to get away from something else. With all our creature comforts, and 24-7 ability to "connect," we're becoming more stressed, impatient, short-tempered, narrow-minded, superficial, and just plain predictable and boring. It's a disorder (Nature Deficit Disorder) that most people aren't even aware has afflicted them...until they get a"panic attack" by thinking about the woods. I can't count how many times, when I tell people I'm hiking in the mountains, alone, they ask "Aren't you afraid of BEARS?" Or "You mean you're hiking ALONE?" "Aren't you AFRAID?"

No, I'm more afraid of turning into an eggplant then getting permanently sucked into an iPhone No-Man's Land.

[Deadeye]

I just read the "Food Explorer", and one of the people the book talks about is a man name Meyer (the namesake of the Meyer lemon). He spent several years wandering across Asia in the early 1900's - a lone European with limited abilities to communicate. He loved it for a while, but eventually the depression from lack of contact with humans that he could communicate with and relate to drove him to suicide.

Not an issue on today's hiking trails!

[shelb]

Isolation is a feeling... not the actual experience.

For example, I felt isolated and alone with my 1st husband. Once I divorced him, I moved beyond that feeling - even though I wasn't with anyone. Actually, I remember feeling more alone with him than when I was single.

On the A.T., isolation is relative in the same manner... being away from people can bring peace - a sense of mindfulness. (I thought the new mindfulness movement was "hoki" until I realized that is what I have been doing on the A.T. for all these years - relaxing... getting more in tune with myself.

Even though hiking alone on the A.T. is not isolation, spending evenings alone might be. Personally, I enjoy the camaraderie of meeting up with people in the evening and sharing experiences. I often think it is like Chris McCandless's last journal entry (from Into the Wild): Happiness is only real when shared.

[Slumgum]

In my case, I found the isolation of the trail to be exhilarating and freeing. "Civilization" has a way of pulling me in directions I would rather not take. I feel like any plans I make are constantly altered, redirected or even halted by external influences. I feel bombarded and overwhelmed at times.
The trail has a way of causing all of that to fall away. It is freeing. I can maintain focus without outside interference. It brings heightened social interaction. I feel like there are no "strangers" on the trail. We are all stripped of class and other social distinctions imposed back in civilization. There are fewer judgements. I tend to be an introvert, but find I more readily engage with people on the trail than in my regular life. I savor that lengthy opportunity to be alone with my thoughts. Isolation is perhaps one of the main reasons I enjoy hiking.

[Dogwood]

Another way the Op's question might be perceived is a detoxification from the familiar.

[Traveler]

To the OP - Isolation can infer distress and/or being removed or without relation to other people or things in the environment and may not be an appropriate term to use for what you experienced. Given the proximity of roads, towns, and residential neighborhoods along the AT there are very few places where one cannot hear a lawn mower, motorcycles, trucks, chainsaws, or barking dogs. Isolation by definition would be difficult for any significant period of time. Solitude however, would be accessible from the second step.

I typically find there is a turning point somewhere after trailhead departure where I start to feel more connected to the environment I am in and less connected with the "civilized" world. I don't think I have ever felt isolated on any trail, though I have felt solitude which is a welcome visitor that tends to arrive at points where reflection results, providing perspective and more than a few epiphanies, along with a capacity to filter out the sounds of civilization (or others on the trail) that would otherwise be distracting. Solitude is one of the foundational reasons I enjoy the activity and I suspect many of us feel similarly though may express it differently.

Solitude is a wondrous thing that once the more positive aspects of it are experienced is sought out at every opportunity.

[rickb]

How did the isolation affect you? and do you have any anecdotes of someone you may have taken hiking that experienced fear or anxiety about being in the woods?


I feel most relaxed when camping in an isolated spot — that is to say a spot where it is highly unlikely that anyone else will know I am there.

I sincerely believe that most hikers — whether newbies or even people with experience up to that of a thru hiker — think differently about that.

In my limitted experience taking others out overnight, I have found most of them to feel FAR more comfortable camping at an established site — especially one with a bunch of other campers about like you and I are familiar with along the AT in the Whites — than even the most appropriate and beautiful location that is well off trail and very private.

