Section Hiking Etiquette

[ghetto-okie]

Planning on doing a NOBO section beginning in Damascus after trail days. This will be our first hike. At the risk of being roasted, other than the golden rule, what are helpful tips to section hikers from a thru hikers perspective? TIA

[GoldenBear]

https://lifehacker.com/the-hikers-guide-to-trail-etiquette-1827102953
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/129942-A-Hiker-s-Guide-to-Trail-Etiquette?highlight=etiquette

Section hiker, thru-hiker, Triple Crown hiker -- it doesn't matter.
Indeed, on the Trail, off the Trail; it doesn't matter -- "don't be a self-centered jerk" covers about 90% of it.

[Ankle Bone]

https://lifehacker.com/the-hikers-guide-to-trail-etiquette-1827102953
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/129942-A-Hiker-s-Guide-to-Trail-Etiquette?highlight=etiquette

Section hiker, thru-hiker, Triple Crown -- it doesn't matter.
Indeed, on the Trail, off the Trail; it doesn't matter -- "don't be a self-centered jerk" covers about 90% of it.

Yep. That covers it.

[Lone Wolf]

Planning on doing a NOBO section beginning in Damascus after trail days. This will be our first hike. At the risk of being roasted, other than the golden rule, what are helpful tips to section hikers from a thru hikers perspective? TIA

you're no different than a so-called "thru-hiker". it's just walkin'

[Slo-go'en]

All I can say is really bad timing. 100's leave NOBO out of Trail Days. Talk about crowds and standing room only at campsites. In fact, the whole state of Virginia suddenly fills up as groups of 20 or 30 are dropped off at every trailhead in the state. It takes a while for things to settle down again and the crowd to disperse. I'd wait a week or two..

[Dogwood]

Planning on doing a NOBO section beginning in Damascus after trail days. This will be our first hike. At the risk of being roasted, other than the golden rule, what are helpful tips to section hikers from a thru hikers perspective? TIA


All I can say is really bad timing. 100's leave NOBO out of Trail Days. Talk about crowds and standing room only at campsites. In fact, the whole state of Virginia suddenly fills up as groups of 20 or 30 are dropped off at every trailhead in the state. It takes a while for things to settle down again and the crowd to disperse. I'd wait a week or two..
This. Ever been to a rodeo to watch the bull riding competitions or participated in Pamplona's Running of the Bulls? It's kinda like that but many more bulls.

Re: start at least 100 miles from Damascus and come back to Damascus to finish the skipped segment.

Although your party may feel no different, no more entitled than wannabe AT thru hikers Thru hiker Gods dont feel the same.

[ghetto-okie]

Thank you! I've been reading a lot of thru hiker's books and most of them sort of down section hikers because of their behavior or just because they believe they're superior. We're definitely not ******** but I wanted to see if there were "unwritten" rules. I appreciate your help :)

[ghetto-okie]

Although your party may feel no different, no more entitled than wannabe AT thru hikers Thru hiker Gods dont feel the same.[/QUOTE]

We definitely know we're not thru hikers nor are we pretending to be. I can speak for my group in saying that we have the ultimate respect for thru hikers. We have no intention on giving anyone a bad experience with us around. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

Starting at trail days is something we just want to experience. Our plan is to be there 1 day and hike out.

Thanks again!

[RockDoc]

Section hiking is underrated. You don't lose your enthusiasm, you don't get bored, you don't start to hate your hike.

Truth be told, most of the so called thru hikers are really section hikers.

[Astro]

All I can say is really bad timing. 100's leave NOBO out of Trail Days. Talk about crowds and standing room only at campsites. In fact, the whole state of Virginia suddenly fills up as groups of 20 or 30 are dropped off at every trailhead in the state. It takes a while for things to settle down again and the crowd to disperse. I'd wait a week or two..

Or leave Damascus SoBo and you will be going the opposite direction of the crowd.

[KnightErrant]

No different from basic hiking etiquette. As long as you don't hog the shelter or other common spaces, fail to pack out your trash, make disparaging comments, or generally act like a jerk, then most thru hikers will be happy to be sharing a trail with you. When I was thru-hiking, if I ever got exasperated at shorter-term hikers, it was for those same behaviors that would annoy me from fellow thru-hikers.

Most etiquette is self-explanatory, like not littering, etc. A couple things that I learned along the way that were a little less obvious (at least, not obvious to me when I started section hiking in the years before my thru, since I had absolutely zero backpacking experience) were to use my headlamp's red light setting at night to be less disruptive to others, to yield right-of-way to a hiker moving uphill, and to minimize erosion by using rubber caps on trekking poles and not cutting switchbacks. If you've done some research and have some experience, none of that will be new to you, but thought I'd offer some more specific and obscure examples of etiquette that were not as immediately obvious to me as simply "don't be a jerk."

Enjoy your hike!!

[Hikemor]

Hiking southbound TO Trail Days or FROM Trail Days will likely be a more pleasant experience.

[Slo-go'en]

Hiking southbound TO Trail Days or FROM Trail Days will likely be a more pleasant experience.

There are quite a few people who hike to Trail days, starting a few days north or south. The whole area is congested that weekend and a week on either side of it.

[FreeGoldRush]

There was one common difference with section hikers during my thru: They tend to stay up late, start late, make a bit more noise, and just sometimes complain about thru hikers moving around too early. It really was never an issue. My rule was that after sunrise it was ok to talk softly but in a normal voice around camp. After sunset it was not ok. Section hikers sometimes had different ideas.

This is really nitpicking. I only bring this up because someone asked. We all walk, eat, sleep and ask how the water source is flowing. No different.

[Dogwood]

Identity politics and tribal consciousness can play out on the trail unrelated to Political affiliations. Many hikers have to label themselves and then force knowledge of that identity on others. Different categories trend towards having greater camaraderie with others whom they identify. Cliques can form. Dont let that be your organizing guide for your hike.

Everyone is not the same on trail, taking the same approaches, have the same time on trail, etc. Embrace that diversity and escape from hardline Tribalism and Identity politics. Everyone and everything has value. Find ways to be gracious finding ways to always be grateful. It makes for better hiking experiences including personally being more agreeable.

If crowded AT shelters every night, and all that can entail, becomes overwhelming don't make it your daily camping site(CS) modus operandi. Stay elsewhere for a break. Plenty of CS's. As a cautionary point I would make it a point not too because the Trail Days rowdiness and human congregation consequences(spreading of viruses for example) can then extend to the AT.

[Traveler]

There was one common difference with section hikers during my thru: They tend to stay up late, start late, make a bit more noise, and just sometimes complain about thru hikers moving around too early. It really was never an issue. My rule was that after sunrise it was ok to talk softly but in a normal voice around camp. After sunset it was not ok. Section hikers sometimes had different ideas.


