View Full Version : hikers find man’s remains near Great Smoky Mountains campsite
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article245685550.html
As a bear lurked, hikers found a man’s remains scattered near a campsite in the North Carolina portion of Great Smoky Mountains National Park on Friday, rangers said Saturday.
After finding an unoccupied tent, the backpackers saw what appeared to be human remains scattered across a nearby creek, “with a bear scavenging in the area,” according to a park news release.
The hikers “quickly left” to get cell coverage and reported what they encountered to authorities, rangers said.
Rangers said the remains were found near Hazel Creek Trail. Park visitors can access the trail by catching a 30-minute boat shuttle across the western end of Lake Fontana, according to SmokiesInformation.org (https://www.smokiesinformation.org/news/hazel-creek-trail-gentle-and-wild.html).
I am not going to tell my wife about this incident.
rmitchell
09-13-2020, 06:16
Quick action by the rangers considering the remote location.
A good reason to carry a GPS with messaging capability as there is no cell coverage in that area.
Too soon to know details the cause of death of the camper.
Condolences to his/her family and friends.
doritotex
09-13-2020, 08:21
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2019/02/drugs-not-bear-attack-killed-man-great-smoky-mountains-national-park
doritotex
09-13-2020, 08:25
Methhead was out poaching ginseng, died of a drug overdose, the bear came across his dead body. It wasn’t a “bear attack”.
Dan Roper
09-13-2020, 09:00
??? The link posted by doritotex is to a death that happened two years ago and has nothing to do with the incident that is the subject of this thread.
Traffic Jam
09-13-2020, 10:39
9/12/20, body found near Hazel Creek, CS 82.
https://www.wbir.com/mobile/article/entertainment/places/great-smoky-mountains-national-park/bear-found-scavenging-on-human-remains-at-gsmnp-backcountry-campsite/51-faf5ac06-0651-4e8d-b5d3-ea7bd1b42173 (https://www.wbir.com/mobile/article/entertainment/places/great-smoky-mountains-national-park/bear-found-scavenging-on-human-remains-at-gsmnp-backcountry-campsite/51-faf5ac06-0651-4e8d-b5d3-ea7bd1b42173)
HooKooDooKu
09-13-2020, 14:00
The GSMNP Facebook group was/is going crazy over this story. Seems no one can bring it up without the discussion taking a turn for the worst and the tread getting deleted.
Update on that link Traffic Jam posted says they've identified the deceased. RIP Mr. Madura. Sympathies/condolences to his family and friends.
Seeing "Hazel Creek" and it being called a "remote location", had me wondering if it was near were the 16 y.o. boy (Gabriel Alexander), was attacked/bitten on his head/face while sleeping in his hammock back in 2015.
A quick check shows yes. Both Hazel Creek. One at/near campsite 82 and the other at/near campsite 84. The boys father was able to stop the bear from dragging his son off.
willin'
stephanD
09-13-2020, 17:32
Sadly, this bear will have to be destroyed
Quick action by the rangers considering the remote location.
it's actually pretty easy for a ranger to get over there.....
considering how remote it is....
they have a couple of boats (including a barge) that are anchored over at the marina....
they take that over to hazel and then get in either the 4 wheeler or the ford suburban that they have over there....
then just drive up to the area....
years ago, i hitched a ride on one of the four wheelers going up....
Sadly, this bear will have to be destroyed
it was killed friday night.........
once the rangers got there and saw what was going on....
A quick check shows yes. Both Hazel Creek. One at/near campsite 82 and the other at/near campsite 84
hazel creek is notorious for having campsites closed down over the years/decades due to bears and bad human activity...
that's one of the three trails that people are allowed to bring carts to wheel their stuff in...
and with that-----means more food...
some of those fisher people bring a ton of food....
one year i was over at one of the sites and for breakfast for 4 dudes-----cooked up 3 pounds of bacon and 3 dozen eggs.....
ton of food and one of the rare times i have had a breakfast out on the trail as they had extra.....
and that lower stretch of hazel---along the roadbed before it turns into a regular trail-----is very popular....
and can't forget that the Park brings people over on the barge and uses the suburban for the may celebration days at the cemeteries...
and those are typically a picnic type affair-----hence the tables and the out houses they have set out for that purpose....
