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View Full Version : Anyone know why the ATC's new 1st female Pres./CEO Suzanne Dixon resigned abruptly?



crazylegs76
08-28-2019, 09:28
Been catching up on the summer's events and noticed that after only 22.5 months of service Ms. Dixon is leaving the ATC. Weird she wouldn't make it a round 2 years. (Her predecessor Ron Tipton went 4 years.) She also departs after much fanfare surrounding her arrival to continue her career. By contrast only a few sentences mention her replacement Ms. Marra in the announcement of her departure. She's also taking leave before her departure to be with family. And not ease the transition? The only thing that stands out to me is that the announcement came just 2 months after her rousing AT Strong speech at Trail Days in the wake of the tragedy. I was there and she didn't seem like a leader just days away from giving up her position.

crazylegs76
08-28-2019, 11:38
http://appalachiantrail.org/home/community/news/2019/07/22/appalachian-trail-conservancy-announces-departure-of-president-and-chief-executive-officer-suzanne-dixon-appoints-sandra-marra-to-replace-her

One Half
08-28-2019, 13:55
people have lives and families and some times the job they have has to take a back seat to something else.

crazylegs76
08-28-2019, 14:14
people have lives and families and some times the job they have has to take a back seat to something else.

Right. But this isn't a job as the GM at an Applebee's. Usually when one signs on to be the president and CEO of a major organization like the ATC there's an expectation as part of the hiring process that there be a 3-5 year commitment. Especially an outside hire where a search was conducted. Dixon spent 20 years at her last job and intends to continue her career. In the big scheme of things 22.5 months is sticking your head in the door - hell it takes about a year to master a new gig like that. I wondered if it had something to do with the recent tragedy as her sudden, and apparently unexpected departure, comes directly on its heels.

FrogLevel
08-28-2019, 20:12
How could she or anyone in the ATC have prevented the incident on trail?

I'd bet she found a better or higher paying job. There's no point in having loyalty to your employers these days so I don't blame her if that's the case.

4eyedbuzzard
08-28-2019, 20:28
Or, maybe she wasn't doing as good a job as the directors wanted? There were some minor deficiencies in their latest audit, but most organizations have a few, so I doubt that's it. FWIW, ATC isn't what I'd call a "major organization". It has about $10 million / year in revenue. Monetarily, maybe 1/3 the size of AMC, 1/20 the size of Sierra club. But, the scope of the asset management part (the AT and corridor) is a huge public trust. CEO/President pay for her predecessor, Tipton, was about $200K. A nice income, but not exactly Wall Street money either. If you read her profile on linkedin.com most of her prior jobs seemed more focused on fundraising/development than trust management. Also, her replacement, Sandra Marra, is/was her boss - the Chairman of the Board of ATC. So, maybe the boards' vision wasn't being carried out to their satisfaction. Or maybe she just wasn't a good fit. Or she got a better job. Or she wants to thru-hike and her crummy employer wouldn't give her a leave of absence ;) Could be anything.

gpburdelljr
08-28-2019, 20:36
Right. But this isn't a job as the GM at an Applebee's. Usually when one signs on to be the president and CEO of a major organization like the ATC there's an expectation as part of the hiring process that there be a 3-5 year commitment. Especially an outside hire where a search was conducted. Dixon spent 20 years at her last job and intends to continue her career. In the big scheme of things 22.5 months is sticking your head in the door - hell it takes about a year to master a new gig like that. I wondered if it had something to do with the recent tragedy as her sudden, and apparently unexpected departure, comes directly on its heels.

In post #11 of the following thread, it was pointed out that of the 8 president/CEOs in ATC history, only 3 have lasted more than 2 years. So this is not unusual.

https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/134434-Suzanne-Dixon?highlight=Suzanne+dixon

Lone Wolf
08-28-2019, 20:38
so if it was a male ceo that resigned after 22 months would you question it?

Crossup
08-28-2019, 21:13
I got an ear full on this topic from a person who works at the mid Atlantic ATC office and the gist was she was not a good fit for the job and vice versa. It sounded like the organization needed someone to keep it on course rather than to change direction.

crazylegs76
08-28-2019, 22:37
[QUOTE=FrogLevel;2253917]How could she or anyone in the ATC have prevented the incident on trail?

