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View Full Version : the Packa (rainjacket/packcover)



Hammock Hanger
02-20-2003, 01:59
First let me say that I'm just way to lazy to do the "offical" type
of reports that some of you all do, so I'm gonna just label this as a lowly hikers opinion. (Don't get me wrong I love all the info on
your reports... as I said I'm just to lazy.)

The Packa is a rainjacket/packcover combo, it is made of silnylon and weighs in at around 12 ounces.

I ordered and rec'd the NEW medium size. I am a "less" then small person and it was plenty big. (Is that a politically correct way to state that you are a large person w/o calling yourself FAT?? :D)

I was very pleased with the UNRESTRICTED feel when the jacket was on. Since the jacket goes OVER the straps vs under that confined kind of feel does not exist. This also meant that I could slip it off and on at a whim. I could either let the arms hang down or tuck them up under the pack cover. In reverse when the day started out grey but not yet raining I could cover the pack and when the rain began to fall I could very easily pull out the arms and slip into the jacket without taking off the pack. The pit zips are real vents, to say they are large and useful not just for looks. Again since the jacket is free flowing and not tucked under the straps I was very please to find I DID NOT get the body heat induced rainstorm inside the jacket. At one point I was actually hiking in a silnylon jacket with a fleece and a shirt on under it, in FL, without drowning in my own fluids. This says mounds to me. It would have to be tremedously cold to get me to have tried that in my other jacket.

It had nice adjustable velcro tabs on the sleeves. Drawstring hood, with stand up visor. This newer model is longer which was very nice. When hiking it was long enough to cover my skirt so the rain was really only exposed from my knees down. There is even a extra 6" on the back tail so that when you sit it works like a sit-upon and your butt doesn't get wet. There is another drawstring at the bottom.

I give this product high marks for it's comfort and inside climate
control. For the length and light weight.

Unfortunately with ever up there is a down (just like the trail...)

The concept is a great one except if you choose to take a "PACKS OFF" break you have to take the jacket off. Then you must decide what needs the Packa more your or the pack. Now you can take off the jacket, slip a small piece of a trash bag over your pack and put back on the jacket. Unfortunately as I have said I'm lazy. So I took my breaks when it wasn't really pouring and left the Packa on the pack and I dealt with a little drizzle. (I don't mealt that easily.)

Second problem would be for those that like to roll up their sleeping mats and attach them to their packs crosswise. This would be a tough to impossible feat with the medium size. Would probably be doable with the large. I don't think there would be a problem if the mat was attached to the pack lengthwise. Here I luck out as I carry very little attached to the outside of my pack. We did do some barefoot hiking and I had to get a little technical on where my boots were hung to make sure that the pack cover fit over the pack. This was, however, only when I was using it as a pack cover only. Once you have it on it drapes over just about anything.

So as with just about any piece of equipment there are pros and cons. Then weigh in the results for what suits YOU best. For me the comfort of having no rain inside the suit with the ease of wearing or not wearing it far outweighed the cons.

I was very pleased with the product and did not feel like I had made another investment that would end up in the "used item for sale bin". :banana

Let me also say that Ed the inventor of the Packa was very helpful and plesant to work with. He was timely in returning emails, etc.

PS: I rec'd a suprise in my package, a pair of silnylon mittens. I
get extremely cold hand and found them wonderful in the cold morning are to wear. This way my fuzzy fleece mittens stayed dry to sleep in.

Hope this "opinion" was helpful to those that have been thinking
about the product. Feel free to email me with specific questions.

I will post a few pics to the gallery and then there is lways my journal site: www.trailjournals.com/hammockhanger (http://www.trailjournals.com/hammockhanger) Florida Trail.

www.thePacka.com (http://www.thePacka.com)
Sue/Hammock Hanger

Hikerhead
02-21-2003, 01:08
Good review HH. This is an interesting system and it would be good to hear from others that have also tried this out.

poison_ivy
02-21-2003, 10:11
Thanks for the review HH! This sounds exactly like what I"ve been looking for.
I am definitely going to try one out.
-- Ivy

Trail Yeti
02-21-2003, 12:04
HH, good review, sounds like an interesting product. Would it be possible to use this in place of your tarp on your hammock? Kind of like Rock does w/his? also, where does the "excess" pack cover material go when you are wearing it just as a jacket?
Yeti

Hammock Hanger
02-21-2003, 17:35
No it is not possible to use this as a hammock fly. Pretty much just a jacket/packcover (vaper barrier)

The excess material is just there... You can forget about it or as I did I tucked it into itself. A few stategically placed velcro strips would hold it secure and probably look better. I, was fine moving about not even thinking about the baggy spot on my back.

It still kept me warm when I needed it too, and better still did NOT sweat me up when I didn't want it to.

HH

Presto
02-21-2003, 17:42
Hammock Hanger, Did you find any problems in strong winds? I have considered this approach but feared the worse in strong winds. It is still an attractive option even if it functions poorly in wind.

Cedar Tree
02-21-2003, 18:22
I can possibly answer any questions regarding the Packa. I am Cedar Tree--inventor of the Packa. I thru-hiked the AT in 2000, started on 2/13 and sweated like a pig in my SD cajoule. I also tried a poncho and was too cold a lot of the time and wind was a huge problem. Also a poncho is just too difficult to put on and take off, especially alone. Hence, the packa idea was born.
Some points raised above I will try to address:
Wind: The packa is great in high wind as it has sleeve closures and a bottom hem drawstring. You can cinch it down tight if needed.
Shelter: no
The packa is for walking with a pack on in rainy or cold weather. For this, nothing beats it, or even comes close. (Of course, I am somewhat biased on the subject) The Packa allows much more control over body temperature while hiking than any other hiking rain gear. Check out thepacka.com for more discussion about this.
Wearing it w/o a pack: The packa can be worn without a pack, and it will protect you, but you will have a big floppy packcover on your back. I've never felt it bothered me. Several people have suggested I add a method of securing the packcover when worn without a pack, but I don't feel it is necessary. You could sew or possibly glue some hook/loop if you wanted.
HH did hit upon the one small drawback of the packa--what to protect those few times when it is raining, and you want to be separated from your pack--you or your pack. This is the same problem poncho users have if the poncho is both the rain gear and packcover. I, Cedar Tree, lover of the packa--still carry another lightweight jacket to wear in these situations. Another good solution is to put your tent fly, or ground cloth in an easily accessable place. Use the fly to temporarily cover your pack and you wear the packa.
The new packas are here, just like this one HH reviewed. New pictures soon at www.thepacka.com.
Contact me at [email protected] or post questions here and I will respond. Thanks Whiteblaze.net--Great Website.
Cedar Tree

Hikerhead
02-21-2003, 20:35
That's a nice touch Cedar Tree to come on line and to answer some of the questions that people have about your product.


Thanks.

Hammock Hanger
02-21-2003, 20:50
for stepping in to answer questions. He it stated much more knowledgably then I could.

1- Great in wind.
2- The "baggy" spot doesn't really present a problem
3- It is very comfy!!!:banana


Ed: Thanks for the idea of keeping my hammock fly out and using it when ever the need to seperate comes up. Sometimes things are right there in front of our face and we need others to point them out.

HH

Trail Yeti
02-22-2003, 01:32
Another idea if you use a silnylon pack like a Golite Speed, GG Vapor Trail or or the new Gregory pack...since it is silnylon it is pretty much water proof...you aren't gonna get much leakage in a few minute pack break, and then you could wear the packa!

Cedar Tree
04-26-2003, 20:11
Packa on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3605855035&category=2021

Blue Jay
04-26-2003, 20:38
Cedar Tree, are you the thru from 2001?

Cedar Tree
04-27-2003, 09:45
No, I thruhiked in 2000. I met a guy named Blue Jay on my hike. In MA I believe, somewhere up North. He carried a wooden hiking stick like mine and he tried to hook me up with a shower at a scout camp up ahead for me, but I missed the turn off. Are you him?

Blue Jay
04-27-2003, 11:23
Yes, I often get my years mixed up. I'm sooo glad to hear from you. I had just got on the trail there and hiked down to the Grayson highlands. Your journal entries were wonderful and slower NOBOs and people in places where you stayed always spoke highly of you. I swear people were nicer to me just because I met you for a few moments.

Cedar Tree
04-27-2003, 12:43
Thanks Blue Jay, I appreciate the kind words. I met hundreds of nice people on my hike. I guess thats one of the best parts of a thru. Funny thing, I looked in my journal to see exactly when we met, and that was a very pivotal day for me. That day, June 2, 00 was the only day I really ever seriously considered quitting my thru. The heat was killing me then, I hate hiking in hot weather. But that day, and the next, turned out to be 2 of the best of my whole hike. It was in CT, and I was down, as I said. We met in the morning just after I got on back on the trail after staying at Housatonic Meadows State Park. After meeting you, my day went down hill (no pun intended) but a young guy named Slade picked me up at Falls Village and I ended up sleeping on the couch at a friend of his. We all went out to Great Barrington to a place called The Old Egremont, or Old Egg. It was just the diversion from the trail I needed. Then things only got better as I absolutely loved Sages Ravine and Race Mountain the next day. When people ask me my favorite place on the trail, thats what I say: Sages Ravine. For some reason, that whole episode of Slade and Sages Ravine recharged my will to finish. Meeting you was cool too, I hate I missed that shower. Cedar Tree

Blue Jay
04-28-2003, 08:24
Sages is a very majical place. I go there often. Just north of there is Bear Rock Falls, the sunrise there is almost always spectacular. If you are ever up this way again, we could hit both places in one day. The heat often kicks ass on thrus in CT. On my thru I hit the only flat on the entire AT just north of Kent on a 102 degree day (I found out later). I was wondering why the trail was bobbing and weaving under my feet.