Sweeping generalizations aside, unless someone says they are a through hiker or section hiker it can be difficult to tell who is what. Though their time may be limited to a few weeks a year, section hikers can have many years of AT experience and a pretty deep understanding of trail etiquette. Thats not to say some section hikers and thru hikers opt to behave poorly and demonstrate their lack of understanding, however it is difficult to say one group is different than the other in this regard.

[Gambit McCrae]

To keep in centered to etiquette...things people typically do not like
If you are a family large enough to consume a large portion of the shelter, tent
dont bob down the trail with a speaker blaring
leave lid closed on trail toilets
dont use the shelter as a kitchen
dont litter
if you take a dog keep it from barking the entire time in camp

[stephanD]

Section hikers, like myself, tend to be older, less fit and probably have a better credit score. Otherwise, it is a false dichotomy. The same rules apply to everybody.

[FreeGoldRush]

Sweeping generalizations aside, unless someone says they are a through hiker or section hiker it can be difficult to tell who is what.
After a couple of months on the trail it’s not hard to tell. Living in the trail grind for a while changes your body, your thoughts, motivations, etc. You can spot it right away as they are coming down the trail. It’s really no big deal. Hardly worth discussing. But section and thru hikers each share slightly different challenges. A thru may feel a bit jealous when a section hiker talks about what they will be doing next week when off the trail. A section hiker generally has a good hiking plan, while a thru hiker tends to wing it more often. Section and thru hikers rarely do similar daily mileage, and therefore are more familiar with different groups of people out on the trail.

And very often the section hiker has better hygiene.

And yes, sometimes these differences lead one hiker to feel superior over another. It’s no different than the real world. If that offends someone then they aren’t fully mature yet. This has been going on for all of time. The good news is that overall hikers are very easy to get along with.

[tiptoe]

Basic good manners and a positive attitude will take you a long way on the trail, just as they would anywhere. Don't be intimidated; remember that everyone was a noob at one point. Just enjoy yourselves and learn what you can.

[LittleRock]

There was one common difference with section hikers during my thru: They tend to stay up late, start late, make a bit more noise, and just sometimes complain about thru hikers moving around too early. It really was never an issue. My rule was that after sunrise it was ok to talk softly but in a normal voice around camp. After sunset it was not ok. Section hikers sometimes had different ideas.

That's funny, I experienced the exact opposite on my last section hike. It was fall and the days were getting shorter, thrus (all SOBO) would come in after dark and complain about having to night hike to make 20 mile days, but then they'd still be asleep at 8:00 when I left the shelter.

[Dogwood]

About 1 in 4 or 1 in 5, about 20-25% AT thru-hiker attempters complete the trail as a thru-hiker. That means 75-80% of those identifying themselves as thru hikers are actually section hikers. Many just don't know it yet.

Remember that when AT thru hikers start posturing and grandstanding.

[Puddlefish]

Before my thru-hike attempt... I'd hiked a whole lot, but I had zero backpacking/camping experience. Etiquette was one of those things I worried about. My short answer is, don't worry about it. No one else on the trail has a clue either, and those with the strongest opinions about it are often the rudest to others.

The example I like to use is this: Old guy gets angry at the young kids staying up late and making noise at the shelter, because "everyone knows" that hiker midnight is 9:00 pm... or 8:00 pm or some other arbitrary time. The young folks get angry at the old guys who wake up at 5:00 a.m. and have full volume conversations as they stomp around, because "everyone knows" that you should be quiet in the morning when people are trying to sleep. Simply, people tend to look at proper etiquette as that which benefits their style of hiking.

I made a pre-hike commitment not to be the "trail police" because I didn't want to raise my own stress levels. Being around people, someone is going to piss you off eventually, but... it's entirely your decision on how to deal with it. When some jerk kept me awake at night, I still rose early, and quietly and made every effort to depart without waking anyone. Other folks seemingly try to get revenge, and end up waking everyone at the shelter to prove their little point.

If you're considerate enough to even ask the question, you'll be fine.

[FreeGoldRush]

About 1 in 4 or 1 in 5, about 20-25% AT thru-hiker attempters complete the trail as a thru-hiker. That means 75-80% of those identifying themselves as thru hikers are actually section hikers. Many just don't know it yet.
Remember that when AT thru hikers start posturing and grandstanding.
This needs clarification. If you place yourself at a random position on the trail and talk to the next person who walks by who is attempting a thru hike, their odds of success are FAR higher than 25%. If someone needs a breakdown showing how probability theory produces this result I will be happy to explain.

Most of the people I hiked with for more than one day were section hikers. Thru hikers generally are not at all arrogant around section hikers. But every group has its exceptions.

[Alligator]

This needs clarification. If you place yourself at a random position on the trail and talk to the next person who walks by who is attempting a thru hike, their odds of success are FAR higher than 25%. If someone needs a breakdown showing how probability theory produces this result I will be happy to explain.
...I don't think you are exactly right but you have some wiggle room. It's completely true at Springer for Nobos. Also, initial dropout rates are higher I'm fairly certain. So more people quit earlier and to balance out the 20-25% overall, less people quit later. It's not a steady 20-25% throughout the trail. I'm not sure the SOBO percentage is the same as well You have also rephrased it differently than Dogwood said it, he didn't exactly condition it like you did. Plus "odds" are different than percentages.

[Dogwood]

Very cordial post Puddlefish. However, that's shelter etiquette which does not have to be part of trail etiquette...if shelters aren't the thing an AT hike is based. :)

@FGR. Look at ATC gathered stats. They are also accumulated by some others. It's drizzling in Alpharetta. It's friday. None the less time for a 5 miler one way to WF at Avalon(always on a trail food quest) and the Starbucks across the street on Old Milton. C'mon around. We'll talk. I'll be the one with the 1000 yd stare looking like a cross between someone who just rolled out of the woods, a runner, and a UL backpacker. Look at the shoes. They are telling. :-?

Thru hikers generally are not at all arrogant around section hikers. But every group has its exceptions.

In general I 100% agree. It's when the ego level and supposed uniqueness of being a LD backpacker gets too far out in front which can be a more common trait of Newb LD wannabe thru hikers...which the AT is known compared to go with the flow I got better things to do I'm in The Zone mindsets of self directed all in LD serialists. :cool: You're last two yr trail resume tells me maybe your not as raw to LD hiking as raw Newbs.

[FreeGoldRush]

Dogwood, your stats are correct. I am well aware of them. But some will misunderstand that to mean that 25% of those they meet on the trail attempting a thru have a probability of 20% to 25% of being successful. I do this stuff for a living. The odds of the thru hiker you meet having a 25% chance of success only applies if you meet them on day 1 of their hike. You are very unlikely to meet them on day 1. At the other extreme is the SOBO thru hike attempt you meet on Blood Mountain. Their probability (not “odds”, thank you) of success is near 100%. Also consider that the successful thru hiker spends many more days on the trail than the average failed thru hike attempt. So if you locate yourself randomly on the trail you are more likely to see the thru hiker hopeful who is spending more time on the trail and less likely to see one who is spending less time.

