Rainy and Cold Weather

[spfleisig]

Each year around this time I watch AT thru hike videos in which folks are flat out miserable because they are wet and cold after hiking through hours of rain. This got me wondering whether the fact that lots of people are trying carry less weight meant they don't have the "perfect" equipment for the conditions, or no matter what stuff they had, they'd still be cold and miserable.

So is there a way to hike on the AT in the colder months in hours of rain and be "fine" with the weather because you had the right gear choices? Would you need to carry 5lbs more? Multiple rain jackets....tops...etc?

Just curious.

[Dogwood]

Being miserable is as much, or more, about a mindset as it is more or the "right" kind of gear.

https://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/15-habits-highly-miserable-people.html

I witness regularly those with tons of gear and the "right" type of cold and wet weather gear miserable SOB's.

[MuddyWaters]

Your gonna be wet and cold
When hiking in rain in cool weather
Its when its 5 days per week thats the issue

Yeah, it gets depressing.
Especially when you wasnt expecting it, for some reason

It will let up in a few weeks....for a little while, then summer rains start

I been itching to go for a week long walk myself
But weathers been sucky....no need to subject myself to 3 days of cold drizzle.

[Crossup]

Its only taken me 3 weeks on the AT to figure out, if you can not to some extent, literally embrace the suck, you are likely going to be miserable for many reasons, not just cold/wet.

Like Dogwood says, it takes a good attitude as much good gear and the gear can only do so much.

[Tipi Walter]

You have several options when hiking in a rainstorm at 35F to 40F---

** Embrace the Suck as Crossup says. This leads to frozen hands which become blocks of wood and eventually wets out your entire hiking layers including boots and socks. Hopefully the stuff in your pack stays dry.

This can suck in a long winter rainstorm---I count them by the hours of rain. My recent record is 153 hours of rain during a January trip in 2012. Another big number was 180 hours in January in the Big Frog/Cohutta.

** In a long all day winter rainstorm you can---could---perhaps should---must---think about it---set up your tent and spend a zero watching the storm pass. I mean, why not? Winter AT backpackers often spend a couple days in such weather and then bail into hostels or motels for a couple days---so what's the difference?

** Speaking of which, you could emulate Happy and Yappy's AT hike this year. Here's some of their winter highlights---

+++On 1/18/19 they hiked in a cold rain and reached a hostel where they stayed for two days.

+++On 1/24 in a cold rain they spent the night at Uncle Johnny's hostel.

+++On 1/28 they spent two days in Hot Springs.

+++On 1/31 they stayed at Standing Bear Hostel.

+++On 2/3 they stayed at Fontana visitors center.

+++2/5 at NOC.

+++2/11 at Woody Gap hotel for two days.

Point is, hiking in such crappy weather entices and often demands that you either hole up in your tent for zeros or bail into "towns" to dry out.

See---
https://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/606471

[Gambit McCrae]

It doesn't matter if I am completely soaking wet and walking in mud. I know that at the end of the day I WILL have a dry set of clothes and a warm sleeping bag to get into. So if I start to get cold, I need to walk faster. It is very much in large about embracing the suck. It sucks but its what I signed up for so lets smile about it and move on along. I can walk the same wet as I can dry, and after walkin for a few days in some heat, getting a shower from rain and being cool feels pretty good. All about perspective.

[Tipi Walter]

It doesn't matter if I am completely soaking wet and walking in mud. I know that at the end of the day I WILL have a dry set of clothes and a warm sleeping bag to get into. So if I start to get cold, I need to walk faster. It is very much in large about embracing the suck. It sucks but its what I signed up for so lets smile about it and move on along. I can walk the same wet as I can dry, and after walkin for a few days in some heat, getting a shower from rain and being cool feels pretty good. All about perspective.

This is the usual scenario for a winter backpacker---dry clothes at the end of the day---in camp---with the wet stuff wrung out and set aside.

But then if it's raining the next morning you have to put those butt cold wet garments from yesterday back on---and this truly sucks.

And there's a Winter Phenom which hits the Southeast mountains and along the AT---an all-day winter rainstorm---or a two or three day storm---and it ends and then temps plummet to 20F or 10F---I call it the Decareaux Cycle in memory of David Decareaux and his two sons who perished in the Ozarks in such a cycle.

