View Full Version : AMC using wildlife cameras for trail survey.
Mr.Woodward43
06-26-2020, 08:26
I found a wildlife camera at the Shaker campsite in Massachlusetts. I don't like it. How do others feel?
It had a note saying AMC will destroy the images after use.
Majortrauma
06-26-2020, 08:35
We lose our privacy when we enter the www and use cellphones. Privacy is non-existent. A trail cam should be the least of your worries.
Five Tango
06-26-2020, 08:46
There is no privacy anymore.Your every move is being tracked.And "they" are listening to your conversations as well............
Traffic Jam
06-26-2020, 09:19
It upsets me. Of course there isn’t privacy anymore but when I’m in the woods going to the bathroom and changing clothes, I expect to feel as if no one is watching. Knowing there are trail cameras steals my feeling of “safety”. I’ve found several random trail cams and recently experienced a drone in a National Forest and it pisses me off. I had some (non-destructive) fun with those cams but wish I had my slingshot for the drone.
Time Zone
06-26-2020, 10:21
We lose our privacy when we enter the www and use cellphones. Privacy is non-existent. A trail cam should be the least of your worries.
Do you shut the door of a bathroom stall toilet when you use it? Do you have curtains/blinds on the windows of your house?
Do you wear clothing when it's warm enough outside not to? If so, why? Just to comply with public nudity laws, or, perhaps also for a sense of privacy?
IMO the presence / location of trail cameras - in public places where hikers are likely to have to relieve their bladders or bowels - ought to be disclosed, or alternatively, places out of view of them ought to be.
Traveler
06-26-2020, 12:26
There have been bear issues around that area. The camera is probably used to monitor bear activity, tracking a particular problem bear and determine if it has a routine visitation schedule to various places. I have seen cameras used to monitor bears and when vandals have forced camera use. Given the camera was in plain view, located on a public use right of way, properly labeled by the owner (in this instance the local AMC Chapter), and a included a note, I really don't see the issue.
I would agree cameras should not be near privies, though I have never seen one in use around them..
I believe the one at Shaker campsite in MA which the OP brought up is there for tracking the bear problem. So in this case it is a good thing, improving our safety and security. As with any technology wildlife cameras are value neutral and can be used for good or bad, it all of up to the humans.
Starchild
06-26-2020, 14:22
As someone pointed out above, I've known them to be used to monitor bears in and around shelter sites in the Smokies, it might be for that or as the OP suspects trying to gage hiker traffic (in the Smokies it's pretty much known due to the permit system.
Majortrauma
06-26-2020, 14:32
Do you shut the door of a bathroom stall toilet when you use it? Do you have curtains/blinds on the windows of your house?
Do you wear clothing when it's warm enough outside not to? If so, why? Just to comply with public nudity laws, or, perhaps also for a sense of privacy?
IMO the presence / location of trail cameras - in public places where hikers are likely to have to relieve their bladders or bowels - ought to be disclosed, or alternatively, places out of view of them ought to be.
Yes I do actually because I have a reasonably high expectation that someone will walk in on me and it is the decent thing to do. Yes, I do wear clothes in public out of decency and I don't want to be labeled as a sex offender which would surely happen.
When one hikes/backpacks one accepts a certain level of risk of unintentionally exposing oneself when someone comes strolling around the bend in the trail. It's something we just deal with. Simple fix: change clothes in your tent and conduct bio breaks far enough away where one can't be seen.
As far as letting people know a camera is in the vicinity, now you just set yourself up to have the camera stolen or damaged by some jackwagon who has nothing better to do than destroy someone else's property. They're usually located in such as manner that it would take some effort to do so but some people just can't resist the challenge.
Trail cams are a fantastic wildlife management tool and we should be encouraging their use.
I have no problem with it. After all don't they voluntarily maintain the trails and campsites?
Traffic Jam
06-26-2020, 15:30
Cameras should not be placed in areas where people camp.