In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that many (most) backcountry campers’ anxiety is so high camping in isolation (even when there is zero chance of getting lost, like when you hike up a stream) that they simply would not do it by themselves, or without a confident and experienced companion to lift the burden

I’ll bet I feel you took a poll of thru hikers many would admit this — at least for a portion of thier hikes and for some, all of it.

Just my opinion.

[Grampie]

If you are attempting a thru-hike and you have a problem with spending time with the solitude of the woods, you might want to do something else. From the start you will soon realize that you will be spending a lot of time alone. You have to be able to deal with this "alone experience."
Your cell phone won't do it. You may find others to talk to, but you will spend much time alone.
It's a good time to turn to your inner self. Retrace your life. Live it over, in your mind. Just this can take up hour after hour of your time. Think about the wonders of nature. If God is alive in your life, think of him and what he does. Most of all think of all you have to be grateful for.
Leave all the daily burdens of "off trail" living at home and you will have a more enjoyable experience.

[Dogwood]

If you are attempting a thru-hike and you have a problem with spending time with the solitude of the woods, you might want to do something else.

It's the same principle hiking within the bubble desiring solitude. It can be accomplished if we are willing to do things differently than the herd.

Sound reflective post Grampie.

[rickb]

Keeping your own company but knowing there will always be someone coming up the Trail behind you later in the day (or within the hour), or sleeping by yourself at a tent platform in the the full knowledge that other campers are a stone’s throw away, can be called solitude.

But its not really.

That kind of solitude can be found on the D Train.

[TexasBob]

I have re-read the OP's post several times and I think there is a difference between what he is calling isolation and being alone. Isolation from the distractions and comforts of every day life (electronic communications, running water, transportation, bathrooms, refrigerators, central heat and air conditioning, etc.) allows you concentrate your thoughts on the here and now allowing you to be more "in the moment". Life narrows down to you, your immediate surroundings and the conditions you encounter. I believe that is what he means by isolation. For me that generates a sense of solitude even if I encounter other hikers along the way.

[rickb]

I have re-read the OP's post several times and I think there is a difference between what he is calling isolation and being alone. Isolation from the distractions and comforts of every day life (electronic communications, running water, transportation, bathrooms, refrigerators, central heat and air conditioning, etc.) allows you concentrate your thoughts on the here and now allowing you to be more "in the moment". Life narrows down to you, your immediate surroundings and the conditions you encounter. I believe that is what he means by isolation. For me that generates a sense of solitude even if I encounter other hikers along the way.

You could be spot on — and Grampie’s post resonated as well — but the OP also asked about fear and anxiety out on the woods.

No doubt there is are as many causes for that as there are people.

[KirkMcquest]

I hiked the AT back in 07, and many other long distance hikes before and after. I think people are drawn to these types of activities precisely BECAUSE they feel that something is amiss in their modern lifestyle. After the AT and other hikes I moved to Alaska and lived in a cabin about 50 miles from the nearest town. Feeling that it was "too" isolated, I eventually made my way partly back to society and bought a farm in upstate NY. I've been here for 9 years and plan on staying. So, in answer to the question..the AT and other thru-hikes were PART of a process. The attempt to strip life down to the raw basics to see first-hand what is needed and what isnt. The isolation and the time "away" just confirmed all my previous suspicions....that I am capable of being entirely happy by myself with just the basics of life.

[superfly-SY]

I never felt isolated on the trail. There are always people around, you might not see anybody until the afternoon or night but they’re about. I’m not the most introspective guy but, as others have said, you have a lot of time with yourself thinking.

One of the reasons I was on the trail was to do something different from what I had been doing for 40 odd ( some odder than others ) years. I wasn’t sitting in my office surrounded by employees, no phone calls/email/meetings/problems to address, etc.

The woods are healing. The trail did change me to some extent, I’m still not the “greenest” guy ( there are engineering solutions to some of the world’s problems ) but I’m more thoughtful of our impacts. I’m volunteering at some places that I might not have before the trail.

