View Full Version : Electronics
bronco96#
07-01-2020, 23:23
Can we talk about electronics on the trail?
I'm sure I'll be seen as an old curmudgeon, and maybe I am, by my God, I can't believe the level of electronics that are on the Trail these days. Is this really acceptable? Today I saw a vlog with someone who had a GPS transmitter strapped to the top of his pack constantly transmitting his coordinates to his family, then, when he stopped for lunch, he pressed a button to let them know he'd be stationary for awhile. When he started up again, he'd press it again to let them know he was walking again.
And this is supposed to be an adventure??
I've been reading "Painted Blazes" by Loner 2012. He writes (pg 59) about Earl Shaffer's notes from his first thru-hike:
"...Long before today's technology of GoPros and YouTube, smartphones and Trail Journals, hikers documented their adventures with paper and pencil, 35 mm cameras (without a screen to preview pics) and film that might not be developed for 6 months to even see if the pictures came out!"
That last part described my hike, which was perfectly adequate. We didn't have cell phones to call ahead for rides. We managed. If someone today came into a shelter with a GoPro, I'd ask them to leave and leave the rest of us alone and unfilmed.
Very sadly, Loner '12, almost 40 years old, does not know what he missed.
I can't see how electronics embellishes anyone's hike. It seems a poor substitute for a wilderness experience. Worse, all these videos seem the same. People are hiking along, holding their camera out to film them, yammering on about nothing interesting except their friends Pappy and Josie and Yosemite Sam, and wasn't that last spring really something. Only three miles to the next shelter, if their feet hold out.
Aren't there those who resent electronics out there, who truly want to get away from the world? Do they not have a say. Loner '12 seemed very shy, but even he was guilty.
I hiked in 1996, and was good friends with Download & Nexmo. Download kept a kind of text journal that he uploaded at trail towns, about the first of its kind, but it was never intrusive on the trail and no hiker ever knew he was he was doing it unless they asked about his name:
http://users.fred.net/kathy//at/oldkushman.html
Why is the outdoor experience being compromised so easily?
David/Bronco
(NJ->MA '94; GA->MA '96)
in to say---"hike your own hike".....
and did Loner pass away?
bronco96#
07-01-2020, 23:56
"hike your own hike" is invalidated if those around you are filming and phoning and who knows what with their electronics apparatus. Isn't it supposed to be somewhat of a wilderness experience, or just recess during lunchtime away from home?
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 00:12
Why would you think Loner '12 passed away? He was only in his late '30s when he hiked....
Curmudgeon huh had to look it up. Pronounced cur- mudg- eon, a bad -tempered person, especially an old one :mad: . I personally am on the fence on this one. On one hand I can see where electronics can be beneficial on trail as in navigation or recording a trip for the future. But on the other hand like all other electronics it's out of control. Ones wilderness experience should be ones wilderness experience ,(as long as there not recording others without their permission of course). Aka hike your own hike.
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 00:24
JN: You don't get it. You cannot have a "wilderness experience" when people are filming and recording all around you.
I can't believe this topic hasn't come up on this forum already. I can't believe the ATC hasn't made some kind of regulations about this already. Do people want to have a wilderness experience or not? If they do, how can phones and video recorders be any part of that? What's next -- catering at shelters? helicoptered in, or packed in by horse or mule? massage tables at the shelters for those who can afford them?
what's the difference?
You want a regulation? That’s ridiculous.
People are on the trail for all kinds of reasons, they can have whatever “wilderness experience” they want, so long as it doesn’t impinge on yours. Hike faster to get some distance between you, or slower.
You sound like you’d make a great priest...the sort of person most people hike to get away from.
Like I said I'm kinda on the fence with this. You say you cannot have a " wilderness experience " when people are filming around you, well everyone knows the AT is a social trail for the most part lots of people lots of vlogging, blogging, YouTube ing . So we know this going out on the AT. And what you can't believe the ATC hasn't made regulations for what? Filming and recording really we do live in America. if someone wants a true "wilderness experience " they don't go to the AT.
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 00:56
Hank - filming and recording around shelters DOES infringe on others wilderness experience.
According to you, others can play the bongo drums and set off fireworks and if I don't like it I'm supposed to just pick up and leave the shelter and hike a little bit faster.
Meanwhile you don't give the slightest bit of consideration to what is being lost, only to what impacts your trail party and selfish needs while you're out there. Anyone else be damned.
Yeah, I've met a few people like you. Always obnoxious.
Oh my a bit curmudgeon indeed, you started off with " can we talk electronics " ? Well let's talk not insult.
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 01:04
JN: Yes, sadly, you're right. The AT is no longer a wilderness experience. It's an safe, e-logged, Internet experience, vlogged every step, every mile, let mommy and daddy know where you are every foot of the way, don't dare do anything novel or unexpected, just do the same hike as all the hundred vids you watched before, stay at all the same campsites and buy food at all the same stores and don't deviate in any way whatsoever. Then you will make it in the 4 months, 3 weeks and 4 days you planned. What fun. Play video games on your days off at the hostels, and play them some more when you're done and off the trail. Yippee.
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 01:07
JN: I don't respect people who think a wilderness experience involves electronics.
In fact, I feel very sorry for them, and for what they are screwing up for others.
As an intergenerational person who's lived in a world without copious electronics, and in a world with them, I am entitled to make such a judgement.
Yep now you get it.............. in the words of Metallica" sad but true "!! And with that good night folks. Bronco96# pleasure piece my friend
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 01:20
Metallica???? No wonder you don't get the trail experience.
You're so closed minded!! I'm now gonna self moderate before I get kicked off. Piece,anyway you can get it, because I'm not closed minded or like you.
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 01:29
JN, it's spelled "Peace," not "Piece."
(Yes, spelling counts. This is the real world.)
Whatever spelling doesn't mean crabs, yes I said crabs. You don't live in the real world. Now go away troll.
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 01:52
Spelling counts in the real world, and those who can't spell don't look very smart.
Why would you think Loner '12 passed away? He was only in his late '30s when he hiked....
because of this line---
"Very sadly, Loner '12, almost 40 years old, does not know what he missed."
Curmudgeon huh had to look it up. Pronounced cur- mudg- eon, a bad -tempered person, especially an old one :mad: .
the job i just left----we had a designated office called the "curmudgeon office"...
two of the most bitter people in the newsroom were put into this office and then it got the name........
and yeah, they weren't exactly pleased by it....
I can't believe this topic hasn't come up on this forum already.
it has...
many times........
probably about once a year or so.....
but, since you are only 10 posts into this board-----guessing you didnt bother to check out the forums to see about
said issue.......
and at the end of the day it always comes back to "hike your own hike"............
because of this line---
"Very sadly, Loner '12, almost 40 years old, does not know what he missed."
Exactly what I was thinking .