It is easy to put real numbers to this and tell you the odds that the person you meet attempting a thru hike will go on to finish. But you have to make some assumptions about where people tend to drop out. We know that about 25% drop out in the first week, whether NOBO or SOBO. The rest of that data isn’t so accurate.

Probability theory is often very non-intuitive and generates surprising results.

[lonehiker]

You are over thinking it. Start where/when you want, hike the direction you like, and enjoy yourself.

[FreeGoldRush]

Dogwood, your stats are correct. I am well aware of them. But some will misunderstand that to mean that 25% of those they meet on the trail attempting a thru have a probability of 20% to 25% of being successful.
Ugh. Have to correct my typo. Trying to do this on an iPhone. It should read “some will misunderstand this to mean that when they meet a thru hiker on the trail that person has a 25% chance of finishing the entire trail.” The probability of any thru you meet finishing is actually much higher.

[Alligator]

Ugh. Have to correct my typo. Trying to do this on an iPhone. It should read “some will misunderstand this to mean that when they meet a thru hiker on the trail that person has a 25% chance of finishing the entire trail.” The probability of any thru you meet finishing is actually much higher.You haven't proved your assumption.

Suppose the probability that any thru drops out follows a memoryless distribution. Then the 25% success rate (75% dropout rate) would be always true.
If it doesn't, suppose after the first week or two people drop out less often (or more often). That 25% will fluctuate, perhaps significantly. It's real world data and won't always be in one direction like you say. If it doesn't fluctuate significantly it is effectively memoryless.

[Slo-go'en]

Ugh. Have to correct my typo. Trying to do this on an iPhone. It should read “some will misunderstand this to mean that when they meet a thru hiker on the trail that person has a 25% chance of finishing the entire trail.” The probability of any thru you meet finishing is actually much higher.

The probability of any thru hiker you meet finishing is highly dependent on where and when you meet them. If you meet a NOBO in NH in August, there is a good chance they will finish. If you meet a through hiker in Hot Springs in April, the chances of them finishing are much smaller. Meet them in PA in June, more like 50-50 chance.

Etiquette should be the same for everyone. Mostly it applies to shelter stays or when in close proximity to others.

Keep quiet when it's dark is rule #1. If you snore like a banshee, please stay out of shelters. If you must pack up before dawn, get well prepared the night before so you can do it quickly and away from the shelter. Not at the picnic table right in front. Or tent.

[Berserker]

As per many of the responses you got here, you're no different than anyone else out there. The AT is public property and as such everyone has the same right to be out there and use it.

Now I get the just of your question in that when one is hiking a small piece of the AT or starting section hiking it's easy to get wide eyed and put the thru hikers up on a pedestal as if they have some special status. I actually did this for the first few years of my section hikes. Then once I got some experience under my belt and some miles behind me I realized that there's no difference between myself and anyone else out there. We all are out there to hike and enjoy getting away from the grind. Whether it be for a day, week, month or whatever.

So just go out there and enjoy yourself and the company of like minded others.

And for the record, it's pretty funny how section hikers are viewed. You will get a lot of "oh your just a section hiker" type inflections when you tell people that you are section hiking, especially from thrus early in their hikes, locals and weekenders. What really opened my eyes was the awe some of the thrus had when they found out I was a section hiker finishing up 13 years of section hiking the trail this past August. I ran into several in the HMW and on Katahdin, and it was really neat to share true mutual respect for each others accomplishments.

[FreeGoldRush]

You haven't proved your assumption.
Suppose the probability that any thru drops out follows a memoryless distribution. Then the 25% success rate (75% dropout rate) would be always true.
If it doesn't, suppose after the first week or two people drop out less often (or more often). That 25% will fluctuate, perhaps significantly. It's real world data and won't always be in one direction like you say. If it doesn't fluctuate significantly it is effectively memoryless.
I wasn’t attempting to prove it. I was simply trying to explain it in an easy to understand way. This isn’t the place for me to give a math lesson that very few people here are interested in. It’s not even clear to me where one should begin the math lesson for this audience. I am qualified to teach a course in probability theory, have a post graduate degree where I did this stuff for years, but this isn’t the place. What I have said on this subject is accurate.

But I will give one more quick example instead of writing pages of mathematically proof.

If 25% of NOBOs drop out in the first 31.3 miles (Neels Gap), then 1/3 of the remaining hikers will successfully complete a thru based on an overall 25% completion rate. If you stand at a random place on the trail then your probability of being north of Neels gap is .9875. The first thru you see if standing north of Neels Gap Now has a probability of finishing that is better than 25%. In fact, it is 33.3% or better, depending on where you randomly stood north of Neels Gap. So no, the success rate of a thru found ON THE TRAIL is not always 25%.

If you stand at the Springer Parking lot in the fall and meet a SOBO their probability of success at that time is far more than 25%. It is now nearly 100% since they only have one more mile to go.

Disclaimer: This message does not fully describe all outcomes. It simply provides part of the picture that hopefully helps with an understanding and demonstrates how your statement that the “25% success rate would always be true” is wrong. The success probability of an average thru improves as miles are completed.

A memoryless distribution will be exponential. We could certainly build some good guesses at a probability distribution that describes the dropout rate, but that won’t change anything I have already stated.

[skater]

As a trail maintainer in Georgia, I can say we LOVE section hikers. You help spread the load out so we don't have everyone crowding the first 80 miles of trail over the first 6 weeks of the season. (Ditto to all you SOBOs and flip-floppers.)

[Hikingjim]

I wasn’t attempting to prove it. I was simply trying to explain it in an easy to understand way. This isn’t the place for me to give a math lesson that very few people here are interested in. It’s not even clear to me where one should begin the math lesson for this audience. I am qualified to teach a course in probability theory, have a post graduate degree where I did this stuff for years, but this isn’t the place. What I have said on this subject is accurate.
But I will give one more quick example instead of writing pages of mathematically proof.
If 25% of NOBOs drop out in the first 31.3 miles (Neels Gap), then 1/3 of the remaining hikers will successfully complete a thru based on an overall 25% completion rate. If you stand at a random place on the trail then your probability of being north of Neels gap is .9875. The first thru you see if standing north of Neels Gap Now has a probability of finishing that is better than 25%. In fact, it is 33.3% or better, depending on where you randomly stood north of Neels Gap. So no, the success rate of a thru found ON THE TRAIL is not always 25%.
If you stand at the Springer Parking lot in the fall and meet a SOBO their probability of success at that time is far more than 25%. It is now nearly 100% since they only have one more mile to go.
Disclaimer: This message does not fully describe all outcomes. It simply provides part of the picture that hopefully helps with an understanding and demonstrates how your statement that the “25% success rate would always be true” is wrong. The success probability of an average thru improves as miles are completed.
A memoryless distribution will be exponential. We could certainly build some good guesses at a probability distribution that describes the dropout rate, but that won’t change anything I have already stated.

