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Mother Natures Son
04-01-2019, 19:27
According to local tick prevention agencies, (Yes there is such a thing.) S.C. PA Ticks are expected to be as bad or worse than other years due to a mild Winter. Be careful out there.

Hikes in Rain
04-01-2019, 20:05
Great. I hate ticks!

AegisIII
04-02-2019, 00:00
They were out in force at Martin Hill Wild Area in Bedford Co a weekend ago. Found a few on me and removed them, but must have missed one and had to go to the ER to get an engorged one removed from my, uhh, "mid-region" this weekend.

hike1
04-02-2019, 02:22
Hey Hikers!

The CDC has a Tick Page:
https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/index.html

The NIH/National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has a Lyme Disease Page:
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/addressing-lyme-disease

NIAID Published this, which I featured, with a bunch more information:
2018 Tick Alert, FYI: Tick Infections Rising
https://tahoetowhitney.org/content/2018-tick-alert-health-safety-information


I just posted this rather grim assessment of tick conditions in NY, Staten Island today, and it appears that this is just the most obvious expression of a more widespread breakout of Asian Longhorned Ticks on the East Coast, and Dog & DeerTicks across the nation.
44981

https://tahoetowhitney.org/content/asian-longhorned-tick-spreading-rapidly-in-ny

From the research above:

Asian Longhorned Ticks,
"...had been identified in the months prior to the Staten Island sighting in New Jersey, West Virginia, North Carolina and Arkansas and just a few weeks earlier in Westchester County.”

So yeah, it looks like you East Coast hikers (I'm a Californian) are going to have to really step-up the tick defences for these suckers...

The last time a tick got through my defenses (Lost Coast, Ca Coast) I cut the buried-engorged sucker out of the back of my thigh myself. It was ugly. I really do hate those little buggers... Ticks, along with skeeters, and golden biting flies all raise my neck hair a bit.

I've got a buch of current, recent news, & research on ticks here, using my site's search function:

https://tahoetowhitney.org/search/node/ticks

...but ticks really are an impressive display of Nature's diversity, drawing out my respect as well as my ire, expressed in,

The Ancient, Mighty Tick

https://tahoetowhitney.org/content/ancient-mighty-tick

Happy Trails!

Al

IslandPete
04-02-2019, 08:48
Permethrin. Don’t leave home without it...

JPritch
04-02-2019, 09:42
Ugh. I'm going to do Permethrin, picaridin/deet, and daily tick checks. I reached out to my wellness clinic here at work and was denied a prophylactic doxycycline prescription. I'm gonna have to keep shopping around. Anybody here successful at getting a prescription? Any tips to improve my chances, or is it just luck of the draw?

trailmercury
04-02-2019, 09:45
I would recommend you see a primary care provider. You usually get one wellness/preventative visit covered at 100% with most insurance plans. Discuss your situation during that visit. Most likely the provider will write the script.

JPritch
04-02-2019, 10:14
I would recommend you see a primary care provider. You usually get one wellness/preventative visit covered at 100% with most insurance plans. Discuss your situation during that visit. Most likely the provider will write the script.

I'll give it a shot...thank you!

Marta
04-02-2019, 22:42
Ugh. I'm going to do Permethrin, picaridin/deet, and daily tick checks. I reached out to my wellness clinic here at work and was denied a prophylactic doxycycline prescription. I'm gonna have to keep shopping around. Anybody here successful at getting a prescription? Any tips to improve my chances, or is it just luck of the draw?

Some doctors are jerks about it. A couple of years ago when I was in Maine I pulled an engorged deer tick off the back of my knee one morning. It took me an entire day of badgering my mother in law's physician, including three visits to the office to make personal pleas, for the doctor to agree to see me. She and her staff were all adamant that being attached overnight was not long enough for me to become infected. When I finally got in to see her, and showed her the tick, she agreed that it was the right type of tick, and that it was engorged. She grudgingly wrote me a prescription.

What really gripes me is that teenagers get prescriptions to take doxy for years on end, but for Lyme prevention, some doctors act like you're going to single-handedly release the Andromeda strain by taking prophylactic doxy.
My daughter is battling Lyme, which wasn't diagnosed for almost 25 years. It is awful. Just today I sent off my hiking clothing for commercial permethrin treatment.

Traveler
04-03-2019, 07:14
Some doctors will not prescribe medications to patients they have not examined or do not show any symptoms. Some will. Find one who will prescribe antibiotics as a prophylactic and you are all set. Clinics may be the best bet for this, given the likely higher traffic of tick/insect bites that they see as opposed to a family physician practice.

Speaking with my physician about this, there are a few concerns in doing this, one of them being if the drug is offered to a third party and bad reaction to the drug occurs, it can spark a legal issue that even if won, could threaten a license. Given the number of years and cost associated with a medical license, I can't say I blame them given the litigious nature of society today.

