Thru Hiker Numbers down for 2019?

[The Josh]

According to this (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-milers) website the estimated NOBOs this year was around 3300, so even if thats off by say 3-400, the number of NOBO Thru hikers are still down from previous years.

Ignoring the reported completions (the site says these numbers aren't complete) does it seem like the number of thru-hikers are trending down? There was a negligible increase from 2017-2018. I haven't been following these trends very long it just peaked my curiosity. Is it too early to be speculating about this? I'm guessing all of the 2019 NOBOs have been off the trail for a bit.

[jefals]

I for one would love for these numbers to be trending down. And not just for the AT...

[Tipi Walter]

I for one would love for these numbers to be trending down. And not just for the AT...

Come out to where I backpack---in the mountains of TN and NC adjacent to the vaunted AT. I just got back from an 18 day trip and didn't see a single backpacker the whole time I was out.

[George]

declining media effect

[The Josh]

I for one would love for these numbers to be trending down. And not just for the AT...

Less on the AT sounds nice, but where I hike in Ohio I'm lucky to see anyone past the trailhead and the trails are in rough condition and no one cares. The funding cuts to the Forest Service almost makes sense here, no one uses the trails - why maintain them. I really wish more people would hike/backpack here and we could get more trails.


declining media effect

Does this mean the media isn't reporting it as much? Or we're not reporting/reading the media as much?

[peakbagger]

40 years ago there was a steep decline in the 1980s after a huge increase stating in the late sixties. The explanation at the time was that "yuppies don't hike". My explanation is the crowding conditions on the AT is finally getting out to potential hikers.

[TNhiker]

My explanation is the crowding conditions on the AT is finally getting out to potential hikers.




or there hasnt been a very popular hiking book out lately................such as "Wild" or "A Walk In The Woods"

[Slo-go'en]

The economy is different and there are less returning military hitting the trail. There was a surge of vets not too long ago. The peak was shortly after the '08 recession and a scale down of Middle East deployment.

The popular trail books along with social media no doubt helped to spike the numbers. More people knew about the AT and there was a pool of people primed for it.

Maybe the numbers are treading down to more sustainable levels. Or more people are section hiking. There's no good data on that, but I'm sure they greatly out number thru hikers.

Weather was a factor last year too. March was down right nasty to the early starters and then it got wicked hot. The reduced numbers were really apparent here in the Whites.

[Hikingjim]

Trail isn't much of a secret anymore or viewed as an experience that few do, which may cut down on the allure.
Not that it was ever a big secret, but the influx of hollywood movies and other hiking videos brought so much attention, and there are so many vlogs etc.
I think the current younger generation will not generate as many hikers going forward either; as a teacher, at least up here, I am seeing so many less people engaged in anything that doesn't have constant wifi and phone usage, but this may be my skewed view.

[colorado_rob]

My explanation is the crowding conditions on the AT is finally getting out to potential hikers.


or there hasnt been a very popular hiking book out lately................such as "Wild" or "A Walk In The Woods" Some combination of these two explanations seem the most likely to me. I finished the AT in 2015, my wife joining me for three 100-ish mile sections. In 2018, we set out to hike her huge missing sections, and it was night-and-day more crowded, so much so that the AT has lost almost all of its appeal to her. We did do NH and ME though, not so damn crowded up there. But GA/NC/TN/VA? Fugedaboudid during regular hiking season.

[jefals]

Come out to where I backpack---in the mountains of TN and NC adjacent to the vaunted AT. I just got back from an 18 day trip and didn't see a single backpacker the whole time I was out.
Beautiful country!
I'm a western boy, tho. I hiked 3 weeks on the PCT and barely saw a soul! How's that possible? Started from Campo (Mexican border) in September.
I'd LOVE to do that hike at the proper time -- (April) - but not with the crowds that are there then. Maybe, as folks are pointing out, the novelty from the films has died down. (Of course the other thing -- age-related ailments --seem to be getting in my way now, too. But that's another story)...

[George]

My explanation is the crowding conditions on the AT is finally getting out to potential hikers.

yeah, no one goes there anymore - it's too crowded

[George]

Does this mean the media isn't reporting it as much? Or we're not reporting/reading the media as much?

walk in woods book, then movie, german documentary - obviously the effects die out with time

now deliverance was timeless....... if you are in to that

[George]

Beautiful country!
I'm a western boy, tho. I hiked 3 weeks on the PCT and barely saw a soul! How's that possible? Started from Campo (Mexican border) in September.
I'd LOVE to do that hike at the proper time -- (April) - but not with the crowds that are there then. Maybe, as folks are pointing out, the novelty from the films has died down. (Of course the other thing -- age-related ailments --seem to be getting in my way now, too. But that's another story)...

PCT, much more than the AT runs on a specific "window" - therefore more empty in the off season

[jefals]

Beautiful country!
I'm a western boy, tho. I hiked 3 weeks on the PCT and barely saw a soul! How's that possible? Started from Campo (Mexican border) in September.
I'd LOVE to do that hike at the proper time -- (April) - but not with the crowds that are there then. Maybe, as folks are pointing out, the novelty from the films has died down. (Of course the other thing -- age-related ailments --seem to be getting in my way now, too. But that's another story)...

PCT, much more than the AT runs on a specific "window" - therefore more empty in the off season
I thought AT is on a similar window. Start in April or May if your goal is to climb Katahdin before they close that park in October. No?

[BillyGr]

I thought AT is on a similar window. Start in April or May if your goal is to climb Katahdin before they close that park in October. No?

Though people seem to do the AT in more different setups (S-N, N-S, start in the middle and then return to finish the other half and more). Maybe that's not the case with the other trails (as it seems some sections of those trails have much more limited times when weather is favorable)?

[Alligator]

According to this (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-milers) website the estimated NOBOs this year was around 3300, so even if thats off by say 3-400, the number of NOBO Thru hikers are still down from previous years.

Ignoring the reported completions (the site says these numbers aren't complete) does it seem like the number of thru-hikers are trending down? There was a negligible increase from 2017-2018. I haven't been following these trends very long it just peaked my curiosity. Is it too early to be speculating about this? I'm guessing all of the 2019 NOBOs have been off the trail for a bit.If I am reading correctly, there were 749 flip floppers. This number is not shown on this page https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-milers for other years. Perhaps an increase in flip-floppers has occurred, which if so, might be credited to ATC efforts.