And there is no hunting or thinning out of the bear population in the park correct? Unless there's interactions with humans? Quite the quagmire of a situation for sure.
And there is no hunting or thinning out of the bear population in the park correct? Unless there's interactions with humans? Quite the quagmire of a situation for sure.
that is correct....
outside (and literally right at the boundary) one is allowed to hunt but not inside the Park...
i have seen lots of bear hunting dogs on the north carolina side that are inside the Park........obviously they don't know the boundary
but their owners release them that close to the Park...
on the TN side----in the area where cove mountain fire tower is, there's an area to hunt there...
and yes, imo, a thinning of the herd would help things out somewhat....
of course, it also boils down to better human activity but seemingly over the years, there's more human-bear interactions
than ever before...
gatlinburg by passing their (soft) law regarding trash has somewhat helped out but not really...
bears are still coming into town because they are baited to do so and business owners know that people
want to see bears....
the Park does hire hunters to go and shoot hogs though....
they get a couple hundred each year but it really doesnt make a dent in that population....
HooKooDooKu
09-13-2020, 23:31
the Park does hire hunters to go and shoot hogs though....
they get a couple hundred each year but it really doesnt make a dent in that population....
Didn't realize that got rid of that many per year.
It's very rare when a bear acts up and alot times It's the humans fault for lnt practices or lack of. Considering how many bears are in there 1or2 every square mile, I'm surprised that there isn't more interaction. I'm also curious why the wild hogs don't act up .they get big and nasty and eat everything and anything. But we never hear about wild boar attacks or them even coming in and tearing up camps. Given the chance a wild hog will probably eat you before a black bear.
Time Zone
09-14-2020, 09:16
It's very rare when a bear acts up and alot times It's the humans fault for lnt practices or lack of.
To be clear it's not necessarily the fault of the particular humans involved in the bear encounter. At times, such as with the hammocking father/son combo, it was determined that they did everything right. To the extent that we suppose human behavior led to the mauling, it would have had to be people who came before them that didn't hew to best practices.
And there's always the chance that there's just some predatory black bear, not necessarily driven to it by human behavior. Rare, yes, but not unprecedented.
That said, I certainly support efforts to improve human behavior in bear country.
HooKooDooKu
09-14-2020, 09:57
That said, I certainly support efforts to improve human behavior in bear country.
Given that bear cables are provided at every back country campsite, it's rather pathetic when it comes to some of the behavior I've seen.
Sunday a week ago, I arrived at the LeConte back country shelter to see that 6 other hikers had already setup their gear and had wondered off to checkout the mountain top.
Left behind just sitting on the "table" was a bottle of HONEY!!!
Honey...mmmmm....that stuff is bearnip!
Given that bear cables are provided at every back country campsite, it's rather pathetic when it comes to some of the behavior I've seen.
Sunday a week ago, I arrived at the LeConte back country shelter to see that 6 other hikers had already setup their gear and had wondered off to checkout the mountain top.
Left behind just sitting on the "table" was a bottle of HONEY!!!
Absolutely ridiculous!! Poor bears don't stand a chance against stupid people!! " oh maybe when we come back from our walk a bear will be eating the honey and we can get some pictures." Stupid people!! Back to this poor guy who died in the woods alone . He was from Illinois and only 43 years old very young , very curious about cause of death at such a young age. Rip and condolences to the family.
BlackCloud
09-14-2020, 10:34
Shenandoah has similar problem with bear hunting dogs. Very common to run across them when hiking the side trails.
Am I missing something?
There is approximately 2 years separating the deceased’s entry into the Park and the surfacing of the news story and the start of this thread.
In what appears to be a busy part of the Park.
Something isn’t adding up.
