View Full Version : Protein diet vs gout
I am a section hiker recently diagnosed with gout, a form of arthritis that results from too much protein that forms uric acid crytals which create joint swelling/pain/etc.
Doc prescribed allopurinol; daily dose to control uric acid levels to inhibit relapse.
What are ya'lls' thoughts on protein needs over a 2 week section hike vs the risk of relapse?
Anyone else out there dancing with gout but still hiking?
This may be misplaced in "General"; perhaps we need an "Old Foggies" forum?
I don't suffer from it, however the doctor should have advised you on some items to avoid. Alcohol is a big one. Anything high in iron (no liver).
And exercise/walking is encouraged. Joints are painful, but moving them helps flush the acid.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/315732.php
(https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/315732.php)
I have been on allopurinol for several years with no relapses and no issues at all with hikes. You need to have blood tests once a year to monitor your uric acid levels (and kidney functionality)- but for the most part you can put it in the "take the medicine and forget about it" category.
Two Tents
08-19-2019, 13:58
Beans and wine were triggers for me at first. Then years later I no longer was able to drink beer without a flare. Then red meat. Then mushrooms. You need to learn what your food is that causes flares. Allopurinol does work. Cherries are a natural remedy also.
So what was the time delay between eating the catalyst and having the symptoms?
Mountain Mike
08-19-2019, 20:32
I've been dealing with it for years without daily medication. I prefer diet & exercise. A few things I have found out: Exercise is the most important! The more active I am the more I can cheat on my diet with no effect. Also water quality Also something not mentioned as far as I know is water quality. I noticed symptoms when my diet hadn't changed but the water source did. When they had a high calcium or limestone content, it caused a painful but not completely debilitating reaction.
While hiking I find water quality about the best you can get. For food I avoid beef & pork. As I said before being active allows me some cheats. When working a homestaed I would even have a few beers a day if I was chopping wood. Something that when less active would be a trigger for me.
I would question the idea that eating meat causes gout. What else are you eating?
Actually a lot of vegetarians get gout, and there is a connection with sugar.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/side-effects/gout
Turtle-2013
08-20-2019, 07:48
Good Morning,
No one responded to your question "What are ya'lls' thoughts on protein needs over a 2 week section hike vs the risk of relapse?"
I can't respond specifically to gout based on personal experience ... but ... since you are likely to be eating a higher carb diet on the trail anyway, and exercising a great deal ... the chance of a relapse while hiking is at least less likely. Note that the Article the RocDoc posted the link to is a vegetarian "low-carb" diet. Lower carb, hence higher protein is the issue whether you are a vegan or not.
It is pretty easy to control excessive protein intake while hiking. In my experience, it is easy to be on a lower protein, higher carb diet on the trail than the reverse.
Also ... the real reason I'm responding is that since you are a section hiker ... unless you are VERY SLENDER ... specific diet is far less important on the trail than for a thru hiker. You can easily avoid anything that might be a problem, even eat a highly unbalanced diet, and you will be off the trail before there are real effects. If you are like me and carry a few extra pounds, you can even eat light, and live a bit off the "fat of the land" (that is the fat you are carrying in your body), without suffering any negative effects.
Basically ... don't over think it ... get on the trail and walk ... eat the foods that are easy to carry, avoiding obvious triggers ... and have fun. It will be the best possible combination towards getting your body back on track....
Turtyl
Good Morning,
No one responded to your question "What are ya'lls' thoughts on protein needs over a 2 week section hike vs the risk of relapse?"
I can't respond specifically to gout based on personal experience ... but ... since you are likely to be eating a higher carb diet on the trail anyway, and exercising a great deal ... the chance of a relapse while hiking is at least less likely. Note that the Article the RocDoc posted the link to is a vegetarian "low-carb" diet. Lower carb, hence higher protein is the issue whether you are a vegan or not.
It is pretty easy to control excessive protein intake while hiking. In my experience, it is easy to be on a lower protein, higher carb diet on the trail than the reverse.
Also ... the real reason I'm responding is that since you are a section hiker ... unless you are VERY SLENDER ... specific diet is far less important on the trail than for a thru hiker. You can easily avoid anything that might be a problem, even eat a highly unbalanced diet, and you will be off the trail before there are real effects. If you are like me and carry a few extra pounds, you can even eat light, and live a bit off the "fat of the land" (that is the fat you are carrying in your body), without suffering any negative effects.
Basically ... don't over think it ... get on the trail and walk ... eat the foods that are easy to carry, avoiding obvious triggers ... and have fun. It will be the best possible combination towards getting your body back on track....
Turtyl
Best response yet, other than ask your doctor.
