View Full Version : Washington Post article about AT and Coronavirus
"Hikers are starting their annual trip north on the Appalachian Trail. Coronavirus could make it complicated"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/16/appalachian-trail-coronavirus-backpacking/
gpburdelljr
03-17-2020, 09:15
ATC published info on coronavirus.
http://appalachiantrail.org/home/community/blog/ATFootpath/2020/03/13/the-atc-s-covid-19-plan (http://appalachiantrail.org/home/community/blog/ATFootpath/2020/03/13/the-atc-s-covid-19-plan)
https://wildeast.appalachiantrail.org/explore/plan-and-prepare/hiking-basics/health/covid19/
Hatchet_1697
03-17-2020, 12:24
The concern with COVID-19 (aside from it being easy to catch) is its potential impact to health compromised older adults. I’d imagine the majority of young healthy hikers in top shape with excellent lung capacity would be in the majority of cases who experienced little or no symptoms.
I still would avoid sleeping in a full shelter though.
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chknfngrs
03-17-2020, 16:33
Shelters are horrid germ laden mouse doo sportin stankhiker hostin havens anyway, aren’t they?
Ever use a privy at a busy AT lean-to? Last time I did, the viruses were buzzing around on jet skis!
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The concern with COVID-19 (aside from it being easy to catch) is its potential impact to health compromised older adults. I’d imagine the majority of young healthy hikers in top shape with excellent lung capacity would be in the majority of cases who experienced little or no symptoms.
I still would avoid sleeping in a full shelter though.
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Maybe, maybe not, but the more important issue is that people who are infected can pass it to other people before they know they're carrying it. Anyone of any age can get sick at any level of severity.
Traillium
03-18-2020, 09:24
Isn’t the potential / real overloading of the healthcare system also a major issue? As well as the huge personal health care costs if you require treatment? As well, where we require care is important. Rural areas won’t likely be able to provide care beyond their local clientele. (Read what Mags is saying, for instance.)
Don’t we bear a strong civic responsibility to do our personal part to “flatten the curve”? I know it’s an old idea, but it’s worth repeating: Rights come with Responsibilities.
My hiking this year will be short off-major trails and using dispersed camping. I’ll not be hiking further than I can carry one load start-to-finish. (And I’m not Tipi …)
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My hiking this year will be short off-major trails and using dispersed camping. I’ll not be hiking further than I can carry one load start-to-finish. (And I’m not Tipi …)
Honestly that seems like the best approach IMO. You can still get out but avoid any areas of congregation, and don't rely on heading into the dollar general to resupply. Consider carrying a bit of extra food so you can do a longer push.
Isn’t the potential / real overloading of the healthcare system also a major issue?
yes it is......
china had to build additional hospitals just for this virus.....
Don’t we bear a strong civic responsibility to do our personal part to “flatten the curve”? I know it’s an old idea, but it’s worth repeating: Rights come with Responsibilities.
My hiking this year will be short off-major trails and using dispersed camping. I’ll not be hiking further than I can carry one load start-to-finish. (And I’m not Tipi …)
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I agree. I am too young to have experienced rationing and other sacrifices the general public went through during WW2 or the Great Depression. There was shared sacrifice. Is it too much to ask people to stay home and avoid crowds? Your hiking approach is the one I will adopt this year.
TexasBob
03-18-2020, 11:56
yes it is......
china had to build additional hospitals just for this virus.....
There is this item and talk of the Army setting up field hospitals where needed as well.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/488074-new-york-lawmakers-call-for-deployment-of-navy-hospital-ship-to-nyc-amid
Uncle Joe
03-18-2020, 21:29
Well France and Italy are starting to report cases of young people seriously ill.
There is this item and talk of the Army setting up field hospitals where needed as well.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/488074-new-york-lawmakers-call-for-deployment-of-navy-hospital-ship-to-nyc-amid
This is a great idea of utilizing all of our resources. The army corps of engineers will be setting up "mash" type hospitals as well . Stay healthy my friends!
Well France and Italy are starting to report cases of young people seriously ill.
Is this because they're so overwhelmed they can't take care of everybody or does this mean this virus is getting stronger? What a freaking mess! Stay healthy my friends!
Traveler
03-19-2020, 07:03
The concern with COVID-19 (aside from it being easy to catch) is its potential impact to health compromised older adults. I’d imagine the majority of young healthy hikers in top shape with excellent lung capacity would be in the majority of cases who experienced little or no symptoms.
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Early information suggested children and young people were being spared the worst of this, probably due to the decision not to conduct widespread testing in the early days of this pathogen's arrival in the US. However, latest information as of yesterday cites approximately 1/5 to 1/4 of 20 - 44 year olds who are infected are requiring hospitalization, 2% - 4% of those hospitalized require ICU care. Additionally, approximately 10% of infants infected are at severe/critical levels.