Yes, 25% success should be the lowest rate you would find on a section (ie: the start of the trail passing all the new crew). Could be as high as 50% for the half way point
So the average success rate at a random location is clearly 36.2988378947348933789478347789389789378943%, of course assuming the number of gale force wind days does not exceed 9.51%, and the norovirus rates are in line with expectation.

[Alligator]

We'll take it to PM FreeGoldRush so as not to hijack the thread further.

[Deadeye]

There was one common difference with section hikers during my thru: They tend to stay up late, start late, make a bit more noise, and just sometimes complain about thru hikers moving around too early.

I couldn't tell the difference. If anything, the late night hikers I've run into are the thru hikers, the psycho-lite 40 miles per day folks, or those seeking FKTs. I was hiking at the same pace as a bunch of thrus for a few days, some were night owls, others were the early birds. As near as I could tell, they were all people, and behaved for the most part... like people.

[Night Train]

you are over thinking it. Start where/when you want, hike the direction you like, and enjoy yourself.

yes indeed!

[steve_zavocki]

To the original poster: Here is what I did with my 4 kids and nephew on a section hike in 2018. We arrived in Damascus at about 1PM on Friday, the first day of trail days. We walked around trail days for about 2 hours to take in the experience, and buy a few things. Festival is free, but $10 to park. It was a cool experience and I got to meet a couple hikers whose vlogs I followed. We then drove our car to Fox Creek and met a shuttle driver there, James McConnell. We then shuttled back to Beartree trail where he dropped us off. It is short side walk to the AT at mile 482.4. We then hiked back to Fox Creek finishing Sunday evening.

My point in commenting is that the shelters and campsites were sparsely populated. There were a few others out there, but most of the crowds were at trail days. Now, if we stayed out after Sunday (the last day of trail days) then it might have been a different story. I did notice quite a few people at Old Orchard shelter Sunday afternoon right before we finished at Fox Creek.

Here was our itinerary:


Date
Miles
State
Direction
Starting Point
Mile #
Ending Point
Mile #




5/18/2018
4.2
VA
North
Beartree Gap
482.4
Lost Mountain Shelter
486.6


5/19/2018
12.4
VA
North
Lost Mountain Shelter
486.6
Thomas Knob Shelter
499.0


5/20/2018
12.7
VA
North
Thomas Knob Shelter
499.0
Fox Creek Trailhead
511.7

[peakbagger]

I sectioned the AT over 10 years. I found that the closer I got to Springer my encounters with so called thru hikers degraded. Lots of folks who claimed to be thru hikers who actually where out to party. Once clear of Trail days, folks seemed to get their manners.

[QuietStorm]

I've been sectioning since June, 2016 and have 2,003.8 miles done (plus a lot of repeat sections, but I don't count those). During thru-hiking season I've met a wide range of hikers--some travel in tramilies and interact very little with anyone, let alone 'just a section hiker.' Some will ask me what I'm doing, and upon learning that I'm section hiking, will stop interacting with me. And some will treat me just like anyone else. The best thru hikers were those I met in Maine this September. I guess they figured if I had hiked just as many miles as them there really wasn't much of a difference, and frankly acknowledged how hard it was to hike that section without trail legs. Anyway, hikers are all different. Anyone who takes on the AT deserves respect, whether it's for a day, week, month, or six months.

[JPritch]

And for the record, it's pretty funny how section hikers are viewed. You will get a lot of "oh your just a section hiker" type inflections when you tell people that you are section hiking, especially from thrus early in their hikes, locals and weekenders.

I've experienced this myself. It seems the "oh you're just" mentality is inversely related to miles spent on the trail.

[colorado_rob]

Funny, when I'm doing long section hikes and hiking in the midst of a bunch of wanna-be thru hikers, at first, yeah, they are kind of aloof, for the most part. But give 'em a couple days and they have always come around and "adopted" me into their little clique, not that this was important. An exception to this is way up north, where the groups finishing the trail are really burnt out, it seems, they just wanna get done.

Just semantics I suppose, but until a hiker finishes a long trail he is NOT a thru hiker of that trail, nor is he/she ever likely to be one, given the odds we all know (unless we're talking well along the trail). We all know this, and I'm being picky on semantics, I know.

[Tipi Walter]

Section hiker, thru-hiker, Triple Crown hiker -- it doesn't matter.
Indeed, on the Trail, off the Trail; it doesn't matter -- "don't be a self-centered jerk" covers about 90% of it.

I put no importance or distinctions between thruhikers or section hikers or even dayhikers. We're either outside backpacking or we're not. We're either backpacking on this foot trail or that foot trail---whether the AT or the Bartram or the BMT or in Cohutta or the Smokies or wherever else. "Are you a thruhiker/section hiker/dayhiker" etc??? "No, I'm a Backpacker."


Many hikers have to label themselves and then force knowledge of that identity on others.



The only label I'm interested in and which has any meaning for me is whether that person is a Backpacker and is outdoors---or is not outdoors and stuck indoors.


Etiquette should be the same for everyone. Mostly it applies to shelter stays or when in close proximity to others.
Keep quiet when it's dark is rule #1. If you snore like a banshee, please stay out of shelters. If you must pack up before dawn, get well prepared the night before so you can do it quickly and away from the shelter. Not at the picnic table right in front. Or tent.

The word "etiquette" is a strange word to come up on a backpacking website but we're dealing with the swarms of people on the AT and the crowded AT shelter system. So I guess Etiquette is relevant, assuming it means our behavior with other people. Then again, when I pull a backpacking trip on the AT I always camp between trail shelters mainly to avoid other hikers in a camping situation. In this way I don't concern myself with "etiquette". Out of sight (away from shelters), Out of Mind.

And it's funny to think AT shelters have "rules" when in fact they are rat boxes open to anyone at any time for nearly any activity. Squatting in one gives you no rights whatsoever.

Beyond all this, I'm more interested in the etiquette we display with trailside copperheads and rattlesnakes and with our campfires and littering and waste disposal.

[Slumgum]

Then again, when I pull a backpacking trip on the AT I always camp between trail shelters mainly to avoid other hikers in a camping situation. In this way I don't concern myself with "etiquette". Out of sight (away from shelters), Out of Mind.

And it's funny to think AT shelters have "rules" when in fact they are rat boxes open to anyone at any time for nearly any activity. Squatting in one gives you no rights whatsoever.

I echo Tipi Walter's sentiments regarding categorizing hikers, though sometimes I feel in the minority. Heck, I even saw animosity between SOBOs and NOBOs. Some people just need to give it a rest.

I, too, much prefer camping away from shelters and established campgrounds. However, a large percentage of the trail (mainly in the northeast) requires hikers to camp in designated sites. I'd be interested in hearing from Walter (and others) as to what approach they take in those areas. I will refrain from giving details on my way of dealing with it.

