View Full Version : Gear to buy
weathergirl
03-22-2006, 21:57
Hi guys, I'm looking to do some overnight hiking in the future, but I dont' really have any gear, just a decent internal frame backpack. I go to NC State and the outdoor rec program is having a gear swap meet next week. What kind of stuff should I really be looking for good deals on? Of course, there's the obvious stuff like a tent, good sleepingbag, etc. But I'm sure that there are other items that I'm not thinking of that'll be expensive too. Since I'm a student, I'm working on a very limited budget here so I'd like to get the most out of my buck.
Also, what are some issues involved in looking for a good sleepingbag for long distance hiking trips? I know they all have a temp range that they're suited for. I'm looking to buy one that'll be good in most weather conditions.
PS. Sorry, mods, if this isn't a straight forward enough question. I'm new at this :)
Skidsteer
03-22-2006, 22:15
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/article.php?p=132311&postcount=1
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/article.php?p=132370&postcount=1
A place to start.:) :welcome
fiddlehead
03-22-2006, 22:49
20 deg. down sleeping bag. polypro long underwear, frogg toggs. everything else you can make or get cheap at a discount store (like aluminum cook kit, ginsu knife, pepsi bottle, fleece jacket) have fun and remember: you don't need much.
GO PACK!! (class of '04 here)
If you're new to backpacking and want to get some general info, I'd recommend the REI in Cary (by the Best Buy). They were always pretty helpful for me and sometimes its nice to see the stuff people talk about here.
Can you still rent gear from the outdoor rec people? Might be a good way to try stuff out and see what you like?
weathergirl
03-22-2006, 23:28
That's a good idea. I've rented stuff from the outdoor rec office before to camp out for basketball tickets.
Is there a good hiking community to get involved in at State? I signed for the backpacking PE class because it teaches the basic skills and I've never been out on more that a dayhike. But I'd like to get some trips in this summer if I could. I'd like to gain experience but I'm a little hesitant to just head out into the woods.
weathergirl
03-22-2006, 23:29
BTW, what are frogg toggs? ... :o Yeah, I'm pretty new to this.
Skidsteer
03-22-2006, 23:39
BTW, what are frogg toggs? ... :o Yeah, I'm pretty new to this.
Frogg Toggs are a lightweight, breathable, relatively inexpensive rainsuit/ windsuit. Widely available, just google them.
hammock engineer
03-23-2006, 00:02
One thing that helped me is look at gear lists people posted on this site. Just search for gear lists and a lot will come up. One suggestion on going to outfitters (REI), make sure they are selling you want you want. Some places work on commission, so it isn't benifitial for the salesman to sell you something cheaper/lighter.
Check out www.rei.com (http://www.rei.com) (they have a good outlet site)
www.sierratradingpost.com (http://www.sierratradingpost.com)
www.campmor.com (http://www.campmor.com)
www.campsaver.com (http://www.campsaver.com)
www.moosejaw.com (http://www.moosejaw.com)
There are a few more, but these are the ones I have ordered and been happy with. A lot of last year's gear is getting clearenced, so there should be a lot of good deals.
Just Jeff
03-23-2006, 00:35
Great idea - check out gear lists. Maybe even print a few so you have some references when you're shopping. Look at what people carry, and just as importantly at what they're not carrying, and about how much the stuff weighs.
General ideas to keep in mind:
- Pack - 2-4 lbs...shouldn't need to go over 4. You can get under 2, but might not be a good idea for a newbie.
- Shelter - 2-5 lbs for a 1-2 person. Make sure you have a place to put your gear if you get a smaller shelter (like a vestibule)
- Sleeping bag - 1-3 lbs for 20-40F. Might go a little over 3, but only if it's a 15-20F.
Other things you need:
- Google the 10 essentials (map, compass, first aid, etc)
- Rain gear - you don't need the heavy expensive stuff like North Face. Frogg Togg's are popular. (also one of the 10 essentials)
- Cooking gear - a small stove, one spoon, one pot. Probably a windscreen depending on type of stove. Maybe a fork and a frying pan (that doubles as a lid for the pot, hopefully)
- Food. Just get bagels, hard salami, cheese, Lipton's dinners (noodles, rice, etc), maybe a tuna foil pack here and there. No need to get all the prepared freeze-dried specialty meals if you can't afford it.
Things you don't need.
- Expensive 5-7 lbs backpack
- Expensive, heavy hiking boots (unless they're really comfortable and you like them...many people here hike in running shoes or trail runners)
- Pretty much anything else.
Two notes:
- Spend as much as you can afford on a quality pack, shelter and bag (or make your own) - that's where quality really matters and where you can save weight. Beyond that it's just details.