I think this was the preventable incident that would have got lots of folks terminated for so many reasons that are obvious it isn't worth listing them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckPGLGZt_4A

crazylegs76
08-28-2019, 22:40
Or, maybe she wasn't doing as good a job as the directors wanted? There were some minor deficiencies in their latest audit, but most organizations have a few, so I doubt that's it. FWIW, ATC isn't what I'd call a "major organization". It has about $10 million / year in revenue. Monetarily, maybe 1/3 the size of AMC, 1/20 the size of Sierra club. But, the scope of the asset management part (the AT and corridor) is a huge public trust. CEO/President pay for her predecessor, Tipton, was about $200K. A nice income, but not exactly Wall Street money either. If you read her profile on linkedin.com most of her prior jobs seemed more focused on fundraising/development than trust management. Also, her replacement, Sandra Marra, is/was her boss - the Chairman of the Board of ATC. So, maybe the boards' vision wasn't being carried out to their satisfaction. Or maybe she just wasn't a good fit. Or she got a better job. Or she wants to thru-hike and her crummy employer wouldn't give her a leave of absence ;) Could be anything.

You're only talking about the transparent non-profit and not the for-profit sister company where the real cash is. Look closer.

crazylegs76
08-28-2019, 22:55
so if it was a male ceo that resigned after 22 months would you question it?

Yes. And if it were a male the ATC wouldn't have trumpeted his gender at their press release when he took the job as if gender mattered. Because we're all equal. Right? Of course Ron Tipton lasted for 2 years and 2 months longer than a female much his junior who wasn't apparently up to snuff. What are we to learn from this? Are we all indeed equal?

I think this was an ATC fumble and the completely inappropriate 'AT Strong' speech Dixon gave from the roof of the very bus used to carry the killer closer to his victims is emblematic of a history of poor judgement from a now skipperless ship with a broke rudder and no compass. Not to mention that ancient shuttle has no seats or seatbelts and is used to plug a business that Dixon plugged while exonerating the boob who gave aid and comfort to an enemy of hikers. If I was Stronghold's folks I'd puke at seeing that!

Question "authority"!

crazylegs76
08-28-2019, 22:56
I got an ear full on this topic from a person who works at the mid Atlantic ATC office and the gist was she was not a good fit for the job and vice versa. It sounded like the organization needed someone to keep it on course rather than to change direction.

Well, looks like someone knows how to answer a question without a question! Thank you. That's what I thought.

4eyedbuzzard
08-28-2019, 23:14
You're only talking about the transparent non-profit and not the for-profit sister company where the real cash is. Look closer.Look where? I've read ATC's (and others) financial statements and irs 990's for many years. There are corporate partners/sponsors which generate revenue to ATC, bit I know of no for profit ATC entity. I really don't think there's a deep state conspiracy here.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

crazylegs76
08-28-2019, 23:16
https://www.facebook.com/thehikeryearbook/videos/316980278959984/

https://www.facebook.com/thehikeryearbook/videos/328914744447509/

Traveler
08-29-2019, 06:46
Ah well, Facebook orations. Who can argue with that.

madgoat
08-29-2019, 07:46
For a community of people who talk of quitting their jobs to pursue their dream of hiking the trail, it seems silly of us to worry too much about somebody who decided they didn't like their job enough to stay at it, or had other life circumstances that required her to take a step back.

I have thought a bit about that recently as Andrew Luck retired from the Colts. Yeah, I was a tad disappointed (as a colts fan) but he is now going to go do what he wants to do. The fact that thousands of people wear his jersey and are devoutly loyal to the company he used to work for has no bearing on the fact that he didn't want to do that job anymore.

crazylegs76
08-29-2019, 09:37
[QUOTE=madgoat;2253943]For a community of people who talk of quitting their jobs to pursue their dream of hiking the trail, it seems silly of us to worry too much about somebody who decided they didn't like their job enough to stay at it, or had other life circumstances that required her to take a step back.

I think the bigger issue is not Dixon's career arc, but that this is emblematic of the trail's governing entity, the somewhat grandiosely self-proclaimed Guardians Of The Trail, again rejecting change. Which is a disturbing move considering how fast and how much the trail has changed in the just the last ten to twenty years. Especially surrounding the remarkable impact of skyrocketing use numbers. Dixon was an outside hire who had been the senior director of the National Parks Conservation Association. That she should be rejected by the ATC, or vice versa, should be an alarm bell for hikers and donors alike. I'm reminded of the time my grandparents hired a contractor who told them they needed a new roof and they fired him, only to let it rain in their attic for another year before getting a new roof. Dixon's replacement Marra seems like a return of the matronly old guard from within, instead of a fresh young voice and perspective from without. While Dixon's hamhanded and insensitive handling of the Trail Days Knute Rockne from the roof of a profit seekers murder accessory now makes more sense when you consider that it was likely the last personal act of rebellion from someone who had either just quit, just been fired, or a combo of each. At any rate, Sandra Marra won't be climbing onto any vehicles to give rousing speeches to the teeming multitudes! It appears she won't be climbing any mountains either. The ATC dumped a young avid conservationist and outdoorsperson for an old bean counting lunch lady. Great.

ldsailor
08-29-2019, 11:24
I commented on this topic in another thread and I was castigated for it as being a purveyor of "speculation." It's interesting to see this thread with a lot of speculation, so I'm going to repeat what I said before. She was pushed out. I've seen it before through decades of working for corporations and all the earmarks are there. They quickly replaced her with a board member and although her employment was to continue until the end of this month, the new CEO is in place and has been for some time.

