100g Jetboil canisters vs 110g others

[HankIV]

Any performance difference? REI shows a .4oz weight delta or 6%, same price.

Seems like you’d want to steer towards other brands than JB, even if you like their stoves.

Next size up all three brands they sell have slight variations. MSR would seem to have best fuel to weight ratio there.

I understand most are all made/filled in South Korea or Texas.

I also understand in many resupply spots you just take the one brand on offer. But if you had a choice, is there any difference?

Any variation in fuel quality also?

[cmoulder]

I'm not a "stove expert" per se but I have done a fair amount of stove testing. Personally, I'd get the canisters that contain a bit more fuel.

However, there is another factor that to me is more important, which is how well, and how, your stove mates with the screw threads and Lindal valve on the stove. This can vary a lot depending on what stove and what canister is being used, but you'll notice that sometimes there is a lot of hissing and fuel lost while screwing/unscrewing some stoves from some canisters, and very little with others. This is caused by very tiny variations in the thread depth of both stove and canister, and the length of the pin on the stove that opens the Lindal valve. Additionally, with some canister/stove combos you have to really crank it down tight to get a good seal, which in the long term might have some effect on stove thread wear. This is especially true with something like the BRS-3000T which has threads cut straight into the stove body and not a brass insert like most higher-quality stoves.

Personally, for the JB and BRS and SnowPeak Giga (the original one) I've been using Primus canisters for a long time with neither of the problems mentioned above. I also refill Primus canisters with N-butane but that is another discussion. There are so many other stove/canister combos out there that it is impossible to tell you which canisters work best with which stoves, so it's a rare situation where asking folks for their anecdotal experiences might actually be best. In this regard, for me MSR is the worst. But again, YMMV... wildly.

Most of the "3-season" blends are a mix of about 20-25% propane and 75-80% isobutane and then for "summer" blends they'll add in a little n-butane, which obviously affects the other percentages, but not a lot. Some so-called "winter" blends might have up to 30% propane and the rest isobutane. HOWEVER, the propane usually burns off first and in very cold weather you'll find that the pressure drop will seriously degrade the performance of all blends, so when fuel runs low in ANY canister you'll need some sort of external heat source like a water bath or the technique that is near and dear to my heart, The Moulder Strip (https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/135520-What-canister-mix-has-best-cold-weather-performance-with-BRS?p=2259996&viewfull=1#post2259996). :)

[blackmagic]

JetBoil's canister fuel blend is proprietary and they claim it works "best" with their stoves, though other canister fuel mixes will generally also work. Likewise, JetBoil (and other) fuel will work with MSR stoves, but they'd like you to use MSR fuel.

One brand's blend is optimized for their particular stoves, but that is going to be true under laboratory testing conditions, and the efficiency differences are, in my non-scientific opinion, minimal.

When you're out "in the field", there are so many other factors and variables at play that it really doesn't matter. Use JetBoil fuel with a JetBoil stove if it's available, otherwise use what's available.

[cmoulder]

they claim it works "best" with their stoves,

Not directed at you, of course, but this is straight-up LOL marketing baloney whether JB or MSR or anybody else.

As long as it's warm enough for the fuel to vaporize, you're in business.

Early in my canister stove self-education and experiments I figured out that all these "secret" seasonal blends were nothing more than playing with the percentages of propane and fiddling with isobutane and n-butane ratios. Which mean practically nothing once the stove has been running for a short while. Once you get past that, you can get on to what really makes them work, and when they're sluggish or stop the answer is always some sort of external heat.

Regulators are also pretty much a joke, BTW. They permit more fuel flow as the canister contents cool, but it quickly reaches a point where it's so cold that the regulator isn't regulating anything because there isn't enough pressure. So my canned comment about that is that regulators work in a very narrow range, below which they don't work and above which they aren't needed.

[Starchild]

I've used my JB will all sorts of fuels, they all work about the same, very consistant boil time and fuel amount. The only difference is when it comes to cold weather performance. So yes I will grab that extra 10% when I can, but if not it's no biggie.