Kerosene
04-29-2003, 12:07
I also enjoyed Sages Ravine, but I passed on a much cooler day. Still pretty neat, though. Someday I'll get back that way.

Click here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=998&thumb=1&si=sages) for a few pictures I've posted.

Cedar Tree
05-20-2003, 11:12
Yet another Packa on Ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3609496697&category=2021

Cedar Tree
11-11-2003, 19:01
I have placed a new Packa on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3637332727&category=2021&rd=1
Cedar Tree
www.thepacka.com

Cedar Tree
03-25-2004, 22:47
***COMMERCIAL POST ALERT***

Packas on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2797276897

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2797253406


Plus, I needed to get the Packa back on the first page of the gear reviews forum at WhiteBlaze. :)

Hammock Hanger
03-26-2004, 11:12
Still loving mine. Think I'll go check Ebay for one for the hubby. (BTW, whatever happened with your hammock/pack??) Sue/HH

DebW
03-26-2004, 12:30
I'm bidding on the small one. Should be a perfect fit for me and my pack.

okpik
03-26-2004, 13:20
I'm bidding on the small one. Should be a perfect fit for me and my pack.
The fun in bididng is not knowing when or where they are coming from.
I could never bid against you now (besides the smaller one won't fit one big ole' me. LOL). :bse I am watching the big one though. :D

Big Dawg
03-26-2004, 15:46
I learned about the Packa today via this post, & WOW, seems like a great product, & I want one, but cannot afford the retail price,,,, seems like I'll be bidding on EBAY. My question is: I'm 6'5, 230 lbs, & my pack is approx. 5000 cu.in., will the xlarge fit me & my pack (pack is long & thin, & I only fill it up to about 4000 to 4500 cu.in.

Cedar Tree
03-26-2004, 16:06
James, the two Packas on ebay now probably won't work for you. But, I do have a couple more XL packas that I have modified to increase the packcover volume. Since I've modified them, I don't feel comfortable selling them as brand new. So look for them on ebay (and I'll post a notice here too) soon. Thanks for your interest James,
Cedar Tree

Cedar Tree
04-21-2004, 15:49
Packa on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125220416&category=2021&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT&rd=1


and

Silnylon mittens too:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125223578&category=2021&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT&rd=1

Cedar Tree

Cedar Tree
06-24-2004, 15:05
Royal Blue size S/M Packa on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2021&item=5104623609&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Thanks,
Cedar Tree

HikeLite
06-25-2004, 21:10
HH did hit upon the one small drawback of the packa--what to protect those few times when it is raining, and you want to be separated from your pack--you or your pack. This is the same problem poncho users have if the poncho is both the rain gear and packcover. I, Cedar Tree, lover of the packa--still carry another lightweight jacket to wear in these situations. Another good solution is to put your tent fly, or ground cloth in an easily accessable place. Use the fly to temporarily cover your pack and you wear the packa.
Cedar Tree
When wearing a poncho and needing something out of the pack, I can easily slide out of the pack, kneel down, bring my head down into the poncho, and find what I want from my pack. Do the reverse to put the pack back on without getting it, or you, wet. If you need to separate from the pack, just keep a garbage bag handy in the outside of your pack to cover the pack first before moving away from it. Easy enough. :banana

jlb2012
06-26-2004, 05:42
looks like Exped is producing a product very similar to the Packa : Exped link (http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/WWW-All/F95E130CBC195C7DC1256B20003EFC1B?OpenDocument)

Cedar Tree - is this a licensed operation on their part or is it a rip off?

Cedar Tree
06-26-2004, 10:26
Thanks for the Heads Up Hog on Ice. Someone told me about Exped's product before, but that was the first I've seen of it. It looks different from the Packa in that it doesn't have sleeves or a front zipper. (Am I correct?)
But it does look like you deploy the poncho part without removing your pack, like you do with jacket part of the Packa. Anyway, Exped is a German company, and my patent is on good in the U.S.

The Packa on Ebay is at $10.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2021&item=5104623609&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Thanks, Cedar Tree

Cedar Tree
07-19-2004, 09:57
It's now at $22.50 with about 2 days left.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2021&item=5109338958&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Cedar Tree

alalskaman
07-27-2004, 20:32
Hard to believe, it's almost August here in usually rainy south-central Alaska, I've been out virtually every day, never had to use my new Packa. Until today - ta-da! It's great. I walked for a while in a poly t-shirt, was pretty wet when I decided to use the Packa, the ventilation is wonderful - with the pit zips, and without the pack straps pressing the fabric against me, I actually dried out inside the packa, walking a few miles uphill. Would have soaked myself in most rain gear. Count me as a satisfied user. Life is easier, too, without worrying about whether I've double-bagged everything in the pack. Cheers, Bill

White Oak
07-27-2004, 22:01
looks like Exped is producing a product very similar to the Packa : Exped link (http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/WWW-All/F95E130CBC195C7DC1256B20003EFC1B?OpenDocument)
How much does the Exped product cost? Can't find a price in deutche marks or dollars.

jlb2012
07-28-2004, 08:13
How much does the Exped product cost? Can't find a price in deutche marks or dollars.

If the link I found is correct the price varies based on size from $33 to $53 but this was not a site that was actually selling the item. link (http://www.mountainzone.com/html/indnews/2002/html/05_21_exped.html)

Cedar Tree
07-28-2004, 09:15
Thanks Alaskaman for the positive comments on the Packa.
The Exped PackcoverPoncho is still confusing to me. If it has a front zipper, then it is the Packa, but as far as I can tell it doesn't have a front zipper.
Hence, it is different from the Packa. But, if there is no front zipper, how does it deploy? Is there enough fabric in the poncho (front) part so that you can slip it over your head without removing your pack?
Do you think thats how it works?
Or do you have to remove your Pack to deploy the poncho part?

As for weight comparison, it looks like they are pretty close, but I think the Packa wins barely. A custom made XL I finished yesterday weighed in at a whopping 9 oz. total. My new pattern design for the Packa is much improved.

This 9 oz custom Packa will be on ebay soon, and it is sweet.

As for cost, eventually the Packa will be much cheaper (I hope). As I've said before, I'm just a one person company, and at the numbers I buy, my cost is still too high to really get the price of the Packa down.

But, eventually I will go overseas with manufacture myself if I have to....

But, the biggest news is.....

I have recently been contacted by a MAJOR GEAR COMPANY that MAY be interested in either buying my patent or licensing the Packa.

Finally some recognition/respect from a big gear company.

But Mom says not to count my chickens before they hatch, so keep your fingers crossed for me.

Thanks,
Cedar Tree

Cedar Tree
08-25-2004, 06:07
Brand New Navy Blue Small/Medium Packa on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2021&item=5117547910&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Thanks,
Cedar Tree

SGT Rock
08-25-2004, 08:59
The packa is a cool product. If you are looking for a rain jacket with the ventilation similar to a poncho that allows you to have your pack inside with you - the packa is a good idea.

dougmeredith
08-25-2004, 09:34
The packa is a cool product. If you are looking for a rain jacket with the ventilation similar to a poncho that allows you to have your pack inside with you - the packa is a good idea.
I am certainly intrigued by this product, but I am concerned about some of the problems mentioned by the testers at BGT. The one that comes to mind was leaking around a draw-string hole or something like that. Anyone know if these issues have been addressed or if there is some reason I should discount the BGT comments?

SGT Rock
08-25-2004, 09:36
I didn't have leaking around the drawstring hole, but I did have a little leaking at the joint of the pack part to the back of the jacket. The jacked doesn't come seam sealed and except for a few possible high risk spots, it really doesn't need it.

Cedar Tree
08-25-2004, 11:06
I seam seal the grommet hole area on each one now before I ship it out.
CT

steve hiker
08-25-2004, 11:27
I seam seal the grommet hole area on each one now before I ship it out. CT
Are you Mr. Packa? Why is it so expensive?

Cedar Tree
08-25-2004, 12:47
Are you Mr. Packa? Why is it so expensive?

Well, I don't think it is that expensive. When you price a jacket and a packcover, you won't find too many decent products less than $110 for the pair.

However, to answer your question. It is currently so expensive because it is manufactured in the USA and at the numbers I buy, my costs are still very high.

Hopefully, if a big manufacturer licenses the Packa, or if I eventually get them manufactured overseas, the price will drop significantly.

Cedar Tree

Mr. Clean
08-26-2004, 07:53
I recently bought a Packa, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Hmmm, I don't think I've ever wished for rain before...

