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View Full Version : Official start and end of white mountains and 100 Mile Wilderness on the AT



Kulliman
03-25-2019, 13:24
Can someone tell me what the official White Mountains and 100 Mile Wilderness start and end points are on the Appalachian Trail, such as in miles from a landmark (road), shelters, etc.?

tdoczi
03-25-2019, 13:27
going NOBO, the white mountains most people would say begins at glencliff, NH. ends is a different story. rt 2 is one possibility, grafton notch (or somewhere ebwteen the 2) is another.

the 100 MW begins at monson ME and i think ends at the first baxter state park rd you come to. that ones easy. its the big distance between the 2 paved roads.

Koozy
03-25-2019, 13:37
going NOBO, the white mountains most people would say begins at glencliff, NH. ends is a different story. rt 2 is one possibility, grafton notch (or somewhere ebwteen the 2) is another.

the 100 MW begins at monson ME and i think ends at the first baxter state park rd you come to. that ones easy. its the big distance between the 2 paved roads.


White mountains definitely begin heading north out of Glencliff. I think the National forest portion of the WM officially terminates at Rt 2 in Gorham, but it doesn't feel like you're out of the Whites until Grafton Notch or just after the Baldpates.

100 MW: Monson to Golden Road (Abol Bridge).

tdoczi
03-25-2019, 13:47
White mountains definitely begin heading north out of Glencliff. I think the National forest portion of the WM officially terminates at Rt 2 in Gorham, but it doesn't feel like you're out of the Whites until Grafton Notch or just after the Baldpates.

100 MW: Monson to Golden Road (Abol Bridge).
like many things, the whites don't suddenly start or stop. you first encounter something that feels like the whites (if headed nobo) while descending moosilauke. then it goes back to more typical hiking for a good stretch. they really start in earnest when you get to the base of south kinsman, but thats just me. also, the glencliff side of moosilauke isnt in WMNF i dont believe i think the mahoosucs are though? if they arent then i dont know what they do belong to, and i dont feel like they just dont belong to some formal area.

Berserker
03-25-2019, 17:05
going NOBO, the white mountains most people would say begins at glencliff, NH. ends is a different story. rt 2 is one possibility, grafton notch (or somewhere ebwteen the 2) is another.
Per the maps it appears that the border of WMNF is at road 25C on the South end and US 2 on the North end. So I would call this the "official" start/end of the Whites.

Slo-go'en
03-25-2019, 18:19
Per the maps it appears that the border of WMNF is at road 25C on the South end and US 2 on the North end. So I would call this the "official" start/end of the Whites.

That's as good a definition as any. The Mahoosucs are considered a different range.

egilbe
03-25-2019, 18:53
The White Mountains are not just the National Forest designated parts. It includes the Mahoosucs, also

tdoczi
03-25-2019, 19:43
The White Mountains are not just the National Forest designated parts. It includes the Mahoosucs, also
its just kind of interesting to me the idea that the hill on the other side of the road is an entirely different mountain range from the one on this side of the road.

like i said somewhere earlier, i think these things are often more gradual transitions than sudden changes.

calling moosilauke the start of the whites is more clearcut because of the surrounding terrain

Slo-go'en
03-25-2019, 20:18
its just kind of interesting to me the idea that the hill on the other side of the road is an entirely different mountain range from the one on this side of the road.

like i said somewhere earlier, i think these things are often more gradual transitions than sudden changes.

calling moosilauke the start of the whites is more clearcut because of the surrounding terrain

Well, besides being in another State, The Whites are significantly higher then the Mahoosucs. All of a sudden the mountains are a couple thousand feet shorter. Except for Old Speck, but it's an outlier. Doesn't make them any easier.

tdoczi
03-25-2019, 21:24
Well, besides being in another State, The Whites are significantly higher then the Mahoosucs. All of a sudden the mountains are a couple thousand feet shorter. Except for Old Speck, but it's an outlier. Doesn't make them any easier.

well the difference from moriah to success is more like 500 feet.

i once read somewhere sort of officially and knowledgable sounding that described the mahoosucs as the footbhills of the white mountains. sounded about right.

Slo-go'en
03-25-2019, 21:35
If I happen to bump into one of the geologists who live here in town, I'll have to ask. But as far as I'm concerned, the White Mountains of NH end at the NH line. So, I guess Success is still in the Whites :)

tdoczi
03-25-2019, 22:38
If I happen to bump into one of the geologists who live here in town, I'll have to ask. But as far as I'm concerned, the White Mountains of NH end at the NH line. So, I guess Success is still in the Whites :)
werent we just agreeing in another thread that state lines have no bearing on this?

Whatever you want to call them, they don't care where the state line is.

in any practical sense "those really hard mountains that are unlike anything else on the trail" end finally when you get to east flagstaff road. being "done with the whites" doesnt earn you anything any more than being done with GA does, no matter where you think they end.

Slo-go'en
03-26-2019, 00:22
werent we just agreeing in another thread that state lines have no bearing on this?

Whatever you want to call them, they don't care where the state line is.

in any practical sense "those really hard mountains that are unlike anything else on the trail" end finally when you get to east flagstaff road. being "done with the whites" doesnt earn you anything any more than being done with GA does, no matter where you think they end.

Sort of, we were agreeing it's kind of pointless to hike to a state line just to say you hiked the whole state, if getting to that state line was sort of a pain to do.

Deciding where various geographic features start and end is different. State lines are often based on geological features. The Androscoggin river is probably where the White mountains officially ends and the Mahoosucs start.

red5
03-26-2019, 05:49
If were speaking officially, or better, technically, then I'm under the impression that Grafton Notch that sits between Old Speck and Baldpate is the official end of the White Mountains. Thus the Mahoosuc Range is merely a range within the White Mountains. The actual mountains don't care about state lines and park boundaries.