JN: Yes, sadly, you're right. The AT is no longer a wilderness experience. It's an safe, e-logged, Internet experience, vlogged every step, every mile, let mommy and daddy know where you are every foot of the way, don't dare do anything novel or unexpected, just do the same hike as all the hundred vids you watched before, stay at all the same campsites and buy food at all the same stores and don't deviate in any way whatsoever. Then you will make it in the 4 months, 3 weeks and 4 days you planned. What fun. Play video games on your days off at the hostels, and play them some more when you're done and off the trail. Yippee.
did someone force you to hike the AT or did you not realize there was other long distance trails in the states?
Metallica???? No wonder you don't get the trail experience.
what does someone's music preferences have to do with hiking?
oh, never mind, just answered it myself------absolutely f-ing nothing.....
Exactly what I was thinking .
when someone writes---"very sadly" followed by "does not know what he missed"---typically means
something happened to the person they are mentioning.....
Spelling counts in the real world, and those who can't spell don't look very smart. Just the opposite.
it kinda sounds like you are just bitter at the world in general....
maybe you should take a hike......
might help you out a bit........
just sayin'....
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 02:21
TN - Oh. No. I meant that I don't think Loner '12 knew what his hike could have been like if he'd hiked without electronics, and if he'd been in an electronics-free environment.
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 02:23
TN - I'm far from bitter.
In fact, I'm seeing things more clearly than ever.
I'm seeing what's important. Wilderness is important. Silence is important. Solitude is important.
And today's hikers get none of it. They treat the trail like it's Disneyland.
Why??
the job i just left----we had a designated office called the "curmudgeon office"...
two of the most bitter people in the newsroom were put into this office and then it got the name........
and yeah, they weren't exactly pleased by it....
Lol... sooo.. funny...
And today's hikers get none of it. They treat the trail like it's Disneyland.
Why??
because they chose to hike their own hike.....
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 02:35
If a hiker is filming and recording they are inevitably intruding on other hikers, at shelters, crossings, hostels, etc.
What right do they have to do that?
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 02:37
And don't try to tell me that nothing is lost when thru-hikers are recording every meter of the trail and broadcasting it to YouTube.
Is that the hike you want, safe and simple, all pre-recorded for your safety? Is that what you think the AT experience should be about?
because they chose to hike their own hike.....
Kinda like Disneyland in a way only happens once in a lifetime. So why not document it?
If a hiker is filming and recording they are inevitably intruding on other hikers, at shelters, crossings, hostels, etc.
What right do they have to do that?
again you have the right to tell them not to film you
And don't try to tell me that nothing is lost when thru-hikers are recording every meter of the trail and broadcasting it to YouTube.
Is that the hike you want, safe and simple, all pre-recorded for your safety? Is that what you think the AT experience should be about?
They want? You want? ......
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 02:53
JN, that really says it all - you think Disneyland is a worthwhile experience.
That's as stark as it gets.
If a hiker is filming and recording they are inevitably intruding on other hikers, at shelters, crossings, hostels, etc.
What right do they have to do that?
if it's in a public spot, which generally the AT is since it's considered Park land-----there's no law that i know of that can stop them...
a private place like a hostel-----that's a different story since it's private land...
i just got outta working in the tv news business as a news photographer and i knew that if i was in an area
that is considered public, then there was nothing that anyone could do, besides politely asking me, to stop it...
and depending upon what the story was, who was asking, and other circumstances----that would determine my course of action....
oh, and i shot video that would air on a newscast....
for example----if a house is on fire, and i showed up on scene----if i stayed on street, nobody could stop me....
if i wanted to get closer and go on the house's yard----if the homeowner was around, i would ask them if it was alright for me
to get on the land and shoot video....
or, if i wanted to get in neighbors yard and they were outside watching fire, i would politely ask them if it was alright for me
to go on their land.....
most people never cared....
as far as law enforcement------we fought (in a legal way) many times, and it's usually with officers that have just joined the force and are new, over this
issue many times...........some officers would try to take our tape from our cameras......and at that point, i would say they need a
search warrant, or have them bring their supervisor over to discuss it....
or make a quick call to my boss who would call the agency's PIO and tell them what was going on...
it often did not end well for the officer that would try to take tape.....
that being said-----i couldn't randomly go into a building---other than public buildings (like a court house or city hall) and start shooting video...
if we needed to go into a target, a walmart or the mall for example for a story----we would call the management and ask for permission...
target was usually the easiest as they knew that any publicity was good publicity.....
a mall was generally easy to get into as well.........just depended upon their management....
federal buildings were a different story though---could never take a camera in and they were strict about where we could set up...
if if was a sidewalk out front----they couldnt stop us.....but once we got off the sidewalk and onto courthouse property (steps for example)---
that was off limits.........
and the rent a security person would throw a fit at us about it...
and keep in mind----all but maybe the last 5 years of my 20+plus years doing this----i was lugging a full sized
professional camera.....
so it was very obvious what i was doing...
unlike the last few years when people can go in to those places (not fed buildings though) and use
their phones to record video....
it's kinda the same way with access....
as in, law enforcement couldn't excluded the media and make specifically us, shoot from a particular spot...
wherever the general public was allowed to go-----that's where i expected to be allowed to go...
for example-----let's say there's a shooting on a street and i show up to cover it...
and while the scene might have tape (ya know---the yeller crime scene tape) around it----
i knew that i could shot anywhere outside of that tape....
now lets say an officer comes up to me and says i have to stand in on particular spot (outside of tape) and
that was the only place i could be yet members of the general public were walking all around (outside of tape)---
then i would fully expect to be allowed to go where they were going.....
same thing as above-----if an officer said no----i would ask for a supervisor to be brought over and ask
why i was not allowed to be where the general public was....
again----most times, since i was in the right and the supervisor knew it, the officer that said no would get a chat from
supervisor about this issue and how they couldnt stop the press....
being in the business in one city for so long---there were alot of officers that i knew, maybe just by face only,
and they knew me and what i was doing, and it wasnt an issue..........
they knew we had a job to do and they would respect it.....
to sum it up-----
generally public property----could shot wherever i wanted....
private property, in general----had to ask permission to shot....
this all applies for members of the general public (like hikers) taking video...
hope this helps....
Is that what you think the AT experience should be about?
the AT experience is different for everyone (especially since thousands and thousands of people hike various parts of it every year).....
hence, hike your own hike....
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 03:13
If you think it's all about a law, you don't understand the first think about a backwoods experience.
I think the current generation is so ruined, so corrupted, so unable to imagine a world without their machines, that they can't imagine being offline for even a few minutes.
It's useless. They've ruined the AT. It's time to move elsewhere -- to the PCT and the CDT. Leave the AT to those who need babysitting.
If you think it's all about a law, you don't understand the first think about a backwoods experience.
didn't you say "Yes, spelling counts. This is the real world."?
