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RagingHampster
02-15-2003, 11:13
Well for lightweight hikers that is...
I was going to make a Sil-Nylon Raincoat, but this is even lighter!

Walmart "Ozark Trail Emergency Hooded Poncho".

PROS
- Covers Head, Torso, Shoulders, Butt, and Pack.
- Seams around neck and down sides are durable.
- 100% Waterproof
- Packs to the size of two decks of cards.
- Poncho & plastic stow bag weigh 0.75oz.
- Costs $1.50 at Walmart. Keep an extra in bounce box.

CONS
- Slippery. Must have both shoulder straps on.
- 0% Breatheability, but not really a con because it's a poncho and ponchos breathe extremely well by their design.
- "One size fits all" design may be too big for some 5'2" folks.
- Horizontal rain may be a problem, but really...

ATN2N
02-15-2003, 12:46
Glad to see that I am not the only Colin Fletcher reader.

Redbeard
02-15-2003, 15:26
They do, however, disintegrate fairly quickly if you don't take extrordinary care of them. They are intended for "emergency" use, not constant use. I tried using one last year and tore it up in a couple of day's ( it rained a lot)

RagingHampster
02-15-2003, 15:50
What do you mean by disintegrate? The plastic breaks down or something?

Redbeard
02-15-2003, 19:54
"disintegrate" may be exagerating, it rained 4 days in a row, was dry a day, then rained again (if I remember correctly I was around the Georgia NC border) last spring, So I used it a lot, it would catch on the buckles of my obnoxious Netherworld pack ( lot's of adjustments) I'd say carry a spare in the rainy sections, but it would be a great idea during the dry periods when rain is intermitant.

RagingHampster
02-16-2003, 09:28
Do you mean it caught on your hipbelt buckle alot? I must say I am a little nervous about the friction between the shoulder straps and the plastic, but even if I carried two of them, at 1.5oz a pair would still be 1/4 the weight of a 5-6oz sil-nylon shell.

I'm also going to try using an umbrella (influenced by Ray Jardine). I'll have to stowe my hiking poles when using it, or make some type of holding mechanism on my pack.

It's all snow here right now (and much of the country for that matter lol), so I'll have to wait for warmer weather to do an official test...

Redbeard
02-16-2003, 12:33
I carried over 50 lbs, it would stretch as I slid the pack off my shoulders, after a day of hiking the pack did not come off elagently. Also there was the sweat factor, that comes with any rain gear though. I remember it seperating at the hood, rite where rain would come down the back of my pack cover.

RagingHampster
02-16-2003, 13:36
Well I'll be carrying 28-30lbs max weight (including 12lbs food, 4-6lbs water, and ~1lb fuel). I'm hoping that the seams wont tear, but I'll obviously do some trials once it gets warmer out.

MOWGLI
02-16-2003, 14:04
My experience with rain gear and thru-hiking is it's gotta be pretty cold in order to put rain gear on. I'm talkin less than 50 degrees. Once May hit, I just hiked in my shorts and t-shirt or fleece and got soaked. Everything eventually dried. Nothing is breathable long-term when climbing mountains on the AT.

RagingHampster
02-16-2003, 18:43
As I mentioned before, I will be carrying an umbrella, which for most storms will keep me dry enough. If it worsens I'll don the poncho, and if even more worse, I'll simply make camp (in extreme conditions). I'm not too worried about getting soaked either, so long as it's 60*F or warmer.

Skeemer
02-16-2003, 20:07
Didn't read Jardine's book. Do you just go out and find the lightest umbrella you can find?

Moose2001
02-16-2003, 20:27
RH... IMHO, I would not recommend starting the AT with only a poncho and certainly not the type you're describing. I don't beleive the poncho would give you adequate protection from wintery weather if you happen to get into a bad storm. The type of poncho you're describing tears easily and in a high wind could easily destroy itself. More suited for late spring and summer than for a start in March.

