View Full Version : what your known record low temp in a hammock
what is your known low temp in a hammock
mine was 18 degrees,my wally world pad
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=7242&c=577
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=7241&c=577
my 30 degree speer sleep quilt
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=6063&catid=member&imageuser=3462
i was dressed warmly
i was not cold,but not super warm,i wish i had my rei travel 45 degree bag
used as a quilt would have been perfect,live and learn lol:cool: neo
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47985810&parent_category_rn=4500518
krazyvan
03-23-2006, 21:06
17 degrees with a full length ridge rest and Homemade quilt. Quilt was three layers of Polarguard, about 2.5 inches loft I was wearing a 200wt fleece top and bottoms and wool socks and scull cap. Warm and toasty!!!
17 degrees with a full length ridge rest and Homemade quilt. Quilt was three layers of Polarguard, about 2.5 inches loft I was wearing a 200wt fleece top and bottoms and wool socks and scull cap. Warm and toasty!!!
excellent man:cool: neo
Just Jeff
03-23-2006, 21:51
About -10 w/ wind chill. (20F w/ 50mph winds or something like that).
Homemade Speer, PeaPod, Exped Downmat 7, JRB No Sniveller, MacCat Standard.
Worn - L/s polyester shirt, thermal pants, rain pants, socks.
I was so hot I had to vent down to my waist and remove my hat more than once during the night.
about 38*... didn't get much colder this winter... i think we only had frost twice, and then it was during the week...
badly adjusted JRB underquilt, blue foam pad, duofold longjohn tops and bottoms, wool socks, fleece hat, stock tarp. slept ok... things work a lot better when you get the bottom quilt thing figured out! oh. and a 35* down bag as a quilt (i later crawled inside, which i find is warmer than 'quilt' style under 50* or so...can roll over more without cold blasts.)
i'm a big cold wuss... hate it... gimme 95* and humid over 40* and rainy any time...
(i did do 2 army green foam pads and two army sleeping bags inside each other at -40* for two weeks once... didn't get any sleep at all though...)
About -10 w/ wind chill. (20F w/ 50mph winds or something like that).
Homemade Speer, PeaPod, Exped Downmat 7, JRB No Sniveller, MacCat Standard.
Worn - L/s polyester shirt, thermal pants, rain pants, socks.
I was so hot I had to vent down to my waist and remove my hat more than once during the night.
:D 50 mph winds,dang thats windy and cold:cool: neo
15 degrees on a ridge in the Shining Rock Wilderness Area. Winds gusting strong - 30 or 40 mph, maybe? Had my 22 oz homemade quilt, 4 oz silk liner, synth mid-wt long johns over silk liners, a mid-wt fleece balaclava, a blue Target pad under a TR guidelite.....used a down pull-over as a pillow and backup in case I needed it.... (it makes a comfy pillow!)
Beautiful night. Had to take the tarp down because the wind was so strong. (hadn't learned the trick of hanging the tarp separate from the HH tielines yet). Watched the full moon go across the sky throughout the night as I eased in and out of consciousness (the wind kept waking me up). My hammock was hanging ESE - was able to raise my head and watch the sun come up on a beautiful, crispy clear morning (the reason we'd chosen the ridge, which faced due east, in the first place).
Was my first night under 40 degrees or so. Slept warm ('cept for my toes - which I've since figured out) all night. Gave me the confidence to know that my current set up, at a reasonable weight (~25 lbs for the weekend), can keep me warm!
sdoownek
03-23-2006, 23:22
Roughly 45 below. I live in Alaska, what can I say!?
Just Jeff
03-24-2006, 03:27
45 below in a hammock? What setup were you using?
sdoownek
03-24-2006, 04:16
A lightweight string hammock, a -60*F bag, silk bag liner, vapor barrier, and a bivy bag.
I didn't say I was warm. I would have been roasting in a tent.
Just Jeff
03-24-2006, 05:18
That's impressive (not that it's a contest or anything). Were you chilled along the bottom, or just not warm in general? I'm curious because one time I used a -20F bag in +30F temps and shivered b/c I was crushing the insulation and didn't have a pad or anything. Do you think a CCF pad would have made a difference?