How this affects winter backpackers beyond hypothermia is everything which gets wet---your tarp or tent or webbing or pack or straps or boots etc---turns frozen and solid---so zippers won't open and poles won't separate and tarps/flies have a varnish of ice and boots/shoes are solid bricks.

[spfleisig]

Each year around this time I watch AT thru hike videos in which folks are flat out miserable because they are wet and cold after hiking through hours of rain. This got me wondering whether the fact that lots of people are trying carry less weight meant they don't have the "perfect" equipment for the conditions, or no matter what stuff they had, they'd still be cold and miserable.

So is there a way to hike on the AT in the colder months in hours of rain and be "fine" with the weather because you had the right gear choices? Would you need to carry 5lbs more? Multiple rain jackets....tops...etc?

Just curious.

My post really wasn't shooting for embrace the suck sort of replies. It was aimed to get specific gear choices that folks have used.

[Tipi Walter]

My post really wasn't shooting for embrace the suck sort of replies. It was aimed to get specific gear choices that folks have used.

The no-brainer answer is to carry rain pants and a rain jacket and decide what you want to wear underneath that will get soaked. Minimal layers hopefully so you'll have dry clothing to change into at camp.

The whole entire purpose of rain gear is to not keep you dry but to keep you WARM so your shaking fits don't get out of hand. A good shell (system) retains alot of heat while you're moving and that's the whole point of the stuff. My Arcteryx rain jacket is a Survival Tool---and I never pull a trip without it. But it won't keep your hands from becoming blocks of numb wood after a long day in a winter rain. MLD eVent shells DO NOT work long-term.

[Crossup]

As far as I'm concerned embracing the suck DOES NOT include wood block hands and completely soaked gear. That is pushing the envelope too close to serious danger and as Tipi Walter says, you are much better off taking the zero(s).
To me embracing the suck means being able to continue in less than idea conditions, enduring discomfort that is not a danger to your safety- without grinding down my spirit, because at the end of the day we are doing this mostly for fun. And the reason many of us can do this as simple as Gambit says- knowing there is dry clothing, warm food and relatively comfortable accommodations awaiting.

[Dogwood]

Consistently cold and wet is when I trend towards rain pants, true WP rain jacket(MB Versalite(have had 3 different versions with the latest my fav), ZP Challenger eVent hybrid DCF, OR Helium 2, or one off the Arc Teryx jackets or older EMS eVent 2.5 L, WP gloves and insulating liners, non WP merino and lightly insulated WP socks, a merino beanie(My fav is now SW 150), and merino mid/bases. I've also done a rain kilt with taller WP socks, and rain jacket, with wet but warm gloves for hands. Warming maybe one day I'll tray a poncho regularly.

I like seam taped DCF packs for wet and cold.

What I find very helpful to cold and rain is having a good attitude about it. I truly dont recognize wet and cold as crappy weather. It's just another type of weather to roll with. What helps maintain a positive attitude in cold and rain is having a Rain Song Play List category added to my trail music.

CCR - Have You Ever Seen the Rain
Eric Clapton - Let it Rain
The Alarm - Rain in the Summer Time
Natasha Bedingfield - Unwritten
Gene Kelly - Singing in the Rain
Jose Gonzalez - Time to Step Outside
U2 - Beautiful Day
Donovan Frankenreiter - Gonna Be a Lovely Day
Eddie Vedder - Rise
Proclaimers - I would walk 500 miles
Rusted Root - Send me on my way
Fitz and the Tantrums - The Walker
Madonna - Rain
G&R - November Rain
Ben Howard - Old Pine I like this one because it reminds of the earthy evergreen smells during a rain
Opus Orange - Almost there

Have to agree wet and cold weather doesn't equate with being miserable weather.

[Puddlefish]

I don't really have a problem walking all day with rain. I use an umbrella, a windshirt, rain skirt, and shorts. I hated traditional rain jackets as I'd just get soaked with sweat, and overheated. Maybe it's the bit of extra body weight I tend to carry, but I find if I keep moving at a consistent pace I'm not at all cold. I typically find the rain refreshing, and I don't get waterlogged. It kind of sounds like I'm saying embrace it, but it does mess with my routine. Stopping isn't so much of an option, this screws with my normal one hour lunch and foot care regimen, where I normally let my feet dry out for an hour. I tend to stop an hour earlier as a result.

