View Full Version : Winter and Darkness
I've never backpacked in the early Winter. How do you deal with 12 hours or more of darkness? Can't imagine all that time in a tent.
Gambit McCrae
12-09-2019, 10:51
I still walk as long as I would in the summer. Its just walking after dark. Nothing changes except wearing a head lamp.
Christoph
12-09-2019, 11:00
Winter night hiking is pretty fun.
peakbagger
12-09-2019, 11:28
I find I do lot more campfires as I cannot tolerate 12 hours in a bag.
Netflix movie download. Hang phone from hammock ridgeline. Instant drive-in... er... hike-in.
Slo-go'en
12-09-2019, 12:57
I don't have much trouble spending 12 hours in the bag, but rather not. While I love winter hiking, I hate winter camping so I only do day hikes theses days. Getting too old to put myself through that misery any more. Did enough of that in my youth and somehow managed to keep all my fingers and toes.
I'm generally not a fan of night-hiking unless necessary, so my 2 biggest things are waking up as early as possible to maximize daylight (waking up and packing up while it's still dark so you start walking at first light) and making more fires.
Night hiking the same or near the same time as summer or just get in and go to sleep regardless. Spent a couple 11-12 hour bag nights the last trip I was on. Two to three of those were because I hiked until right before rain moved in, setup the tent and nothing to do but sleep. I prefer to save my battery for pics, navigation and video so I wasn't too interested in looking at electronics.
Slo-go'en
12-09-2019, 14:11
A lot of it is where you do your winter camping. Winter camping down south is a lot different then in NH or Maine! I noticed most of the responses so far are from people who live in the south.
stumpknocker
12-09-2019, 14:33
I get my best sleep of the whole year in winter.
I usually only sleep 12 hours, even though there is about 14 hours of dark.
I wake up a couple hours before daylight, roll over, brew coffee and enjoy the beginnings of a new day before packing up to walk.
Did a quick overnighter last weekend, so I have fresh memories to report.
I hiked until dusk (which means, 5pm right now) with just enough daylight left to setup the camp.
Then I slipped on my good down jacket and did a slow and long hike around the area, which was really great in the light of the half moon and the fresh snow cover.
Then I started to make dinner and while soaking the dried food I started reading a bit (Kindle app on the phone).
After dinner and cleanup it was just another hour of reading until 8pm, which is a great time for falling asleep.
Had a fitful sleep until 6am, so I started to pack up inside the tent, which was ready done to break the tent at 6:30 and start hiking in the first daylight around 7am.
I took my breakfast break two hours later at the summit in the first morning sun.
Then hiked the whole day with just some short breaks until 5pm arriving back home.
Was tired enough so I could have performed the same tasks for the evening again, with no time to be bored (but hey, back home I just slipped into the hot thub)
Keep in mind that everything is much more tedious and takes up much more time in the cold of the winter.
TexasBob
12-09-2019, 15:02
A lot of it is where you do your winter camping. Winter camping down south is a lot different then in NH or Maine! I noticed most of the responses so far are from people who live in the south.
Good point ! I enjoy winter camping in Texas and Arkansas but I wouldn't where you live because it would be just too darn cold for me.
colorado_rob
12-09-2019, 16:56
We love winter BPing here in CO, I look at the darkness as a chance to get caught up on sleep and reading! I have trouble sleeping a full 12 hours, but can certainly read for 2-3 then sleep for 9-10 or whatever.
Just a point of interest: There is the same amount of darkness/daylight in the fall as there is in winter. Same thing for spring and summer (same total daylight in those two). When I found this out a few years ago, it was a real "aha !" moment.
One little gem of a place to hike/backpack in the winter is the Grand Canyon. easy to get permits. Fantastic hiking in the dead of winter near the bottom, as the climate is very mild, and snow rarely makes it to the bottom or stays around long if it does.
PLUS, phantom ranch has a cool little Happy hour thing going on.... If you're camping at the Bright Angel campground at Phantom, you can sack out at dark (4:30 or so), get back UP at 8pm, go to Happy Hour at the Canteen in Phantom, they serve soup, hot drinks and beer (maybe wine?) and snacks, people sit around and socialize, play games, etc, nice little respite on those long, dark nights in January at the bottom of the GC.
