How BAD is the AT in PA??...

[BAontheTrail]

I am trying to line up a section hike for the first 3 weeks in June. Initially, I had eyed up Harpers Ferry to Delaware Water Gap (DWG) due to Amtrak stop in Harpers Ferry and a relatively short bus ride from Stroudsburg, PA to BWI airport when getting to DWG. However, I hear the rocks are not fun. I'll be coming off a full year as a school teacher (hardly any hiking besides weekend warrior type stuff).

Give me your thoughts on this section as well as potential sections with easy start/stop points coming from the deep south (Louisiana). I don't mind flying, bus for a short distance, or train.

[BlackCloud]

I don't know how people backpack PA w/o full leather boots. The rocks will pinch the sides of your boots and by day 3 you're in agony. I think the northern and southern ends are better than than the middle. As Duncannon is just north of Harrisburg, that's prob the easiest to fly into w/ a bus or taxi ride. The Trail parallels I-81 for a long time so a bus is also an option for that entire distance, through you will have to hitch or get an Uber or something those last several miles between bus stops and trail heads.

[Hikingchef]

If that looks to be too hard for you because of the rocks, you could always to SNP to Harpers Ferry.

[4eyedbuzzard]

They don't call it Rocksylvania for nothing. The middle to northern part is the worst of it. Lots of oddly angled ankle twisting, toe stubbing, tripping type rocks, which can be slippery as well. It can get tiresome, tedious, annoying at times - pick an adjective. Unless it was part of filling in miles toward a 2000 patch, I'd rather hike a lot of other AT sections that are more than just the long ridge walks which is a lot of PA. There are other sections that also have bus or train service to major airports. I would check out transportation for a similar length hike in VA (I don't know the public transport options there, but I bet you could do a 250 - 300 mile section via bus service). There's also some other similar length hikes (right around 300 miles) further north: Delaware Water Gap (bus to NYC) to North Adams/Williamstown, MA (bus to Boston), Pawling, NY (Metro North train/bus NYC) to Hanover, NH (Amtrak train NYC/bus NYC or Boston). All offer better hiking terrain IMO than PA. But if it's rocks you really want, you could go for big rocks! The 145 miles or so from Hanover, NH to Gorham, NH(bus to Boston) through the Whites is as good - and tough - as it gets! And budgeting 3 weeks with a few zeros thrown in for rest and/or weather zeros wouldn't be out of the question in the Whites. Just my opinion though, and apologies to my friends in PA.

[LittleRock]

*Disclaimer* I haven't done the northernmost 75 miles of PA yet, which many people say is the worst part of the rocks.

However, I'd argue that starting in Harper's Ferry and going north is a good place to start out (assuming the bridge over the Potomac is repaired by then). MD is mostly pretty easy: it's mostly flat, and the few climbs are pretty short. There are a few rocky sections in the northern part that will give you a small taste of what the PA rocks are like.

Southern PA (up to Duncannon) is as easy as it gets on the AT. I'd be considered a slow hiker by most, and I averaged 15 MPD on that section, no sweat. The rocks are few and far between until you get to the last ridge south of Duncannon. In fact, the rocks didn't really get annoying for me until north of Swatara Gap. Then you start to get into the parts where the trail is just a bunch of jumbled rocks sticking up at random angles. But, by then you will have been on the trail for 2 weeks and should be in good hiking shape. Just take it slow and you'll be fine.

I do agree with the people who say this section isn't that great in terms of scenery, and it definitely doesn't feel very remote at all. There are some occasional views along the ridges, and the section of open farm country between Boiling Springs and Duncannon was pretty neat, but that's about it. Also you'll get differing opinions from different people on this site, but IMO the Doyle in Duncannon was a pretty cool town stop.

[JPritch]

Also you'll get differing opinions from different people on this site, but IMO the Doyle in Duncannon was a pretty cool town stop.
I sat around a campfire one night with a couple guys who had stayed at the Doyle. After hearing their descriptions of how decrepit and dirty this place was, poor lighting, shared bathrooms and an overall fire hazard.....I just knew I had to stay!;)
Do they sell "I Survived the Doyle" shirts?

[peakbagger]

IMHO the Section north of Swatera Gap to the DWG was consistently the worse rocks in PA. South of Duncannon was some real nice walking. Duncannon to Swatera was when we started to understand the PA curse of the rocks. The climb out of Lehigh gap was a bit f a reminder of home from where we normally hike in the whites.

I hike all over the whites with trail runners and do far better on the rocks than with my prior custom leather boots. It all comes down to pre hike conditioning. I actually did the stretch from Duncannon to Swatera in sandals as my feet got blistered up from my long term leather boots. When I got home I retired the boots and have used trail runners ever since. The fundamental difference between white mountain rocks and PA rocks is in the whites you may have to rock hop between large rocks but there is high likelihood that the rock does move, in PA the rocks are smaller but its a high likelihood that they will move. its just hard to get a good stride going especially as the trail is darn close to flat in PA.

[greensleep]

[QUOTE=BAontheTrail;2262502]I am trying to line up a section hike for the first 3 weeks in June. Initially, I had eyed up Harpers Ferry to Delaware Water Gap (DWG) due to Amtrak stop in Harpers Ferry and a relatively short bus ride from Stroudsburg, PA to BWI airport when getting to DWG. However, I hear the rocks are not fun. I'll be coming off a full year as a school teacher (hardly any hiking besides weekend warrior type stuff).


I started a flip-flop thru hike attempt at DWG 2 years ago. Originally intended to hike north to Katahdin, fly back to DWG and then head south to finish. I changed my mind (don't remember specifically why) and hiked south initially instead. Turned out to be a bad choice as I took a spill in the rocks just south of Wind Gap and had to leave the trail with a bad knee injury. The rocks were as advertised and made for a relatively slow pace. A fast pole plant to save from a fall ended up getting the tip trapped between rocks and on my next stride and yet another trip on a rock that moved beneath my foot, I took a header. the carbon fiber pole broke, my right knee took the brunt of my weight and ended up on a sharp stone, and my right elbow was gashed to the bone. Upon standing, I realized the knee was "blown". Took some time to clean and bandage my elbow, then, after a couple of strides, realized that my knee would no longer support me. I hobbled around 6.5 miles, sidestepping all the way back to Wind Gap, my AT attempt over for now, and went home to surgery. It is aptly named "Rocksylvania" in northern PA!

[stephanD]

Have you thought of the Pinhoti trail in Alabama? Much closer to home.

[Slo-go'en]

I just did that section last spring. Took me just under 3 weeks. Maryland is pretty darn rocky too. On the whole MD/PA isn't all that bad. There are some nasty sections, but they tend to be relatively short -1/4 to 1/2 mile of ankle twisting BS, then back to nice, easy trail. Wind Gap to the DWG is about the worse of it, about 20 miles.

Make sure you have a boot with a good rock plate in the sole and superfeet inserts or you will bruise the bottom of your feet. Wimpy trail runners can really beat up your feet. Also make sure your feet don't roll inside the boot. When you do hit the rocky sections, most of them are pointy or set into the ground at a sideways angle. They are also randomly spaced, so you have a studdering, swaying stride. I call it hiking like a drunken sailor on the first day of shore leave.

I wouldn't worry much about the rocks, it's starting to get really hot in June and that might be an issue. But you got a lot of daylight and sunrise is early that time of year. Take advantage of it with a start at dawn, take an afternoon siesta, then finish up in the late afternoon or early evening.

