Legality of using drinking alcohol for fuel on trail

[turtle fast]

I normally use 190 proof alcohol (Everclear, Volkov, or similar) for my alcohol stove. Although I find out a bit more expensive (I get it for $17 a liter), I feel that the multipurpose use warrants the costs. Apart from fuel, non-toxic nature, hand/wound sanitizing, and the potential for mixing it into a beverage (I wouldn’t drink it straight) seems to be a no brainer for me. Though not quite easily obtainable on the AT, I often wondered about the legality of carrying drinking alcohol in areas where the county is dry? Mind you normally people will not be carrying this in the original glass liter bottle and repackage it into a soda bottle or similar (accidental ingestion of a bit of it wither won’t really harm ya...unlike other alcohol alternatives). Something I just began to ponder....

[ant]

Dry counties and cities prohibit the SALE of alcohol, not the possession, nor, I believe, the ingestion. Also, I wouldn't let that dictate having it or not, it would be the poor performance as stove fuel.

[Slo-go'en]

The legality is fine. The practicality of it is questionable though.

[TNhiker]

it would be the poor performance as stove fuel.




just outta curiosity-----i'm guessing grain alcohol would perform better than, lets just say, a whiskey, correct?


as in, higher alcohol content would burn better?


i think that would be the case, but then again, i havent messed with any drinking alcohol in 20 years....

[4eyedbuzzard]

Well, ethanol (190+ proof Everclear) burns clean and has about a 10% higher heat output per ounce than methanol. But the price is usually around 5 times as much. Usually you can buy a single 12oz bottle of yellow HEET (methanol) for about $1.50 to $2.00 at the auto parts store, so about $3.00 to $4.00 for 750ml. Denatured alcohol (mostly ethanol) by the pint/quart is about the same price, and less by the gallon. But a 750ml bottle of Everclear will cost about $15.00 to $20.00 at many liquor stores ($17.00/liter is a really good price. You'll probably pay more at liquor stores along the AT). And if you need it on a Sunday there a still a lot of local blue laws that might make it impossible to get. Possession itself in a dry county likely isn't the exact problem - it's the local "open container in public place" type laws that could be an issue if an LEO wanted to be a/an ___________ about it. Pretty unlikely there would ever be a problem though.

[soilman]

Everclear is illegal to sell or purchase in Ohio as well as Maine, Maryland,Massachusetts, New Hampshire, North Carolina.

[Paleolith54]

Everclear is illegal to sell or purchase in Ohio as well as Maine, Maryland,Massachusetts, New Hampshire, North Carolina.

https://i.imgur.com/vT5KZRW.jpg

[Kaptainkriz]

Plenty of Everclear in MD...:D


Everclear is illegal to sell or purchase in Ohio as well as Maine, Maryland,Massachusetts, New Hampshire, North Carolina.

[Kaptainkriz]

Hmmm, I must be old...seems it's not any more. What fun is that?

Plenty of Everclear in MD...:D

[turtle fast]

The open container aspect did cross my mind. I kinda figured it was illegal to sell in a dry county, but I wasn’t sure if the alcohol brought into the jurisdiction had to be in its original container. Our bars here have the odd rule to retain hard liquor bottles until it can be accounted for and disposed of (stops refilling of empty bottles).

[Hatchet_1697]

Virginia has it, I use it in my alcohol stove because it burns hottest of all the other alcohol options. Using it with the Trail Designs Caldera Cone System brings water to a boil fast. Everclear comes in handy for cleaning wounds/scrapes too. My cousin once used some extra I had and lemon power bar shavings to make a trail worthy AT martini. I passed...


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[Traveler]

Hmm, this Makers Mark doesn't perform well in the stove. I wonder what I can do with this stuff now......

[devoidapop]

Alcoholic beverages are expressly forbidden in state parks in GA, NC, VA, MD, and PA. National Forests and Parks may or may not have restrictions depending on where you are. Then you have local restrictions as noted above. Seems like a lot to figure out for a product that performs marginally better and costs much more than other alcohol fuel options.