RagingHampster
02-16-2003, 23:33
I will also have a ripstop nylon (breatheable) shell jacket, pants & a down jacket, so I think I will have adequate protection in snowy weather. Combined with the poncho (if my tests prove it worthy this spring) & Umbrella, I think I will have better breatheable protection from the elements than most people. I have a heavy gore-tex pac-lite jacket and a gore-tex xcr jacket, but I think they work like crap.

Redbeard
02-17-2003, 06:45
Plus if you get into a really bad storm, in most cases you can just whip up that hammock and get into your bag, I concurr with not wearing raingear when it's warmer, just make sure your clothes don't chafe when wet... I think I may try an umbrella this year too, with a wind parka and a nylon wrap to go around my waist.
(see "rain kilt") My Sierra Designs anorak keeps me dry and doubles for wind and cold. I'll try wrapping a nylon sheet with velcro around my waist for my shorts, and I never hike without my gator's.

RagingHampster
02-19-2003, 16:29
Sorry guys, my scale was broke. Got a new one today...
The poncho & plastic sack weighs 2oz not 1oz.
Still my current choice though...

earplug
02-19-2003, 16:41
Tried the poncho and tried Marmot precip. Love the Marmot precip. Class act along with a good pack cover, loosing weight off my body and doing aerobic training

gravityman
02-19-2003, 17:44
You should think about the paper suits for rain gear.

I like them a lot. I abuse my gear, and they have held up. Lighter than marmot's precip, and better IMHO. They breath A LOT better.

The frogg togg fit was pretty crappy. That's why I went with rainshield. Their pants and jacket fit me a lot better. Also the storm flaps and hood were more substantial.

http://www.rainshield.com/catalog_boating.html

style #1122 is what I went with.

here's a review of a slightly older style. They claim the weight is less than the frogg toggs, but I haven't weighted my suit.

http://www.backpacking.net/rainshield-review.html

enjoy,

Gravity man

tlbj6142
02-19-2003, 18:34
Does it have pitzips?

gravityman
02-19-2003, 19:05
And as far as I can tell, it doesn't need them. It seems to breath well enough without. I'm a very sweaty hiker, so I really appeciate the breathability...

Christian
02-19-2003, 20:04
You probably want to consider the Gram weenie rain jacket from Dancing lightgear - just under 4 oz and a lot more durable : http://www.trailquest.net/dlgcgwjkt.html
Christian

RagingHampster
02-19-2003, 23:30
I own a DLG tent, and considered a sil-nylon jacket. The 4oz is for a size that will fit someone thats 5' tall. I'm 6'1 225lbs, and an XL size would weigh 6oz+. I also like the breatheable benefits of a poncho, packability, low replacement cost, and ability to cover my pack at the same time. It will be used in combination with my Go-Lite Dome Umbrella.

SGT Rock
02-19-2003, 23:32
I have a ProVent rain suit. Same stuff y'all are talking about. I never tried the Frog Toggs, but according to those that have tried both, the storm flap on the ProVent is better. I got mine at www.thru-hiker.com

Kerosene
02-20-2003, 10:25
I've carry Frog Toggs, but I haven't had any problems with the fit of the hood. I love the light weight and use them for both wind and rain protection. In wet, humid weather you will certainly perspire, so I tend to walk a lot slower on the uphills to try to moderate my body temperature.

There's been a lot of talk about not needing a rainsuit in the summer. That may be true for a light, steady rainfall from low stratus clouds, but heavy rain falling from tall cumulonimbus clouds can get mighty cold! I walked through the remains of a hurricane in early August in southern Vermont a long time ago (14" of rain for the day I did 14 miles) using a poncho over shorts and my legs nearly froze where the rain hit the bare skin.

gravityman
02-20-2003, 11:16
The Rainshield actually has buttons for the storm flap (seperate from the zipper), which is really nice. I need to get a scale to weigh it... I'm curious what it weighs relative to the Provent...