MuddyWaters
04-03-2019, 09:01
Some doctors will not prescribe medications to patients they have not examined or do not show any symptoms. Some will. Find one who will prescribe antibiotics as a prophylactic and you are all set. Clinics may be the best bet for this, given the likely higher traffic of tick/insect bites that they see as opposed to a family physician practice.

Speaking with my physician about this, there are a few concerns in doing this, one of them being if the drug is offered to a third party and bad reaction to the drug occurs, it can spark a legal issue that even if won, could threaten a license. Given the number of years and cost associated with a medical license, I can't say I blame them given the litigious nature of society today.

No problem buying antibiotics mail order . Online clinics will provide prescription as well.

Legal? Depends. Its illegal to import drugs exported for sale. Not likely to get in trouble though regardless.

My health plan has a Call-a-dr service now where for $40, instead of $180 dr visit, you can talk to dr on phone and get prescription for common things.

stephanD
04-03-2019, 09:51
There is no justification to prescribe antibiotics without being bitten. If you are bitten by a tick, a single dose may be prescribed prophylactically but, as far as i know, this is controversial.

TexasBob
04-03-2019, 11:23
Some doctors will not prescribe medications to patients they have not examined or do not show any symptoms. Some will. Find one who will prescribe antibiotics as a prophylactic and you are all set. Clinics may be the best bet for this, given the likely higher traffic of tick/insect bites that they see as opposed to a family physician practice.

Speaking with my physician about this, there are a few concerns in doing this, one of them being if the drug is offered to a third party and bad reaction to the drug occurs, it can spark a legal issue that even if won, could threaten a license. Given the number of years and cost associated with a medical license, I can't say I blame them given the litigious nature of society today.

Two points:
1. It is illegal to give another person your prescription medicine.
2. A doctor needs to establish a doctor-patient relationship with you before the doctor can prescribe you medicine.

trailmercury
04-03-2019, 11:27
There is no justification to prescribed antibiotics without being bitten. If you are bitten by a tick, a single dose may be prescribed prophylactically but, as far as i know, this is controversial.

I'm a physician (M.D.) in a very large health care organization. I work at a primary care clinic, not an urgent care facility. I am nothing special, just an average Joe Family Practitioner.
Medication is occasionally prescribed for "what if's". The physician is responsible for educating the patient on how/why/when to use the medication.
Examples include:
Epinephine for anaphylactic reaction
Antibiotics to take along abroad in case one gets traveler's diarrhea.
Diamox for short term high altitude exposure.
as needed medication for panic attacks or airline travel etc.
doxycycline for ixodes tick bites.

If I am the prescriber, but not confident the patient understands when to use an "as needed" medication, they don't get the script. Other health care providers in my field and geographic area practice similarly.

I would recommend folks just need to keep searching for a health care provider they can trust and who is willing to offer these types of therapies. It is not uncommon, At least in my "neck of the woods"

Response to Traveler about diverting medication: The prescriber is rarely if ever liable if the person they prescribed a drug for gives/sells to someone else. (unless they are practicing outside their scope). Diversion of medication happens commonly unfortunately, especially with controlled substances. There are ways to minimize the potential for diversion, and we are working hard in this area as well.

trailmercury
04-03-2019, 11:28
Two points:
1. It is illegal to give another person your prescription medicine.
2. A doctor needs to establish a doctor-patient relationship with you before the doctor can prescribe you medicine.

This is correct

TexasBob
04-03-2019, 13:08
Here is something to consider if you plan to carry doxycycline on your hike. Medications like doxycycline as supposed to be stored at "controlled room temperature" which is defined as 59 to 86 degrees Fahrenheit. Storage outside those temperatures can adversely affect the medication. A short section hike might not be too much of a problem but if you start at Springer by the time you reach Northern Virginia and further north where Lyme disease becomes much more likely to be a problem, is your doxycycline still effective? It will have been through freezing nights and boiling hot days. You may just be giving yourself a false sense of security when you take it and not really treating the problem.

stephanD
04-03-2019, 14:30
I'm not a doctor, just a simple nurse, but if it is established that the person was bitten, they should not have hard time to get a prescription for antibiotics (see post # 9) unless, of course, there's a contraindication (i.e. allergic reaction, kidney issues, etc.). Let's keep in mind that (A) I don't have the statistics in mind right now, but in about one third to a half of all tick bites there's no rash at all. (B) it may take a few weeks until antibodies are detectable in the blood test. Of course, it is best to be treated by your own doctor (assuming you have health insurance, but this is a whole different issue), but if you are hundreds of miles from home, this is not really an option.

rickb
04-03-2019, 15:00
I don’t get many ticks, on Monday morning I found one on the tip of my penis.