SGT Rock
08-26-2004, 09:59
Wear it in the shower ;)

DavidR
09-09-2004, 19:53
Are you Mr. Packa? Why is it so expensive?
I recently picked one up on ebay for pretty darn cheap.

I'm pretty excited that I will not have to loose sleep anymore wondering if it is going to rain while I'm on the trail...

Cedar Tree
09-09-2004, 20:27
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2021&item=5121653977&rd=1

extra cheap, used, but still good.

CT

alalskaman
09-20-2004, 23:58
Just an update on my packa experiences - tried taking it as only raingear on a canoe trip - not a great idea, as when I was paddling, the pack got wet. Duh. However, two hiking trips have been great. I use the packa with Golite Reed pants, had more or less steady light rain - worked great. On another trip, was overtaken by a very sudden downpour including hail - was pretty damp by the time I got the pants and packa on. But all was fine, stayed comfy - eventually the rain stopped, left the pants on, slipped out of the sleeves of the packa, left it as a pack cover. When I got where I was going, everything was nice and dry in the pack, also did not have to hike in wet shoulder straps, hip belt, which was nice. Altogether, a very nice piece of equipment - several ounces less that my goretex REI jacket, and an overall contribution to dry comfort. Bill

Cedar Tree
11-30-2004, 19:34
Your choice of color and size, brand new, currently at $10

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2021&item=5143609406&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

CT

Nameless
12-01-2004, 05:18
Hello,

I saw your packa on ebay, and am extremely interested.

I am also extremely small and was wondering if that packa could be made to a custom size. At five foot tall, and only 105 pounds, i think even the small/medium would be way too big. I wasnt really seriously looking into replacing my raingear before i saw this, but having a pack cover and a rain coat that are far from lightweight made we wish i could. This just may give me the oppurtunity at a cost that i can actually afford (no way i could handle the 110 of a normal packa)

Thanks
Pink

Cedar Tree
09-20-2005, 09:55
I have placed a Packa on Ebay.

http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?uid=8719541&site=0&ver=LCA080805&item=5245028482&lk=URL

Thanks,
CT

Mr. Clean
09-20-2005, 11:42
I finally got to use mine this Spring on a non-AT overnight. Cool and raining here in Maine, but the packa kept me warm and dry (except for the sweating part). Worked like a charm. I did have a tad of trouble getting it on at first, but with practice it went on pretty well; I used the wind to help put it on, like an extra hand. I liked being able to hide under it while getting snacks and stuff out of my pack during rest stops.

alalskaman
09-25-2005, 02:38
My packa is still one of my favorite items...I just love having it on my pack, then when it starts seriously raining, just slip my arms into it...packing the pack is easier, no more double-bagging critical items. I think an ideal combo would be some sort of a featherweight windshirt for mere drizzles...but have not yet done that, just the packa over my normal hiking clothes or a Montbell thermawrap if its cold. bill

saimyoji
09-25-2005, 11:24
The Packa rocks. Everyone should have one. Easy to make your own too....

Rambler
09-27-2005, 10:36
What size packa are people using? I'm 5'9", 165lb, and carry a full Golite Gust.
Can't decide if a L/XL would be too big or the S/M too tight. Most reviews have been when one-size-fits-all was the only option. Other reviews do not mention size.

Cedar Tree
09-27-2005, 11:57
Rambler, you are right in the area where you could go either way on size. The pack cover section for both sizes is the same, about 4000 ci. I am 6ft 185 lb and I can where either size comfortably. The only real difference I can detect is sleeve length. The small have shorter sleeves by a couple inches.
Thanks for all the postive posts.
CT

VAMTNHIKER
09-27-2005, 18:20
Cedar Tree,

Was impressed with your product when we chatted at Trail Days (I was the one that had the WM bag; yep.. still have it and keeping it as a backup to my JRB quilts, sorry!)...

I do have a question for you and others who have used the Packa..

..trying to be consistent with minimizing gear... what happens when using the Packa as raingear around camp, town, e.g. not carrying a backpack? Doesn't the extra material hang down to low in the rear? :-?

Love the idea for use while hiking; just think I would prefer a different solution for other times.

Interested in everyone's thoughts!

Footslogger
09-27-2005, 19:22
..trying to be consistent with minimizing gear... what happens when using the Packa as raingear around camp, town, e.g. not carrying a backpack? Doesn't the extra material hang down to low in the rear? :-?
==============================================
Well ...my packa is custom and has a smaller back section to cover my pack (Thank Cedar Tree !!) which cuts down on the excess. In any event, what I do is pull the draw string tight and it holds the extra material close to your back.

'Slogger

dougmeredith
09-27-2005, 19:53
what happens when using the Packa as raingear around camp, town, e.g. not carrying a backpack? Doesn't the extra material hang down to low in the rear?
I don't find that it bothers me at all. It may look silly, but I don't really care.

Doug

Hammock Hanger
09-27-2005, 21:14
My packa is a medium so it may be smaller then others but the loose back really never seems to be an issue.

Cedar Tree
09-28-2005, 08:02
For the most part I've found the extra fabric not to be a problem when the Packa is worn without a pack. However, you do need to be aware of it in some cases. I hung the fabric on the bench of a picnic table one time, and it kept me from standing up.
CT

Curt
09-28-2005, 22:17
Cedar Tree,

Last year I carried the Packa inside my backpack for the entire two week hike. I was hoping for rain but it did not come. In May of this year I was finally able to wear it and it kept me and the backpack dry in a torrential rain. I highly recommend your Packa. Thank you for going the proverbial extra mile to help me understanding how to put the Packa on and off.


God bless,

Corsican

Kerosene
09-29-2005, 08:59
What about a Packa made out of a breathable waterproof fabric, like Epic, at least for the body? Is that a possible customization option?

Cedar Tree
09-29-2005, 09:46
I have made a couple out of duravent (Frogg Toggs material), and one of them came out pretty sweet. I would like to do more out of other breathables, but just haven't gotten around to it yet. I tried to get my hands on some eVent, but it is very expensive, and difficult to obtain in small quantities. But to answer your question, any type of custom packa is an option. If you want to provide the fabric of your choice, I will make you a packa.
CT

Just Jeff
09-29-2005, 10:12
How many yards of material would you need?

Kerosene
09-29-2005, 11:30
Thanks, Cedar Tree. I'm a devotee of Frogg Toggs. It would be great to have that same breathability with the Packa design, especially if I'm going to be spending over $100 for an alternative. I can see how eVent (that's what I meant, not Epic) would be difficult to acquire and work with, although I'm impressed with its moisture transport characteristics.

Do you have any feedback from your Duravent prototypes as to how performance compares to sil-nylon in high-exertion situations?

Cedar Tree
09-29-2005, 18:36
To Just Jeff:

It takes about 3.5 - 4 yards of material to make a Packa, if the entire Packa is made of the same material. The pack cover section doesn't need to be breathable, only the jacket part, so probably about 2 yards for just the jacket part with a silnylon packcover.

To Kerosene:

Actually, neither Duravent Packa has been hiked with at all. The first one was one of my earliest Packas, and did not turn out well. I still have it, but it is really not worth using. The second one, which turned out really good, I made for myself, but I made the Pack cover (silnylon) WAY too big for me. It is HUGE, I don't know what I was thinking. I really probably should cut the pack cover part off and replace it with a more reasonable size. The jacket part is sweet. But, I never hiked with it because of the huge pack cover part. I tried to get Flashhand to buy it at Traildays, but he ended up buying another silnylon custom Packa. So I still have it too. And, I am out of Duravent. What size pack do you carry?
CT

Kerosene
09-29-2005, 18:53
I'm carrying a Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone, about 3,000 cubes with 24-27 pounds on average. I probably won't get back to backpacking until next fall (torn MCL and committed vacations with wife), so I'll keep my eyes open for 2 yards of Duravent or similar material.

Just Jeff
09-29-2005, 21:11
CT - how much does the Duravent one weigh? How small does it stuff? (I've never seen Frogg Toggs stuffed down small.)

Are there any problems seamsealing between two dissimilar materials, like Duravent and silnylon?

Thanks...

Cedar Tree
01-17-2006, 21:20
CT - how much does the Duravent one weigh? How small does it stuff? (I've never seen Frogg Toggs stuffed down small.)

Are there any problems seamsealing between two dissimilar materials, like Duravent and silnylon?

Thanks...

The Druavent Packa weighs 14.5 oz. I have not seam sealed the seams between the two fabrics, but don't think there would be a problem. It stuffs relatively small, I'd say about the size of a quart nalgene. It does fold up into the pocket. I have been told I will be sent 10 yds of eVent, but still waiting.

Packa on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Packa-Total-coverage-for-Hiker-and-Backpack_W0QQitemZ8753076357QQcategoryZ74005QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

CT

bulldog49
01-17-2006, 22:38
Are you Mr. Packa? Why is it so expensive?


http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39177490&memberId=12500226

What I use, only $25.

minnesotasmith
01-18-2006, 11:04
I have a Kelty pack of about 4000, and my Packa fits it fine. I used my Packa all the way through my section hikes in GA this past summer, and intend to carry it on my upcoming thruhike attempt next month. I still wear a nylon windbreaker top (longsleeves) underneath for sun/bugs/brush in all temps, and may wear snow pants when there is white stuff on the ground.