We're 5 years running now with January BP trips into the GC. This next year, alas, we have to wait until early February. We'll suffer through that.
devoidapop
12-09-2019, 17:47
Where's Tipi? This thread was made for him and a good hunker down story :)
garlic08
12-09-2019, 17:56
My first winter camps were on the winter solstice for several years running in the North Cascades. Those were long nights, over 15 hours, though generally not bitter cold. That was back when I carried a book and a candle lantern. I saw it as a good way to catch up on sleep. I've never had a problem with 14 hours or more in a tent.
Winter for me represents a chance to decrease the miles and focus on camp more. Plus, I hate setting up camp in the dark even in summer. So shorter miles, ideally a fire, and a chance to relax.
4eyedbuzzard
12-09-2019, 19:28
I've never backpacked in the early Winter. How do you deal with 12 hours or more of darkness? Can't imagine all that time in a tent.
A lot of it is where you do your winter camping. Winter camping down south is a lot different then in NH or Maine! I noticed most of the responses so far are from people who live in the south.
Only 12 hours of darkness? In New England it's more like 16 hours of darkness. Which, along with the weather, is why for the most part there just aren't a lot of people backpacking overnight in New England in the winter. It's as simple as that - most people, even hikers, just don't. There just aren't that many people who enjoy killing hours and hours huddling around a fire, cooking in the dark, reading in their tent, etc. in 0° temperatures. Sure, there are few, and some are here on WB, that love going off into the NH mountains in winter, but they are the exception, not the norm. Given that you are camping down below the ridges and/or in the trees, the amount of daylight north of the VT border means some really short days. There's only about 8 hours of usable light in the woods within a months time around the winter solstice, and it's pretty dim for the first and last of those hours, and especially so on the north side of a ridge where you might actually see the sun from 9 to 3). You need lots of heavier gear - winter tent, sub-zero rated bag, heavy clothing, boots, more food and fuel, etc.
Beyond the lack of light, once into January, it can be bitterly cold in the New England mountains. Overnight temps in the mountains usually cycle on a 3 day pattern - the "warm" single digits overnights for a few days, then -20°F or even colder (I've seen close to -40° a couple of times) for a few nights. Daytime temps often get into the teens or even 20's, but the windchill factor comes into play if your in an exposed area (like much of the AT in NH).
The warmest days in winter are usually when a warm front moves through, bringing rain with temps in the 30's and possible even 40's. We usually get a couple of "winter thaws" - but they are often the worst time to hike. Wet and 30°'s, with icy trails, and wet gear are much worse than cold and dry. The clear days of course come with the cold fronts, so while the sun may be out, the temperatures can be pretty cold and often they come with a strong north/northwest wind out of interior Canada. Which is why day hiking and then retreating back home or to a cabin with a warm fire is more the norm for most folks, even avid hikers, who live up here.
An overnight or weekend in a good weather window can be a lot of fun. But you have to pick your weather windows and enjoy that kind of solitude as well. Sometimes you'll meet up with other overnight hikers, but it isn't a given. Beyond that, there are also hikes/parties in the woods (solstice parties are an example). But typically winter group hikes are only a couple of miles in, carrying lots of food and refreshments, etc. And the time is passed socializing and partying as they are more social events with a hike thrown in (to get there) than they are hikes. But again, you have to pick your timing wisely - hiking into in the New England mountains in the wrong weather isn't usually a fun experience.
peakbagger
12-09-2019, 19:38
I went a couple of times to the High Peaks area of the Adirondacks in NY in early February. We base camped and dayhiked from a lean to. We had great time the first year, the next year we got there and there were announcements that effective January 1st no campfires year round in the High Peaks. With -10 to -20 at night somewhat routine the lack of good campfire for a four or five hours after dark is not pleasant. We had plenty of fuel so we did not freeze but that was the last winter trip to the ADKs.
We used to take the local scouts in the whites for winter trips. The We would start out with about 6' of snow but but the time they left on Sunday morning the firepit was down to bare ground and about 30 feet in diameter.