I found the time on the trail to be the most unresponsible ( not irresponsible ) time that I’d had in years. No troops, employees, etc just me and my pack ( and Stick ). I had enough contact with ( and support from ) my family that I wasn’t lonely for them.


Traillium, good to see you again.

You were at Hawk Mtn in 1973? I was there 1986-1988. Spent 84-86 with 3/75 at Benning.

[KnightErrant]

I interpreted “insular” as meaning “within oneself”, i.e., how I prefer to be. “Isolated” connotes “away from others”, and I saw that as being more of an external action, something that I may not have much control over.
When I hike, I often spend a lot of time in internal conversation with myself. I am insular. I am focused inwards.
When I’m out on the trail, at other times I feel isolated and without the opportunity to reach out to others. I feel isolated — yet I wish to be connected with others.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes! This is what I meant. I didn't feel like civilization was keeping me out. I just felt like the hike was keeping me in. A small distinction, perhaps, but it seemed significant to me.


As for the OP's point about the woods causing anxiety, I am not from an outdoorsy family. On my first few overnights on the AT in 2016, I was solo, with new unfamiliar gear, and it was my first time sleeping outdoors. I planned those hikes near my hometown in VA to coincide with thru season, so I was never alone at a campsite, and I found I wasn't nervous at all, despite all the people who called me crazy for doing it.

My first nights actually camping alone were last year, on my shakedown hikes in VA in late March/early April before flying down to Georgia for my thru. A couple nights there were some early Nobos, but I spent three nights completely by myself. The first was hard. I was paranoid about bears or serial killers or whatever, and I was cold, which only served to keep me awake longer to experience more of the paranoia. But eventually morning came, and I was totally safe and fine, and it was a bit like flying alone for the first time. Intimidating in theory, until you realize it's exactly the same as doing it with company except better, because you can do exactly what you want, when you want. I enjoyed the next couple nights alone, and I thought that I would stealth camp alone a lot on my thru-hike whenever the bubble felt too crowded. But, you know what they say: best laid schemes of mice and men and all that. I ended up meeting the now-boyfriend in the very first week, so I think I only solo stealth camped once in the whole thru-hike. No regrets though, haha!

But I feel very comfortable in the woods now, and I wouldn't hesitate to section hike outside of "the season" again, knowing that I do enjoy the solitude just as much as I enjoy hiking with others. People have a lot of reasons to go backpacking, but mine don't really include socialization or isolation. I don't mind people or a lack of people. If I'm in the woods, physically wearing myself out, seeing beautiful things, existing in the elements, and taking the time to be quiet and reflective, I'm getting what I came for. Doesn't matter if I'm alone at the campsite or one hiker among twenty.

[RangerZ]

You were at Hawk Mtn in 1973? I was there 1986-1988. Spent 84-86 with 3/75 at Benning.

I was in class 9-76. Looking at my notes, we ran a recon to Hawk Mountain shelter one night. I was out on security.

I’m an engineer so I’m only a tab bearer; believe me, I’d like to have worn a scroll. I think that there is now an engineer captain on the regimental staff.

I made a pilgrimage to Camp Merrill before I started my hike last year. It was between cycles and I surprised the SDNCO when I walked into HQ and asked if I could tour the museum.

RLTW

44980

[Greenlight]

I have a different perspective, which sort of lines up with yours. Civilization isn't bad, it is good when it is done right. Problem is, we don't do it right most of the time. I digress on that point to continue with this... You are right, man is not an outsider when he is in nature, he is truly home. The built environment is an extension of the natural environment. The problem is that it is now possible to almost completely separate oneself from nature and believe that it is normal or even good. It isn't. We suffer profoundly when we separate ourselves from nature (aka nature deficit disorder).