This product worked very well to remove the tick in its entirety:

https://www.amazon.com/Tick-Twister-Remover-Small-Large/dp/B01BECRHEO/ref=asc_df_B01BECRHEO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=218543830990&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17160516706475858462&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002009&hvtargid=pla-353237900540&psc=1

And even though the situation probably didn’t require it, when I called and left details for my doctor, his office called back to let me know a prescription for a single dose of antibiotics had been called into my pharmacy because on a risk/reward basis it probably made sense, together with a cite to the specific study he had used to support that conclusion.

I appreciated that.

Too bad I didn’t get to speak with him personally, I was ready with a rather droll summary of my situation.

mclaught
04-03-2019, 15:25
I'm no doctor, but if you really want a supply of doxycyline and you don't want to mess with a script, you can order Fish Doxy off the internet The "experts" will wring their hands and tell you you're taking your life into your own hands by taking unregulated meds but my best friend is a research pharmacist and tells me they are the same pills with the same markings, just without the 400% markup. Do your own research and all that, I wouldn't believe somebody's best friend that said something on the internet either, but I'm just throwing it out there as an option. Personally, I'm not big on the "pre-emptive" antibiotic plan, but to each his (or her) own.

Berserker
04-03-2019, 20:08
There is no justification to prescribe antibiotics without being bitten. If you are bitten by a tick, a single dose may be prescribed prophylactically but, as far as i know, this is controversial.
^This.

I'm surprised when this subject matter comes up and people get on here and say that they get Doxycycline to carry along with them in case they are bitten. I've done a lot of reading up on this subject, and Lyme as well as long term complications from Lyme are not yet fully understood by the medical community. The "one dose" thing also appears to be controversial as mentioned in the post above. There have been some reports that this allegedly "cures" someone who has been bitten, but this can not be easily proven. The one dose has to be taken within a short window of time after being bitten, but Lyme is not detectible until 2 - 4 weeks after someone has been bitten. So this one dose "silver bullet" tactic definitely does not have any scientific proof to back up that it actually works. In addition antibiotics have anti-inflammatory properties, and it has been found from some studies that this could actually mask the symptoms if one is infected thus leading to one not seeking medical help and missing out on early detection/treatment.

I'm not a doctor, and I encourage anyone who is curious to do their own research. I just think throwing out that we should all be carrying antibiotics and popping them "just in case" is not the solution until the medical community has data to back up that this actually works.

That's just my 2 cents.

Slumgum
04-04-2019, 11:51
From my own perspective and experience from living in a black-legged tick infested environment, I believe it is dangerous to wait for the medical establishment to reach some consensus regarding how best to deal with Lyme disease (It is not called "Lymes" disease). IMHO human medicine in the US is driven primarily by fear of malpractice suits and profit rather than what is "best" for the patient.

It is has been concluded that ticks need to be attached for 36 to 48 hours to transmit the disease. So I find the best prevention is to look myself over thoroughly at least every 24 hours and remove any ticks you find. If I can't reach/see the ticks I have a friend help. I don't have to look very hard since these tiny ticks (and I do mean tiny!) cause intense itching after they latch on for a few hours. If I feel a tick has been attached to me for longer than 36 hours I do start a course of doxy or amoxycillin for a few days. I hate antibiotics. I think they can screw up our gut microbiome and cause great damage not to mention that overuse of them is resulting in wide spread resistance. However, I fear Lyme disease even more. Over the course of the last 20 years and finding hundreds of black-legged ticks attached to me over that time period, I think I have resorted to antibiotics on only two occasions. I will be thru-hiking the A.T. this year and feel that a pair of fine tipped tweezers will be mandatory. I don't expect I will encounter ticks on the trail that rival the numbers I see here in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Deer are the main host for these ticks and we are over run with deer.

Please note, I am not giving advice. This is just what I do and it has worked for me so far. Do your own research. Take your doctor's advice at your own risk.

JPritch
04-04-2019, 12:42
There's a lot of contradicting information out there regarding ticks, lyme, and treatment. I'm a believer in prophylaxis, but not in a single dose. There are studies out there that show a continued course of treatment for around 3 weeks to be way more effective. The "consensus" of a tick needing to be attached for at least 36 hours or having to be engorged has also been debunked by countless individuals who contracted Lyme and other tick-borne diseases even when removing a tick well under the 36 hour window, often the same day.

If you get bitten by a lyme infested tick, by the time you see a doctor and they send it off for testing, you're basically screwed. I'm not willing to take that chance with my health.