IMHO Crossup is spot on target.

imscotty
08-29-2019, 11:59
45613

Has PilgramSW raised his ugly head yet again?

Crossup
08-29-2019, 13:34
First just to be clear, nothing I said or am saying is based on personal knowledge: I was merely in the right place at the right time for someone to vent.

I had no idea who was running the ATC nor that she was leaving, so I was more than a little surprised that "where can I get a hamburger?" turned into 20 minutes of the recent situation with the ATC.
My first impression of what I heard was that while a likeable sort, Dixon was not exactly "one of us"(something that Marra DOES seem to be).
Second, after time, apparently Dixon's path of new initiatives and programs left the board feeling too little was being done with the 32 organizations who do the brunt of the on trail work. I volunteered that seemed to me to be both the most important and difficult part of running the ATC- it has to be difficult to tell volunteers what to do, its not like dealing with employees. I did not get much feed back on that, mostly more about how Dixon had a different vision. Given Marra's history with the ATC, I'm sure things are headed back to the way they were before Dixon. So while "pushed out" may be a bit of an over statement(or not), its easy to see why Dixon would choose to leave rather than fight for her "vision".


I commented on this topic in another thread and I was castigated for it as being a purveyor of "speculation." It's interesting to see this thread with a lot of speculation, so I'm going to repeat what I said before. She was pushed out. I've seen it before through decades of working for corporations and all the earmarks are there. They quickly replaced her with a board member and although her employment was to continue until the end of this month, the new CEO is in place and has been for some time.

IMHO Crossup is spot on target.

crazylegs76
08-29-2019, 14:50
45613

Has PilgramSW raised his ugly head yet again?

Is this a knee jerk suggestion that only a 'troll' can ask questions that may have uncomfortable answers, or an obviously defensive suggestion that there is only a single person in the vast hikerverse of multitudes who asks them? Because these conclusions are facile, irrelevant, absurd, and only serve to deflect from the truth of the answers we have arrived at as a result of the questions only you seem to be uncomfortable with. Thanks for contributing cartoons to a serious discussion though!

gpburdelljr
08-29-2019, 15:00
I got an ear full on this topic from a person who works at the mid Atlantic ATC office and the gist was she was not a good fit for the job and vice versa. It sounded like the organization needed someone to keep it on course rather than to change direction.

Sounds like a disgruntled employee venting, not fact. Until there are some verifiable facts, it’s nothing but gossip.

imscotty
08-29-2019, 15:16
Is this a knee jerk suggestion that only a 'troll' can ask questions that may have uncomfortable answers, or an obviously defensive suggestion that there is only a single person in the vast hikerverse of multitudes who asks them? Because these conclusions are facile, irrelevant, absurd, and only serve to deflect from the truth of the answers we have arrived at as a result of the questions only you seem to be uncomfortable with. Thanks for contributing cartoons to a serious discussion though!

OK CrazyL,

in all seriousness what I see is some nice people genuinely trying to help a community process their grief over terrible murder of StrongHold. I am thankful that Ms. Dixon came to address the community and I applaud and admire Odie's contributions to the AT community also. I do understand that you have a different take on things as you have stated here...

"I think this was an ATC fumble and the completely inappropriate 'AT Strong' speech Dixon gave from the roof of the very bus used to carry the killer closer to his victims is emblematic of a history of poor judgement from a now skipperless ship with a broke rudder and no compass. Not to mention that ancient shuttle has no seats or seatbelts and is used to plug a business that Dixon plugged while exonerating the boob who gave aid and comfort to an enemy of hikers. If I was Stronghold's folks I'd puke at seeing that!"

I would love to hear more of your analysis as a first-hand witness at Trail Days.
Do you think that darker forces were behind this 'inappropriate AT Strong Speech'?
Could Riff Raff be somehow involved?
Is there a deeper ATC conspiracy going on that we should know about?
Are there any other Trail Angels up to nefarious activities?

Inquiring minds want to know.