My best friend lives in Fairbanks, btw...works at Eielson.
sdoownek
03-24-2006, 05:52
That's impressive (not that it's a contest or anything). Were you chilled along the bottom, or just not warm in general? I'm curious because one time I used a -20F bag in +30F temps and shivered b/c I was crushing the insulation and didn't have a pad or anything.
I was just cold everywhere. I don't know if you've ever been in an environment that cold, but the physical properties of everything just.....change. The things you take for granted, like, oh, I dunno, tires on your car, don't work anymore. I've seen tires that shatter. Literally. They come apart in pieces and look like somebody broke a black plate glass window. Water sublimes, which is pretty cool to see. Anyhow, being "warm" when it's that cold becomes relative. I did eventually fall asleep that night, but it probably wasn't the smartest thing to do...
Do you think a CCF pad would have made a difference?
The only thing that would have made a difference is me hauling my ass out of the yard and into the house. I had the bag (a PHD Xero. VERY nice 78oz,-60*F, $1200ish) on loan for the winter and decided it would be "fun" to go spend the night outside in it to compare it to my current mountaineering bag. Yeah, well, uh, the $1200 sleeping bag was very nice, but I still got just as cold as I do with my $500 one that's only 6 ounces more. Granted, it wasn't a fair test, but I really, REALLY didn't want to get this bag dirty, hence the hammock.
My best friend lives in Fairbanks, btw...works at Eielson. Air Force, or Civilian? I tend to stay away from that side of town--the military people annoy me. I never will understand the "military wife" mentality. When the walmart opened, it was like a giant magnet for all the fat military wives to show off their spandex rolls.
Just Jeff
03-24-2006, 06:23
Nope - never been that cold, and I'll probably wait for better weather to visit my buddy since I'm not geared up for it. He's in the AF, but not married so he's not contributing to the military wife mentality.
Sounds like a nice bag - but I'd probably carry the extra 6 ounces, too.
:D He's in the AF, but not married so he's not contributing to the military wife mentality.
:D now thats funny lol:cool: neo
peter_pan
03-24-2006, 10:28
About 20 degrees, quilts and poly long johns, socks and balaclava.
Pan
Fiddleback
03-24-2006, 11:13
Air Force, or Civilian? I tend to stay away from that side of town--the military people annoy me. I never will understand the "military wife" mentality. When the walmart opened, it was like a giant magnet for all the fat military wives to show off their spandex rolls.
What? No fat non-military wives in spandex? Sorry the military annoy you...I'm sure they'd be heartbroken if they knew...
FB
sdoownek
03-24-2006, 13:16
What? No fat non-military wives in spandex? Sorry the military annoy you...I'm sure they'd be heartbroken if they knew.
The mentality that you hold is the exact reason I stay away from that side of town. There's a line between supporting troops performing a mission, and supporting the destruction of a culture to replace it with one that longs to be homogenous.
I like the fact that ten years ago, Fairbanks didn't have:
1. A walmart. Instead, we shopped a local shops. Now they're talking about opening a second one, based on the single fact that the military wives have complained that the "old one" (2 years) is too far from the base and they can't get there. It's 2 miles. Walk, you fat bizach.
2. Chain bookstores. Gullivers Books still had 3 stores in town then. Now there's one. Oh, and the new Barnes and Nobel, (or whatever it is) is busy every day. While I'm all in support of self education, where were these people 18 months ago?
3. Chain hardware stores. Bill and Chuck at Ace provided better service, and knew what metalbestos pipe was. They didn't point to single wall stovepipe and suggest that it was the same thing. Why does a town of 35K people need a home depot and a lowes?
4. Chain food. Of course, we had fast food places, but the opening of Chili's here in Fairbanks made front page news. It's busy every single night.
5. Chain Clothing. It's funny to see EVERY SINGLE 22 year old girl wearing the exact same clothes now that Old Navy has opened.
