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Gambit McCrae
01-28-2021, 13:18
I have stopped researching trail prior to hiking it and it has tremendously improved my experience on trail. Previously while completing my AT section hike from GA to ME I would gather all possible info and data about the section I was about to set out on and unfortunately it took me about 1800 miles to learn that I was ruining a lot of the fun of the hike. I would saturate my brain with every climb, camp spot, mileages, towns, weather for the wear, what the road crossings looked like...EVERYTHING!! And I was hardly ever surprised upon finding what I had researched to death prior to the trip.

Lets go ahead and disclaim an aspect of "planning". I am in no way saying I do not do the research needed to plan accordingly as far as what gear I will need and possible permits/ closures. The type of planning I am describing is "planning my fears". I have been chipping away at the Sheltowee Trace this year and have set out on the 3 trips so far knowing my start and stop locations and overall mileage for the trip - and that's pretty much it. The payoff has been a new sense of adventure and my brain staying more stimulated during the trek.

I am still a user of guthooks but have stopped downloading the photos
Planning to Prepare vs Planning out of Fear...

nsherry61
01-28-2021, 13:40
Wow! Well said. I completely agree. Quit over-planning and just go outside and do it.

Some of my greatest joys have been managing the unexpected, sometimes awkwardly and with a bit of fear, but always with great stories afterwards.

Dropdeadfred
01-28-2021, 14:53
I concur, cant believe all these apps and updated guides and yadda yadda,, jeesh people.
Reminds me of video game walk through guides that describe each and every step

JNI64
01-28-2021, 15:35
So you've decided to work on your OCD as a new years resolution that's awesome ;) !!

But seriously I agree 100 % . I've done this as well and try not to, it's nice leaving some surprises.

Seatbelt
01-28-2021, 16:37
Reminds me of something Nimblewill Nomad said in his book about halfway thru his epic IAT trek. He quit looking at his elevation profile just so it would always be a surprise to him.
I am the same as you--probably overplan my section hikes, but I have not yet been able to shake the habit.

Odd Man Out
01-28-2021, 20:01
One clever bit of advice I have seen posted here a few times seems to align with this philosophy:

Write out a detailed day-by-day plan for your hike on notebook paper and then use it as firestarter on your first night.

Dogwood
01-28-2021, 23:30
Beats planning out every trail bar, cell ph reception dead zones, and water stop pre 2000 mile hike. Let the good times roll. Won't you let the good times roll.

cmoulder
01-29-2021, 08:54
I like this.

Harkens back to many trips in the winter Whites before cellphones and GPS and internet availability of the most minuscule data points. Had topo maps and compass (and the skill to use them) and a weather forecast. Rescue plan was self-extraction, or in a real SHTF situation to send somebody out to summon help.

Definitely learned a lot things that still serve us well to this day. The most important of which is knowing when it's time to turn back.

Slo-go'en
01-29-2021, 10:19
Reminds me of my first LASH hikes on the AT back in AT8 and AT9, (1988 and 1989) all I had for info was the ATC Data Book. It simply listed the mileage between shelters and roads. The town information was sparse. For example,

VA28 PEARSIBURG, VA P.O. 24134....R,G,L,M
(P.O., G,M 1m E. R,L 2m E)

Then when you got there, you wandered around looking for the R, G, L and M. I didn't carry any maps as the maps at the time were pretty much useless. I did carry a state road map for VA, mostly to mark my progress through the state. It definitely added to the adventure of discovery.

foodbag
01-29-2021, 10:40
Technology is a great enabler, and also a thief when it comes to stealing the mystery from things. In 1999 I went out with just a Wingfoot guidebook and somehow everything worked out. Come to think of it, everything seemed to work out in "the old days". However, I am posting this message with ease from my very first smartphone. I think I'll keep it....

peakbagger
01-29-2021, 10:56
I remember the debates regarding Wingfoots guides as they were far more detailed then the data book or the Philosphers Guide. He actually cut back some of his descriptions of trail magic spots as the people who were doing it were being overwhelmed.

There have been debates when the first thru hiker will die walking off a cliff while reading their cell phones detailed route instructions;)

Then again Avery who was editor of the first several editions of the AT guide to Maine was accused of given to much information but given that the trail mostly existed on private land subject to logging there was not a lot of choice to give a lot of detail.

lonehiker
01-29-2021, 11:18
A couple of the people who responded to this thread are the very same people that enable those that over plan. A bit ironic...