Or you could head south from Harpers and to go Daleville, which is close to Roanoke and a way home. This is a much more interesting section to hike then MD/PA. It's a bit harder though, (once out of the SNP) as this is the bumpy section of VA and all the thru hikers you meet will be bitching about how VA was suppose to be flat and they were lied to. I really like that section for that reason though. It feels more like your in the mountains and have better views.

[chknfngrs]

I would suggest that you go hike this section and determine for yourself how the rocks are behaving. I mean, why not?

[FreeGoldRush]

1) You don’t hike the AT because it’s easy.
2) You will adapt.

The rocks and bolders are bad. You will learn to walk on them and find they aren’t so bad. That’s why you get wildly different opinions on PA rocks.

The boot or trailer runner choice is up to you. I did the entire trail in Speedgoats, the worst hiking shoe for technical rock hopping. Your agility is more important than footwear. You can avoid all that PA foot damage you read about by stepping correctly. I had no blister or other issues in the rocks.

You will find the rocks are a head game. Pay attention. If fatigued and making errors then rest. You can’t power through. It takes a lot of mental energy.

[Gambit McCrae]

I loved PA. The rocks bothered me zero bit. Embrace it. Enjoy it. I wore altras with no problems. I miss PA and go backa nd hike it whenever I get the chance. I met a guy in Port Clinton who had hiked all of PA something like 9 times. He said the rocks didnt bother him and I can relate.

[FlyPaper]

I am trying to line up a section hike for the first 3 weeks in June. Initially, I had eyed up Harpers Ferry to Delaware Water Gap (DWG) due to Amtrak stop in Harpers Ferry and a relatively short bus ride from Stroudsburg, PA to BWI airport when getting to DWG. However, I hear the rocks are not fun. I'll be coming off a full year as a school teacher (hardly any hiking besides weekend warrior type stuff).

Give me your thoughts on this section as well as potential sections with easy start/stop points coming from the deep south (Louisiana). I don't mind flying, bus for a short distance, or train.

So far I've hiked all but the northernmost 30 miles (which I hear may be the worst). I've done all that I've done in trail runners and have had no trouble.

So far I would say that the rocks are memorable, but generally don't drastically affect the amount you can hike in a day. It kind of makes up for it in that it is not very steep.

Generally, the really horrible rock sections are short.

Here are a couple of observations:

1. I came into Lehigh gap from the north in the rain. That was by far the most difficult hiking I've done on the whole AT. It might have been much easier had it not be raining. Also, it would probably have been easier going north. For the rocky sections, wetness is a huge factor. For example, look at the GutHook comments for Knife Edge. Those that crossed in the rain say it was extremely hard. Those that crossed on a dry day say it was a nice little rock scramble.

2. Lack of water was a big logistical hurdle for us even though there was no serious drought in the region. Aside from times when drought was very serious, northern PA has been the most difficult in terms of water.

3. The age of your shoes/boots is very important. A nice pair of shoes that has been sitting in your closet for a few years and still look almost new are probably going to be shredded in PA. If your shoes/boots were recently purchased, they'll do much better.

[Slo-go'en]

I've hiked PA four times now. Once was probably enough :)

I might do Harpers south again this spring. I did say I liked that section, didn't I.

[ldsailor]

I did Harpers Ferry to Wind Gap (about 15 miles south of DWG) a couple of years ago. While the rocks were annoying, I didn't think they were as bad as everyone made them out to be. Certainly the southern part of the state was not bad at all as far as rocks were concerned. Lehigh gap is a bit intimidating, but then I hiked in northern New Hampshire and Maine and now I laugh at Lehigh Gap.

[Alligator]

I split PA into two sections and it took about 14 hiking days. I was in good section hiking shape at the time. I averaged I think 17 mpd and 15 mpd, the rocks slowed me down 2 mpd but weren't particularly terrible. I wore trail runners and continue to do so even in the rockiest sections of the AT. I am a pretty good rock hopper though and fluid on trail. I will say with experience moving through the rocks becomes more intuitive, at least it has for me.

[Strategic]

I've spent a lot of time sectioning the trail in PA (used to live in Philly) and yes, it does have a lot of rocks. You'll develop the "Pennsylvania Rock Hop" pretty quickly as you go north. The good thing is that you're planning to do it the right way, NOBO. That gives you the MD and southern PA sections to warm up for the real rocks that start north of Swatara Gap. As long as you don't try to do this in trail runners, you'll be fine. Despite what a lot of people would have you think, the trail is quite nice otherwise and has some great aspects (some really good views from particular high points like Bake Oven Knob, exciting ridge walking like the Knife Edge, etc.) and some of the best shelters going (Quarry Gap is outstanding.) It's a great hike, so enjoy yourself and don't let anyone scare you off.

[stephanD]

I've spent a lot of time sectioning the trail in PA (used to live in Philly) and yes, it does have a lot of rocks. You'll develop the "Pennsylvania Rock Hop" pretty quickly as you go north. The good thing is that you're planning to do it the right way, NOBO. That gives you the MD and southern PA sections to warm up for the real rocks that start north of Swatara Gap. As long as you don't try to do this in trail runners, you'll be fine. Despite what a lot of people would have you think, the trail is quite nice otherwise and has some great aspects (some really good views from particular high points like Bake Oven Knob, exciting ridge walking like the Knife Edge, etc.) and some of the best shelters going (Quarry Gap is outstanding.) It's a great hike, so enjoy yourself and don't let anyone scare you off.
And don't forget the AT museum in Pine Grove Furnace State Park.

[CalebJ]

I've only done the northernmost 110 miles or so (from Swatara Gap to DWG) but didn't think they were particularly bad. Trail runners were perfectly fine the entire time.

[Recalc]

I never got into any kind of rhythm when hiking Northern PA. Another hiker told me it was in my interest to stay on top of the rocks to extent possible (as opposed to going between them). Is that good advice?

[Alligator]

I never got into any kind of rhythm when hiking Northern PA. Another hiker told me it was in my interest to stay on top of the rocks to extent possible (as opposed to going between them). Is that good advice?I aim for flatter, wider spots in order to land more of my sole while also minimizing repeated up and down (height) changes, which can be energy wasteful. So I might stay on the rocks or drop between. I avoid tight crevices which can squeeze my shoe sides as well as pointy rock tops which poke. I also scan ahead for flatter routes, sometimes this is a series of rocks rather than patches of dirt trail. Yet another thing I do is add in tilted but flat in the tilt of the plane rocks where I can plant my foot and lean into my poles.

[Slo-go'en]

Sometimes you can step around the rocks, other times you have to rock hop. All I know is the toes of my boots got tore up real bad from dragging them across the top of rocks. The sides of the boots got tore up from getting caught between rocks.

[4eyedbuzzard]

The northern 100 miles of trail in PA has LOTS of trail that looks like the pics below (taken near Wind Gap) - and where it isn't almost completely rock there are plenty just sticking up out of the ground in the middle of the trail waiting for your toes and ankles. Careful foot placement is a must.

46059

46060

46061

[Slo-go'en]

Every state has it's own unique challenges. In PA it's the dreaded rocks. To some extent, this is overly hyped but it is what it is. From a geological aspect, it is an interesting area.

I once hiked thru PA with a retired NP ranger. He would often mudder "just painting blazes on trees and rocks doesn't make a trail". Except in PA. Finding the route through the rock mazes is fun. Unless it's raining. The rocks are randomly spaced and at random heights and angles. At times you have to stop and look around to find the proper path. Look out for rattle snakes too, they like the sunny rocks.

[FreeGoldRush]

I never got into any kind of rhythm when hiking Northern PA. Another hiker told me it was in my interest to stay on top of the rocks to extent possible (as opposed to going between them). Is that good advice?
Agreed. Be agile. Stay on top of the rocks.