Gravity Man

tlbj6142
02-22-2003, 15:26
Can the "paper" rain suits like Frogg Toggs, ProVent, RainShield, etc. be washed several times without them falling apart?

My current gore-tex rain jacket smells real bad after just a weekend walk in the rain. I can't image how it would smell after 5 months of use. :D

RagingHampster
02-23-2003, 05:07
With the sub $1 rain poncho, just discard/recycle it after a few weeks and get another one from your bounce-box/mail-drop.

tlbj6142
02-23-2003, 09:25
That didn't really answer my question.:p

While I think ponchos are a good way to go once it warms up a bit, they provide little wind/rain protection when it is cold. As such I'd think the "paper" suits seem to fit that need. However, I'm not sure if they can hold up to multiple washings they would experience in a short period of time.

Any ideas?

This thread is a bit old, so I'm not sure how many folks are still following it.

Rhody Bill
02-23-2003, 19:02
I've washed my Frogg Toggs many times. Used them in September of '01 and '02 on the LT and love them. Started the AT in '00 with goretex pants and jacket, only wore the pants once and the jacket 'wetted out' and I froze in a cold rain... sent them home and just went with a lightweight SD raincoat I bought in Damascus. People who bought the Frogg Toggs raved about them had no complaints so I bought a set after the hike. Don't know about the other similar products, but if they're tougher, all the better. The material also has some heat retention qualities which a plastic coat (or wet goretex) doesn't. (great camp wear)

gravityman
02-24-2003, 11:46
I've washed mine a number of times. No problem with that. Actually, they get nice and soft, and lose the papery feel. This is true for the Tyvek ground cloth as well. Washing the ground cloth really makes it more like a fabric, so it doesn't get those folds that are impossible to staighten out.

Tom

SkyKing
02-27-2003, 00:22
RH....have you looked at/considered The Packa? It does weigh 10 oz. but seems to fit the bill for pack cover and jacket. Not sure how it keeps rain from getting between you and you pack tho. Would like your/everyones opnion. http://www.thepacka.com.

RagingHampster
02-27-2003, 09:42
Well I keep everything I need to be dry in Sil-Nylon Stuffsacks. Thus a pack-cover is dead weight. Carrying an umbrella also allows you to keep the entire pack dry (in most rains storms). You can also stretch the 2oz Ozark poncho over your pack if you want to. Nothing is more breatheable than hiking with an umbrella.

Most rain storms below treeline can be handled by an umbrella quite well. Above treeline (where an umbrella can be blown-out in windy conditions), a poncho with sealed sides (not button ups), and small arm holes will keep you very dry. It also covers your butt and theighs, leaving only your knees & arms exposed (if you wear gaiters). Having openings at the arms and a big opening around the bottom gives you excellent air movement, something not found in a sealed cinched up gore-tex jacket. In real cold conditions, it also serves as a semi-vapor barrier when you crawl into bed.

Don't get me wrong, jackets have their places. I personally don't believe any waterproof fabric breathes well, and may consider a 5oz sil-nylon jacket when I hit the Whites if the hiking season has been unusually nasty. I feel that you make a jacket breatheable by designing it better with awning covered mesh panels and zips.

I still plan to use the 9oz GoLite Umbrella and 2oz Ozark Poncho.

I'm currently debating on what exactly to take for cold conditions. Whatever I take will be volume insulation, and not fleece. Now Jacket vs Vest and Down vs Synthetic. I plan to use a down blanket, but I think that when I'm exerting myself and sweating, synthetic fill would be a wise choice for a vest/coat. I've been searching for a lightweight synthetic-fill jacket with removable sleeves, but am not having any luck.

I think I'm going to take a synthetic-fill vest, and a 4oz GoLite not waterproof windbreaker. I will be hiking in a long-sleeve shirt, rolling up the sleeves when it gets hot.

My current clothing setup looks as follows...