TX Aggie
08-29-2019, 15:22
I commented on this topic in another thread and I was castigated for it as being a purveyor of "speculation." It's interesting to see this thread with a lot of speculation, so I'm going to repeat what I said before. She was pushed out. I've seen it before through decades of working for corporations and all the earmarks are there. They quickly replaced her with a board member and although her employment was to continue until the end of this month, the new CEO is in place and has been for some time.

IMHO Crossup is spot on target.

There you go, using the powers of perception and experience to come to a sound, logical, and reasonable explanation. How dare you! [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TJ aka Teej
08-29-2019, 15:30
At any rate, Sandra Marra won't be climbing onto any vehicles to give rousing speeches to the teeming multitudes! It appears she won't be climbing any mountains either. The ATC dumped a young avid conservationist and outdoorsperson for an old bean counting lunch lady. Great.

Ageist misogyny.

crazylegs76
08-29-2019, 16:03
OK CrazyL,

in all seriousness what I see is some nice people genuinely trying to help a community process their grief over terrible murder of StrongHold. I am thankful that Ms. Dixon came to address the community and I applaud and admire Odie's contributions to the AT community also. I do understand that you have a different take on things as you have stated here...

"I think this was an ATC fumble and the completely inappropriate 'AT Strong' speech Dixon gave from the roof of the very bus used to carry the killer closer to his victims is emblematic of a history of poor judgement from a now skipperless ship with a broke rudder and no compass. Not to mention that ancient shuttle has no seats or seatbelts and is used to plug a business that Dixon plugged while exonerating the boob who gave aid and comfort to an enemy of hikers. If I was Stronghold's folks I'd puke at seeing that!"

I would love to hear more of your analysis as a first-hand witness at Trail Days.
Do you think that darker forces were behind this 'inappropriate AT Strong Speech'?
Could Riff Raff be somehow involved?
Is there a deeper ATC conspiracy going on that we should know about?
Are there any other Trail Angels up to nefarious activities?

Inquiring minds want to know.







I'm actually reminded of the times some years ago when the folks you reference participated in a killer on the AT loose hoax. Or hoaxes? I saw the threads here. I was at Trail Days then too. Turned out to be a big nothing burger, but it sure made the police presence a real kill joy.

As a paramedic that spends his nights scraping street meat into my bus, and as a parent of two teen girls, I happen to think that shuttles should have seat belts, frat boys belong in the frat house, and if James Jordan was allowed to hike his own hike then Mr. Sanchez would doubtlessly still be alive. Somebody else might be dead, but that's speculation and irrelevant. Maybe it was his being hustled and whisked off the trail for the trail's own good that set him off? Nobody really cares for being escorted from a party do they? If hikers hike, then let them.

Also I think if trail management was led effectively - more proactively - by someone with a fresh perspective from outside the monolithic cult with Ms. Dixon's background the issues you describe and are discussed here might not be issues that are constantly revisited. For what is supposed to be a diverse and all inclusive Shangri-La, the AT community sure seems closed to those with new or differing ideas. The definition of insanity is what? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We should not fear change, but fear.

In closing it should be pointed out that whatever Ms. Dixon was paid for her 22.5 months of apparently unwelcome expertise by the ATC those donated funds were completely wasted. How cavalier of the ATC to just burn almost a half a million bucks of other people's money! Our money! (The exact figure is forthcoming, but I'm guessing she was close to $200K a year w/benefits, 401K, etc. Call it $400K and round up - half a mil. That's part of the attraction of an internal hire now. No headhunting, search, interviews, on and on. Maybe it's a lateral move with no bump? So we end up with the most cost effective choice in charge, not necessarily the best, and more safe, unchanging, same old same old, status quo. That's one step forward, and two steps back.)

crazylegs76
08-29-2019, 16:27
Ageist misogyny.

It wasn't meant to be. I apologize. I was clumsily trying to point out that a trail for hikers might be better led by someone that apparently actually hikes, and that often a fresh youthful approach to anything - a new way - is better than the old one. Ms. Marra not being old per se, but an old or long-time member of the ATC. I'd still wager that Ms. Marra won't be vaulting any buses or pulling any lashes. (I'd also feel similarly if the president of my running club was a septuagenarian that rolled up to my first meeting on a Lark electric scooter tho!)

crazylegs76
08-29-2019, 16:43
OK CrazyL,

in all seriousness what I see is some nice people genuinely trying to help a community process their grief over terrible murder of StrongHold. I am thankful that Ms. Dixon came to address the community and I applaud and admire Odie's contributions to the AT community also. I do understand that you have a different take on things as you have stated here...

