View Full Version : Free-Standing tent recommendations
Dan Roper
02-12-2021, 11:19
I'm looking for a durable, fairly lightweight freestanding one- or two-person tent for solo section hikes, mainly on the AT, mainly in warmer months, mainly a few days to a few weeks in duration.
I've been using an REI Trail Dome for 20 years. We loved it; it could sleep three; we divided the weight. It's worn out and my two sons no longer backpack with me. So I'm ready to move to something smaller and lighter.
I don't use trekking poles (and won't; I prefer my stout dogwood staff), so the tent must be freestanding (IE, no poles required for setup). Money is not decisive but is important. $200 to $300 would be great but if by far the best choices are more, I'd consider going higher.
I've done enough research to see that Big Agnes products are highly thought of. And I think the MSR Hubba is a good candidate.
The biggest thing seems to be that most of the ultralight products don't have a tub bottom and thus need the benefit of a separate tarp. All things considered, I prefer the tub for durability. If it really proved durable, I'd likely backpack without a footprint. But if the very, very best way to go is UL, no tub, footprint, I'll do it.
I've done enough research now that I'm overwhelmed with info, options, reviews, uncertainties.
Last fall, my wife picked up a Eureka bivy with fiberglass poles for $10 at a yard sale. You can't beat that price, and I'm not picky, so I took it. It was okay but heavy condensation and the poles shredded after the first use. I'd consider a bivy but only if a decided majority of the informed folks on WhiteBlaze said "best option, hands down." I prefer the design and room of a freestanding, though, and lean towards it.
Any thoughts from you folks?
There are so many good options on the market these days. A lot of it comes down to your budget, how much space you really need inside, and durability questions. I'm not prepared to put down the money required for a modern DCF tent in the $500+ range, but there are some amazing options if you are that can get you below 2 pounds. Big Agnes and Nemo offer the Hornet, Tiger Wall, and similar options that get below 3 pounds for a fairly conventional tent with dual doors. I recently purchased a Sierra Designs Meteor Lite 2 and have been very impressed with it. Around 3.5 pounds, but for that you get basically vertical side walls and good vestibules for each occupant. As you suggested, the MSR Hubba line is another good choice in the traditional tent mindset.
Dan Roper
02-12-2021, 12:30
Thank you, Caleb. I'll look at the others you mentioned.
What is "DCF"?
Dyneema composite fabric, previously known as cuben fiber.
Kittyslayer
02-12-2021, 13:05
My wife was tent shopping over the holidays.
When we backpack I sleep with a tarp/bivy so generally she has the tent all to herself. Current tent is an REI Half Dome which is a bit heavy when I sherpa it for her. Goal was to get closer to the 3# range. She prefers a two person tent so she can spread out her stuff and if absolutely necessary for survival I could sleep inside with her. Based on recommendations, research, and personal preferences she narrowed it down to two tents:
Tarptent Double Rainbow ~ Good recommendations and she liked this tent. Setup looked like it had a little learning curve but once you had your method down you should be good to go. Not freestanding unless you use a hiking pole at both ends, but can normally be setup without the use of poles by simply using tent stakes at the corners. She is a bit OCD about moisture and felt the potential condensation of a single wall tent would bother her.
Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 ~ Similar features to our current tent but at a lighter weight. Evaluate if you could take advantage of the awning with just your staff and tying off a corner to a tree. Just purchased this week and will be setting it up in our living room early Sunday morning for her Birthday/Valentine present. Hope the bears don't raid the candy I put inside.
We had considered the REI Quarter Dome SL2 since we had been so pleased with our Half Dome, but the website says this tent is no longer available.
I'm looking for a durable, fairly lightweight freestanding one- or two-person tent for solo section hikes, mainly on the AT, mainly in warmer months, mainly a few days to a few weeks in duration.
I've been using an REI Trail Dome for 20 years. We loved it; it could sleep three; we divided the weight. It's worn out and my two sons no longer backpack with me. So I'm ready to move to something smaller and lighter.
I don't use trekking poles (and won't; I prefer my stout dogwood staff), so the tent must be freestanding (IE, no poles required for setup). Money is not decisive but is important. $200 to $300 would be great but if by far the best choices are more, I'd consider going higher.
I've done enough research to see that Big Agnes products are highly thought of. And I think the MSR Hubba is a good candidate.
The biggest thing seems to be that most of the ultralight products don't have a tub bottom and thus need the benefit of a separate tarp. All things considered, I prefer the tub for durability. If it really proved durable, I'd likely backpack without a footprint. But if the very, very best way to go is UL, no tub, footprint, I'll do it.
I've done enough research now that I'm overwhelmed with info, options, reviews, uncertainties.
Last fall, my wife picked up a Eureka bivy with fiberglass poles for $10 at a yard sale. You can't beat that price, and I'm not picky, so I took it. It was okay but heavy condensation and the poles shredded after the first use. I'd consider a bivy but only if a decided majority of the informed folks on WhiteBlaze said "best option, hands down." I prefer the design and room of a freestanding, though, and lean towards it.
Any thoughts from you folks?
Dan, great post!! I'm in the same boat as you! did all the research blah blah blah..
At first I dint want to cross the $300 limit but now I might have t to make me happy. So far My 4 tents are Nemo Dagger, Copper Spur HV UL2 , Tiger Wall UL2 and MSR Hubba Hubba. Which Ill get, remains to be determined and based the posts here could steer me one way or another.
The last thing I was is t get a tent and not be happy with it and have a hard time returning it.. Let us know what you decide! Good luck!!
Maineiac64
02-12-2021, 18:13
I would look at zpacks duplex and gossamer gear two with pole kit. A stretch of budget but great tents.
justhike
02-12-2021, 20:09
I have the NEMO Hornet 2p. I still like a 2-wall design, and was looking for a light-weight tent that wouldn't break the bank.
It is pretty light - mine is less than 34oz including 7 stakes (came with 6, but I switched them out for lighter stakes and added one as a spare).
I also added a 4.5oz piece of Tyvek for a footprint (added weight; cut to fit). The fabrics are very lightweight and I like to protect the tent bottom (and my air pad) and keep any ground moisture away.