So, I have to prepare differently in the morning. Pre-treat my toes and soles with some sort of body glide to keep out the wet as long as possible, to avoid pruning. Can't switch out socks, so I'm really careful about having an alcohol swab to dry my feet/remove traces of the body glide, and a dry pair of socks for the tent, even if I have to put wet socks and shoes on the next morning. I have a tiny clothesline across the top of my tent, which is semi effective. I might boil some water, bottle it and wrap my wet socks around it. I don't bring the wet socks into my sleeping bag, as it's not worth risking getting the bag damp and ineffective.

I try to get a lot more food in my hip belt, so I can just eat my lunch on the move, unless I'm sure there's a shelter I can stop at lunch for (usually isn't.)

I also step in the middle of puddles as a matter of routine. Chances are the ground is flatter, and I'm less likely to slip on that thin layer of mud at the edge of the puddle, by trying to be clever and sneak off balance around the puddle.

I don't know what videos you're watching, but I just don't find the rain to be all that annoying. On the AT you almost always have the option to just get off the trail every three days and wash and dry out all your stuff, and start fresh.

[Dogwood]

Israel "IZ" Kamakawiwo'ole - Somewhere Over the Rainbow

[Puddlefish]

Once, when my Zune died... I spent an entire day with the Winnie the Pooh classic "I'm just a little black rain cloud" rattling around my brain. Tut tut, looks like rain!

I wouldn't recommend this method.

[spfleisig]

I don't really have a problem walking all day with rain. I use an umbrella, a windshirt, rain skirt, and shorts. I hated traditional rain jackets as I'd just get soaked with sweat, and overheated. Maybe it's the bit of extra body weight I tend to carry, but I find if I keep moving at a consistent pace I'm not at all cold. I typically find the rain refreshing, and I don't get waterlogged. It kind of sounds like I'm saying embrace it, but it does mess with my routine. Stopping isn't so much of an option, this screws with my normal one hour lunch and foot care regimen, where I normally let my feet dry out for an hour. I tend to stop an hour earlier as a result.

So, I have to prepare differently in the morning. Pre-treat my toes and soles with some sort of body glide to keep out the wet as long as possible, to avoid pruning. Can't switch out socks, so I'm really careful about having an alcohol swab to dry my feet/remove traces of the body glide, and a dry pair of socks for the tent, even if I have to put wet socks and shoes on the next morning. I have a tiny clothesline across the top of my tent, which is semi effective. I might boil some water, bottle it and wrap my wet socks around it. I don't bring the wet socks into my sleeping bag, as it's not worth risking getting the bag damp and ineffective.

I try to get a lot more food in my hip belt, so I can just eat my lunch on the move, unless I'm sure there's a shelter I can stop at lunch for (usually isn't.)

I also step in the middle of puddles as a matter of routine. Chances are the ground is flatter, and I'm less likely to slip on that thin layer of mud at the edge of the puddle, by trying to be clever and sneak off balance around the puddle.

I don't know what videos you're watching, but I just don't find the rain to be all that annoying. On the AT you almost always have the option to just get off the trail every three days and wash and dry out all your stuff, and start fresh.

Umbrella question. Skurka suggests using an umbrella in warm/hot temps b/c of ventilation. How does a small trail umbrella keep your upper torso even remotely dry if it's a wind-whipped rain?

[Puddlefish]

Umbrella question. Skurka suggests using an umbrella in warm/hot temps b/c of ventilation. How does a small trail umbrella keep your upper torso even remotely dry if it's a wind-whipped rain?

Patagonia wind shirt, it's a nice blend of keeping some wind out, and is fairly neutral on the moisture moving in and out. Keeps just enough warmth for me. In two months on the southern AT, I got maybe two weeks of rain, and probably had one day on a ridge where the wind was bringing the rain sideways, that wasn't really pleasant.

Another day was just a cold mist, which just hung in the air as I walked into it. I cut that day short and headed into town.

Edit: mostly the shirt stayed dry, or at most one arm would get wet.