If you think it's all about a law, you don't understand the first think about a backwoods experience.
interesting.....
i explained that yeah, using law worked in shooting video in public spaces and yet you want a regulation
to stop it on the AT....
by that reasoning----you also don't understand the first thing (i spelled it right) about a backwoods experience....
bronco96#
07-02-2020, 03:28
I have no idea what your point is, except that it's clear again you have no clue what it's about.
Do you take weekend hikes with video games and squirt guns and cell phones and consider it happy when you make it back with all batteries still pumpin juice?
For what it is worth, I don’t vlog, blog, YouTube or take a lot of pics. Use my phone to touch base with
the office and wife few times a day, check weather and Guthooks.
I don’t do drugs either, besides an occasional cocktail. But I’m in favor of full legalization. It’s a free country.
It’s your sanctimony that I object to. I pity you and suggest you do the same for the people you run into with an unhealthy (perhaps) attachment to their gadgets.
I wish you peace of mind, but not luck in this impulse to prescribe to others.
Time Zone
07-02-2020, 06:38
cur·mud·geon\, ker-’mej-en n [origin unknown] 1 archaic: a crusty, ill-tempered, churlish old man 2 modern: anyone who hates hypocrisy and pretense and has the temerity to say so; anyone with the habit of pointing out unpleasant facts in an engaging and humorous manner
- I think this is from Jon Winokur's The Portable Curmudgeon. I particularly like the modern definition. Anyone remember George Carlin?
Bronco96#, after reading your first post I really expected to fully sympathize with you, since I don't even hike with a phone. I've been on group hikes where we'd get to some great rocky overlook and instead of taking in the view, or chatting with their companions about the hike, people had their noses in their phones, and it just felt like a big letdown. But it didn't ruin my hike - I enjoyed the effort, the view, etc. The letdown was that we didn't enjoy those things together, as the others were largely paying more attention to their phones than their hiking companion or the views. But who am I to say what they should like to do at the top of a hill or mountain?
However, you're coming across as really bitter and wanting to control how others experience the trail. It's one thing if they're filming you, or playing music loud, etc. But to the extent texting, listening to music through earbuds, checking electronic maps or GPS, taking photos, etc., only involve the person doing them, it's nobody's business but theirs. Look in another direction if it bothers you that much, but you can't live others' lives for them, nor should you try. The effort is guaranteed to be futile, which will just lead to more frustration. Instead, try leading by example and enjoy your low-tech hikes. Maybe some people will take notice and reconsider what they thought were needs.
Traveler
07-02-2020, 06:40
Seasonal troll
Electronics have not ruined the AT that you experienced in 1996. I hiked ME-VA in 1976 with pen, paper, and a 110 camera. I could not afford a 35 mm. I thru hiked NOBO in 2010. I carried a digital camera and flip phone. These were two distinctly different hikes. Not because of electronics. Although in 2010 very few people carried smart phones or battery banks. In my opinion the loss of a "wilderness experience" is the result of the sheer number of hikers today versus 40 years ago. I have nothing against hikers using electronics except when they intrude. I remember stopping at the Overmountain shelter when two or three hikers came bushwacking down the mountain with their music blasting. I don't own a smart phone. I don't understand the addiction people have to their phones. I get a kick out of how hikers search out every outlet they can find to recharge their gizmos.
Traffic Jam
07-02-2020, 07:43
JN: You don't get it. You cannot have a "wilderness experience" when people are filming and recording all around you.
I can't believe this topic hasn't come up on this forum already. I can't believe the ATC hasn't made some kind of regulations about this already. Do people want to have a wilderness experience or not? If they do, how can phones and video recorders be any part of that? What's next -- catering at shelters?
Trail cameras at shelters and campsites.
Slo-go'en
07-02-2020, 08:51
If you want a "wilderness experience" you don't hike the AT. You go to an actual wilderness. But what exactly is a "wilderness experience" anyway?
The smart phone is one of the handiest pieces of hiking equipment ever invented. It replaces all manor of things you might otherwise carry, all in one small convenient package. I can take photos to document where I've been. I can take videos if I want. It tells me exactly where I am and how far I need to go. I can read books, listen to music (the sound of wind and my feet stomping the trail gets kind of boring after a while). I can get the latest weather forecast and look at the radar which helps keep me safe. I can arrange for transportation. Finally, if I really need to, I can call for help.
Time Zone
07-02-2020, 09:51
The smart phone is one of the handiest pieces of hiking equipment ever invented. It replaces all manor of things you might otherwise carry, all in one small convenient package. I can take photos to document where I've been. I can take videos if I want. It tells me exactly where I am and how far I need to go. I can read books, listen to music (the sound of wind and my feet stomping the trail gets kind of boring after a while). I can get the latest weather forecast and look at the radar which helps keep me safe. I can arrange for transportation. Finally, if I really need to, I can call for help.
That's all true. It is perhaps the most multi-use item a hiker will ever have. One word of caution, though - the other side of the coin is that it's a single point of failure item. Have you ever slipped and fallen? I have, and one time it resulted in a broken P&S camera. Ever had an electronic item die without warning? Run out of battery unexpectedly? Get wet and short out? I have. Had those been a smartphone on which I depended for so much, I'd be SOL. Consider how many eggs you want to put in one basket, or what backup plans you may want to have should something happen to the phone. For me, paper maps are thin, light, and never need recharging.
or what backup plans you may want to have should something happen to the phone. For me, paper maps are thin, light, and never need recharging.
but the same could be said about paper maps------what if a paper map falls outta the pack? what if the paper map gets completely soaked
after a ford? what if a paper map was never updated? what if a paper map wasnt correct?
it's just shifting variables......
and again, it's up to the individual hiker to chose which they want-----hike your own hike....
It's a personal choice. I carry a smartphone, deep inside my pack, almost exclusively for the phone call at the end of the hike that says "I'm on the way home." I'm way past worrying about what somebody does with theirs - if they want to film or photo, or talk to someone, that's fine. We can probably draw a line at loud music, use your earbuds for that. I prefer paper maps and guides, if you like yours on a blue screen, I don't care.
And if I'm hiking a triple crown trail, I'm not expecting a wilderness experience. Is any trail a wilderness experience compared to going off trail? The AT has been very social for years, the PCT has become that way for much of the way (just check out pics of the crowds on traditional start days or early campsites). If you're really that upset about folks using electronics, I think it's up to you to find a place with less folks.
If you're really that upset about folks using electronics, I think it's up to you to find a place with less folks.
i tried asking OP if they were forced to hike the AT or didn't realize that there were other long distance trails in the states,
but all i got was a weak attempt at an insult instead of answers........
Why stop at eliminating electronics on the trail to achieve a "wilderness experience?" Why not eliminate all shelters, privies, picnic tables, bridges, signs, and blazes?
What would Earl Shaffer or Grandma Gatewood think about those hikers in 1996 using all that new fangled technology? Nylon internal frame packs, down sleeping bags, leather boots with Vibram soles, well marked and maintained trail, staying at hostels, using shuttles to get to town or the trail, unexpected trail magic of cold drinks and food - where is the wilderness experience? The point is the thru hiker experience is different for different people or different times. Today's hikers are having a completely different experience than someone 10, 20, or 72 years ago because of changes in technology, the trail, and the world.