Slo-go'en
12-09-2019, 20:00
In the Whites, you don't have to camp in the snow if you don't want, but it will cost you. Carter notch hut and Zeland are available (but you have to sleep in the unheated bunk room at Carter). Plus there is my old winter home, the Gray Knob cabin on Mt Adams. It's kept somewhat warm, but don't excect it to be much more then 40. Still better the 10 below!
In Maine, the AMC has a newish network of huts designed for cross country ski touring. Might have to try that out someday.
Up here at the 42nd parallel, it gets light late and dark early this time of year. Not quite the enternal darkness a bit farther north, but significant. March is a better time to go out. Much more daylight, much milder temps and the snow pack is at it's peak.
I still walk as long as I would in the summer. Its just walking after dark. Nothing changes except wearing a head lamp.
Mostly this. 12 hrs in a bag or tent my restless leg syndrome starts acting up. :D Although it' late fall just got back 2 hrs ago from a Bartram Tr thru. One night I hiked until 1 a.m. Another night 2 a.m. Two nights I hiked past 10 p.m. Couple of days I started late one day not until 10:30 a.m and another day 10 a.m. Saw no one other than two at Rabun Bald.
fastfoxengineering
12-09-2019, 22:31
I still walk just as long. I just carry a heavier headlamp if lots of night hiking is in the ballgame.
I dislike night hiking with a wimpy torch.
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cliffordbarnabus
12-10-2019, 00:09
you don't have to sleep or read or have electronic stimuli or "something to do." you can meditate. you can think. maybe you can try to remember what you got on your 9th birthday. or what the wallpaper looked like in your childhood bathroom.
saltysack
12-10-2019, 08:26
I still walk just as long. I just carry a heavier headlamp if lots of night hiking is in the ballgame.
I dislike night hiking with a wimpy torch.
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Better doesn’t have to be heavier.....Nitecore NU25 rechargeable fits the bill! Just over 1oz
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I like my little hiking and camping radio other than that , +1 on this.
you don't have to sleep or read or have electronic stimuli or "something to do." you can meditate. you can think. maybe you can try to remember what you got on your 9th birthday. or what the wallpaper looked like in your childhood bathroom.
Ooops this is who I was quoting.
you don't have to sleep or read or have electronic stimuli or "something to do." you can meditate. you can think. maybe you can try to remember what you got on your 9th birthday. or what the wallpaper looked like in your childhood bathroom.
Ooops this is who I was quoting.
Better doesn’t have to be heavier.....Nitecore NU25 rechargeable fits the bill! Just over 1oz
'Fits the bill' is pretty subjective. That light would be plenty bright for me, but definitely not enough battery life and without the ability to swap them, your only option is to carry a USB bank to recharge it.
saltysack
12-10-2019, 09:40
'Fits the bill' is pretty subjective. That light would be plenty bright for me, but definitely not enough battery life and without the ability to swap them, your only option is to carry a USB bank to recharge it.
Yea assume most already carrying external battery in today’s world with all the tech crap out there...Rav6700mah only weighs 4oz was $12 Amazon Black Friday, bought another one. I usually get 3 nights before recharging as normally only few hours per night on med/low plenty of light with occasional high use. Do love my zebra light for wet conditions ie sup backpacking if that’s a thing[emoji23]
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rmitchell
12-10-2019, 09:49
I don't have much trouble spending 12 hours in the bag, but rather not. While I love winter hiking, I hate winter camping so I only do day hikes theses days. Getting too old to put myself through that misery any more. Did enough of that in my youth and somehow managed to keep all my fingers and toes.
+1
Caught myself looking forward to spring.
Then it hit me, crap it's not even winter yet!
Yea assume most already carrying external battery in today’s world with all the tech crap out there...Rav6700mah only weighs 4oz was $12 Amazon Black Friday, bought another one. I usually get 3 nights before recharging as normally only few hours per night on med/low plenty of light with occasional high use. Do love my zebra light for wet conditions ie sup backpacking if that’s a thing[emoji23]
That's fair - a lot of people definitely do. I'll grab one if I'm out for 4-5 days or more, but otherwise no. Usually I'll use a fairly heavy Fenix headlamp that gives me a broad range of output vs duration options.
fastfoxengineering
12-10-2019, 11:16
Better doesn’t have to be heavier.....Nitecore NU25 rechargeable fits the bill! Just over 1oz
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe NU25 has been with me for quite some time now. I've been using one since they first hit the scene. Carried one the entirety of the AT, and three end to end hikes of the Monadnock Sunapee Greenway.