I also looked at the Big Agnes Flycreek2, but I prefer the dual side doors of the Nemo. For some reason I prefer to enter/exit tent along the long end and not at the head end (although I have to admit there have been some sites where the door at the head end may have been useful. It is amazing how small an area you need for setup, but sometimes tucking it into a small spot between trees or logs makes the side vestibules a more difficult set-up).
Dan Roper
02-12-2021, 23:37
Thanks for the input, WhiteBlazers.
I looked at the Nemo tents (and a few others) after Caleb's post and added it to my short list. Right now, I'm leaning that way, with it ahead of the BA Copper and the MSR Hubba Hubba.
The Zpacks is a budget-buster. With the addition of the stakes, more than $700.
I might decide by sometime Saturday or Sunday, so I'll keep watching here and comparing possibilities. Very much appreciate all your input. It helps to hear from those with experience.
Slow Trek
02-12-2021, 23:46
While not ultralight,I have carried a Hubba from Springer to Delaware Water Gap(so far),as has my son. Durable,just roomy enough,and easy set up. We have been happy with them,and no doubt they will last the rest of the journey when conditions permit.
Why not TarpTent?
There are models that don’t require trekking poles. Henry sells aluminum poles that replace trekking poles if you don’t use trekking poles. I haven’t looked lately, but I think there are a freestanding model or two.
I own the Stratospire 1 with the part solid inner tent body. Highly recommended. The SS 1 is huge for one person. When conditions permit, I only take the rainfly. Polycryo window insulation film from ACE HARDWARE keeps the tub floor protected. Light and inexpensive.
I also have the MSR HUBBA HUBBA NX. It’s a nice tent. I have used it solo and with my granddaughter. Like all tents, the Hubba Hubba needs adequate staking. We had to improvise at Great Sand Dunes. The ground in the Campground was like gravel and cement aggregate. We managed to find enough rocks to keep the tent secure for the night.
Lots of choices. Good luck!
Wayne
Siestita
02-13-2021, 00:34
Dan--You want a considerably lighter tent than what you have, one that costs less then $300 and does not require use of trekking poles to set up. You anticipate using it just for yourself, mostly in the eastern USA, "mainly in warmer months".
With needs similar to yours, about twelve years ago I purchased a one person Tarptent Rainbow. It's gotten much use and served me very well, mostly here in Kentucky and elsewhere in the southeastern USA. The Rainbow has been my first single wall tent, so initially I was concerned that condensation might be problematical. Fortunately that has not happened, even without my having a liner. I would not want to share space in my Rainbow with another adult (The larger Double Rainbow is designed that.), but for holding me (5'10'', 220 lbs.) and some gear its large enough. And, the weight, just 2 1/4 lbs., is reasonable.
https://www.tarptent.com/product/rainbow/#tab-id-1
Siestita
02-13-2021, 01:00
Dan--You want a considerably lighter tent than what you have, one that costs less then $300 and does not require use of trekking poles to set up. You anticipate using it just for yourself, mostly in the eastern USA, "mainly in warmer months".
With needs similar to yours, about twelve years ago I purchased a one person Tarptent Rainbow. It's gotten much use and served me very well, mostly here in Kentucky and elsewhere in the southeastern USA. The Rainbow has been my first single wall tent, so initially I was concerned that condensation might be problematical. Fortunately that has not happened, even without my having a liner. I would not want to share space in my Rainbow with another adult (The larger Double Rainbow is designed that.), but for holding me (5'10'', 220 lbs.) and some gear its large enough. And, the weight, just 2 1/4 lbs., is reasonable.
When I purchased my Tarptent Rainbow I did not yet use trekking poles. I've found it works very well simply being staked out. So, even though I now hike with with trekking poles, I never use them to set up the Rainbow.
https://www.tarptent.com/product/rainbow/#tab-id-1
nsherry61
02-13-2021, 02:00
For what it's worth. If length is any kind of an issue for you, the BA Copper Spur is slightly longer than the others on your list, regardless of what the specs say. The rain fly on Nemo tents, in general, don't pitch as close to the ground as the other tent's listed. This saves some weight, but, reduces effectiveness in heavy weather. If Nemo is still doing this, it would be an issue for me. The Tiger wall is a great ultra-light tent, but short for my tall body and more than $300, I think, as is the BA CS. It's hard to beat the price point per quality on some of the REI tents. Also some of the Tarptent models (if you're okay with single wall) are worth a serious second look.
Good luck with your decision. And make sure to have lots of fun!
HooKooDooKu
02-13-2021, 02:42
I loved my Copper Spur UL2 for a solo hike of the JMT.
Given that I used a large size pad, the UL2 is simply too small for two people, but it's got a crazy amount of room for just one.
I had heard reports of critters damaging hiking pole handles and/or boot laces, so I brought EVERYTHING into the tent with me at night (except the bear cannister) and didn't feel cramped at all.
Creature Feature
02-13-2021, 09:10
I'm a little wary of offering my 2 cents because my solution to this question didn't involve these name brands. I also was looking for a freestanding one person tent and was discouraged by the prices until I ran across a used Big Sky sold by a equipment rental company. It's a very similar design to the other free standing tents but costs half the price. It came in excellent condition and I've used it once on a 5 night shake-out hike where it performed well. It weighs about 2 1/2 pounds which is a tad over the average but for the $140 price (including shipping) I feel like I did ok
colorado_rob
02-13-2021, 10:52
A tent that works for smaller tent spaces is nice on some trails,so I bought a BA tigerwall 2 last year for the PCT... Well, the hike didn't go far, but the tent is awesome, so ilar to the copper spur, but a pound lighter and I like the doors better.I'd definitely consider the TW2.
colorado_rob
02-13-2021, 10:53
Whoops... Last post meant to say "similar" to copper spur!
ldsailor
02-13-2021, 11:24
I have a Tarptent Rainbow. It has it's own poles. It can be staked or free standing. To be free standing, you need trekking poles or some sort of pole to splay the sides of the tent out. Check out their website (https://www.tarptent.com/product/rainbow/)for more information on setup if you're interested. It's a good tent, which I have used since 2016.
