View Full Version : What canister mix has best cold weather performance with BRS?
saltysack
12-04-2019, 23:29
Been stove less for a while but want to try out BRS stove I recently bought for winter bartram trail hike. Other than keeping canister insulated Inside pack, sleeping bag etc what other cold weather hacks help with performance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hikingjim
12-05-2019, 00:06
For the mix, msr (what I mostly use) and snow peak have worked well for me a bit under freezing. If you grab fuel in a pinch, avoid primus/coleman
Would be interested if others have other cold weather hacks! If it's well below freezing, I switch to my windpro inverted canister stove
SkeeterPee
12-05-2019, 00:27
Not sure how cold you are camping, but I keep the tank on an inside jacket pocket to warm it up before using. also just putting warm hands around it increase the gas flow. This seems to work down into the 20's. I have thought a water bath around the tank would probably help, but have not tried that.
Mouser999
12-05-2019, 07:01
You could try one adding a chemical toe warmers to the insulated bag you have the canister in.
You can see the details of the Moulder strip on a number of threads at backpackinglight.com, but it is basically a piece of copper whose top is in the edge of the flame, and whose bottom is in contact with the gas canister. I've used just a thick piece of copper electrical wire instead of the more common copper strip because I could just go to the hardware store and purchase a 1 foot piece for practically nothing. A Moulder strip in reasonable contact with the gas canister can keep me going well down to at least -10 or -15 F. It probably still works below that, but at those temperatures I'd rather not be out to see.
Renais
Here's some fun moulder strip reading:
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/moulder-strip-put-to-the-test-butane-canister-use-at-21f-29c/
You can see the details of the Moulder strip on a number of threads at backpackinglight.com, but it is basically a piece of copper whose top is in the edge of the flame, and whose bottom is in contact with the gas canister. I've used just a thick piece of copper electrical wire instead of the more common copper strip because I could just go to the hardware store and purchase a 1 foot piece for practically nothing. A Moulder strip in reasonable contact with the gas canister can keep me going well down to at least -10 or -15 F. It probably still works below that, but at those temperatures I'd rather not be out to see.
Renais
Yeah, my preferred method as well keep it simple. I also use alcohol down to these temps and beyond thanks to ole shug
The problem with alcohol is energy density. It's fine for heating up a cup of coffee, but if you're melting snow you quickly cross over the point where it makes sense to carry it. Too much fuel required because it's half the energy by weight compared to liquid or canister fuels.
Yep, I go both ways and don't take that the wrong way we're talking stoves. I made a alcohol stove out of a tomato paste can fancy feast can and carbon felt burns for about 45 minutes melts snow nice.
Very nice. I do like the idea of alcohol stoves in general, especially for solo use. If I felt like cooking more often I'd probably use one quite a bit. These days I usually just keep it simple and don't carry a stove at all outside of the winter.
nsherry61
12-05-2019, 12:42
The BRS works great with the Moulder strip and even if not so cold it's required, it still helps maintain consistent flame whenever it's cold.
Also, the BRS is super wind-sensitive, so some kind of shield from the wind is extremely helpful.
45909
If you look really closely, you can see my copper strip at the back left of the burner in the above picture and, of course, the windscreen that both allows room for the copper strip to pass through it and also shields the canister from the burner heat.
Also note, the dusting of snow on the ice in the cup, so a before-breakfast morning picture. :-) This image was taken at the edge of a shelter in the Adirondack High Peaks area a couple Januarys ago.
Here's some fun moulder strip reading:
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/moulder-strip-put-to-the-test-butane-canister-use-at-21f-29c/
Best advice for cold weather, use the Moulder Strip. Use windscreen 3/4 ways around stove/pot
saltysack
12-05-2019, 13:21
Damn....after reading that -21!!!! F that! I’m only talking winter in southeast....I think the MSR canister would be fine alone..I’m talking 20*+.....I had a bad experience several years ago using a litemax with a partial canister...can’t recall brand....around freezing wouldn’t stay lit but think lot had to do with mix and partial canister...Moulder strip looks interesting.....I’ll likely cook Inside duomid do wind shouldnt be an issue if so I’ll just use a ccf pad already carry as e wind screen...thx all...
