Avoiding ticks while wearing shorts?

[jimqpublic]

I'm from California. Backpacking in the Sierra has spoiled me- once you're above about 5,000 feet there is no poison oak, about 7,000 feet and no ticks, about 8,000 and no rattlesnakes. Mosquitos and the occasional bear are manageable. Every time I think I'll do a trip wearing long pants it fails by day 2 and I finish the trip wearing my swim trunks. I can wear a long sleeve shirt but the thighs really need ventilation.

Ticks and Lyme disease scare me more than anything else about hiking the AT. (Hot, humid weather is a close 2nd)

On to the question- With permethrin-treated socks and boxer briefs under shorts, and deet or picaridin on my legs will I be safe from ticks? I get a tic just thinking about ticks.

[nsherry61]

1) You will never be safe from ticks.
2) You will probably experience getting a tick (or ticks) if you hike the AT long enough and far enough.
3) All the permethrin in the world does not eliminate the need to check yourself daily for ticks.
4) Getting Lyme disease is common and commonly treated quickly and effectively with Doxycycline, especially if caught early (some people carry Doxycycline with them on the trail).
5) If you get in the routine of quickly checking for ticks on your legs and ankles throughout the day, whenever you stop for a bit, and a thorough tick check every night (with mirrors and/or by touch and/or with a partner's help as needed) you will likely find any ticks either before they start to burrow in or in the early stages of burrowing in. Doing so almost completely eliminates the risk of contracting disease from the ticks. It generally takes more than a day for the tick feeding to get to the point that they pass on pathogens to their host (you).

Fear of ticks, until you've encountered them, is not unlike fear of bears or snakes in the wild. They are all something to be cautious about. BUT, as long as the appropriate precautions are taken, the risk is thoroughly managable.

[JNI64]

Yeah you're never gonna be completely safe from ticks even in winter most of the time as you need 10 days or more of below 30 degrees for them to "hibernate ".

You want something else to worry about Google the lone star tick
Coming to a woods near you soon.

[nsherry61]

Having lived for several years within a 2 hr drive of Lyme Connecticut (yes, the namesake of the disease), I have certainly pulled buried ticks from my skin and my wife's skin. I have removed over 10 ticks from my legs and ankles after walking five minutes into the woods behind our house (not buried, just crawling around). I have not, however gotten Lyme disease, thank goodness.

But, the point being, you get used to dealing with the little pests and managing the associated risks. I was always pretty cavalier in the winter time. Sure, they might be around and active, but it's rare, and unless I'm digging round in forest duff or walking through a bunch of high grass, I wouldn't pay too much attention.

In general, when out hiking, I would pay pretty close attention to my legs and ankles to see how many ticks I might pick up. And, if I never saw any ticks on my legs & ankles, I'd be pretty casual or careless about whole body checks. But, if the little buggers start showing up, then I'd start getting pretty meticulous about checking more completely and regularly. It's no more hassle to check for ticks every night than it is to take a shower. It just becomes part of regular self care.

[Deadeye]

All of the above for me. I do treat my clothes, and I do wear shorts when it's warm. I check often, especially in areas where I'm more likely to pick up a tick: grassy or brushy areas, power line crossings, etc. I rarely find ticks when on a well-used trail in the woods, but do an extra close check if I duck off trail for whatever reason. I also treat my hammock and its suspension. It's just become part of the routine to check often.

[Dropdeadfred]

dont see the long pant/vs shorts issue.. actually probably better off with shorts. Ticks cant crawl up your pant legs.

[JNI64]

dont see the long pant/vs shorts issue.. actually probably better off with shorts. Ticks cant crawl up your pant legs.

Pants treated with permethrin that's. I agree with the shorts that's all I wear. The deer tick is a ground dweller or hanging out on grass so they will be coming up.

The other ticks whatever you call them dog ticks or whatever will drop out of the trees and land on you start sucking like a vampire in heat....

[jimqpublic]

Thanks everybody. Wearing long pants in August through the Mid-Atlantic would probably kill me before I get to Lyme County.

Jim

[Kittyslayer]

New to tick checks. How do you check for ticks in less visible private areas? Selfies you hope never accidentally upload to social media? Acrobatics with a mirror?