[Malto]

It is every bit as bad as you expect it to be. Or, it’s every bit as good as you expect as well. All depends on whether you are looking for what is cool or what sucks. I actually enjoy dancing across the the rocks in Pa, except for maybe the section from Wind Gap to DWG. I think the rocks of Pa are the most overhyped thing on the AT, but then again I live in Pa and trail run on the AT so I’m a bit biased.

[BAontheTrail]

Have you thought of the Pinhoti trail in Alabama? Much closer to home.

Thought, yes. I am looking further north on the AT to avoid the stifling heat/humidity in the South. Also avoiding some ticks.

[Slo-go'en]

Thought, yes. I am looking further north on the AT to avoid the stifling heat/humidity in the South. Also avoiding some ticks.

With all the deer in PA, it's ground zero for Lyme. I recommend PA in the early spring to minimize the risk and to avoid the stifling heat/humidity which starts to build in around early June.

[BAontheTrail]

If that looks to be too hard for you because of the rocks, you could always to SNP to Harpers Ferry.

I have been in SNP before, mostly blue blazing, but I will look into this idea. Thanks for commenting!


They don't call it Rocksylvania for nothing. The middle to northern part is the worst of it. Lots of oddly angled ankle twisting, toe stubbing, tripping type rocks, which can be slippery as well. It can get tiresome, tedious, annoying at times - pick an adjective. Unless it was part of filling in miles toward a 2000 patch, I'd rather hike a lot of other AT sections that are more than just the long ridge walks which is a lot of PA. There are other sections that also have bus or train service to major airports. I would check out transportation for a similar length hike in VA (I don't know the public transport options there, but I bet you could do a 250 - 300 mile section via bus service). There's also some other similar length hikes (right around 300 miles) further north: Delaware Water Gap (bus to NYC) to North Adams/Williamstown, MA (bus to Boston), Pawling, NY (Metro North train/bus NYC) to Hanover, NH (Amtrak train NYC/bus NYC or Boston). All offer better hiking terrain IMO than PA. But if it's rocks you really want, you could go for big rocks! The 145 miles or so from Hanover, NH to Gorham, NH(bus to Boston) through the Whites is as good - and tough - as it gets! And budgeting 3 weeks with a few zeros thrown in for rest and/or weather zeros wouldn't be out of the question in the Whites. Just my opinion though, and apologies to my friends in PA.

The scenery is something I am taking into account, as this is sort of a detox from the teaching year. While not hugely important, I really appreciate the suggestions for transportation to/from other parts of the trail. Thanks so much!!


*Disclaimer* I haven't done the northernmost 75 miles of PA yet, which many people say is the worst part of the rocks.

However, I'd argue that starting in Harper's Ferry and going north is a good place to start out (assuming the bridge over the Potomac is repaired by then). MD is mostly pretty easy: it's mostly flat, and the few climbs are pretty short. There are a few rocky sections in the northern part that will give you a small taste of what the PA rocks are like.

Southern PA (up to Duncannon) is as easy as it gets on the AT. I'd be considered a slow hiker by most, and I averaged 15 MPD on that section, no sweat. The rocks are few and far between until you get to the last ridge south of Duncannon. In fact, the rocks didn't really get annoying for me until north of Swatara Gap. Then you start to get into the parts where the trail is just a bunch of jumbled rocks sticking up at random angles. But, by then you will have been on the trail for 2 weeks and should be in good hiking shape. Just take it slow and you'll be fine.

I do agree with the people who say this section isn't that great in terms of scenery, and it definitely doesn't feel very remote at all. There are some occasional views along the ridges, and the section of open farm country between Boiling Springs and Duncannon was pretty neat, but that's about it. Also you'll get differing opinions from different people on this site, but IMO the Doyle in Duncannon was a pretty cool town stop.

I am liking the idea of the warm up on easy terrain out of Harpers Ferry (I'm really hoping the pedestrian bridge is fixed) and then getting to the rocks.


I hike all over the whites with trail runners and do far better on the rocks than with my prior custom leather boots. It all comes down to pre hike conditioning. I actually did the stretch from Duncannon to Swatera in sandals as my feet got blistered up from my long term leather boots. When I got home I retired the boots and have used trail runners ever since. The fundamental difference between white mountain rocks and PA rocks is in the whites you may have to rock hop between large rocks but there is high likelihood that the rock does move, in PA the rocks are smaller but its a high likelihood that they will move. its just hard to get a good stride going especially as the trail is darn close to flat in PA.

I hike in trail runners as well, plus some nice inserts.


I just did that section last spring. Took me just under 3 weeks. Maryland is pretty darn rocky too. On the whole MD/PA isn't all that bad. There are some nasty sections, but they tend to be relatively short -1/4 to 1/2 mile of ankle twisting BS, then back to nice, easy trail. Wind Gap to the DWG is about the worse of it, about 20 miles.

Make sure you have a boot with a good rock plate in the sole and superfeet inserts or you will bruise the bottom of your feet. Wimpy trail runners can really beat up your feet. Also make sure your feet don't roll inside the boot. When you do hit the rocky sections, most of them are pointy or set into the ground at a sideways angle. They are also randomly spaced, so you have a studdering, swaying stride. I call it hiking like a drunken sailor on the first day of shore leave.

I wouldn't worry much about the rocks, it's starting to get really hot in June and that might be an issue. But you got a lot of daylight and sunrise is early that time of year. Take advantage of it with a start at dawn, take an afternoon siesta, then finish up in the late afternoon or early evening.

Or you could head south from Harpers and to go Daleville, which is close to Roanoke and a way home. This is a much more interesting section to hike then MD/PA. It's a bit harder though, (once out of the SNP) as this is the bumpy section of VA and all the thru hikers you meet will be bitching about how VA was suppose to be flat and they were lied to. I really like that section for that reason though. It feels more like your in the mountains and have better views.

Rock plate, CHECK. Siestas, SUPER CHECK!!!


I would suggest that you go hike this section and determine for yourself how the rocks are behaving. I mean, why not?

I like the way you reason.


I've spent a lot of time sectioning the trail in PA (used to live in Philly) and yes, it does have a lot of rocks. You'll develop the "Pennsylvania Rock Hop" pretty quickly as you go north. The good thing is that you're planning to do it the right way, NOBO. That gives you the MD and southern PA sections to warm up for the real rocks that start north of Swatara Gap. As long as you don't try to do this in trail runners, you'll be fine. Despite what a lot of people would have you think, the trail is quite nice otherwise and has some great aspects (some really good views from particular high points like Bake Oven Knob, exciting ridge walking like the Knife Edge, etc.) and some of the best shelters going (Quarry Gap is outstanding.) It's a great hike, so enjoy yourself and don't let anyone scare you off.

Somehow you've made the rocks sound enticing with your PA ROCK HOP term. Sounds like a dance move (think the Lindy Hop).

[BAontheTrail]

With all the deer in PA, it's ground zero for Lyme. I recommend PA in the early spring to minimize the risk and to avoid the stifling heat/humidity which starts to build in around early June.

I was hoping someone would comment with this info. Maybe I should go even further north on the AT??...