Etiquette; yes, there is a need for it. For example, if you are a NOBO thru hiker it may be of little consequence to you who yields right of way since you might go days without encountering a SOBO hiker. But if you are hiking south from HF in April, at some point you will be encountering 30 to 60 hikers/day every day. It gets a little old being run off the trail by hikers who do not know (or do not care) that uphill has the right of way. Not saying it wouldn't be the same situation if there was a hand full of NOBOs facing a huge mass of SOBOs.

Common courtesy can be in short supply at times. If it is dusk and there are two tents set up in an isolated corner of a campground, it is probably NOT a good idea for a group of hikers to set up a campfire right next to them and howl at the moon into the wee hours! Yet, it happens. What really burns me (sorry for the pun) are nicotine addicts. I get the whole "live and let live" thing, but that philosophy is a two way street. If hikers want to partake, that is their business. Don't assume I enjoy or even tolerate your second hand smoke.

[kestral]

Don't assume I enjoy or even tolerate your second hand smoke.[/QUOTE]

Totally relate to this. Cigarette smoke gives me migraines which can last for over a day. That’s a major reason why I avoid designated camping areas.

[Traveler]

Just semantics I suppose, but until a hiker finishes a long trail he is NOT a thru hiker of that trail, nor is he/she ever likely to be one, given the odds we all know (unless we're talking well along the trail). We all know this, and I'm being picky on semantics, I know.

I've always enjoyed this philosophical conundrum, one is not a "thru hiker" until they have hiked the entire trail, nor can they be a thru hiker after they have completed the trail as the "title" becomes past tense.

[FreeGoldRush]

I've always enjoyed this philosophical conundrum, one is not a "thru hiker" until they have hiked the entire trail, nor can they be a thru hiker after they have completed the trail as the "title" becomes past tense.
You are either attempting a thru hike or you may be a former thru hiker. But many did say, “I’m thru hiking.” This would be correct but it sounds a little silly during the first 500 miles where the failure rate is high and the accomplishment at that point is still low.

Not once this year did I hear someone say they are a thru hiker. But many were thru hiking.

[colorado_rob]

You are either attempting a thru hike or you may be a former thru hiker. But many did say, “I’m thru hiking.”
My little quip, admittedly not very funny, but at least my wife smiled when I said it, when hiking north on the AT, passing day hikers going south, many would ask me "Are you through hiking?" I would always respond "No, not yet, still at it, but if I have another bad day, yeah, I'll be through hiking !"

[Slo-go'en]

Saying your a thru hiker simply indicates your goal is to hike the whole thing in one go and in for the long haul. Whether you do or not is debatable.

I'm been answering the "are you thru hiking?" question for years by saying "nope, not yet".

[BillyGr]

Etiquette; yes, there is a need for it. For example, if you are a NOBO thru hiker it may be of little consequence to you who yields right of way since you might go days without encountering a SOBO hiker. But if you are hiking south from HF in April, at some point you will be encountering 30 to 60 hikers/day every day. It gets a little old being run off the trail by hikers who do not know (or do not care) that uphill has the right of way. Not saying it wouldn't be the same situation if there was a hand full of NOBOs facing a huge mass of SOBOs.


That always seems a bit backward for a couple reasons:

First being that it is usually easier for someone going uphill to stop than for someone going downhill (simple gravity rules) and second being that many, if not most times those going uphill would rather have the short break versus having to keep moving to get past those going the opposite way, particularly on the steeper sections of trail.

Not sure how it came to be that way rather than the opposite.

[Slo-go'en]

I also always felt the uphill right of way was silly. I always stop for down hillers. I was going to stop anyway.

[Slumgum]

That always seems a bit backward for a couple reasons:

First being that it is usually easier for someone going uphill to stop than for someone going downhill (simple gravity rules) and second being that many, if not most times those going uphill would rather have the short break versus having to keep moving to get past those going the opposite way, particularly on the steeper sections of trail.

Not sure how it came to be that way rather than the opposite.

To my way of thinking it is all about momentum. Yes, it is easier to stop when going uphill, but it is also much harder to get going again. Like I stated, if you are in the directional minority, having to stop multiple times going uphill and then restart adds up. Conversely, downhill it is a piece of cake to get going again since you have gravity in your favor.

Also, hikers tend to focus on the trail right in front of them. That means uphill hikers tend to be much slower in recognizing an approaching hiker especially in rough, steep terrain. Consequently they have less time to find a wide place to get off the trail. Can't tell you how many times an uphill hiker was startled as they passed me since they didn't even see me until they were right next to where I had stepped off the trail to let them pass.

If you need a break, you can stop any time. No need to wait for an oncoming hiker as a "reason" to rest. However, if this is the way you want to operate, please, please don't wait until the uphill hiker has pulled off the trail to decide you are going to take a break. It is inconsiderate to have someone make the effort to follow standard trail protocol and then ignore it. No reason for BOTH hikers to stop.

I did not write the rules of trail etiquette, but the "right of way" policy is well established.

[Traveler]

Yielding right of way is a fairly old and common social contract that is observed in situations that involve how foot, road, or nautical traffic should behave. The "rule" tends to yield right of way to the slower and/or less maneuverable traffic, which in this instance would be the uphill hiker versus the downhill hiker. Uphill hiking generally is slow, has limited visibility, and typically finds a rhythm or momentum pace for the section of trail that will carry the hiker through the climb. Once the pace or momentum is broken, it can be difficult to reestablish that rhythm or pace quickly, making the climb that much more difficult.

Not to put too fine a point on this, the differences between the uphill and downhill hiker are significant. When approaching an uphill hiker, the downhill hiker has the advantage of speed, maneuverability, the ability to more quickly see places to pause, and can usually reach them with undue effort for the most part. The uphill hiker is typically focused on the 6-foot of trail immediately in front of them, with occasional glances uphill to verify blazes and routing of the trail. I have to admit being startled when in the "zone", slogging out a long climb to see boots just off to my side as I pass someone I didn't notice was there. Though some people prefer not to pause their downhill descent and will shoulder their way past the uphill hiker regardless of terrain and room to pass, most people recognize right of way and will stop to allow the uphiller to pass.

I always acknowledge when people yield to me when I am going uphill, though sometimes its just a nod when there is little breath to spare for a verbal exchange, it is something that should be recognized and reinforced.

[greensleep]

Yielding right of way is a fairly old and common social contract that is observed in situations that involve how foot, road, or nautical traffic should behave. The "rule" tends to yield right of way to the slower and/or less maneuverable traffic, which in this instance would be the uphill hiker versus the downhill hiker. Uphill hiking generally is slow, has limited visibility, and typically finds a rhythm or momentum pace for the section of trail that will carry the hiker through the climb. Once the pace or momentum is broken, it can be difficult to reestablish that rhythm or pace quickly, making the climb that much more difficult.