Baldpate is then the first of the Longfellow Range.

https://www.peakbagger.com/range.aspx?rid=1612

I know that's not an official site, but there you go.

tdoczi
03-26-2019, 06:20
Sort of, we were agreeing it's kind of pointless to hike to a state line just to say you hiked the whole state, if getting to that state line was sort of a pain to do.

Deciding where various geographic features start and end is different. State lines are often based on geological features. The Androscoggin river is probably where the White mountains officially ends and the Mahoosucs start.
yes, geographic features like rivers for sure. state lines though? naaah

well, if it is its because the state line follows the geographic feature

4eyedbuzzard
03-26-2019, 06:24
My vote geologically on The Whites would be from north of Enfield, NH all the way through into western ME around Rangeley. There's a common uplift/ridge cut into sections by the many notches, but they are all part of the same uplift. Many smaller named ranges such as Kinsman, Franconia, Mahoosucs - are all part of the larger White Mountains.

peakbagger
03-26-2019, 06:32
If you equate the White Mountains with the White Mountain National Forest then you need to go look at the declaration boundary which is the legally defined boundary of the WMNF.The WMNF boundary can not be changed except by act of congress. Like any political action, the boundaries are political compromises. When the boundaries were laid out some towns did not want to be in the WMNF as they legitimately feared they would cease to exist. Large landowners also didn't want to be included as they feared government control. I have no doubt that the Mahoosucs would have been included in the WMNF except that the Brown Company a major regional land owner didnt want to be within the boundary. Rather than expand the WMNF, two national wildlife refuges were created in Northern NH with boundaries that were less political which is watershed boundaries. The two refuges have been aggressively buying and outside the WMNF declaration boundary for close to 30 years as they do not need the same level of congressional action.

tdoczi
03-26-2019, 06:52
My vote geologically on The Whites would be from north of Enfield, NH all the way through into western ME around Rangeley. There's a common uplift/ridge cut into sections by the many notches, but they are all part of the same uplift. Many smaller named ranges such as Kinsman, Franconia, Mahoosucs - are all part of the larger White Mountains.
so that would loop smarts and cube into the whites? interesting and could very well be but thats not one you hear put forth often.

but i get what youre saying about uplift.

tdoczi
03-26-2019, 06:54
interesting side note to this just occured to me-

starting from moosilauke, when you come to a major road youre in kinsman notch. then franconia notch, then crawford notch, then pinkham notch. eventually when you get to rt 27 youre in grafton notch.

but first you come to.... rt 2 just outside of gorham. does this place for some reason not have a name? or is it just not used? if it has no name, is that somehow related to the discussion of the boundary? is the geological name of that spot just the river or the river valley?

peakbagger
03-26-2019, 19:31
The AT has moved around in the Gorham Shelburne area since the original layout. The AT crossing at RT 2 crosses the Androscoggin River Valley. If you look at google maps and zoom in on Gorham you will see how the Androscoggin River which is a fairly major watershed that drains the East side of Northern NH and the border of NW Maine. The river substantially goes North to South until Gorham where it takes very decidedly sharp left turn where it runs into Mt Moriah and Pine Mtn which is the end of ridge heading NE from Mt Madison. There are lot of notches in NH and some in Western Maine some far more distinct than others.

rickb
03-27-2019, 04:42
FWIW, PDF o review map of the WMNF here:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprd3802938.pdf

peakbagger
03-27-2019, 09:24
FYI, that map shows current federal ownership in NH not just WMNF but does not show the wildlife refuge lands which butt up against the WMNF boundary in the Cherry Mountain area(which is pretty typical). It also shows National Park Service land in the Mahoosucs which is not WMNF.

Deadeye
03-27-2019, 16:22
The Whites and the HMW both start at the end of the approach trail, of course. Count the steps, touch every white blaze from Springer to Big K, and by then you won't care a whit about anything "official." Or maybe you will.

Another Kevin
03-28-2019, 21:26
Ain't nothing 'official' or well defined about the Whites, but I'm thinking geologically, and I'd say that they start with the uplift belt where the trail turns back from east to north and starts climbing past the Dartmouth Skiway. Smarts and Cube are definitely among them at least as foothills. They peter out somewhere around Rangeley.

Where does it start feeling like the Whites when you're hiking? Probably where it starts going above the tree line, which would be Moosilauke.

4eyedbuzzard
03-28-2019, 22:45
Can someone tell me what the official White Mountains and 100 Mile Wilderness start and end points are on the Appalachian Trail, such as in miles from a landmark (road), shelters, etc.?So, after some thread drift into geology, I think most thru-hikers would consider the Whites as Glencliff to Gorham and consider the Mahoosucs as a separate area. The 100 mile (99.4 or so?) wilderness is pretty easy. Monson to Abol Bridge - and there are actually "caution" signs at both ends of it warning of the remoteness and to carry 10 days of food (which few do anymore). That's as official as it gets.

tdoczi
03-29-2019, 06:31
So, after some thread drift into geology, I think most thru-hikers would consider the Whites as Glencliff to Gorham and consider the Mahoosucs as a separate area. The 100 mile (99.4 or so?) wilderness is pretty easy. Monson to Abol Bridge - and there are actually "caution" signs at both ends of it warning of the remoteness and to carry 10 days of food (which few do anymore). That's as official as it gets.

i say this as a humorous aside and not looking to continue arguing oer where it ends.

but i think it may be more true that most thru hikers hear the whites end at rt 2 and then somewhere around carlo col start saying to each other "I thought the whites were over?"