Dan Roper
01-29-2021, 11:26
When it comes to backpacking the AT, I've done just about everything wrong. I don't have a cellphone/smartphone. No GPS or Guthooks. No ear buds or electronic entertainment. I use an external frame pack and a single, worn hiking stick (durable dogwood). To this point, all my trips have been in summer or autumn and in the South, where the only trail magic I've encountered was a plastic bag full of fresh garden vegetables hanging on a tree near Iron Mountain Gap in Tennessee (for trail magic, a big cucumber and a pepper are...not as exciting as a burger and cold drink). I carry a book to read (I somehow lost my copy of Alistair MacLean's Ice Station Zebra at the end of my last trip, somewhere near Bland, VA). I carry the ATC trail book and elevation profile for the section I'm hiking and love reading it prior to every trip...but, as the military says, "No plan survives contact with the enemy" (IE, a hiking plan generally goes out the window on day 1). I sure do enjoy backpacking this way and don't plan to change anything, though there are times when a phone (to arrange shuttles) and Guthooks (where's a good tent site?) would certainly be convenient. I concur with Gambit's thinking.

Deadeye
01-29-2021, 11:27
A couple of the people who responded to this thread are the very same people that enable those that over plan. A bit ironic...
That could apply to this entire site!

I try to keep my "planning" to using a map and being confident I have enough time and food to make it from point a to point b. Unfortunately, if somebody is going to pick you up at point b at a certain time, there is some planning necessary to be sure you're there on time.

soilman
01-29-2021, 11:40
I mentioned this several years ago that it seems like some of the adventure has been been eliminated by all the detailed information available today. Forty-five years ago all we had was the Mileage Facts publication. The trail was being relocated all the time in the quest for protection you often didn't know what to expect.

BlackCloud
01-29-2021, 11:54
I like surprises, but I also get upset when I miss a historical point of interest or a side trail overlook b/c I didn't read the ATC guidebook for that section....

Pinnah
01-29-2021, 12:48
Go to Google Books and search for
"Backpacker Magazine February 1991"

https://books.google.com/books?id=meIDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=backpacker+magazine+February+1991&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiyp7bvysHuAhWnFVkFHea4A0AQ6AEwAXoECAIQA g#v=onepage&q=backpacker%20magazine%20February%201991&f=false

Once you find that issue, look for the article "The Case for Primeval Wilderness" by Dave Foreman.

He argues that there should be some wild places that are left unmapped so that we can encounter them on their own terms.

I'm not recommending this approach necessarily, but the essay is well worth reading and considering.

Night Train
01-29-2021, 12:50
Two thumbs up, Gambit. Great perspective.

Deadeye
01-29-2021, 14:56
He argues that there should be some wild places that are left unmapped so that we can encounter them on their own terms.


might be too late for that already, but you don't have to go far to find places that are untrailed

smithjv
01-29-2021, 15:13
I for one agree with the old military axiom "Plans are useless; planning is invaluable".
I actually get almost as much fun out of planning a section hike as I do the actual hike. But like a previous poster said, no plan survives first contact with the enemy (unplanned events). So I plan to continue to vicariously hike at my desk/computer and hopefully follow it up with the actual one foot after the other . . .

Gambit McCrae
01-29-2021, 15:24
I for one agree with the old military axiom "Plans are useless; planning is invaluable".
I actually get almost as much fun out of planning a section hike as I do the actual hike. But like a previous poster said, no plan survives first contact with the enemy (unplanned events). So I plan to continue to vicariously hike at my desk/computer and hopefully follow it up with the actual one foot after the other . . .

I really like the way you word this. I still do the same. Hike from my desk lol but I do not ingrain the info for upcoming hikes so that there aren't surprises.

Traffic Jam
01-29-2021, 16:22
I have the opposite problem. I’m such a crappy planner, it’s always a surprise when a hike goes smoothly. :)

OTOH, it’s taught me to be flexible and to make decisions on the fly...and to not get too bogged down in the details.

rickb
01-29-2021, 16:30
I would add that there are no off-trail waterfalls, views, hostels, AYCE’s or towns that are “must sees” on the AT.

rmitchell
01-30-2021, 09:28
i like surprises, but i also get upset when i miss a historical point of interest or a side trail overlook b/c i didn't read the atc guidebook for that section....