[LittleRock]

It doesn't matter if I am completely soaking wet and walking in mud. I know that at the end of the day I WILL have a dry set of clothes and a warm sleeping bag to get into. So if I start to get cold, I need to walk faster. It is very much in large about embracing the suck. It sucks but its what I signed up for so lets smile about it and move on along. I can walk the same wet as I can dry, and after walkin for a few days in some heat, getting a shower from rain and being cool feels pretty good. All about perspective.
I've found that this strategy works to some extent but it has its limits. I hit my limit during a section in SNP last April. Temps hovering around 35 F, 20-30 mph winds, and rain that got heavier as the day went on. I tried to push through but by mid-afternoon I was booking it down the trail as fast as I could go and still shivering. At that point hypothermia became a real concern so I hunkered down in my tent at the first reasonable opportunity. Took me over an hour curled up in my 20 degree bag with all my warm clothes on to get warm again. I talked to some thrus a couple days later who said that day was worse than hiking through snowstorms in February.

[Tipi Walter]

I've found that this strategy works to some extent but it has its limits. I hit my limit during a section in SNP last April. Temps hovering around 35 F, 20-30 mph winds, and rain that got heavier as the day went on. I tried to push through but by mid-afternoon I was booking it down the trail as fast as I could go and still shivering. At that point hypothermia became a real concern so I hunkered down in my tent at the first reasonable opportunity. Took me over an hour curled up in my 20 degree bag with all my warm clothes on to get warm again. I talked to some thrus a couple days later who said that day was worse than hiking through snowstorms in February.

Thank you. This is exactly the conditions I was talking about in my posts.

And you bring up the most important point: Knowing When to Hunker In . . .or to . . ."Set Up Where You Stand."

Alot of hikers don't realize how cold it can be in the Southeast mountains and still RAIN . . . and a 35F rainstorm is cold in all ways. Hiking in such a rainstorm is a choice individuals make---as is the choice to pull a squat station and pull an in-tent zero for the day and watch the crap pass.

Hiking in a cold rain often produces low-grade hypothermia---along with numb hands---and then the challenge is to find a hunker spot and then setting up the tent/tarp/hammock etc with some amount of decorum and not panic. Remember, this thread is not about hiking in a summer rain---it's about backpacking in a butt cold rainstorm.

[Christoph]

Pretty much whatever you do (with the exception of sitting every storm out in the shelter (but you'd never get to Maine that way!)), you're going to get wet, be cold, and some days will be a little miserable. Not every day is perfect, but it's all in the mindset. I remember coming to a shelter area after a long day and was pretty soaked. It had been raining for about a week straight. The shelter was completely full of soaking wet hikers and their gear. They were the ones who actually looked miserable in my mind (they confessed to being there for 2 days. Guess they were afraid of a little rain?)). This somehow cheered me up and found it quite amusing that a shelter-full of "hikers" were afraid of a little rain. So I pressed on and night hiked until I got to a very nice spot, set up my wet gear, and when I woke up the sun was on me and I wasn't in that little cold valley where the shelter was.

[Puddlefish]

Pretty much whatever you do (with the exception of sitting every storm out in the shelter (but you'd never get to Maine that way!)), you're going to get wet, be cold, and some days will be a little miserable. Not every day is perfect, but it's all in the mindset. I remember coming to a shelter area after a long day and was pretty soaked. It had been raining for about a week straight. The shelter was completely full of soaking wet hikers and their gear. They were the ones who actually looked miserable in my mind (they confessed to being there for 2 days. Guess they were afraid of a little rain?)). This somehow cheered me up and found it quite amusing that a shelter-full of "hikers" were afraid of a little rain. So I pressed on and night hiked until I got to a very nice spot, set up my wet gear, and when I woke up the sun was on me and I wasn't in that little cold valley where the shelter was.

It was 30 degrees overnight, two inches of snow had fallen overnight, and another three were forecast for the day, warming up to a balmy 35. I'd just spent the night at the second to last shelter heading northbound in the GSMNP (Pecks Corner), it was only the second time I stayed in a shelter ever, as I prefer to tent. It was crowded, noisy, and one guy kept us all awake. There were about 18 of us packed in with another 18 expected to arrive with reservations that night. No way in hell was I staying another night.

Ranger Chloe arrived and she just took charge like a boss (in a good way.) She stated she was going to determine who was going where, and who could stay and who needed to move on... For whatever reason, she started with me. I said 'I'm hiking north, down 2,700 feet in elevation to the next shelter to get the hell out of this cold and snow." ... and that began one of my favorite days on the trail.