And that whole Alpha-Gal-can't-eat-hoofed-meat...well that would be like a death sentence for me. :eek:

Slumgum
04-04-2019, 13:28
There's a lot of contradicting information out there regarding ticks, lyme, and treatment. I'm a believer in prophylaxis, but not in a single dose. There are studies out there that show a continued course of treatment for around 3 weeks to be way more effective. The "consensus" of a tick needing to be attached for at least 36 hours or having to be engorged has also been debunked by countless individuals who contracted Lyme and other tick-borne diseases even when removing a tick well under the 36 hour window, often the same day.:eek:

Yes. There is a lot of conflicting information on this topic even within the medical community. However, if I were to follow your protocol and go on a 3 week course of antibiotics every time I found a deer tick (black-legged tick) attached to me, then some years I would have to be on antibiotics from March until the first killing freeze late in the fall. As I said previously, antibiotics come with their own set of problems and I don't feel comfortable taking them unless absolutely necessary.

Regarding the 36 hour window, I haven't seen the studies refuting that claim. As for Lyme patients making the case that a tick was on them for less than 36 hours and yet it caused Lyme disease, that is anecdotal at best. Unless that person saw it attach and allowed it to remain in place for an interval of less than 36 hours only to find that it caused Lyme disease ... and that would be a pretty idiotic thing to do.

I agree with you that, essentially, it should be assumed that every tick you find attached to your body is a carrier of Borrelia (The Lyme disease organism) and waiting for the medical community to churn through their protocols could doom you to a protracted illness. That said, I still hold that prompt removal of deer ticks on a daily basis is a rational approach to prevention. It has worked for my entire family and we are surrounded by deer infested forest in a county with many, many cases of Lyme disease.

stephanD
04-04-2019, 16:07
Best way dealing with ticks is prevention. When i'm hiking, i probably look like an alien next to those youngish thru hikers with their bandanas and shorts. I wear a wide brim hat, long pants, and gaiters. My only compromise is tee shirts, i just can't hike with long sleeves shirts. So i check my arms and armpits every evening for ticks. All my hiking gear, with the exception of underwear and liner socks, is treated with permethrin, both commercially with insectShield and spray at home before leaving. on the trail, i never bushwack, unless i don't have a choice and i never stealth camp.

rickb
04-04-2019, 16:07
Yes. There is a lot of conflicting information on this topic even within the medical community.

One one thing I am sure we can all agree on — best to have a good understanding of options and risk factors, and have plan to deal with different scenarios (or not deal with it, if that is your choice) before you find an embedded tick.

Figuring out your preferred solution is hard enough on your way to work on a Monday morning, much more when you are out hiking. Good to know when the odds are on your side, and not to worry when you shouldn’t, too.

Even if you have easy access to a physician, when it comes to ticks, probably best not to assume he will have all the best answers in your moment of need.

And as the Boy Scout motto says, be prepared.

The money I spent on one of several sets I keep with special tweezers, lighted magnifying glass and that wonderful “tick twister” sure felt like a good investment with my most recent tick.

JPritch
04-04-2019, 16:21
Just gotta say, this has been a great discussion on the topic!

FreeGoldRush
04-04-2019, 17:02
It is has been concluded that ticks need to be attached for 36 to 48 hours to transmit the disease.

deer are the main host for these ticks....
Both of these statements are frequently repeated but I'm fairly sure they are untrue. Can you reference a study for either?

1) Reaearchers now believe ticks can transfer bacteria very quickly. I can post a link if you like, but no doubt opinions will vary on this.

2) Mice are the primary host for ticks. One thing that has worked for me on property we have with ticks is to soak cotton balls in permethrin. Place them in the cardboard leftover from a roll of toilet paper. Distribute around property. Mice use the cotton for nesting. Your permethrin soaked cotton will ensure those mice don't have ticks, and therefore will not spread them the next spring/summer.

Also keep in mind that ticks spread many different kinds of bacteria that will give you problems. Lyme is just one.

IslandPete
04-04-2019, 17:11
I have a daughter with Lyme. In my opinion, the question between taking antibiotics for a day or two after a tick bite, which may not have had Lyme, and which antibiotics may not address, vs possibly getting Lyme that you may have prevented, is a no brainer. Lyme is so bad compared to taking an antibiotic you may not need that it’s not worth talking about. Studies I’ve read, and I’ve read a lot, suggest that if you get bitten, a day or two of antibiotics while the bacteria is in your bloodstream is effective. I took doxy with me on our hike. I got bit and took two days. I didn’t get Lyme, which proves nothing, but I’ve seen Lyme affect a person, and would do anything that might possibly help prevent it. And toward prevention, everything my wife and I wore was treated with permethrin. I wore, as did my wife, compression type underwear, which we treated. Finding a tick on your ams or legs is pretty easy. Finding one on your back or torso with a friend is also doable. Finding one up in your junk or butt crack, on the trail, in the dark, when you may not have showered in 4 or 5 days is harder. A tick that has to squeeze between permethrin treated tight underwear wont make it. My $.02...