- Stay away from gadgets. You don't need a whole mess of small stuff sacks when ziplocks work better anyway. You don't need a $25 waterproof compression sack for your sleeping bag when a trash bag works just as well. You don't need three Nalgene bottles when a used gatorade or soda bottle does the same thing for free and half the weight. You don't need a trowel to dig a poophole when your heel or a stick works fine...for free and no weight. You don't need a big huge carabiner hanging off your pack, or 200' of rope, or a heavy duty can't be crushed works after nuclear armageddon two pound D-cell flashlight (use a .5 oz LED instead).
Of course, if you want all those things, fine - you're the one buying and carrying them, so find the style that suits you. But for each item in your pack, ask yourself how much you'll actually use it, not just "Well, that'll be nice to have if..." If you don't use it every day or two, and it's not emergency gear, chuck it.
Just my opinion...I'm sure someone will differ. Here's my gear list if you're still reading: http://www.tothewoods.net/GearList.html :welcome
longshank
03-23-2006, 02:11
Some great ultralight shelters and other general gear http://www.prolitegear.com/pl_gl_hex3.html
longshank
03-23-2006, 02:13
You save weight
longshank
03-23-2006, 02:15
you can save weight by getting rid of nalgenes and using platypus bladders. An once here, an once there, soon you've saved a couple of pounds.
sdoownek
03-23-2006, 06:28
Let's also reiterate that gear choices are personal choices. I don't pack the lightest things I can anymore, I'd rather be comfortable.
Diatribe contines at: http://www.frankenhost.com/whiteblaze_gearlist.html
The Solemates
03-23-2006, 10:57
a while back here on WB we had a $300 gear challenge, where people posted lists of all the gear that would be needed for a hike. the caveat was that the grand total spent on this gear had to be under $300. this would be a great place to start for a hiker on a college budget. see if you can do a search and find this subject.
or someone may post it here soon..
The Solemates
03-23-2006, 10:59
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/article.php?p=22959&postcount=1
heres weathercarrot's. i cant find the $300 one.
The item that helps me keep my pack weight down is a scale.You have a reference point on what a new item actually weights.
weathergirl
03-23-2006, 20:55
What's the difference between a shelter and a tent? or is there a difference?
Skidsteer
03-23-2006, 21:15
What's the difference between a shelter and a tent? or is there a difference?
Tent is to shelter what Chevrolet is to automobile.
It is simply a subtype of shelter.
Shelters can include: Tent, tarp, tarp-tent, hammock, bivy, lean-to, tipi, wickiup, etc.
Fundamentally, they(shelters) are a barrier between weather/bugs and you. Very handy devices at times:D .
if your going alone i would suggest a hammock because they are lighter then a (resonabley priced) solo tent and for about 120$ they are really nice
ps and then you can leave the sleeping pad at home and still sleep better then you do at home!
happy hiking
Skidsteer
03-23-2006, 21:31
Here are a few quick search links for you. There are many more of course; I'm just lazy.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13864&highlight=shelter
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13818&highlight=shelter
http://www.tothewoods.net/JeffsHikingPage.html
weathergirl
03-23-2006, 22:32
What are the downsides to using a hammock? Don't you get wet when it rains hard?
Hikerhead
03-23-2006, 22:34
No, they have rain fly or tarps overtop of them.
Skidsteer
03-23-2006, 22:37
What are the downsides to using a hammock? Don't you get wet when it rains hard?
Whoohoogirl! Now you've stepped in it! :D You'll get lots of sage advice to that question. I'm not a hammocker(so far), so I'll step aside.
Jeff, Seeker, Neo, et al. Your turn brothers.;)
weathergirl
03-23-2006, 22:45
Whoohoogirl! Now you've stepped in it! :D You'll get lots of sage advice to that question. I'm not a hammocker(so far), so I'll step aside.
Jeff, Seeker, Neo, et al. Your turn brothers.;)
Haha, I've managed to touch a nerve when I've got less than 20 posts. That's cutting right to it like happy dancing banana. :banana
Just Jeff
03-24-2006, 03:54
SHOOT THAT DAMN BANANA!!
Hammocks are great. Not for everyone, though. (Just the ones who like to sleep at night.)