Puddlefish
07-02-2020, 12:21
People throw out perspective when they post on the internet. Using one's electronic device on the internet to complain about electronic devices being used in nature. But, I want to use the power of the internet to communicate to as many people as possible, without the bother of talking to them in person, out in the wilderness. I want to take planes, and buses and cars, using GPS, listening to the radio on my way to the trail. I want to buy my equipment online, sourced from around the globe, delivered through a vast consumer network. But THIS! THIS is where I draw the line. Well, we all draw the line at slightly different places, that's what living in a society is about.
What really annoys you about the behavior, not about the electronics, but about the behavior? Taking pictures? Was it alright when people pulled out an old Brownie camera, how about the instamatic with those super bright flash bulbs, the Polaroid instant developing cameras, was that where it went wrong? Is a phone camera really different from any of these?
Music, videos, is that the kind of noise you've been running into? People blasting them at full volume, or are they wearing earbuds. Any different from someone playing a style of music that you maybe don't like with a guitar/ukulele/banjo around the campfire? Podcasts, how about private conversations and groups of hikers talking amongst themselves about a topic that interests them, is that also a problem?
What is it that you really don't like? Is it that people aren't paying attention to you personally? That you've walked into a shared area on the trail, and that not enough people stopped what they were doing and greeted you properly? I hate to jump to conclusions, but that's generally what I get out of these electronics complaints threads. It's not so much that people are creating noise and light issues, it's that they ignoring you, when you feel like being social.
I'm suggesting that this is simply the way of life when people share space. No one owes you personal interaction at any given moment. It's not a current generational thing, it's not about electronics, curmudgeons have been whining since the dawn of recorded history about kids these days. Know what's changed on the trails? A lot lot more people are using them, including me, and including you. You can enjoy the chance encounters with the people you meet, who are in the mood to chat with you, and you can smile and give space to the people who aren't interested in talking with you at the moment. Or, you can follow the grand tradition of complaining about kids these days.
https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
It’s your sanctimony that I object to
i particularly liked the part where OP put someone down for having a spelling mistake----
then has a spelling mistake a few posts later.....
While hiking in my local park this morning I had the opportunity to face time my son and his family while they were at Baxter Peak. I know Grandma Gatewood couldn't do that, but I think it was kinda awesome.
OhioHiker
07-03-2020, 06:50
Wow, a lot of great points in here... I am of the mindset that I love my iPhone on and off trail. It has made me and my life much more efficient.
On trail its my GPS, map, camera (pretty darn good one at that), communicator(when cell service is available), pedometer to check milage.
I relay more on the paper map, either printed pre trip or picked up at park office. I keep that in the fanny pack for easy access. I would say 80% of the time it works great. Sometimes if there is a trail reroute, or a hard to navigate sign it is nice to be able to see a gps location of you ovelayed on a digital map. Same goes for tracking milage via Apple Watch, If there is a road walk for say, 2 miles, its easy to see exactly how far I've walked and that i should start looking around for a trail cut in.
I should mention I usually on go for 2-4 day adventures. Any longer I would ditch the smart watch and leave the phone in airplane mode. I only carry a 10,000mAh bank. I think thats good for 3 (6 Day+/-) recharges on the phone. I wouldn't want to waste the energy on the watch.
I guess it bothers me when people are obnoxious with there electronics. Blasting music from a speaker on trail, loudly making phone calls at camp, watching netflix at night in their tent loudly.
Slo-go'en
07-03-2020, 09:16
For the last 6 months or so I've been doing weekly day hikes with a younger woman. (is 45 young? A lot younger then me!) We do White mountain hikes, mostly 4,000 footers and the 52WAV list. Most of the routes are in the ALLTRAILS data base and she downloads the route to her phone. The phone starts beeping when you go astray. Nice feature. It has saved us a couple of times when we accidently missed a turn and started going off route. .
We're also guilty of playing loud music. Sorry. Okay, not really loud, just moderately loud. Not much louder then talking.
Typically the music comes on during the decent when we're getting tired and need to put a little spring back into our step. Plus we've run out of things to talk about. I've taken to hanging a little Bluetooth amplified speaker off the back of my day pack. (Which actually sounds amazingly good. If your gonna play music, it should at least be of good quality). She broadcasts the music and if we start to get too far apart, the speaker starts to cut in and out. So I know to slow down and let her catch up. We hike on Mondays so there are typically few others on the trails we hike. If we do see someone, we mute the music although no doubt they heard us coming. We'll never see a bear or other critters too, but that's okay.
For the last 6 months or so I've been doing weekly day hikes with a younger woman. (is 45 young? A lot younger then me!) We do White mountain hikes, mostly 4,000 footers and the 52WAV list. Most of the routes are in the ALLTRAILS data base and she downloads the route to her phone. The phone starts beeping when you go astray. Nice feature. It has saved us a couple of times when we accidently missed a turn and started going off route. .
We're also guilty of playing loud music. Sorry. Okay, not really loud, just moderately loud. Not much louder then talking.
Typically the music comes on during the decent when we're getting tired and need to put a little spring back into our step. Plus we've run out of things to talk about. I've taken to hanging a little Bluetooth amplified speaker off the back of my day pack. (Which actually sounds amazingly good. If your gonna play music, it should at least be of good quality). She broadcasts the music and if we start to get too far apart, the speaker starts to cut in and out. So I know to slow down and let her catch up. We hike on Mondays so there are typically few others on the trails we hike. If we do see someone, we mute the music although no doubt they heard us coming. We'll never see a bear or other critters too, but that's okay.
That's awesome! I like it!
gpburdelljr
07-03-2020, 10:05
The OP has made 17 posts, All on this thread. I smell a troll.
The OP has made 17 posts, All on this thread. I smell a troll.
I thought the other night when the thread was started that OP had 10 posts......
I made a mention of it in one of my posts after OP asked if this subject had been discussed before...
And I said---pretty much every year it has....
The OP has made 17 posts, All on this thread. I smell a troll.
I asked the troll to go away my 6th post in responding @ 1:41am oh well all good in the woods, I don't sleep so it gave me something to do. Been kinda quiet on here lately , and it's relative to my interests.
Hopefully he didn’t crawl under the new bridge, like the one one in Three Billy Goats Gruff!
Hopefully he didn’t crawl under the new bridge, like the one one in Three Billy Goats Gruff!
I just looked that story up, loved the way it ended. Watch out for that last Billy goat troll !
bronco96#
07-06-2020, 21:33
TNhiker: Now you're resorting with personal insults because you have no intellectual arguments to make about this topic.
PS: Anyone who graduated from high school should know what the word "curmudgeon" means.
bronco96#
07-06-2020, 21:36
Is there a limit to how many posts the OP can make?