^^^this^^^

Traveler
01-30-2021, 09:56
FWIW - To paraphrase an old adage "no plan provides any certainty beyond first contact". I have seen the effects of over planned hikers through the years, my guess is many here have also seen them. They appear to be on a train-like timetable schedule to the point where minutes count, as soon as they arrive at a view or feature they want to push on to the next point of interest in their plan, and the next, ad infinitum. Their pace is fast, their intent solely on the next feature in their plan. I have seen people in camp watching videos of the trail section they will do the following day, which to me makes little sense.

I enjoy the serendipity that accompanies hiking and consider it to be part of the experience. Though I will do some some planning, it tends to be minimal like clothing needs, what shelter gear to bring, and determine resupply. More to the point, I typically carry a trail map (or topo map if no trail map is available) for basic navigation, get an idea where I can expect to find water, where legal camping areas are, or gauging resupply points.

Beyond a simple level of planning I leave each day to present what that day wants to provide for adventure, challenges, misery, or surprises, preferring to be the guy who sees and photos the moose along a pond edge than being the guy who missed it trying to reach a waypoint.

colorado_rob
01-30-2021, 10:16
Yeah, I used to be an "over-planner", and I agree overall with that's it's nice and more satisfying just to let it flow a bit.

However: what IS nice about planning is just the fact that it's a bit of fun to plan, even knowing that the grand plan will surely change radically.

Detailed planning is a virtual preview of a big upcoming hike, especially this time of year when there are sooooooo many possibilities for relatively near term spring/summer long hikes. For example, I'm waffling right now between hitting the CDT this spring, or finally trying the Hayduke challenge. And, doing the Hayduke pretty much necessitates doing more planning than most hikes (water caches, etc).

The next time I accompany my wife for a 500 mile LASH on the AT (she's got two ~500 miles sections to complete) we will do precisely zero planning, other than how to get to the starting trailhead. We won't even bother to plan the return logistics/flight.

The bottom line, I agree overall that over-planning is silly, but still, it's a bit of fun.

rickb
01-30-2021, 11:56
Another way to plan is to learn something more about the history, and natural history, on and along the Trail before heading out.

From the Trail of Tears to Audie Murphy and Shays’ Rebellion, to veeries and white-throated sparrows and spruce grouse, to porcupine scat to Harpers Ferry and Earl Shaffer to Governor Baxter and to box turtles and the North Star plenty out there.

I will be the first to admit that I hiked with blinders on to all that, and missed a lot (and a lot of context) as a result.

lonehiker
01-30-2021, 12:24
Another way to plan is to learn something more about the history, and natural history, on and along the Trail before heading out.

From the Trail of Tears to Audie Murphy and Shays’ Rebellion,

In 08 I missed the Audie Murphy ceremony by about an hour. As I was walking up the road all these vehicles were going by me on what I thought was a closed road. I had no clue what was going on. Still got a little bit of trail magic though.

Water Rat
01-31-2021, 12:47
What works for one, doesn't necessarily work for all. Doesn't make it right, or wrong...it just means people do what works best for them, for their hike (in this instance).

"Planning to Prepare vs Planning out of Fear" can be one and the same to the novice backpacker. They have questions, but don't yet have the experience and confidence to know they are planning to alleviate their fears. As one gains more experience and confidence with backpacking/their own backpacking needs, their planning style will evolve to suit what they need to make their trip enjoyable.

One person's over-planning might just be another person's style of doing things. I like to know the history of places I go. I like to learn about the possibilities of things I can see/do along the way. Some think this is over-planning...or might take away from adventure. For me, my research tends to enhance my adventures, not take away from the adventure itself.

It is all about perspective.

TexasBob
01-31-2021, 13:28
Another way to plan is to learn something more about the history, and natural history, on and along the Trail before heading out.

From the Trail of Tears to Audie Murphy and Shays’ Rebellion, to veeries and white-throated sparrows and spruce grouse, to porcupine scat to Harpers Ferry and Earl Shaffer to Governor Baxter and to box turtles and the North Star plenty out there.

I will be the first to admit that I hiked with blinders on to all that, and missed a lot (and a lot of context) as a result.