The trails were streams of icy water, which was super soothing on my plantar fasciitis, twenty miles downhill, and I just zoomed along feeling great, occasionally pausing to shake the snow off the umbrella. By the time I got to the bottom of the mountain it was a sunny warm spring day. It was a personal best for mileage and I felt great. The Davenport shelter was empty, and had a chain link fence across it to keep the bears out, and that creeped me out just a bit, so I pushed on another three miles and made it to the Standing Bear Farm hostel, which was kind of glorious.

It's not that I was laughing at the people stuck in the shelter, but I did feel a bit bad for the ones who managed to convince Chloe to stay in that crowded shelter.

TLDR version: Elevation matters, then again cold can gather in a hollow, so choose your tent site with care at night.

[garlic08]

At Newfound Gap in the Smokies, my hiking partner and I, each carrying a base weight of under ten pounds, continued hiking comfortably in blizzard conditions, while van loads of traditionally-weighted shivering hikers were bailing out into Gatlinburg. As a bonus, we had Ice Water Spring shelter and the next day in the Smokies all to ourselves.

I always say, experience trumps what you carry, and that the amount of gear a person carries has very little impact on that person's comfort in adverse conditions.

Experience will tell you that the best thing to do in the morning is put on those cold wet clothes, knowing that they're only that cold for a few minutes, but you've saved your dry layer for the next night.

It will tell you under what conditions you can safely dry some clothing in your sleeping bag with you. You can even dry some under your sleeping pad. Just a dry pair of socks, gloves, and a hat is a wonderful thing some mornings.

It will tell you how to keep your shoes (or water bottle) from freezing overnight.

It will tell you not to wear your puffy down layer under your rain jacket while climbing.

It will tell you to take advantage of a ten-minute sun break to dry things out, even a little.

And it will tell you when to give up, find shelter, make a fire, bail out, etc.

"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

[ldsailor]

My post really wasn't shooting for embrace the suck sort of replies. It was aimed to get specific gear choices that folks have used.

Besides hiking, I have done a lot of blue water sailing. My boat foul weather gear keeps me warm and dry. The problem is - IT'S HEAVY! I thought about packing it for my first LASH and quickly set it aside for rain gear, which weighed in the ounces not pounds (Columbia Omni-Tech). Thus cold, wet, shivering and a couple of bouts of near hypothermia tend to be the norm. I stopped packing rain pants - worthless.

[Tipi Walter]

It was crowded, noisy, and one guy kept us all awake. There were about 18 of us packed in with another 18 expected to arrive with reservations that night.

Ranger Chloe arrived and she just took charge like a boss (in a good way.)

This sounds much worse than hiking all day in a butt cold rain and getting hypothermia. It sounds like recess at an elementary school and the teacher has to come out to restore order.

[MuddyWaters]

This sounds much worse than hiking all day in a butt cold rain and getting hypothermia. It sounds like recess at an elementary school and the teacher has to come out to restore order.
Obviously, gsmnp recognizes thru experience, the tendency of AT thru hikers to not want to walk in cold and wet.

Problem is....its not an option . You are required to keep moving.


Ive hiked in cold rain where couldnt stay warm. Couldnt generate heat. Shivering while hiking as fast as can. you can feel the cold rain your shoulders sap heat out of you, numb hands, and icy water runs down inside of jacket.

Staying just one step ahead of the cold monster, and knowing when to stop and get sheltered before too late is key. You get colder fast once stop walking. Hands may be nonfunctional by time get shelter up.

More than one person has discovered hard way cold fingers cant work lighters, and cold lighters dont work anyway.

[Tipi Walter]

Ive hiked in cold rain where couldnt stay warm. Couldnt generate heat. Shivering while hiking as fast as can. you can feel the cold rain your shoulders sap heat out of you, numb hands, and icy water runs down inside of jacket.

Staying just one step ahead of the cold monster, and knowing when to stop and get sheltered before too late is key. You get colder fast once stop walking. Hands may be nonfunctional by time get shelter up.

More than one person has discovered hard way cold fingers cant work lighters, and cold lighters dont work anyway.

Despite what Garlic08 says, this has been my experience too. Garlic08 says---

I always say, experience trumps what you carry, and that the amount of gear a person carries has very little impact on that person's comfort in adverse conditions.
I guess we are lacking in experience---me and MuddyWaters---and others---cuz we sure at times shiver and get cold and get wet and get numb hands and we are "staying just one step ahead of the cold monster."