If so, why?
I did, after all, start this discussion, because I had many thoughts on it.
Now it seems all of you are anxious to insult me personally instead of making an on-topic reply.
If you can't stick to the topic, don't post anything at all.
bronco96#
07-06-2020, 21:40
Bitter? You've misunderstood.
Books I've read of recent thru-hikers write about phones in shelters playing music and making phone calls.
Is this "hike your own hike," bothering others with the noise you create? Aren't the woods supposed to be somewhat of a backcountry experience, a different realm where hikers can escape the real world? Are others supposed to just shut up and take the racket until the noise maker finally decides to go to sleep?
bronco96#
07-06-2020, 21:43
TNhiker wrote:
"did someone force you to hike the AT or did you not realize there was other long distance trails in the states?"
Is the AT now meant to be an amusement park, because that's what you want?
bronco96#
07-06-2020, 21:56
My second problem with videologs, etc is that, if you want to hike the trail, why watch them instead of being surprised when you come across the wonderful trail features in the wild? And more than that, why are hikers video-recording their hike? To get famous? To have people send you food and money (ahem, Loner '12)? These hikers need an Internet connection like junkies need a fix. Are you really cutting your ties with the real world, sinking, for at least the time you have, into nature and what there is to learn there, instead of worrying about what's you're going to record today, this hour, right this very instant? Don't you want to know what it's like to detach from the always connected world?
How much video of the Grayson Highlands do future hikers want to see before they hike it? Do you want to be able to recognize every 100 meters of it? Shouldn't the fat man cave be a little surprise? All the wild ponies? How many shots of the Lemon Squeezer must you view until it's ruined, or drilled in to your memory? Mahoosuc Notch? Southern balds? PA rocks? PA fields? The many and varied bridges -- who doesn't love a footbridge? Why do you want to have seen each one before you discover it?
These are some more of the things I'm grappling with.
TNhiker: Now you're resorting with personal insults because you have no intellectual arguments to make about this topic.
PS: Anyone who graduated from high school should know what the word "curmudgeon" means.
huh?
unlike you, i never threw down an insult in this thread.....
and i know what that word means-----did you not see my post about an office at my former place of employment?
TNhiker wrote:
"did someone force you to hike the AT or did you not realize there was other long distance trails in the states?"
Is the AT now meant to be an amusement park, because that's what you want?
did i say that i wanted the AT to become an amusement park?
i was referring to the fact that if you don't like what is going down on the AT----there are plenty of other
long distance trails in the states that have way fewer people hiking them....
Bitter? You've misunderstood.
Books I've read of recent thru-hikers write about phones in shelters playing music and making phone calls.
Is this "hike your own hike," bothering others with the noise you create? Aren't the woods supposed to be somewhat of a backcountry experience, a different realm where hikers can escape the real world? Are others supposed to just shut up and take the racket until the noise maker finally decides to go to sleep?
Books you’ve read? Which ones? My daughters and I did a Harpers Ferry to Bear Mtn LASH last summer, and were in midst of the bubble. We didn’t have an issue, on trail or in camp. Sundown, everyone was asleep.
My guess is you’ve never hiked the AT, and you probably don’t live in Keizer or even the US.
What a grumpystiltskins
bronco96#
07-06-2020, 23:02
Hank -- you're another one who relies on personal attacks instead of discussing the issues.
1) pretty sure I've hiked more of the AT than you.
2) certain you're wrong about where I live
3) why the F would it matter to you?
Stick to the issues instead of taking it to the personal.
Stick to the issues instead of taking it to the personal.
you should heed your own advice....
bronco96#
07-06-2020, 23:18
>> you should heed your own advice.... <<
I am. But not without defending myself and pointing out to all of you that you're way out of bounds.
Clearly this is a sensitive topic.
Seasonal troll
Yep,yep!! Move along.......
lonehiker
07-06-2020, 23:43
If I were looking for a wilderness experience I wouldn't be hiking the AT and I definitely wouldn't be hanging out at a shelter regardless of the electronics. Unless you are in an area/state that encourages, or requires, you to stay at a shelter there are almost always decent spots just past the shelter that allow you to have much more seclusion.
bronco96#
07-06-2020, 23:48
loneh: So you think it's OK that hikers play music in shelters? That they have phone calls at all hours? That even in inclement weather you're the one who's supposed to move out and sleep in the rain instead of them?
Are there any ethics left on the AT? Any sense of responsibility? Any sense of 'do onto others as you would have others do onto you?'
That even in inclement weather you're the one who's supposed to move out and sleep in the rain instead of them?
this is your choice--- not them forcing you to do it.......
bronco96#
07-07-2020, 00:11
You honestly do not have a problem with coming into a shelter after a 15-mile, rainy day, 8 pm, only to find someone playing a phone with rap music singing "******" this and "******" that?
You honestly do not have a problem with coming into a shelter after a 15-mile, rainy day, 8 pm, only to find someone playing a phone with rap music singing "******" this and "******" that?
did you ask them to turn it off?
bronco96#
07-07-2020, 00:32
And when they refuse?
Whey later they're making a phone call?
They're "hiking their own hike," right?
Why do you hike, anyway?
Spelling counts in the real world, and those who can't spell don't look very smart.
post 18----you said this......
Whey later they're making a phone call?
again.....heed your own advice......
And when they refuse?
did you ask them to turn it down?
bronco96#
07-07-2020, 00:40
soilman wrote:
"What would Earl Shaffer or Grandma Gatewood think about those hikers in 1996 using all that new fangled technology? Nylon internal frame packs, down sleeping bags, leather boots with Vibram soles, well marked and maintained trail, staying at hostels, using shuttles to get to town or the trail, unexpected trail magic of cold drinks and food - where is the wilderness experience?"
I actually met up with Earl Shaffer in 1998 and hiked with him for a few miles for an article I was writing. He partook in most of what you listed, including shuttles.
None of these are on the order of radio speakers, videocameras, trail phones, GPS units and the like.
If you need a phone constantly on the AT, maybe the trail is a bit much for you and you'd feel safer on a rail-trail or bike-path or driving on an interstate.
JN: I don't respect people who think a wilderness experience involves electronics.
In fact, I feel very sorry for them, and for what they are screwing up for others.
As an intergenerational person who's lived in a world without copious electronics, and in a world with them, I am entitled to make such a judgement.
bro: No one cares what you respect and don't respect. No one cares who you feel sorry for. And you are very self entitled and very judgmental.
post 18----you said this......
again.....heed your own advice......
Whey??????
lonehiker
07-07-2020, 01:00
If you want a wilderness experience why are you at the shelters? You contradict yourself.
You contradict yourself.
that's the theme of this thread with the OP.....
Nothing but the sound of crickets......... ( urgh y'all just don't get it).