When I'm "in the woods" I feel more at home than I do when I'm at "home" and that is partly because I'm in the environment which produced our race, with it's increased level of negative ions, tree phytoncides, pinenes and other turpenes, natural light, cleaner air, etc. Even if one didn't want to, those things would contribute to a profuoundly higher level of feelings of well-being. A shelter doesn't equate one to one with civilization in my estimation. It is a structure normally built with natural materials by other humans who realize that it is a good thing to have adequate shelter (a basic human need) every few miles out in the boonies. Manfred Max-Neef did a good job pegging the truly essential human needs a few decades ago. He trumped (don't anyone get triggered) Maslow in that regard, because he focused not only on needs, but broke them down into categories of being, having, and doing, and also identified human needs satisfiers and violaters. A lot of what modern "society" offers is really violating our human needs.

Isolation is a tricky term. How broadly or narrowly should one define it? It has a negative connotation at this point in time. But I know what you're getting at. Maybe you mean solitude. Most people who gravitate to trails are looking for something that resembles solitude more than isolation, and I can get solitude in the woods with a few others who are out there seeking the same things. Who suffered through the ascent with me to enjoy the views at the summit. It's still solitude to me because I'm with kindred souls. Walking itself reduces rumination and increases creativity and problem solving, and walking in nature elevates that to an n'th degree.

"In town" we do get wrapped up in pursuit of more than needs. We are susceptible to satisfying a lot of wants. That isn't bad in moderation, but we take it too far.I think that a long hike or other nature immersion tamps those things down and shows us what is truly needful. I can carry everything I need for my survival and relative comfort in a pack that weighs less than 35 pounds, including several days worth of food. If I was a better forager and hunter, I could extend that without going back into the built environment.

Solitude (isolation) has a profound effect on me. While there are some who have phobias about being out in nature, for a given amount of time, there are historically explainable reasons for that, too. Back in the day, to go out very far into nature meant you were entering the domain of large predators, and if you didn't know how to deal with that, there may not even have been a carcass to find. My forebear Christly Garlits was one of the guys you used to call in Western Maryland if you needed a mountain lion or bear tracked and killed. On paper he was a farmer, but he spent most of his time in the woods, and had plenty of hearth fire stories to tell about his exploits tracking and taking vengeance on the large critters that took a child or some livestock. Nowdays most of the large predators are few and far between and we can get out and enjoy our trails without too much thought given to being tracked and eaten.

I have friends who refuse to leave their comfortable surroundings, including their spas and manicurists, and the thought of a mosquito makes them ill, but I don't spend too much time with them. I'd rather be out there hiking, even if I do cross paths with the occasional black bear. If I ever ran across a catamount or grizzly, I may well leave a couple of Hershey kisses in my boxers, but the chances of that happening in my neck of the woods are astronomically low.


While I continue to gather stories for my writing project, I have come across some interesting concepts. One is how differently being isolated from the "real world" changes or affects people. I am also considering how "civilization addiction" (I made this term up, not sure if it is a thing or not) causes anxiety, or even fear in many people unfamiliar with the natural world.

For myself being isolated was cathartic, and allowed all the crap I was dealing with to get dealt with over time. As you all know, 2200 miles of walking provides ample opportunity for inner reflection. The trappings of society and convenience certainly encourage us to become dependent upon such things that are a matter of life and death, electricity, phones, grocery store on demand, permanent residence, ease of transportation and assistance 24/7 for anything we need or want. All that changes after a few weeks, or even days on the trail as we adjust our sense of need and want.

I felt much more at peace in the woods, and still do. Going very long without a hike is tough on the spirit and I get restless and stressed. Yet as I drive north on the interstate to the Whites of NH and I get that first glimpse of Franconia Notch and Mt. Lafayette it all melts away.

How did the isolation affect you? and do you have any anecdotes of someone you may have taken hiking that experienced fear or anxiety about being in the woods?

Have a great day!

sy

[evyck da fleet]

I can’t say I felt isolated on the AT. I had lots of solitude during the day by design but camping near water source/shelters meant there were always people around. Then you add in day and weekend hikers, hikers who keep you connected by playing music or talking on their phones at shelters or as you pass them. And when I head into town there’s often a ride, a shower, a television on at a restaurant. Plus the internet for bill paying and checking in at home. It really is a series of section hikes.

if someone did feel isolated and anxious it would be easy enough to join a trail family and camp at shelters.