Zelf I do love my energy drink (venom)stove but don’t like alchy with dogs I case of spill etc...
Starchild
12-05-2019, 14:20
Snowpeak as mentioned has the best mix.
peakbagger
12-05-2019, 15:00
IMHO, some brands may start out with good low temp performance but let the tank run down to less than a 1/3 and the performance at cold temps goes south with any brand fuel. The light easy to vaporize ingredients in the mix boil off faster and that means what is left is hard to vaporize. Someone with a heat shield and reasonable stove technique can get 14 days at 2 meals per day. Most folks resupply every 4 to 5 days so some just ditch the canisters half full in a hiker box (or trash) and then they dont worry as much about performance at low canister levels. The folks that are on tight budget that run their cans out or live off of half full cans found in hikers boxes usually figure out the tricks to get low temp performance or run alcohol and deal with its limitations.
trailmercury
12-05-2019, 15:03
are the Jetboil cans any good?
are the Jetboil cans any good?
They've never let me down
Make sure the canister mix just has propane and isobutane, NO BUTANE. I don't think any brand that that meets this requirement is better than another. If your mix contains butane, in winter after the propane and isobutane have burned off, your flame will burn out due to the high vapor temp of butane. Even with no butane, if it's cold enough you will need to keep canister warm somehow. Options include a bowl of water to put canister into, the famous Moulder copper strip method (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HiTrgT-Dd0) , or a hot pack under the canister.
What ever happened to the reusable heating pads? Primus used to sell them as an accessory. Little flexible plastic bubble shaped to fit in the concave under the canister. Bend the metal disc to activate it, and when it had been used you could toss it back in boiling water to recharge it.
Edit - they must have been off the market for quite some time...
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/43766-Primus-quot-heating-pads-quot
The red ones in this Amazon listing are basically what Primus made.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004CV2YXE/
Kaptainkriz
12-05-2019, 17:40
Yep, the Moulder Strip is what I use too. It is pretty much a permanent part of my winter kit. I use a silicone wristband to hold it to the canister:
45910
I've got a youtube video up showing it working.
The BRS works great with the Moulder strip and even if not so cold it's required, it still helps maintain consistent flame whenever it's cold.
Also, the BRS is super wind-sensitive, so some kind of shield from the wind is extremely helpful.
45909
If you look really closely, you can see my copper strip at the back left of the burner in the above picture and, of course, the windscreen that both allows room for the copper strip to pass through it and also shields the canister from the burner heat.
Also note, the dusting of snow on the ice in the cup, so a before-breakfast morning picture. :-) This image was taken at the edge of a shelter in the Adirondack High Peaks area a couple Januarys ago.
saltysack
12-05-2019, 20:25
Yep, the Moulder Strip is what I use too. It is pretty much a permanent part of my winter kit. I use a silicone wristband to hold it to the canister:
45910
I've got a youtube video up showing it working.
Nice video....I’ll head to HD try to round up some copper flashing
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
saltysack
12-05-2019, 21:16
Yep, the Moulder Strip is what I use too. It is pretty much a permanent part of my winter kit. I use a silicone wristband to hold it to the canister:
45910
I've got a youtube video up showing it working.
Didn’t see small pieces of copper flashing on HD.com, did you buy at a roofing store?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kaptainkriz
12-05-2019, 22:06
My local hardware store carried it (copper step flashing). I see them on amazon for $7.99
Didn’t see small pieces of copper flashing on HD.com, did you buy at a roofing store?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Curious if this would work.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PYNRYX3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2DQX36AME1WW3&psc=1
colorado_rob
12-06-2019, 12:20
My wife and I use an inverted canister setup for deep winter trips, meaning morning temps in single digits or below, and when serious power is needed, like when melting snow for all of our water needs. Those copper strip things didn't cut it when we tried one on such a trip, though I bet it works fine for the Bartram thing the op is asking about.