BTW, I had a phone discussion yesterday with one of the pros at Mountain Crossings (outfitter @ Neel Gap; great people) when I called to check on my final pre-thru gear order. He told me that Frogg Togg pants tend to blow out so frequently that they lost interest in carrying them any more. They offer some other brand of (heavier) rain/snow pants instead. I keep telling MC to start carrying the Packa; Cedar Tree, have you ever talked with them?

longben
01-24-2006, 16:21
In all my time shopping for gear on the internet, I have never seen a product with such consistently positive results. I am almost surely going to try and get my hands on a L/XL packa for my upcoming thruhike.

I am 6'5" inches tall but am very slim (175 pounds), I am thinking L/XL since I have very long arms. Sound Right?

Thanks Cedar Tree and keep us posted on ebay auctions.

Just so you know your last auctionn ended only this morning, but I can't find it by simply searching ebay, I need to use your link. Don't know why that is since it is still available to view by using the link?

Frosty
01-24-2006, 16:33
In all my time shopping for gear on the internet, I have never seen a product with such consistently positive results. I am almost surely going to try and get my hands on a L/XL packa for my upcoming thruhike.

I am 6'5" inches tall but am very slim (175 pounds), I am thinking L/XL since I have very long arms. Sound Right?Tell this to Cedar Tree. I'm 6'5" and when I talked with him at Traildays, he said he could add length to the sleeves. It looked like four inches would be right, so I asked for eight inches so I could just pull my hands up into the sleeves and not have water drip on them in the rain. It worked out perfectly.

Cedar Tree
01-29-2006, 15:24
In all my time shopping for gear on the internet, I have never seen a product with such consistently positive results. I am almost surely going to try and get my hands on a L/XL packa for my upcoming thruhike.

I am 6'5" inches tall but am very slim (175 pounds), I am thinking L/XL since I have very long arms. Sound Right?

Thanks Cedar Tree and keep us posted on ebay auctions.

I'd have to say I've gotten consistently positive feedback from Packa owners as well. Longben, you probably need a s/m Packa with sleeve extensions like Frosty's (Thanks for your support Frosty). The only real difference in the s/m Packas and the l/xl is sleeve length. Which means you won't be able to get what you need off ebay. I don't do custom work on ebay Packas. But I don't charge extra for modifications on the Equinox Packas or for custom made Packas.

To minnesotasmith: Thanks for your support too. I have "dealt" with Mountain Crossing before and it was not a good experience. Thats why it surprised me when you said they were considering carrying the Packa.

To bulldog49: You get what you pay for.

CT

Hammock Hanger
01-29-2006, 15:50
I am currently hiking on the FL Trail, all 3 of us are carrying Packa's :). We have been lucky enough not to have much rain so far but have had some cold mornings and a day of super wind. The packa always worked great, as an outer-layer during cold mornings and as windbreakers during 40-50 mph winds up on Hoover Dike. (At one point little SC did blow-up like a balloon about to fly away.)

Ed you make a great product and your customer service to me and many of the friends I have sent your way has always be first rate. Sue/HH

tiamalle
01-30-2006, 00:13
Yes, I often get my years mixed up. I'm sooo glad to hear from you. I had just got on the trail there and hiked down to the Grayson highlands. Your journal entries were wonderful and slower NOBOs and people in places where you stayed always spoke highly of you. I swear people were nicer to me just because I met you for a few moments.how expensive are their jackets:confused:

minnesotasmith
01-30-2006, 05:35
how expensive are their jackets:confused:

From http://www.thepacka.com/page3.html :

My preference for ordering is to contact me by phone or email:

Edward Hinnant

276 780 2354

[email protected]



And Then,

Send check or money order so that YOU don't have to pay for Paypal's services. The price for both sizes is $110 + $5 shipping.

If you would like to pay with a credit card, you must use Paypal. It costs an extra $5 to pay for their service. Use the Paypal Link Below.

Cedar Tree
03-31-2006, 17:55
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8789903861

This one is L/XL orange, brand new.

Also, I finally received some eVent and have recently completed the first eVent Packa. If you are interested in it, contact me. Price is $200.
Thanks
Cedar Tree

Klezmorim
04-07-2006, 18:03
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8789903861

This one is L/XL orange, brand new.

Also, I finally received some eVent and have recently completed the first eVent Packa. If you are interested in it, contact me. Price is $200.
Thanks
Cedar Tree

... for the heads-up. I just won it!

Cedar Tree
07-08-2006, 19:44
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&item=130005298252&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

Thanks,
CT

Rambler
07-08-2006, 23:00
Although the Packa is my rain gear now, I did add an important modification. When wind blows rain straight at my front, the zipper leaks, causing a wet cold feeling against chest and mid-drif. Solution was to add a silnet lining on the inside just wide enough to cover the zipper. I thought of adding a waterproof zipper, but could not find one long enough. Another problem: I needed to get first aid gear out of my pack during a rain. Either I had to get wet or the pack gets wet. I have now decided to pack a rain-cover which I will use only if I have to take the pack off in the rain.

Another feature I like about the packa is its length. It covers the bottom of my shorts, so they stay dry.

Cedar Tree
07-09-2006, 08:34
Although the Packa is my rain gear now, I did add an important modification. When wind blows rain straight at my front, the zipper leaks, causing a wet cold feeling against chest and mid-drif. Solution was to add a silnet lining on the inside just wide enough to cover the zipper. I thought of adding a waterproof zipper, but could not find one long enough.

On my custom packas I place a zipper flap over the front zipper. I have also used the waterproof zippers with good success. Quest outfitters sells very long ones. The silnet is a good idea though, does that work pretty well?


Another problem: I needed to get first aid gear out of my pack during a rain. Either I had to get wet or the pack gets wet. I have now decided to pack a rain-cover which I will use only if I have to take the pack off in the rain.

Yeah, this is the biggest issue with the packa. If you need in your pack, or away from your pack WHILE it is raining, something usually gets wet. I used to carry a whole nother jacket just for this problem. But now I place my tarp/tent fly in an easily accessable place on the side of my pack, a place I can reach, usually going through the pit vent, without removing the packa. I drape that over me and remove the packa and pack. Then You can then wear the packa and leave the pack covered if you need to walk down to a spring or something. However, in all my 5 years of hiking with the packa, this has only happened to me about 3 times. But, I guess one good soaking could make someone not like the Packa.


Another feature I like about the packa is its length. It covers the bottom of my shorts, so they stay dry.

mrc237
07-09-2006, 08:58
Just got back from a LT section where it rained every day the packa performed magnificently. I was able to slip my arms out of the sleeves and able to take my pack off without removing packa. Also when wearing it as a jacket I used 2 small pieces of stick-on velcro to fasten the sag created when not carrying pack. Nice work on this Cedar Tree.

Cedar Tree
09-22-2006, 18:16
Thanks mcr237 (EZ), for the positive comments.

Packa on ebay. Custom made.

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Packa-Total-coverage-for-Hiker-and-Backpack_W0QQitemZ130030014271QQihZ003QQcategoryZ1 37007QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks, CT

Cedar Tree
09-30-2006, 15:17
ATTENTION WHITEBLAZERS-- commercial post alert

I will be at the Gathering in WV and I am having a BIG sale on new, old, and slightly defective Packas. Normally, my retail price on the Packa is $110.

At the Gathering only, my price will be $90 for the newest edition of the Packa, and $80 for the few (5) remaining old style Packas.

Plus, as an extra special Whiteblaze deal, if you give me the secret Whiteblaze handshake and password, or simply tell me you are a Whiteblaze member, I will reduce the price of any Packa $5 and donate $5 to Whiteblaze.net.

I will also have Packas available in breathable fabrics including eVent, Stormtech, and duravent (frogg toggs) at various prices.

Finally: Packa on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130032754512

Thanks, and looking forward to seeing everybody at the Gathering,
Cedar Tree

Long feet
10-05-2006, 13:42
Hey Cedar Tree,

I thought I would post this wild idea in case anyone else had the same thought. I have been considering getting either a packa or this: http://jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Jeffs%20Gear%20Hammock-Pack%20Cover.htm.

Jeff's gear hammock and pack cover will not act as a rain jacket, but I could use it as a water bag and a sink. Do you think this is something that a packa could do as well? I would be happy to have a custom job is that would work.

Also, has anyone ever asked for a packa without a hood. I wear a tilley hat that I love and a hood just seems redundant, at least for me anyway.

Also, if it could be used as a water bag, why not a gear hammock as well. I don't want to encourage anyone to bite on anothers design, I think I am just looking for that anatainable piece of gear that does everything (slices, dices, julienne fries...).

Anyone else have any ideas of what else could be rolled into a custom packa? Thanks.

Just Jeff
10-05-2006, 16:58
I thought about adding grosgrain loops onto my Packa to make it a gear hammock. It should be a pretty easy mod to do yourself. I didn't do it b/c I want easy access to my raingear after my shelter is up, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. (That would be no different than using a poncho/tarp as your only raingear/shelter.)