Downsides - some people can't get comfortable in them. It's a new thing, so you have to learn a new skill set to be comfortable. Can't be hung in the desert or above treeline (but you can still bivy with it in those places). Gotta figure out what to do with your gear (several options here). Takes about 6-8 oz more to stay warm in the cold than a similar ground setup (it's worth it). You'll have to pass by lots of fine campsites until your hiking partners find a flat spot for their tents. You'll have nothing to do after you're set up and your hiking partners are still clearing rocks and sticks from their flat spots (start dinner and laugh at them). Oh, and you have to bite your lip in the morning when the ground dwellers complain about rocks, roots, sliding downhill, mud, drainage through their tents, sore backs, etc.
Seriously - it's just another way of doing things, with its own advantages and disadvantages. For us hammockers, though, it's like seeing the Holy Ghost when you realize how comfortable you can be in the woods in a hammock.
If you're interested, there are several good pages out there, and there's a Yahoo hammockcamping group. Between WB and that group, I don't think there's a hammock problem that can't be fixed.
sdoownek
03-24-2006, 04:22
Not for everyone, though. (Just the ones who like to sleep at night.)
They're also not for people who sleep on their stomachs. I've been asking for years (literally) for a fix for this "problem", and as of yet, nobody has been able to "fix" it. Suggesting that I'll "get over it" or "will learn to sleep on my back" isn't a solution, it's an excuse.
Hammocks. They're great if you can use them, but they're not the holy grail that people make them out to be.
Just Jeff
03-24-2006, 05:02
Here's your fix: http://www.terrelogic.com/about.htm
At some point, any problem could be fixed - just a matter of whether or not the fix is worth the effort for a backpacking hammock. I assume that one is too heavy for most backpackers, but it does fix your problem.
But like I said, hammocks aren't for everyone. The first downside I listed was that some people can't get comfortable in them. If stomach comfort is an important issue for you and you can't do that in a hammock, maybe there are shelters that would fit your style better. (Not trying to sound snide here.)
All shelters have trade-offs...I guess you could call those trade-offs "problems", though. And for the people who can't get comfortable a hammock, I'll concede that those problems cannot be fixed. Most problems (and discomfort) can be fixed with a little effort, though.
As far as stomach sleeping in a backpacking hammock, have you tried getting a bigger hammock? I can't sleep on my stomach in my HH Backpacker, but I can in my homemade Speer. I slide up near the end and roll over...pretty comfy.
Another option - do you use a pad in the hammock? If so, try putting something thick under the middle of the pad to raise up the center - like a full stuffsack or something. That might make it just flat enough to get comfortable on your stomach.
Someone on the Yahoo group also made a hammock where the ends aren't gathered - the sides are cat cut, and the supports run down the whole length of each side. That (theoretically) makes the bottom completely flat, though I never saw a review of how well it worked. There are pics of similar setups on the web if you search.
So there's one fix and three more possibilities. If you decide to test any of them, please post back here (preferably with pics!). :)
sdoownek
03-24-2006, 05:22
Here's your fix: http://www.terrelogic.com/about.htm
That's just a very heavy suspended tent. That's got all the drawbacks and none of the benefits of both worlds!! :)
If stomach comfort is an important issue for you and you can't do that in a hammock, maybe there are shelters that would fit your style better. (Not trying to sound snide here.)
No, not at all. You have to understand that my "snippyness" is primarily based with the "neo"s of your world that proclaim that a hammock will solve all the problems of the world up to and inclusive of cold fusion.
Most problems (and discomfort) can be fixed with a little effort, though.
That's true, but as with everything, at the expense of weight.
As far as stomach sleeping in a backpacking hammock, have you tried getting a bigger hammock?
During the summer, I'm at 15 oz for a shelter, 8 for a pad, and 17 for a bag. If there's a hammock that's big enough to allow me to sleep in comfort for less than 40 ounces, I'll convert and join the praise and worship team and become the new neo. OK, well, that's going too far, but you know what I mean.
Another option - do you use a pad in the hammock? If so, try putting something thick under the middle of the pad to raise up the center - like a full stuffsack or something. That might make it just flat enough to get comfortable on your stomach.
Sort of, until I move, which I'll do. Then I'm bent in the middle in ways that human beings aren't supposed to bend.
Someone on the Yahoo group also made a hammock where the ends aren't gathered - the sides are cat cut, and the supports run down the whole length of each side.
And that weighs how many pounds?
So there's one fix and three more possibilities. If you decide to test any of them, please post back here (preferably with pics!). :)
After trying for the last 3 years to figure it out, I am just one of those that it doesn't work with. I'll stick with my 40oz of comfort.
Also, Jeff, please understand that I recognize that you're one of the more intelligent members of the hammock team. To wit, I offer my respect. There are others among you, however.........