[MuddyWaters]

As you all know, 2200 miles of walking provides ample opportunity for inner reflection. The trappings of society and convenience certainly encourage us to become dependent upon such things that are a matter of life and death, electricity, phones, grocery store on demand, permanent residence, ease of transportation and assistance 24/7 for anything we need or want. All that changes after a few weeks, or even days on the trail as we adjust our sense of need and want.

Your describing being on vacation , which is possible for a short period ONLY because of those things.


Yeah, we would all like to be on vacation.

Our forefathers didnt see it as romantically. They had to actually live in it, scrape an existence out of it. Surviving weather, wild beasts, hostile people, their own lawless people, famines, droughts, etc. Its called civilization....it is 100% necessary for humans to survive...we have never been good at surviving alone except for short periods. We are woefully unequipped for our natural world, relying on our oversized brain , shared communication, and teamwork to survive. That we can survive at all for limited time..... is because others experiences has been distilled into knowledge, recorded, and distributed to us.

What you like, is that trail life is simple. Eat, sleep, walk. Dont need to worry about anything else temporarily. ...while on vacation. Vacation.


While you may eschew the trappings of civilization, you are 100% a product of it and 100% dependent on it to survive. Even the trail is a construct of civilization. Try walking thru mountains without one.

[KnightErrant]

^ This reminds me of the movie Midnight in Paris. Owen Wilson is a writer who dreams of life in the 1920s, which he imagines as an artistic golden age. He thinks modern life is too fast-paced, too superficial, etc. While visiting Paris, he is magically (drunkenly?) transported back in time to the 20s and meets many of his idols from literature and art and falls in love with a woman... only to realize that she is nostalgic for the 1880's, and she believes that life in the 1920s is too fast-paced and superficial. At one point they go back in time even farther and discover that those people are nostalgic for even earlier eras. Owen Wilson concludes that "real life" is always complicated and busy and messy, even in what we imagine were "simpler times", because humans are complicated and busy and messy.

I always think of this movie when I hear people yearning for "the good old days" in whatever context, but I hadn't thought of it related to backpacking. It's true though. And I think that's why a lot of thru-hikers quit when they are physically and financially capable of finishing. The "vacation" part wears off, and it starts to feel like a job, and it starts to feel like "real life."

I've experienced the same when moving overseas. Living in Madrid or Casablanca or Singapore sounds magical, but unless you're rich enough for self-indulgent Eat Pray Love-style travel, you still have to work. And after a few months, the daily grind in Europe or Africa or Asia can feel remarkably similar to the daily grind at home. (But different and exciting enough that I still love it! And for me, the same goes for hiking.)

[Dogwood]

^ This reminds me of the movie Midnight in Paris. Owen Wilson is a writer who dreams of life in the 1920s, which he imagines as an artistic golden age. He thinks modern life is too fast-paced, too superficial, etc. While visiting Paris, he is magically (drunkenly?) transported back in time to the 20s and meets many of his idols from literature and art and falls in love with a woman... only to realize that she is nostalgic for the 1880's, and she believes that life in the 1920s is too fast-paced and superficial. At one point they go back in time even farther and discover that those people are nostalgic for even earlier eras. Owen Wilson concludes that "real life" is always complicated and busy and messy, even in what we imagine were "simpler times", because humans are complicated and busy and messy.

I always think of this movie when I hear people yearning for "the good old days" in whatever context, but I hadn't thought of it related to backpacking. It's true though. And I think that's why a lot of thru-hikers quit when they are physically and financially capable of finishing. The "vacation" part wears off, and it starts to feel like a job, and it starts to feel like "real life."

I've experienced the same when moving overseas. Living in Madrid or Casablanca or Singapore sounds magical, but unless you're rich enough for self-indulgent Eat Pray Love-style travel, you still have to work. And after a few months, the daily grind in Europe or Africa or Asia can feel remarkably similar to the daily grind at home. (But different and exciting enough that I still love it! And for me, the same goes for hiking.)