[George]

I thought AT is on a similar window. Start in April or May if your goal is to climb Katahdin before they close that park in October. No?

other than whites N (say mid may to mid oct) the AT is practical to hike year round - bail out points, easy transportation, resupply availability, less water shortages etc make lots of alternatives practical, if not popular

[George]

If I am reading correctly, there were 749 flip floppers. This number is not shown on this page https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-milers for other years. Perhaps an increase in flip-floppers has occurred, which if so, might be credited to ATC efforts.

IMO the best data is the ferry report, not yet out for 2019 - that is the point on the AT where the most variables are controlled

[FrogLevel]

Come out to where I backpack---in the mountains of TN and NC adjacent to the vaunted AT. I just got back from an 18 day trip and didn't see a single backpacker the whole time I was out.

I couldn't agree more. Plus, many of the trails (that often link to the AT) are way more interesting and challenging.

[jgillam]

We have a booming economy, there aren't a lot of unemployed people with spare time right now.

[The Josh]

If I am reading correctly, there were 749 flip floppers. This number is not shown on this page https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-milers for other years. Perhaps an increase in flip-floppers has occurred, which if so, might be credited to ATC efforts.

Maybe, I don't see any reported numbers on the flip-floppers from previous years other than reported completions, 22, vs 117 for 2018, but it hasn't been updated since November 24th. There was a big drop in flip flops completed in 2018 vs 2017/16. I wonder if it's less people completing or less people starting. Does anyone know anywhere else that might report these or any other numbers?

[colorado_rob]

We have a booming economy, there aren't a lot of unemployed people with spare time right now. Yeah, probably another factor. But interestingly, our CO Mountain Club (7000 person hiking club) enrollment dropped about 40% just after the big "financial crisis" of 2008/9, but then started rising again during the recovery soon after. So, all the laid-off folks decided to quit hiking then is my take on it, for some reason. But in that case, we're talking mostly about day hikers or weekend warriors. If I were still a working stiff and got laid off, I'd head straight for a long trail somewhere, which is I suppose you're exact point in reverse.

Not sure why we're talking about "better" places to hike rather than the subject as to why AT hiking has apparently dipped a bit, but since the subject has been brought up, here is an example of where I choose to hike for weeks at a time without seeing anyone, other than my 1 or 2 hiking companions. silly me.

[Slo-go'en]

A flip flop sounds good in theory, but in practice it's not so good. You end up in VA during the hottest and driest part of the year.

No doubt many of the Flip floppers who make it to Baxter decide that is far enough. It's just as easy to head home then it is to go back to Harpers Ferry.

[gpburdelljr]

Is there a table listing the number of 2000 milers by year somewhere?

[jefals]

Not sure why we're talking about "better" places to hike rather than the subject as to why AT hiking has apparently dipped a bit
...
Yeah, I was thinking that too. Most of the trails I've hiked are generally pretty free of other hikers. But the thread is about the AT. I kinda extended it to the PCT, since it also is a big "draw".

[Tipi Walter]

I think the current younger generation will not generate as many hikers going forward either; as a teacher, at least up here, I am seeing so many less people engaged in anything that doesn't have constant wifi and phone usage, but this may be my skewed view.

I couldn't agree more. "Constant WiFi" about says it all. I think there's a direct correlation to higher phone usage and declining backpacking numbers.

[colorado_rob]

Is there a table listing the number of 2000 milers by year somewhere? Here:

http://appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-milers

Scroll down to see the good stuff, previous years vs. 2019

[Dogwood]

I think the current younger generation will not generate as many hikers going forward either; as a teacher, at least up here, I am seeing so many less people engaged in anything that doesn't have constant wifi and phone usage, but this may be my skewed view.

The trend has overall globally been occurring for a long time - less of a connection to the Natural environment replaced by a connection to the economy or other things. This trend has been occurring in your/my generations too but according to that/our age's cultural normalcies.

Hiking or other adventuring in Nature activities such as thru hiking, or as TW does "getting his bag nights", can be our attempts to somehow reconnect to that which is instinctually engrained, that we know/connect with in our souls - a connection with and love for Nature... because humanity is part of it not separate from it. Richard Louv terms it Nature Deficit Disorder. Humanity may not be as separate and levitating above the greater environment as some world belief systems and colonization efforts have us unquestionably believe and built societies/Nations.

Some have the notion less Nature less wilderness less savagery more progress. Turn your TV or computer on. Read US history books. It's preached everyday in abundance from the highest pulpits of power. Some in a fallen state take the command 'take dominion over the Earth' as justification to rape, pillage, and waste it ignorant of life beyond our noses not aware that destroying Nature we destroy ourselves. Onwards to the next planet. See how we have progressed? Doesn't that contain a hint of species self absorption and arrogance?

Humanity is not meant to be in rebellion to the Earth.

[jefals]

Some in a fallen state take the command 'take dominion over the Earth' as justification to rape, pillage, and waste it ignorant of life beyond our noses not aware that destroying Nature we destroy ourselves.
I have to question whether the folks doin the raping, pillaging and wasting are biblical enough to ever have heard or given thought to said command...

[handlebar]

Wish tgheree was a like button on WB.

The trend has overall globally been occurring for a long time - less of a connection to the Natural environment replaced by a connection to the economy or other things. This trend has been occurring in your/my generations too but according to that/our age's cultural normalcies.

Hiking or other adventuring in Nature activities such as thru hiking, or as TW does "getting his bag nights", can be our attempts to somehow reconnect to that which is instinctually engrained, that we know/connect with in our souls - a connection with and love for Nature... because humanity is part of it not separate from it. Richard Louv terms it Nature Deficit Disorder. Humanity may not be as separate and levitating above the greater environment as some world belief systems and colonization efforts have us unquestionably believe and built societies/Nations.

Some have the notion less Nature less wilderness less savagery more progress. Turn your TV or computer on. Read US history books. It's preached everyday in abundance from the highest pulpits of power. Some in a fallen state take the command 'take dominion over the Earth' as justification to rape, pillage, and waste it ignorant of life beyond our noses not aware that destroying Nature we destroy ourselves. Onwards to the next planet. See how we have progressed? Doesn't that contain a hint of species self absorption and arrogance?

Humanity is not meant to be in rebellion to the Earth.

[Dogwood]

I have to question whether the folks doin the raping, pillaging and wasting are biblical enough to ever have heard or given thought to said command...

Manifest Destiny promoted and justified it.

Excuse the hijacking. Mum.

[Traveler]

I couldn't agree more. "Constant WiFi" about says it all. I think there's a direct correlation to higher phone usage and declining backpacking numbers.

Were that the case, the numbers shown by the ATC would not have pretty much doubled every decade since the 1980's.