I'm a little wary of offering my 2 cents because my solution to this question didn't involve these name brands. I also was looking for a freestanding one person tent and was discouraged by the prices until I ran across a used Big Sky sold by a equipment rental company. It's a very similar design to the other free standing tents but costs half the price. It came in excellent condition and I've used it once on a 5 night shake-out hike where it performed well. It weighs about 2 1/2 pounds which is a tad over the average but for the $140 price (including shipping) I feel like I did ok
Never heard of them before so visited their site... Big Sky Chinook 2P $600 :eek:
Dan Roper
02-13-2021, 12:13
I'm 6'2" but don't get claustrophobic and don't mind slight dampness from touching a wall (but sure don't like actual leaks or poor water quality).
I checked out the Tarpent Rainbow (thanks for the recommend). It looks good (bathtub floor, which I really like) but is fairly heavy. Around three pounds (or more if I had to add poles since I don't carry tekking poles).
I'm still leaning towards Nemo Hornet 1 or 2 - at around two pounds and at the halfway point in the price range) but will continue looking, and before making a decision will definitely look at the Copper Spur and Hubba Hubba again.
All the good input here is encouraging, knowing there are so many tents pleasing experienced hikers, but also overwhelming in that there are so many good choices. This may be a golden era of relatively affordable, quality shelters. So many companies surely won't make it forever? They'll have to be some mergers and some failures, so that options will be fewer later. (This insight from one who got his worst college grade in Econ.)
Yeah, I'm a little confused by the idea that they're half the price...
Haggis the Hiker
02-13-2021, 13:41
For variety of reasons I decided to ditch my Tiger Wall. After looking around a LOT I decided on the Tarptent Double Rainbow. I can't wait for it to arrive and see it up close and personal!
Creature Feature
02-13-2021, 13:42
[QUOTE Big Sky sold by a equipment rental company. It's a very similar design to the other free standing tents but costs half the price. It came in excellent condition and I've used it once on a 5 night shake-out hike where it performed well. It weighs about 2 1/2 pounds which is a tad over the average but for the $140 price (including shipping) I feel like I did ok[/QUOTE]
To be clear, the tent is a Big Sky Soul 1 person purchased used from Lower Gear. I just checked their web site and it looks like this no longer available from them. I do think it's a well designed and constructed basic tent.
Dan Roper
02-13-2021, 16:13
After full consideration of your experiences, thoughts, and comments, I've reached my first decision-making point.
I've eliminated this shelter from consideration:
47323
Dan Roper
02-13-2021, 16:16
Larger size. :rolleyes:
47325
Dan Roper
02-13-2021, 16:18
Well, heck, I can't get it large enough to see. It's a "tent cot."
Well, heck, I can't get it large enough to see. It's a "tent cot."
there's a beavis and butthead joke in this one.......
nsherry61
02-14-2021, 00:03
. . . I'm still leaning towards Nemo Hornet 1 or 2 - at around two pounds and at the halfway point in the price range) but will continue looking, and before making a decision will definitely look at the Copper Spur and Hubba Hubba again. . .
For mostly fair to moderate weather, the Hornets are great tents by most users' experiences. But, if the weather turns to blowing rain, the reduced coverage of the raised sides on the rain fly make the small vestibules almost useless in protecting your gear and the tent's inner sidewalls have a reputation for getting wet. Both the BA CS and the Hubba Hubba offer significantly more robust weather protection at the cost of a bit more material (i.e. weight) in the fly. And in a really serious blow, the MSR tents are some of the only 3-season tents on the market that don't sew any support loops to mesh alone, making them the gold standard for structural durability, again, paid for with a slight weight penalty.
Personally, I'd suggest you save your money and a lot of weight and use just a tarp. :eek::cool: They really are super versatile and work exceptionally well.
Both the BA CS and the Hubba Hubba offer significantly more robust weather protection at the cost of a bit more material (i.e. weight) in the fly
i used a hubba hubba for a few years and it's a great tent....
never got water inside, and i liked how roomy it was (solo for me)....
but, it was heavy at like over 5 pounds all in.....
i tried the hubba and it was just too much of a coffin for me.......
i still use the hubba hubba for car trips and canoe trips...
used a fly creek 2 for a bunch of trips and while it was light, i didn't like the front
entry and for a 2 person tent, it was also a touch small.....
bought a double rainbow right before my hiatus started so havent used it yet....
Personally been very happy with Big Agnes tents. Started out with Seedhouse 2, then Flycreek 1 for the past 7 years, and just bought a Tigerwall 1.
D.D.Bear
02-14-2021, 11:00
My 8 or so year journey from Amicalola Falls to Damascus as a section hiker: Outfitted locally w big three - tent was 5+ lbs:eek:. Learning curve kicks in. Reactionary (understandable🤣) purchase is CS UL1. Loved weight reduction - too small, only one door. CS UL2 has been perfect balance of weight and space for me. Feels palatial w everything I section hike with kept inside at night over last 300 miles.😁
Dan Roper
02-14-2021, 15:30
By "CS UL2" you mean a Copper Spur 2, right? (Just making sure, as I'm unfamiliar with a lot of routine hiking acronyms.)
Appreciated the commentary about the Nemo Hornet, above (modest water issues in high winds). That's helpful to know.
Still haven't decided but probably down to between the Copper Spur and Nemo Hornet. Not yet sure whether to go with a 1-person or 2-person version, but leaning towards the latter.
Thanks again for all the helpful insights.
By "CS UL2" you mean a Copper Spur 2, right? (Just making sure, as I'm unfamiliar with a lot of routine hiking acronyms.)
Appreciated the commentary about the Nemo Hornet, above (modest water issues in high winds). That's helpful to know.
Still haven't decided but probably down to between the Copper Spur and Nemo Hornet. Not yet sure whether to go with a 1-person or 2-person version, but leaning towards the latter.
Thanks again for all the helpful insights.
Before making your final decision, I would recommend adding the Tiger Wall 2 to your comparison. Opportunity to save over half a pound, and you will be carrying that weight every mile you hike.
Traffic Jam
02-14-2021, 18:42
Good thread...I’ve also been considering a free-standing tent and top of my list is the Tiger Wall. Astro, how do feel in the 1 person? Does it feel like a coffin?
