Which WM shell for use with a Tarptent?

[ZZXF]

We already own almost everything for my husband's and my planned thru-hike next year, except we need to upgrade our tent and sleeping bags to something lighter and better. We're strongly leaning toward the Tarptent Squall 2 and either the Ultralite or the Apache Western Mountaineering Bags. Our question is this: We've heard that single wall silnylon tents tend to mist in a heavy rain. Does this mean we need a more water resistant shell on our down sleeping bags? Would this mean the Ultralite WM bag would be a bad idea? Would the more tightly woven microfiber Apache bag be sufficient, or do we need to go all the way to the dryloft shell?

Also, I presume this combo would be sufficient for a potential mid-February start, given the very true temp ratings of WM bags and that we'd be zipping them together and so get the added warmth of each other?

I've heard a lot of positive things about WM bags and Tarptents -- anyone have any negative experiences?

Thanks for your help.

[bulldog49]

I use the WM Antelope DL for winter trips. It weighs nearly 3 lbs but the Dri-loft shell keeps the down from getting wet in misty or damp environments.

I did a section hike from Sam's Gap to Hot Springs two weeks ago and the bags you mentioned would not have kept me warm as temps were close to single digits.

If you go with the Ultra Light you might want to consider something like the Bibler Winter Bivy. IT's fairly light weight, about 9 ozs, and made of Epic. That will add some warmth and will keep your bag dry from condensation.

http://www.bdel.com/gear/winter_bivy.php

[Seeker]

i live in LA (loozy-anna, not Los Angaleese)... either place is warm though, so i'm happy year round with a WM Caribou MF. i've made a depression in the cover (not over a seam, just in the fabric) and it's held water with no dampening of the down for about 3 hours, when i quit the experiment. MF is amazing stuff. never used an Ultralight, but its larger brother the alpinlite would be my next bag purchase even if it didn't hold water as well (but then i'm a hammocker, and don't get wet much) as one with MF fabric.

i did get some condensation/knockoff spray on the underside of my silnylon tarp one time, and it got on the bag, but there was little impact... i slept right through it once i got used to the slight misting effect on my face.

if you have a good outfitter, maybe they'd let you test the water-proofness of the ultralite with a display model... if not, maybe they're not interested in you, just your money...

[chris]

Don't worry about the misting in the rain. Rain isn't where condensation seems to happen most in my experience with the tarptent design (Virga with a WM UL). Condensation occurs for a variety of reasons and sometimes cannot be avoided. Camping in thick trees (so, not in a field) helps a ton. Even pitching under the branches of a tree helps. The shell of my bag is frequently slightly damp to the touch, but normally this only happens out west, not in the east, where the temperature gradient overnight is not too severe.

For the AT, I wouldn't worry much about getting a stronger shell for the bag. The standard light one on the WM UL or HL will be fine. When my UL eventually dies (which might never happen), I'll seriously consider getting a dryloft or eVENT shell on my new sleeping bag, mostly because most of what I do is in the west now.

So, go for the Squall and the WM Ultralight (one of the best pieces of gear I own and heavily used) and rest assured.

[walkon]

i definately agree with Chris about the Ultralight, carried it in '03 on AT and it still serves me well. WM makes some quality gear.
the condensation will not hurt the down, and the bag will dry very quickly (with a little help from the sun).

[rumbler]

The WM bags should be fine as long as you are smart about how you set up your shelter. As mentioned, the bag is basically built to handle condensation. Keep it away from rain, puddles and your wet clothes and it should perform well.

I am not sure that a 20F bag will keep you warm in February though. Others with more experience can speak of AT temperatures in February, but you will have sub-freezing temperatures, snow and ice through April or early May on your hike, and the possibility of really severe weather in February at elevation would have me very leery of a lightweight 20F bag from any manufacturer.

Leaving that early would, in my opinion, require at least a zeroF bag through the smokies to be comfortable and safe. February can bring the worst winter storms of the year - if you want to start a thru-hike at that time then your gear should reflect that.

[brancher]

But what about all that condensation?

I owned a Golite Trig2 a couple of years ago, and I found that it was totally unacceptable in the Appalachian area. Although it was light enough and easy to erect, the condensation problem was terrible, even with the side vents open. And, during any rainstorm, it sagged to beat the band. I got really tired of having to shimmy out of the tent every morning so as not to get drenched. Eventually, I ended up putting it on Ebay and going to my HH Exp Asym. The hammock is great to sleep in, but has some issues with gear storage, privacy, etc.

Fast-forward to today: I just bought a bunch of silnylon to make another tarp, and I'm toying with the idea of doing an original Tarptent with extra netting and no floor. Does anyone have a lot of experience with these things? I've read how great they are out west, where it doesn't rain 15 days a month (like it does here sometimes), but I have my doubts about them around here. What about the condensation piece? Are they really better ventilated than the Golite products? How about sagging? Anyone used these things for long trips here in the East?

Lastly, as far as the bag, I did a Smokeys trip 3 weeks ago - 10-20F at night, ice storms, 8 in snow above 3000 ft, ice inside the tent, you know, all the stuff. My 15F Sierra designs bag did fine at with midweight polypros and ragwool socks (and head cover).

br

[hopefulhiker]

I had a similar set up last year and experienced the micro showers inside the Tarptent when I first started out..Then I watched a nature show by a professor at the campground with that giant hostel at the halfway point.. Anyway he said that the condensation is due to a big temperature difference between the outside and the inside.. The way to keep the condensation down, especially in the summer is to sleep colder... that is open up the sleeping bag, try to get a little breeze flowing through the tent... This lowers the temperature difference. In Maryland, I used this technique at a stealth campsite and was dry as a bone during a 4 inch flood. Henry Shires says that too much wind and too little wind are the enemies of the tarp tent...
Also I would forget the vapor barrier because it ended up making the sleeping bag wet with condensation of sweat.....