6. Chain Pet Stores. Cold Spot Feeds knows the name of my dog. Do you think the people at the new Petco do?
I could go on and on and on. The majority of the stores mentioned have opened within the last 3 years, and they are all on the military side of town, within 2 or 3 miles of the gate. As far as I'm concerned, the bases could annex that entire section of town.
So, do I support the military? Absofackinglutely. But I do not support the destruction of a small town identity and business that it brings. Diversity is a good thing.
two points...
1-we're having a weird cold snap here in LA... i'm sleeping out tonight. supposed to hit freezing, or close to it... this will be my coldest attempt in a hammock.
2-i know what you mean about extreme sub-zero cold.... i've slept out in minus 40*F weather at fort drum, ny... at about 20 below, your whole being changes...like your mind freezes and you live in a fog... just gets worse the colder it gets... i had the door handle on a 6 year old car come off in my hand one morning... just broke, it was so cold... had a side mirror crack from some water getting behind it and freezing... diesel fuel gets sort of thick down in that range too... gas goes a little lower...
i won't get too involved in the military wives thing... it's not just the military... it's anywhere there's new money... saw it in knoxville... the west side of a 300,000 town (in 1995) grew by about 14,000 HOUSEHOLDS (not just people... houses!) in just 6 years... that's not counting similar growth on the north side... and they weren't coming from the east and south sides... they were coming from the Northeast US... one catholic church was adding 3 families a week from 1995 through 2000... they were able to build a new high school as a result... amazing growth... and on the west side, it came three new krogers, 2 new bi-los, Lowe's relocated one store to a larger facility and opened an entirely new one in another area, walgreens opened several new stores, the major fast food chains all opened 2 more restaurants, and the county built two new elementary schools (on top of the new catholic h.s.) and they all made money... you didn't see the local 'homegrown' stores die out either... all the transplants stayed near the 'chain' stores because they knew what they had... you can't get decent keilbasa or bratwurst from boudreaux's grocery store... they don't carry frozen ravioli at thibideaux's... you have to go to kroger's for that... but you're right... it's nice that the guy at the local hardware store knows my name...
peter_pan
03-24-2006, 20:20
The mentality that you hold is the exact reason I stay away from that side of town. There's a line between supporting troops performing a mission, and supporting the destruction of a culture to replace it with one that longs to be homogenous.
I like the fact that ten years ago, Fairbanks didn't have:
1. A walmart. Instead, we shopped a local shops. Now they're talking about opening a second one, based on the single fact that the military wives have complained that the "old one" (2 years) is too far from the base and they can't get there. It's 2 miles. Walk, you fat bizach.
2. Chain bookstores. Gullivers Books still had 3 stores in town then. Now there's one. Oh, and the new Barnes and Nobel, (or whatever it is) is busy every day. While I'm all in support of self education, where were these people 18 months ago?
3. Chain hardware stores. Bill and Chuck at Ace provided better service, and knew what metalbestos pipe was. They didn't point to single wall stovepipe and suggest that it was the same thing. Why does a town of 35K people need a home depot and a lowes?
4. Chain food. Of course, we had fast food places, but the opening of Chili's here in Fairbanks made front page news. It's busy every single night.
5. Chain Clothing. It's funny to see EVERY SINGLE 22 year old girl wearing the exact same clothes now that Old Navy has opened.
6. Chain Pet Stores. Cold Spot Feeds knows the name of my dog. Do you think the people at the new Petco do?
I could go on and on and on. The majority of the stores mentioned have opened within the last 3 years, and they are all on the military side of town, within 2 or 3 miles of the gate. As far as I'm concerned, the bases could annex that entire section of town.
So, do I support the military? Absofackinglutely. But I do not support the destruction of a small town identity and business that it brings. Diversity is a good thing.
Whoa Bubba...the military and or military wives don't cause this growth....locals seeking new business, growth and profits from selling off the land to developers causes this... BTW....The population of America has about doubled in the last 50 years... you get a share of the growth and its problems also...if anything, I'd bet you get less of a share of the growth considering your remoteness and climate...