But Garlic08 does admit---

And it will tell you when to give up, find shelter, make a fire, bail out, etc.

[Puddlefish]

This sounds much worse than hiking all day in a butt cold rain and getting hypothermia. It sounds like recess at an elementary school and the teacher has to come out to restore order.

Yeah, pretty much, as I'm not a fan of shelters. At least she showed up early in the morning, which gave people plenty of time to get elsewhere. I figure 70% of the hikers were younger and in better shape than me, it wasn't like she booted them into dangerous conditions. It was a a nice warm snow, with the big fluffy flakes falling straight down. Practically balmy once the temp rose above freezing. I thought she was great, I've no idea what the folks who wanted to stay thought about her.

[Deadeye]

My post really wasn't shooting for embrace the suck sort of replies. It was aimed to get specific gear choices that folks have used.

A bigger umbrella. Sounds crazy, but your breathable rain gear works a lot better if you keep most of the rain off it.

[Dogwood]

Umbrella question. Skurka suggests using an umbrella in warm/hot temps b/c of ventilation. How does a small trail umbrella keep your upper torso even remotely dry if it's a wind-whipped rain?
https://www.barefootjake.com/2014/04/golite-chrome-dome-vs-sea-to-summit.html



https://3.bp.blogspot.com/E0U-MDCc3fiXi1eFhzB7-dpcrirWimXsOPDomAKRT9ULTxTw1aBeHmrRVqOcpELu2agAA-jrIMPsjYjz_i2PI1FHm4xV4tn5LK_n7mxGn7ok9tc9GRnj844c Py6JRQie31HDPyaR7-hsjy4YtJe2I8Lu9VbmY0MVF9h4PGKcF0Kna28nXKvUa0FZ_X9a rMwlbPxa_c68DHP1w-XcNXj6wclhFNUu_A9w-p9uHI1XGlTacAOShP79cZGSMWNN_7FWgHbR-btYmzRR4ksg2GytlV92jiAZLzMKZ5G27l00r8BT2JhtRRxLDWg B9mbQoRCJ5U94vy6_NqfKfjj36FZ3LsgQe55yauz4cpp6sja1E GUR-yce32l6kB9h-eOGV-d958tMT6xuoANTEXVCxRyenVycQ3tYspKuXrKOONiBvqTanjmD SutE6DS8efQkNknfgT-Tt733xCdorJjyFGah2YpBcLLkoFXdtBbzU5jImu_M9DVyiJLxV XNqYVr1YEh5PSAj-hSdFEaGanXyhKrsSIwwr82xI5n131zks7BIriUgrFc93283PIB S6FEEIjk3evoXgK_hT53pXJsywlm-8OTQQ0Cb3SJJLPf8Q2xxjkq8ihq4efjE=w477-h358-no?pageId=103622214447286582293
They are standing in the trail.


https://i0.wp.com/www.hikeradventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Olympic_Flooded_Trail1.jpg?resize=610%2C457

[CalebJ]

That looks like my hike in PA last spring. Spent all day walking in standing water on the trail in mid 50's and pouring rain. I was definitely underdressed for the occasion.

[Dogwood]

It is NOT the cold rain that produces low grade hypothermia. It is the hiker that allows it to happen. Cold rain is just another set of conditions to address.


Addressing wet and cold or butt arse cold is also about awarenesses, experiences, and skill sets...beyond gear. The idea that gear, more gear, the "right" gear, is needed to solve all issues is a fallacy!


Barefoot Jake is a good example of one who hikes on the Olympic Peninsula basically yr round in sun, cold rain, sometimes sleet, and snow. Andrew is another one with an UL style on trips across AK or Sea to Sea Route through winter and cold wet conditions. It's not just about more gear or heavier gear. They are both ULers melding their awarenesses, experiences, and skill sets with gear. It's not just about more gear or heavier gear.


We more often have to soberly separate the gear from the user arriving at conclusions.

[lonehiker]

Some days just suck.

[Tipi Walter]

Gear is gear---you either have it or don't. For those coming into camp shivering and soaked in a 35F rainstorm with wooden hands it's vital you have enough gear to stay alive---like a tent/shelter and warm clothing after you strip off the wet. There's a general tendency to discount "Gear" as if it's a dirty word---or anyone relying on "gear" is a rank newbie or just plain inexperienced.