Cedar Tree
10-05-2006, 17:01
Jeff's gear hammock and pack cover will not act as a rain jacket, but I could use it as a water bag and a sink. Do you think this is something that a packa could do as well? I would be happy to have a custom job is that would work..

I think Jeff's design, and the Jack's design are basically the same thing, if I am not mistaken. I also believe they make their packcover/water storage/wash basins with no seams---but rather a large oval shaped piece of fabric with a drawstring around the edge. (maybe Jeff or Pan can comment on this). However, the Packa's packcover section has seams, which I guess could be sealed enough to act in this manner. But, I really don't think a water holder is a function you would want to do with your Packa. At least, I wouldn't. As for a gear hammock, I definitely think the Packa could serve this function with very minimal alterations.


Also, has anyone ever asked for a packa without a hood. I wear a tilley hat that I love and a hood just seems redundant, at least for me anyway. .

No, I've never had a request for a Packa without a hood. But I feel sure I could make one without a hood for you. Pass me the sissors please.

Thanks for the questions,
Cedar Tree

Just Jeff
10-05-2006, 17:10
They are indeed the same product. The one on my website doesn't have the ribbons on the corners but it's the same design. And you're correct that it's one large piece of fabric with no seams. Just the hems.

I was planning on rolling the hood down on my Packa when I wear the hat in the rain. I've worn it that way and it seems to work, but I haven't had it in the rain that way yet. I didn't want to cut it b/c what would I do if my hat blew away or I lost it? The safety of having the hood as a backup probably costs less than an ounce - not worth it to me.

But if I like the setup, I'll probably sew a channel to hold the hood out of the way, like the zipper channels on the back of many jackets. That'll also act as a stiffener for the back of the collar so the rain can't run off the pack and onto my neck.

That's just me - YMMV and that ounce may be worth it to you.

CT - why don't you move the pack cover grommet from the top of the pack to the bottom and eliminate any water coming in there?

Cedar Tree
10-05-2006, 17:43
CT - why don't you move the pack cover grommet from the top of the pack to the bottom and eliminate any water coming in there?

Thanks for the clarification Jeff. I went to the Jacks website after I posted and saw that their product is your design.

As for the grommet on the bottom, I have tried this and to me it was much more difficult to tighten/loosen the drawstring when it was on the bottom. However, this suggestion has been made to me so many times, I think I will look at it again.

The newest Packas from Equinox are sewn over at the grommet area now, like my custom Packas. Most of the Packa owners on this site have the old style where I would seam seal this area, which works ok, but doesn't look that great. The newest edition is much better.

CT

Cedar Tree
10-25-2006, 16:10
Not one but TWO new "old" style Packas on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130040587072

Thanks, CT

Rambler
12-14-2006, 00:32
Since I first contributed to this thread back in July, '06,the Packa has become my favorite piece of gear. It will be on my don't-leave-home-without-it gear list for four seasons. I even used it on a non-hiking trip to France.

Footslogger
12-14-2006, 09:37
Also when wearing it as a jacket I used 2 small pieces of stick-on velcro to fasten the sag created when not carrying pack. Nice work on this Cedar Tree.

================================================

Can you be more specific about those 2 small pieces of stick-on velcro ? Where did you put them ? How long were they ? Pics ??

Thanks in advance. We (BadAss Turtle and I) really like our Packas, which Cedar Tree customized to the size of our packs (thanks CT) but would like to experiment with ideas for containing the "pouch" when not wearing a pack.

'Slogger

Cedar Tree
12-14-2006, 17:35
Can you be more specific about those 2 small pieces of stick-on velcro ? Where did you put them ? How long were they ? Pics ??



Thanks Rambler and Footslogger for the positive comments and continued support. Its been a good year. I am on track to have my biggest year ever.
The Packa has been consistent. I sold 51 in 03, 57 in 04, 48 last year and 56 so far this year, with 2 sales on the line.

Rambler, I'd like to see how you placed the velcro too. Also, how is the silnet on the zipper working out? Great idea. Thanks again,
CT

BrianLe
03-06-2007, 23:01
I posted these questions on backpacking.net and someone kindly pointed out that the Packa is discussed a lot on this forum, so ...

As background context, I've never done any of the AT, but I'm thinking about doing the PCT next year (a lot of the same issues). I live in Western Washington where it rains a lot :) but I'm particularly interested in the Packa as my one-and-only rain/wind shell for a variety of conditions over 2660 miles of PCT.

(1) I'm concerned about how well this will work with a light 66 cm long ice axe strapped to my (Mariposa Plus) pack, even if I have all the pointy bits covered (btw, I'd also appreciate any thoughts on a very lightweight approach to covering all three of spike, pick, and adze ...). Any field experience there?

(2) I'm wondering what the right approach is on dry but cold and possibly windy days is. It would be somewhat of a PITA to have to put an unneeded pack cover on in order to use the jacket in that situation --- less easy access to the pack. Putting it on under the pack would leave all the pack cover material dangling down between me and the pack and less ability to ventilate. The "carry a second jacket" option isn't appealing to me, I'm really trying to keep the weight down.

(3) A couple of reviews from 2002 talk about the cord locks at the waist whipping around and interfering with use of trekking poles; can anyone speak to that issue?

The more I think of this product, the more it strikes me as a great synergy of some of the best aspects of a poncho and the best aspects of a jacket. Thanks in advance for any feedback to the above.



Brian

Frosty
03-06-2007, 23:11
(2) I'm wondering what the right approach is on dry but cold and possibly windy days is. It would be somewhat of a PITA to have to put an unneeded pack cover on in order to use the jacket in that situation --- less easy access to the pack. Putting it on under the pack would leave all the pack cover material dangling down between me and the pack and less ability to ventilate. The "carry a second jacket" option isn't appealing to me, I'm really trying to keep the weight down.How often do you take your pack off and on while hiking?

You can wear the packa as a cloak, with your arms not in the sleeves. It is fairly easy to slip your arms out of the sleeves and then you can drop your pack without interference.

Wearing your pack over the packa defeats part of the benefit: with that packa, the shoulder straps and hip belt don't get waterlogged and heavy.

Footslogger
03-06-2007, 23:12
Brian,

I've got a Packa and plan to use it on my PCT thru. I live in Wyoming where there tends to be lot of wind and storms come in quickly. The Packa is easy to put on without taking your pack off and I personally have never had any problems using my trekking poles with the Packa on.

If the rain is on and off you can unzip the Packa for venting but keep it on in case the rain comes again fast. I remember one day hiking in the Medicine Bow when it started raining and the temp dropped like a bomb. As soon as I got the Packa on I noticed my body warming up.

As far as the ice axe situation is concerned I have no experience to date. On the PCT I plan on using the Black Diamond Whippet rather than carrying a separate ice axe so it is not an issue for me. What I would say is that if the points are covered and the Packa doesn't fit too tightly it shouldn't be a problem. My Packa is custom cut and fits more tightly around my pack than the standard model so I know there wouldn't be enough room for me.

You mentioned not wanting to carry an extra rain jacket. I feel the same way but I plan on carrying the 5 oz Equinox Anorak for use in town and for the call of nature at night during a rain storm.

'Slogger

stuco
03-06-2007, 23:13
That's a very fine idea indeed. Before I saw this I was thinking of making a similar type device with a rainjacket I've already got. I was thinking of just slicing up the back sewing in a big sil extender flap that can be toggled or buttoned closed. I think I had come accross the packa sometime and maybe it was in the back of my head.

BrianLe
03-07-2007, 01:18
Thanks, Footslogger, for your reply in general and the pointer to the interesting Whippet product. In fact, the whippet looks to be about the same weight as the combination of one of my 5.8 oz trekking poles (okay, a little heavier with a basket added) and the 5 oz ~ice axe I'm thinking about:
http://www.ula-equipment.com/helix.htm (if you look at this also read the FAQ)
And I think that any sort of ice axe (even one with a carbon fiber shaft) will have a lot more stopping power than the whippet; have a look at:
http://www.aai.cc/ask_a_guide.asp#whippet
Not trying to talk you out of your choice, just sharing a different viewpoint.

Okay, this thread isn't about ice axes (axis? axii?) --- sorry for the divergence. I appreciate your point about the packa not having to fit tightly over the pack. I don't plan to carry an axe the whole trip (!), and in fact for a lot of the section I would carry it, hopefully it's in my hand and not on the pack anyway.

In fact, this relates to my other issue, windy and cold but dry weather. I wonder if I could perhaps roll up the unused pack cover part (perhaps with rubber bands) and just leave this lying between pack and me just above the pack straps --- would that work? That would presumeably also cover the case where I had the ice axe on the pack.

Guess I'll fill my pack up and measure it against my existing (somewhat longer) ice axe to see just how much a 66 cm'er would likely stick above, if at all.