Wayne
I think maybe you are looking at the wrong link/death, the one doritotex put up is from 2 years ago different incidents. I could be wrong correct me if I am please but I don’t think they're releasing any info as to how long this guy was at that campsite and cause of death, etc. And they just say remains not how decomposed so I wander how long he was dead before the bear came along. No disrespect please I'm just curious.
Time Zone
09-14-2020, 18:49
Left behind just sitting on the "table" was a bottle of HONEY!!!
That sounds like they were intentionally being jackwagons. In the interest of decorum I'll refrain from saying what should happen to them.
So the link to the 2 year old article is incorrect in the context of the recent discovery?
There are two separate stories?
I guess that makes sense.
Thanks!
Wayne
So the link to the 2 year old article is incorrect in the context of the recent discovery?
that is correct....
that link should have never been involved in this thread....
two separate incidents....
the one this thread is referring to just happened Friday night.....
and not many facts have been put out....
just the usual arm chair quarterback speculation going on......
Thanks TNHiker!
I thought I was losing it!
Wayne
BlackCloud
09-15-2020, 10:58
Thanks TNHiker!
I thought I was losing it!
Wayne
Which might also be two separate incidents.
HooKooDooKu
09-15-2020, 14:50
There are two separate stories?
Yeah, two stories, but the have some similarities...
Both men were found early September (09/09/2018, and 09/11/2020).
Both bodies had been scavenged by bears.
Both men were relatively young (i.e. 30 and 43).
The incident from two years ago was a man who went into the wood to poach ginseng, and according to autopsy reports, died from accidental meth overdose.
The incident from Friday appear to be a solo camper {unoccupied tent was discovered}, but the cause of death is unknown.
The incident from 2 years ago took almost 5 months for the autopsy report to be released.
So it might be months before we hear any reports on the cause of death for the recent incident.
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2020/09/bear-found-scavenging-remains-backpacker-great-smoky-mountains-national-park
One Half
09-16-2020, 08:43
Yeah, two stories, but the have some similarities...
Both men were found early September (09/09/2018, and 09/11/2020).
Both bodies had been scavenged by bears.
Both men were relatively young (i.e. 30 and 43).
The incident from two years ago was a man who went into the wood to poach ginseng, and according to autopsy reports, died from accidental meth overdose.
The incident from Friday appear to be a solo camper {unoccupied tent was discovered}, but the cause of death is unknown.
The incident from 2 years ago took almost 5 months for the autopsy report to be released.
So it might be months before we hear any reports on the cause of death for the recent incident.
I wonder if the timing of the incidents may have more to do with the bears "fattening up" for the coming winter. Maybe get a little more aggressive about packing on the weight?
I know that’s the only time I ever eat people.
I know that’s the only time I ever eat people.
Only around Halloween time for me :D .
BlackCloud
09-17-2020, 12:22
An article that discusses both bear situations:
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2020/09/great-smoky-mountains-national-park-officials-awaiting-autopsy-results
Only around Halloween time for me :D .
Which reminds me I'm looking for a overweight hiking partner for a week long section hike the end of October.
Which reminds me I'm looking for a overweight hiking partner for a week long section hike the end of October.
Oooo Ooooo Ooooo... Pick Me! :clap Pick Me! :clap ;)
willin'
LazyLightning
09-18-2020, 14:52
I know the autopsy will take a while but any chance of info like if there appeared to be any signs of a fight/struggle or claw marks on tent/pack or anything like that?
I know the autopsy will take a while but any chance of info like if there appeared to be any signs of a fight/struggle or claw marks on tent/pack or anything like that?
i have a feeling this will come out in the investigation.........
which will take a while....
sadly, i've lost all my media connections and can't really ask around.....
but, based on how the Park has responded in the past, this will take a little bit to get out...
since it's (and it might be but i havent had time to check around) not out just yet...
i would think that the Park would put it out sorta more quickly than the autopsy will take a bit and i
would think they would want to settle some of the public's fear and rumors down...