On such trips for us, we just warm the canister in our jacket, making it good for one boil, before having to warm it again. It's also important to shake each time before use to move propane and butane together, as they stratify. I usually buy Snow Peak, after reading some reviews of various mixes and brands
That strip looks like what I used on mine, found it my junk box. Worked good last winter.
Kaptainkriz
12-06-2019, 18:06
Looks a little short, 5" is what I use on the small canister...
Curious if this would work.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PYNRYX3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2DQX36AME1WW3&psc=1
Two Tents
02-02-2021, 10:07
I slip a shake and bake hand warmer under a rubberband around the canister. I activate it before I leave my warm cocoon, heat the canister while I cook and use it again to warm my fingers as I pack up. One per morning & one for night if there isnt a fire; just the weight and carry it out weight for that isnt a big deal on my Winter trips that only last 4 nights tops. The heat transfer strip works well too and no trash to deal with. I'm going to make one and test it. Thanks.
Would this work well? At $8.75 it seems like a good price since you could make 16 at 5"x1".
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MDQQ32M/
. It's also important to shake each time before use to move propane and butane together, as they stratify.
I've never heard of that, what is your source of information/link?
colorado_rob
02-02-2021, 11:05
I've never heard of that, what is your source of information/link? Well, my "original source" is simply my background as an engineer, but since you want an online source, here ya go:
http://blog.texaspropane.com/propane-vs-butane/#:~:text=Propane%20is%20far%20more%20dense,butane% 20are%20classified%20as%20Alkane.
Different densities mean they will stratify, give 'em a shake before using, this has to help and cannot hurt.
Edit: My original year+ old post should have said "to mix the propane and butane together", not "to move", not sure why I would have said "to move" other than the usual brain fart.
Online source says nothing about stratification separation of combined liquid propane/butane
colorado_rob
02-02-2021, 13:23
Online source says nothing about stratification separation of combined liquid propane/butane The link was to show that the densities are quite different.
Gravity. Physics. Liquids with varying densities stratify. Inevitable. Not sure why anyone would not understand this, but there you go.
This would be especially important in the morning when the canister has been sitting motionless all night. If the canister is being handled a bit, the resulting mixing might be enough. but I always just give a little shake to make sure, doesn't take much.
I've learned in the past not to argue on here, especially with some folks, especially with "experts". I won't comment or respond any more on this, no point.
I won't comment or respond any more on this, no point.
agree47250
cmoulder
02-02-2021, 15:26
Definitely can't hurt to shake it, but around 1/3 capacity and lower there isn't much propane left anyway.
However, in the "advanced techniques department," when the ambient temperature is very low and the remaining volume of fuel is low and there is barely any vaporized fuel coming out of the burner, it is possible to open the valve fully and invert the stove/canister to let some liquid fuel into the burner — sort of a wet-priming for canister stoves — and light it, which can help kickstart the copper strip's thermal feedback loop. Yes, it will flare up a bit but as long as it isn't near a tent wall or your eyebrows or clothing it won't hurt anything. But I find people are generally, and unnecessarily, concerned about stove priming flare-ups and think they're a big deal even with a Whisperlite, so I'd say don't try this if you're skittish about that kind of thing.
Get yourself a canister of BOSS torch fuel. Estimated to have 70% propane for cold weather. The canister has a Lindal valve that the BRS3000t will screw onto.
It has worked well on my stoves.
47251
Is the elastic band just to adapt it to fit the stabilizer?
Is the elastic band just to adapt it to fit the stabilizer?
Yes, that is correct.
My answer to the OP: Look for canisters that have NO butane, just isobutane and propane. I also use a "Moulder" copper strip whenever its below freezing to insure good performance even to the last few molecules in the canister. I don't use a BRS burner but it should work fine with a Moulder strip.