Not to put too fine a point on this, the differences between the uphill and downhill hiker are significant. When approaching an uphill hiker, the downhill hiker has the advantage of speed, maneuverability, the ability to more quickly see places to pause, and can usually reach them with undue effort for the most part. The uphill hiker is typically focused on the 6-foot of trail immediately in front of them, with occasional glances uphill to verify blazes and routing of the trail. I have to admit being startled when in the "zone", slogging out a long climb to see boots just off to my side as I pass someone I didn't notice was there. Though some people prefer not to pause their downhill descent and will shoulder their way past the uphill hiker regardless of terrain and room to pass, most people recognize right of way and will stop to allow the uphiller to pass.

I always acknowledge when people yield to me when I am going uphill, though sometimes its just a nod when there is little breath to spare for a verbal exchange, it is something that should be recognized and reinforced.

So well said, as usual. The term "social contract" is an important concept to grasp in any community whether it be of hikers, neighborhood, town, or nation. Another wording might be the "golden rule". It is what binds us together in our attempts to cohabit in peace with mutual respect.

[JPritch]

I don't hold to any right-of-way rules on the trail. Whether uphill or down, if I have a good pulloff I can get to before the other person, I'll step aside, or I expect them to if they have a good spot. It's always worked for me.

[FreeGoldRush]

9 out of 10 times you make eye contact with the other hiker and the strategy for passing each other is quickly realized through body language. Uphill hikers seem to want to yield at about the same rate as downhill hikers. Yielding comes down to this:

1) When there is space each hiker maintains pace and moves to the side
2) The tired or slower hiker tends to prefer to yield if required
3) the faster hiker will step off the trail and around you if you do not yield, all while maintaining pace

Very rarely is it ever an issue. There’s really a tendency to be too polite, where both hikers waste time trying to yield.

More experienced hikers sense what to do and they do it efficiently. Day hikers who rarely hike will sometimes be oblivious that someone is trying to maintain pace and that it only takes a second to stay out of each other’s way.

[colorado_rob]

9 out of 10 times you make eye contact with the other hiker and the strategy for passing each other is quickly realized through body language. Uphill hikers seem to want to yield at about the same rate as downhill hikers. Yielding comes down to this:

1) When there is space each hiker maintains pace and moves to the side
2) The tired or slower hiker tends to prefer to yield if required
3) the faster hiker will step off the trail and around you if you do not yield, all while maintaining pace

Very rarely is it ever an issue. There’s really a tendency to be too polite, where both hikers waste time trying to yield.

More experienced hikers sense what to do and they do it efficiently. Day hikers who rarely hike will sometimes be oblivious that someone is trying to maintain pace and that it only takes a second to stay out of each other’s way.


I don't hold to any right-of-way rules on the trail. Whether uphill or down, if I have a good pulloff I can get to before the other person, I'll step aside, or I expect them to if they have a good spot. It's always worked for me.

Yeah, agree with both of these things; when going downhill, I'm always prepared to step aside, but it rarely seems to work out that way, nearly always the uphill hiker steps aside first, seemingly to take a break.

It really is all about eye contact and body language, just remember to be courteous and thank the other party for letting you pass, but at the same time, don't get butt-hurt if the other party doesn't thank you for you letting them pass.

This is easy stuff, never should make for any heated arguments IMHO.

[CalebJ]

I don't see much sense in rules for right of way. As others said, it's more about who has a good spot to step off, eye contact, etc.

[Lone Wolf]

i don't stop goin' up hill or down. i simply step off the trail and walk the few steps on the side of the trail then step back on

[Slumgum]

i don't stop goin' up hill or down. i simply step off the trail and walk the few steps on the side of the trail then step back on

I thought this post was by "Lone Wolf", but in truth it must be from "Mountain Goat".

My point is that there are places on the A.T. where right of way is inconsequential: level, wide trails or grassy, mowed fields. But much of the trail is a one lane track and it is neither practical nor safe for two hikers to pass without finding a spot for one to step off the trail. Evidently, some on this thread advocate playing "chicken".

"Dixie" and "Darwin" are likely the most watched you tubers for A.T. hikers today and they are in agreement with right of way etiquette as I explained. The OP asked about etiquette. Are we going to throw out LNT practices too?

BTW, I agree with Traveler that it is courteous to acknowledge someone who has yielded right of way, even if it is just a nod.

[FreeGoldRush]

"Dixie" and "Darwin" are likely the most watched you tubers for A.T. hikers today and they are in agreement with right of way etiquette as I explained.

They make entertaining videos but I don’t give them more credibility based on their number of viewers.

The reality is that passing etiquette just isn’t an issue. 99% of hikers handle it just fine with eye contact and body language. The rules are actually inefficient because it causes people to be overly sensitive about how they will be judged for following the rules. We’ve all passed hikers going downhill that go overboard trying to get off the trail in a way and place that is just stupid. And they do it because they have some rule in their head.

And to keep this on topic, I will say that section hikers generally do this dance as well as a wannabe thru hiker.

[Slumgum]

The reality is that passing etiquette just isn’t an issue. 99% of hikers handle it just fine with eye contact and body language.

You just described a game of "chicken". Your "reality" is a far cry from mine. What other rules of etiquette can we throw out?

[CalebJ]

There's nothing resembling a game of chicken going on. Just two people passing each other in the woods. Say hello, step aside, and move on with a smile.

[Slumgum]

There's nothing resembling a game of chicken going on. Just two people passing each other in the woods. Say hello, step aside, and move on with a smile.

So idyllic! I wish I could live in your "world". I hiked SOBO from SNP to Springer starting April 6 this year. I and my hiking partner were essentially run off the trail almost every day. Most hikers were great. A small percentage felt they owned the trail. No smiles; no hellos; no eye contact or body language as some have spoken of; it was as if we were traveling down a one-way trail the wrong way. It didn't ruin my experience, but I began to wonder if there was a rule of etiquette to prevent head on collisions on the trail. The very existence of this rule is evidence for its need. Again, if you are hiking NOBO from Georgia in the spring, you will likely encounter very, very few SOBO hikers and it may seem this is yet another "law" that violates your views.

I wish the A.T. was a utopia (as you and others seem to have found) and all hikers exhibited kindness and consideration for their counterparts. Until then, a few rules seem prudent.

[Lone Wolf]

y'all are makin' a mountain out of a mole hill on this passin' thing. really is much ado over nothin'

[Slumgum]

y'all are makin' a mountain out of a mole hill on this passin' thing. really is much ado over nothin'

Caleb, seems you are not alone in the utopian wilderness.

[Lone Wolf]

dude, it's just walkin'

[Furlough]

I also always felt the uphill right of way was silly. I always stop for down hillers. I was going to stop anyway.

I second that. I am quite happy, and most times ready to pause in my uphill climb to let those with gravity on their side pass on by.