RITBlake
03-24-2006, 05:27
Since I'm a student, I'm working on a very limited budget here so I'd like to get the most out of my buck.
hey, I feel your pain. I think you'd be suprised by how affordable some hiking gear can be. So many people go right to an EMS or an REI and assume its the best place to get suited up. But there are many independent gear companies out there making wicked nice gear, at a great cost. So before you pick up a 6 lb tent or a 6 lb pack at a gear swap, poke around online and check out some market value prices.
and do what I did, pick up an extra job, eat pb&j sandwiches every day for 6 months, and save save save. I was fully equipped in a months time.
Just Jeff
03-24-2006, 06:31
Also, print out a product you find online and see if your local retailer will match the price. Even if he can't match the price, he might give you a good enough discount to buy it there anyway - he makes a sale and gets a rep for good customer service, and you get local service, don't have to wait on shipping, and you keep money in your local community. Everybody wins.
Just Jeff
03-24-2006, 06:54
That's just a very heavy suspended tent. That's got all the drawbacks and none of the benefits of both worlds!! :)
Haha - agreed. But it would let you sleep on your stomach in a hammock. :)
...my "snippyness" is primarily based with the "neo"s of your world that proclaim that a hammock will solve all the problems of the world up to and inclusive of cold fusion.
Cold fusion in a hammock...now there's a new problem to work on...
During the summer, I'm at 15 oz for a shelter, 8 for a pad, and 17 for a bag. If there's a hammock that's big enough to allow me to sleep in comfort for less than 40 ounces, I'll convert and join the praise and worship team and become the new neo. OK, well, that's going too far, but you know what I mean.
Depends on the temps. HH Racer - complete shelter for 15 oz, use the same bag and there are a few 8 oz pads that could give you the coverage you need to be comfortable...probably to 35F or so (that's summer in some places :) )
I bet I could make a down-insulated hammock for 20 oz, add a 7 oz tarp (MacCat Micro, HH stock tarp, or multi-task a poncho), and use a 13 oz quilt and be good to 40F.
Sort of, until I move, which I'll do. Then I'm bent in the middle in ways that human beings aren't supposed to bend.
Maybe I didn't explain it well. When I've had a pillow or stuffsack under a full-length pad, it's stayed there all night - and I always change positions a few times during the night (well, almost always).
And that weighs how many pounds?
His was for sailing and he made it out of canvas...I think it was a few pounds. You could probably use ~10 oz of nylon and 3-4 oz of Spectra to make it work. Maybe that's a bit optimistic - but if it's a good nights sleep, what's it worth? 20 oz? I bet it'll easily come in at less than 20 oz with the right materials.
After trying for the last 3 years to figure it out, I am just one of those that it doesn't work with. I'll stick with my 40oz of comfort.
That's cool - I'm not trying to convert you. If you've tried it and don't like it, that's just more trees for me!
Looks like we're hijacking Weathergirl's thread, though - we should probably start our own if you want to discuss more. Sorry, WG!
weathergirl
03-24-2006, 08:30
hey, I feel your pain. I think you'd be suprised by how affordable some hiking gear can be. So many people go right to an EMS or an REI and assume its the best place to get suited up. But there are many independent gear companies out there making wicked nice gear, at a great cost. So before you pick up a 6 lb tent or a 6 lb pack at a gear swap, poke around online and check out some market value prices.
and do what I did, pick up an extra job, eat pb&j sandwiches every day for 6 months, and save save save. I was fully equipped in a months time.
So does anyone have any recommendations for independent gear companies in the Raleigh area? I've already heard about the Great Provisions company.
weathergirl
03-24-2006, 08:33
Looks like we're hijacking Weathergirl's thread, though - we should probably start our own if you want to discuss more. Sorry, WG!
No problem, and I've executed that banana for you... It looked like a trouble maker :)
The Cheat
03-24-2006, 12:22
Here's the $300 dollar challenge somebody mentioned earlier:
Sgt. Rock also asked that the base weight be below 15 pounds:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5594&highlight=challenge
The Cheat
03-24-2006, 12:27
Weathergirl,
Here's another thread listing suggested gear for a beginner. Mine came in at $261 and 17#.
The Cheat
The Cheat
03-24-2006, 12:28
Weathergirl,
Here's another thread listing suggested gear for a beginner. Mine came in at $261 and 17#.
The Cheat
Would help if I actually included the URL:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=89958#post89958
Sorry. :o
sdoownek
03-24-2006, 13:33
So does anyone have any recommendations for independent gear companies in the Raleigh area? I've already heard about the Great Provisions company.
Hm. I wonder if Cupcake still lives in Raleigh. She's a 2004 gamer that might be able to help you out a bit. Denise Gossett. Look her up in the phone book or call information or something.