Apparently there is more to the virus than was originally thought, especially as it relates to individual biology and underlying conditions that may take longer for younger people to present. The "safety of youth" from this pathogen as touted by spring breakers in FL who are clustered together in large numbers and feeling particularly invincible appears to be incorrect and invincibility rather than rock solid is vapor.
I had planned my first longer hike this year, the LT. I trained all Winter, upgraded my gear, reduced weight both on gear and myself and I will wait until a cure is found. I simple cannot leave my family alone for three to four weeks in a time when our lives change almost every hour. This outbreak was and is very poorly handled but if nothing else, Mother Nature is getting a break from us humans. It’s almost as if she said “You can’t figure out how to limit pollution, let me give you a hand with that”.
Be Healthy!
Kudos to the hikers who are sacrificing for the sake of slowing the epidemic/pandemic.
Kudos to the hikers who are sacrificing for the sake of slowing the epidemic/pandemic. And thank you.
[Sorry for the duplicate post!]
chknfngrs
03-19-2020, 08:22
I must admit I do not know the feeling of cancelling a thru hike. Must be devastating, but also a great review of what you can do in the interim. Hopeful it’s not all summit fever and people make bad choices and whatnot (but i am sure folks will do what they want and ignore advisements and closings) always have and always will be those types!
Hard decision to pull the plug on any adventure, let alone a thru.
Traillium
03-19-2020, 08:51
Early information suggested children and young people were being spared the worst of this, probably due to the decision not to conduct widespread testing in the early days of this pathogen's arrival in the US. However, latest information as of yesterday cites approximately 1/5 to 1/4 of 20 - 44 year olds who are infected are requiring hospitalization, 2% - 4% of those hospitalized require ICU care. Additionally, approximately 10% of infants infected are at severe/critical levels.
Apparently there is more to the virus than was originally thought, especially as it relates to individual biology and underlying conditions that may take longer for younger people to present. The "safety of youth" from this pathogen as touted by spring breakers in FL who are clustered together in large numbers and feeling particularly invincible appears to be incorrect and invincibility rather than rock solid is vapor.
Evidence-based and well-said, Traveller!
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Traillium
03-19-2020, 09:07
I had planned my first longer hike this year, the LT. I trained all Winter, upgraded my gear, reduced weight both on gear and myself and I will wait until a cure is found. I simple cannot leave my family alone for three to four weeks in a time when our lives change almost every hour. This outbreak was and is very poorly handled but if nothing else, Mother Nature is getting a break from us humans. It’s almost as if she said “You can’t figure out how to limit pollution, let me give you a hand with that”.
Be Healthy!
I’m with you … metaphorically …
Our two daughters here in Ontario Canada have both been potentially exposed to the Covid-19 virus. One is seriously immune-compromised. The other is a teacher exposed to multiple classes every day.
The latter daughter is in quarantine at home because she is beginning to exhibit signs and symptoms of Covid-19. Mild so far. And under treatment at home.
Our diabetic daughter is working from home and is in self-imposed quarantine, waiting to see if she will begin exhibiting signs and symptoms. So far, after 6 days since her potential exposure, she’s OK.
We now have clear Covid-19 spread in the communities in Canada. In Ontario, our populist cut-services-to-save-taxes provincial government is finally taking the appropriate evidence-based actions — including tacitly admitting that they acted contrarily to our Provincial Health Officer and did not stock up on nearly enough testing kits. The Province is now scrambling to massively ramp up testing. But it means we’re still looking at five-day-old evidence to properly gauge the community spread of the virus. We’re playing catch up. (Sound familiar? … We’ve tested more people in this province than you have in your whole country, BTW.)
My hiking this year will be short, self-supported, and local.
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TexasBob
03-19-2020, 09:23
......Our diabetic daughter is working from home and is in self-imposed quarantine, waiting to see if she will begin exhibiting signs and symptoms. So far, after 6 days since her potential exposure, she’s OK........
I hope things turn out well for your family. Dr. Fauci said on TV that the average incubation time is 5.2 days so hopefully your daughter dodged the bullet.
chknfngrs
03-19-2020, 10:44
Thinking of you and your family!!
I’m with you … metaphorically …
Our two daughters here in Ontario Canada have both been potentially exposed to the Covid-19 virus. One is seriously immune-compromised. The other is a teacher exposed to multiple classes every day.
The latter daughter is in quarantine at home because she is beginning to exhibit signs and symptoms of Covid-19. Mild so far. And under treatment at home.
Our diabetic daughter is working from home and is in self-imposed quarantine, waiting to see if she will begin exhibiting signs and symptoms. So far, after 6 days since her potential exposure, she’s OK.