"I think this was an ATC fumble and the completely inappropriate 'AT Strong' speech Dixon gave from the roof of the very bus used to carry the killer closer to his victims is emblematic of a history of poor judgement from a now skipperless ship with a broke rudder and no compass. Not to mention that ancient shuttle has no seats or seatbelts and is used to plug a business that Dixon plugged while exonerating the boob who gave aid and comfort to an enemy of hikers. If I was Stronghold's folks I'd puke at seeing that!"

I would love to hear more of your analysis as a first-hand witness at Trail Days.
Do you think that darker forces were behind this 'inappropriate AT Strong Speech'?
Could Riff Raff be somehow involved?
Is there a deeper ATC conspiracy going on that we should know about?
Are there any other Trail Angels up to nefarious activities?

Inquiring minds want to know.







With specific regard to the now infamous and well known "killer on the loose" hoax, or hoaxes, perpetrated by those 'angels', a certain hiking club, and others who have made "contributions to the trail" back in '16', '17', and '18' I have one question I'd like to ask: What happens when we cry wolf?

4eyedbuzzard
08-29-2019, 17:39
I've been informed by a low-level source that Wikiwackos has the emails that will prove Dixon's resignation is a result of a vast Buffalo wing conspiracy run by the shallow state, big oil, and of course, the AMC.

Seriously y'all? She either quit because she didn't like the job, or was asked to resign because the Board didn't like the way she was performing, and more likely because of a combination of both of those reasons. That's just the way such things work.

crazylegs76
08-29-2019, 18:11
You'd have to be wearing a tin foil beanie to think the GoFundMe crowd was hard at work making "contributions" to the trail, that Dixon's Trail Days "performance" wasn't a fireable offense, that a shuttle with no seat belts is safe, or that the annual spring "psycho loose on the AT" hoax run by the same aforementioned GoFundMe set had no impact on the communities perceptions of this year's real psycho loose on the AT warnings.

Captain Blue
08-29-2019, 21:54
I was told that the Executive Director of the ATC spends about 2/3 of their time rasing money. If Suzanne Dixon wasn't bringing in the money she would not last long. Makes sense to me as the first email I received from Sandi Marra was one asking for money.

double d
08-30-2019, 11:20
Look where? I've read ATC's (and others) financial statements and irs 990's for many years. There are corporate partners/sponsors which generate revenue to ATC, bit I know of no for profit ATC entity. I really don't think there's a deep state conspiracy here.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Couldn't agree more with you 4eyedbuzzard, as most non-profits that are the size of ATC have many regulations/rules that they have to publically disclose their revenue, both within the organization and their expenses/payments (salaries, operational expenses, etc.).

double d
08-30-2019, 11:58
With specific regard to the now infamous and well known "killer on the loose" hoax, or hoaxes, perpetrated by those 'angels', a certain hiking club, and others who have made "contributions to the trail" back in '16', '17', and '18' I have one question I'd like to ask: What happens when we cry wolf?

Do you even hike the AT? Seems like you're a Troll in all honesty, as its hard to follow your posts, at least to me.

soilman
08-30-2019, 12:01
It wasn't meant to be. I apologize. I was clumsily trying to point out that a trail for hikers might be better led by someone that apparently actually hikes, and that often a fresh youthful approach to anything - a new way - is better than the old one. Ms. Marra not being old per se, but an old or long-time member of the ATC. I'd still wager that Ms. Marra won't be vaulting any buses or pulling any lashes. (I'd also feel similarly if the president of my running club was a septuagenarian that rolled up to my first meeting on a Lark electric scooter tho!)


Do you know Ms. Marra? What do you mean "someone that apparently hikes". Is that code for thru hiker? According to the ATC new release, Ms. Marra has hiked 1200 miles of the AT. She also is a trail maintainer.

robbym70
08-30-2019, 12:15
Not sure where this fits but I've seen a bunch of posts advertising new jobs in marketing and outreach at the ATC. I'm guessing the new president sent the previous occupants packing, so to speak, and is bringing in a new set of people for those positions.

TNhiker
08-30-2019, 12:37
Not sure where this fits but I've seen a bunch of posts advertising new jobs in marketing and outreach at the ATC. I'm guessing the new president sent the previous occupants packing, so to speak, and is bringing in a new set of people for those positions.




i always just thought their turnover was high......i dont think they pay very much, hence the turnover.....

CalebJ
08-30-2019, 12:54
Do you even hike the AT? Seems like you're a Troll in all honesty, as its hard to follow your posts, at least to me.

Strongly agree.

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 12:54
Couldn't agree more with you 4eyedbuzzard, as most non-profits that are the size of ATC have many regulations/rules that they have to publically disclose their revenue, both within the organization and their expenses/payments (salaries, operational expenses, etc.).