I did a bunch of nightime jaunts in the white mtns this year. Up and down sketchy trail.
I found the light lacking on more technical terrain in extended use.
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LoneStranger
12-10-2019, 11:19
'Fits the bill' is pretty subjective. That light would be plenty bright for me, but definitely not enough battery life and without the ability to swap them, your only option is to carry a USB bank to recharge it.
You might be surprised at how long that built in battery lasts if using the lowest output setting. The higher outputs will eat it up in just a few hours, but on low it lasts for weeks. Working on a Trailspace review and eventually gave up on finishing the test because it had been a month and it was still shining. The level fades over time; output after four weeks is nothing like it was on the first day. Still enough for around camp, but probably not good for hiking.
Hikingjim
12-10-2019, 11:51
Just a point of interest: There is the same amount of darkness/daylight in the fall as there is in winter. Same thing for spring and summer (same total daylight in those two). When I found this out a few years ago, it was a real "aha !" moment.
This is a good point here. Around Nov 21 - Jan 21 (the couple months with the least light of the year) I don't typically do much backpacking unless it's an opportunity I can't pass up!
By February/March I'm ready to get out for a longer winter stretch, and the couple hours+ of total daylight makes a difference to me
saltysack
12-10-2019, 12:10
The NU25 has been with me for quite some time now. I've been using one since they first hit the scene. Carried one the entirety of the AT, and three end to end hikes of the Monadnock Sunapee Greenway.
I did a bunch of nightime jaunts in the white mtns this year. Up and down sketchy trail.
I found the light lacking on more technical terrain in extended use.
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Interesting...for my current needs hasn’t let me down...but definitely see the advantage of having ability to swap batteries when needed! I had my Zebra light crap out at 4am during an expedition style paddle race near the glades..boy was I glad to have ability to swap batteries! Brings up the point of having a secondary source! I also bring a photon light on a neck lanyard, changing batteries in the dark and on the water ain’t fun....I’ve only seen pics of the whites and can definitely see what your talking about...
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fastfoxengineering
12-11-2019, 00:47
Interesting...for my current needs hasn’t let me down...but definitely see the advantage of having ability to swap batteries when needed! I had my Zebra light crap out at 4am during an expedition style paddle race near the glades..boy was I glad to have ability to swap batteries! Brings up the point of having a secondary source! I also bring a photon light on a neck lanyard, changing batteries in the dark and on the water ain’t fun....I’ve only seen pics of the whites and can definitely see what your talking about...
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt's not so much "route" finding in the whites but safety.
Lots of trail dependening on where you go is rock climbing.
Ime, when needing to climb down a cliff. It's best to see very far down it cause you need to think about not the next step. But the next 10.
I found myself with the NU25 on high. And therefore. Worried about battery life.
I night hiked practically the entire state of PA on the medium setting with zero issues.
I also found I definitely prefer headlamps to flashlights.
I just go places where all fours are standard fair.
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grubbster
12-11-2019, 08:55
One advantage of the NU25 seldom mentioned is it's ability to charge and run simultaneously when connected by USB to a battery. That essentially eliminates the fear of running out of light at a critical time. With a 3' cord you can attach it to your battery bank and use it while it charges.
fastfoxengineering
12-11-2019, 09:18
Sorta. You have to carry it in hand.
Secondly, this assumes one is/wants to carry a battery pack.
This method doesn't work for me whilst rock climbing in the darkness when you need all fours.
I would honestly say AAA lights have the advantage in this regard. Simply put new batteries in and you're back to 100% instantly.
I would agree that an internal usb light like the NU25 does have advantages in other cases. Like always topping it off in town on a hike with resupply points.
It's still my go to light for backpacking on a normal hiking path when lots of nightime hiking isn't in the plans.
I think mine weighs 1.1 ounces with the shockcord headband. I would gladly bump it up to 2 ounces for an increase in battery life. If they make it what it is for its current weight. An extra .9 in battery sounds like a lot of extra juice.