Do shaved legs help? Started shaving when bike racing so used to shaved legs. Does the lack of hair make it harder for ticks to climb or make them easier to see?

[nsherry61]

I've never read any good detailed recommendations on how to do tick checks. During the day, I just look up and down my legs and ankles feeling gently with my hand in areas I can't see. Then at night I've done it several different ways.

At times I will check everything visually and with a mirror everywhere including between my toes and yes, cracks and crevices of my private areas. Sometimes it requires a flashlight and mirror combination to see into all the deep dark areas. And yes, if you don't have a mirror or cannot contort yourself enough to see your mirror adequately, a few pictures, (quickly deleted of course), can prove to be very helpful.

As long as I'm wearing underwear (or compression shorts) that fit tightly (i.e. not baggy boxers or loose running shorts), and, I don't find ticks during the day or at night anywhere easier to see, I often skip the areas hardest and or most awkward to see, figuring that if there weren't any down low, it's unlikely they'd get up higher.

If I don't have a mirror, or I'm too tired to contort myself around to see what I need to see in a mirror, I often gently run my hands and fingers over my skin to feel for ticks in areas I can't see. I would hesitate to use the touch/feel method until you've tried it out a bit on ticks, or other soft bodied bugs, you've found (before your remove them) so you know what they feel like and how gently you need to touch to make it work.

If I have my wife, a kid, or a buddy with me, and ticks are pretty bad or we've been sitting or laying down where they might crawl into our hair, we will check each other's hair and hard-to-see, not-so-private-areas in the evening. To check your own hair, you can run a very fine toothed comb through your hair to pull out any loose ticks and then feel your scalp for any imbedded ticks. The ultimate comb for this purpose would be a nit comb like the kind used for combing lice out of your kid's or your hair, although, if your hair has tangles, this can be problematic.

If I am with my wife (or other appropriate willing partner in years past), and concerned about being extra thorough looking for ticks, we will check each other in all our awkward dark private parts as part of our evening routine.

Good luck.

[nsherry61]

[QUOTE=Kittyslayer;2283771. . . Do shaved legs help? Started shaving when bike racing so used to shaved legs. Does the lack of hair make it harder for ticks to climb or make them easier to see?[/QUOTE]
What kind of question is that. Shaved legs always help!

I have pretty light hair and have never thought about it one way or the other. I can see ticks fine through it and they don't seem to struggle moving on either smooth or harry surfaces. That being said, if one has lots of very dark hair, I would imagine that finding ticks in the jungle might be a fair bit harder. Many people certainly shave their heads (and other areas) to make it harder for ticks to hide.

[Traveler]

FWIW, I have used Deet (100%) for a number of years which seems to have worked well over a few thousand miles overall. I will use Permethrin on trail clothing (shorts, pants (or convertibles), socks, and shirts. Though that's a relatively new product for me, the added protection does a lot for peace of mind. Nsherry61 is right though, nothing works 100% so "safe from ticks" is relative. Not much beats the close inspection after a walkabout in the woods, though the ticks I have been bitten by tend to be the Wood Tick (aka Dog Tick) which are larger and easier to spot than the Deer Tick which carries Lyme disease.

[Leo L.]

Not on the AT, but we have ticks here in the Alps, too.

I've learned about Permethrin-threated trousers here on WB a few years ago and find this to be a real godsend.
Since I'm spraying my outdoor trousers with Permethrin I've never found a tick lodged fast on me again. When hiking in infested areas, especially bushwhacking, usually several to many ticks are gathering on the lower parts of the trousers legs, but they are gone within a few minutes. Sometimes I happen to watch a few of them trying to climb up the trousers obviously feeling themselfs extremely uncomfortable, a minute later they are gone.

Last year I did a dayhike with a friend along a hunters/deer trail for a full day.
He was wearing shorts, and has very hairy legs, and he had ticks crawling up his legs every minute. Due to his plentiful hair he actually did feel them crawl.
I had my Permethrin threated long-leg trousers and not a single tick on me the whole day.

I would highly recommend to treat the clothes in question, and if wearing shorts to NOT shave the legs. You won't feel crawlies on shaved skin.