Dan Roper
02-14-2021, 20:25
I had eliminated the Tiger Wall early on because it was more expensive. But I see now that it may be in the same range, at least through some retailers. Also, it seems to have thin fabric (hence the low weight) rather than my desired tub floor, but I'm not sure the Copper Spur or Nemo Hornet differ in that regard. I'll look again.
It does seem possible to get a good to excellent 2lb to 3lb freestanding tent at or close to my desired price range of $200 to $300 (extended up to $400, if necessary). But I'm not sure any of the options have tub floors. Only the tarp tents may offer all three. I think.
pesphoto
02-14-2021, 22:08
here's a few closeups of my copper Spur UL 1....
Kittyslayer
02-14-2021, 23:00
Copper Spur UL 2. Easy setup at 5:00am while the birthday girl slept. Took about 5 minutes without instructions first time. Perfect for one person with extra room for stuff. Really cozy for two people, no extra room, watch your pad sizes.
nsherry61
02-15-2021, 01:13
. . .But I'm not sure any of the options have tub floors. Only the tarp tents may offer all three. I think.
I'm pretty sure all the tents you're looking at have "bathtub floors". It's pretty standard in modern tents. If you're hard on gear then the ultra-light fabrics and zippers can be an issue. If you are the only one using your gear and you are gentile with it, the lighter fabrics and zippers shouldn't be a big issue . . . they will reduce your tent life, but several good years vs. several good decades is normally within reason to save a few pounds for many of us.
Good luck and have fun.
Dan Roper
02-15-2021, 18:58
There are multiple good options, often only differentiated by a few dollars, a few ounces, slightly different construction. So much good input here (thank you!) that it all became rather overwhelming (again). So I came up with a bit of a comparison chart (pasted below). The top two choices seem to be Copper Spur 1 (no negatives, that I've heard of) and Nemo Dragonfly 1 (relatively little said about it but seems comparable. I think I've eliminated the Nemo Hornet (blowing rain issue) and MSR Hubba Hubba (weight and shorter length). I'm inclined to go with a tent rather than tarp, because I've always used them, like them, and am most comfortable with them.
So, likely going to choose the Copper Spur 1.
The info (weights obtained from makers for comparison purposes; actual weight on trail (due to humidity, water retention, etc.) will usually be more.
1. Tents – Less durable than tarps (or, if durable, heavier), light to moderate weight, often more water tight, less roomy. I’m accustomed to these, often freestanding (or semi), most set up quickly, easily.
Copper Spur – $380 (1-person) 2.2 lbs; 88 inches; $450 (2-person) 2.12 lbs, 88 inches
Nemo Dragonfly - $360 (1) 2.0 lbs; 88 inches; $400 (2) 2.9 lbs, 88 inches
Nemo Hornet - $330 (1) 1.10 lbs, 87 inches long; $370 (2), 1.15 lbs, 85 inches.
MSR Hubba - $380 (1) 2.7 lbs, 85 inches; $450 (2) 3.8 lbs, 84 inches
2. Tarp tents – Durable, light, single wall (possible condensation issues), somewhat expensive (especially adding poles, since I don’t have or use trekking poles); seem especially suited to long distance (thru) hiking, more roomy.
Dan Roper
02-15-2021, 19:00
Re: the weights listed, it's pounds and ounces. So 2.2 is 2 pounds, 2 ounces. 2.12 is 2 pounds, 12 ounces.
Just curious, why not include the BA Tigerwall?
Dan Roper
02-15-2021, 19:25
Tigerwall seems shorter (84 inches) with reports of thin and some reports re: failure in water integrity. I doubt there are major differences, though, so that if a person uses any of these tents and has a good experience, they'll develop a strong loyalty.
My search and list aren't comprehensive. It's possible I overlooked some candidates, but most of the others I checked were either markedly heavier or far more expensive than these four.
HooKooDooKu
02-16-2021, 11:41
Copper Spur UL 2. Easy setup at 5:00am while the birthday girl slept. Took about 5 minutes without instructions first time. Perfect for one person with extra room for stuff. Really cozy for two people, no extra room, watch your pad sizes.
The only instruction you need for setting up a Copper Spur (and I had to have someone show me this 'in the field') is how to do it if it's windy...
1. Stake out the corners of your ground sheet (this assumes you've purchased the matching ground sheet that can set the tent up in "fast fly" mode.
2. Setup poles with the ground sheet.
3. Clip tent body to poles.
4. Attach Fly
This was such a help when someone say be floundering trying to set poles up with the tent body in the wind.
that if it is windy, stake out the matching ground cloth (or the corners of your tent body if you don't have a ground cloth) and setup your poles with the ground cloth. THEN clip the tent to the poles
Dan Roper
02-16-2021, 12:30
Thanks, Hooku. And thanks to all of you for sharing. You provided me with helpful information and also spurred me to think of things different ways, find additional info, etc.
I think I've decided on the Copper Spur, though I haven't made the purchase yet.
There may be one negative with the newest version of the CS. The "pole tip captures" (where the ends of the tent poles rest/secure) are now plastic instead of metal. This might affect durability, and a failure could be serous and difficult/impossible to fix on the trail. But the feature may be too new for owners to offer feedback ("it works just great and is durable" or "wow, this stinks").
hey dan i would do some more research on the nemo tents .that vent cut out on the fly is a design flaw imo.
i used alot of tents over the years currently using copper spur ul2 split with the wife its tight compared to the six moons lunar duo we switched from.
but we wanted a free stand
Thanks, Hooku. And thanks to all of you for sharing. You provided me with helpful information and also spurred me to think of things different ways, find additional info, etc.
I think I've decided on the Copper Spur, though I haven't made the purchase yet.
There may be one negative with the newest version of the CS. The "pole tip captures" (where the ends of the tent poles rest/secure) are now plastic instead of metal. This might affect durability, and a failure could be serous and difficult/impossible to fix on the trail. But the feature may be too new for owners to offer feedback ("it works just great and is durable" or "wow, this stinks").
the one thing about the copper spur the zippers are delicate i tore it off the first time out.i dont think i would be crazy about the plastic pole thing either.that said if your careful its a great tent
nsherry61
02-16-2021, 14:10
. . .i dont think i would be crazy about the plastic pole thing either.that said if your careful its a great tent
This is the same conversation I remember having when backpack makers started moving away from metal buckles to plastic ones in the early 80's.