Pan
I got down to around 15* over Presidents weekend this year. I used the Clark jungle hammock, 20* WM Alpinlite sleeping bag, Exped DM7 short, Speer SPE 4x4 with z-lite pannels for the side insulation, and three Zlite panels (my sitting pad during the day) under my feet. My pillow was my down jacket and I wore md weight thermals, socks, and a balaclava. I was plenty warm and would almost feel comfortable going lower in temp. I like to use the sleeping bag and pad method instead of the underquilt method so that I can still sleep in shelters if the weather is super harsh or to chill with non hammocing friends. God I love hammocking!!
sdoownek
03-24-2006, 20:33
I'd bet you get less of a share of the growth considering your remoteness and climate...
Perhaps. Regardless, it's admitted fact, by everyone involved, that developmental research to support the new walmart, old navy, and pet store were based on the military demographic.
That's the case, here in my cold, independent, isolated corner of the world that I invite everyone to visit, but then please, go home.
Dances with Mice
03-24-2006, 20:38
High teens, low twenties, somewhere in there.
With witnesses:
http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=91679
Fiddleback
03-24-2006, 20:42
The mentality that you hold is the exact reason I stay away from that side of town...
So, do I support the military? Absofackinglutely. But I do not support the destruction of a small town identity and business that it brings. Diversity is a good thing.
'Tis off subject but I wasn't as sure about your mentality as you are of mine. I'll take your word that you support the military. But to blame them for destruction of small town identity and business is silly. Ft Wainwright origins go back to 1939, Eielson AFB to 1943. And everyone of the six Fairbanks changes you cite has happened to the small town I live near, Missoula, and there's no military base for nearly 200 miles. I would have thought growth in Alaska was more related to resource extraction...but then I haven't lived there since the 80s. In anycase, it seems the military presence for the first 55 years didn't hurt the small town thingy as much as much as the last 10 years?
So to get back on topic, what kind of bottom insulation did you use to make it to -45°?
FB
sdoownek
03-24-2006, 21:34
'Tis off subject but I wasn't as sure about your mentality as you are of mine. I'll take your word that you support the military. But to blame them for destruction of small town identity and business is silly. Then I invite you to examine the differences between Fairbanks as drawn by a line as, say, I dunno. Let's use Peger Road as the example and divide the town into the military side and the university side.
ON this side of town, where we've got independant coffee shops that offer free wireless, I wasn't the only one in support of closing it. I'm sure, had I crossed over to the starbucks in the new biggest box store, I would have been.
Let's see, though, what was the latest murder? Oh, that's right, it was three kids from Wainwright that shot each other. They were inner city minority transplants trying to sell drugs to each other, and, as one of them said on the news "rap my way up into be in rich in famous." I'm still not sure what that meant.
One of the more popular bar/movie theater/restaraunt(the blue loon, for anyone else interested) in the last year or so, decided to have a "locals only" night and a "military night", as to separate the kiddies in the military and the locals. Oil and water.
In sitting here trying to think about it, I know I'm not the only one that thinks this way. This might be a local phenom that doesn't translate well into other areas.
And, as long as I'm ranting, can anybody explain to me why showing a military ID gets you a discount at some of these new stores? Is it that people recognize that if you're in the military, you don't have any money? I don't make a lot either, I'm just hiker trash. Does that qualify me for a discount as well? And sure, you're going to say something banal, like "Oh, you don't get shot at in your job!" Well, no, I don't. I made the choice to be a bicycle mechanic, not join the military. Did the people signing up to join the military not know that they'd get shot at?
Again, it's probably very easy to label me as anti-military from my statements made here. I'm really not. What I am is anti-lackoffreethinking. I'm against being given discounts for making a job choice. I chose to be a computer geek in a past life. Why didn't anybody give me a free meal at Wendys?
I would have thought growth in Alaska was more related to resource extraction...but then I haven't lived there since the 80s.
It shows. PFD has gone down to less than $900. Less than 800K/day thru the pipeline. While gold is now at $500, it's not being mined on a large scale in this area, other than the HUGE pit northeast of town.