Brian

Footslogger
03-07-2007, 10:12
Thanks, Footslogger, for your reply in general and the pointer to the interesting Whippet product. In fact, the whippet looks to be about the same weight as the combination of one of my 5.8 oz trekking poles (okay, a little heavier with a basket added) and the 5 oz ~ice axe I'm thinking about:
http://www.ula-equipment.com/helix.htm (if you look at this also read the FAQ)
And I think that any sort of ice axe (even one with a carbon fiber shaft) will have a lot more stopping power than the whippet; have a look at:
http://www.aai.cc/ask_a_guide.asp#whippet
Not trying to talk you out of your choice, just sharing a different viewpoint.

Okay, this thread isn't about ice axes (axis? axii?) --- sorry for the divergence. I appreciate your point about the packa not having to fit tightly over the pack. I don't plan to carry an axe the whole trip (!), and in fact for a lot of the section I would carry it, hopefully it's in my hand and not on the pack anyway.

In fact, this relates to my other issue, windy and cold but dry weather. I wonder if I could perhaps roll up the unused pack cover part (perhaps with rubber bands) and just leave this lying between pack and me just above the pack straps --- would that work? That would presumeably also cover the case where I had the ice axe on the pack.

Guess I'll fill my pack up and measure it against my existing (somewhat longer) ice axe to see just how much a 66 cm'er would likely stick above, if at all.


Brian

============================================

Well ...already bought the Whippet so that's what I'm going to carry on the PCT. In reading journals and observing photos I see way too many hikers with the ice axes strapped to their packs. I carry trekking poles anyway so substituting the Whippet for one of them is an easy adaptation. Plus, as you pointed out, an ice axe for self-arrest is only needed for a certain section of the trail. I am very confident that the Whippet will serve my needs on the PCT and will always be in my hand if/when I need it.

Now, back to the Packa. The "pouch" that covers the backpack is surrounded by shock cord with a barrel lock fastener. So, you CAN snug down the excess silnylon "somewhat" to accomodate different sized loads.

I just found after owning mine for a while that it was just too large for the pack I generally carry and I did not like all that excess fabric flapping in the breeze. So, I had Ed "Cedar Tree" take out a bit of the fabric. Course now I'm going to carry a slightly larger pack on the PCT and don't know if it will fit. Time will tell.

'Slogger

alalskaman
03-24-2007, 01:28
I've posted favorable comments on the packa before - this is just an update. Since moving here to Vancouver, "the rain city" my daily training walks have given my rain gear a real good test. It's still true, wearing a rain jacket under a pack pretty much ruins the breathability. I have a Montbell versalite jacket, pretty breathable, but with the pack straps there's not much ventilation, and I get wet. With the packa, even with the non-breathable silnylon, I stay drier. This is helped by the fact that my pack has front pockets -- sort of a chimney effect. I get a bit wet from condensation on my sleeves, but then I get that with the rain jacket too. Another thing...the Packa hood is not as refined as the Montbell, but I've discovered that even in the upper thirties or low forties, having a hood all cinched down gives me a wet head from inside. The very best setup is the Packa, but with the hood down, and an umbrella. I guess Jardine and some of the other brolly users have it right. My pack is very waterproof, I've tested it here too! So in a way I don't need the pack cover function so much -- but its still nice to have the straps dry. And of course, I just love being able to reach back and shove my arms into the sleeves of the Packa. A poncho would not be as easy to get into when rain arrives.

Cedar Tree
12-11-2007, 20:31
Packa for a penny.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130182712643

CT

Footslogger
12-11-2007, 22:29
Packa for a penny.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130182712643

CT

------------------------------------------

Is that YOU man ...are you "packa500" ??

'Slogger

BTW ...the wife and I still love the ones that you custom cut for us !!

Cedar Tree
12-12-2007, 07:49
------------------------------------------

Is that YOU man ...are you "packa500" ??

'Slogger

BTW ...the wife and I still love the ones that you custom cut for us !!


Yes, it is me.
CT

Pennsylvania Rose
12-12-2007, 13:34
Packa for a penny.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130182712643

CT

Been experimenting with rain gear lately. I'm less and less happy with standard wp/b jackets, so got some Frogg Toggs really cheap for two of my kids to try. So-so - especially for durability. I'm in the bidding for this Packa. Hope to win, although price is an issue, especially this time of year. If I like it, we'll be back for more (there's six of us all together - volume discount ?:-?). Have you ever made one for little kids?

Ewker
12-12-2007, 14:39
don't push up the bidding so early, there are plenty of days left to bid..dang newbies to ebay :p

Pennsylvania Rose
12-13-2007, 11:23
Sorry, I don't stay chained to my computer and may not be around on the last day of bidding for something, so I just put in my max and live my life. Has worked just fine so far - I've won everything I've really wanted, for less than my max and way less than retail.

PS. I'm not peanuts7999

peanuts
12-13-2007, 11:45
but i am peanuts7999:)

Pennsylvania Rose
12-13-2007, 12:41
Hi - I guess we're duking it out (in a friendly way, of course).

Ewker
12-13-2007, 12:45
I knew it was you two going at it :D I may see you at the end of the bidding ;)

peanuts
12-14-2007, 10:36
:p :::a rasberry for ewker::::p
yes my first time on ebay....so learning:eek:

Ewker
12-14-2007, 10:45
hey peanuts, how are you. I just noticed the size of tha packa..to small for me..happy bidding ladies

peanuts
12-14-2007, 11:39
i am fine, and you? i hear your surgery went well....

Cedar Tree
12-14-2007, 20:01
hey peanuts, how are you. I just noticed the size of tha packa..to small for me..happy bidding ladies

Don't give up too quick Ewker. The smalls are pretty big. The packcover section is the same for both sizes, about 4000ci. The only real difference I can detect between the Equinox sizes is sleeve length. Unless you are a very tall guy with long arms, you should be good to go. I am 6ft and 190lb and I can wear a small easily.
CT

Smile
12-14-2007, 20:05
Are the new ones being made with an improved zipper?
:)

Ewker
12-14-2007, 20:15
CT thanks, I looked on your site for sizes and saw this S/M or L/XL. I just didn't know how they were broken down. If you wear a small I would hate to see how big an XL is

Cedar Tree
12-14-2007, 20:25
Are the new ones being made with an improved zipper?
:)

Which zipper are you referring to? All zippers are still the same size, small teeth, light weight, but fairly fragile if you aren't careful. But overall, I've had very few returned because of a bad zipper. The front zipper now has a rain flap, a nice improvement.
CT

Smile
12-14-2007, 20:35
That is what I meant, the rain flap.

Glad to hear that it's a new improvement! I've seen plenty of these on trail over the past few years, and may add one this year to my gear list :)

Cedar Tree
12-18-2007, 19:22
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130182712643&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=003

1 hour to go. $22 + shipping at this point.

COMMERCIAL POST!!

Thanks Whiteblaze.
CT

longwe tru
12-19-2007, 00:11
Will you be putting any more packa on ebay any time soon?

Cedar Tree
12-19-2007, 07:55
Will you be putting any more packa on ebay any time soon?

No, not until probably around May.
CT

Pennsylvania Rose
12-19-2007, 09:31
Can't believe the bid didn't go any higher. I feel like I've ripped you off, Cedar Tree. But, like I said earlier, if I'm happy, we'll be back for more.

Ewker
12-19-2007, 13:50
congrats on winning..you got a super deal

Christopher Robin
12-19-2007, 16:17
Ceder Tree does the front have a two-way zipper? I like the fredom fo venterlating both top & bottom.

peanuts
12-20-2007, 10:18
:( yeah...she won:( enjoy!!!!!:sun

Cedar Tree
12-20-2007, 12:00
Can't believe the bid didn't go any higher. I feel like I've ripped you off, Cedar Tree. But, like I said earlier, if I'm happy, we'll be back for more.

Yeah, you got a sweet deal. It went out this morning Priority Mail, so you very likely will get it before Christmas. Most returns sell for more than that. Most new Packas usually go for around $70 on ebay.


Ceder Tree does the front have a two-way zipper? I like the fredom fo venterlating both top & bottom.

I've used a 2-way zipper on some customs, but the factory made ones have 1 way only.

Cedar Tree

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 12:16
I received my Packa in the mail on Thursday and decided to take it out this past weekened. If anyone doesnt know what I am talking about here is the website. (http://thepacka.com/). I took it on a small three day trip through the DWG with rain on Friday and little on Sunday, it performed flawlessly.

Pro's: Weight, they claim 11oz but mine came in at 9.8oz, packable, can be used as a pillow, folds up into its own pocket, hood fits my head well, lots of straps (bottom, pack cover, hood, wrists), pack cover fits very well and snug. Highly breathable with huge pit zips (had 3 shirts on plus a longsleeve with jacket and felt good in 60* weather)

Con's: Practically none. I don't prefer the sizing system that they use. Either S/M or L/XL. You can always go custom if that bothers you.....

Just thought I would share some information on a great product.

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 12:40
Pro's: If you have the pit zips unzipped all the way you can access the side pockets in your bag (if you have them).

max patch
04-14-2008, 12:51
Con's: Practically none.

There are many, many, many times when I have my pack cover on my pack when it is raining but I do not wear my rain jacket because of the heat.