I tried communicating your thoughts to my born and bred Nar Jarwzee parental units assuming moving to Santa Barbara area(Solvang) was Eden on Earth because they stayed there for a wk on a vacation. :rolleyes:

[Dogwood]

...While you may eschew the trappings of civilization, you are 100% a product of it and 100% dependent on it to survive.
As long as there's a Starbucks and egg white spinach and feta wrap available I'm good to go. :D



Even the trail is a construct of civilization.

Wait. Isn't the AT the exact 30" wide tread the Native American Indians traveled? :)


Try walking thru mountains without one.

I have, many times. It's freeing yet often a demanding situation in some ways. Other ways it's less demanding. Now, if I can only find that misplaced foldable Ti spork, Mini Bic and DCF tarp. :D

[superfly-SY]

I got snowed in on Hawk Mtn for five days. Storm was so bad even the helo's couldn't come get me.Was left to keep the CP up while every one else went in for Thanksgiving. Went through about 1/2 ton of pyro entertaining myself.

[superfly-SY]

I have a different perspective, which sort of lines up with yours. Civilization isn't bad, it is good when it is done right. Problem is, we don't do it right most of the time. I digress on that point to continue with this... You are right, man is not an outsider when he is in nature, he is truly home. The built environment is an extension of the natural environment. The problem is that it is now possible to almost completely separate oneself from nature and believe that it is normal or even good. It isn't. We suffer profoundly when we separate ourselves from nature (aka nature deficit disorder).

When I'm "in the woods" I feel more at home than I do when I'm at "home" and that is partly because I'm in the environment which produced our race, with it's increased level of negative ions, tree phytoncides, pinenes and other turpenes, natural light, cleaner air, etc. Even if one didn't want to, those things would contribute to a profuoundly higher level of feelings of well-being. A shelter doesn't equate one to one with civilization in my estimation. It is a structure normally built with natural materials by other humans who realize that it is a good thing to have adequate shelter (a basic human need) every few miles out in the boonies. Manfred Max-Neef did a good job pegging the truly essential human needs a few decades ago. He trumped (don't anyone get triggered) Maslow in that regard, because he focused not only on needs, but broke them down into categories of being, having, and doing, and also identified human needs satisfiers and violaters. A lot of what modern "society" offers is really violating our human needs.

Isolation is a tricky term. How broadly or narrowly should one define it? It has a negative connotation at this point in time. But I know what you're getting at. Maybe you mean solitude. Most people who gravitate to trails are looking for something that resembles solitude more than isolation, and I can get solitude in the woods with a few others who are out there seeking the same things. Who suffered through the ascent with me to enjoy the views at the summit. It's still solitude to me because I'm with kindred souls. Walking itself reduces rumination and increases creativity and problem solving, and walking in nature elevates that to an n'th degree.

"In town" we do get wrapped up in pursuit of more than needs. We are susceptible to satisfying a lot of wants. That isn't bad in moderation, but we take it too far.I think that a long hike or other nature immersion tamps those things down and shows us what is truly needful. I can carry everything I need for my survival and relative comfort in a pack that weighs less than 35 pounds, including several days worth of food. If I was a better forager and hunter, I could extend that without going back into the built environment.

Solitude (isolation) has a profound effect on me. While there are some who have phobias about being out in nature, for a given amount of time, there are historically explainable reasons for that, too. Back in the day, to go out very far into nature meant you were entering the domain of large predators, and if you didn't know how to deal with that, there may not even have been a carcass to find. My forebear Christly Garlits was one of the guys you used to call in Western Maryland if you needed a mountain lion or bear tracked and killed. On paper he was a farmer, but he spent most of his time in the woods, and had plenty of hearth fire stories to tell about his exploits tracking and taking vengeance on the large critters that took a child or some livestock. Nowdays most of the large predators are few and far between and we can get out and enjoy our trails without too much thought given to being tracked and eaten.