In anycase, it seems the military presence for the first 55 years didn't hurt the small town thingy as much as much as the last 10 years? Then justify why there's not a walmart on the west side of town, where land is cheaper and the majority of the civilian population lives? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it's over there (see below), but all logic would dictate that it's on "this" side of town.
(below)It's funny, the entire town is what, like 5 miles across? Seems silly at times that it's so divided. This entire discussion is just a classic version of the locals versus military people.
So to get back on topic, what kind of bottom insulation did you use to make it to -45°?
I wouldn't say I "made it". What I did was f'ing stupid, and I wouldn't do it again. In any case, to answer your question, I had a full lenght ridge rest and a prolite 4. Plus that ubercool bag. :)
The mentality that you hold is the exact reason I stay away from that side of town. There's a line between supporting troops performing a mission, and supporting the destruction of a culture to replace it with one that longs to be homogenous.
I like the fact that ten years ago, Fairbanks didn't have:
1. A walmart. Instead, we shopped a local shops. Now they're talking about opening a second one, based on the single fact that the military wives have complained that the "old one" (2 years) is too far from the base and they can't get there. It's 2 miles. Walk, you fat bizach.
2. Chain bookstores. Gullivers Books still had 3 stores in town then. Now there's one. Oh, and the new Barnes and Nobel, (or whatever it is) is busy every day. While I'm all in support of self education, where were these people 18 months ago?
3. Chain hardware stores. Bill and Chuck at Ace provided better service, and knew what metalbestos pipe was. They didn't point to single wall stovepipe and suggest that it was the same thing. Why does a town of 35K people need a home depot and a lowes?
4. Chain food. Of course, we had fast food places, but the opening of Chili's here in Fairbanks made front page news. It's busy every single night.
5. Chain Clothing. It's funny to see EVERY SINGLE 22 year old girl wearing the exact same clothes now that Old Navy has opened.
6. Chain Pet Stores. Cold Spot Feeds knows the name of my dog. Do you think the people at the new Petco do?
I could go on and on and on. The majority of the stores mentioned have opened within the last 3 years, and they are all on the military side of town, within 2 or 3 miles of the gate. As far as I'm concerned, the bases could annex that entire section of town.
So, do I support the military? Absofackinglutely. But I do not support the destruction of a small town identity and business that it brings. Diversity is a good thing.
:D are you bragging or complaining lol:cool: neo
peter_pan
03-25-2006, 09:21
And, as long as I'm ranting, can anybody explain to me why showing a military ID gets you a discount at some of these new stores? Is it that people recognize that if you're in the military, you don't have any money? I don't make a lot either, I'm just hiker trash. Does that qualify me for a discount as well? And sure, you're going to say something banal, like "Oh, you don't get shot at in your job!" Well, no, I don't. I made the choice to be a bicycle mechanic, not join the military. Did the people signing up to join the military not know that they'd get shot at?
The military ID card frequently gets a discount where merchants appreciate that they are FREE to be in business because of the sweat ,blood and death equity of America's military members....Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines and Coasties don't enjoy getting shot at either. Many that survive combat carry the emotional scars of a buddy's death or maiming. This is a free country loaded with personal liberty because of those, passed and present, military members who fought for our freedom and the freedom and end of oppression elsewhere so that the life style and freedoms of this country and others would prevail...Yeah, getting shot at is a known risk...And No, a discount is never expected, just an appreciated thank you from a considerate fellow citizen....
BTW, This great web site, our AT, and your right to snivell and turn spoke wrenches are brought to you by the commited members of America's military sworn to defend the Constitution.
Note to all...enjoy your freedom! Go hike and test some lower limits of your freely chosen hammock set up.