How many backpacks do you see today with metal buckles?
nsherry61
02-16-2021, 14:18
For what it's worth, my go-to tent, (i.e. when I'm going on trips with people that insist on closing themselves into a hermetically sealed box every night) is a Copper Spur. And, for what it's worth, I would actually trust BA pretty far with design choices. If they're using plastic bits somewhere, it's for a reason. And, if they are less durable (unlikely in my experience) it's a engineering trade-off made in the interest of improving the tent, no just trying to build it cheaper.
That being said, the elastic in my CS poles died after only about three years. Easy enough to fix, but annoying to deal with, and geez guys, I'd take a couple grams more weight to not have to rethread my poles after three years.
Good thread...I’ve also been considering a free-standing tent and top of my list is the Tiger Wall. Astro, how do feel in the 1 person? Does it feel like a coffin?
That was the complaint people often had with the Fly Creek UL1. While I was OK with it, I will say the Tiger Wall seems much more spacious (especially above) and the side door makes it easier to get in and out of. With my advancing age and arthritis should be well worth the extra 2 ounces.
Kittyslayer
02-16-2021, 20:55
There may be one negative with the newest version of the CS. The "pole tip captures" (where the ends of the tent poles rest/secure) are now plastic instead of metal. This might affect durability, and a failure could be serous and difficult/impossible to fix on the trail. But the feature may be too new for owners to offer feedback ("it works just great and is durable" or "wow, this stinks").
Just looked at her brand new CS set up one time in the living room. The tent body pole captures are plastic. They seem fairly robust, but time will tell.
The pole captures on the footprint are metal. So that could serve as a backup and with some creative staking and perhaps a little cordage you could be confident in the field.
nsherry61
02-17-2021, 01:14
. . .The pole captures on the footprint are metal. So that could serve as a backup and with some creative staking and perhaps a little cordage you could be confident in the field.
Except few people in their right mind carry and use footprints, even though you may be one of them. I wouldn't ever buy a tent expecting the footprint to serve as a vital structural piece. BUT, I would buy a BA CS, even with plastic bits, without hesitation because I think BA generally makes exceptionally good tents. Of course, I feel the same way about MSR and a handful of other reputable tent makers.
Kittyslayer
02-17-2021, 09:38
I wouldn't ever buy a tent expecting the footprint to serve as a vital structural piece.
Good point, the tent is fully functional without the footprint if you prefer to not carry one. With a needle and thread/floss you could likely create a pocket in the corner tent webbing to capture a pole end in an emergency without the footprint. As noted, the brand new plastic grommets look robust. I think if you monitor the condition of your gear you would likely see a failure coming in advance.
wiiawiwb
04-23-2021, 00:07
I volleyed back and forth trying to decide between the CS2 and the TW2. I finally opted for the Tiger Wall 2. I haven't had it out of the box yet but will do so soon. I wanted a true freestanding which the CS2 is but decided staking out the two corners with the TW2 was a small concession to make for ~6oz savings.
Hopefully it was the right decision. Time will tell.
I'm the opposite, I would never NOT use a footprint with a CS. For the extra 6oz you get a tarp to layout gear on when the ground/grass is soaking wet, a sun shield, the FastFly setup for either a rain shelter or to pitch the tent when its pouring rain without getting the inner wet. I've also used it as a privacy curtain to take in camp showers. Yet another benefit is after a rain storm when you camp on bare ground it can prevent your tent bottom from getting muddy and then it gets packed in its own bag, containing any dirt/mud. I've often setup my tent in the dark without worrying about policing up anything that might damage the tent floor because of the footprints protection. It also can allow you to choose that more level campsite that has a small sharp rock in versus the one thats not level.
On a different topic I wonder why BA designs their bikepack tent footprints for the CS and others with coverage for the vestibules. This seem counter to conventional wisdom saying a footprint should be smaller than your tent bottom by a little. I'm tempted to try one as I also have the CS Hotel fly which I love but will admit its convenience is heavily offset by the weight increase. But definitely nice for bikepacking.
On a different topic I wonder why BA designs their bikepack tent footprints for the CS and others with coverage for the vestibules. This seem counter to conventional wisdom saying a footprint should be smaller than your tent bottom by a little.
The footprint needs to be smaller than the protection from above so it doesn't draw falling rain under the tent. Extending under the vestibule is totally fine.
I agree with your statement but my question is more of if its ok for bikepacking why is it not designed that way for backpacking. Only thing I can think of it saves perhaps an ounce.
I know of no limitation to using a bikepack version on a backpack tent beyond the obvious need to match the tent year as pre 2020 uses a different buckle design. Thats probably going to be only a small issue as a German guy has already made 3D printed adapters(google tiplok adapter) to use an old footprint with a 2020 tent and I'm working on the opposite type of adapter since I own a 2017 but no footprint for it beyond a 2020 model.
The footprint needs to be smaller than the protection from above so it doesn't draw falling rain under the tent. Extending under the vestibule is totally fine.
I'm partial to Tarptent and the Double Rainbow (non-DCF model) but you may want to check out the new Sea To Summit line of tents. They seem very well designed, fairly light and they have both freestanding and semi-freestanding models. If REI stocks them, I plan to pick one up this year. The non-DCF tarptents are closer to your $300 price point. The Sea To Summits are closer to $400-500 (although REI usually has several 20% one item each year).
A bivy is not a bad way to go, in terms of price and weight. However, they are not tents. If you've never used one, try one before you commit. They're great when you're solo and/or climbing/at altitude and minimizing weight (and maybe not sleeping much, anyway), but can be claustrophobic while sleeping if you're not used to them. Also hard to hang out or change clothes in them. Basically for sleeping only. I've gotten a lot of comments from others when I'm in my bivy - "Is someone in there? I can't believe anyone can sleep in that thing..." That said, I LOVE my very old, very well made and still waterproof Integral Designs bivy. I'm not sure they make them or are around anymore.