Yeah, so being sensitive to my wording. It's safe to assume that we all agree It's better he somehow unfortunately fell to his demise naturally, as opposed to a bear attack?. All the stupid things people do out there and you never hear of a black bear killing and mauling, which by the way shows a huge amount of discipline on their behalf.
Yeah, so being sensitive to my wording. It's safe to assume that we all agree It's better he somehow unfortunately fell to his demise naturally, as opposed to a bear attack?. All the stupid things people do out there and you never hear of a black bear killing and mauling, which by the way shows a huge amount of discipline on their behalf.
Or that we just are so unpalatable that only the hungriest of bears can stomach us...
All the stupid things people do out there and you never hear of a black bear killing and mauling, which by the way shows a huge amount of discipline on their behalf
over the years, it has happened though......
it's rare, but it does happen....
there was the guy up at spence field that had an incident with the bear coming into his tent and
chewing on him in 2016....
the kid down on hazel that was in the hammock that got some injuries.....that was 2015......
there's been one fatal attack in the Park in 2000........that was along little river trail.....
and there was the little girl that was killed in 2006 but that was in cherokee national forest, which is just nearby the Park.......
so it does happen in that area but in a way, with the visitation in the Park alone, it doesn't happen often.....
there are however, bear incidents, where a person might get injured from a bear in some sort of other way (and the Park keeps track of
these to monitor specific areas and specific bears in their habits)......
most of these are stuff like a person might have approached the bear for a better picture and the
bear might have done something that spooked said person........and they trip and fall from running away
and might break their leg or get scratched up by fall......
So it does happen, ( a couple i didn't know about thank you)but it happens mostly in the smokies or close proximity of correct? As opposed to the rest of the east coast black bear attacks , or anywhere else black bear attacks. And I hate to ask ya but as a journalist or whatever for however many years what is your gut feeling on this one! PS, if we could only convince the crowds that the bears are more dangerous than the virus, maybe that will keep them out.
retired journalist.......
those are the ones i remember over the years, and most i have covered in some sorta fashion.....
and for the fatal in 2000------that happened on a sunday, and i was hiking the same trail, in the same vicinity and saw
the two bears on the previous friday........
i was warned by other hikers that the bears were following people and being aggressive (they didnt define that to me nor did i see it
from the 5 to ten minutes i saw the two bears).....
but, if you google and/or search this forum, other black bear attacks from other parts of the country and canada have been documented.....
the fatals generally are the easiest to find as those are pretty much always covered by media of various sorts......
and if you're asking me for my gut feeling on this------i'd rather not speculate nor play arm chair quarterback.....
i'd rather wait til the facts, as they are known, to come out in the investigation....
and first fact is cause of death.....
that will answer a bunch of questions of what people have......
HooKooDooKu
09-19-2020, 10:19
Agreeing with TNHiker on this one.
Fatal bear attacks are so rare, we can't jump to the conclusion that the bear was responsible. While random deaths of what appears to be a responsible backpacker prepared for the conditions they are facing lends credence to the notion it was the bear, there are a host of medical conditions that can happen without warning. I had a friend who lost a sister to an anurisim at age 21. It was caused by an unknown defect in the girl's brain that never affected her life until this defect killed her.
And then there is the possibility of an accident. The guy was found by the creek. He might have gone down to the creek to get water, slipped on a rock, fell hitting his head knocking him unconscious and allowing him to drown. And then there is suicide... People have gone off into the Smokies to commit suicide (though I don't know if any previously known suicide was carried out by someone who has a tent and valid hiking permit... hence the reason I was pissed for the family when I saw someone say on Facebook "I think it was suicide" when the ONLY evidence they even admitted they were going by was the guy was age 43).
In other words, there are so many possibilities that until we have more evidence to point in a particular direction, any speculation at this point is really nothing more than a guess.