9oz GoLite Dome Ultralight Umbrella
2oz Ozark Trail Poncho
4oz GoLite C-Thru Wicking Long-Sleeve Shirt
10oz REI Sahara Convertible Cargo Pants/Shorts
2oz Medium Weight SmartWool Merino Socks (x2 pair thus 4oz)
3oz OR Rocky Mountain Low Gaiters
3oz TNF Gore Windstopper Highpoint Fleece Hat
2oz Black Diamond Powerstretch Gloves
4oz GoLite Hooded Ether Wind Shirt (has a DWR coating too)

And a synthetic-fill vest... around 1-1.25lbs.
Not sure about shoes yet, but trail-runners.

My legs never get cold. I hike/camp in 0*F weather in just my convertible pants. I dunno, just doesnt bother me.

tlbj6142
02-27-2003, 10:05
Doesn't GoLite have a cheap vest? I see it sometimes at Sierra Trading Post, or in REI's Outlet site.

Regarding your legs, I agree that pants are fine while hiking. But do yourself a favor and pickup a pair of $20 Duofold pants. They weigh next to nothing and will do a good job at keeping you warm in the morning (before you warm up) and around camp. And you can wear them in bed if it gets really cold.

You can always send them ahead once it warms up.

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=226&prrfnbr=17939

or

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=226&prrfnbr=24667072

RagingHampster
02-27-2003, 10:55
I do have a pair of duofold pants, but have used them only once. It was -15*F or so.

Alison
02-27-2003, 14:16
Just out of curiosty, do you know exactly how many ounces these pants weigh (obviously, it varies by size)? Thanks!

tlbj6142
02-27-2003, 14:24
No, sorry.

But according to the above links, the "dual layer" model weights 8.5 oz. I have the single layer model (the dual layer ones seem too warm to me).

While at the store, I held both pairs in my hands at the same time, there is a noticalbe difference in weight. So, I'd guess the single layer model must be less than 5 oz.

If you are lucky, I'll remember to bring my pair into work and I'll weigh them on our postal scale.

Alison
02-27-2003, 14:36
Thank you! That would be great! I can't recall the weight of my homemade 100 wt polartec fleece pants, but I'm pretty sure they are more than 5 oz. Perhaps 6 or 7.

tlbj6142
02-27-2003, 14:55
The Duofold pants are not fleece.

RagingHampster
02-27-2003, 15:14
Well I found a synthetic-filled jacket that meets my criteria, but it's a jacket, not a vest (they sell it in vest form, but it weighs only 3oz less and lacks features of the jacket).

Mountain Hardware Chugach

http://www.mgear.com/pages/product/product.asp?level1_id=56&level2_id=75&level3_id=76&item=260008&level2_title=Men%27s+Technical+Wear&level3_title=Down+%26+Insulated+Tops

It weighs in at 1lb 4oz for a large, so I'm guessing an XL will be around 1.5-1.75lbs. Being synthetic filled rather than down, it's also cheaper. As I said above, I went with Polarguard 3D rather than 700fill Down because I don't want a basketball for a coat after sweating in it.

If I work up the courage, I may modify the coat into a convertible vest/jacket with zippers.

Woo-Hoo!

Alison
02-27-2003, 16:17
tlbj6142

Yes, I checked the link you sent earlier. It's thermax, am I right?

tlbj6142
02-28-2003, 11:01
Black Duofold middleweight single layer size large weigh 184g (6.4oz) on my scale.

Alison
02-28-2003, 11:25
Ok, thanks! I may have to do some reconsidering here. So they really keep you warm? My plan was to use my fleece pants as needed until it warms up. Then ship them home.

tlbj6142
02-28-2003, 11:31
I think so. But if you are cold-blooded your fleece pants might be a better option.

Let me tell you a story...

The first week of Jan 2003 (1-5), I spent 4 nights in the Smokies along the AT. On the 3rd we were hiking from Icewater to Pecks Corner. It was 15F and very windy and snowing. My legs were quite fine. All I had on were these pants and a thin pair of trail paints.