KnightErrant
07-07-2020, 01:47
This topic gets discussed here about once a year. Here are a couple of previous iterations:
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/132800-Too-Much-Technology-on-the-Trail
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/133798-Overthinking-it-there-comes-a-time-to-just-quot-be-quot
I expressed my thoughts in both of those old threads, but the only thing I'll add to this conversation is that I thru-hiked the AT in 2018 starting NOBO in mid-April, so more or less the busiest time of year, and I only witnessed people vlogging on maybe 3 or 4 occasions. I only found myself in a situation with other hikers at a shelter behaving rudely 2 or 3 times (I also tended to avoid sleeping in shelters because I prefer the peace and privacy of a tent... almost as if it's possible to consciously shape your experience on the AT to tailor it to how you most enjoy backpacking without also condemning all the people who do it differently as "wrong"). I literally never witnessed a phone call at a shelter that wasn't a very brief inquiry about the availability or hours of a business in an upcoming town, and that even that was only 3 or 4 times, always in the daytime, never when someone was trying to sleep.
In summary, if you hike on the AT looking for ways to be annoyed with people, I'm sure you can find them. But with a tiny amount of mindful decision-making and appreciation for the fact that my idea of enjoying nature isn't the best or only way, I found many, many ways to enjoy the AT and relatively few reasons to be annoyed.
bronco96#
07-07-2020, 02:31
JNI64 wrote:
"No one cares what you respect and don't respect."
And isn't that exactly the problem?
No one cares what anyone else thinks anymore, so, as a proper modern American citizen, they all just go along doing whatever the hell they want, who gives a *****, it's your problem not mine. Don't like my music? Then move the hell along up the trail, bitch!
You made the point quite succinctly. Couldn't have said it better myself.
bronco96#
07-07-2020, 02:32
JNI64 wrote:
"Nothing but the sound of crickets......... ( urgh y'all just don't get it)."
Huh?
bronco96#
07-07-2020, 02:38
KnightErrant: Sounds like you knew you had to avoid shelters or you'd suffer their consequences. Starting in mid-April is one thing. Try starting in early March, when there is still lots of snow and storms.
Why should shelters be left to the phone addicts and music abusers? Why shouldn't *they* be the ones who have to go out in the rain and wind and snow, out of ear range, if they insist on inflicting noise on others?
How does "hike your own hike" mean you get to inflict your music and screens on me?
Why does just one person get to decide the aural environment for everyone who's in a shelter?
Why does just one person get to decide the aural environment for everyone who's in a shelter?
did you ask them to turn it off?
bronco96#
07-07-2020, 03:30
I have not ventured back onto the AT in the age of machines, and am not sure I want to. Most of what I know from this is from "Loner '12's" book "Painted Blazes," which, given that it was 8 years ago, the electronics situations is probably worse now.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0741SFHYK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
I have not ventured back onto the AT in the age of machines, and am not sure I want to. Most of what I know from this is from "Loner '12's" book "Painted Blazes," which, given that it was 8 years ago, the electronics situations is probably worse now.
so you have no first hand knowledge of the situation is on the trail in regards to electronics?
you are just basing the info of what you have read in one book?
then why you on here bitchin about something you dont know about?
...pointing out to all of you that you're way out of bounds.
All of us are out of bounds. Only you, the most high Bronco96 are in bounds.
You started the conversation.
You got replies which essentially boil down to 1) Its a free country and 2) The sorts of activity that would be objectionable don't happen in most people's experience
You just admitted you haven't been back on the AT in the "age of electronics"
I will try to not reply further to your inanity, and just chuckle. Best of luck finding a hermit cave.
KnightErrant
07-07-2020, 09:28
KnightErrant: Sounds like you knew you had to avoid shelters or you'd suffer their consequences. Starting in mid-April is one thing. Try starting in early March, when there is still lots of snow and storms.
Why should shelters be left to the phone addicts and music abusers? Why shouldn't *they* be the ones who have to go out in the rain and wind and snow, out of ear range, if they insist on inflicting noise on others?
How does "hike your own hike" mean you get to inflict your music and screens on me?
Why does just one person get to decide the aural environment for everyone who's in a shelter?
Did you read any of the threads I included?
If so, I'm repeating myself, but I agree that loud noise affects the experience of others, so I find loud voices and music distruptive, but those are hardly unique to phone users and I find it difficult to believe that people never spoke loudly in AT shelters in previous decades. As for other people "inflicting their screens on you," unless they're deliberately attempting to engage you with the screen ("Hey look at this weather forecast and my Instagram post, Bronco! Look at it!!") I think being annoyed at just *seeing* someone using a phone is about as rational as being annoyed at seeing someone reading a book, looking at a map, or writing in a journal-- three ways in which many hikers use their phones.
Demonize the behavior that actually disrupts your experience all you want, but don't demonize technology for being different from "back in your day." Every generation thinks the youth are going to be ruined by new-fangled devices, but the world keeps turning nonetheless. If more people are backpacking and enjoying nature (and thus advocating for the protection and expansion of public land and trails) because technology has made it more accessible and safe, I consider that a good thing.
As for my avoiding shelters-- I often slept at the shelter sites, so I spent plenty of time around them (my bigger reason for.not actually sleeping *in* them is a dislike of mice) and again, did not witness many of the behaviors you're lamenting.
As for my April start, I agree that falls under a bit of mindful planning-- I didn't want to be packed like sardines in a shelter with a bunch of smelly dudes with norovirus while a blizzard raged outside, so voila-- I chose a start date that meant doing so was never necessary. Easy. Anyway, if we want a "true" wilderness experience, like you seem to, why would we sleep in the shelters anyway? A shelter is not electronic, but it still represents human technology, and it sounds like you want to avoid that as much as possible ;)
TexasBob
07-07-2020, 09:44
I have not ventured back onto the AT in the age of machines......................
Machine age -1850 to 1945. You have been off trail a long long time. You should get out more.
soilman wrote:
"What would Earl Shaffer or Grandma Gatewood think about those hikers in 1996 using all that new fangled technology? Nylon internal frame packs, down sleeping bags, leather boots with Vibram soles, well marked and maintained trail, staying at hostels, using shuttles to get to town or the trail, unexpected trail magic of cold drinks and food - where is the wilderness experience?"
I actually met up with Earl Shaffer in 1998 and hiked with him for a few miles for an article I was writing. He partook in most of what you listed, including shuttles.
That is my point. I am sure that Earl upgraded his gear for his 1965 hike using the latest technology. And he did again on his 1998 hike. The trail and trail experience is dynamic. The trail you hike today will not be the same trail next year due to continuous improvements and relocations. Your hiking experience will also be different. Nostalgia is fine but you can't go home again. If you go back on the trail don't expect it to be like 1996.
I feel that you have difficulty reconciling the fact that many hikers on the AT today are using modern technology that, in my opinion, eliminates some of the adventure.
"WHAT, we have here is a FAILURE , to communicate some men you just can't reach, which is the way he wants it, well he gets it ".