HooKooDooKu
04-23-2021, 11:16
I'm the opposite, I would never NOT use a footprint with a CS. For the extra 6oz you get a tarp to layout gear on when the ground/grass is soaking wet, a sun shield, the FastFly setup for either a rain shelter or to pitch the tent when its pouring rain without getting the inner wet. I've also used it as a privacy curtain to take in camp showers. Yet another benefit is after a rain storm when you camp on bare ground it can prevent your tent bottom from getting muddy and then it gets packed in its own bag, containing any dirt/mud. I've often setup my tent in the dark without worrying about policing up anything that might damage the tent floor because of the footprints protection. It also can allow you to choose that more level campsite that has a small sharp rock in versus the one thats not level.
I can't tell if you are arguing for or against a tent foot print???
And if you are going to limit yourself to 6oz. seems like you are going to limit yourself to one of the following three things:
1. A very small tarp (oh, say the size of a tent footprint),
2. A very expensive (can you say "cuben fiber"),
3. Something totally different (polycro window film).
I read it as Crossup felt like adding 6 ounces for a footprint was a good trade.
Yes, Calabj has it right.
Indeed, while I do suffer from multiple 6 ounce pack bloat it is SO worth it to carry a footprint and especially for Big Agnes Ultralight tents. I've owned a CopperSpur 3 with footprint, a FlyCreek HV UL2 with footprint(and uses that with my current CopperSpur HV UL2 by staking out the rear corners) and soon will own a second CS HV UL2 and will have footprints for both.
As Hookoodooku points out its not much of a tarp but its way better than none when you need tarp functionality and dont carry one for shelter. I dont mind carrying things that serve multiple purposes, for example a pack rain cover. Its handy for a number of things besides covering your pack from rain(mine stays on full time) and its the same with a footprint, very handy
I read it as Crossup felt like adding 6 ounces for a footprint was a good trade.
camper10469
04-23-2021, 15:40
BA copper spur hands down. worth ever penny!
+ + + +
btw: the 2 man has 2 doors... as a one man tent owner, i wish i had.
.
I've voted for this with my pocket book twice(or 3 times if you count the CS3) One thing people dont seem to get when comparing is to compare the best sale prices. Popular high volume brands are nearly always discounted at some point in the year.
If you plan ahead so you can time your purchase for the off season it can reap huge discounts. I got a new current year FlyCreek HV UL2 for $156 a few years ago. I ordered a 2020 Copper Spur HV UL2 a month ago for $337 from a big name retailer and its now full boat at the same company. Demand is up and the market for used gear is HOT, I sold my FlyCreek in an hour on Facebook Market place and made a ton of profit. So waiting for the hiking season to buy gear is an expensive option. Also beware if buying NOS, sometimes you may find you cant find options likes footprints for non current models.
BA copper spur hands down. worth ever penny!
+ + + +
btw: the 2 man has 2 doors... as a one man tent owner, i wish i had.
.
NY HIKER 50
04-24-2021, 11:38
A tarp tent would work. However, a heavier tent that has almost been bombproof and has served me well is the Eureka Timberline. It is totally freestanding, you can put it up without the fly, and the cleaning is easy. You just lift and shake it out. I finally had to part with it since it started to smell bad. If anyone else has said this I had no time to read the thread.
cmoulder
04-25-2021, 07:51
A tarp tent would work. However, a heavier tent that has almost been bombproof and has served me well is the Eureka Timberline. It is totally freestanding, you can put it up without the fly, and the cleaning is easy. You just lift and shake it out. I finally had to part with it since it started to smell bad. If anyone else has said this I had no time to read the thread.
For backpacking?? I had one many moons ago and while it is a great tent it weighs about 7.5lbs... which on some warm-weather trips is more than my entire base weight these days.
NY HIKER 50
04-25-2021, 12:15
For backpacking?? I had one many moons ago and while it is a great tent it weighs about 7.5lbs... which on some warm-weather trips is more than my entire base weight these days.
I agree. I did say it was heavy and I've scaled back since then. However, during some torrential downpours it was nice to have the door open and i can now do that with a tarp. The Catskills in NY were the worst when it came to downpours. Now I have learned. It was a great tent.
NY HIKER 50
04-25-2021, 12:20
On its final days I was using only the fly for cover.
cmoulder
04-25-2021, 16:51
I agree. I did say it was heavy and I've scaled back since then. However, during some torrential downpours it was nice to have the door open and i can now do that with a tarp. The Catskills in NY were the worst when it came to downpours. Now I have learned. It was a great tent.
It is definitely a great, classic design. One of my best friends and I used it on many canoe and backpacking trips.
Back in the mid '90s I had occasion to speak to one of the designers involved in the development of the Timberline at Eureka! (Johnson Camping) who told me that they'd sold over a million of them at that time, and it's probably over 2 million or more by now. I'd still buy one today as a very decent car camping tent, or for canoeing if no significant portages are concerned, and certainly for scouting or other group trips where inexpensive tents that are easy to set up are desired.
Odd Man Out
04-26-2021, 10:22
I had a Eureka Timberline from probably 40 years ago (are they that old). The waterproof coating disintegrated years ago and it went to the great campground in the sky where all good tents go.
As for the OP, I gather you have figured out that there are good reasons to want a free standing tent, but not having trekking poles is not really one of them (since you can use tent poles instead). The questions really is do you want a free standing tent or a tent that is staked. Free standing tents can offer some advantage when choosing a site as there are places or conditions where staking out a tent would be problematic. However staked tents may be lighter (even with the poles added instead of trekking poles) and give you a wide variety of excellent designs to choose from. One other advantage of the staked tents is that if you break a pole, there is a good backup option available if you are hiking anywhere near trees - a 115 cm long stick. However most free standing tents have long complex flexible pole systems and I'm not sure what people do if one of these poles break in the field. maybe there is a good option someone could share.
... One other advantage of the staked tents is that if you break a pole, there is a good backup option available if you are hiking anywhere near trees - a 115 cm long stick. However most free standing tents have long complex flexible pole systems and I'm not sure what people do if one of these poles break in the field. maybe there is a good option someone could share.
Good point!
Coming from a Boy Scouts background using staked tents, I went towards dome tents (freestanding) the very day I saw the first one, back in the late 70ties, and never looked back.
The most perfect freestanding dome tent was the Salewa Sierra Nevada which has a pretty simple straight pole system you could replace by a suitable stick from some bush, or field repair using any metal sleeve you might find.