Now my hands were freezing and I was sweating under my shell (I actually had a 3" sweat-cicle hanging from my pack), but that is another issue all together. :D

Alison
03-02-2003, 17:43
You've certainly given me something to consider. I really appreciate the help!

Alison

The Hog
03-18-2003, 10:43
....this AT thru hiker did not carry raingear. At all. You heard me right. Well, let me take that back, because it's not entirely true. The first 3 weeks of my 1984 northbound thru hike were marred by cold rain and sleet nearly every day. I started at Springer with a lightweight poncho that covered me and my pack, but as soon as the poncho got wet, it became very heavy and sloppy. It also held my heat in so much that I overheated and, consequently, sweated buckets. I got rid of it, accepted that I was going to get wet and concentrated on keeping warm instead.

Think about it. You're going to get wet on a thru hike, regardless of what you wear (even garbage, er, gor-tex). Let me repeat that for emphasis: YOU ARE GOING TO GET WET. If you put raingear on, it may shed the water falling from the sky, but it will hold your heat in, and you will be completely soaked in your own sweat. In other words, wet (If you don't believe me, put on your raingear and try carrying your pack up and down a few 5,000 footers. Then come back and tell me you're dry). And obviously, if you don't wear raingear, you're also going to get wet, but you won't be carrying the extra weight. The important thing is to keep warm by wearing some kind of synthetic (I like fleece and also wool, polypropylene stinks too much), with a light wind shell. As soon as you stop for the day, put on dry clothes (kept dry in a plastic bag in your pack).

If you're squeamish about getting wet, you probably shouldn't think about thru hiking. The weight of this raingear system: 0.0 ounces. The cost: nothing.

tlbj6142
03-18-2003, 10:54
Did you bring a pack cover? If not, did your bag absorb water and become heavy?

The Hog
03-18-2003, 11:13
I switched to a plastic garbage bag to cover the pack- cheap and light. I guess that means my raingear weight and cost wasn't zero after all, but still pretty minimal.

tlbj6142
03-18-2003, 11:34
So, what exactly was your "light wind shell"?

Blue Jay
03-18-2003, 11:40
Mr. Hog I use the same type of rain gear. Nothing beats the waterproofing, breathability and weight of human skin.

The Hog
03-18-2003, 11:43
Thanks Blue Jay, there's nothing like good old fashioned common sense when it comes to jettisoning unnecessary gear!

tlbj6142
03-18-2003, 11:58
Just thought of something, what about in camp, or town? Sure you can switch to dry stuff when you are ready to bed down, but what about during meal time? Or just walking about camp, bathroom, town vists, etc. when you wouldn't get "hot" under normal raingear?

The Hog
03-18-2003, 12:10
Still dreaming, thanks for not dismissing all this out of hand as lunatic ravings. To answer your questions, you could include raingear in your mail drop for town stops. Walking around camp would depend on how hard it's raining (I might don already damp gear ie fleece or wool in a cold downpour). I can't remember the wind shell brand, but it was cheap and extremely light.

DebW
03-18-2003, 12:52
While I won't call The Hog crazy for not carrying rain gear, I would caution people that his technique may not work for everyone, and hypothermia is a real possibility in cold, rainy, windy weather. People differ in how much heat they generate while hiking. If heat loss is greater than heat generation, you will become hypothermic. The advantage of raingear is not that it keeps you completely dry. It's that it keeps the wind and cold rain water off of you. The wetness you get inside raingear is warm (it came from your body, and in fact releases heat as it condenses inside your raingear). That wetness will not chill you because it can't evaporate (it's inside a vapor barrier). Anyway, better not to dump the raingear until you've tested this method for yourself under a variety of conditions. And you might have to carry more clothing with this method so there are dry clothes in your pack when you need them.. If you use raingear, you should remove most of your clothing before putting it on to prevent overheating inside it..