Time Zone
06-26-2020, 17:50
When one hikes/backpacks one accepts a certain level of risk of unintentionally exposing oneself when someone comes strolling around the bend in the trail. It's something we just deal with. Simple fix: change clothes in your tent and conduct bio breaks far enough away where one can't be seen.
As far as letting people know a camera is in the vicinity, now you just set yourself up to have the camera stolen or damaged by some jackwagon who has nothing better to do than destroy someone else's property. They're usually located in such as manner that it would take some effort to do so but some people just can't resist the challenge.
This is a contradiction. You recommend to conduct bio breaks far enough away where one can't be seen, then you go on to give reasons why locations of trail cameras should not be disclosed. But without such disclosure, a person cannot know where they cannot be seen.
Five Tango
06-26-2020, 20:23
Well,one thing you can do is carry a small tarp.Actually,mine is a dyneema ground tarp that doubles as a "bio break tarp for rainy days".The tarp,stuff sack,pegs,and all lines weigh in at 6.5 oz.No,it does not have doors but if you find two big trees reasonably close together they can help block the view.
Traffic Jam
06-26-2020, 21:35
I feel like people don’t grasp the ideal of being out in nature. It’s about being liberated from societal constraints.
Having the freedom to bathe or change your clothes while outside the tent and not having to lay on your back, hiding and wriggling around, trying to put your pants on is amazing! It’s about feeling SAFE and being confident in your body...being able to poop or pee outside, knowing that if another hiker walks by, they will respect you. Nakedness is a normal part of hiking and staying in shelters, but that’s because other hikers are respectful and are having the same experience.
Now, put a camera in a shelter or campsite and the outdoor experience is ruined. It’s as if I’m back at home and my neighbors are watching. It’s no longer safe to change my clothes outside, even if I’m utterly alone. I have to hide and be afraid of who might be watching.
TJ aka Teej
06-26-2020, 23:44
AMC, ATC, and BSP, all have used electronic trail monitoring for many years.
AMC, ATC, and BSP, all have used electronic trail monitoring for many years.
Thanks for chiming in. And I reckon for multiple reasons like the ones that have been mentioned bear monitoring, wild life, fires, etc.. if one needs to defacat, urinate, skinny bath, then one needs to be far enough from the trail as not to be seen. PERIOD!!
Time Zone
06-27-2020, 07:49
Thanks for chiming in. And I reckon for multiple reasons like the ones that have been mentioned bear monitoring, wild life, fires, etc.. if one needs to defacat, urinate, skinny bath, then one needs to be far enough from the trail as not to be seen. PERIOD!!
You seem to imply that trail cameras are only ever placed along the footpath of trails themselves. Is that true?
Traffic Jam
06-27-2020, 08:20
Thanks for chiming in. And I reckon for multiple reasons like the ones that have been mentioned bear monitoring, wild life, fires, etc.. if one needs to defacat, urinate, skinny bath, then one needs to be far enough from the trail as not to be seen. PERIOD!!
..........
You seem to imply that trail cameras are only ever placed along the footpath of trails themselves. Is that true?
No i suppose they could be anywhere along said boundaries.
Well,one thing you can do is carry a small tarp.Actually,mine is a dyneema ground tarp that doubles as a "bio break tarp for rainy days".The tarp,stuff sack,pegs,and all lines weigh in at 6.5 oz.No,it does not have doors but if you find two big trees reasonably close together they can help block the view.
And I suppose if it's that big of a concern then do this.
peakbagger
06-27-2020, 10:13
Trail cams are readily available. I am far less worried about the AMC than a private individual. There are sorts of sick folks who get off on weird things.
Trail cams are readily available. I am far less worried about the AMC than a private individual. There are sorts of sick folks who get off on weird things.
Now that truly would be a huge concern! Crap that's something that I never thought of. Thanks for the insight and giving us something else to be concerned about. :( ( but it is our reality)
Traffic Jam
06-27-2020, 11:20
Now that truly would be a huge concern! Crap that's something that I never thought of. Thanks for the insight and giving us something else to be concerned about. :( ( but it is our reality)
Or someone stealing the SD card, or the cam itself...