But also consider how you use your canisters, if you don't refill them, how low do you take your backpacking ones and what do you do with the extra fuel that's too little to pack. So lets say your the type of person who buys a new one every time and it comes back more then 50% full, then the less fuel is fine, and lighter to carry.

[cmoulder]

I've used my JB will all sorts of fuels, they all work about the same, very consistant boil time and fuel amount. The only difference is when it comes to cold weather performance. So yes I will grab that extra 10% when I can, but if not it's no biggie.

But also consider how you use your canisters, if you don't refill them, how low do you take your backpacking ones and what do you do with the extra fuel that's too little to pack. So lets say your the type of person who buys a new one every time and it comes back more then 50% full, then the less fuel is fine, and lighter to carry.
You can use some sort of canister fuel transfer device (https://www.amazon.com/Plus-Canister-Shifter-Adapter-Function/dp/B00U2EE6M2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1477961535&sr=8-1&keywords=G-WORKS&linkCode=sl1&tag=andrskur-20&linkId=f9849b71bc555bf4d0d97504ad3cb7ff), for either canister-to-canister or from cheap N-butane cartridge-to-canister.

[colorado_rob]

Not directed at you, of course, but this is straight-up LOL marketing baloney whether JB or MSR or anybody else.

As long as it's warm enough for the fuel to vaporize, you're in business.

Early in my canister stove self-education and experiments I figured out that all these "secret" seasonal blends were nothing more than playing with the percentages of propane and fiddling with isobutane and n-butane ratios. Which mean practically nothing once the stove has been running for a short while. Once you get past that, you can get on to what really makes them work, and when they're sluggish or stop the answer is always some sort of external heat.

Regulators are also pretty much a joke, BTW. They permit more fuel flow as the canister contents cool, but it quickly reaches a point where it's so cold that the regulator isn't regulating anything because there isn't enough pressure. So my canned comment about that is that regulators work in a very narrow range, below which they don't work and above which they aren't needed.Agree 100%, and thanks cmoulder for all the other info on cannister stoves (lots of threads going on!).

FWIW, when I did all my stove/cannister testing about 10 years ago now (I was really trying to shave the grams then), two little tidbits:

I found that full cannisters of the same brand had weight differences of up 0.2 ounces (5 grams). No biggie, just a curiosity, but it pretty much had to be fuel load differences.

I also found that completely empty cannisters of various brands had a bit of scatter too, maybe 0.1 ounces scatter, but pretty much all weighed the same brand-to-brand.

So, I concluded that might as well carry the 110 gram vs. 100 gram canisters on long hikes, and the same deal with the larger "8 oz" canisters.... the MSR brand says "227 grams" vs. some that say "210 or 220 grams". I carry the larger canisters with I'm with my wife, we can get over a week with them (and we're very big hot-water users, lot of coffee/tea/etc).

One other little point, I don't know about you guys, but last summer, I ran out of cannister fuel and REI had empty shelves, as did other stores in my area, I had to get whatever I could find, actually used my old liquid fuel stove for one trip as I was completely out of canister fuel. Our nearby REI did start stocking JB canisters finally, and I stocked up. Life is rough ya know!

[cmoulder]

Agree 100%, and thanks cmoulder for all the other info on cannister stoves (lots of threads going on!).

FWIW, when I did all my stove/cannister testing about 10 years ago now (I was really trying to shave the grams then), two little tidbits:

I found that full cannisters of the same brand had weight differences of up 0.2 ounces (5 grams). No biggie, just a curiosity, but it pretty much had to be fuel load differences.

I also found that completely empty cannisters of various brands had a bit of scatter too, maybe 0.1 ounces scatter, but pretty much all weighed the same brand-to-brand.

So, I concluded that might as well carry the 110 gram vs. 100 gram canisters on long hikes, and the same deal with the larger "8 oz" canisters.... the MSR brand says "227 grams" vs. some that say "210 or 220 grams". I carry the larger canisters with I'm with my wife, we can get over a week with them (and we're very big hot-water users, lot of coffee/tea/etc).