The Hog
03-18-2003, 14:09
Yes, I completely agree that hypothermia is a serious danger in cold, rainy, windy weather, one not to be taken lightly. And you're right, raingear does not keep you completely dry. And its function, as you say, is to keep the wind and cold rain water off you. But wind shells accomplish the same thing with less weight and expense. In cold, rainy weather, I always wear a wool or fleece garment under the shell. I'm not saying everyone should do it my way. Of course everyone should be comfortable with their own gear. But I have tested this wind shell thing over about 2,500 trail miles, and it works for me.

RagingHampster
03-18-2003, 14:26
I'm still using the 2oz poncho. It's working great for me. Hiked in 30*F Rains the other day with it and my sandals/sealskinz and I was fine.

Peaks
03-19-2003, 08:44
I'm of the opinion that there is a time and place for raingear.

Hypothermia is a very real threat. Harley died last September near Mt. Washington because of it. And he is not the first to die in the Whites from hypothermia.

Early in the hiking season, and late in the hiking season, hypothermia can be a very real threat. Also, it can be a threat all summer long along the exposed ridges of the White Mountains.

During the summer in the mid Atlantic States, it may feel better to just get wet in the rain. But the exposure usually isn't there during the summer either.

My suggestion is to always carry raingear. The Marmot Precip jacket weighs a little over 1/2 pound. And, when you are at a time and place that requires more, bring along a pair of Frogg Toggs rain pants. Less that 1/2 pound. It could save your life.

Blue Jay
03-19-2003, 09:05
I was long past Washington when Harley died, but I was told he had "proper" rain gear. Gear is not what protects you from Hypothermia, your brain does. I almost died once on a motorcycle on a summer day due to hypothermia. Once you stop shivering you have to know that you are NOW stupid because your brain is shutting down and you're no longer very cold. You can have Goretex up the wazoo and die of hypothermia.

RagingHampster
03-19-2003, 09:10
I also carry either my Polarguard 3D insulated jacket, or my Polartec 300 Fleece Jacket (as well as polartec 300 mittens and hat). I've hiked in freezing rain with my poncho and then camped in single digit weather and had no problems. If its pouring cats and dogs, I dont even bother to hike (unless it's 70 or 80 degrees) and rather make/maintain camp. In worse case scenarios, I would simply wrap myself in my tent. I usually carry a couple of those chemical pocket heaters too. Placed under the arms they'll make you sweat bullets.

I don't believe in accidents. Its a cowardly word that someone uses when they screw up. Every effect has a cause. If you die in the woods you made a poor decision somewhere. Natures way of cleaning up the gene pool :p.

Blue Jay
03-19-2003, 10:48
Ow, Mr. Hampster the Gene Pool comment was a little harsh (and coming from me the King of Harsh, that's saying a lot. I believe most accidents are preventable, but some come out of left field where you could not possibly anticipate them. They also come like Murphy's Law, in a series, one after another. Little things that can add up to a tragic outcome. Making a statement like that is tempting fate. Some spirit somewhere could be saying, "Oh he dosen't believe in accident, ay, we'll fix his wagon".

Redbeard
03-19-2003, 11:41
Let's hear it for Murphy's law, the only law of the road! Accident is defined as an event which proceeds from an unknown cause. As cautious as one may be, you can not controll everything. As his holiness Jimmy Page once said, "I'm not afraid of death, death is the last great adventure." So grab your sword and jump in the bottomless pit, how you look at things may be more important than what you're looking at.

Redbeard
03-19-2003, 11:45
Rain gear will not keep you dry, but as mentioned, it can stave off hypothermia. If it is raining cat's and dogs (the world is my litterbox) a sheet of plastic will allow the water to fall to the ground carrying as little of your body heat as possible. If it's that bad, set up a temp shelter, make something hot, and wait for the rain to stop, you can make up the time and miles later.