[cmoulder]

I usually spray lower legs and socks with Deet, which works for me. I also wear shorts (can't stand pants above about 50°F) and it seems easier to spot them early in their journey toward nether regions.

A few years back I got some of those RailRiders InsectShield pants with the permanent (70 washings) Permethrin treatment. Brand new, never washed, I wore them into the local woods and about halfway thru my little 4mi walk I spied a deer tick working its way up my new magic britches. Seemed the treatment didn't faze the little rascal at all. So I let him (or her?) crawl onto my finger and then I sat down on a rock and put him/her on the thigh area and just kinda coralled him/her around for about 15 minutes... just crawled around with absolutely no signs of distress or an urgent need to escape.

This is the tick of my tale, crawling on the pants in question... 47595

Needless to say, I ain't a big believer.

[perrymk]

I spray gear an clothes with permethrin, use ChiggAway (https://www.amazon.com/Chigg-Away-Soldiers-Relieves-Itching-Chiggers/dp/B00KKX40PS/ref=sr_1_93?dchild=1&keywords=tick+repellent+for+people+sulfur&qid=1617102810&sr=8-93), a sulfur based tick repellent on myself, then spray DEET on myself. My understanding is that sulfur handles one type of insect, typically crawling things with multiple legs, and DEET handles another type of pest, typically flying, things.

[Big_Old_Dog]

Spandex cycling or rowing shorts to keep them out of the private parts. Worn w/o undies, chafing is eliminated.

White sun leggings help see the little buggers. Water applied to the leggings cools you down even better than bare skin.

I treat hunting pants/trousers with Permethrin and it seems to work but who wants to wear pants hiking in hot weather? 100% deet works but the smell is horrible and it can damage clothing. I apply from the knee down. Treat your pack with Permethrin, ticks like to hitch hike. Anytime I have to go thru brush or high grass, I stop and inspect my legs immediately after passing thru. I just try to be careful and inspect. I have found a few on me this year just on pre-hike trainings. If you learn to recognize deer paths, where they eat, and where they bed, avoid like the plague. Having had Lymes once, I have antibiotics in my FAK.

[Five Tango]

I treat everything but the boxer shorts with permethrine.I also take some supplements like Apple cider vinegar capsules,garlic,and B complex vitamins.Ever since going to the aforementioned combination I have not found a tick on me.Prior to that,I was treated twice for Lyme's but fortunately did not suffer repercussions.

[JC13]

I'm from California. Backpacking in the Sierra has spoiled me- once you're above about 5,000 feet there is no poison oak, about 7,000 feet and no ticks, about 8,000 and no rattlesnakes. Mosquitos and the occasional bear are manageable. Every time I think I'll do a trip wearing long pants it fails by day 2 and I finish the trip wearing my swim trunks. I can wear a long sleeve shirt but the thighs really need ventilation.

Ticks and Lyme disease scare me more than anything else about hiking the AT. (Hot, humid weather is a close 2nd)

On to the question- With permethrin-treated socks and boxer briefs under shorts, and deet or picaridin on my legs will I be safe from ticks? I get a tic just thinking about ticks.Just a side note, the permethrin instructions mention not applying it to under clothing, so you don't want to treat your boxer shorts.

[Big_Old_Dog]

I forgot to mention mice and other rodents. Don't sleep where they like to crawl around on you

[Time Zone]

A few years back I got some of those RailRiders InsectShield pants with the permanent (70 washings) Permethrin treatment. Brand new, never washed, I wore them into the local woods and about halfway thru my little 4mi walk I spied a deer tick working its way up my new magic britches. Seemed the treatment didn't faze the little rascal at all. So I let him (or her?) crawl onto my finger and then I sat down on a rock and put him/her on the thigh area and just kinda coralled him/her around for about 15 minutes... just crawled around with absolutely no signs of distress or an urgent need to escape.
...
Needless to say, I ain't a big believer.