I have been on allopurinol for several years with no relapses and no issues at all with hikes. You need to have blood tests once a year to monitor your uric acid levels (and kidney functionality)- but for the most part you can put it in the "take the medicine and forget about it" category.
+1 on the above. I've also been on allopurinol for a while with no relapses. I also carry indomethacin and colcrys against flareups but couldn't tell you the last time that I needed them.
I eat rather indiscriminately while on the trail but agree it is a lower protein/higher carb diet; avoid your known triggers. I also agree that exercise helps.
Don't just take advice from here, my professional engineering opinion ( for what it's worth ) is to consult your doctor.
For those who had gout; I have no idea what my triggers are. It would help to know the expected delay between intake of the "trigger" and onset of the symptoms. What is the average in those of you that have/had gout and the onset?? That could help me figure out what triggers me. . . . ! I hope the answer isn't "it differs with everyone . . .".
It differs with everybody. < Sorry >
Try to keep track of what you eat. Intentionally inflict yourself to confirm?
Its been so long that I don’t remember what triggered me. So long as it’s not Klondike’s, Little Debby and cheese balls, I’m ok.
Two Tents
08-20-2019, 17:11
For those who had gout; I have no idea what my triggers are. It would help to know the expected delay between intake of the "trigger" and onset of the symptoms. What is the average in those of you that have/had gout and the onset?? That could help me figure out what triggers me. . . . ! I hope the answer isn't "it differs with everyone . . .".
I know and learned that beans are a major cause for me. Eat baked beans and three days later I have full on gout.
So to summarize the above . . . I guess I will hope the allopurinol will curb the gout and back off on the protein for a little more carb just to hedge my bet.
Can I have a "Amen" from the audience?? or did I miss the mark??
Smooth & Wasabi
08-24-2019, 06:51
I question the protein cause, my go doctors recommendation was much more nuanced than that. Google gout diet to see trigger foods. For me it is a problem of accumulation over time. Alcohol, shellfish, cured/organ meats (hotdogs,pepperoni,salami), and sugar. Dehydration seems to be a trigger as well. I have quit sugar, lessened beer, and am keep in mind other triggers.
As was said don’t worry too much about protein on trail. I try to get mine with nuts mostly and go light on jerky and cured meets. Carrying indomethacin is a great idea for flare ups it acts fairly quickly. I have not had a flare up on trail but have run through them and it was bearable.
Feral Bill
08-26-2019, 12:49
You could ask your actual doctor, who knows your medical history.
Yes, ask your doctor, who may or may not know about gout, but writes a mean prescription...
Then watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSCo_yPnpJE&feature=youtu.be Gout - Is it Meat or METABOLIC SYNDROME?
By a lady who knows a lot about gout.
Hint: It's insulin messing with your kidneys.
garlic08
09-29-2019, 09:10
I don't suffer from it, however the doctor should have advised you on some items to avoid. Alcohol is a big one. Anything high in iron (no liver).
I agree I have general distrust of doctors' prescriptions. It seems like it's easier to add a pill to a patient's messed-up diet/life than to work on correcting the actual problem.
Many of our illnesses can be solved by removing something from our diet. Yet the first thing we want to do (or are told to do) is add something to it.
Excuse the brief rant. I agree protein needs on a two-week hike shouldn't be a concern. Find your triggers and avoid them.
My long distance hiking spouse has battled rheumatoid arthritis for over thirty years without pills.
Wise Old Owl
09-29-2019, 20:30
So to summarize the above . . . I guess I will hope the allopurinol will curb the gout and back off on the protein for a little more carb just to hedge my bet.
Can I have a "Amen" from the audience?? or did I miss the mark?? I have had gout for a couple of years.
allopurinol was helpful in preventing flare ups. Your Doctor can prescribe Colchicine what appears to be made from a natural crocus bulb/plant that can reverse the crystals in your joints. You have to follow the instructions as this will tear up your small intestine, but the benefit will make life so much better. Once on Allopurinol after this treatment, you can go back to your previous foods and beer sparingly.
simplysql
10-01-2019, 08:27
I've had gout for awhile - was on allopurinol for many years - ended up losing a ton of weight and that solved a lot of my gout problems - I get minor attacks maybe 2 times per year, but haven't had a major attack in many years. To answer a couple of earlier questions - triggers - for me, it wasn't ALL meat, but fatty meat - I can eat a NY strip without issue, but a ribeye would always cause a flareup. Also some shell fish - mussels in particular were bad for me. Pork, like pulled pork -in large quantities, on occasion as well. Time from trigger to actual flareup - for me, it ALWAYS hit in the middle of the night. I'd eat, for example, a ribeye for dinner - and wake up around midnight or 1AM with my foot on fire. Bad thing about gout, is once you get an attack, it's too late to do anything about it. I tried every kind of pain killer known to Man and had zero success - only thing that worked for me was the passage of time. It's a terrible ailment! I do agree, lots of exercise will usually cut you some slack on triggers. Good luck!