The very advanced and modern MSR Hubba Hubba NX does not offer much when it comes to field repair, most likely you are out of the game if you break a pole (and I did break one recently).
My Exped Venus II Extreme has a similar (and very simple) pole system that comes close to the old Salewa mentioned above, and it comes with three pieces of repair sleeve that would allow to perform a field repair. Highly recommended.
Not sure what you mean about a simple straight pole system that can be replaced with sticks on the Salewa Nevada.
A repair is probably easier on those (with a sleeve or something lie that) than with the hubbed poles but I don't see how sticks could help all that much.
This is the Sierra Nevada I know47914
Franco,
Exactly this tent.
The poles are three straight ones (segmented though) and the inner is fixed by velcro loops.
So if one of the poles breaks you could use any suitable stick and tie it parallel to the broken piece (the way you would splint a broken bone) and you are good to spend some more nights in the tent
If the tent has sleeves where you have to insert the poles a field repair is not that easy, my Exped has sleeves but it comes with repair joints.
The way my MSR broke, I'm out of ideas how to field repair it:
47915
This kind of failure is also potentially an issue with my Big Agnes tents too. They supply a repair sleeve tube but its stupid big so it seems much more wishful thinking than a decent repair. With the BA tents at least, the poles are made with ends that go inside the tube(no oversized end fittings), one can use a tight fitting piece of tubing which should support a tube that breaks as shown in your photo. If the hub inner tube breaks or the hub itself than you will need to do a splint type repair.
So thanks for pointing out his kind of failure,I'm ditching the supplied repair sleeve and will be carrying a tight fitting one. For my Copper Spur it looks like 9mm ID will be the size.
Franco,
Exactly this tent.
The poles are three straight ones (segmented though) and the inner is fixed by velcro loops.
So if one of the poles breaks you could use any suitable stick and tie it parallel to the broken piece (the way you would splint a broken bone) and you are good to spend some more nights in the tent
If the tent has sleeves where you have to insert the poles a field repair is not that easy, my Exped has sleeves but it comes with repair joints.
The way my MSR broke, I'm out of ideas how to field repair it:
47915
Luckily, the failure happend back home so no serious harm was done.
I just went to my garage which hosts a private miniature mechanical shop, switched on the lathe and fabricated a slim fitting sleeve.
Still, I had to dismantle the pole, apply the sleeve from the other end of the affected section and bring it down over the broken (and thus much wider) end.
Again, a task that I could not perform in the field in lack of proper tools.
47916
camper10469
04-28-2021, 08:56
the eureka is a great tent classic but not for backpacking. the reason they sold so many is its a rugged tent for heavy use, boy scouts n groups.
btw, i love the catskills. great place to test your equipment!
camper10469
04-28-2021, 09:00
thats where you can use that sleeve.
Luckily, the failure happend back home so no serious harm was done.
I just went to my garage which hosts a private miniature mechanical shop, switched on the lathe and fabricated a slim fitting sleeve.
Still, I had to dismantle the pole, apply the sleeve from the other end of the affected section and bring it down over the broken (and thus much wider) end.
Again, a task that I could not perform in the field in lack of proper tools.
47916
That sleeve repair works just fine, problem is its not going to work for a field repair, even if I carried a spare sleeve, because you'd need a vise, some strong pliers and a small hammer to push the sleeve over the widened (tulip-shaped) broken end.
I love it, I too have a home machine shop(basement) and in my post above I assumed most would not have access to a lathe so I glossed over the fact that the Big Agnes DAS tubes are 8.9mm. So I will be turning a sleeve for the hub end that is a tight fit just in case. If a tube gets broken in the middle nothing can be done that will be tight fitting as the tubes are expanded at the connection points so a repair sleeve has to be large enough to go over those. So 9mm is good enough for that.
Luckily, the failure happend back home so no serious harm was done.
I just went to my garage which hosts a private miniature mechanical shop, switched on the lathe and fabricated a slim fitting sleeve.
Still, I had to dismantle the pole, apply the sleeve from the other end of the affected section and bring it down over the broken (and thus much wider) end.
Again, a task that I could not perform in the field in lack of proper tools.
47916
BTW, my comment above was .. just a comment.
The problem Leo had with his hub is the reason why Henry Shires at Tarptent has never used that type of pole configuration.
I suggested something like a hub many years ago, it would have been easier to field repair but still Henry was not keen to go there.
And, just for some trivia, I think that Walrus was the first brand that sold a tent with a hub. The same designer later on did design the Hubba. But Bill Moss first design had something like that, I might check the dates later on.
Thanks for the insight, Franco.
Basically, the Hubba works fine, but I would not call the design idiot-proof.
There are way too many possible mistakes you can make when setting it up, especially the fly inside vs. outside, and the inner vs. the fly needs to be proper sided (only distinguishable by the colors of some small straps red vs. grey).
Under bad conditions like storm, heavy rain and/or darkness I'd have serious problems to set it up quick and proper.
Compared to the old Salewa Sierra Leone, which is all symmetrical and I could setup blind and one-handed in a thunderstorm.
(OK, the Salewa is more than twice the weight of the MSR).
Dan Roper
04-30-2021, 20:00
I'm the OP. With all the information folks posted here, I bought the Copper Spur 1 about a month ago. I hope to use it on the AT in about two weeks.
I didn't buy the footprint, but I'm thinking about getting a durable, think ground tarp. Somewhere in these four pages, one or two of you had a suggestion for something that could be bought in a hardware store. If anybody knows (saving me the time of reading through these pages), I'm interested.
Thank you for your help.
You're referring to polycro, aka window cling film.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AXON8C/
Dan Roper
04-30-2021, 20:13
Typo in preceding post: "thin" ground tarp.
camper10469
05-01-2021, 07:31
any plastic sheet will do the job.
i cut down one of these to fit under my tent....
https://www.amazon.com/Bearhard-Emergency-Insulated-Waterproof-Survival/dp/B08D3S3F8M/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?_encoding=UTF8&c=ts&dchild=1&keywords=Camping+Emergency+Blankets&qid=1619868527&s=outdoor-recreation&sr=1-2-spons&ts_id=3401221&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUTFOWkc2TTNZWjRCJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjc2MjcxMUhQOFdVSkhDTFFLQyZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTY3NDEzMVUzUzRUVTFOMktBMyZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05 vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
.