MuddyWaters
04-04-2019, 18:24
Few people will miss a bloated tick on them at night if they check.

Its the tiny nymphs you can barely see that are the bigger issue. At least imo. The ones you dont know bit you.

Mother Natures Son
04-04-2019, 19:07
What about good old Deet? This was (Or is.) the age old stand by to prevent ticks. Go to almost any drug store near the trail and you'll find a host of products with some level of Deet in it. So is it still a good thing to use it before you go out into the woods or not?

FreeGoldRush
04-04-2019, 19:18
What about good old Deet? This was (Or is.) the age old stand by to prevent ticks. Go to almost any drug store near the trail and you'll find a host of products with some level of Deet in it. So is it still a good thing to use it before you go out into the woods or not?
It is not practical to keep the entire surface of your skin covered in deet for the length of a thru hike, or even a day. Maybe use it at some points, but treating all your clothing with permethrin is priceless. It's easy and it works.

MtDoraDave
04-04-2019, 21:08
Yes, deet is what most agree works best on your skin. But it washes off or sweats off, and needs to be reapplied regularly.
Treating all my clothing, backpack, and sleeping bag with permethrin has kept ticks and most other insects off me.
It seems to work quite well as an insect repellent.
.
I tend to wear the thin nylon convertible pants long after most people have switched to shorts because the mild temporary discomfort of being warm outweighs the potential negative aspects of tick born illnesses.
.
For when it's too hot for pants, I wear Ryno Skins, a very thin, tightly woven pair of leggings - also treated with permethrin - that wicks sweat like athletic clothing and is therefore not hot.

Slumgum
04-04-2019, 21:21
Both of these statements are frequently repeated but I'm fairly sure they are untrue. Can you reference a study for either?

1) Reaearchers now believe ticks can transfer bacteria very quickly. I can post a link if you like, but no doubt opinions will vary on this.

2) Mice are the primary host for ticks. One thing that has worked for me on property we have with ticks is to soak cotton balls in permethrin. Place them in the cardboard leftover from a roll of toilet paper. Distribute around property. Mice use the cotton for nesting. Your permethrin soaked cotton will ensure those mice don't have ticks, and therefore will not spread them the next spring/summer.

Also keep in mind that ticks spread many different kinds of bacteria that will give you problems. Lyme is just one.

The statements you are "fairly sure" to be untrue: 1.) that deer ticks (black-legged ticks) need to be attached 36 to 48 hours to transmit the Lyme disease organism. 2.)Deer are the main host for deer ticks.

1.)The CDC agrees with me according to their website. There are few absolutes in biology and I am sure there are exceptions to the rule. My own personal experience is not a "study" but I have found the statement to be true having lived in a tick infested/high Lyme incidence environment for years.

2.)I have found black-legged ticks on raccoons, groundhogs, chickens, cats, and me. I don't doubt they are found on mice. Perhaps deer are not the primary host, but there must be some reason they are called "deer ticks". If I am wrong on that I accept the correction. It is a trivial point.

I would not criticize anyone for taking a medication if they think it might prevent a disease as in the case of Island Pete. However, living in a region where ticks/Lyme disease are endemic, it is ludicrous for me to take antibiotics every time I pull a tick off my body(as some would suggest) because I would be on them for months at a time. I have survived free of Lyme disease. Coincidence? Luck? Call it what you want. It is not a "study". So, yes, cover up; treat clothing with permethrin; bring tweezers to pull ticks every 24 hours, etc. But popping antibiotics every time I pull a deer tick ... not for me.

Marta
04-04-2019, 22:57
I have a daughter with Lyme. In my opinion, the question between taking antibiotics for a day or two after a tick bite, which may not have had Lyme, and which antibiotics may not address, vs possibly getting Lyme that you may have prevented, is a no brainer. Lyme is so bad compared to taking an antibiotic you may not need that it’s not worth talking about. Studies I’ve read, and I’ve read a lot, suggest that if you get bitten, a day or two of antibiotics while the bacteria is in your bloodstream is effective. I took doxy with me on our hike. I got bit and took two days. I didn’t get Lyme, which proves nothing, but I’ve seen Lyme affect a person, and would do anything that might possibly help prevent it. And toward prevention, everything my wife and I wore was treated with permethrin. I wore, as did my wife, compression type underwear, which we treated. Finding a tick on your ams or legs is pretty easy. Finding one on your back or torso with a friend is also doable. Finding one up in your junk or butt crack, on the trail, in the dark, when you may not have showered in 4 or 5 days is harder. A tick that has to squeeze between permethrin treated tight underwear wont make it. My $.02...