There are also times when it is raining and I have my rain jacket on but I need to get inside my pack for something.

whitefoot_hp
04-14-2008, 14:43
poncho is better. can the packa serve as a shelter? nope.

Tipi Walter
04-14-2008, 14:48
Will it work with my 6400 cubic inch pack? Nope.

jlb2012
04-14-2008, 14:51
Tipi Walter - it is possible to work with Cedar Tree and get a custom Packa made that will fit your pack

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 16:53
There are many, many, many times when I have my pack cover on my pack when it is raining but I do not wear my rain jacket because of the heat.

There are also times when it is raining and I have my rain jacket on but I need to get inside my pack for something.

It was about 60 degrees, hiking hard with three shirts on and I was good with the pit zips fully unzipped. I have not had the jacket in any temperatures higher than that so I cannot comment on it. I have not seen any jackets with bigger pit zips than the packa though.

As for having to get inside your pack when its raining, thats something that seems to be unavoidable. Thats why I listed as a pro being able to access side pockets through the pit zips. Its sort of like listing a con of a shoe because if you have a rock stabbing you in the toe you have to take your shoe off :rolleyes:

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 16:55
poncho is better. can the packa serve as a shelter? nope.

Its not a con if thats not what its intended purpose is or if they claim that it can be used for that.

My tent poles cannot be used as trekking poles, I guess my tent sucks....

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 17:05
Will it work with my 6400 cubic inch pack? Nope.

I know that Cedar Tree does some customs packas, not sure what exactly they are willing to modify though. I use a 5000ci pack and my SM/M fit around my pack very well. You should try contacting him through his website or through the forums here.

Tipi Walter
04-14-2008, 17:26
Thanks for the head's up.

SGT Rock
04-14-2008, 17:33
I'll add to what I found. I am likely to want to stick on my pack cover in bad weather but not put on a jacket right away or keep taking it on and off. When using a packa and I could see bad weather coming I could put it on just like a pack cover and tuck in the arms and hood. Then if it started raining I could do a quick pull out of the arms and hood to stick them on and then put them back away if it stopped. In the winter or early spring when you have weather that is warm enough to not want to wear a rain jacket all the time but cold enough you don't want to walk in the rain without a jacket, the packa rocks. When I busted my zip I really missed it. As for getting into your pack, there are some tricks when you wear it.

I'll also add that unlike a pack cover/rain jacket combo, there is no rain down the back between the two and your straps are all inside your jacket instead of on the outside. Big deal you say? Think of the soaking wet pack straps you have to put on the next day after a rain storm - no issue with the packa. Think of those pockets of hot air inside the rain jacket created by the straps on the outside which section off your torso and prevent air flow - not a problem with the packa as they are all open for good ventilation even in warmer weather. Think of the poncho blowing around you in windy weather - not an issue with the packa as it form fits just like a jacket. Think of the lost pack covers crossing mountains like the humps when air gets under there in a 60 mph wind - not an issue with the packa.

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 17:45
+1 to everything that you said. I used the packa as just a packcover and it works fantastic. I thought that it would be a pain in the butt to get it to stay and everything but when you fold the sleeves in, they fold onto a seam and works flawlessly.

Frosty
04-14-2008, 18:46
There are many, many, many times when I have my pack cover on my pack when it is raining but I do not wear my rain jacket because of the heat.Not trying to be a pest, but I have to point out that the Packa goes on your pack like a standard pack cover. You can wear it just as a pack cover and nothing else.

BUT...

What a Packa will do when it is hot is allow you to wear it with your arms not in the sleeves, like a cloak. As much or as little ventilation as you want. Keeps you dry, both from rain and body moisture.

SGT Rock
04-14-2008, 19:47
There was another good thread on this - so I merged them up.

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 21:33
Thanks Sgt.Rock.

whitefoot_hp
04-14-2008, 21:33
Its not a con if thats not what its intended purpose is or if they claim that it can be used for that.

My tent poles cannot be used as trekking poles, I guess my tent sucks....
did i say something sucked? No, i merely said something was better

why are you regretting the 100+ bucks you spent on some sil nylon?

whitefoot_hp
04-14-2008, 21:35
I'll add to what I found. I am likely to want to stick on my pack cover in bad weather but not put on a jacket right away or keep taking it on and off. When using a packa and I could see bad weather coming I could put it on just like a pack cover and tuck in the arms and hood. Then if it started raining I could do a quick pull out of the arms and hood to stick them on and then put them back away if it stopped. In the winter or early spring when you have weather that is warm enough to not want to wear a rain jacket all the time but cold enough you don't want to walk in the rain without a jacket, the packa rocks. When I busted my zip I really missed it. As for getting into your pack, there are some tricks when you wear it.

I'll also add that unlike a pack cover/rain jacket combo, there is no rain down the back between the two and your straps are all inside your jacket instead of on the outside. Big deal you say? Think of the soaking wet pack straps you have to put on the next day after a rain storm - no issue with the packa. Think of those pockets of hot air inside the rain jacket created by the straps on the outside which section off your torso and prevent air flow - not a problem with the packa as they are all open for good ventilation even in warmer weather. Think of the poncho blowing around you in windy weather - not an issue with the packa as it form fits just like a jacket. Think of the lost pack covers crossing mountains like the humps when air gets under there in a 60 mph wind - not an issue with the packa.

integral designs poncho has a remedy for the wind. a belt. plus all of the pluses you named for the packa.

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 21:38
Actually, I was looking into the packa after hearing numerous good things about it. I started a thread about it a few weeks ago and cedar tree was kind enough to send me a free one. I was kind of skeptical of the price but after using it I would spend $100 bucks for it anyday. So no, no regrets........

SGT Rock
04-14-2008, 21:39
integral designs poncho has a remedy for the wind. a belt. plus all of the pluses you named for the packa.
Actually I have tried that. Trust me, it isn't the same.

whitefoot_hp
04-14-2008, 21:54
Actually I have tried that. Trust me, it isn't the same.
i tried sleeping under a packa. an all night fetal is a tough position, man!
(just joking)

GGS2
04-14-2008, 22:28
I have a really old, red poncho that is big in the back to fit over a pack. When I wore it without a belt, it was a pain, and didn't really keep me dry. But with a belt (a rope tie, actually) it is much better. It has snaps all down the sides, and with the tie, it stays put (mostly) during a windy rain. But it is really well ventilated. Much better. The pack straps are inside, the pack stays drier than I do, and my legs and shoes (runners) get wet, but they mostly do in any case. So I like it pretty well. If only it wasn't so red.

SGT Rock
04-14-2008, 22:29
Exactly. There is another situation where it isn't the same. I tried the old poncho as shelter thing a while but never caught on to it as a full time choice.

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 22:41
There ya go, now your thinkng! Buy the packa, crawl up in the fetal position inside the pack cover, than role yourself up like a tortilla :D


i tried sleeping under a packa. an all night fetal is a tough position, man!
(just joking)

joel137
04-14-2008, 23:31
I ordered one a couple of years ago, but had to send it back, as my pack was a bit too big for pack over part of the Packa. I wish he'd make some larger sizes that would accommodate larger packs.

How does this compare with a rain cape?

http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/appareldetail.cfm/IN1312

One made by integral designs

88BlueGT
04-14-2008, 23:54
What size pack are you using? Cedar Tree said that my packa was meant to be used with a ULA 4600ci catalyst. As of right now, I am using a Jansport 5000ci pack and it fits fine, no issues. I'm guessing your pack is bigger than 5000ci? Maybe the product has changed, it has been a few years.

SGT Rock
04-15-2008, 08:03
I have to say that depending on how I packed my gear, the packa was a little hard to get on - it took me some fine tuning to get it to fit right. When I did have to buy a pack cover after messing up my zipper the Granite Gear pack cover (large size) didn't cover my pack nearly as well as the packa did though.

ofthearth
04-15-2008, 11:19
I know that Cedar Tree does some customs packas, not sure what exactly they are willing to modify though. I use a 5000ci pack and my SM/M fit around my pack very well. You should try contacting him through his website or through the forums here.

I think you'll find Eddie very easy to work with. I wanted an extra pocket and some velcro tabs added to my Packa and he came up with a good way to do what I wanted done.


Tipi Walter - it is possible to work with Cedar Tree and get a custom Packa made that will fit your pack

See above


poncho is better. can the packa serve as a shelter? nope.

Sort of. I was staying in my tent, friends in shelter. Started to rain in the mornin before shelter people were up and I did not want to take tent down in the rain. Packa worked well as a bivy (?) as I sat on the edge of the shelter (with the rain blowing in). Big enough to get all of me in the Packa- warm, dry. Would not want to spend the whole night that way ..... but then I would not want to spend the whole night in a hammock either (sorry couldn't resist:rolleyes:)


+1 to everything that you said. I used the packa as just a packcover and it works fantastic. I thought that it would be a pain in the butt to get it to stay and everything but when you fold the sleeves in, they fold onto a seam and works flawlessly.

It has a draw string that can be used to draw it up on the pack if you so desire.