[peakbagger]

Lyme is pretty well prevalent in much of the trail south of the Whites. The AT in the whites, the Mahoosucs and the ridgelines in Maine do not have deer ticks yet. They are definitely south of the whites and in Maine south of the AT. There were no ticks to speak of 20 years ago in the whites but the wood ticks are moving in so given the warmer climate I expect the deer ticks will be moving north also. Of course there are not a lot of deer in the whites or on the ridgeline through Maine so that may slow them down.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I was hoping someone would comment with this info. Maybe I should go even further north on the AT??...About the only place you won't find ticks on the AT is in the higher elevations of NH and ME. But it's possible to get them in the lower elevations where there's more wildlife and browse. Like anywhere else, they tend to be worse in areas where you have to walk through long grass or overgrown vegetation. They're not as bad as in MA and south, but you still need to check for them. Treating clothing with permethrin is recommended.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

I don't perceive it as good or bad. i see it more as just another set of conditions to adapt.

I blew through PA averaging greater MPD than VA not with the rocks on one AT thru/completion. Why?, two main attributes/two main reasons I surmise: 1) I was going lighter wt and lighter bulk by the time hence less momentum fighting a heavier shifting larger load, sidewards and forwards. Further, I learned less momentum loss side to side movement stops and loss walking techniques. I learned to glide with less effort like a lumber jack does on rolly poly logs floating in a river as they walked/ran across them. 2) My approach to the rocks. The system I often adopted was going over the top anticipating which rocks would roll and how they would roll. In that over the top approach I sought out rocks that had firmer non rolly polly-ness. I learned to read the terrain better and adapt to it rather that fight it or going down to a negative mental state like lumber jacks do on those shifting rolly poly floating logs. Logs larger may have less resistance to rolling more surface are to step. larger rocks same thing! Too often in larger rock sections taking a stepping between the rocks slower pace approach I found my ankle bone - that ball on the exterior and interior part of the ankle that is currently evading my mind issuing a more precise medical term, caught/rubbed on the rocks even at times wearing taller hikers or boots or with gaiters or high socks. I think a over the top approach can be more important attempting to go fast and if utilizing low cut hiker shoes or trail runners. However I saw some speed through rock sections taking only a between rocks foot placement approach also gliding with trekking poles like a mogul skier. Sure enough when asking some of these folk of their abilities they were also snow skiers sometimes specializing in moguls. I learned that hiking requires improvisation and adaption.

[Dogwood]

Every state has it's own unique challenges. In PA it's the dreaded rocks. To some extent, this is overly hyped but it is what it is. From a geological aspect, it is an interesting area.

I once hiked thru PA with a retired NP ranger. He would often mudder "just painting blazes on trees and rocks doesn't make a trail". Except in PA. Finding the route through the rock mazes is fun. Unless it's raining. The rocks are randomly spaced and at random heights and angles. At times you have to stop and look around to find the proper path. Look out for rattle snakes too, they like the sunny rocks.
This too. Lots of timber rattlers I've found on the PA AT state section. Don't hike not being able to hear. Situational awareness.

The ticks? It's been so over discussed and hyped up IMHO. Lack of getting up to speed on prevention can be the cause with so much Lyme Disease. Poor immunology of an individual not as often discussed can be another. Preventing tick bites is not a hard thing when on the move in PA nor is it at rest. FWIW, far greater tick infestation in the Pinelands Preserve in NJ such as on the Batona Tr which is no where near the AT. I lived here for yrs. And people hike the BT(Back to Nature) Tr not getting a tick bit or Lyme Disease during the hts of tick infestation and movement. I've done it twice and many sections of it many other times.

The climbs in PA and elsewhere?, take them like any other - slower and more deliberately with lower impact movements especially the steep one heading down into Hamburg area going down to the train yard going NOBO and in inclement weather conditions. Beware of those steep and extremely deep higher riser ht step downs that should be taken by making more than a one larger higher riser ht down movement. Beware of avoiding extensively long stride lengths on steep descents and in wet or icy conditions even in summer with dew on grass or more slippery wet leaves on flats that can act like slick ice or trail construction made of wood or roots that can be as or more slippery than slippery rock crossings a stream. Steep descents in NH in The Whites and especially Mt Moosilauke NOBO - that when wet or with black ice IMHO is one of the most hazardous descents of the entire AT), MA - going NOBO over Mt Greylock steep but rather short with some deep steep downs NORTH SIDE that should be taken by breaking up the riser hts into several smaller riser ht increments. These can be applied to ascents as well. NO NO NO trekking poles are not the only way to reduce slips trips and falls, ease descents, and lower impacts to joints and muscles and achieve enhanced balance. Ignoring these things are as much marketing short sightedness attempting to sell more trekking poles!!!! It occurs!!! Gear is NOT the only way to solution-ing.

This is to say it's not always the terrain that makes things hazardous but our approaches, who we are! To turn one's mind off, situation awareness off, often leads to trouble! That is not to say this gear junkie ignores the roles gear can play.

[Dogwood]

I've spent a lot of time sectioning the trail in PA (used to live in Philly) and yes, it does have a lot of rocks. You'll develop the "Pennsylvania Rock Hop" pretty quickly as you go north. The good thing is that you're planning to do it the right way, NOBO. That gives you the MD and southern PA sections to warm up for the real rocks that start north of Swatara Gap. As long as you don't try to do this in trail runners, you'll be fine. Despite what a lot of people would have you think, the trail is quite nice otherwise and has some great aspects (some really good views from particular high points like Bake Oven Knob, exciting ridge walking like the Knife Edge, etc.) and some of the best shelters going (Quarry Gap is outstanding.) It's a great hike, so enjoy yourself and don't let anyone scare you off.

I like almost all of what Strategic is posting.

1) the rocks of PA and PA has so much to offer positively and as a challenge to embrace/"embrace the suck", perhaps negatively perceived at at first that can be taken ultimately into positives. I too like adapting and thinking outside of the box contradictory to norms which irritates some making me seem more irascible than I can be ;):confused:
2) don't buy into the Rocksylvania PA AT is "BAD" hype, as Stewart says. Get your mind /mentality in a better place. The more focus on how bad and non rewarding PA AT and rocks the more we find of it. Create the mindset by focusing on how GREAT PA AT and rocks can be! It opens the mind to greater solutions. Be more solution minded than complaint fault finding minded. OMG this applies not just to hiking!
3) his PA Rock Hop talk which is similar to techniques what I've seen in mogul skiers taking deep moguls or lumberjacks employ running across floating rolly poly log jams never falling or slipping either with a supporting staff or without one or describes the top of rocks approach I often take in rocks.

[Dogwood]

What is deemed bad or good, and for that matter if breathability is a market scam/ does not work , it sucks to hike in the rain, WP shoes suck, it's hard to hike the AT, I'm not at the right place to attempt an AT thru hike, etc are matters of perspective. Read Anthony Andrews? books like The Observer in concluding it's a matter of perspective one of the greatest lessons I've ever read through a book,,,which is also a matter of perspective coming to that conclusion. LOL.

[Dogwood]

Silence on Sun which can be a day of higher WB activity. Everyone suddenly go to church or be mesmerized all day with a NFL playoff game that started what time?, spending long hrs at Sun brunch, too long a post which is rather comparatively short OR did some nerves get plucked, offense taken, ignoring occur after reading so to not change limiting habits defending a complaining mindset hitting home? Resistance is rampant not just here on WB but society. Alternatively, one can be joyous knowledge wisdom and a less limiting mind less ignorance is being offered through behavioral change. People don't like to change their behaviors me to at times.

[Astro]

I sat around a campfire one night with a couple guys who had stayed at the Doyle. After hearing their descriptions of how decrepit and dirty this place was, poor lighting, shared bathrooms and an overall fire hazard.....I just knew I had to stay!;)
Do they sell "I Survived the Doyle" shirts?