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saltysack
12-11-2019, 10:02
One advantage of the NU25 seldom mentioned is it's ability to charge and run simultaneously when connected by USB to a battery. That essentially eliminates the fear of running out of light at a critical time. With a 3' cord you can attach it to your battery bank and use it while it charges.
Only issue of this is you risk messing up the micro USB port, it doesn’t take much to ruin it ie snag on branch etc, but in a pinch could see doing it.
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colorado_rob
12-11-2019, 10:43
The more I use the NU25 the more I think it's my favorite headlamp ever, and I personally think it's plenty bright for technical climbing when on high, but of course there's the battery life thing, so I agree, I revert to my triple AAA lamp for extensive use on difficult terrain. I haven't tried it yet but I don't think it would stay charging if plugged in to external battery while hiking, those micro USB ports are flaky.
fastfoxengineering
12-11-2019, 10:47
The more I use the NU25 the more I think it's my favorite headlamp ever, and I personally think it's plenty bright for technical climbing when on high, but of course there's the battery life thing, so I agree, I revert to my triple AAA lamp for extensive use on difficult terrain. I haven't tried it yet but I don't think it would stay charging if plugged in to external battery while hiking, those micro USB ports are flaky.High IS plenty bright in my experience also. But 1.5 hours of it is not nearly enough.
I love my NU25. It's just for "normal" backpacking though.
I think it's the best thru hiking torch on the market for the big three trails.
If you carry a power bank.
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Curious how many NU25 lamps you can carry for the weight of a triple A headlamp and batteries to keep it running the same amount of time.
My use of the NU25 has been very seldom ever needing to run on high. I use it generally only if I haven't seen a clear trail marking at an intersection. I understand that for those who need it to run longer on high might want something different. I do own their NU30, heavier brighter and a believe the battery size is tripled.
Clearly I need to put that on my wish list. Still a little skeptical for extended night hiking but it's clearly a good general use lamp.
colorado_rob
12-11-2019, 12:35
Curious how many NU25 lamps you can carry for the weight of a triple A headlamp and batteries to keep it running the same amount of time. Yeah, I thought of that pretty much instantly when we talk about battery life for the NU25.... my AAA lamp weighs 2.2 ounces, when I use lithium AAA batteries, which I do in the winter, though the stupid things are expensive (but do go on sale). So it would be close, I think roughly my AAA lamp, at a similar brightness, will last twice as long as the NU25 on high, maybe a bit more. I might test that sometime, just for fun. It makes sense, battery energy density IS battery energy density for similar chemistry.
I could easily see myself buying a 2nd NU25 soon; our annual Grand Canyon RRR is coming up soon (March), we now start at midnight (I'm getting slower!) in order to finish before dark, so 5 hours of pitch dark hiking on a not-great trail (ruts, etc). AND I like carrying and using a double lamp system on the way down to the river (one lamp on head, the other in hand to cast shadows); both on medium brightness.
One other nice thing about the NU25 is the "battery gauge" thing. My AAA doesn't have one, furthermore, using lithium batteries, it fails very suddenly, no warning, typical for Lithium.
grubbster
12-11-2019, 13:19
Only issue of this is you risk messing up the micro USB port, it doesn’t take much to ruin it ie snag on branch etc, but in a pinch could see doing it.
I have a 90 degree micro USB cord that I can attach and run around the headband to the back of my head and down my back. The battery is put in my jacket. Not much chance of it getting snagged unless the whole headlamp was going to get snagged anyway.
saltysack
12-11-2019, 13:24
I have a 90 degree micro USB cord that I can attach and run around the headband to the back of my head and down my back. The battery is put in my jacket. Not much chance of it getting snagged unless the whole headlamp was going to get snagged anyway.
Got it...sounds doable
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Most of my colleagues and myself will make a fire and keep it going till ~9 PM (hiker midnight) or even later. Still need to try to sleep for up to 10 hours, which is challenging. I try to start a weekend trip somewhat sleep deprived. That and melatonin seem to help me.
Garlic08 mentioned this on the first page but we got distracted in the headlamp discussion - candle lanterns are a good option in the winter. Most of the year I seem them as one extra thing to carry with little value, but on short days in the winter they provide a bit of extra heat in the tent as well as reducing humidity and creating a pleasant environment for reading. Cheap and fairly lightweight too.