Barefoot Jake takes an umbrella---that's a piece of gear. Skurka when he did his Arctic quest in 2010 had a big gear list---See it here---

https://26ebru3fogag2ce2bw4a6246-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/gearlists_alaska-yukon.pdf

Study that for a while. His shelter was a MLD Solomid tent. He brought a Golite 0F bag. And an Alpacka packraft. Oh and a Golite Pinnacle pack.

Years ago I read thru this report and most remember him having to pull a 14 or 17 day section without food resupply and guess what? His pack approached almost 60 lbs for that section.

[Dogwood]

It's not just gear that is vital to staying alive. All that material stuff/GEAR means less to nothing if the owner doesn't know how to use it AND having experiences, awarenesses, and skills BEYOND the gear.

Sure BFJ and Andrew have detailed gear lists. That's the way they are - thinking, adjusting, adapting, always evolving, ACCURATE in their kit wts and pre and post hike analysis! Neither is in the habit of coming into "camp" shivering and soaked in 35* rains terms with wooden hands!


It may be easier Tipi to recognize the vital importance of experiences, awarenesses, and skill sets as an UL or more minimalist all season hiker.

[Dogwood]

I do indeed believe Newbs rely more on gear and trail infrastructure than their generally more limited awarenesses, experiences, and skill sets. Absolutely!

[Hosh]

[QUOTE=Tipi

Years ago I read thru this report and most remember him having to pull a 14 or 17 day section without food resupply and guess what? His pack approached almost 60 lbs for that section.[/QUOTE]

And guess what, he was averaging 20+ miles far, far away from any roads rather than “squatting” 2 miles from the nearest road averaging 2 miles per day

[Tipi Walter]

Sure BFJ and Andrew have detailed gear lists. Neither is in the habit of coming into "camp" shivering and soaked in 35* rains terms with wooden hands!


This statement is incredible. And why do you quote "camp" as if "coming into camp" is problematic or perhaps not something they ever do?? Why put quotes around the word?

And what makes this statement incredible is there's no real proof that either of these guys never came into "camp" shivering and soaked with wooden hands. I'd like to see some indication that these backpackers never got soaked in a 35F rain and never shivered.

[Tipi Walter]

And guess what, he was averaging 20+ miles far, far away from any roads rather than “squatting” 2 miles from the nearest road averaging 2 miles per day

So all backpackers should be endurance athletes with high mile days?

[CalebJ]

Certainly not, but it does change the conversation and individual requirements/perspectives/experience on the discussion at hand.

[Tipi Walter]

Each year around this time I watch AT thru hike videos in which folks are flat out miserable because they are wet and cold after hiking through hours of rain. This got me wondering whether the fact that lots of people are trying carry less weight meant they don't have the "perfect" equipment for the conditions, or no matter what stuff they had, they'd still be cold and miserable.

So is there a way to hike on the AT in the colder months in hours of rain and be "fine" with the weather because you had the right gear choices? Would you need to carry 5lbs more? Multiple rain jackets....tops...etc?

Just curious.


Certainly not, but it does change the conversation and individual requirements/perspectives/experience on the discussion at hand.

The OP started with a simple question---as above.

To Recap---
** Embrace the suck.
** Hunker in camp if desired.
** Bail into town.
** Putting cold wet clothing on in the morning.
** Cold rain at 35F becomes 20F by morning (frozen zippers etc)
** Carry rain jacket and ran pants for warmth while moving.
** Gear is useful---along with experience.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Each year around this time I watch AT thru hike videos in which folks are flat out miserable because they are wet and cold after hiking through hours of rain. This got me wondering whether the fact that lots of people are trying carry less weight meant they don't have the "perfect" equipment for the conditions, or no matter what stuff they had, they'd still be cold and miserable.

So is there a way to hike on the AT in the colder months in hours of rain and be "fine" with the weather because you had the right gear choices? Would you need to carry 5lbs more? Multiple rain jackets....tops...etc?