They Should! :D

[South Walker]

As a SOBO back in 1999 all I heard from the NOBOs was how bad PA was. I wasn't a fast hiker but I managed to average about 15 miles per day. Yes there are rocks but there are also a number of ridge walks between gaps in which you could stretch out.
I think the NOBO experience of PA is in part explained by what they have just accomplished. Came from GA, struggled a bit in the heat in VA and then had an easy time in SNP. Get to PA and the rocks causes them to have to slow down a bit and breakes their stride. It brings frustration.
That is my take on it.
I wouldn't mind doing PA again.

[Dogwood]

It is every bit as bad as you expect it to be. Or, it’s every bit as good as you expect as well. All depends on whether you are looking for what is cool or what sucks. I actually enjoy dancing across the the rocks in Pa, except for maybe the section from Wind Gap to DWG. I think the rocks of Pa are the most overhyped thing on the AT, but then again I live in Pa and trail run on the AT so I’m a bit biased.

Depends on one's perspective as Malto says. Change your perspective, or as Wayne Dwyer said "change the way you're looking at thing the things you're looking at change."

[illabelle]

I don't perceive it as good or bad. i see it more as just another set of conditions to adapt.

I blew through PA averaging greater MPD than VA not with the rocks on one AT thru/completion. Why?, two main attributes/two main reasons I surmise: 1) I was going lighter wt and lighter bulk by the time hence less momentum fighting a heavier shifting larger load, sidewards and forwards. Further, I learned less momentum loss side to side movement stops and loss walking techniques. I learned to glide with less effort like a lumber jack does on rolly poly logs floating in a river as they walked/ran across them. 2) My approach to the rocks. The system I often adopted was going over the top anticipating which rocks would roll and how they would roll. In that over the top approach I sought out rocks that had firmer non rolly polly-ness. I learned to read the terrain better and adapt to it rather that fight it or going down to a negative mental state like lumber jacks do on those shifting rolly poly floating logs. Logs larger may have less resistance to rolling more surface are to step. larger rocks same thing! Too often in larger rock sections taking a stepping between the rocks slower pace approach I found my ankle bone - that ball on the exterior and interior part of the ankle that is currently evading my mind issuing a more precise medical term, caught/rubbed on the rocks even at times wearing taller hikers or boots or with gaiters or high socks. I think a over the top approach can be more important attempting to go fast and if utilizing low cut hiker shoes or trail runners. However I saw some speed through rock sections taking only a between rocks foot placement approach also gliding with trekking poles like a mogul skier. Sure enough when asking some of these folk of their abilities they were also snow skiers sometimes specializing in moguls. I learned that hiking requires improvisation and adaption.

This post reminds me of a Facebook video I saw this morning. A herd of sheep is clogging a fenced farm road. A border collie can't get through them or around them, so he runs like wildfire across the top of them!

[Dogwood]

ha hee he he Why isn't this in the Humor Forum. see none, me included dont know all things TU Illa LOL humor intended back at ya. ;)
gratitude OMG it gets some through thru hikes...so much more. :cool::)

[stephanD]

You will pass by some AT landmarks:
1. The Washington monument in Maryland
2. the shelter with the "snoring" and "no snoring" sections
3. The iconic half way sign.
4. The AT museum and the Ironmaster's hostel
5. as already mentioned, the Doyle in Duncannon. Even if you don't stay there, do not miss the draft beer.

[FlyPaper]

I never got into any kind of rhythm when hiking Northern PA. Another hiker told me it was in my interest to stay on top of the rocks to extent possible (as opposed to going between them). Is that good advice?

Do whatever reduces up/down motion. Often that is on top of rocks. Sometimes it works out best to step between them, particularly when the tops of rocks are wet or pointed and it's possible to find easy foot placement between rocks.

[LittleRock]

Couple random thoughts I had while hiking in PA:

Some people will tell you the PA rocks are a result of geology, the last ice age, etc. That is FALSE. The rocks were installed by the PA chamber of commerce in the 1950's to get future hikers to spend more time and money in the state.

The hostels in PA should start doing work for stay where they drop hikers off at the trailheads with jackhammers and come back after a few hours. After 10 or 20 years, the AT will be a nice, flat gravel path through PA.

[Gambit McCrae]

If anyone needs a play by play, Rohlands (http://rohland.homedns.org:8008/at/at_menu.aspx) website offers mile by mile pics of the entire AT. All the highlights are in there

[illabelle]

If anyone needs a play by play, Rohlands (http://rohland.homedns.org:8008/at/at_menu.aspx) website offers mile by mile pics of the entire AT. All the highlights are in there

Been on Rohlands several times, but never clicked on the pictures. Didn't know they had a visual library of the trail. Awesome, thanks!!

[4eyedbuzzard]

Couple random thoughts I had while hiking in PA:

Some people will tell you the PA rocks are a result of geology, the last ice age, etc. That is FALSE. The rocks were installed by the PA chamber of commerce in the 1950's to get future hikers to spend more time and money in the state.

The hostels in PA should start doing work for stay where they drop hikers off at the trailheads with jackhammers and come back after a few hours. After 10 or 20 years, the AT will be a nice, flat gravel path through PA.The old joke "back in the day" was that the hiking boot companies paid the trail maintainers to sharpen up the rocks to increase boot sales.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Slo-go'en]

But then again, PA would be pretty boring with out the occasional nasty rocky patch. There really wouldn't be much else to talk about.

[Recalc]

The old joke "back in the day" was that the hiking boot companies paid the trail maintainers to sharpen up the rocks to increase boot sales.


A PA local asked me if I noticed the 1 mile stretch having almost no rocks? He responded "We fired him!".

[peakbagger]

I remember one rocky stretch south of Eagles Nest Shelter in PA year ago that went to great lengths to avoid an underground utility right of way with a dirt road that ran along the top of the ridge. The trail crossed the road on occasion and then paralleled the road in the woods over classic PA rocks until the next random crossing. The openings back into the woods were not obvious on and off the road so it would be difficult to just walk the road and skip the rocks. The PA maps at the time were poor, we had the PA AT map current at the time that was basically a copy of an older black and white USGS map with the AT shown as a thick black line with shelters on it. If you looked carefully, the base USGS map had the AT that was present when the base map was first printed. It was quite obvious that the original AT route just stuck to the ridgeline on the road and cut out the zig zagging. I also remember sections where the trail was on an very old woods road at the top of the ridge where the footing was not so bad. Anytime we started to come up on a communications tower on the ridge, the trail would take sharp turn off the ridge then parallel the ridge on the infamous rocks then promptly would go back up on the ridge once the tower was passed. My guess its a result of NPS effort to formalize and protect the AT route but after miles of rocks, diversions off of easy walking were definitely not appreciated.

[MisterQ]

I remember one rocky stretch south of Eagles Nest Shelter in PA year ago that went to great lengths to avoid an underground utility right of way with a dirt road that ran along the top of the ridge. The trail crossed the road on occasion and then paralleled the road in the woods over classic PA rocks until the next random crossing. The openings back into the woods were not obvious on and off the road so it would be difficult to just walk the road and skip the rocks. The PA maps at the time were poor, we had the PA AT map current at the time that was basically a copy of an older black and white USGS map with the AT shown as a thick black line with shelters on it. If you looked carefully, the base USGS map had the AT that was present when the base map was first printed. It was quite obvious that the original AT route just stuck to the ridgeline on the road and cut out the zig zagging. I also remember sections where the trail was on an very old woods road at the top of the ridge where the footing was not so bad. Anytime we started to come up on a communications tower on the ridge, the trail would take sharp turn off the ridge then parallel the ridge on the infamous rocks then promptly would go back up on the ridge once the tower was passed. My guess its a result of NPS effort to formalize and protect the AT route but after miles of rocks, diversions off of easy walking were definitely not appreciated.