I have friends who refuse to leave their comfortable surroundings, including their spas and manicurists, and the thought of a mosquito makes them ill, but I don't spend too much time with them. I'd rather be out there hiking, even if I do cross paths with the occasional black bear. If I ever ran across a catamount or grizzly, I may well leave a couple of Hershey kisses in my boxers, but the chances of that happening in my neck of the woods are astronomically low.

I love this!

[superfly-SY]

I have not seen this movie, but it sounds fun. To be clear I am not suggesting we go back to a simpler time, but am looking at how disconnecting from the daily grind can be therapeutic. Another commenter called it a vacation. I think we go on vacation to do just that in most cases, I could be wrong. But immersing ourselves in trai life may be a different experience. Perhaps more like a retreat, in the purest sense of the concept.

[Dogwood]

He gets extra pts for mentioning nature deficit disorder, negative ions, tree phytoncides, pinene and other terpenes, natural light, cleaner air, Maslow and Manfred Max-Neef's essential human needs all in one post. :cool:

[greenmtnboy]

I always felt like I fit in, in natural surroundings. I was in Boy Scouts for years in my youth too. If you really want to get a reality check bring some of your entertainment electronics out into the great wilderness and see how plastic and fake they become to you.

I agree with a lot of what Thoreau said on his experience of nature; and we are probably in one of the most plastic and electronic dehumanizing environments imaginable.

[Thrifty Endurance]

While I continue to gather stories for my writing project, I have come across some interesting concepts. One is how differently being isolated from the "real world" changes or affects people. I am also considering how "civilization addiction" (I made this term up, not sure if it is a thing or not) causes anxiety, or even fear in many people unfamiliar with the natural world.

For myself being isolated was cathartic, and allowed all the crap I was dealing with to get dealt with over time. As you all know, 2200 miles of walking provides ample opportunity for inner reflection. The trappings of society and convenience certainly encourage us to become dependent upon such things that are a matter of life and death, electricity, phones, grocery store on demand, permanent residence, ease of transportation and assistance 24/7 for anything we need or want. All that changes after a few weeks, or even days on the trail as we adjust our sense of need and want.

I felt much more at peace in the woods, and still do. Going very long without a hike is tough on the spirit and I get restless and stressed. Yet as I drive north on the interstate to the Whites of NH and I get that first glimpse of Franconia Notch and Mt. Lafayette it all melts away.

How did the isolation affect you? and do you have any anecdotes of someone you may have taken hiking that experienced fear or anxiety about being in the woods?

Have a great day!

sy


Is your writing project going to be a book? That's cool. "Isolation?" I kind of like being by myself, so I never feel isolated. I am a future AT thru-hiker...never thought about doing something for that long. Most of my climbs last a day, sometimes three days, depending on the elevation. My longest hikes lasted almost three months and I SOBO sectioned 5x by myself...that's about 5,000 miles. My hiking partner wants to thru-hike the AT...a dream since his childhood. I still prefer to do the AT in sections, but a thru-hike is looking mighty tempting. Even when I thru-hike, I know I still want to be alone. When I was doing my sections, the first time I did spend more time in the towns just to check them out, and to see what sort of resources they offered. That's part of the "knowledge" I can give back to the hiker community. I do a LOT of recon. I saw a recent vid from a very popular vlogger who was surprised by the amount of rocks in PA. I was surprise by the statement...it's called "research" which I don't think some hikers do before they get on the trail. My "research" comprises of me physically going there to look at the situation to reading reports or picking up the phone and asking smart people what gives. My last two sections, I went right through, with just resupply points on route and showers wherever I could get them. When I was a kid growing up in Maine, I went into the woods everyday since we had no TV. I also read a lot too and would bring books into the woods and read under a tree. We also foraged for wild mushrooms. I am still an avid reader and read almost every subject including scientific, exploration, history, language, etc. I mostly connect on an individual basis. I write emails to a lot of authors, writers and subject experts. I also connect a lot to national parks and park ranger stations though phone calls. I am always asking tons of questions about this or that, plants, regulations, etc. I am also an introvert...not a bad thing...but I can't really follow a lot of campfire "chit chat."