I too ponied up some $$ to have insectshield treat a few dedicated hiking outfits (3 pair Dickies workpants, 2 SS shirts, 1 LS shirt, 4 pr Darn Tough socks). It's been some years but I'm still well under 70 washings. A couple years back I remember a tick sauntering along on my pants like the one you pictured. It didn't seem to have a care in the world! So have I merely been lucky, or does the product actually work? I'm reminded of the xkcd cartoon about why you can't always rely on averaged ratings:

47596

FWIW I also have a supply of permethrin which I have on occasion diluted and used to treat packs and such. It is the low-odor stuff (maybe Martins brand?). The regular ag brands have a strong petroleum smell. You don't want that in your washer or dryer. Anyway if I lose faith in my IS-treated clothing I can manually refresh them as needed. Anyone considering this should take extra care to keep cats away - it's highly neurotoxic to them.

I agree that it's easier to find and remove ticks if you're wearing shorts. But long pants - if you can stand them - really help avoid scrapes in less-traveled trail areas where thorny vines and such are common. With Dickies workpants on, I can usually just stride through unscathed. I'd be regularly cut up if I didn't wear them whenever possible. Sometimes it's just too hot though, and I get that.

[Tuxhiker]

Thanks perymk, for the info on sulfer and ChiggAway. I didn't know anything about that product. Deet doesn't work well for me in the deep south. Horseflies and deerflies laugh at it and so do chiggers. I switched to Permethrin, which seems to do better for the flies, but still doesn't discourage the chiggers. I will give ChA a try. Does it also help with ticks? Thanks again for that info! I'm always learning something new here!

[Dropdeadfred]

I usually spray lower legs and socks with Deet, which works for me. I also wear shorts (can't stand pants above about 50°F) and it seems easier to spot them early in their journey toward nether regions.

A few years back I got some of those RailRiders InsectShield pants with the permanent (70 washings) Permethrin treatment. Brand new, never washed, I wore them into the local woods and about halfway thru my little 4mi walk I spied a deer tick working its way up my new magic britches. Seemed the treatment didn't faze the little rascal at all. So I let him (or her?) crawl onto my finger and then I sat down on a rock and put him/her on the thigh area and just kinda coralled him/her around for about 15 minutes... just crawled around with absolutely no signs of distress or an urgent need to escape.

This is the tick of my tale, crawling on the pants in question... 47595

Needless to say, I ain't a big believer.

Well you cant claim they lied... Ticks arnt insects.

Studies I have read claim Deet isnt all that good and once dried ticks tend to ignore it. Picaridin products came out much better.
Also permethrins are pretty effective on arachnids, but it also breaks down in sunlight. So I am kinda skeptical about how long treated clothing will actually last. I give my pants, shoes and socks a mist during warm season and go figure it seems to do nothing against biting flys for very long.

[Five Tango]

I have had good results with JT Eaton's premixed permethrin.It is labeled for clothing,bedding,luggage etc Just let it dry before putting on the clothes and keep dogs and cats away until everything is dry.Wet permethrin is said to kill cats.So I would not trust it around pets and children until everything is dry.

[One Half]

ticks don't like me so I have no advice

[mclaught]

Add me to the list of people who watched ticks crawl around on my "70 wash insect shield overpriced treated clothing." I literally watched at least 5 ticks crawl on my long sleeve shirt for 5 minutes or so, with no care in the world or apparent adverse effect from the treatment. I was expecting them to fall off dead or something, but after awhile, a couple of them started to get uncomfortably close to getting out of my sight around my shoulder so I started squishing their heads. So yeah, that was the last time I ponied up money for the bugsaway or insectshield or whatever it was. I now spray my stuff (shoes and upper part of socks) before I go with the permethrin and try to stay out of the long grass as much as possible.

[cmoulder]

Well you cant claim they lied... Ticks arnt insects.

Studies I have read claim Deet isnt all that good and once dried ticks tend to ignore it. Picaridin products came out much better.
Also permethrins are pretty effective on arachnids, but it also breaks down in sunlight. So I am kinda skeptical about how long treated clothing will actually last. I give my pants, shoes and socks a mist during warm season and go figure it seems to do nothing against biting flys for very long.
Yes, they're not insects technically. But some people claim Permethrin repels them, a point about which I've observed exactly the reverse. I think that's the 'takeaway' here.

Picaridin causes me to have some sort of allergic reaction so I can't use it. I have some friends who normally use Picaridin who were being eaten alive by some sort of fly in the Adirondacks in August, so they tried Deet and it worked, although it required frequent reapplication to keep these voracious monsters at bay.