[Starchild]

I guess it's fine, it's pretty common to see someone break out a bottle at camp site, it's a pretty accepted thing to do as long as there is not a site specific prohibition. But one thing most learn on the AT is each state is different and each state is weird when it comes to alcohol laws.


Funny loophold for distilling, which is usually illegal for at home DIY. You can legally distill for fuel purposes, however you need to make it 'denatured' when your all said and done, usually be adding some methanol to the final product.



Everclear is illegal to sell or purchase in Ohio as well as Maine, Maryland,Massachusetts, New Hampshire, North Carolina.

Available in MA, so only one M state remains. In VT it is restricted but available. You have to special order it and state a reason for wanting it, such as cleaning sensitive equipment. Some states don't allow the 190 proof and it's something like 173 proof.

[Alligator]

Alcoholic beverages are expressly forbidden in state parks in GA, NC, VA, MD, and PA. National Forests and Parks may or may not have restrictions depending on where you are. Then you have local restrictions as noted above. Seems like a lot to figure out for a product that performs marginally better and costs much more than other alcohol fuel options.That's too broadly stated about the state parks. Some states allow alcohol in private areas and camping units. Also, the laws are sometimes stated as prohibiting consumption not possession, because if you can consume it on your camping unit you will have to carry it through the park. If you aren't drinking it while cooking your lunch and simply pouring it into your stove, I doubt in the highest any LEO would give you a second glance about it. Without the actual statue for each state hard to say exactly which ones it might be an issue. It would be helpful when making a specific claim to link to the statue or the .gov website for better interpretation.

[John B]

Alcoholic beverages are expressly forbidden in state parks in GA, NC, VA, MD, and PA. National Forests and Parks may or may not have restrictions depending on where you are. Then you have local restrictions as noted above. Seems like a lot to figure out for a product that performs marginally better and costs much more than other alcohol fuel options.

Seems like VA is cool with booze as long as you're drinking it in your cabin or "camping unit." Do you have information that says otherwise?

https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state-parks/rules-and-regulations

[chef4]

The big issue with denaturants is toxicity: methanol for example is harmful if absorbed or inhaled. As long as you are careful, the risk is low, but grain alcohol is safer since it lacks the added poison. Whether it’s worth the hassle including cost and potential minor legal issues ( for the amount needed for stoves) is the issue, as noted. If you buy a big bottle on the trail, though, what in the world do you do with the excess?

[TNhiker]

If you buy a big bottle on the trail, though, what in the world do you do with the excess?



wellllllllllllllll...........

in the smokys----leave it out in a bowl on the ground......


after all, the bears like to party as well......

[devoidapop]

Yes, my statement was too broad.

In Georgia consumption of alcohol or intoxicants is forbidden
https://gastateparks.org/ParkRules

In North Carolina possession or consumption are forbidden
https://www.ncparks.gov/park-rules

In Virginia state law permits alcohol use only in private areas (inside a cabin or camping unit) or in areas designated on permits issued by the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control
https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state-parks/rules-and-regulations

In Maryland alcohol may only be consumed in full service cabins
https://dnr.maryland.gov/publiclands/Pages/alcoholfaq.aspx

In Pennsylvania alcoholic beverages are not allowed in state parks
https://pennsylvaniastateparks.reserveamerica.com/camping/big-pocono-state-park/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=PA&parkId=880404

Now, that's a lot legality to navigate in order to carry grain alcohol for a stove. Just use stove fuel.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Real world? I seriously doubt a hiker is going to get arrested for possessing alcohol intended as and carried as stove fuel, and especially so if it isn't in the original bottle making it difficult to identify it as a beverage vs stove fuel. Now, if they are drinking it in a place where a LEO might see them, yeah, that might be a different story. But enforcement of alcohol laws in most parks is generally rather selective and usually reserved as a means to remove people who draw attention to themselves due to their behavior.

[RockDoc]

I buy Everclear by the half gallon in Montana. I forget what it costs, but it's not expensive. I use it with shellac flakes to make musical instrument varnish. Of course when I tell the seller that, they laugh and say "Sure, that's what everybody says". But really. I do not drink (over 25 years).