The Hog
03-19-2003, 12:13
Since this is part of the Ultralight Hikers Forum, I'd be interested to hear other ultralight solutions to rainy, windy, hypothermic weather. To recap what works for me: wind shell upper, wind shell pants, plastic bag pack cover. I don't know what they weigh, but it's pretty close to rock bottom. I would already be carrying a wool or fleece sweater, fleece pants, wool or fleece hat, mittens, and socks, plus a dry change of clothes to get into as soon as I stop. No cotten, it goes without saying. I fully expect to be wet every time I go hiking, so I concentrate on staying warm. Nasty weather is part of the long distance hiking experience, and I've learned to expect that.

Blue Jay
03-19-2003, 14:03
What I use in the Death Zone, which I define as hiking in a 32F to 42F Hard Rain is a Wind Block Fleece, what I call my Battle Fleece (an old mid weight fleece I found in a shelter in TN) and a poly shirt, light weight fleece long underwear pants under synthetic ExOfficio pants. Winter is another story. Above roughly 42, I take off the Wind Block, above roughtly 50 off go both bottom pieces and put on an Exofficio Skirt. There is always a dry set in my kayak bag. Rain water is much much better than sweat. In the summer, unless I'm on Washinton or out west above 6000, no wind block or pants, just battle fleece and skirt.

Peaks
03-19-2003, 17:43
Unfortunately, the first sign of hypothermia is usually the loss of good judgement.

rumbler
03-19-2003, 19:28
The problem I have with all of this is bulk. No, I don't want to get hypo and yes I realize that I may get some cold weather. So I take polypropylene longjohns, convertible hiking pants and fleece pants. I take polypropylene longsleeve shirt (evening shirt unless it's really cold), a short sleeve shirt, a midweight fleece shirt and a fleece jacket. I have a rain poncho and gaiters with a skull cap and five pair of socks.

So on a normal day I might expect to wear the pants, gaiters, cycle through two pair of socks, longsleeve undershirt and short sleeve shirt and hat. This means that I have in my pack four pair of socks, long underwear, fleece pants, a midweight fleece shirt, a warm but bulky fleece jacket, a rain poncho and skullcap. And gloves. I'm ready for the cold snap that I know I might see, but damn my pack is crammed with clothes.

I could lose the midweight fleece shirt and keep the jacket, but the jacket really is bulky. But it's warm and blocks the wind nicely. Maybe I lose the fleece pants, but then all I have are light longjohns and light pants.

I plan to experiment and switch and swap. But - citing the aforementioned Murphy's Law - as soon as I drop one thing I'll get hit with conditions that call for exactly that item. Ah well. Ten days and all of that will be moot as I start my hike and really realize what I have forgotten or mispacked.

Blue Jay
03-20-2003, 08:49
Actually Mr. Peaks there are several signs that occur in first stage hypothermia. Loss of judgement occurs later after shivering stops and after a slight decrease in physical discomfort with out aid such as a chemical heat pads or warm liquids. I think this is the first time I've disagreed with your advise. Like knowing your drunk when you are in fact drunk, a talent few people have, knowing when you are in first or second stage hypothermia is an extremely valuable tool for a hiker.

tlbj6142
04-04-2003, 15:18
Will this thread ever die?!?!

After talking to our local thru-hiker I've become really interested in the wind shell/fleece combo for use as rain gear.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a wind shell that sells for less than $125. Help!

slabfoot
04-04-2003, 15:50
i picked up a water resistant wind jacket at walmart for abt $19.00 last year and k-mart had nike nylon wind pants for about $15.00 on sale too. watch for nylon unlined wind pants and anorak type pullovers at these and other stores. they may not be the prettiest gear but they are rather light and hold up alright. i try to make sure they are not water-proof, so i get the breathability i need. ok?

Colter
04-04-2003, 16:18
I've used a Red Ledge Thunderlight Parka and pants, and thought they were a great combination of light weight, good design and low price.