There's nothing wrong with that as a ground cloth, but it's a one pound item. More appropriate for car camping than backpacking.
While any plastic will do polycro is crinkly sounding and slippery. Tyvek is a very popular material with little to no crinkle, is radically puncture proof and is sold online in precut sizes- especially for the Big Agnes tents. They are often sold as DIY footprint kits with stick on straps and grommets. Tyvek is sold in most big box stores like Homedepot but in large pieces.
That said, without buckles you can not use DIY ground clothes as Bug Agnes Fast Fly setups in windy conditions as the fly has nothing to attach to since Big Agnes flies dont have frame fasteners in general(some like the Fly Creek have a single velcro tab in the middle). I have personally used the Fast Fly setup a few times to beat rainstorms. My method is to lay out the footprint, pile my gear onto it, plug in the frame to the footprint grommets then snap on the fly. That process takes about 2 minutes from the time I open my backpack. From inside the fly I go corner to corner removing the fly from the clip/buckle and grommet and introduce the inner tent straps followed by clipping it to the frame. So if you can beat the heavy rain by 2 minutes you can pitch your Big Agnes while being sheltered.
Just to be clear, I like polycro, it makes a nice tarp but is known for having the characteristic of tearing easily once started and pretty much requires edging like duct tape(lol, I did use DUCK tape). Here is a large polycro tarp I made to shelter my mountain bike for backpacking, I tested it as a tent shelter for my Fly Creek and found it was a huge failure as it captured all the moisture escaping from the Fly Creek and then dripped it back on the tent which made it wetter than if not covered. So it basically caused it to rain on my tent in dry conditions.
47987
Dan Roper
05-18-2021, 00:12
Final Report from the OP: I used my new BA Copper Spur 1 on six-day, 100-mile trip from Lickskillet to Dragons Tooth, VA, over the past week. Very satisfied. Easy to set up. Plenty of room (I'm 6'2"). Thanks to all for helping me find a tent that served well.
P.S. On the first night (May 11), the wind on the high ridge above Dismal Creek valley was blowing about 30 miles an hour with sleet and snow. What the hey? Tent and I survived.
4eyedbuzzard
05-18-2021, 09:24
Just an FTI on Tyvek as a footprint if you go that route. There are multiple types of the stuff. Get the stuff they use for making kites and clothing - I think it's 1443R. Lots of sellers on ebay probably have it precut and with grommets or kits for your tent. It's much more flexible and lighter than the house wrap.
Great info, I wondered why the HD stuff was so stiff.
Just an FTI on Tyvek as a footprint if you go that route. There are multiple types of the stuff. Get the stuff they use for making kites and clothing - I think it's 1443R. Lots of sellers on ebay probably have it precut and with grommets or kits for your tent. It's much more flexible and lighter than the house wrap.
Final Report from the OP: I used my new BA Copper Spur 1 on six-day, 100-mile trip from Lickskillet to Dragons Tooth, VA, over the past week. Very satisfied. Easy to set up. Plenty of room (I'm 6'2"). Thanks to all for helping me find a tent that served well.
P.S. On the first night (May 11), the wind on the high ridge above Dismal Creek valley was blowing about 30 miles an hour with sleet and snow. What the hey? Tent and I survived.
The CSUL1 is a good tent. The Tyvek footprint I made for mine was from a normal roll of Tyvek House Wrap and is 3.6 oz's. If you make one, cut it 3-4" smaller in both directions from the floor dimensions. It defeats the purpose to have it exposed on the edges where it can collect rainwater and pool under the tent.
Happy Trails...
HooKooDooKu
05-19-2021, 10:15
The CSUL1 is a good tent...
I would think the UL1 would feel a bit claustrophobic.
By contrast, I've LOVED my UL2 as a single person tent.
FWIW: There's only about a 25% weight difference in the UL1 and UL2.
I'm with you, but I can see how a CSUL1 would for example be quite a bit less claustrophobic than a FlyCreek, the CS side entrance gives you the ability in nice weather to alleviate the tent "tunnel" effect. I found the FCUL2 to be inconveniently tight despite having pretty much the same floor size as a Copper Spur. I think the fact that the OP is happy with the CSUL1 despite being 6" taller than me tells me head and should room is an under rated feature, which of course is any area the Copper Spurs excel in. All I can say is hats off to those in FCUL1s :D
I would think the UL1 would feel a bit claustrophobic.
By contrast, I've LOVED my UL2 as a single person tent.
FWIW: There's only about a 25% weight difference in the UL1 and UL2.
HooKooDooKu
05-19-2021, 15:48
...All I can say is hats off to those in FCUL1s :D
I got to borrow someone's FCUS1. That's where I learned I hated the "head" door compared to the "side" door. Just getting in the tent was like getting into your sleeping bag (which with a UL1, that's the only space you had).
While I slept ok in the the tent, the next morning, my sleeping bag foot box was wet from coming in contact with the sides of the tent.
I would think the UL1 would feel a bit claustrophobic.
By contrast, I've LOVED my UL2 as a single person tent.
FWIW: There's only about a 25% weight difference in the UL1 and UL2.
I find the CSUL1 palatial.
I find the CSUL1 palatial.
So do I. In a one-man tent, useable space to move around is important, and the CSUL1 feels like a much larger tent than it's floor dimensions.
Average Hiker
10-16-2021, 15:53
I'm probably repeating what is said here so I'll just offer my vote. If you want a free-standing tent, I like the BA Copper Spur. I've used the BA, Hubba and Nemo tents and had most success with BA. I also use Dyneema shelters. I've used Zpacks and Tarptent. If you go that route there are many choices. I've used the Aeon-Li, Rainbow, Duplex, Altaplex and Hexamid. I like the Altaplex by Zpacks a lot since I am tall. The Duplex is a great shelter also.
I love my Copper Spur UL 1. It's the older version with more sloped end walls, but still pretty much the same. I wish it wasn't half orange though. Europeans are really into tents that blend naturally with nature, and that happens to be where I'm living now. They look askance at brightly colored tents. When in Rome .....