I too have been diagnosed with gout, but I haven't had a major flair up in years. The key for me, at least, has been to immediately consume an excess of water when I notice a twinge of pain in one of my big toes. Staying well hydrated dilutes the uric acid, helping the kidneys do their job more effectively. I'm not saying you will stop a major flair up in its tracks by consuming water, but I feel that it helps to stop a minor flair up from becoming a major one.
As far as I can tell, my main trigger is processed meats. Anything with added nitrates/nitrites is a big no in my diet now. Steaks (ribeye or strip) and burgers are still in, occasionally.
greenmtnboy
10-04-2019, 18:35
Off the AT I would adopt a diet friendly to the liver, kidneys, etc.. There are many herbs that help the system be healthier; I would take charge of your health and research causes and remedies of your condition. Fresh squeezed lemons are very good. Astringent foods and herbs help. I would do dried fruit, raw nuts and similar spare foods, you don't need that much protein in your diet anyway. Ben Franklin and many notable people who ate rich foods were afflicted by it.
you don't need that much protein in your diet anyway.
OK replace our ancestral high protein diet with carbs and sugar and see where that gets you.... Insulin resistance, T2D, and more.
As you age you need to increase protein in your diet or you will suffer from sarcopenia. We experience 10% muscle loss/decade. Carbs are merely energy, whereas protein is what you are made of. Get it while you can.
bkflex55
10-04-2019, 20:17
Are you an actual doctor? Ancestral High protein diet? You fully bought into Gary Taubes??
I've had 2 bouts of Gout in the past and went on Allopurinol many years ago. When I thru-hiked I went off it and didn't have a problem.
Not saying you shouldn't take your meds but I just didn't feel like dealing with prescriptions while hiking and it worked for me.
Yes, I'm an actual doctor (Ph.D.). Most medical "doctors' lack that degree BTW (M.D. stands for "Medical Deity").
If you dispute our ancestral evolutionary history I'd like to hear from you. Educate us please. Or are you unable to do more than throw verbal assaults at people you don't know, about things you don't understand?
I agree I have general distrust of doctors' prescriptions. It seems like it's easier to add a pill to a patient's messed-up diet/life than to work on correcting the actual problem.
Many of our illnesses can be solved by removing something from our diet. Yet the first thing we want to do (or are told to do) is add something to it.
Excuse the brief rant. I agree protein needs on a two-week hike shouldn't be a concern. Find your triggers and avoid them.
My long distance hiking spouse has battled rheumatoid arthritis for over thirty years without pills.
Several popular OTC and scripts trigger gout. Blood pressure meds are associated with gout. Immunosuppressants are associated. Often mainstream western M.D.'s, as bright as they may be, are knee jerk habituated to adding another script, often a OTC NSAID or other anti inflammatory script, as a symptom easier. Dehydration can trigger gout. Obesity has been linked to gout. Popular as a sweetener, HFCS has been linked to gout - SUGAR. High triglycerides are associated with gout. Diabetics are more prone to gout. Heart and kidney malfunctioning(diseases) cause gout. Those on chemotherapy can have high uric acid levels. ALCOHOL, especially beer is a trigger. It is not always an excess of protein and purines and salicylate. It's not just meat which many associate with protein. Certain produce can trigger gout. It may be the metabolizing of what is commonly not that great an issue. Maybe, working with your M.D., do a foods high in purines or salicylate evaluation purge and see which situations including diet combos most influence gout personally. Aspirin is a salicylate. Arriving at gout is not always so clear cut as might be assumed. It may be something in your diet triggers you personally putting you more at risk. This is yet another arthritic pro inflammatory condition that should be thought of and diagnosed holistically rather then with a always a silver bullet approach?
I disagree that you absolutely will not be bothered over a two wk hike. There are various causalities and triggers that can be the consequence of a two wk trip. Hydration being one. Body over use another.
Consider 70% of all U.S. citizens are in in some state of dehydration WHEN HITTING THE TH. This can be made worse on trail.
If you're not receiving this info from your current M.D.'(s) perhaps it's time to seek diagnosis and treatment elsewhere. It may be you may not have to manage gout but eliminate it - be done with it - be RECOVERED...not eternally recovering!!! :banana