We now have clear Covid-19 spread in the communities in Canada. In Ontario, our populist cut-services-to-save-taxes provincial government is finally taking the appropriate evidence-based actions — including tacitly admitting that they acted contrarily to our Provincial Health Officer and did not stock up on nearly enough testing kits. The Province is now scrambling to massively ramp up testing. But it means we’re still looking at five-day-old evidence to properly gauge the community spread of the virus. We’re playing catch up. (Sound familiar? … We’ve tested more people in this province than you have in your whole country, BTW.)
My hiking this year will be short, self-supported, and local.
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I wish your family all the best, I am so sorry for what you are going through.
I’m coming up in two weeks since my possible exposure, luckily no signs yet.
I’m with you … metaphorically …
Our two daughters here in Ontario Canada have both been potentially exposed to the Covid-19 virus. One is seriously immune-compromised. The other is a teacher exposed to multiple classes every day.
The latter daughter is in quarantine at home because she is beginning to exhibit signs and symptoms of Covid-19. Mild so far. And under treatment at home.
Our diabetic daughter is working from home and is in self-imposed quarantine, waiting to see if she will begin exhibiting signs and symptoms. So far, after 6 days since her potential exposure, she’s OK.
We now have clear Covid-19 spread in the communities in Canada. In Ontario, our populist cut-services-to-save-taxes provincial government is finally taking the appropriate evidence-based actions — including tacitly admitting that they acted contrarily to our Provincial Health Officer and did not stock up on nearly enough testing kits. The Province is now scrambling to massively ramp up testing. But it means we’re still looking at five-day-old evidence to properly gauge the community spread of the virus. We’re playing catch up. (Sound familiar? … We’ve tested more people in this province than you have in your whole country, BTW.)
My hiking this year will be short, self-supported, and local.
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I'm so sorry to hear about this and hope everyone has the best possible outcome.
Trail Money
03-20-2020, 08:46
So is the general consensus here that short 2-3 day hikes are reasonable, but nothing longer than that? Stay out of shelters and avoid other groups of hikers?
BlackCloud
03-20-2020, 10:10
Hike for 5 months; just stay 6' from everyone and keep washing your hands and face.
So is the general consensus here that short 2-3 day hikes are reasonable, but nothing longer than that? Stay out of shelters and avoid other groups of hikers?
Right now is probably not a good time to go out. California just locked down and it is looking more likely everyday that many parts of the US will be locked down. In order for us to keep the spread of this virus to a minimum, we all have to do our parts. The trail will always be there.
Hike for 5 months; just stay 6' from everyone and keep washing your hands and face.
Please do some research before posting. Since this isn’t the first uneducated post of yours I’m replying to let me help you out a bit.
The droplets from a sneeze or cough can travel over 20 feet and linger in the air for up to 10 minutes.
Therefore if you pass someone who is infected and sneezed 2 minutes before you passed him at 6 feet, you’ll still be walking right through his infected snot.
Please read my other comment to you for more information. Keep in mind that even Hannity did a 180 on his COVID 19 stand. I hope you will too either before you get sick or worse get someone else sick.
Paleolith54
03-20-2020, 16:05
Please do some research before posting. Since this isn’t the first uneducated post of yours I’m replying to let me help you out a bit.
The droplets from a sneeze or cough can travel over 20 feet and linger in the air for up to 10 minutes.
Therefore if you pass someone who is infected and sneezed 2 minutes before you passed him at 6 feet, you’ll still be walking right through his infected snot.
Please read my other comment to you for more information. Keep in mind that even Hannity did a 180 on his COVID 19 stand. I hope you will too either before you get sick or worse get someone else sick.
Since you're making such a big deal about how well-educated you are on the subject, I looked around a while to see who else was saying what you are, specifically the parts about how long the virus can last in air and how far you need to be from other people. Basically, everyone I found who made the claims you made seemed to be low-brow clickbait sites that sounded like they were trying to report on something they had read but didn't actually understand. The notion that if I walk by a spot where someone sneezed a couple of minutes ago I am susceptible to any meaningful degree to catching the virus is a particularly good example of mis-stating findings. The excerpt below seems to me the most credible, and happens to be right in line with what I've heard medical experts say to us repeatedly.
"In a new study published March 18 in the New England Journal of Medicine, researchers found that SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes the COVID-19 illness) remained stable (meaning: contagious) in aerosols, like droplets from coughing, for three hours. It's worth pointing out, though, that the experiments performed in this study (which also looked at SARS-CoV-2 viability on plastic, copper, and more, in addition to aerosols) were done in a highly controlled laboratory setting. But the authors concluded: "Our results indicate that aerosol ... transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is plausible, since the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for hours."