One other little point, I don't know about you guys, but last summer, I ran out of cannister fuel and REI had empty shelves, as did other stores in my area, I had to get whatever I could find, actually used my old liquid fuel stove for one trip as I was completely out of canister fuel. Our nearby REI did start stocking JB canisters finally, and I stocked up. Life is rough ya know!
The n-butane cartridges that are found at nearly all Asian supermarkets can be used to refill using the G-Works (and there are others) devices I linked above.

I've tested straight n-butane down to -5°F using the copper strip with BRS and it works fine down to the last molecule. However, given its high vapor temp (33°F) you must start with a warm canister, and use a small canister because a large one is just too much of a heat sink to sustain the thermal feedback loop.

[cmoulder]

And all true about the canister weight and fill variations... I've weighed completely empty canisters and the 100-110g (fuel) canisters weigh within a gram or 2 of 100g, and the same for ~220g which are right around 150g.

Another little tidbit is not to overfill when refilling. It's tempting and can be done but there needs to be a bit of 'headroom' inside the canister for expansion. Not a problem when it's cold, but a canister left in a hot car can explode. Even then, it is STILL is very unlikely to start a fire in the absence of some sort of spark, but it could cause damage and make it very inconvenient if that's your resupply!

[CalebJ]

I've tested straight n-butane down to -5°F using the copper strip with BRS and it works fine down to the last molecule. However, given its high vapor temp (33°F) you must start with a warm canister, and use a small canister because a large one is just too much of a heat sink to sustain the thermal feedback loop.
Would a neoprene sleeve wrapped around the canister over the strip be helpful in keeping it warm as you cook?

[colorado_rob]

Would a neoprene sleeve wrapped around the canister over the strip be helpful in keeping it warm as you cook? Cmoulder will have a more complete, tested answer, but my quick answer is that no, cozy's around cannisters don't help much, depending on conditions though.

The main reason the canister gets cold is because gas is expanding from them (pv=nRT), which would dominate the chilling vs. the cold from the ambient air. In extremely cold (0F or so), and the canister starts out warm, a cozy might help a bit.

[CalebJ]

Thanks. I was afraid of that, but didn't have any experience to confirm.

[cmoulder]

My experience with cozies:

They help — especially with the larger canisters — when the ambient temp is below 20°F because performance drop-off can be noticed fairly quickly even with commercial blends containing significant propane, and especially when the fuel level drops below 50%, and much more important as fuel level and ambient temp drops. I've used 3mm neoprene and 3/8" EVA foam for cozies and they both work well.

Testing at -5°F with straight N-butane...

47257 47258

And the conclusion drawn from all my testing...

47259

[cmoulder]

The cozy can also be compatible with the JB stabilizer legs.

47260

In use at about 4°F IIRC...

47261

[zelph]

That's right.....we don't need no stinkin propane. Give me a dependable, ultralight alcohol stove


https://youtu.be/6kcyj_nYS1A

[colorado_rob]

My experience with cozies:

They help — especially with the larger canisters — when the ambient temp is below 20°F because performance drop-off can be noticed fairly quickly even with commercial blends containing significant propane, and especially when the fuel level drops below 50%, and much more important as fuel level and ambient temp drops. I've used 3mm neoprene and 3/8" EVA foam for cozies and they both work well.

Testing at -5°F with straight N-butane...

47257 47258


Yeah, with that heat-recirculation bar, a cozy would work as it helps retain the heat transferred down the bar. In my statement earlier that they don't do much assumed no bar, meaning no source of heat inside the cozy.

ONE of these days I'm going to try one of those heat recirculation bars! I'm seen others use them with great success. I've just been lazy.

[cmoulder]

Yeah, with that heat-recirculation bar, a cozy would work as it helps retain the heat transferred down the bar. In my statement earlier that they don't do much assumed no bar, meaning no source of heat inside the cozy.

ONE of these days I'm going to try one of those heat recirculation bars! I'm seen others use them with great success. I've just been lazy.
Sorry I forgot to respond earlier, but this is exactly right. Absent a heat shunt or other external heat source the cozy isn't going to do a lot... perhaps slightly retard the heat loss with very low ambient temperatures, but the vaporization inside the canister (google "state change"!) will quickly negate any heat retained by a cozy. This is why nearly-empty canisters can sometimes have a frosty coating on the outside on a warm, humid day.