Pan
US Army, Retired
Two War Vet
Fiddleback
03-25-2006, 11:22
Sdoownek --
Oh crap! I'm so weak...I just can't resist the temptation...rising to the bait:o ...
in Missoula, MT which is somewhat smaller than Fairbanks:
Loews, Barnes and Noble, Old Navy, Home Depot, multi screen theater, winery, dozens of assorted independent retailers, Target, WalMart and a Super Center WalMart (within about four miles of each other), Sportsman's Warehouse, REI*, two Starbucks, assorted motels, super Safeway, new location of an old Chevy dealer, Staples, TJ Max, assorted restaurants and fast food stops to include the only Fuddruckers with a casino, Linens and Things, Krispy Kreme, Michaels, Pet Smart*, Best Buy*, Gart Sports*, Denver Mattress Company, a birthing clinic, hundreds of apartment units, a half dozen banks and credit unions, a two or three assisted living centers, an osteopath clinic, and more... (*new store, old building)
...all on the same side of town, in fact, all within a block of a six-mile stretch of the same street (first WalMart is actually a right turn and another two miles), all within the last 10 years (except maybe the first WalMart and Target) -- most within the past six years. The location and concentration of all these is due to improvements on the 'street' and land availability. Not a uniform in sight.
The 'military' vs the locals issue is nothing new throughout the U.S. but it had diminished greatly since the '80s. The ironic thing is, there's always been complaints about the kind of businesses near the bases/posts...they just weren't the kind of businesses we're writing about here:p . There frequently seems to be a 'townies' vs 'them' schism in locales where there is an imported population, e.g., military and college towns. What happens when the military folks decide to retire in such places or the college students stay after graduation I don't know. Do ya' think they switch sides?:-? When I first got to Alaska, there was graffiti painted in Anchorage saying, "Texans go home and take the Okies with you." By the time I left AK, there were bumper stickers, "Oh Lord...please send us another oil boom...we promise we won't piss this one away." Much the same kind of attitude shift is seen when military facilities are put on the base closure list.
I forgot about the government's hefty role in Alaska when I implied that extraction industries had a big part in the Alaskan economy. Oil and the Federal government account for about 2/3 of all jobs and income in Alaska. Fishing, timber, mining and agriculture make up 1/6 of economic activity in the state.
But back to topic...
I'm intrigued by what seems to be light insulation for -45°. Did you spend the night? Do you think the super-duper sleeping bag you were using really helped with bottom insulation?
FB
"O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away..."
....But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
--- Rudyard Kipling
And, as long as I'm ranting, can anybody explain to me why showing a military ID gets you a discount at some of these new stores? Is it that people recognize that if you're in the military, you don't have any money? I don't make a lot either, I'm just hiker trash. Does that qualify me for a discount as well? And sure, you're going to say something banal, like "Oh, you don't get shot at in your job!" Well, no, I don't. I made the choice to be a bicycle mechanic, not join the military. Did the people signing up to join the military not know that they'd get shot at?
Again, it's probably very easy to label me as anti-military from my statements made here. I'm really not. What I am is anti-lackoffreethinking. I'm against being given discounts for making a job choice. I chose to be a computer geek in a past life. Why didn't anybody give me a free meal at Wendys?
it's not the military... it's economics... if you were able to graph the disposable income of your city (i've been there, btw. nice town), i'm willing to bet that most of it come from the airbase/fort. the merchants who have opened these new stores are simply acknowledging their best/wealthiest customers, encouraging them to return, and thanking them for their military service... they'd be out of business without the military. and you'd have your small town back... ask killeen, TX, elizabethtown/radcliffe, KY, leesville, LA, or hinesville, GA, what happens to a town when the local military base closes or just 'cuts back' by half, or even when the soldiers stationed there deploy... many family members also go home, at least for the year or so their servicemember is deployed. the economy dries up and the housing market crashes. the school taxes paid (by the gov't, not the family) for those military kids also go away... it's pretty traumatic...
what is your known low temp in a hammock
Hopefully not below 98.6 degF:D
sdoownek
03-25-2006, 12:35
it's not the military... it's economics... if you were able to graph the disposable income of your city (i've been there, btw. nice town), i'm willing to bet that most of it come from the airbase/fort. the merchants who have opened these new stores are simply acknowledging their best/wealthiest customers, encouraging them to return, and thanking them for their military service... they'd be out of business without the military. and you'd have your small town back... ask killeen, TX, elizabethtown/radcliffe, KY, leesville, LA, or hinesville, GA, what happens to a town when the local military base closes or just 'cuts back' by half, or even when the soldiers stationed there deploy... many family members also go home, at least for the year or so their servicemember is deployed. the economy dries up and the housing market crashes. the school taxes paid (by the gov't, not the family) for those military kids also go away... it's pretty traumatic...