Furlough

[Slumgum]

dude, it's just walkin'

Yup. It is just walking ... until you are run over by a moron powering downhill on a narrow trail. It is not an issue for you, Caleb, FreeGoldRush, etc. Good for you. But your efforts to belittle and downplay are a disservice to the OP and other readers who ask for input regarding trail etiquette.

[Furlough]

No reason for BOTH hikers to stop.
Unless both folks want to participate in a bit of time honored social etiquette referred to as conversation. As you say above, stopping and starting on the downhill swing is no big deal. Unless I suppose, ones hike is only about making the miles.

Furlough

[Slumgum]

Unless both folks want to participate in a bit of time honored social etiquette referred to as conversation. As you say above, stopping and starting on the downhill swing is no big deal. Unless I suppose, ones hike is only about making the miles.Furlough

Really. REALLY! So now I am all about "making the miles" and I am turning my back on "time honored social etiquette referred to as conversation"? I actually don't care if the rule of etiquette dictates uphill has the right of way or downhill has the right of way. However, I contend it should be one way or the other. When I am on the trail I just want to hike with civility. It is absurd to contend the solution is to engage in "time honored social etiquette referred to as conversation" with every hiker I pass when I might pass 40 to 50 hikers/day as I did this year. It is absurd to state the solution is "eye contact" and "body language". It is absurd to have to go counter to the established rule and stop for every downhill hiker as well as every uphill hiker. If, as some believe, it is a non-issue, then give it a rest and stop your disrespectful trolling and move to an issue that you do think important.

[Lone Wolf]

maybe you need to walk off season. seems you got issues :)

[Slumgum]

maybe you need to walk off season. seems you got issues :)

How so, "Dude".

[Slo-go'en]

Come on now, really this is getting ridiculous. Who stops and who doesn't depends on the situation.

[Puddlefish]

I think this conversation proves my original contention that there's no such thing as trail etiquette that isn't based on self interest. We can't even agree on the uphill/downhill yield.

All I can suggest is that it's highly dependent based on the circumstances, and when you get two stubborn people meeting on the trail, each one believing that they have some kind of moral upper hand, it only leads to less hiking enjoyment for everyone. Seriously, you're going to put yourself in a bad mood because someone walked past you on the trail in a manner you found to be impolite? That seems a terrible way to hike to me.

Just be vaguely aware of what's happening around you. Each situation needs to be judged on it's own merits. Stay positive and don't sweat what you can't control.

[Furlough]

Really. REALLY! So now I am all about "making the miles" and I am turning my back on "time honored social etiquette referred to as conversation"? I actually don't care if the rule of etiquette dictates uphill has the right of way or downhill has the right of way. However, I contend it should be one way or the other. When I am on the trail I just want to hike with civility. It is absurd to contend the solution is to engage in "time honored social etiquette referred to as conversation" with every hiker I pass when I might pass 40 to 50 hikers/day as I did this year. It is absurd to state the solution is "eye contact" and "body language". It is absurd to have to go counter to the established rule and stop for every downhill hiker as well as every uphill hiker. If, as some believe, it is a non-issue, then give it a rest and stop your disrespectful trolling and move to an issue that you do think important.
Trolling and disrespectful. Really - name calling, profiling and or stereotyping is what is disrespectful. Whether you personally are about making miles or in your words turning your back on conversation is something only you know for sure. I don't really care one way or the other.

I do get your ire from the volume of trail traffic and having to navigate that in whatever fashion one deems appropriate. As a trail maintainer in SNP over the last 2 hiking seasons, there has been a noticeable increase in foot traffic - South, North bounders and the day hikers. Each encounter, I step aside turn off the Stihl Brush Cutter I am using, take off my helmet and ear protection. Generally, not always but mostly conversation follows. Once the hikers move on I put all the stuff back on, restart the brush cutter continue on, and repeat the process with the next encounter. Same applies when I am hiking or backpacking, along with eye contact, I employ the spoken word to let the other person know my intentions. "Absurd" or not all it costs me is time. YMMV. And the only name calling I do is to the Stihl Brush Cutter on occasion when it is being obstinate about starting/re-starting.

Furlough

[Tipi Walter]

You just described a game of "chicken". Your "reality" is a far cry from mine. What other rules of etiquette can we throw out?


y'all are makin' a mountain out of a mole hill on this passin' thing. really is much ado over nothin'


dude, it's just walkin'


Yup. It is just walking ... until you are run over by a moron powering downhill on a narrow trail. It is not an issue for you, Caleb, FreeGoldRush, etc. Good for you. But your efforts to belittle and downplay are a disservice to the OP and other readers who ask for input regarding trail etiquette.


maybe you need to walk off season. seems you got issues :)


How so, "Dude".

I love the smell of discord in the morning. All Hail Lone Wolf---he's got it right. Slumgum's comment "It is just walking until you are run over by a moron powering downhill . . ." --What? In 40 years of backpacking trails in the Southeast including the AT I never came close to getting run over by anyone, moron or not. (The sidewalks of Gatlinburg are another story---or sharing trails with speeding bicyclists).

Wear a 90 lb pack and no one will EVER run you over---in fact on a downhill I could lose my "brakes" and destroy everything in my path. This would make me the Prime Moron.

[Slumgum]

Seriously, you're going to put yourself in a bad mood because someone walked past you on the trail in a manner you found to be impolite? That seems a terrible way to hike to me.

Just be vaguely aware of what's happening around you. Each situation needs to be judged on it's own merits. Stay positive and don't sweat what you can't control.

Good grief. This is Alice in Wonderland. It's just a simple rule of etiquette and that is what the OP asked about. I'll let you guys move back to trolling the dancing banana. I'm out of here and in a positive way.

[TexasBob]

I also always felt the uphill right of way was silly. I always stop for down hillers. I was going to stop anyway.


y'all are makin' a mountain out of a mole hill on this passin' thing. really is much ado over nothin'


Unless both folks want to participate in a bit of time honored social etiquette referred to as conversation. As you say above, stopping and starting on the downhill swing is no big deal. Unless I suppose, ones hike is only about making the miles.

Furlough

99% of the time I am the one who stops and lets the other pass either uphill or downhill. Gives me time to smell the roses.

[FlyPaper]

I usually pick a spot where I'm going to stop. If I see a person 50 yards away, I may project a point to step off the trail that will be when we are within about 5 yards.

More often than not the other person has already stepped off the trail before I reach that point. Boy Scouts seem to step aside when they're 20 yards away. Most others about 10 yards.

[FreeGoldRush]

I usually pick a spot where I'm going to stop. If I see a person 50 yards away, I may project a point to step off the trail that will be when we are within about 5 yards.
More often than not the other person has already stepped off the trail before I reach that point. Boy Scouts seem to step aside when they're 20 yards away. Most others about 10 yards.
Right. This is how it works. And in those rare instances where you encounter someone rude enough for it not to work, what makes you think they will follow some rule?