I don't know what the book is on Deet&Ticks, but it seems to work for me. Either that, or for some strange reason it brings me incredible luck. :-?

[nsherry61]

I've never used the factory impregnated Insect Shield cloths. But, I have regularly treated my cloths with spray-on permethrin to great success. For me, it keeps ticks at bay or kills them quite effectively if they get on it and stay on it for any length of time. I've actually watched them walk around for a few minutes until they drop off of completely quit moving.

To the point of the OP. When wearing shorts, I think it's well worth treating socks, shoes and shorts with permethrin. I know lots of people that have great success with DEET against ticks. I really hate the smell of DEET, and it requires frequent reapplication, so I avoid it for esthetic reasons and just use permethrin as my chemical tick protectant. I also use picaridin, with good success against biting insects. DEET is more effective against ticks than picaridin, but with permethrin and picaridin together, along with reasonably consistent (far from perfect) tick checking, I've done well against the buggers for years.

[peakbagger]

Permethrin is a contact insecticide. Its does not repel ticks until they are in contact with the product. It would great if it could be applied directly to the skin but it breaks down. DEET on the other hand does not kill the bugs as much as camouflage the user as something that is not worth biting. Deet is a solvent and it soaks into your skin. The military figured that out and developed lower percentage DEET products designed to stay on top of the skin. 3M Ultrathon is 33% DEET, but its mixed with other products that keep the DEET from absorbing into the skin. That means it lasts far longer than regular DEET and a side benefit is that its far less aggressive to plastics than 100% DEET products. 100% DEET is cheap to make and distribute, just buy a drum of it, put it in bottle that will not melt and sell it. Products like Ultrathon cost more as it needs to be blended.

Permethrin gets abraded off the surface and unless its on the surface of the fabric the tick will not be in contact with it. I use zip off nylon pants and try to be careful to limit washing the legs unless they are real dirty and make sure to reapply Permethrin during the season to them. Tick in the brush will not latch onto treated fabric but if they get on your shoes the tick can still crawl up the legs under the pant legs unless the pant legs are tucked into the socks.

I was in a ticky area once with treated pants tucked into my socks. At the end of the hike I noticed ticks on my socks but not on my pant legs. I took off the socks and found in excess of 10 on the top cuff of each sock. I hike with trail runners and use the "dirty girl" type gaiters and find that spraying the gaiters help but ticks generally hop on their hosts by hanging out on the tips of branches of brush and some are going to be higher than the hikers ankle. Without some treated fabric the hikers legs, the are going to land and head up until they find a spot to hide and then bite.

[cmoulder]

Good to know about Ultrathon... and I'll have to try the spray Permethrin, get some Martins and mix it I suppose.

[Time Zone]

Well you cant claim they lied... Ticks arnt insects.



The very first line of copy on Insect Shield's website reads:


Repel ticks and mosquitoes with Insect Shield’s line of permethrin-treated repellent clothing.

[Dropdeadfred]

humm so apparently they dont know ticks arnt insects either.

[Time Zone]

humm so apparently they dont know ticks arnt insects either.


There's nothing in the sentence I quoted from their website that claims that ticks are insects. Do you have a quibble with their company name or something? You want them to change to "Insect and Arachnid Shield"? Come on.

[jimqpublic]

Thanks again for all the replies. It seems people have mixed experience with permethrin and ticks. Assuming it does work to prevent them from latching on under treated socks and snug clothes-

Any thoughts on either fully treating boxer-brief underwear or at least the bottom 2" of the legs to stop ticks and chiggers from crawling under? It seems there's no more exposure of sweaty skin to the permethrin there than with treated socks or a shirt.

[nsherry61]

Thanks again for all the replies. It seems people have mixed experience with permethrin and ticks. Assuming it does work to prevent them from latching on under treated socks and snug clothes-

Any thoughts on either fully treating boxer-brief underwear or at least the bottom 2" of the legs to stop ticks and chiggers from crawling under? It seems there's no more exposure of sweaty skin to the permethrin there than with treated socks or a shirt.

The trick with ticks is to keep them from getting to the point they can latch on.
Sprayed on permethrin absolutely works.
Nothing works 100%.

#1) Keep the buggers from getting where the would like to latch on.