So where do the proceeds of Darn Tough socks with the ATC logo on the ankle for a hundred bucks a pop at the ATC store go?

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 12:56
Do you even hike the AT? Seems like you're a Troll in all honesty, as its hard to follow your posts, at least to me.

Sounds like a reading comprehension problem to me. And calling someone names that minimize their humanity is an effective way to strike down ideas that you don't agree with, but is not a substantive, nor kind, approach to discourse.

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 13:01
Do you know Ms. Marra? What do you mean "someone that apparently hikes". Is that code for thru hiker? According to the ATC new release, Ms. Marra has hiked 1200 miles of the AT. She also is a trail maintainer.

Earl Shaffer also HIKED the AT. But, he doesn't HIKE the AT anymore. So his understanding of today's trail issues from the comfort of his office, were he alive, would be concepts that are completely outdated. It's funny how everyone connected with the trail in any way is suddenly a hiker. Ever notice that? I'm glad Ms. Marra hiked and has done trail work. I still think Dixon's untimely termination was a complete waste. And yes I hike the AT and have done trail work. Just left the whites, it was epic!

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 13:07
Not sure where this fits but I've seen a bunch of posts advertising new jobs in marketing and outreach at the ATC. I'm guessing the new president sent the previous occupants packing, so to speak, and is bringing in a new set of people for those positions.

I'll bet there is an employee exodus in the wake of Dixon's untimely departure. They brought in a fresh face that wanted change and she got "forced out" by the OLD guard, and talented folks with new good ideas of their own were rightly pissed when she either quit in disgust or was fired by clowns who fear change. Happens all the time. Would you rather work in a static or dynamic environment? Which do you think is more rewarding and exciting?

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 13:09
i always just thought their turnover was high......i dont think they pay very much, hence the turnover.....

People will stay with rewarding and exciting careers they love at awesome orgs despite **** pay.

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 13:10
Strongly agree.

But, have no position in this matter to contribute.

Bugeye
08-30-2019, 13:25
Take a deep breath and think......then post - my advice to you

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 13:31
Take a deep breath and think......then post - my advice to you

Considering that's your 4th post in 9 years I'm guessing you do lots of thinking. But, what are your thoughts with regard to this discussion?

soilman
08-30-2019, 15:35
Earl Shaffer also HIKED the AT. But, he doesn't HIKE the AT anymore. So his understanding of today's trail issues from the comfort of his office, were he alive, would be concepts that are completely outdated. It's funny how everyone connected with the trail in any way is suddenly a hiker. Ever notice that? I'm glad Ms. Marra hiked and has done trail work. I still think Dixon's untimely termination was a complete waste. And yes I hike the AT and have done trail work. Just left the whites, it was epic!

I don't think Suzanne Dixon had done much hiking on the AT. Reading all your posts you sure have a lot of guessing, suppositions, and very few facts.

4eyedbuzzard
08-30-2019, 16:40
So where do the proceeds of Darn Tough socks with the ATC logo on the ankle for a hundred bucks a pop at the ATC store go?Well, first off, I see that ATC logo Darn Tough socks range in price from $22.70 to $29.00 on the ATC website - http://www.atctrailstore.org/apparel/accessories/socks/ Not that outrageous if you factor in what Darn Tough socks cost without the logo.

That said, here's an overly simplified explanation of how merchandise sales from non-profits work: ATC buys the logo socks from Darn Tough (they manufacture them for ATC) for $X (cost of goods sold which is an expense). Then ATC sells the socks for $Y dollars (revenue). Eventually, during the accounting process, $Y - $X = $Z (income). $Z is income for ATC. The revenue from the socks is no different than a donation. Even if there is a purely cash donation, there are expenses associated with soliciting it, collecting, and disbursing it (management/operating expenses). In the case of when you buy a product from a non-profit, like ATC logo socks, it works very much like when you buy Girl Scout Cookies or buy a tee shirt from ASPCA or a DVD from PBS. You pay a price well above the market value for the product, and the organization makes revenue from that purchase that greatly exceeds it's costs for the item. But they don't make a profit, as there are no owners who benefit from the business activity, the money only serves the organization's societal purpose (program expenses). https://smallbusiness.chron.com/difference-between-income-revenue-nonprofit-25352.html

The difference between non-profits and for-profits is that non-profits serve some public/society purpose (which you may or may not agree with) and have no owners (shareholders) and therefore money earned after expenses is ultimately spent on that societal purpose. A non-profit will generally have a Board of Directors, but most often they are unpaid (as are ATC's). They can and often do however hire professional employees like Dixon to run the operations, sometimes highly compensated ones. But as far as ATC is concerned, it is very highly rated by both Charity Navigator and BBB https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=8239 http://www.give.org/charity-reviews/national/environment/appalachian-trail-conservancy-in-harpers-ferry-wv-2291





(https://smallbusiness.chron.com/difference-between-income-revenue-nonprofit-25352.html)

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 16:42
I don't think Suzanne Dixon had done much hiking on the AT. Reading all your posts you sure have a lot of guessing, suppositions, and very few facts.