I wish I had done this more often. It would have made my trips more meaningful.

hobbs
01-31-2021, 22:46
s When I hiked Georgia to virginia Daleville be specific. I had the at Guide and Gutthooks apps. I didnt really have a plan. I just ent to georgia by bus sstayed at hiker inn then went hiking.Never used gutthooks. Just the ATGuide. It was a great trip I did this in fall of 2015. Probably pick up this year and head north with just the AT guide and a phone to keep my family informed where I am and it will be alright. No over planning Just get what I need and Knock out about a months worth of hiking,..FGO as far as I can while I can till I have to go back to work,,,,

Miner
02-01-2021, 00:13
If I was section hiking, how would I know how to get to the trail or get off if I didn't research it? Just stick out my thumb and tell the driver to take me to the AT at the airport?

Planning a hike is how some of us keep sane during the winter months. I don't know what level of planning some of you are doing, but at least in my case I don't find it takes away from my hike. When I hiked the PCT many years ago, I took a few side trips only a few miles off trail that no one I hiked around had any idea what they missed. Only took a small amount of researching to find out. I do find that a lot of hikers rely on knowledge from other hikers, who probably got it from looking it up ahead of time.

Just saying, not all plans are useless. If you are talking about planning every shelter you are camping at, then yes, I agree that is pointless and stop doing it. But planning out resupply towns for the next 2-3 weeks (not all are equal) to minimize the amount of food carried and whether or not you are likely to be there on a weekend when the post office is closed, is a good thing to know, if you are using a bounce box or expecting a package from home. Yes, having flexibility to adjust things on the fly is good, but having some knowledge ahead of time makes the process much easier when it becomes necessary.

I think there is a happy medium between praying the trail gods will work it all out somehow and planning every step of the way.

Seatbelt
02-02-2021, 11:21
I like to know the history of places I go. I like to learn about the possibilities of things I can see/do along the way.

Not doing this has caused me to re-hike certain areas later to see what I missed the first time. :(

Gambit McCrae
02-02-2021, 12:07
If I was section hiking, how would I know how to get to the trail or get off if I didn't research it? Just stick out my thumb and tell the driver to take me to the AT at the airport?

Planning a hike is how some of us keep sane during the winter months. I don't know what level of planning some of you are doing, but at least in my case I don't find it takes away from my hike. When I hiked the PCT many years ago, I took a few side trips only a few miles off trail that no one I hiked around had any idea what they missed. Only took a small amount of researching to find out. I do find that a lot of hikers rely on knowledge from other hikers, who probably got it from looking it up ahead of time.

Just saying, not all plans are useless. If you are talking about planning every shelter you are camping at, then yes, I agree that is pointless and stop doing it. But planning out resupply towns for the next 2-3 weeks (not all are equal) to minimize the amount of food carried and whether or not you are likely to be there on a weekend when the post office is closed, is a good thing to know, if you are using a bounce box or expecting a package from home. Yes, having flexibility to adjust things on the fly is good, but having some knowledge ahead of time makes the process much easier when it becomes necessary.

I think there is a happy medium between praying the trail gods will work it all out somehow and planning every step of the way.

Like with most things, some level of common sense has to be used.

JPritch
02-04-2021, 01:48
I planned every single detail of my very first AT section out of Amicolola 4 years ago. After the second night my plans were out the window. I realized that level of planning was useless and now simply plan my Point A, Point B, food carry and my travel logistics and that's about it. I try my hardest to avoid looking at any pictures of the areas I am about to hike. I don't really care about elevation as I've accepted long ago that you will climb no matter where you hike the AT. The mental gymnastics some folks go through in order to minimize elevation gain on a trip is amusing.

I often think about the folks who hiked the AT decades ago. Hitting the balds of Roan or walking out onto McAfee Knob not knowing about either, just a total surprise. Must have been awe inspiring!

One Half
02-04-2021, 08:41
I like this.

Harkens back to many trips in the winter Whites before cellphones and GPS and internet availability of the most minuscule data points. Had topo maps and compass (and the skill to use them) and a weather forecast. Rescue plan was self-extraction, or in a real SHTF situation to send somebody out to summon help.

Definitely learned a lot things that still serve us well to this day. The most important of which is knowing when it's time to turn back.

While I never hiked in the winter I did do most of my hiking in the Whites until moving south. I always carried a detailed map of the area so in case I needed to bail out I could find a quicker route out than what was maybe the original plan. Like instead of going overmountain, finding a side trail that would get me down and out of the weather, or get to help, quicker. The good ole days when you would get out to the trail and the only noises you would hear were "natural" unless you were too close to a highway when you camped at night and the sound of the vehicles made it up the mountains!