Yes there is a flat, rock free service road that runs from the game commission parking lot on 183 to within a tenth of a mile of that shelter. The trail is a rocky mess in that area. When I hiked that section with a few friends, another friend of ours who has bad feet but likes to camp met us at the shelter by riding his bicycle up the service road and bushwacking a tenth of a mile through the woods using his GPS. Meanwhile we were abusing our feet on several miles of rocks.

[BAontheTrail]

As a SOBO back in 1999 all I heard from the NOBOs was how bad PA was. I wasn't a fast hiker but I managed to average about 15 miles per day. Yes there are rocks but there are also a number of ridge walks between gaps in which you could stretch out.
I think the NOBO experience of PA is in part explained by what they have just accomplished. Came from GA, struggled a bit in the heat in VA and then had an easy time in SNP. Get to PA and the rocks causes them to have to slow down a bit and breakes their stride. It brings frustration.
That is my take on it.
I wouldn't mind doing PA again.

Like most comments in this thread, perspective is key. I totally get your comments on NOBOs mindset when getting into PA.

I've been mulling it over since my original post here. I think I'm going to do this section, regardless of the footbridge situation in Harpers Ferry. I'll be coming off teaching at 4 different schools per week, with different grades and different resources each day. I have a feeling this section may still feel like a great escape and reset after this work year. Thanks y'all!!!!!

[LDog]

I am trying to line up a section hike for the first 3 weeks in June. Initially, I had eyed up Harpers Ferry to Delaware Water Gap (DWG) due to Amtrak stop in Harpers Ferry and a relatively short bus ride from Stroudsburg, PA to BWI airport when getting to DWG. However, I hear the rocks are not fun. I'll be coming off a full year as a school teacher (hardly any hiking besides weekend warrior type stuff)...

It's a cool section. The rocks got there cause the glacier stopped there and dumped the last of the rocks it carried down from Canada. Erratics they are. Erratics cause they are not products of the original geology. As you go north you'll see these erratics getting bigger. By NY they're as big as boulders. Glaciers reformed the whole north country, and you get to walk thru it, and see what they did

No section is inherently bad or good. They is what they is. And whatever you bring to it. And how you choose to react to them. I preferred to find it fun. Stepping on, over and around them is like dancing. Dancing with Mother Earth.

Real mountain folk dance with their mothers ...

[Slo-go'en]

No section is inherently bad or good. They is what they is. And whatever you bring to it. And how you choose to react to them. I preferred to find it fun. Stepping on, over and around them is like dancing. Dancing with Mother Earth.

Real mountain folk dance with their mothers ...

Indeed, but after a while it becomes tedious and you just want it to end. Crossing into NJ is such a relief.

BTW, I call it the "the three step rock hop bop". A dance with a broken rhythm.

[Ethesis]

As a SOBO back in 1999 all I heard from the NOBOs was how bad PA was. I wasn't a fast hiker but I managed to average about 15 miles per day. Yes there are rocks but there are also a number of ridge walks between gaps in which you could stretch out.
I think the NOBO experience of PA is in part explained by what they have just accomplished. Came from GA, struggled a bit in the heat in VA and then had an easy time in SNP. Get to PA and the rocks causes them to have to slow down a bit and breakes their stride. It brings frustration.
That is my take on it.
I wouldn't mind doing PA again.

so, how do the rocks compare to the rocks in Maine or New Hampshire?

that is all I really want to know as I get ready to head back out this year.

thanks!

[Ethesis]

You will pass by some AT landmarks:
1. The Washington monument in Maryland
2. the shelter with the "snoring" and "no snoring" sections
3. The iconic half way sign.
4. The AT museum and the Ironmaster's hostel
5. as already mentioned, the Doyle in Duncannon. Even if you don't stay there, do not miss the draft beer.
Yes. But you hit all of those before the rocks.

[Slo-go'en]

so, how do the rocks compare to the rocks in Maine or New Hampshire?

that is all I really want to know as I get ready to head back out this year.

thanks!


It can be a little bumpy, but the view...
Although this is a really tame piece of trail until it goes over that cliff.
46108

Then there are climbs like this which are fun:
46109

[Ethesis]

It can be a little bumpy, but the view...
Although this is a really tame piece of trail until it goes over that cliff.
46108

Then there are climbs like this which are fun:
46109



so. Difficult but not as bad as the Whites. I’ve done the Whites and really appreciate the benchmark.

thank you.

[BAontheTrail]

It's a cool section. The rocks got there cause the glacier stopped there and dumped the last of the rocks it carried down from Canada. Erratics they are. Erratics cause they are not products of the original geology. As you go north you'll see these erratics getting bigger. By NY they're as big as boulders. Glaciers reformed the whole north country, and you get to walk thru it, and see what they did

No section is inherently bad or good. They is what they is. And whatever you bring to it. And how you choose to react to them. I preferred to find it fun. Stepping on, over and around them is like dancing. Dancing with Mother Earth.

Real mountain folk dance with their mothers ...
These are the tidbits I like hearing, they really make the romantic notion of hiking in the wilderness worth the time/effort. I appreciate your input and will think about this when I'm dancing with mother Earth. Rock on!!


Indeed, but after a while it becomes tedious and you just want it to end. Crossing into NJ is such a relief.

BTW, I call it the "the three step rock hop bop". A dance with a broken rhythm.
As a musician/drummer (cue the drummer jokes!), I truly appreciate both the dance title and your description of it. Good laughs!


It can be a little bumpy, but the view...
Although this is a really tame piece of trail until it goes over that cliff.
46108

Then there are climbs like this which are fun:
46109
That first pic!! WOWWWWW! and the same to the second, but with a different tone. I will think of it as a new challenge that I do not get to experience down here in flat, Southern Louisiana.

[Deadeye]

I was going to say something about your own attitude being the only reason the trail could be called "bad", but LDog said it best... go dance with Mother Rock.

[steve_zavocki]

I just finished three days of section hikes in PA yesterday. As many have said the rocks are really not that bad. I consider PA one of the easiest states I have hiked on the AT. I hiked Ecksville to Port Clinton SB on Monday Feb 3 and it was perfect. I had the Pinnacle to myself for a half hour in the sunshine. I would consider that section the easiest in the state that I have hiked. (I hiked the Northern 100 miles up to this point). I was in short sleeves by the end, in Feb, in PA!

I also hiked 183 to Port Clinton NB on Saturday. This section is relatively easy, but has lots of smallish rocks perfect for tripping. Only one view on the whole section, so save this one for a bad weather day if you are a section hiker like me. The drop into Port Clinton is as steep as anything in the Whites, but much shorter.

Lastly, I hiked 183 to 501 SB with my 9 year old son. This 9.3 mile section has the hardest rocks of the three sections but also several nice views. You can hear the roar of I-78 pretty much the whole way. Guthooks has the section mislabeled for a few miles, follow the blazes (obviously!).

Another tip, the hiker parking lot for Port Clinton is accessible only from 61 Southbound. The blue blaze back to it from the trail is tricky to find. After leaving the town, the AT North follows an old road for a while then veers into the woods for about 0.1 then back to the old road. The blue blaze to the parking lot is found during that little section where the AT is next to the river. Not a big deal, but it would be nice if there was a sign. You cannot park anymore at Blue Mountain Road and 61. Guthooks shows a photo of cars parked there, but now, large boulders have been places along the side of the road.