Cons

It is going to require a pack cover/garbarge bag to use on the pack when you are using the packa and not carrying the pack. Have not found away around that one yet. And when it is raining and you are trying to get the pack on something is going to get wet unless you have a shelter handy.

It is silnylon-it does sweat....... like a poncho, tent or anything else under the right/wrong circumstances. Hot wet vs cold wet.

It is not the most stylish thing around ..... unless you are trying out for a part ringing a bell in a church.

ofthearth
04-15-2008, 11:29
I have to say that depending on how I packed my gear, the packa was a little hard to get on - it took me some fine tuning to get it to fit right. When I did have to buy a pack cover after messing up my zipper the Granite Gear pack cover (large size) didn't cover my pack nearly as well as the packa did though.

After trying a number of different ways I now just put it on the pack first then slip into it. Or if the wind is not blowing to hard, flip it over my head and then pull it around the pack.

88BlueGT
04-15-2008, 17:05
I just put my bag int he ruck cover first and than put put my ruck on with the packa already attached to the pack. reach around, grab one sleeve and thats it. It has worked well that way for me so far.

Cedar Tree
04-15-2008, 18:58
integral designs poncho has a remedy for the wind. a belt. plus all of the pluses you named for the packa.

Except for one. Can you wear your poncho as a packcover only.....and then deploy the jacket (front of the poncho) part so that you are fully covered (with your belt) in about 10 seconds (or less) without removing your pack?


i tried sleeping under a packa. an all night fetal is a tough position, man!
(just joking)


Exactly. There is another situation where it isn't the same. I tried the old poncho as shelter thing a while but never caught on to it as a full time choice.

If you use your poncho as your shelter, you are much more hardcore than me. I tried a poncho on my thru-hike, going over a bald on a very windy, rainy day quickly convinced me they suck. I wouldn't begin to try one as a shelter.

My hiking philosophy in a nutshell: What do you do most when thruhiking or long distance hiking? My answer: walk and sleep. My philosophy: I want to be as comfortable as possible during the things that take the majority of my time. I want to be comfortable when I am walking, and I want to be comfortable when I am sleeping.

The Packa is a tunnel vision invention. It is designed for the lightweight long distance hiker. It has really only 1 purpose as far as I am concerned. It is for hiking, with a backpack, in rainy or cold weather. It is not for wearing to the mall, or for use as a shelter.


I just put my bag int he ruck cover first and than put put my ruck on with the packa already attached to the pack. reach around, grab one sleeve and thats it. It has worked well that way for me so far.

The best way to deploy the jacket (I've found) is to start from the top. Pull the hood out, and the sleeves and jacket will follow.

Thanks as always for everyone's positive comments. Frosty, please keep being a pest.

Packa on Ebay. Used but in good shape.

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Packa-hiker-and-backpack-rain-cover_W0QQitemZ130215037713QQihZ003QQcategoryZ2021 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Cedar Tree

whitefoot_hp
04-15-2008, 20:42
Except for one. Can you wear your poncho as a packcover only.....and then deploy the jacket (front of the poncho) part so that you are fully covered (with your belt) in about 10 seconds (or less) without removing your pack? i meet few people with stop watches on the trail. i have never tried, but i have conceptualized using my poncho as solely a pack cover.





If you use your poncho as your shelter, you are much more hardcore than me. I tried a poncho on my thru-hike, going over a bald on a very windy, rainy day quickly convinced me they suck. I wouldn't begin to try one as a shelter. A poncho is made from the same materials as most shelters. i do not see what makes it so hardcore.


My hiking philosophy in a nutshell: What do you do most when thruhiking or long distance hiking? My answer: walk and sleep. My philosophy: I want to be as comfortable as possible during the things that take the majority of my time. I want to be comfortable when I am walking, and I want to be comfortable when I am sleeping. we are in agreement here. my poncho is comfortable when it rains, as it is well vented. It is also comfortable at night when it blocks wind and rain. It is also comfortable in weight savings, as it is a double use thing.

i guess where we differ is that you seem to be ok with bringing single use items and i am not.

The Packa is a tunnel vision invention. It is designed for the lightweight long distance hiker. It has really only 1 purpose as far as I am concerned. It is for hiking, with a backpack, in rainy or cold weather. It is not for wearing to the mall, or for use as a shelter.

joel137
04-16-2008, 01:25
What size pack are you using? Cedar Tree said that my packa was meant to be used with a ULA 4600ci catalyst. As of right now, I am using a Jansport 5000ci pack and it fits fine, no issues. I'm guessing your pack is bigger than 5000ci? Maybe the product has changed, it has been a few years.

It didn't really fit over my catalyst, nor the pack I ended up taking which was a Kelty Shadow, which comes in at 4500cc and I don't think is a horribly huge pack. And the REI morning star I now use is slightly larger; again not huge but these aren't 2500cc ultralight packs either. I really wanted to try the packa as I think its a great idea, it just needs to have some other standard size choices; IMO. I know he makes custom sizes, but I really think at least one larger standard size that could fit a 4500cc - 5000cc pack would be useful.

And while on the subject, I like using ponchos, but I sure wish they wouldn't put the head hole in the middle, it needs to be placed forward as you need extra cloth to cover the backpack. I bought the integral design and consider this as a design defect for use while backpacking.

ofthearth
04-16-2008, 10:06
It didn't really fit over my catalyst, nor the pack I ended up taking which was a Kelty Shadow, which comes in at 4500cc and I don't think is a horribly huge pack. And the REI morning star I now use is slightly larger; again not huge but these aren't 2500cc ultralight packs either. I really wanted to try the packa as I think its a great idea, it just needs to have some other standard size choices; IMO. I know he makes custom sizes, but I really think at least one larger standard size that could fit a 4500cc - 5000cc pack would be useful.

And while on the subject, I like using ponchos, but I sure wish they wouldn't put the head hole in the middle, it needs to be placed forward as you need extra cloth to cover the backpack. I bought the integral design and consider this as a design defect for use while backpacking.

Have got a catalyst and the packa fits fine even with some gear hanging off of the pack and seven days of food inside. Did you get the right size?

When I was looking at ponchos vs pack covers etc I saw some ponchos that had extra length in the back to compensate for the pack.

88BlueGT
04-16-2008, 10:27
Thats weird that it wouldnt fit with a bag smaller than 5000ci. Maybe you recieved the wrong one or something? Granted, I only use about 4,000 in my bag theres still the room there to be taken up.

Skidsteer
04-16-2008, 17:39
I can't fathom how it wouldn't fit over a Catalyst.

joel137
04-16-2008, 23:26
Thats weird that it wouldnt fit with a bag smaller than 5000ci. Maybe you recieved the wrong one or something? Granted, I only use about 4,000 in my bag theres still the room there to be taken up.


I don't know, it didn't fit; I may have to back track, but the catalyst is only slightly smaller than the Kelty; I know for sure that it didn't fit the Kelty as that is the one I ultimately took on the trip as I couldn't fit everything I wanted to take in the Catalyst. I had at least one phone conversation with Ed who was very helpful. I ended up returning it. It was only slightly to small. I may have to consider buying a custom fit version. I liked the product and Ed was great to work with.

88BlueGT
04-17-2008, 17:55
Agreed +

Good Luck w/ your next packa. Hopefully everything works out this time :)

Cedar Tree
03-18-2009, 20:09
Thanks ATTroll, I really do appreciate you making this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y6Belr3mrA

Looking forward to seeing everyone at Trail Days. The newest version of the Packa should (hopefully) be available.
Cedar Tree

Jorel
03-19-2009, 13:24
If I may comment....I have, and love my Packa. As far as the issue with you pack in the rain, I reversed my pack, seam sealed it, and it is totally waterproof. I tested it in a two hour shower, with two towels inside the pack, and no moisture intruded at all. So, I am not worried about my pack getting wet. The Packa is a great rain jacket, mostly because it does not allow any rain down your back like a traditional rain jacket and pack cover. It also has unbelievably great ventilation. Finally, it is large enough that it can also act as a ground cloth for my Wild Oasis, or at a minimum another "blanket" over me in the night. I am a huge fan, and think that everyone should at least check them out.

Frosty
03-19-2009, 14:15
If I may comment....I have, and love my Packa. As far as the issue with you pack in the rain, I reversed my pack, seam sealed it, and it is totally waterproof. I tested it in a two hour shower, with two towels inside the pack, and no moisture intruded at all. So, I am not worried about my pack getting wet. The Packa is a great rain jacket, mostly because it does not allow any rain down your back like a traditional rain jacket and pack cover. It also has unbelievably great ventilation. Finally, it is large enough that it can also act as a ground cloth for my Wild Oasis, or at a minimum another "blanket" over me in the night. I am a huge fan, and think that everyone should at least check them out.
Did you weigh the pack before and after the two hour soak? CUrious to know how much it weghed with the straps good and soaked. One of the things I like about the Packa is that it covers the shoulder straps and hip belt, both of which suck up water like sponges.

I sealed my pack, too, but the fabric itself, while "water resistant," is not waterproof itself, so seam sealing did not help in an all-day rain. Water wicked in through the fabric. But I use Zip-Locs inside to organize so it wasn't a major problem. But the Packa solved all that anyway.