(though I don't know if any previously known suicide was carried out by someone who has a tent and valid hiking permit... hence the reason I was pissed for the family when I saw someone say on Facebook "I think it was suicide" when the ONLY evidence they even admitted they were going by was the guy was age 43).
and most suicides in the Park, seem to be in a parking lot or a pull off on the side of the road....
the exception to this one, that i can recall off the top of my head, was Jenny Bennett.....
she took her life on one of her favorite off trail routes in the Park......
(that one was eerie as i have been on a hike with her and then i went to cover---at first, just a missing woman in the park, later it was ruled suicide----
and then seeing her car at the trailhead)...
there's also Derek Lueking, who left behind a note that said don't bother looking for him and then set off somewhere from
newfound gap parking lot.............and his body has not been found..............while most will draw a conclusion that he did commit suicide,
i think since cause of death has not been determined since the body hasnt been found----that case will stay open (i could be wrong about this though)....
so very rarely do people get out in the backcountry and kill themselves as opposed to areas i described above....
i think for the most part, people want to be found after this happens....
ive heard some stories from some rangers about various suicides in the Park------one guy called the Park and described what parking lot
and what kinda vehicle they would find his body in.....
and during the Derek search, the rangers came across a suicide that either in or close by to newfound gap.....
Certainly are alot worse places to take your last nap...... I'd probably head into the back country myself......
Rusty Joints
09-19-2020, 17:52
HooKooDooKu-
Not that I need more craziness, but what's the name of the Facebook group?
Thanks
Rusty
HooKooDooKu
09-19-2020, 18:32
HooKooDooKu-
Not that I need more craziness, but what's the name of the Facebook group?
Thanks
Rusty
Hiking the Smokies
Based on what I've seen today, it looks like posts about the incident have started to peter off... For the last week, everyone that seemed to have just learned about it had to post to the group as if it were the first announcement on the subject. But usually the comments quickly would turn nasty (like comments on the euthanized bear or some other aspect of the situation) the admins would soon have to lock or delete the thread
Based on what I've seen today, it looks like posts about the incident have started to peter off... For the last week, everyone that seemed to have just learned about it had to post to the group as if it were the first announcement on the subject. But usually the comments quickly would turn nasty (like comments on the euthanized bear or some other aspect of the situation) the admins would soon have to lock or delete the thread
yeah......thats how it is with any controversial subject or close to it....
people need to listen to people like Daryl R who provides education in things related to wildlife instead of going
on their uneducated opinion.....
he knows what he is talking about (ya know, science and all that) but yet people try to contradict him.....
it's worse when people say they saw a panther in the Park...
Agreeing with TNHiker on this one.
Fatal bear attacks are so rare, we can't jump to the conclusion that the bear was responsible. While random deaths of what appears to be a responsible backpacker prepared for the conditions they are facing lends credence to the notion it was the bear, there are a host of medical conditions that can happen without warning. I had a friend who lost a sister to an anurisim at age 21. It was caused by an unknown defect in the girl's brain that never affected her life until this defect killed her.
And then there is the possibility of an accident. The guy was found by the creek. He might have gone down to the creek to get water, slipped on a rock, fell hitting his head knocking him unconscious and allowing him to drown. And then there is suicide... People have gone off into the Smokies to commit suicide (though I don't know if any previously known suicide was carried out by someone who has a tent and valid hiking permit... hence the reason I was pissed for the family when I saw someone say on Facebook "I think it was suicide" when the ONLY evidence they even admitted they were going by was the guy was age 43).
In other words, there are so many possibilities that until we have more evidence to point in a particular direction, any speculation at this point is really nothing more than a guess.
Absolutely correct. If I'm not mistaken there have been a couple of members here that have become despondent enough to end their lives in the wilderness. These are very tough times for quite a few folks. The autopsy and accompanying lab work will provide a clearer picture of what happened.
Anymore news on this anyone?
HooKooDooKu
10-27-2020, 18:40
Anymore news on this anyone?
The last time a body was found scavenged in the woods about the same time of year, the autopsy report wasn't made public until something like February of the following year.
{That would be the ginseng poacher found to have ODed while in the woods}