[jefals]

I have to question whether the folks doin the raping, pillaging and wasting are biblical enough to ever have heard or given thought to said command...

Manifest Destiny promoted and justified it.

Excuse the hijacking. Mum.
Yeah, interesting seque and definitely a thread hijack. Good discussion for somewhere besides here, so I won't respond further here except to say -- if you believe a butterfly flapping it's wings in China has as impact on the number of AT hikers, then you may believe manifest destiny also plays a role. IMO. :)

[stephanD]

Like many other occurrences in nature and society, it is cyclical.

[Alligator]

A flip flop sounds good in theory, but in practice it's not so good. You end up in VA during the hottest and driest part of the year.

No doubt many of the Flip floppers who make it to Baxter decide that is far enough. It's just as easy to head home then it is to go back to Harpers Ferry.One can time a flip flop however one chooses and there are several published strategies to do so.

I was however reading that wrong as I did not see the double asterisk on the website. It was not appropriate to add the Harpers Ferry and Baxter numbers together as the counts do not reflect starts. At a minimum there were 414 flip floppers based on the table, which is the Harpers Ferry count. A much harder number to estimate-the true number of starts--with the flexible starting points available.

[Tipi Walter]

Were that the case, the numbers shown by the ATC would not have pretty much doubled every decade since the 1980's.

But we didn't have smartphones in the 1980s or 1990s or even into the 2000s---its widespread use (and addiction) is a very recent phenom.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I doubt smartphone use is the cause of an outlier number in the general trend. If smartphones were causing a decline in hiking, then please explain the success of Guthook.

[Hikingjim]

I only thing long-distance hiking numbers will generally decline over time because more people of all ages, but especially young, are joining the "everything must be quick and connected" MO. Also, youth outdoor programs and general interest in hiking is way down for youth in my area.

One data point from Scouts Canada, a few years old:
2015-16 youth membership stands at 61,438,[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouts_Canada#cite_note-annual-report-2016-8) a 5% decline from 64,693[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouts_Canada#cite_note-annual-report-2015-9) in 2014-15. This is a significant decline from its 1965 peak of 288,084 youth

Some hikers will want to disconnect when they're older and want to do a long-distance hike, but I think millions more would rather go to the key points of interest and take 1,000 pictures and maybe a 10 min video. Or hit the backpacking trails that are the most awe-inspiring.

But this is just one variable of many!

[George]

every decade there are more recreational opportunities, so of course some have to decline in popularity, but few go away completely

[George]

I couldn't agree more. "Constant WiFi" about says it all. I think there's a direct correlation to higher phone usage and declining backpacking numbers.

basic idiom of statistics: correlation does not equal causation

[George]

I doubt smartphone use is the cause of an outlier number in the general trend. If smartphones were causing a decline in hiking, then please explain the success of Guthook.

please do not try to confuse made up minds with facts

[Tipi Walter]

I think the current younger generation will not generate as many hikers going forward either; as a teacher, at least up here, I am seeing so many less people engaged in anything that doesn't have constant wifi and phone usage, but this may be my skewed view.


I only thing long-distance hiking numbers will generally decline over time because more people of all ages, but especially young, are joining the "everything must be quick and connected" MO. Also, youth outdoor programs and general interest in hiking is way down for youth in my area.


I still concur with Hikingjim's assessment---less backpacking due to the desire for---in his words--- "constant wifi and phone usage."

It rings true for me where I backpack in the mountains of TN/NC/VA/Georgia---with the overall trend of seeing less backpackers year by year---which I attribute to the modern desire to stay "connected" at all costs.

[Traveler]

But we didn't have smartphones in the 1980s or 1990s or even into the 2000s---its widespread use (and addiction) is a very recent phenom.
The "smartphone" made its US market appearance in 1992, though the term smartphone didn't come into common use until the mid-90s. Since portable phones have come into play they are one of the modern boogeymen that are blamed for many social ills from distracted driving to the inability to recall information given the "Google effect" of the collective brain. Considering the success of backpack and related gear manufacturers, it is difficult to say there has been a drop off of backpackers overall.

There are other factors likely at play, perhaps in concert, that may make it appear backpackers are becoming scarce. Competing recreational opportunities that were not as widespread or available decades ago like biking, ATV/motorized activities, kayaking, climbing, and other activities requiring technical equipment that has recently appeared. The proliferation of "Where to Hike" books all over the US that opens up trail options for a huge number of people that are not part of well traveled trail systems.

Of course economics plays a part in this. While the economy is "booming" for those who can participate in the Stockmarket, wage growth has not moved much and a lot of people are working 2 - 3 jobs to keep things together. Time passes more quickly than we realize, Gen Xer's and Millennial's who we have seen in solid numbers over the past decades are having children and are into career paths that reduce the amount of time spent in recreational pursuit, especially with respect to long distance trails.

Myself, I don't believe there has been much of a decline in the backpacking community. The ATC provides information showing nearly twice the numbers of backpackers on the AT compared with the previous decade. Now I don't discount competing interests perhaps reducing the total time people may backpack during a given year, but the digital environment that seems to have the woes of humankind laid at its feet has proved its value as a hiking/backpacking resource. As 4EB points out, Guthooks success demonstrates a robust community exists. Using the internet as a resource is much easier today than 35 years ago to find new trails in new places to pursue, luring people to various corners of the US which will can create the illusion the backpacking community is thinning out. I suggest the opposite may be true.

[colorado_rob]

Myself, I don't believe there has been much of a decline in the backpacking community. The ATC provides information showing nearly twice the numbers of backpackers on the AT compared with the previous decade. Now I don't discount competing interests perhaps reducing the total time people may backpack during a given year, but the digital environment that seems to have the woes of humankind laid at its feet has proved its value as a hiking/backpacking resource. As 4EB points out, Guthooks success demonstrates a robust community exists. Using the internet as a resource is much easier today than 35 years ago to find new trails in new places to pursue, luring people to various corners of the US which will can create the illusion the backpacking community is thinning out. I suggest the opposite may be true. Well said, and I agree. I don't have hard numbers to back this up, but I'm fairly certain the BP community keeps growing at least out west, though thankfully, it's damn big out here, one can still get completely lost if one avoids the popular trails.

But every time I do hike a popular trail, it seems more and more "crowded", which is a relative term, because nowhere out here have I seen crowds like on the AT.

It's fun to talk about, and it is curious, but the little dip we see in the 2019 AT numbers means nothing. Could just be a statistical glitch, though I still think the WITW and Wild craze had a lot to do with the numbers increases in recent years, and the subsequent gradual fading thereof.