Alligator
07-07-2020, 15:31
Sorry I wasn't looking at the post count, this has gotten a little out of hand. Just a reminder that WB has a user agreement (https://whiteblaze.net/forum/agreement.php) that I encourage all members to read and be aware of. It includes the following
2. Offensive posting is not allowed. That includes use of illegal substances, racism, sexism, or posts that ridicule, belittle, taunt, mock, or assault the character of other members. Our policy does not protect people that choose to verbally assault other members that may disagree with them. In essence members can disagree but should remain respectful of the person they disagree with.
and also
15. If a user believes a violation of WhiteBlaze Rules has occurred, they should advise a Moderator or Administrator by a Private Message (“PM”) with a link, if possible, to the post in question. If it is a post you want to refer to them please click on the report post icon in the post in question.
Stay in bounds folks. Thanks!
"WHAT, we have here is a FAILURE , to communicate some men you just can't reach, which is the way he wants it, well he gets it ".
Classic.
To the OP: I have a book shelf full of books on backpacking. Many, perhaps 15, are trail accounts from the AT. Everything from Earl's first thru-hike, to hikes that occurred just recently. I can't recall any of them pointing out, pro or con, high usage of electronics on the AT. I used to spend my lunch break reading Trail Journals, can't remember but a few where people posted "someone using their cell phone too close to the shelter". I'm saying it DOES happen. And the account you reference, I've not come across. But each of us needs to decide to let it not bother us.
If you want true wilderness, there are lots of places. In 2016 I was hiking for a few days with a 2-time AT Thru hiker. He and I were on a trail in west central Arkansas. That trail is blazed, has signs. No shelters. There were people about but since there is zero cell reception, most just had their phone to take photos. I had my IPOD, but with ear buds. My buddy laughed when after two days of peppering him with questions, I got quiet for a time. I was listening to music in one ear. We finished that trail and went a few miles away to hike 2 more trails. Those are in a designated "Wilderness" area. Meaning, only hand tools are used on the trail. No engines. No pack animals. And NO blazes. We actually lost the trail on a ridge top (and he'd hiked it before). Only a few rock cairn's were around. We saw NO people at all except very near the trail heads. There were places where we had to work together to stay near the trail. Someone had gone in and painted blazes (against the rules for Wilderness areas). The trail maintainers had gone in and sanded off or scraped down the blazes, then matched the tree bark with paint to even hide the "human" evidence. Both hikes were just great. If you really want that true Wilderness experience, there are ton's of little used trails, trails in designated Wilderness areas, western trails with sparse usage.
Hopefully he didn’t crawl under the new bridge, like the one one in Three Billy Goats Gruff!
Enter the third goat.
Slo-go'en
07-07-2020, 17:02
I listened to a guy near a shelter talking on his phone for a good half hour. He was trying to explain to his wife how to set the timer on their VCR so she could record something other. It was actually kind of amusing. After a while it was like "give it up man, she's never gonna get it".
Hiking the AT back in the late 80's was an adventure. Southern Appalachia was much more of a third world experience then it is today.
I can't recall any of them pointing out, pro or con, high usage of electronics on the AT.
OP, by his own definition, hasnt been on the AT since the "machine age"........
without first hand knowledge, the argument is pretty mute.......
JN: You don't get it. You cannot have a "wilderness experience" when people are filming and recording all around you.
I can't believe this topic hasn't come up on this forum already. I can't believe the ATC hasn't made some kind of regulations about this already. Do people want to have a wilderness experience or not? If they do, how can phones and video recorders be any part of that? What's next -- catering at shelters? helicoptered in, or packed in by horse or mule? massage tables at the shelters for those who can afford them?
what's the difference?
Actually massage tables at the shelters , great idea. ( just saying)
Traveler
07-08-2020, 06:33
Enter the third goat.
Wasn't that a Bruce Lee film?
A remake of...... starring the Alligator as Bruce Lee.
I've seen the question of electronics come up every few years. It isn't a new debate, but it's become a larger part of peoples hikes for many, and more intrusive for others, as smartphones became more common after 2009. Having the expectation that no one is going to have them isn't realistic. But at the same time, we should be able to expect to not have them used in a manner that disturbs the peace and quiet for others.
I have always carried camera gear, even when it was just film based, and still do. Taking photos and video has often been a part of the backpacking experience, it's just there are more cameras then there use to due to every phone having one and the numbers of people hiking named trails like the AT may be greater than it use to be so the numbers have naturally increased that way as well. I do think people should ask if it's okay to film or take photos of others in places where people gather like shelters.
Issue with phones in the last decade is you get more service in the boonies then you use to and phone battery life is much better so they are on more often and used in many more places than they use to. In 2009, my phone was rarely on outside of town as it served little use in the backcountry. That isn't the case anymore. On the PCT, I do remember being rudely awaken in the early morning in a small campground near town (in a trail angels camp) by another older thru-hiker (who should have known better), who was in their tent using their phone on speaker mode so we all got to hear both sides of the conversation. None of us were amused. I think hikers can have the expectation that someone on their phone should keep their conversations quiet and move away from others when using their phone so we don't have to listen to it. No reason someone can't use their phone in a way that won't disturb others. The problem is so many don't care or even consider others, else there wouldn't be much of an issue with this.
Carrying a GPS enabled device doesn't really change much, other than the argument that people are more and more lacking in basic navigation skills, and what happens when your device dies. I've personally dropped my phone in a deep pool on a trail to it's destruction before. When one looks at how many people are finishing the CDT today without any more understanding of navigation then when they started thanks to things like the Guthook app is a bit disturbing. But it doesn't really intrude on others, unless they suddenly need to ask you for navigation assistance since they don't have a backup method and broke their phone/gps or their battery died.
Music or podcasts in the backcountry. If someone wants to listen to something other than nature while hiking or in camp, that is their business. But when they don't use headphones and play it so everyone else around them can hear it, that is crossing a huge line. Please use headphones as that is what they were invented for. Not everyone has the same taste in music and for some, it could just sound like noise similar to scratching on a chalkboard. This seems to be a growing problem that I see more and more on various trails and I can't tell you how annoying some of us find it. I don't care if you are hiking in a group, I'm not part of that group and shouldn't be subject to it. I think this is the most relevant complaint in the whole debate as every other disturbance by electronics is minor in comparison. And if I ever support a ban on electronics, it would be over this issue. Oh, and if you are using headphones like you should, make sure you can still hear a rattlesnake when you hike by it. I once watched a person hike 2 feet from one and never heard it rattling loudly due to how loud their music was. I could faintly hear their music from several feet away despite their use of headphones. I can only imagine the long term issues with hearing loss if that was their habit.
For many, it's not the electronics themselves that are the issue, but rather the individual's choice in how they are using them that gets under most peoples skin. If people were more considerate of others in putting even a small amount of effort to avoid bothering others, I don't think the issue would come up as often as it does.