I'm not sure I need to point out the somewhat hilarious contradiction you supply here beginning with a guess and then faulting someone else for making guesses, but this thread I started begins with a question mark. And if you follow it you'll see it begins a discussion where some conclusions and opinions are formed. Since I'm not writing a scholarly report guesses, suppositions, and very few facts are all an opinion-based chat requires. And it's been productive at arriving at some consensus conclusions, suppositious as they may be.

Of course, the 'transparent' and crowdfunded source of our suppositious conjecturing could set the record straight here and now, as if they owed us some small modicum of respectful explanation for our collective unwavering financial and fiduciary support, and to ally any concerns that might arise among us from the perception that they may lack stability at their upper echelon.

gpburdelljr
08-30-2019, 17:06
The bottom line is that no one posting here “knows”. “Consensus conclusions” are often wrong, and better called consensus opinions.

rickb
08-30-2019, 17:27
The bottom line is that no one posting here “knows”. “Consensus conclusions” are often wrong, and better called consensus opinions.

Good point.

I, for one, have a very incomplete picture of what the ATC is doing these days.

My wife and I removed them as a beneficiaries of our accounts a few years ago in favor of other organizations because of this. I suspect others have done the same.

The are are doing great things, I suppose — but I just don’t get it.

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 17:32
The bottom line is that no one posting here “knows”. “Consensus conclusions” are often wrong, and better called consensus opinions.

Actually, that's not accurate. Someone that posts here on WB all the time definitely knows, but as usual their silence is deafening.

gpburdelljr
08-30-2019, 17:46
Actually, that's not accurate. Someone that posts here on WB all the time definitely knows, but as usual their silence is deafening.

i should have been more specific. No one that has posted on this thread knows.

crazylegs76
08-30-2019, 18:12
Good point.

I, for one, have a very incomplete picture of what the ATC is doing these days.

My wife and I removed them as a beneficiaries of our accounts a few years ago in favor of other organizations because of this. I suspect others have done the same.

The are are doing great things, I suppose — but I just don’t get it.

I'm fascinated by this. Do you mean that you had bequeathed your assets to the ATC in the event of your passing and then decided not to? If so, can you expand on why?

Traveler
08-31-2019, 06:53
I'm fascinated by this. Do you mean that you had bequeathed your assets to the ATC in the event of your passing and then decided not to? If so, can you expand on why?
Many people take out life insurance policies, set up trusts, or set aside amounts of money in a will for charities or groups they want to support after their death. Probably a foreign concept for some, but philanthropy is alive and well in the US. Ask most any college or university about how endowments work and the various ways they can be set up.

Perhaps that helps clear the mystery.

4eyedbuzzard
08-31-2019, 08:41
I'm fascinated by this. Do you mean that you had bequeathed your assets to the ATC in the event of your passing and then decided not to? If so, can you expand on why?People bequeath portions of their estates to various charities, endowments, etc. all the time. While alive they often change their minds as to which ones they support and want to leave assets to. Maybe they think the ATC isn't living up to its mission, or Sierra Club is doing work more in line with their concerns. Or maybe they do a complete about face and choose to support "Wise Use" movements and "Drill Baby, Drill".

Furlough
08-31-2019, 09:19
Actually, that's not accurate. Someone that posts here on WB all the time definitely knows, but as usual their silence is deafening. I know zero about Ms. Dixon. Perhaps she has a facebook account. As this really seems to be an obsession/issue with you, perhaps you could contact her directly and ask her your questions.

Furlough

rickb
08-31-2019, 13:22
I'm fascinated by this. Do you mean that you had bequeathed your assets to the ATC in the event of your passing and then decided not to? If so, can you expand on why?

My wife and I don’t have any kids— so when the survivor dies anything left will be divided between several non-profits.

Since we met on the AT, the ATC was a natural candidate— or more correctly a special fund set up by the ATC called the Trust for Appalachian Lands which to my understanding no longer exists.

With that gone, and without a good understanding on the impact our bequest could have, we decided to refocus on other organizations— so of which actively encourage folks like us.