OK.
You're right and I'm wrong.
sdoownek
03-25-2006, 12:36
Sdoownek --
Oh crap! I'm so weak...I just can't resist the temptation...rising to the bait:o ...
in Missoula, MT which is somewhat smaller than Fairbanks:
Loews, Barnes and Noble, Old Navy, Home Depot, multi screen theater, winery, dozens of assorted independent retailers, Target, WalMart and a Super Center WalMart (within about four miles of each other), Sportsman's Warehouse, REI*, two Starbucks, assorted motels, super Safeway, new location of an old Chevy dealer, Staples, TJ Max, assorted restaurants and fast food stops to include the only Fuddruckers with a casino, Linens and Things, Krispy Kreme, Michaels, Pet Smart*, Best Buy*, Gart Sports*, Denver Mattress Company, a birthing clinic, hundreds of apartment units, a half dozen banks and credit unions, a two or three assisted living centers, an osteopath clinic, and more... (*new store, old building)
...all on the same side of town, in fact, all within a block of a six-mile stretch of the same street (first WalMart is actually a right turn and another two miles), all within the last 10 years (except maybe the first WalMart and Target) -- most within the past six years. The location and concentration of all these is due to improvements on the 'street' and land availability. Not a uniform in sight.
The 'military' vs the locals issue is nothing new throughout the U.S. but it had diminished greatly since the '80s. The ironic thing is, there's always been complaints about the kind of businesses near the bases/posts...they just weren't the kind of businesses we're writing about here:p . There frequently seems to be a 'townies' vs 'them' schism in locales where there is an imported population, e.g., military and college towns. What happens when the military folks decide to retire in such places or the college students stay after graduation I don't know. Do ya' think they switch sides?:-? When I first got to Alaska, there was graffiti painted in Anchorage saying, "Texans go home and take the Okies with you." By the time I left AK, there were bumper stickers, "Oh Lord...please send us another oil boom...we promise we won't piss this one away." Much the same kind of attitude shift is seen when military facilities are put on the base closure list.
I forgot about the government's hefty role in Alaska when I implied that extraction industries had a big part in the Alaskan economy. Oil and the Federal government account for about 2/3 of all jobs and income in Alaska. Fishing, timber, mining and agriculture make up 1/6 of economic activity in the state.
But back to topic...
I'm intrigued by what seems to be light insulation for -45°. Did you spend the night? Do you think the super-duper sleeping bag you were using really helped with bottom insulation?
FB
"O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away..."
....But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
--- Rudyard Kipling
OK.
You're right and I'm wrong.
sdoownek
03-25-2006, 12:36
The military ID card frequently gets a discount where merchants appreciate that they are FREE to be in business because of the sweat ,blood and death equity of America's military members....Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines and Coasties don't enjoy getting shot at either. Many that survive combat carry the emotional scars of a buddy's death or maiming. This is a free country loaded with personal liberty because of those, passed and present, military members who fought for our freedom and the freedom and end of oppression elsewhere so that the life style and freedoms of this country and others would prevail...Yeah, getting shot at is a known risk...And No, a discount is never expected, just an appreciated thank you from a considerate fellow citizen....
BTW, This great web site, our AT, and your right to snivell and turn spoke wrenches are brought to you by the commited members of America's military sworn to defend the Constitution.
Note to all...enjoy your freedom! Go hike and test some lower limits of your freely chosen hammock set up.
Pan
US Army, Retired
Two War Vet
(guess....)
OK.
You're right, and I'm wrong.
sdoownek
03-25-2006, 12:49
I'm intrigued by what seems to be light insulation for -45°. Did you spend the night? Do you think the super-duper sleeping bag you were using really helped with bottom insulation?
Yes, I spent the night. As previously mentioned, the Xero didn't help or hinder.