[NJHiker]

PA ate my Zamberlan boots....and is well on it's way to munching the soles off my Lowa replacements. Susquahana to DWG is pretty rocky - and Lehigh Gap can be like walking on Mars... More than the rocks, hikers need to stay aware of the critters, rattlesnakes and copperheads that hide under them. No matter - I love hiking in PA - it's close, it's accessible, the southern PA shelters up to Boiling Springs are amazing and hikers "on the bubble" are humbled by the time y'all get to us.

[Another Kevin]

so, how do the rocks compare to the rocks in Maine or New Hampshire?
that is all I really want to know as I get ready to head back out this year.
If you're accustomed to the Whites or the Mahoosucs, you wonder what people talking about the Pennsylvania Rocks are going on about. The Pennsylvania Rocks are, uhm, rockier than anything you see prior to that going NOBO. But a New England hiker will tell you, "get used to it. There's lots more of this Up North."

Note that I avoided "bad" or "worse" there. Think of it as a playground equipment for grownups to climb on.

Even the Catskill Crud, which comes from more or less the same geologic formation, has the Poconos beat. Typical piece of Catskills trail:
https://live.staticflickr.com/7460/9764652672_35259ea47e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/fSSp3y)Typical section of trail (https://flic.kr/p/fSSp3y) by Kevin Kenny (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/), on Flickr

Less typical, but it happens:
https://live.staticflickr.com/3767/9764802355_0bc472276d.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/fSTaxi)Rock scramble (https://flic.kr/p/fSTaxi) by Kevin Kenny (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/), on Flickr

[RockDoc]

"Originally Posted by LDog https://whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2263569#post2263569)

The rocks got there cause the glacier stopped there and dumped the last of the rocks it carried down from Canada. Erratics they are."



Uh, sorry but that's incorrect. The devil's racecourse rock fields in Pennsylvania are periglacial artifacts, assembled very slowly at a time when the process of ice spalling from outcrops was at a maximum. This happens in the zone below the elevation, or at lower latitude, than the ice sheet. The rocks in Penn could represent hundreds of thousands of years of accumulation. But no they were not brought south by the ice. They are locally derived.

The funny thing that I've noticed in Penn is that you often can't find the source outcrops at the heads of the racecourses! Apparently the physical decomposition was extremely effective, probably because it went on for so long. Bedrock is present at depth of course. Probably many of these racecourses had ice cores, like Rocky Mountain ice glaciers. There is sometimes evidence of downhill transport of these large detrital rock masses, which occurs by processes similar to glacier movement. There are many studies of periglacial rock streams in the geomorphology literature. It's not a contentious subject.

The ice sheet stopped at the Delaware Water Gap, at which point NOBOs notice that there are no more devils racecourses, and you suddenly see huge erratics the size of cars embedded in a matrix of clay and sand.

Or, did I misunderstand your statement?

[NH_]

I thru hiked in 2018. My opinion, and of those I crossed PA with, was that the reputation is way overblown. I was expecting 200 miles of rocks. It was really a mile or two here and there. And zero elevation change.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[BAontheTrail]

I just purchased my Amtrak ticket yesterday to bring me into Harpers Ferry in early June!!! Now I have something to look forward to =]
I've also been checking out the thread about alternate options across the Potomac River on the MARC train. I'll be doing that if the walking option is still not figured out by then.

[44terryberry]

Having hiked the A.T. in Pennsylvania all my life, I can tell you that most of the Trail is not pleasant . There are some short sections without rocks,but not many.My domain is about 50 miles each side of Hamburg. Lots of rattlesnakes and copperheads to boot. If the Trail dont kill you here,the snakes will

[Crossup]

I agree with the posts on attitude and the general concept of being able to embrace the suck when you perceive it to suck. But for me the determinant is simple- if a 68yo. small man can hump a 45lb pack over the rocks in trail runners for fun and enjoy it, how can that be bad or even hard? I have seen the same thing with the Roller Coaster and other "difficult" areas, some small group of people give it a bad rep that others embrace like they need to protect people by warning them. Exiting the Roller Coaster and seeing the warning sign I had to laugh at the whole idea of the sign.

[LazyLightning]

The fact that most thru hikers go through PA during the most hot and humid part of the year makes it seem that much worse. The heat/humidity was worse then the rocks for me and I remember thinking about the difference in perception it would be going through spring or fall with a nice cool breeze.

[Slo-go'en]

The fact that most thru hikers go through PA during the most hot and humid part of the year makes it seem that much worse. The heat/humidity was worse then the rocks for me and I remember thinking about the difference in perception it would be going through spring or fall with a nice cool breeze.

Having hiked PA in May/June and having hiked PA in April/May, the April/May trips have been much more pleasant, despite the rain. You know it's hot when the rocks sweat! Or when the NOWA weather forecast advises against strenuous outdoor activity and you got 20 miles to do. You had best start before dawn on a day like that.

[fiddlehead]

There are a lot of rocks on most all good hiking trails in the world.
So, I am thankful that I grew up near Port Clinton PA and was in a good boy scout troop that got us out on the trail at least once a year.
So, I was weaned on those rocks and now, when I'm hiking in far away places and there is a trail with lots of rocks. I feel right at home and enjoy rock hopping.
So, quit whining folks. Enjoy the rocks, because if you like hiking, you're going to find rocks most everywhere you go.
Just got back from NZ last week. Lots of rocks.
Last year, Kunglseden trail (Sweden) Lots of rocks.
Year before that Tasmania. Guess what? Rocks there too.

PA rocks: Not so bad in comparison.
Now Nepal? I think that's where rocks were invented.

[4eyedbuzzard]

It isn't like the PA rocks are actual obstacles compared to some of the bigger boulders, slabs, ledges, etc., further north. Rather, for me anyway, the worst of it is all those small ones in the middle of the trail that stick up just enough --- 4" - 8" like little pyramids or the flat ones set on edge. All just waiting to stub your toe, trip you or make you stumble or roll an ankle. And falling on one of those pointy SOB's could definitely do some damage to ribs, head, etc. :eek: Many of us also tend to let our "guard" down on flatter terrain. When you slip and fall down a slope, you tend to fall and slide rather than impact. On flat ground you fall and come to an abrupt stop - on something - and hopefully it isn't one of those pointy rocks. I think back to my worst falls skiing, and they were often on flatter terrain. Yeah, I may have been distracted by some "scenery" and not focused on the ski trail :o :D, which isn't as common a problem on the AT. It just takes some getting used to, and you often can't get a pace going and just motor along on cruise control, because you have to pay closer attention than normal to foot placement in many stretches. Every section of trail has something different to offer. In PA, it's the rocks.

[BobTheBuilder]

Good luck with your hike. I finished PA last spring. The thing about the rocks to me was that they slowed you down. If you are aiming for a shelter or campsite and suddenly you have to slow down to half speed for several miles, it can affect your plans. Hurrying is not a good idea. I took a spill on the rocks above Palmerton on a section and ended up getting off trail because of the gash in my knee.

If I was starting in HF in June, I think I would go south and see how far I got in three weeks. SNP was quite nice, as was a lot of Virginia.

[shelb]

Sorry... I did not read all posts. I hope my info is not repeated..

I sectioned PA in two parts after completing SNP and MD. I come from flat-land Michigan (well, we do have sand dunes, but those don't count).

I had had heard stories about PA's RX, and I was seriously fearful. Well, my friend and I (seriously overweight at the time but had put time in climbing steps to get in shape), thought the 1st half of PA was a walk in the park. Our milage was 12-24 a day (but realize, we were up at dawn and walking, sometimes, to dusk).

The following year, we went back. ***: Our @$$'s were kicked. (actually, our feet were!). The northern part has many more rocks, and those rocks appear to be spiked to poke into your feet to inflect pain. I cannot describe it! Plan on those rocks being like nails poking up into your shoes!