And speaking of internet usage, Caltopo, for example, is absolutely amazing to peruse and find new places to hike. I'm addicted to Caltopo. And no matter how obscure some trails are, someone out there has probably hiked it and posted a GPX track to load into Caltopo and check out.

Despite the "crowds" here and there, we live in a Golden Era for backpacking.

[4eyedbuzzard]

...But every time I do hike a popular trail, it seems more and more "crowded", which is a relative term, because nowhere out here have I seen crowds like on the AT...I think the most crowded areas of the AT are obviously the southern end of the AT in thru-hiker season and almost anywhere in The Whites on a nice summer weekend. There are other spots like McAfee Knob, Dragons Tooth, etc that get a lot of traffic as well. But in terms of sheer crowds on the AT (which includes day-hikers) I've never seen more hikers in one place at one time than on the Franconia Loop. I passed hundreds - many, many hundreds - all within a couple of miles of trail just between Falling Waters and The Bridle Path one day. But, even though I had to share the space, it was still a nice hike.

...Despite the "crowds" here and there, we live in a Golden Era for backpacking.Yeah, I agree. And I don't see technology as having ruined backpacking/hiking, rather, it's made it more accessible to more people. That we might be a bit selfish about sharing a space that belongs to everyone is more a reflection on us, not those other hikers. One of toughest things about hiking the AT years ago was the logistics and lack of information. We've gone from using the local club's guides to the original rather limited "Data Book" to multiple choices of trail guides showing where to resupply, eat, shower, shuttle, stay, etc. Guthook and smartphones are just the evolution of that hard copy. The trail often wasn't blazed well either. Finding the trail at road crossings and intersections was a challenge many times. The corridor wasn't protected and parts were on private land. Road walks were common. And then there's the revolution in tech that changed gear. What started with some Aluminum and Nylon has evolved into gear that's lighter weight than we could dream about only a few decades ago. Yeah, things are different, but they're just fine.

[JoshMcR]

You can get an internet connection almost everywhere on the AT now, at least with Verizon. Hikers get wifi access every 2-3 days when they're in town. Access to the internet is not a factor. You guys are really reaching for ways to crap on young people. As a % of the population, far more people are thru-hiking major trails now than in previous decades. This notion that phones are causing people to hike less is complete nonsense. The exact opposite has happened.

As for the OP's question, I doubt there's a reason. Sometimes trends change without a cause.

[Slo-go'en]

The number of people trying to do a thru hike might be down from it's peak, but hiking in general is still very popular. You really have to go out of your way to find a quiet spot in the Whites these days.

I suspect section hiking has picked up in popularity too. A 2 to 4 week trip is a lot easier to pull off then a 4-6 month hike.


As for cell phones, posting a picture from a scenic vista on social media has become a popular thing to do. So is GPS tracking your hike. Take a look at the All trails web site. I meet people all the time who say they found the trail we happen to be on via All trails and using their phone for the map.


I blame that trend for the increase in numbers on White Mountain trails. Finding a parking spot at even remote trail heads is not a given any more.

[Hikingjim]

The number of people trying to do a thru hike might be down from it's peak, but hiking in general is still very popular. You really have to go out of your way to find a quiet spot in the Whites these days.
I suspect section hiking has picked up in popularity too. A 2 to 4 week trip is a lot easier to pull off then a 4-6 month hike.
As for cell phones, posting a picture from a scenic vista on social media has become a popular thing to do. So is GPS tracking your hike. Take a look at the All trails web site. I meet people all the time who say they found the trail we happen to be on via All trails and using their phone for the map.
I blame that trend for the increase in numbers on White Mountain trails. Finding a parking spot at even remote trail heads is not a given any more.
This is true. People have access to find the best trail, best views, very easily, and to get there affordably.
My dad hiked a lot in the 60s and 70s. He grew up on the west coast, and when he moved east and started the long trail at the Canadian border, he gave up after a few days with the complaint that there are "no vistas", "too much trees", compared to where he was used to in California and Colorado. If he had all the information at his fingertips that we do now, he probably would have headed to Mansfield, then to the whites, etc, and skip sections that weren't what he was looking for.

[Dogwood]

...we live in a Golden Era for backpacking.


:clap:clap:clap..........

[Five Tango]

or there hasnt been a very popular hiking book out lately................such as "Wild" or "A Walk In The Woods"

True,but there's a proliferation of hiking vids for every trail on Earth available on YouTube.So here's my take on the current decline-Age Demograpics.

If the Baby Boomer generation birth dates range from 1946-1964 as I have read,then if we choose 1955 as the birth year of the Average Boomer,that Boomer would be 65 years old now.This hits close to home for me as as I turn 68 this year and I hardly know or can find anyone my age interested in hiking or still fit and healthy enough to do it if they were so inclined.Most of the people I hike with or see out there anywhere are younger then I am.

Meanwhile,if the average Boomer's kids are in the Generation Y group of 1977-1995,they just might be busy raising children and maintaining a two income family to meet financial demands.So maybe they don't have time to think about it right now but at some point they may and if their children do then maybe we could anticipate a sharp increase in participation at some point in the future as these people come of age.

Then again,maybe now that people are tuning in to YT and following other's thru hikes and weekend adventures they may be living vicariously and not all that interested in ever doing a thru hike.Some of us,self included,who like to make a few trips to the trail per year have no interest in a many month day in and day out trudge.Everybody winds up hiking their own hike and what is great for one might not be so great for others.

[George]

I turn 68 this year and I hardly know or can find anyone my age interested in hiking or still fit and healthy enough to do it


over 55 backpackers is a busy facebook group - you do not show your location, but if you are in a metropolitan area search hiking meetup groups - or form your own

[jefals]

I turn 68 this year and I hardly know or can find anyone my age interested in hiking or still fit and healthy enough to do it


over 55 backpackers is a busy facebook group - you do not show your location, but if you are in a metropolitan area search hiking meetup groups - or form your own
Yep. 73 here. I do my training religiously, building up my miles,my climbing, my pack weight -- then -- hernia surgery. Several months off, have to start all over. Build back up -- took a fall -- now a bunch of tears in the shoulder. Seems like everytime I get close enough to the confidence I need to get back on the trail, some medical malady or other that wouldn't have got me in my younger years jumps up to bite me in the butt!

[Dogwood]

..Myself, I don't believe there has been much of a decline in the backpacking community.