I think that it's a good idea for backpacking stoves because you will end up inhaling toxins from methanol if you use denatured alcohol. Such toxins have been implicated in some types of degenerative mental conditions, including Alzheimer's. Read End of Alzheimers by Dr Bredesen. You might start to be more careful with the toxins that surround us. It is one of the "insults of modern life".

[Alligator]

Yes, my statement was too broad.

In Georgia consumption of alcohol or intoxicants is forbidden
https://gastateparks.org/ParkRules

In North Carolina possession or consumption are forbidden
https://www.ncparks.gov/park-rules

In Virginia state law permits alcohol use only in private areas (inside a cabin or camping unit) or in areas designated on permits issued by the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control
https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state-parks/rules-and-regulations

In Maryland alcohol may only be consumed in full service cabins
https://dnr.maryland.gov/publiclands/Pages/alcoholfaq.aspx

In Pennsylvania alcoholic beverages are not allowed in state parks
https://pennsylvaniastateparks.reserveamerica.com/camping/big-pocono-state-park/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=PA&parkId=880404

Now, that's a lot legality to navigate in order to carry grain alcohol for a stove. Just use stove fuel.This thread was posted into the AT General subforum. How many miles of the AT go through the state parks listed? Does it go through any in NC? Other than PA, the other states refer to consumption.
On PA game lands, it is unlawful to
(9) Consume, possess or transport any alcohol, liquor, beer, malt or brewed alcoholic beverage.
http://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Display/pabull?file=/secure/pabulletin/data/vol32/32-9/345.html

[Skyline]

Seems like VA is cool with booze as long as you're drinking it in your cabin or "camping unit." Do you have information that says otherwise?

https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state-parks/rules-and-regulations

My tent is certainly a camping unit.

[John B]

This thread was posted into the AT General subforum. How many miles of the AT go through the state parks listed? Does it go through any in NC? Other than PA, the other states refer to consumption.
On PA game lands, it is unlawful to
http://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Display/pabull?file=/secure/pabulletin/data/vol32/32-9/345.html

Last night I was asking myself the very same question regarding where the AT crosses state parks. I'm not familiar with the northern half, but I can't think of any in the south. Even at Amicaloa, which is a rather small 900-acre park, it's my understanding that the AT trail head is outside of park boundaries.


In re the AT specifically, this link provides a concise overview of the acquisition of land and development of the AT by the National Park Service, and because of that, I would assume that the AT corridor is subject to administrative rules and regs developed by that agency.
https://www.nps.gov/appa/learn/management/upload/AT-report-web.pdf

And taking it one step further, I can't find a single rule or regulation that bans alcohol in national parks. When alcohol is mentioned, rules typically stay that drinking is to be confined to campsites, cabins, etc.
https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/lawsandpolicies.htm

All that said, this seems to be making a huge mountain out of an imaginary mole hill. If you want to use grain alcohol as a fuel, I can't see a single reason not to do so. If devoidapop can provide cites/links showing where and when a hiker was busted for carrying grain alcohol for fuel, I'd certainly like to read about it, and even if there has been a few instances, I would think they are highly anomalous.

I'll shut up after this -- when I first started hiking, I carried a Brasslite stove (which is almost an art object) and Everclear as a fuel because I didn't want to breath the toxic fumes and didn't want the toxic residue from Heet on my cookware. It performed just fine as a fuel, and another advantage is that if you spill or if it leaks in your pack, it will evaporate very quickly without a residue. The downside was that when cooking in daylight hours, the flame is almost invisible, so caution is in order. But because I'm lazy, I quit using my Brasslite alcohol stove and now use Snowpeak and compressed gas.

That's my .02

[Starchild]

My tent is certainly a camping unit.

With that line of reasoning a thru hikers pack is a camping unit.

[Traveler]

Interesting nit to pick, what defines a camping unit. Having some time on my hands, I took a walk through the regulator landscape in search of a definition. A "Camping Unit" is a legal definition with some State/local differences, but includes most of these tenets:

"A camping unit is an outdoor space in a camping facility or designated area used for the express purpose of camping and contains outdoor constructed features, parking spaces for RVs or other vehicles, prepared tent sites, pads, platforms, or camp shelters."