[Slo-go'en]

The following year, we went back. ***: Our @$$'s were kicked. (actually, our feet were!). The northern part has many more rocks, and those rocks appear to be spiked to poke into your feet to inflect pain. I cannot describe it! Plan on those rocks being like nails poking up into your shoes!
Hikers who insist on wearing wimpy trail runners suffer the most.

[George]

how bad you ask? there is an average of 10 hiker skeletons per mile littering the trail + it only takes mice about a year to chew the bones - draw your own conclusions

[Pony]

I don't understand the whole PA rocks thing. I don't remember it being that bad. I routinely turned out big mile days in PA.

[BAontheTrail]

The fact that most thru hikers go through PA during the most hot and humid part of the year makes it seem that much worse. The heat/humidity was worse then the rocks for me and I remember thinking about the difference in perception it would be going through spring or fall with a nice cool breeze.
hot/humid in PA ain't got nothing on hot/humid in Southern Louisiana for that time of the year. ****, I might be a little cold.


Good luck with your hike. I finished PA last spring. The thing about the rocks to me was that they slowed you down. If you are aiming for a shelter or campsite and suddenly you have to slow down to half speed for several miles, it can affect your plans. Hurrying is not a good idea. I took a spill on the rocks above Palmerton on a section and ended up getting off trail because of the gash in my knee.

If I was starting in HF in June, I think I would go south and see how far I got in three weeks. SNP was quite nice, as was a lot of Virginia.
So far, I've just purchased the ticket into HF, I might have to see what extraction points look like within ~300 miles south of HF.


Hikers who insist on wearing wimpy trail runners suffer the most.
Are wimpy trails runners different than trail runners? Or, are you insisting on wearing hiking boots?


how bad you ask? there is an average of 10 hiker skeletons per mile littering the trail + it only takes mice about a year to chew the bones - draw your own conclusions
Eek! I can't draw to save my life...

[AsoloBootsSuk]

... More than the rocks, hikers need to stay aware of the critters, rattlesnakes and copperheads that hide under them...
Agree, watch out too for civil war era ghosts and other spirits on South Mountain. There is bad juju in PA. Pass thru quickly and quietly and don't speak of what you've seen

[Randy Watson]

I really like Pennsylvania, I would be far more concerned with Lyme Disease in that area in June than rocks. Southern PA is great, easy walking with few rocks, I've been through twice and the rocks really start about 20 miles south of Port Clinton, and they go well into New Jersey. There are a few hairy areas but the only reason people complain about the rocks is because there is nothing else to complain about - easy walking, resupply everywhere, not a bad section in my view.

[LazyLightning]

It's funny how the saying with the rocks became "wait until you get to the Whites!"

[Jeff]

Most southbound thruhikers are puzzled about the "Rocksylvania" comments. They have seen far worse up north.

[PGH1NC]

About how long do rocks like these pictures last on the trail? Hiking on
these looks formidable but maybe a short amount would be doable.
Is it about what shows up in the photo or do they last going on and on and on? Many You-Tube reports show the hikers gliding along fairly fast in PA. May be doing the Duncannon area and north a bit soon.

[PGH1NC]

The northern 100 miles of trail in PA has LOTS of trail that looks like the pics below (taken near Wind Gap) - and where it isn't almost completely rock there are plenty just sticking up out of the ground in the middle of the trail waiting for your toes and ankles. Careful foot placement is a must.

46059

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46061
How long do these rocky areas last on the A T in PA? Do they involve essentially what shows in the photo of do they go on and on and on . . .? Various You-Tube presentations show the hiker gliding along fairly well while videoing PA. May be hiking in the Duncannon area and a bit north next week.

Also do members just use the carbide tip of hiking poles or use the rubber tips available while hiking on/in rocks?

[swjohnsey]

Rubber tips don't last long.

[peakbagger]

They go on and on in some areas and non existent in others. I remember the stretch from Duncannon to Swatera Gap being continuous rocks once you cross the river.

[Astro]

It is definitely doable, as several us have done it, and hundreds do it every year. But not necesarily enjoyable. But sort of like staying at the Doyle, everyone should do it at least once if not for anything else just to say you did. NH and ME rocks are worse as far as dificulty, while with PA is more the annoying ankle biters and what it does to your shoes. And of course it is more of a pain when raining. But when you are done with it you have earned the right to complain like the rest of us. :D

[Slo-go'en]

South of Duncannon is reasonably mellow, except for the decent into Duncannon. That's where the misery starts.

The climb out of Duncannon is pretty rocky and once you reach the top is really nasty for the next couple of miles. I have fond memories of being hit with a thunderstorm at the top of the climb which made the next few miles "interesting". Then you get to Peters mountain and find the water is 300+ rock steps straight down the side of the ridge for water.

After that it's kind of mixed. Some easy move right along sections and some careful where you put your feet sections. It's probably a 70/30 mix of good and bad.

[igost]

There are long rocky stretches between Delaware River and Susquehanna.
Gaps are the worst and they are numerous down there - Lehigh Gap, Wind Gap, Smith Gap, etc
Lehigh Gap north of the river is not only a climb on moving rocks - it's also an open space with no protection from the sun. I got fried there pretty bad. Views are nice though.

Attaching few photos I took between DWG and Little Gap

[igost]

Few more photos: Little Gap to Peters Mountain

[Deadeye]

I prefer walking on rocks... any rocks... to sitting at my desk.

Or as my Dad would say: Kwitcherbitchin

[PGH1NC]

Okay, today I got back from a hike on two of the PA ridges around Duncannon. The AWOL Guide states that Cove Mountain miles 1141 to 1147 are "very rocky." It doesn't seem to mention a rocky section (5 miles?) anywhere else in PA that I note in the guide. This is from a senior hiker. And I don't usually like rocks. The hike up (north bound) was typical AT. There was some nice Mountain Laurel and a lot of nice path and fast hiking. Sure, there were some rocks but not enough to put such a warning in the guide compared to the rocks I will probably just read about in northern PA. The climb down from Hawk Rock though was not fun. It does have large stone steps of sorts leading down from the view but the large steps along with other hikers carrying children from a large parking lot made that part a very interesting descent.

While my younger companions hiked up to Clarks Ferry Shelter I stayed in a hotel. (Age has its advantages). I met them the next morning at Rt. PA 225 trailhead and hiked to Rt. 325 trailhead. According to their observations of my hiking, I would not have been happy hiker hiking up to the shelter at the end of a hike. The first several miles of the ridge (Peters Mountain?) was pretty much fun. It was easy clear path for the most part. Where there were rocks I could pretty easily step over or on them, like playing hop-scotch, and moving fairly fast or so I think. In the "Kinter View" region (saw two rattle snakes there) The trail would go up and over the rocky ridge like picture 3 in post 92 (above). with fairly easy parts between. My companions were on the next ridge (to Rousch Gap)today and consider that ridge to be about the same as Peters Mountain ridge and guess not all that bad. Often pictures show just the "bad" parts.

The two ridges I just did, with nice weather and only daypacks really weren't that bad and a lot of fun. Do I plan to go farther north . . . probably not for now. I think I would have enjoyed their next section but ended up being 17.4 miles, a bit long for me if rocky.

[FlyPaper]

Just finished PA a few days ago. There are a few really bad stretches, but they are generally not long lasting. Avoid Lehigh Gap and Knife's Edge in the rain. Both sides of Port Clinton are rocky, but not horrible.

The biggest challenge in northern PA is scarcity of water sources.