I'm with you, Pete. We have an adult daughter who probably had Lyme for about 25 years before it was finally diagnosed in 2017. Two years of treatment later, she is unable to work, or function on her own. For about 20 years she had a collection of weird symptoms, but was strong and functioned normally. Then about six years ago she was in a car accident. (Drunken, driver hit her car hard enough to deploy the air bag.) That started a cascade of effects that have left her a complete mess. What she has been told is that the spirochetes colonize damaged soft tissue. When she was injured, the infection exploded. Her immune system collapsed. With that came some co-infections that are at least as debilitating as the Lyme itself.

I'll say that I am constantly meeting other people, particularly hikers, who have mysterious symptoms that happen to be some of the symptoms our daughter has suffered. This past Monday evening I was talking to a woman here in Flagstaff who has received a diagnosis of a Parkinson-related condition of unknown origin, with a prognosis of dementia and early death. Her main symptom is a feeling like an electric charge that builds up in her brain. That was our daughter's first and longest-running symptom of the neuro-Lyme. The woman I was talking to said she'd had Lyme a number of years ago, but it was treated and supposedly cured. If it were me or my family, I'd pursue that avenue a little harder.

A neighbor of ours in Montana said his brother in Minnesota has had Lyme four times. Has he really been infected four different times? Or was he treated according to the CDC and insurance company protocols that say to take antibiotics for a month. Then you wait a while, and the infections comes roaring back.

fastfoxengineering
04-04-2019, 23:50
I got treated for Lyme at 22. I had never been so sick in my life. The antibiotics made me feel much, much better.

I now suffer from chronic pain and chronic fatigue. Ive been retested for Lyme twice since and both show negative.

Ive got some other stuff going on but I always wonder if Lyme has something to do with some of my health problems.

Im now 28 and feel 60. Not joking.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

Slumgum
04-05-2019, 07:25
A neighbor of ours in Montana said his brother in Minnesota has had Lyme four times. Has he really been infected four different times? Or was he treated according to the CDC and insurance company protocols that say to take antibiotics for a month. Then you wait a while, and the infections comes roaring back.

Some believe once you contract Lyme disease you never really get rid of it. At best, it can only be kept at bay.

IslandPete
04-05-2019, 09:05
I got treated for Lyme at 22. I had never been so sick in my life. The antibiotics made me feel much, much better.

I now suffer from chronic pain and chronic fatigue. Ive been retested for Lyme twice since and both show negative.

Ive got some other stuff going on but I always wonder if Lyme has something to do with some of my health problems.

Im now 28 and feel 60. Not joking.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Fox,
if your doctor is testing you, I expect you’re getting the “Eliza” test, and it’s worthless. Ask for a “Western Blot” test. If the doc won’t order it, find a LabCorp or Quest lab in your area and you can get yourself tested. If you’ve got Lyme, you can still treat it. My daughter was feeling the same as you, and is now much, much better. I’d be happy to talk with you outside the forum if you have questions or get tested positive. PM me
pete

Carbo
04-05-2019, 09:11
In addition to the preventive measures listed above, you may want to have a Lyme test done, one before the season starts to get a reference level, then a second one near the end of season to see if there is any increase in the level indicated by the results.

Berserker
04-05-2019, 09:29
This is a great discussion, and I didn't really finish my thought in my first post of this thread. First off, if you are a firm believer in what I call the "silver bullet" approach to taking a single doxycycline pill after being bitten, then go for it. I'm not here to judge anyone who thinks that approach works because I don't know if it does or not.

My main conundrum with this approach is that there's no scientific data or study that backs it up. I'm not a doctor, but I am an engineer by trade and am thus subject to thinking things through in a logical manner. I've seen this approach discussed online, but there's never any scientific evidence backing up that this has any more effect than taking a placebo. I don't know of any bacterial infection where a doctor would prescribe a single antibiotic pill to cure it. Antibiotics are always prescribed as a course consisting of some period of time (i.e. 5 days, 2 weeks, etc.). Considering how complicated the biological processes are in our bodies I don't see how a single pill could actually do anything. I mean what's the criteria for the application of the single dose? Without a study to develop this criteria it's just a crap shoot as to when to take it, and if it will even work.

Furthermore, as detailed by some other posters in this thread with firsthand experience, Lyme is a very complicated disease that is not fully understood. So the data is not there to determine who's at risk, what are all the potential complications for those individuals and so on. I mean I find it hard to believe that everyone that is bitten by a Lyme infected black legged tick is contracting Lyme. So that leads me to believe that certain individuals may be at more risk (e.g. maybe people who have some underlying autoimmune disorder), and we just don't have the data to determine who those people are yet.