Man, Gambit, I thought I was a planner! I like to start planning well in advance. In 2017/18 I "announced" my intentions to attempt a thru of the AT in 2022 here on WB! But no, I don't plan every step or research the trail to see what it looks like or try to memorize camp spots etc.

I do like/need to plan how and where I am getting to the trail and get off the trail. And I usually have a "goal" distance but I also have a backup plan for getting off the trail. So I might plan a 200 mile section for the time I have to hike but then figure out if I'm not "making the miles needed" I know I can slow down and knock off 20/30 miles from that goal and know approximately how I will get off trail in the same amount of time. For most hikes my limitation has been how long I can be out there, not necessarily how far I can get. I do plan meal drops ahead. I won't have to in the future as my husband will be mobile, working remotely, while I hike and he "follows" me up the trail. I generally like to look at the next days hiking the night before using a map and/or data/guide book to decide if I should get an early start or just take my time leaving camp. I also like to plan how much water I need to leave camp with. If I can get to the next water with 1L instead of 2L, I will usually do that. Likewise if water is scarce I might camel up in the morning and carry an extra Liter or 2 or whatever is necessary. (I can actually carry 6L)

I do like to know if there are things to see slightly off trail and may spend my winter months "highlighting" them in my data book or making notes somewhere so I don't miss them.

Traffic Jam
02-04-2021, 09:28
Wow, I’m in awe of all you planners, I should try to do better.

When I plan a trip, I decide where to go, get a rough idea of mileage, gather some maps, read a few trail descriptions, figure out where I’m going to park, how I’m getting back to my car, then pack and look at the weather forecast the day before...that’s about it. Sometimes I try to map it out on Gaia or Garmin but usually get too frustrated.

For day hikes, I normally wake up and think, I feel like hiking today...grab my bag, food, and some maps and start driving, deciding on my destination as I drive.

I’ve had some crazy adventures due to my spontaneous and lackadaisical habits. I also make a crappy hiking partner.

LittleRock
02-04-2021, 10:25
I've done most of my section hikes by arranging for a shuttle pickup at the END of my hike, specifying the date/time in advance. I've done this about a dozen times now for hikes of 1-2 weeks and never been late for a pickup.

But, by doing it this way I have to plan carefully. I study the terrain, plan mileages conservatively, and carefully choose shelters/campsites so I don't end up in a bind. Most of the time I'm able to keep my schedule, at most I've gotten 1/2 day ahead or behind. Getting ahead isn't a big deal, but getting behind it can be challenging to make up the extra miles later.

I used Guthooks for the first time on my last trip and was extremely pleased. The ability to find campsites that aren't listed in the guidebooks alone made it worth the money. That being said, I didn't bother downloading the waypoint photos as that felt like cheating.

JPritch
02-05-2021, 00:11
@LittleRock why not park your car at the end and get a shuttle to the beginning of your hike? Takes all that worry of making the arranged rendezvous off your shoulders.

Bubblehead
02-05-2021, 10:39
I enjoy researching the trail, gear, etc...and watching hikers youtube videos. I am really trying to "lighten my load" this year. I have my base weight down to 13 pounds. It keeps me going thru the winter months. I'm currently watching Quicksand's 2019 SOBO thru hike...am really enjoying it. He does a great job with his videos.
I paid special attention to his hiking from Katahdin to Crawford Notch, since I am planning on finishing the trail up there starting late July this year.

LittleRock
02-05-2021, 12:23
@LittleRock why not park your car at the end and get a shuttle to the beginning of your hike? Takes all that worry of making the arranged rendezvous off your shoulders.
Good question. I've done both in the past and I think there are pros and cons to each.

For example, 2 years ago I did park my car at the end of my hike and shuttle to the beginning. It was a 7 hour drive to the pickup point and when I arrived I really wasn't looking forward to sitting in another vehicle for 2 hours. Also this caused me to start at dusk and walk a mile in the dark to my first campsite. My schedule ended up being constrained anyway because I had to hike fast enough to make it to my resupply point on Saturday, because it was closed on Sunday. However as you said it is always very nice to have your car waiting at the end.

Last year, I chose to shuttle at the end because my biggest fear was riding in the car with a stranger during COVID. I figured it was better to risk getting the virus at the end, when I was going home, than at the beginning, when I'd be on the trail. Also since my plan is to section hike the entire trail NOBO, for the northern half of the trail shuttling at the end saves me a couple hours of extra driving. The downside was having to pull a couple of long days (hiking sunrise to sunset) toward the end to make it to the pickup point on time.