The ATC stats Josh linked to only detail thru hikers. Did everyone look at what was linked to before posting? Seems not. The AT hiking community includes more than professing thru hikers. We shouldn't overgeneralize "the hiking community." Isn't there already too much emphasis on thru hiking the AT. Perhaps, nationally and the AT hiking community more inclusively hiking numbers are up but it's harder to impossible to amass accurate stats when one includes day and section hikers. As Mags has said more people are doing done in a day affairs. So, the perspectives here on interpreting hiking numbers being on the decrease are highly skewed and biased.

People, you're contributing to the very thing that some of you've complained about - too much emphasis on thru hiking the AT, negative affects of the NOBO bubble, catering to thru hikers over other AT hikers, AT thru- hiker "I'm a God" 'Holding court" mentalities.

[jefals]

DW...you got a good point, but this particular thread is about thru-hikers. That's the title of the thread.

[Dogwood]

I still concur with Hikingjim's assessment---less backpacking due to the desire for---in his words--- "constant wifi and phone usage."
It rings true for me where I backpack in the mountains of TN/NC/VA/Georgia---with the overall trend of seeing less backpackers year by year---which I attribute to the modern desire to stay "connected" at all costs.

I third this. It's obvious when 300 + are atop Mt Marcy, a place that can only be reached via hiking or...maybe helicopter or quad, on a gorgeous Oct day, with hawks flying around and flocks of waterfowl and fall color when 200+ are limiting their disconnected focus to a 3x5 screen attempting to get connected(what a disconnected to Nature joke) like a scene from The Walking Dead with connectivity Zombies bumping into each other and the non Zombie 100. Some rudely walked through where I was attempting to eat lunch off to the side stepping on my food never acknowledging what they had did ....because they probably weren't aware what they did or didn't care because they were utterly self absorbed. They walked right through the circle of some asking the young female Docent about Nature and High Peaks questions knocking down two people and Zombie staggering off almost ensuing in fist fights. That is not to say tech is bad but the way electronic tech does change human behavior has the potential to and does disrupt others in a self absorbed very limited focus negative manner.

Society does not come down on the affects of electronic addiction as strongly as some other substance and behavioral addictions because it fits economically into the basic fabric of most societies. It's more disconnection from Nature, and in some respects disconnection to each other, in support of a stronger connection to the flow of money. This will only increase resulting in less Nature. It's resulting in changes to the AT too. We see the opposing connections at work in societies and how dramatic "the economy" can and is prioritized over a connection with Nature. U.S. and European culture are great influencers of global culture.

[Dogwood]

DW...you got a good point, but this particular thread is about thru-hikers. That's the title of the thread.

Fine. Then lets be consistent in what we call the backpacking community by specifically saying the 'AT thru hiking community' so we don't lose that focus.

[Paleolith54]

basic idiom of statistics: correlation does not equal causation

It's an axiom, not an idiom. Since we're being pedantic. Plus, he specifically said correlation.

[George]

It's an axiom, not an idiom. Since we're being pedantic. Plus, he specifically said correlation.

and implied that phone usage lead to less backpacking - obviously (or should be) my point is the emotional statements, backed up by poorly used statistics, are lacking anything resembling facts

[Dogwood]

It's an axiom, not an idiom. Since we're being pedantic. Plus, he specifically said correlation.

Regardless, this is still ^^.

[Traveler]

Zombies, a new perennial threat on New York trails apparently, which makes a good case to avoid them. If backpacking numbers were falling off, there would be a similar effect in the retail and manufacturing of the equipment used in the activity. Popular trails that lure many people to them annually including many sections of the AT may be losing popularity with backpackers who have a wealth of other options they can pursue and get away from crowds at certain times of the year, creating the illusion of growing scarcity.

[FlyPaper]

I couldn't agree more. "Constant WiFi" about says it all. I think there's a direct correlation to higher phone usage and declining backpacking numbers.

That would be my guess too. Even they they may be able to connect on the trail, the consequences of living a life from childhood on up constantly looking at a screen is that the cognitive processes are very different (and deficient in my opinion). I suspect that anything that is difficult to do will be less commonly done in the future.

[Tipi Walter]

That would be my guess too. Even they they may be able to connect on the trail, the consequences of living a life from childhood on up constantly looking at a screen is that the cognitive processes are very different (and deficient in my opinion). I suspect that anything that is difficult to do will be less commonly done in the future.

You post reminds me of one of the advantages of getting older---We see cultural changes on a broader scale.

EX: When I was a kid growing up in Oklahoma and Texas back in the 1950s---we all lived outdoors and stayed outdoors as much as possible---in our rural or suburban neighborhoods. We played baseball and football and explored on foot and rode our bicycles---it was common back in those days to drive thru an area and see every kid outside doing something. In fact, I often got in trouble when my Mom or Dad drove around looking for me and yelling at me to get back home.

Now when you drive thru neighborhoods or suburbs or rural communities you never see kids outside playing. When I was a kid we swarmed everywhere and ran thru people's backyards and climbed their fences to get from one area to another. Nowadays you never or rarely see kids running thru yards or exploring an area on foot.

Fast forward to 2020 and if I don't see kids outside playing why would I see them outside backpacking???

[Hikingjim]

Here is some data from the Trek thru hiker surveys. I think this trend may continue. Long-distance Hiking is booming with certain demographics, but not as much in young people. It will take awhile for that to play out in trail numbers though.... since so many of us older people have a lot of legs left!

2016: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 31 years old, plus or minus 12 years, with a median age of 27 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 17 to 68.
2017: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 32 years old, plus or minus 12 years, with a median age of 28 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 17 to 74.
2018: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 34 years old, plus or minus 13 years, with a median age of 29 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 18 to 74.
2019: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 36 years old, plus or minus 15 years, with a median age of 30 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 13 to 70 years old.

[The Josh]

Here is some data from the Trek thru hiker surveys. I think this trend may continue. Long-distance Hiking is booming with certain demographics, but not as much in young people. It will take awhile for that to play out in trail numbers though.... since so many of us older people have a lot of legs left!

2016: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 31 years old, plus or minus 12 years, with a median age of 27 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 17 to 68.
2017: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 32 years old, plus or minus 12 years, with a median age of 28 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 17 to 74.
2018: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 34 years old, plus or minus 13 years, with a median age of 29 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 18 to 74.
2019: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 36 years old, plus or minus 15 years, with a median age of 30 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 13 to 70 years old.