So from what I can see in various State regulations is a "Camping Unit" is more a place than gear related.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Interesting nit to pick, what defines a camping unit. Having some time on my hands, I took a walk through the regulator landscape in search of a definition. A "Camping Unit" is a legal definition with some State/local differences, but includes most of these tenets:

"A camping unit is an outdoor space in a camping facility or designated area used for the express purpose of camping and contains outdoor constructed features, parking spaces for RVs or other vehicles, prepared tent sites, pads, platforms, or camp shelters."

So from what I can see in various State regulations is a "Camping Unit" is more a place than gear related.An interesting issue. If dispersed camping is specifically allowed, as it is along much of the AT (and you are not stealth camping illegally), I think one has a reasonable argument towards it being a "camping unit" or other such regulatory wording. Add that court decisions have gone both ways regarding expectation of privacy/searches by LE as to whether tents pitched on public lands meet the 4th amendment criteria of "...persons, houses, papers, and effects". Lots of gray area here.

[Puddlefish]

Alcohol as a wound cleaner is bad. Google it, find a site that you trust. It's an old cowboy movie myth, don't do it.

[Skyline]

Interesting nit to pick, what defines a camping unit. Having some time on my hands, I took a walk through the regulator landscape in search of a definition. A "Camping Unit" is a legal definition with some State/local differences, but includes most of these tenets:

"A camping unit is an outdoor space in a camping facility or designated area used for the express purpose of camping and contains outdoor constructed features, parking spaces for RVs or other vehicles, prepared tent sites, pads, platforms, or camp shelters."

So from what I can see in various State regulations is a "Camping Unit" is more a place than gear related.

OK, but this definition does not explicitly exclude a tent, hammock, etc. as being a camping "unit." After all, these are two of the abodes that make camping in or at a tent pad, site, etc. possible. Certainly equal to an RV being considered a "camping unit."

[cmoulder]

Don't ask, don't tell.

Much ado about nothing if you can keep your mouth shut.

And you're going to end up with Heet anyway since it's readily available in the right amount for the job.

[Traveler]

OK, but this definition does not explicitly exclude a tent, hammock, etc. as being a camping "unit." After all, these are two of the abodes that make camping in or at a tent pad, site, etc. possible. Certainly equal to an RV being considered a "camping unit."
Good point, which in my view is covered by the elasticity of the regulatory language used in most of the regulations I saw, which allows campers and law enforcement flexibility either way. I would suggest tents/hammocks are included as a "camping unit" for a few reasons.

First, if they are not specifically proscribed they are (likely) allowed with the caveat using camping units for illegal purposes can eliminate the presumed exclusion. It would not be difficult to argue that the governing body makes very clear in their regulations (either associated with or apart from camping unit definitions) what is not allowed. Given the different camping styles/equipment (car camping, cowboy camping, tarps, tents, fly cover, hammocks, etc.) are not specifically listed as "allowed", the intent to allow these as inclusions can be drawn from the lack of specific prohibitive language used in other prohibitions.

Second and to the point 4EB makes, the language "designated area" used in most of the regulations I saw is interesting. In CT, only designated camping areas can be used so the language is very clear where one can camp. However, in areas where dispersed camping is allowed, the entire area by default is the "designated camping area" when an individual is using the area for the "express purpose of camping".

[turtle fast]

I wonder if anyone has used double twist shine to burn...170 proof plus.
It was funny once as my dad and I were talking to a ranger once in Kentucky and the ranger said he would come across still sites all the time. Once their was a still they found by accident that was only a few hundred yards away from the ranger station!!

[FromNH]

I use 97% alcohol. It’s great for cuts blisters, etc and cooking and fairly inexpensive.

[JNI64]

I use 80% crown royal alcohol. It's great for sipping around the camp fire, eases the pain of cuts,blisters, and helps with sleep! But is expensive!