Traveler
07-09-2020, 06:54
For many, it's not the electronics themselves that are the issue, but rather the individual's choice in how they are using them that gets under most peoples skin. If people were more considerate of others in putting even a small amount of effort to avoid bothering others, I don't think the issue would come up as often as it does.
Miner brings up what I feel is the real point. It's not the electronics, it's people's behavior with them that is the friction point. Mannered people will typically move away from others for cell phone conversations or when the phone is generating noise. Some need a gentle reminder of their disturbance which cures ignorance. Stupid, unfortunately, is forever.
Miner hits the nail on the head.
I would vote for the speaker phone conversation as top annoyance over music on speaker, but to each their own. Although at camp I guess they'd be tied.
[Mannered people will typically move away from others for cell phone conversations or when the phone is generating noise. Some need a gentle reminder of their disturbance which cures ignorance.]
I questioned OP if they ask the user to turn down the music----but I was met
with the answer of not being on the AT since the "machine age"....
Traveler
07-10-2020, 06:55
I questioned OP if they ask the user to turn down the music----but I was met with the answer of not being on the AT since the "machine age"....
I cannot imagine the difficulty transitioning from maps etched on sheepskin to man-made fabrics, never mind the culture shock of leaving beasts of burden to the sheer terror of automobiles passing at high rates of speed.
I cannot imagine the difficulty transitioning from maps etched on sheepskin to man-made fabrics, never mind the culture shock of leaving beasts of burden to the sheer terror of automobiles passing at high rates of speed.
and bushwacking through the mountains as the trail, i'm guessing, wasn't as easy as it is today to file...
I recently left wb for 5 months because of crazy hostile attack-laced threads like this one. I think I will leave for another 5 months, and I'm probably not the only one...
I recently left wb for 5 months because of crazy hostile attack-laced threads like this one. I think I will leave for another 5 months, and I'm probably not the only one...
This is a shame I've read your posts and I think you have alot more to offer than the occasional troll. I've only been here a couple of years and only happens every once in awhile. I'm learning how to moderate myself im getting better. But anyways they get dealt with or ignored and a moderater will shut it down. If someone would have alerted a moderater it would have happened. You say you and others are leaving don't let the trolls win.
I recently left wb for 5 months because of crazy hostile attack-laced threads like this one. I think I will leave for another 5 months, and I'm probably not the only one...
I've done the same in the past, too, but why leave a good thing to the trolls? I can always choose to ignore.
In this case, the OP seems more upset about what might happen (noting he hasn't been on trail since the machine age), not a specific experience. Yes, you will run into the occasional jerk who's noisy, impolite, aggressive, etc., but the vast majority of your nights on the AT will be quiet and peaceful and spent with people who share something in common. It won't be a wilderness experience if you sleep in a box with a dozen other people. And by the way, even nice people snore. Don't let the 1% get you down (or get your hackles up as the case may be).
Average Hiker
07-15-2020, 16:37
This is an interesting thread. I guess I'm one of the technology hikers. I carry a 20,000 Anker on long hikes, along with a phone and InReach. The larger battery pack is really so I don't have to be glued to towns for recharging. I also blog and post to IG, FB and TW at the end of the day. Fortunately today's technology makes this very easy so I don't burn a lot of time using technology. I enjoy writing, and my family loves following along.
That said, I love the wilderness and respect those around me. I don't camp much near people or shelters and can't remember when another hiker bothered me with their technology. I backpack fairly often. I don't talk on my phone around other hikers or campers, and really only when in town. I certainly don't use my speaker phone. I also leave the phone on airplane mode during the day and just use it for photos.
Technology is inevitable, and for me personally, it does not diminish my backpacking experience. In some ways it enhances it and allows me to enjoy my surroundings more.
I'm very sensitive, so please don't beat up on me too hard. :D
Traveler
07-16-2020, 07:53
Excellent point! The issue really isn't in technology itself, were that the case there would be a hue and cry against the feel of manmade fabrics versus canvass, the heresy of internal frame packs, the noise of propane stoves, and hiking shoes not made of leather and don't have that soul-satisfying creak walking over ledge and rock. Fortunately, this gear has benefited from technology improvements just as electronics have. I cannot imagine hiking in jeans, cotton tees, with a wood frame pack creaking with every move, though I used that stuff many decades ago before the backpacking industry started modernizing equipment and since that time have avoided 10-pound blue jeans soaked from rain. Huzzah.
Your second paragraph really highlights the issue being about manners and appropriate use than it is about technology itself. Most people use some form of electronics when hiking, from step counting watches and GPS devices to smart phones and trekking applications for specific trails. As the electronic frontier expanded into this activity, much like the LNT philosophy, it took a while for people to adapt to a social contract that established guidelines on appropriate use of this equipment.
Knuckleheads exist in all things and for our community are usually easy to spot. Digging their initials into shelter walls, tables, signs, and trees as a means to boost shallow legacy, are uninterested illness spread by refusing to dig proper cat holes or observe basic hygiene to stem norovirus, and are typically a constant source of noise late into the night until the booze is gone. Under the "Ignorance Can Be Cured, It's Stupid That's Forever" doctrine, sometimes all that is needed is a quiet word to provide some perspective and education. Some, however, are destined to be stupid forever, their names scribed on outhouse walls for all to see.
Dan Roper
07-18-2020, 02:58
Four days ago I staggered into a hostel north of I-81 in Virginia, beaten to death by a long southern summer day. I spent the next couple of hours mostly seated, reading a book of Jack London stories, cooking dinner, and talking with two very nice gentlemen who came in just behind me. They were much more active than I was - recharging their phones, calling and texting loved ones, showering, laundering, cooking, talking companionably. Electronics gave them several advantages: communication, ready-at-hand information about weather and conditions up the trail, a sense of security. It was apparent that, to them (and most hikers today), whatever disadvantages exist are more than offset by the advantages. Do the disadvantages register anymore, or is it akin to a smoker who no longer smells the smoke on his or her clothes?
Average Hiker
07-25-2020, 09:56
Interesting question. The only real disadvantage for me is really just the weight of the electronics. The Anker battery pack I carry is heavy. I keep my base weight for 3 season hiking around 13 pounds so the weight does not bother me too much. The heavier battery also keeps me from being dependent on towns for recharging too often. Knowing the weather used to be a disadvantage for me. I would see bad weather and start second guessing my decisions or make bad weather "anticipation" decisions. Now I pretty much ignore the weather and take what comes at me. It makes for a less stressful walk. :-)
JohnEsta
01-11-2021, 22:42
Personally, I only try to use electronics in emergencies. I like the solitude with nature and the uncertainty of what the weather will be, as it creates more interest in the journey itself. After one incident when I badly bruised my leg and barely made it to the nearest road, I started carrying a satellite phone with me. On the advice of a friend, I looked at reviews of different phones from these guys buyersimpact.co.uk (https://buyersimpact.co.uk/) and I chose an inexpensive option with a good battery. In truth, I haven't used it yet.