Those are some pretty interesting stats, it suggests there was a huge uptick of thru hikers over 40 years old in 2019.
2016 - 39 hikers over 40 (22% of respondents)
2017 - 50 hikers over 40 (20% of respondents)
2018 - 68 hikers over 40 (23% of respondents)
2019 - 106 hikers over 40 (37% of respondents)

[FlyPaper]

Exactly. I live in a neighborhood with about 70 homes (with a nearby neighborhood of probably 100 more). My kids barely know any other kids in the neighborhood. I recall fielding two full baseball teams from just the kids that lived within 0.4 of my house growing up. I couldn't imagine anything like that today.

When I want my kids to do something other than video games or watch youtube, I kind of want to tell them to go outside and play. But I'm hesitant because I know there will
be no other kids out to play with. If they say: "There's nothing to do outside", I'm inclined to mock them, but then I realize they're kind of telling the truth at least when compared to my childhood.

Phones and tablets available as of about 2005 to 2010 and later create all the entertainment a kid could want. When given unlimited access, kids may not develop as much interest in real world activities. From my own kids' lack of pursuit of real adventure, I suspect we'll see a lot fewer of their peers develop an interest in hiking. And it doesn't even matter if they can connect to the Internet while on the trail.


You post reminds me of one of the advantages of getting older---We see cultural changes on a broader scale.

EX: When I was a kid growing up in Oklahoma and Texas back in the 1950s---we all lived outdoors and stayed outdoors as much as possible---in our rural or suburban neighborhoods. We played baseball and football and explored on foot and rode our bicycles---it was common back in those days to drive thru an area and see every kid outside doing something. In fact, I often got in trouble when my Mom or Dad drove around looking for me and yelling at me to get back home.

Now when you drive thru neighborhoods or suburbs or rural communities you never see kids outside playing. When I was a kid we swarmed everywhere and ran thru people's backyards and climbed their fences to get from one area to another. Nowadays you never or rarely see kids running thru yards or exploring an area on foot.

Fast forward to 2020 and if I don't see kids outside playing why would I see them outside backpacking???

[Odd Man Out]

We have a booming economy, there aren't a lot of unemployed people with spare time right now.
That's my paradox. If I have the time, I don't have the money. If I have the money, I don't have the time.

[Odd Man Out]

...If they say: "There's nothing to do outside", I'm inclined to mock them, but then I realize they're kind of telling the truth at least when compared to my childhood...

This made me laugh. I thought of an episode of "The Biggest Loser" (the TV show where trainers help overweight people get healthy) from several years ago. They took the contestants camping at the Grand Canyon. At one point they had a few hours of free time to work out on their own. When their trainer Bob showed up he was disappointed to find them just sitting around doing nothing. They said they couldn't work out since they didn't have their gym or equipment. Bob look dumbfounded, his jaw dropped, and he SHOUTED "Are you *#&%!!*$% kidding me. You're at the *#&%!!*$% Grand Canyon and you can't find something healthy to do????"

[gpburdelljr]

You post reminds me of one of the advantages of getting older---We see cultural changes on a broader scale.

Most people see cultural change on a narrower scale as they get older. The past is perceived as better than the present.

[bjd002]

Ya, not a whole lot of hikers in Arkansas. Wish we had more trail!

[Dogwood]

Liked this: Ya, not a whole lot of hikers in Arkansas.

Ya got plenty of uncrowded miles. The full word isn't out on how awesome Ark is for hiking. Be careful what you wish for.

Liked this: I'm a big fan of trail running. It can help make you a better hiker by decreasing your decision making time for where to place your feet.

[Dogwood]

Here is some data from the Trek thru hiker surveys. I think this trend may continue. Long-distance Hiking is booming with certain demographics, but not as much in young people. It will take awhile for that to play out in trail numbers though.... since so many of us older people have a lot of legs left!

2016: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 31 years old, plus or minus 12 years, with a median age of 27 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 17 to 68.
2017: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 32 years old, plus or minus 12 years, with a median age of 28 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 17 to 74.
2018: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 34 years old, plus or minus 13 years, with a median age of 29 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 18 to 74.
2019: The average (mean) age of hikers in the survey was 36 years old, plus or minus 15 years, with a median age of 30 years old. Hikers ranged in age from 13 to 70 years old.

Why might that be? Could it have something to do with how the survey questions were phrased or how the survey was offered that elicited a lower number of responses from Post Millenials and Millenials - on the lower cusp age range of that category? That does happen. Not everyone equally desires to obtain a permit, register for a hike, answer or have that much interest in a survey/ time consuming survey. Societies are moving at an ever time crunched shortened attention span focus and pace. Intensity. The younger and younger generations more so. ADHD, ADD, Adderall, coffee/caffeine usage, rules? they don't apply to me, I'm not that old, yah tyah yah get er dun yesterday, graduate with two bachelors in 2 yrs from Harvard, complete the AT as a section hiker? no way I'm attempting a sub 90 day thru as a complete Newb, Nature? the immigrant landscaper mows my parent's lawn, Natured Deficit Disorder, concrete steel and glass and all things manmade, drop the hammer on the vehicle's accelerator, hoe fast does your lawnmower dragster go, how fast can you peddle a road bike, gotta go go go gotta be somewhere else next next next get out of my store, no loitering, FKT and speed hike interest, two minutes or less in the bedroom, gotta meet the boys/girls, go here, there gotta go go go, restless leg syndrome(LMAO). A survey? I don't have the time for no stinkn survey. Alienation, isolation, self absorption, gotta get mine, gotta go epic or not at all, if anythings worth doing it's worth doing fast, tick tock tick tock lets's get moving people, time is money, read a book? I'll watch the movie, No time for taht either, tell me what happens.... in 4 sentences or less, I'll get someone else to personally coach me rather than glean what personally applies, this thread I haven't read all the posts but I'm going to offer self authorized as an "expert" comprehensive targeted advice in two sentences or less or post something unrealted because the original question or important details concerning it was not considered or my mind is elsewhere now, instructions? screw dat I don't need to read no stinkn 5 page instruction booklet for piloting a helicopter. it's like PS4 or playing on Xbox. A survey? I dont have no time for a survey

DAMN this post is too long:D How many made it this far? What's your age,

[4eyedbuzzard]

Ya, not a whole lot of hikers in Arkansas. Wish we had more trail!Yeah, I've hiked sections of the Ouachita Trail in OK and AR. Not a whole lot of hikers might be an understatement. Several midweek days I didn't see another human else except at road crossings. Even on the weekends I only saw a few other hikers.

[Dogwood]

Yeah, I've hiked sections of the Ouachita Trail in OK and AR. Not a whole lot of hikers might be an understatement. Several midweek days I didn't see another human else except at road crossings. Even on the weekends I only saw a few other hikers.