Just hike and be nice. This isn’t hard.

[CalebJ]

In 40 years of backpacking trails in the Southeast including the AT I never came close to getting run over by anyone, moron or not.
I'm not quite to thirty years on the AT, but same experience - no one has ever come anywhere near running me over. Of all the things to make a big deal about...

[Alligator]

I usually pick a spot where I'm going to stop. If I see a person 50 yards away, I may project a point to step off the trail that will be when we are within about 5 yards.

More often than not the other person has already stepped off the trail before I reach that point. Boy Scouts seem to step aside when they're 20 yards away. Most others about 10 yards.Exactly. It costs about a second of time and even if I do this for 60 people in a day I have lost what 1 or 2 minutes but have been polite to 60 people. If it's a group, much easier for a single person to step out of the way rather than expecting multiple people to find a spot if it is narrow. And if the other person stops first, just say thanks.

[FreeGoldRush]

You also need those micro rest stops that come with letting someone pass. Even on my crazy big mileage days I welcomed the little break as I let someone pass or used the opportunity to chat. There’s really no penalty associated with letting someone pass you. Not surprisingly, other people feel the same way and are just as eager to get out of your way.

And always say, “Thank you” when the other person steps aside first and your preference is to keep your pace. It came out of my mouth about 5,000 times before I was done with the trail.

If you feel other people should follow a rule and are therefore obligated to take some action at certain times, then you will find yourself more often disappointed and less often appreciative.

[FlyPaper]

Right. This is how it works. And in those rare instances where you encounter someone rude enough for it not to work, what makes you think they will follow some rule?

Just hike and be nice. This isn’t hard.

It doesn't matter if they follow the same rule because I'll have stepped to the side before I find out that they weren't going to stop. Still, in over 1200 miles I haven't had a problem.

[Storm]

Been section hiking the trail since 2011. Have never had an issue with a thru hiker or day hiker. Golden rule always applies, treat other people like you would want to be treated. A little respect goes a long way.
On the issue of passing people on the trail , I usually try to step to the side first either up hill or down because I am very slow and usually need the rest. lol.

[sore ankle]

I have been sectioning since 2005 and am just about to Maine. In nearly 1900 miles I have never had an issue with this. Generally, I step aside and as the other hiker(s) go past they say "Thanks" and I reply, "I needed a break anyway." Stepping aside has also led to so some really good conversations in which trail info is shared.

[fastfoxengineering]

The only problem I've ever had is hikers not letting me pass them. It's most likely due to inexperience. However, when someone catches up to you from behind and it is clear (or I thought) their pace is faster than yours. It's typically no biggie and most people get it right away. However there has been a few times people turned around saw me flying down the trail. Stop. Look. And then just continue down the trail not letting me pass lol.. then I have to awkwardly ask if I can pass them even though its quite obvious that they shoulda just stepped to the left real quick. I got a snarly look once or twice by people who are now kind of irrritated I'm right on their butt.... but if they just scoot aside I'll be gone never to be seen again. I don't tailgate anyone intentionally. But man if someone catches you whos flying down the trail.. just let them cruise on by. I've even heard "why is he running down the trail?!" In a snarky tone by some older ladies. In reality. They were descending at 1mph. And I was closer to 3-4mph. No.. I'm not going to hike the rest of this hill down in a line with you at 1 mph. Rather I have another 15 miles to hike today!

[peakbagger]

I was in Maine once on a long puncheon bridge over swampy area. It was probably 200 feet of puncheons. It was decidedly wet on either side of the puncheons. Not a lot of options to step aside. We were more than half way across going south and a person who looked like a thruhiker came out the woods head down and started walking on the puncheons towards us. We were polite at first saying "hey" but she was clueless with head down, we finally yelled at her when she was 20 feet away and she got startled and stepped off into the mud. Turns out she had earbuds on with the tunes cranked and was oblivious to the rest of the world. We apologized and she just waited until we passed and stepped back on the puncheons with head down and tunes cranked.

The passing issue is getting to be bit of PITA on certain trails in the whites popular with trail runners as some runners seem to feel that they have the absolute right of way. Its not the majority but a very noticeable minority. Many are timing their runs and my experience is some get very impatient if someone is using the same trail they picked for a run. I have seen a few of them pass in very unsafe spots where they have stepped right in front of someone boulder hopping down the trail cutting them off in mid stride. The normal hiking method is the faster hiker undertaking a slower hiker usually says "excuse me" to alert the slower hikers. Many runners use the same technique but the one who dont are getting more noticeable.

Many are solo and dont make a lot of noise and its easy for them to catch up with slower hikers without the slower hikers noticing it. One day we discussed that the runners need bells on them ;)

[fastfoxengineering]

I was in Maine once on a long puncheon bridge over swampy area. It was probably 200 feet of puncheons. It was decidedly wet on either side of the puncheons. Not a lot of options to step aside. We were more than half way across going south and a person who looked like a thruhiker came out the woods head down and started walking on the puncheons towards us. We were polite at first saying "hey" but she was clueless with head down, we finally yelled at her when she was 20 feet away and she got startled and stepped off into the mud. Turns out she had earbuds on with the tunes cranked and was oblivious to the rest of the world. We apologized and she just waited until we passed and stepped back on the puncheons with head down and tunes cranked.

The passing issue is getting to be bit of PITA on certain trails in the whites popular with trail runners as some runners seem to feel that they have the absolute right of way. Its not the majority but a very noticeable minority. Many are timing their runs and my experience is some get very impatient if someone is using the same trail they picked for a run. I have seen a few of them pass in very unsafe spots where they have stepped right in front of someone boulder hopping down the trail cutting them off in mid stride. The normal hiking method is the faster hiker undertaking a slower hiker usually says "excuse me" to alert the slower hikers. Many runners use the same technique but the one who dont are getting more noticeable.

Many are solo and dont make a lot of noise and its easy for them to catch up with slower hikers without the slower hikers noticing it. One day we discussed that the runners need bells on them ;)

I've experienced this more and more in the whites. I've almost been run over once or twice by a trail runner. I'm pretty chill about moving out of the way for someone hauling ass... but I have definitely encountered the "get out of my way" trail runner. I understand they are out there racing themselves. But you can't get pissed at a group for slowing you down or are in your way for a few moments because you decided to run a marked trail.

I've seen it going up flume slide. A younger inexperienced couple doing fine but a little shaky. They had never hiked anything like that before. Someone practically climbed up the slide full steam and just went right by them. Would of even made me uncomfortable. At least let me find a nice place to park it for a moment before overtaking the trail. Especially on a rock slide where you could potentially get really hurt.

[Ashepabst]

Yeah, I hate the dudes that make you ask to pass —like it hurts their pride or something. They tend to be dayhikers that stick to the tourist trails, though.


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