At any rate, that's just my opinion. I'm deathly afraid of Lyme and every time I see a tick on me (about 99% of them are not black legged ticks by the way) I freak out and want to go on antibiotics, but I don't because it logically doesn't make sense. So I just thought I'd post my opinion from someone that's prone to overreacting to certain things to hopefully help others like myself who may be reading this thread and starting to freak out.

To those who posted that have Lyme or have first hand experience with it, thanks for posting and providing details. Lyme is a very scary disease, and my heart goes out to all of you directly affected by it.


From my own perspective and experience from living in a black-legged tick infested environment, I believe it is dangerous to wait for the medical establishment to reach some consensus regarding how best to deal with Lyme disease (It is not called "Lymes" disease). IMHO human medicine in the US is driven primarily by fear of malpractice suits and profit rather than what is "best" for the patient.
Thanks Slumgum, I went back and corrected my post to get rid of "Lymes" as I didn't do a good proofread before posting.

trailmercury
04-05-2019, 09:51
This is a great discussion, and I didn't really finish my thought in my first post of this thread. First off, if you are a firm believer in what I call the "silver bullet" approach to taking a single doxycycline pill after being bitten, then go for it. I'm not here to judge anyone who thinks that approach works because I don't know if it does or not.

My main conundrum with this approach is that there's no scientific data or study that backs it up. I'm not a doctor, but I am an engineer by trade and am thus subject to thinking things through in a logical manner. I've seen this approach discussed online, but there's never any scientific evidence backing up that this has any more effect than taking a placebo. I don't know of any bacterial infection where a doctor would prescribe a single antibiotic pill to cure it. Antibiotics are always prescribed as a course consisting of some period of time (i.e. 5 days, 2 weeks, etc.). Considering how complicated the biological processes are in our bodies I don't see how a single pill could actually do anything. I mean what's the criteria for the application of the single dose? Without a study to develop this criteria it's just a crap shoot as to when to take it, and if it will even work.

Furthermore, as detailed by some other posters in this thread with firsthand experience, Lyme is a very complicated disease that is not fully understood. So the data is not there to determine who's at risk, what are all the potential complications for those individuals and so on. I mean I find it hard to believe that everyone that is bitten by a Lyme infected black legged tick is contracting Lyme. So that leads me to believe that certain individuals may be at more risk (e.g. maybe people who have some underlying autoimmune disorder), and we just don't have the data to determine who those people are yet.

At any rate, that's just my opinion. I'm deathly afraid of Lyme and every time I see a tick on me (about 99% of them are not black legged ticks by the way) I freak out and want to go on antibiotics, but I don't because it logically doesn't make sense. So I just thought I'd post my opinion from someone that's prone to overreacting to certain things to hopefully help others like myself who may be reading this thread and starting to freak out.

To those who posted that have Lyme or have first hand experience with it, thanks for posting and providing details. Lyme is a very scary disease, and my heart goes out to all of you directly affected by it.


Thanks Slumgum, I went back and corrected my post to get rid of "Lymes" as I didn't do a good proofread before posting.

False.

There are infections that are diagnosed and treated as a one time dose. Chlamydia is one of them... Vaginal yeast infection is another... There are others. Gonorrhea is treated with a single intramuscular injection.

trailmercury
04-05-2019, 09:54
But yeast infections aren't caused by bacteria. Not trying to imply that.

Berserker
04-05-2019, 10:15
False.

There are infections that are diagnosed and treated as a one time dose. Chlamydia is one of them... Vaginal yeast infection is another... There are others. Gonorrhea is treated with a single intramuscular injection.
Hmmmm...interesting. Thanks for educating me on that. I don't have any knowledge on STDs and stuff of that nature so I didn't know about those.

TexasBob
04-05-2019, 11:04
Few people will miss a bloated tick on them at night if they check.

Its the tiny nymphs you can barely see that are the bigger issue. At least imo. The ones you dont know bit you.

This is true. You are probably not going to see the tick that gives you Lyme disease because it is usually transmitted by the nymphal stage. The picture below shows an adult and a nymph.

45000


The statements you are "fairly sure" to be untrue: .............. 2.)Deer are the main host for deer ticks. ...........
2.)I have found black-legged ticks on raccoons, groundhogs, chickens, cats, and me. I don't doubt they are found on mice. Perhaps deer are not the primary host, but there must be some reason they are called "deer ticks". If I am wrong on that I accept the correction. It is a trivial point.......

Not so trivial. The white-footed mouse is the reservoir (principle source) of the Lyme disease bacteria which infects the larval and nymphal ticks when they feed on the mice. So if the ticks didn't feed on the mice they won't be carrying Lyme. Adult ticks feed on larger animals like deer hence the name.
Read about their life cycle here:
http://labs.russell.wisc.edu/wisconsin-ticks/ixodes-scapularis-life-cycle/

Slumgum
04-05-2019, 11:49
This is true. You are probably not going to see the tick that gives you Lyme disease because it is usually transmitted by the nymphal stage. The picture below shows an adult and a nymph.