Thrued the OT and OHT and Buffalo River Tr. in early fall, Saw few people even at road crossings, established CS's, OT lean tos, some more known TH's and rather scenic SP's, along and in the BRT/BR Had the trails basically to myself.

[soilman]

We have a booming economy, there aren't a lot of unemployed people with spare time right now.

I would think that with a booming economy people in mid career would be more likely to take a break and hike knowing that they can find a job when they are done hiking. Ten years ago on my thru hike I ran into several folks in their 40's and 50's who quit their jobs because they wanted to thru hike. And this was during a recession. One I hiked with for a couple of weeks was 54 and just had it with his job. He figured if he waited 10 plus years to hike after he retired he may not physically be able to.

[jefals]

We have a booming economy, there aren't a lot of unemployed people with spare time right now.

I would think that with a booming economy people in mid career would be more likely to take a break and hike knowing that they can find a job when they are done hiking. Ten years ago on my thru hike I ran into several folks in their 40's and 50's who quit their jobs because they wanted to thru hike. And this was during a recession. One I hiked with for a couple of weeks was 54 and just had it with his job. He figured if he waited 10 plus years to hike after he retired he may not physically be able to.
Welk, if you're in your 30s or 40s, married, kids -- taking that kind of time off just isn't feasible. And today, a lot of jobs are a little different than they used to be. Lots of folks working for themselves. My daughter , for example, drives around grooming dogs, and has spent years growing her business and reputation. If she took 6 months off, customers would go elsewhere. Also, more of the jobs are high-tech, so there's a learning curve. If you quit, thinking you're going to get another job when you get back -- you're giving up whatever seniority you might have built up, you'll face the learning curve at your new company. From a perspective employer's viewpoint. , they may be thinking along the lines, "her last company invested a lot in her, training for a few years, and then she left, and now they have to start all over. She might do the same to us".
Given all that, and all the other negatives and positives, it still boils down to a personal decision.

[Dogwood]

WB, all things related to hiking, the site of and age for instant experts or laymen discussion on socio economics, economic analysis, data analytics, and demography hypotheses. :p

Oooh oohh oooh me me pick me I have an opinion. I have a(THE) answer... a culture of self importance. And, some assume only the youngest generations do it. Ouch.

[Slo-go'en]

Thru hikers have always been primarily the young and the old. If most of your sample is young and old, the mean will end up in the middle. It really has to be broken down into smaller age increments to be of any use. That's the only way to know which way the scale is shifting. More old hikers but same number of young hikers or same number of old hikers but fewer young hikers?

[4eyedbuzzard]

As noted by others, thru-hikers tend to fall predominantly into two age groups - younger and older (added the "ers" to be polite). While some jobs/careers may allow for someone in middle age to take 6 months off to hike, most won't. I believe it's also very dependent on what type of job people have, their education, socio-economic level, etc. It might be easier for someone in a job that could be easily matched upon returning. But for many, leaving a job, especially a higher level one means going backward in level of position, income, etc. Then add in little things like raising and supporting children/family, mortgages, etc. For most, back home expenses don't stop while on the AT or other trail - but the income stream does - and trail expenses add to the burden. Just isn't a realistic choice for most people in their middle age years.

[KnightErrant]

When I hiked Monroe in August, I was delighted by how many kids I saw out with their parents. At least half of the groups included kids, from toddlers in carriers up through teens. I also sponsor and chaperone the hiking club of the school where I work, and in a school with about 150 kids in grades 5-8 eligible to join, over 40 of them are in the club. We brought our 7th and 8th graders on an overnight to Lonesome Lake hut for a leadership training back in October, no phones allowed, and I heard no complaints about it (none from the kids, that is... We did have some complaints from parents when we were unreachable and the weather was 40 windy and rainy and they were worried and so unused to being able to text their kid at any moment).

If you don't see kids outside, part of the reason is very likely technology available indoors, but I think a large part is also the paranoid and competitive parenting that exists today. Kids aren't allowed to walk to or from the school where I work, even though it's less than a mile from the center of town, because people are so afraid of abductions and accidents. The unstructured "go out and play kickball or whatever, come back at dark" kind of parenting that even I received just 10-20 years ago would be considered neglect by a lot of people today. Instead, make sure your kid is signed up for every activity under the sun! A sport for every season, dance class, gymnastics, boy scouts, all of it! It's like "Keeping up with the Joneses" has evolved from competing over the nicest car and biggest lawn to competing over the most complicated pickup/dropoff itinerary for your kids. No hour must be left unscheduled! And then parents wonder why their kids want to just veg out in front of a screen at night to unwind. So every generation of parents is "ruining" their kids in a new and different way.

Despite it all, most of my students are remarkably well-adjusted. I don't understand their Snapchat and their TikTok and I could pass those habits off as reasons why society is doomed or whatever, or I could recognize that generations communicate differently and my own lack of understanding doesn't mean that they aren't relating to each other in meaningful ways.

Every generation laments how unfocused and unmotivated the youth are. I've shared this comic about the pace of modern life (https://xkcd.com/1227/) before but it remains relevant. The kids are alright.

(And a lot of them are still into hiking!)

[Dogwood]

@knighErrant. Enjoyed the post. Observant.

When I hiked Monroe in August, I was delighted by how many kids I saw out with their parents. At least half of the groups included kids, from toddlers in carriers up through teens. I also sponsor and chaperone the hiking club of the school where I work, and in a school with about 150 kids in grades 5-8 eligible to join, over 40 of them are in the club. We brought our 7th and 8th graders on an overnight to Lonesome Lake hut for a leadership training back in October, no phones allowed, and I heard no complaints about it (none from the kids, that is... We did have some complaints from parents when we were unreachable and the weather was 40 windy and rainy and they were worried and so unused to being able to text their kid at any moment).

What would you say was the avg age of the parents? I ask desiring to know how long they've, on average, been exposed to smart ph/hand held mobile computers like SP's/I-net tech and helicopter parenting? Habits are more advanced? The pre-teen and teens may not have grown into such a depth of habit or, perhaps, addiction as their parents.

If you don't see kids outside, part of the reason is very likely technology available indoors, I think a large part is also the paranoid and competitive parenting that exists today. Kids aren't allowed to walk to or from the school where I work, even though it's less than a mile from the center of town, because people are so afraid of abductions and accidents. The unstructured "go out and play kickball or whatever, come back at dark" kind of parenting that even I received just 10-20 years ago would be considered neglect by a lot of people today. Instead, make sure your kid is signed up for every activity under the sun! A sport for every season, dance class, gymnastics, boy scouts, all of it!