BTW, one does not need to have a Will (even though that is often a good idea) to leave something to worthy organizations. All you need to do is name them as a beneficiary (or a contingent/secondary beneficiary) on your investment accounts, IRA, etc. Super simple for people of any age — and no cost to do so.

D2maine
09-01-2019, 19:39
My wife and I don’t have any kids— so when the survivor dies anything left will be divided between several non-profits.

Since we met on the AT, the ATC was a natural candidate— or more correctly a special fund set up by the ATC called the Trust for Appalachian Lands which to my understanding no longer exists.

With that gone, and without a good understanding on the impact our bequest could have, we decided to refocus on other organizations— so of which actively encourage folks like us.

BTW, one does not need to have a Will (even though that is often a good idea) to leave something to worthy organizations. All you need to do is name them as a beneficiary (or a contingent/secondary beneficiary) on your investment accounts, IRA, etc. Super simple for people of any age — and no cost to do so.


these guys do great work and may be in line with your goals

http://matlt.org/

double d
09-01-2019, 22:48
I'll bet there is an employee exodus in the wake of Dixon's untimely departure. They brought in a fresh face that wanted change and she got "forced out" by the OLD guard, and talented folks with new good ideas of their own were rightly pissed when she either quit in disgust or was fired by clowns who fear change. Happens all the time. Would you rather work in a static or dynamic environment? Which do you think is more rewarding and exciting?
Outside of your opinion, how do you know this to be true????

4eyedbuzzard
09-02-2019, 08:11
...Someone that posts here on WB all the time definitely knows, but as usual their silence is deafening.LaurieP represents ATC in a public capacity - it's her JOB. Why would you even think she would comment beyond on what has been publicly released?


I'll bet there is an employee exodus in the wake of Dixon's untimely departure. They brought in a fresh face that wanted change and she got "forced out" by the OLD guard, and talented folks with new good ideas of their own were rightly pissed when she either quit in disgust or was fired by clowns who fear change. Happens all the time. Would you rather work in a static or dynamic environment? Which do you think is more rewarding and exciting?I'll take that bet. I bet ATC's turnover rate will remain about the same as always. And FWIW, the ATC's mission is first and foremost to preserve and manage the AT - not change it or shake things up simply because it's exciting. The "OLD guard", all of whom have extensive hiking backgrounds and "personal histories" with the AT, have done a pretty good job over the years developing and managing a very unique public asset.

TexasBob
09-02-2019, 10:39
People will stay with rewarding and exciting careers they love at awesome orgs despite **** pay.

After reading this thread, I think one of the most stressful parts of the job and one reason for high turnover would be having to deal frequently with people who let their passion overwhelm their common sense. If you have been on WB for very long then you know how people get worked up over AT issues and a few folks take it to the extreme.

rickb
09-02-2019, 13:14
LaurieP represents ATC in a public capacity - it's her JOB. Why would you even think she would comment beyond on what has been publicly released?

I'll take that bet. I bet ATC's turnover rate will remain about the same as always. And FWIW, the ATC's mission is first and foremost to preserve and manage the AT - not change it or shake things up simply because it's exciting. The "OLD guard", all of whom have extensive hiking backgrounds and "personal histories" with the AT, have done a pretty good job over the years developing and managing a very unique public asset.
I am sure that the ATC is doing great things and hope that nothing I post here will be interpreted to as suggesting otherwise, but for the life of me I don’t get their $4 million dollar payroll.

I wonder how that compared with what they were paying their professional staff 10, 20 or 30 years ago — and why the increase was needed.

soilman
09-02-2019, 20:33
I am sure that the ATC is doing great things and hope that nothing I post here will be interpreted to as suggesting otherwise, but for the life of me I don’t get their $4 million dollar payroll.

I wonder how that compared with what they were paying their professional staff 10, 20 or 30 years ago — and why the increase was needed.

I have been a member of ATC for 44 years, life member for almost 40. I think when I first joined they may have only had one paid employee (Jean Cashin). Today they have 25 employees just in the conservation section. So I don't think they have started to pay exorbitant salaries, just have increased the number of staff. I have not always agreed with some of the decisions ATC has made. I was upset when they changed their name from Conference to Conservancy and the AT News became the AT Journeys with paid ads. But bottom line they do good work and I will continue to support them financially and by volunteering.

FrogLevel
09-03-2019, 10:50
[QUOTE=FrogLevel;2253917]How could she or anyone in the ATC have prevented the incident on trail?

I think this was the preventable incident that would have got lots of folks terminated for so many reasons that are obvious it isn't worth listing them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckPGLGZt_4A

How can the ATC prevent a crazy person with an axe from killing someone on the trail?