Thanks for those links, Bob. They contain valuable information, especially those photos. However, I disagree that you are probably not going to see the tick that gives you Lyme disease. Any stage of this tick that attaches to me causes intense itching after a short time. Perhaps it does not affect other people the same way, and if so, then you are correct. But any time I get an itchy place on my body I look for a tiny speck in the center. It is almost unbelievable that anything so tiny could transmit a disease as horrendous as Lyme. I can understand that on the trail there might be a lot of "noise" regarding itchiness: chiggers, mosquitoes, black flies, poison ivy. However, much of the info posted on this thread fosters a degree of hysteria that I believe is out of line.
Yes, it is a horrible disease. Yes, there is conflicting information out there (and I guess I am guilty to some extent). Yes, the medical community is not even in agreement on treatment (that is why they call it the "practice" of medicine). Yes, there is no perfect course to prevention. But with diligence and a knowledge of how to limit exposure to this disease I believe we can have a reasonable expectation of returning from the trail without Lyme disease.

TexasBob
04-05-2019, 12:14
Thanks for those links, Bob. They contain valuable information, especially those photos. However, I disagree that you are probably not going to see the tick that gives you Lyme disease. Any stage of this tick that attaches to me causes intense itching after a short time. Perhaps it does not affect other people the same way, and if so, then you are correct. But any time I get an itchy place on my body I look for a tiny speck in the center. It is almost unbelievable that anything so tiny could transmit a disease as horrendous as Lyme. I can understand that on the trail there might be a lot of "noise" regarding itchiness: chiggers, mosquitoes, black flies, poison ivy. However, much of the info posted on this thread fosters a degree of hysteria that I believe is out of line.
Yes, it is a horrible disease. Yes, there is conflicting information out there (and I guess I am guilty to some extent). Yes, the medical community is not even in agreement on treatment (that is why they call it the "practice" of medicine). Yes, there is no perfect course to prevention. But with diligence and a knowledge of how to limit exposure to this disease I believe we can have a reasonable expectation of returning from the trail without Lyme disease.

You are lucky that ticks make you itch and alert you to a problem. They never make me itch. I wonder if more people are like you or are they like me itch-wise when it comes to ticks.

mclaught
04-05-2019, 12:26
Ticks make me itch also. I guess I never understood how people could let a tick sit there for days at a time. They feel like a mosquito bite to me, I scratch it, feel the bump of the tick and pull it off. I had no idea that they didn't make everybody itch. This has been a good thread.

rickb
04-05-2019, 12:31
Another point on which we probably all agree is that if you do find an embedded tick, it’s best to remove it without delay — and in such a way you don’t leave mouth parts behind or squeeze some of the tick’s stomach contents back into your body.

Am I the only one here who has pulled one off and left a small part of it behind - and then dug a small crater to get those parts out? Not good.

After getting one in a most sensitive area earlier this week, I cannot speak highly enough about the TickTwister — even though I (or to be more accurate, my wife) only used this one time.

I am sure ther are other good ways to remove a tick, but I can say with certainty that the tweezers on a Micra is not one of them.

Berserker
04-05-2019, 12:36
I'm another one of those that has a reaction to a tick bite. As a matter of fact, I have been bitten by ticks (usually Lone Star ticks) and had the bite last for months before it fully heals. So I have also always wondered about those that have no reaction. I'm guessing that some of us must be having an allergic reaction to something in the tick saliva.

Sarcasm the elf
04-05-2019, 12:39
I'm another one of those that has a reaction to a tick bite. As a matter of fact, I have been bitten by ticks (usually Lone Star ticks) and had the bite last for months before it fully heals. So I have also always wondered about those that have no reaction. I'm guessing that some of us must be having an allergic reaction to something in the tick saliva.

I’m in the same boat. Don’t know much about the cause, but I assumed it was an acquired reaction, because I never used to react to tick bites when I was younger.

Sarcasm the elf
04-05-2019, 12:41
Another point on which we probably all agree is that if you do find an embedded tick, it’s best to remove it without delay — and in such a way you don’t leave mouth parts behind or squeeze some of the tick’s stomach contents back into your body.

Am I the only one here who has pulled one off and left a small part of it behind - and then dug a small crater to get those parts out? Not good.

After getting one in a most sensitive area earlier this week, I cannot speak highly enough about the TickTwister — even though I (or to be more accurate, my wife) only used this one time.

I am sure ther are other good ways to remove a tick, but I can say with certainty that the tweezers on a Micra is not one of them.

I’ve removed hundreds of ticks (Primarily off of my dogs and horses) using an O’Tom tick twister and think it’s the best removal device I’ve found.