Competitiveness. Where and how can that often originate? I contend, sure, it's part of survival of the fittest but also out of overly egotistical personality types, ego dominated thinking. What do you think? The fear also stems from the abundant TV, internet, written verbal accounts of pedophilism as if it is every where and everyone(more dbags) are abducting and abusing children. Talk to a six-10 yr old at a playground especially as a male or pat little Johnny on the head saying "what grade are you in?" , see what can happen. What can happen in cultures like the U.S. with an abundance of options, some say an over abundance? Too many options has been demonstrated to create analysis paralysis. We also expect it culturally similar, if not the same, to be catered to and pampered with abundance with a developed Supersize Me, massive portions of meat for food, etc mentality, like on a trip to France, limiting the visit to Paris, when we can't see beyond expectation of access to our countries cultural norms. https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choice?language=en Did you watch the TED talk? What do you think? It also stems from the availability of over access to information, linked to too many options, creating the illusion that we can or have to know everything also creating a perfectionist mindset and age of self authorizing experts. Do we all truly all the time need to be walking around with what amounts to a library in our hands a million times more powerful than a NASA Apollo 11 guidance computer which is what a developed habit on SP/hand held computer usage can create. Where do you suppose the goal for everyone to have such an access originates? Could it be in the minds of Nerds? What do you think?


Your ideas sound like a chapter out of Last Child in the Woods by Richard Louv. May want to check it out if you haven't already.

[jefals]

WB, all things related to hiking, the site of and age for instant experts or laymen discussion on socio economics, economic analysis, data analytics, and demography hypotheses. :p

Oooh oohh oooh me me pick me I have an opinion. I have a(THE) answer... a culture of self importance. And, some assume only the youngest generations do it. Ouch.
Uh.....,, Huh?:(

[Ethesis]

The Whites have a huge number of section hikers and trail runners in areas that barely intersect the Appalachian Trail. That was eye opening to me.

[Slo-go'en]

The Whites have a huge number of section hikers and trail runners in areas that barely intersect the Appalachian Trail. That was eye opening to me.

For some reason peak bagging 4000 footers has become a very popular thing in the last few years, which is why many trail head parking lots are full and overflowing.

[Alligator]

The Whites have a huge number of section hikers and trail runners in areas that barely intersect the Appalachian Trail. That was eye opening to me.Me too. I was there beginning of October, the number of cars parked at trailheads was like a mall parking lot at Christmas.

[rickb]

For some reason peak bagging 4000 footers has become a very popular thing in the last few years, which is why many trail head parking lots are full and overflowing.

Because Instagram?

[Tipi Walter]

For some reason peak bagging 4000 footers has become a very popular thing in the last few years, which is why many trail head parking lots are full and overflowing.

It must be remembered that 90% of these numbers---or more---are Dayhikers---who might clog the parking lots and trails but never take up tent spaces required by backpackers.

[4eyedbuzzard]

...Peakbaggers up north are a different sort. They take pride in climbing mountains with "the worst weather in America" and proudly beat you over the head with their numbers---highest recorded winds, deepest windchills, coldest nights, thickest rime ice etcAyut. :cool:


---as if their mountains rate and ours do not."We don't say anything of the sort. You have some fine mountains down there in the south - even if there are trees growing on top of them. :p :D

[Tipi Walter]

Ayut. :cool:

We don't say anything of the sort. You have some fine mountains down there in the south - even if there are trees growing on top of them. :p :D

One question---How did you get my quote after I deleted it?????

[4eyedbuzzard]

One question---How did you get my quote after I deleted it?????It was up there, on the board, when I quoted it. Looking at the time references, you edited your post at 17:42 and I posted at 17:44. Two minutes. I likely had selected to quote it and started my reply just before 17:42 when it was still there, but didn't submit it until 17:44. And certainly I hope you took it as intended - just some good natured ribbing. I could delete it if you want, but likely it has already been read by all the usual suspects.

[colorado_rob]

WB, all things related to hiking, the site of and age for instant experts or laymen discussion on socio economics, economic analysis, data analytics, and demography hypotheses. :p

Oooh oohh oooh me me pick me I have an opinion. I have a(THE) answer... a culture of self importance. And, some assume only the youngest generations do it. Ouch. Well, yeah, well said, I think assuming you include yourself in the mix of folks on here with this little attribute??? I certainly am included....


For some reason peak bagging 4000 footers has become a very popular thing in the last few years, which is why many trail head parking lots are full and overflowing. Yeah, same deal here in CO, actually starting 15 or so years ago with the 14,000 foot peaks (59 of them), it got c-r-a-z-y. Honest to doG, I think I counted at least 1000 people ascending Bierstadt (a 14er close to Denver) one morning, a continuous conga-line; we had done a pre-dawn ascent to watch meteors (perseids) and owned the summit for an hour. Thankfully there are about 600 13ers in CO who almost no one climbs, and are pretty much indistinguishable from the 14ers. I actually have a big urge to come out and climb the New England 4000-ers, having done a dozen of them, might be cool, but I'd probably do off season (late fall/early winter) ascents only to avoid your crowds.

[Slo-go'en]

. I actually have a big urge to come out and climb the New England 4000-ers, having done a dozen of them, might be cool, but I'd probably do off season (late fall/early winter) ascents only to avoid your crowds.

Doesn't matter. Late fall/early winter is as popular as any other time. It only slows down a little once the leaves fall off the trees.

[Tipi Walter]

It was up there, on the board, when I quoted it. Looking at the time references, you edited your post at 17:42 and I posted at 17:44. Two minutes. I likely had selected to quote it and started my reply just before 17:42 when it was still there, but didn't submit it until 17:44. And certainly I hope you took it as intended - just some good natured ribbing. I could delete it if you want, but likely it has already been read by all the usual suspects.

No, that's a-okay. The long post I deleted seemed overpoweringly opinionated---as usual---so it got dumped. It's now called Self-Moderation.

[The Josh]

http://appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-milers
Looks like we get an update. Numbers look to be down by about 100 for 2019. Still says it's incomplete. 627 reported NOBO completions, and 500 fewer registered at Springer.

I wish I could find a source to see how many permits Baxter State Park issues by year for Thru Hikers. I see it says 1192 NOBO at Baxter State Park, I wonder where that number comes from - is that the number of thru hiker permits they issued? Would that be closer to the true number and maybe a large chunk of people just don't report their completion, or does that number include section/flip floppers. I don't see that number for previous years and can't find anything on the Baxter SP website.