Just curious.No. There's no way to hike the AT for any period of time in the rain and stay dry. You're either going to get from rain or perspiration. If it's cold as well, you're going to get cold and wet at times. You either learn to deal with it, part "embracing the suck", part technique and skill and gear, or you bail out. It's one of the biggest reasons people abandon thru-hikes. The trail is not just harder than most envision, it's wetter and colder in March and April. If you slog through that, summer brings the hot and humid, which is different suck to embrace. You either embrace all the suck with the good, or you don't. It's not for everybody. Actually, it's not for most. Even most hikers.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

This statement is incredible. And why do you quote "camp" as if "coming into camp" is problematic or perhaps not something they ever do?? Why put quotes around the word?

And what makes this statement incredible is there's no real proof that either of these guys never came into "camp" shivering and soaked with wooden hands. I'd like to see some indication that these backpackers never got soaked in a 35F rain and never shivered.


So all backpackers should be endurance athletes with high mile days?


You're reading more into it than was ever intended. :)
I continue to stand on this statement, "I do indeed believe Newbs rely more on gear and trail infrastructure than their generally more limited awarenesses, experiences, and skill sets. Absolutely!"

Tipi you even say it with AT thrus. The minute foul weather hits most rush into the town vortex or to the rat(mice) box AT shelters. Most AT thrus are Newbs to LD backpacking! For you, and no disrespect intended, with your typical well documented approach, is you rely heavily on gear, lots of gear, and camping as a significant part of addressing foul weather. Totally respect what you do even though that might not be a routine approach for myself. There's nothing wrong with that approach but it is not the approach of all, just as all don't approach backpacking as endurance athletes with high MPD avgs or hike across AK using UL kits. Differences are a good thing! :)


With cold and wet conditions everyone isn't in the habit of heading into town or camp! Cold and wet outside doesn't necessitate being a cold and wet person.


One day were going to meet on trail. We're going to sit down and have a bunch of laughs picking on each other's idiosyncrasies. Might even bum some watermelon or avocado and I'll offer some dehydrated H2O. :D

[Game Warden]

The rain came down and down. The trail became a creek, and I hopped and hobbled along the huckleberries and mountain laurel that bordered the submerged path, until I realized I would get just as wet wading through the shin-deep waters, which I did. Then I saw a hunting camp with a covered porch, and decided it was lunchtime, despite being 10:30 AM. As my pot boiled, I discovered that God had left a large bath towel on the porch of this hunting camp, along with a bottle of dog shampoo. I stripped down, toweled off with the bath towel, and picked long tan hairs off me (Lab retriever?) Anyone driving down the nearby road would have had an unforgettable glimpse of my bare middle-aged ass. An hour later, dry and fed, I shouldered my pack and walked off into the dripping woods. And that is the Zen of backpacking.

[MuddyWaters]

The rain came down and down. The trail became a creek, and I hopped and hobbled along the huckleberries and mountain laurel that bordered the submerged path, until I realized I would get just as wet wading through the shin-deep waters, which I did. Then I saw a hunting camp with a covered porch, and decided it was lunchtime, despite being 10:30 AM. As my pot boiled, I discovered that God had left a large bath towel on the porch of this hunting camp, along with a bottle of dog shampoo. I stripped down, toweled off with the bath towel, and picked long tan hairs off me (Lab retriever?) Anyone driving down the nearby road would have had an unforgettable glimpse of my bare middle-aged ass. An hour later, dry and fed, I shouldered my pack and walked off into the dripping woods. And that is the Zen of backpacking.

Some would just call it trespassing :)...

[Marta]

To speak to the original question about clothing and gear...

There are base layers that are warm when wet. Wool tends to be. Some micro fleece is.

During my SOBO in '06, finishing in early January, I wore a micro fleece top and tights, day and night. If I got wet during the day because it rained all day, I'd wring out as much water as I could, then get into my sleeping bag as soon as I stopped hiking for the day, before my metabolism started to slow and I started to cool off. I ate a lot of hot food, and drank hot tea. I wore a hat that was warm even when wet. I had a pair of fleece socks that I kept dry, and put on before getting in the sleeping bag.

Clothing layers:
*micro fleece turtleneck and tights
*full fleece jacket and pants
*Montane wind jacket and pants, which are breathable but not waterproof
*silnylon jacket and rain pants
*Neoprene cycling gloves
*Rag wool fingerless gloves, with separate wool caps to turn them into mittens.
*A pair of silnylon long, skinny bags to use over hands or feet to keep them warm. One can use a couple of plastic bags instead.

Yes, I'd get wet during all-day rain storms, but I kept warm. My base layers would dry on my body during the night.