Even if a mist of the novel coronavirus hangs around for hours where the person sprayed the droplets, it's still probable that the airborne particles are only reaching six feet from the point of origination, according to the latest information from the CDC. As the organization states, "airborne transmission from person-to-person over long distances is unlikely."
Dr. Bhuyan reiterates that message, saying you’re still most likely to catch it directly from an infected person when they cough or sneeze droplets containing viral particles, and those particles land on your face, body, or a nearby surface (where you could potentially pick them up and then touch your face, for example)—or you're close enough to breathe them in. And again, we’re talking pretty tight person-to-person contact. Remember, though: A person might not even know they have novel coronavirus because they're asymptomatic—and they can still transmit it via respiratory droplets. So your safest bet is staying six feet away from, well, pretty much everybody, as much as you can."
Hatchet_1697
03-22-2020, 06:53
Every day we are learning more about this thing. Take care of each other.
Looks like even in SNP social distancing is hard to do
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200322/f720709af18fcdd04dc9cced5d50c89b.jpg
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This is a wonderful graphic showing how the virus spread through the US. It got here in January, and somewhere around the second week of March its exponential growth becomes clear. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/21/us/coronavirus-us-cases-spread.html
Paleolith54
03-22-2020, 09:10
Every day we are learning more about this thing. Take care of each other.
Looks like even in SNP social distancing is hard to do
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200322/f720709af18fcdd04dc9cced5d50c89b.jpg
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I'd been planning a backcountry snowshoe trip to Rocky Mtn National Park but called it off (the only way to make it work around Covid responsibilities was to drive straight through and sleep and eat in the truck.) Good decision, as they closed the park because the horde of visitors overwhelmed the little gateway towns, at least on the east side, and they closed the park (the whole thing, not just buildings.)
Who would have thought a park would be closed as, basically, an "attractive nuisance."
BlackCloud
03-22-2020, 12:53
Every day we are learning more about this thing. Take care of each other.
Looks like even in SNP social distancing is hard to do
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200322/f720709af18fcdd04dc9cced5d50c89b.jpg
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This is the manifestation of critical thinking Americans who reject the hysteria. They realize the most dangerous thing about going to Shenandoah NP is still the drive to get there.
No matter how loudly they scream from the rooftops that end times are near, will not make it so. The math says so.
This is the manifestation of critical thinking Americans who reject the hysteria. They realize the most dangerous thing about going to Shenandoah NP is still the drive to get there.
No matter how loudly they scream from the rooftops that end times are near, will not make it so. The math says so.
Hysteria? So the CDC is trafficking in hysteria? I don' think so. As for the math part, that's kind of ironic because the math I'm seeing says this pandemic may cause a depression.
Paleolith54
03-22-2020, 13:43
This is the manifestation of critical thinking Americans who reject the hysteria. They realize the most dangerous thing about going to Shenandoah NP is still the drive to get there.
No matter how loudly they scream from the rooftops that end times are near, will not make it so. The math says so.
One of the trickiest things in life is figuring out who to ignore. People like you make it a lot easier.
BlackCloud
03-22-2020, 18:04
Dissent will not be tolerated!
watch 9 months and beyond from now the big Corona baby birth rate. They'll be known as the Corona babies. Hey what else to do when locked up for days? :)
Hatchet_1697
03-22-2020, 19:32
And entire generation named after a beer, nice!
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Time Zone
03-22-2020, 23:00
Dissent will not be tolerated!
Sure it will! Are you banned yet?
Intelligent dissent is especially helpful. It may help us think more critically. But just saying it's a scare or over-hyped, etc., that's pretty lazy dissent. In fact, it doesn't even rise to the level of dissent. It's just being contrary. I'm reminded of the argument sketch from Monty Python: An argument isn't merely contradiction.
Imagine: radar shows a severe storm is coming, and you're arguing that it's hysteria because not that many people (proportionately) have gotten wet yet. As if what is HAS done thus far is all that it's likely to do. I hope you're right, but if it fizzles, it'll be because of serious action we take soon, not because it's on a path to fizzle on its own.
TwoSpirits
03-23-2020, 04:16
watch 9 months and beyond from now the big Corona baby birth rate. They'll be known as the Corona babies. Hey what else to do when locked up for days? :)Coronials.
Hatchet_1697
03-23-2020, 09:58
Coronials.
Nice one!
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Seatbelt
03-23-2020, 10:44
watch 9 months and beyond from now the big Corona baby birth rate. They'll be known as the Corona babies. Hey what else to do when locked up for days? :)
I'm trying to figure out how this can happen when we are staying 6 feet apart?? You mean I can still kiss the wife?
Alligator
03-23-2020, 10:50
I think we will be funneling discussion on this to here (https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/136383-quot-The-Ethics-of-Thru-Hiking-During-the-COVID-19-Pandemic-quot).