I think they make a great wind shell and rain gear. I used them in combination with my fleece R2 jacket and a balaclava when it was chilly, and added long underwear when it was cold. Rainwater is better than sweat for many folks, but when it's cold, rainy and windy, I'm a firm believer in rain/wind gear, preferably breathable raingear if I'm working hard on the trail.

tlbj6142
04-21-2003, 15:03
Die, thread. Die. Die. Die.

OK. I wimped out on the "softshell" idea. And, instead bought a set of Rain Shiled's O2 gear from Wally's World for $31.

Items #1001 and Item #1060 on this (http://www.rainshield.com/p_multi.html) page.

I have a trip in May (around Trail Days), I'll leave feedback (if it rains, or is cold and windy).

Top 2XL: 167g (5.9oz)
Bottoms XL: 111g (3.9oz)

The only thing I think they are lacking is some type of body vent/pocket (though I read this stuff is suppose to breath better than g-tex). And elastic cuffs on the pants (use gators, or cycle straps if it is an issue).

Oh yea. And Wally World only sells them in easter egg yellow.

RagingHampster
10-28-2003, 16:46
I still use my $1 Walmart Ozark Trail Poncho.

Just did some rainy below treeline hiking in the whites this past weekend! My TNF Gore-Tex XCR Parka is still collecting dust on a bookshelf in my room...

Cotton T-Shift too :D

I do use a thick Polartec 300 series fleece jacket though.

Glad to see my thread is still alive :p :p :p

Cedar Tree
10-28-2003, 21:11
The Packa
www.thepacka.com
only $110 + $5 shipping.
Be comfortable WHILE you walk with a pack on in bad weather.
Cedar Tree
PS. I like this thread.

Footslogger
10-28-2003, 21:30
For my money it's Frog Toggs. No, they don't fit all that well and Yes, they're not all that durable. But ....and this is a BIG BUT ...you gotta ask yourself how often your really NEED to wear the stuff. First off, once the weather turns warm any pair of rain pants is excess baggage. For that matter, unless you're totally dry and have to go out in the rain, the rain coat itself becomes a bit questionable, other than in cold weather as a warming garment.

I bought the whole Frog Togg set in Hot Springs on this years thru. I sent the pants home immediately and carried only the coat. After about 2 months I ended up bouncing the coat up the trail to Hanover. Face it ...you're gonna get wet, either from the rain or from perspiration under the rain coat. Why not just let your shirt and shorts get wet and let them dry out on a nail in the shelter or clothesline over night ??

Anyway ...just one hikers experience and preference. Something to think about.

Skeemer
10-29-2003, 08:38
I would like to hear some testimonials on The Packa. Does it keep you and the pack dry and is it worth the weight? Comments on ease of use would be appreciated. I know what Footslogger is saying about accepting the fact you will get wet. However, there were cool downpours and mountaintop sections that I used the Walmart $1 emergency parka. I kind of liked it and it definitely helped keep the pack dryer,

Footslogger
10-29-2003, 12:49
Skeemer ...Don't own one but I can give you a second hand testimonial. I covered a lot of miles this year with a hiker who used the Packa from the beginning and swore by it. Her only comment to me was that it was occaionally too warm underneath while she was hiking, even with the pit-zips open. What I did see her do though, which looked interesting, was to use it as a pack cover and just drape the hood over her head. That kept the rain from running down her back under the backpack and also kept her backpack dry.

I borrowed a silnylon parka made by Equinox for a while during my hike. It's similar to the Packa. One thing I didn't like was that the front flap was so long that I kept stepping on it and tripping. Maybe the Packa is cut differently.

tlbj6142
10-29-2003, 13:34
The packa isn't a poncho. It is a jacket with a big lump for the back (to cover the pack). So it doesn't seem like you'd have the wind issues with the packa you have with a poncho.

Cedar Tree
10-29-2003, 16:05
If you go to the Packa Website (www.thepacka.com) there is a comments page with some comments from some packa owners and links to 3 full reviews of the Packa at Backpackgeartest.com, Whiteblaze.net, and thru-hiker.com. Cedar Tree