[sbhikes]

Well, I'll bite, and I have experienced actual isolation. When I was 44 years old, I hiked the second half of the PCT a month ahead of the normal thru-hiking season and went days at a time without seeing another person. I didn't even see a thru-hiker until close to the end of Washington. I did it solo so I camped and hiked alone for 3 months on that one trip. I usually hike and camp completely alone on my various backpacking trips, anyway, but my hike of the second half of the PCT was the longest period of time I spent alone in the wilderness. Of course, every 4 or 5 days I'd stop in a town and resupply like any other hiker. I tended to stay at trail angel homes or stealth camp near town rather than get hotels. I did as much eating as I could, like any hiker, but even in town I was pretty alone.

I found that after a while I felt more at home in the wilderness than in a town. I felt more at home and safer and more relieved once I was about 5 miles away from town. 10 miles away and I felt safe. I didn't feel safe in town. That's where all the bad people are! They aren't out in the wilderness. There's nobody out in the wilderness.

I also had this weird sense that there's this other world over there that I don't belong to anymore. I belong to the world of trees and creeks. I'd peer at the other world of cars and roads and think how strange that world is! I don't belong there.

The water on the trail affected me deeply. Jonathon Ley described this feeling really well when he wrote that "nobody ever loved a faucet." Water was life. A clean spring or lake or creek was life. To see living things in the water did not make me think the water was dirty, it meant the water was alive. When I arrived at a mountain town near a lake and saw that people had lawns (fertilizers and pesticides), and roads around the lake (oil and other pollution), and that it all ran off into the lake, I felt horrified. How could anyone live their lives that way and not feel horrified by what they were doing to the water in the lake? I felt really uncomfortable about it. Water is life and city life makes people okay to murder the water without even knowing they're doing it.

I'm not usually a lonely person, but I did sometimes feel loneliness. I would sometimes talk to the birds on the trail. It bothered me that they would just yell out alarms at my presence or fly away. I wanted them to be my friends because I was lonely. I kept a journal. Thinking about what to write during the day and then writing it at night made me feel less lonely. I would go to town and re-write it all in a blog and that also helped me feel less lonely because my family would read it. When I wasn't thinking of stuff to write, I often had ear worms. Songs would get stuck in my head. Sometimes words would get stuck in my head. This would drive me crazy. I also started carrying a book with me. I rationed out an hour every night to read my book. I looked forward to it. These days I listen to audio books, old radio shows, podcasts or dreamy instrumental music.

When I did this hike, people were only just starting to use smart phones on the trail. I brought a flip-phone as an after thought. I was glad I had it, but often I would pretend that it didn't work in town so I didn't have to make any calls. I liked being alone.

One thing that surprised me was that I slept as well on the trail as I did at home, which is to say that some nights I slept great and others I had insomnia, just like in regular life. Even if I didn't sleep well I could still put in a full day's work on the trail, so it didn't really matter. Insomnia just makes the night really long. I slept a lot better in my tent than I did indoors. I stopped ever sleeping indoors after a while on the trail. Instead of hotels I'd stealth camp near town. Instead of inside a trail angel place I'd pitch my tent on the lawn or wherever. It was hard to adjust to sleeping indoors after the hike ended, too. Years later, it still bothers me that the window doesn't open over my side of the bed.

[IslandPete]

Isolation? I didn’t have a chance to find out. I brought my wife and dog along...

[Coffee]

The internal conversation you have with yourself is the normal state of solo long distance hiking, and you need to get along with yourself to make this work. That might sound weird, but it isn't really. Different people have different conversations internally. Some people hike to get past things that aren't going right in their "real lives", and they find that the trail can help. I am the exact opposite. I need to leave things in a good state back home to enjoy myself on trail, or I dwell on my problems constantly while walking. This is a very individual question and I'm not sure that the experiences of others will be that useful in predicting your own response to isolation or being away from the "real world". For me, however, the answer is clear: I do well with isolation when my life is going well overall. When things aren't going well, I don't enjoy myself. The trail is no "escape" for me.