So, don't give them any chance of getting under your cloths and next to your skin. Best solution would be long pants tucked into socks, in shoes, with dirty-girl gaiters, or the like, all sprayed with permethrin. That way they don't have a direct path to your skin and you're killing them before they have a chance to get very far.

Compression shorts are a popular solution for many people to hike in.

Boxer briefs should also work well as they are tight on your leg, keeping the ticks out of the warm, moist, dark areas they love most to borrow into.

I would not recommend actually treating your underwear, although many people do, without issue, against manufacturers recommendations.
By and large, ticks don't crawl under cloths that are stretchy and against the skin. They crawl through opportunistic gaps.

[OhioHiker]

I hate ticks! I wished we could eradicate them! I treat shoes, socks, pants, shorts, hats, pack, ... you get the point... with Permethrin. I get the ready to use stuff from Sawyer. Ive read that you can get the concentrated solution from farm supply stores and mix your own dilution... but its very important to get it right.

I also rub Picturcean on my exposed skin legs and arms mostly. This year I am going to try out a essential oil type spray for the flying insects..

I still get ticks on me but I usually catch them before they start biting.. Ive heard that they typically wait awhile before biting...

[cmoulder]

There's nothing in the sentence I quoted from their website that claims that ticks are insects. Do you have a quibble with their company name or something? You want them to change to "Insect and Arachnid Shield"? Come on.

"Multi-legged and/or Winged Pest Shield"

Classic pedantry.

[TexasBob]

Here is an article about how permethrin affects ticks. It suggests that ticks ability to bite is affected after contact with permethrin. A tick that can't bite isn't much of problem.

https://entomologytoday.org/2018/05/24/new-cdc-tick-study-adds-promise-permethrin-treated-clothing/

[OhioHiker]

Here is an article about how permethrin affects ticks. It suggests that ticks ability to bite is affected after contact with permethrin. A tick that can't bite isn't much of problem.

https://entomologytoday.org/2018/05/24/new-cdc-tick-study-adds-promise-permethrin-treated-clothing/

Incredible! Thank you for sharing!

[Five Tango]

There's nothing in the sentence I quoted from their website that claims that ticks are insects. Do you have a quibble with their company name or something? You want them to change to "Insect and Arachnid Shield"? Come on.

I think they will change it when Peter Pan and Jiff change their product names to Legume Butter.:banana

[martinb]

I wear lightweight long pants tucked in to my socks in areas with heavy brush along the trail. All outerwear is treated with permethrin.

[Alligator]

The trick with ticks is to keep them from getting to the point they can latch on.
Sprayed on permethrin absolutely works.
Nothing works 100%.

#1) Keep the buggers from getting where the would like to latch on.

So, don't give them any chance of getting under your cloths and next to your skin. Best solution would be long pants tucked into socks, in shoes, with dirty-girl gaiters, or the like, all sprayed with permethrin. That way they don't have a direct path to your skin and you're killing them before they have a chance to get very far.

Compression shorts are a popular solution for many people to hike in.

Boxer briefs should also work well as they are tight on your leg, keeping the ticks out of the warm, moist, dark areas they love most to borrow into.

I would not recommend actually treating your underwear, although many people do, without issue, against manufacturers recommendations.
By and large, ticks don't crawl under cloths that are stretchy and against the skin. They crawl through opportunistic gaps.Boxer briefs are well, in between boxers and briefs:D. In most cases, looser than briefs and less bunchy and somewhat tighter than boxers. Even though hikers may have Adonis legs, the synthetic boxer briefs still tend to have some looseness in the legs as they get stretched there. If ticks get up under your pants, even with compression shorts, they will climb up to the obstruction and bite you there or go past it if they can. I mainly wear boxer briefs, but when younger before boxer briefs the times I have had a tick imbed, the tick crawled up to the ribbing on the briefs (cotton), right at the base where the cheek meets the leg and dug in. Tighter underclothes can be helpful to identify where they aren't as likely though.

Stay out of brush as mentioned as much as possible.

I had never heard of that chigger stuff either, good to know.

[Five Tango]

Way back in the mid 20th century we used to put sulfur in our pants cuffs for chiggers.It worked.

[Time Zone]

Sulfur? I bet it kept more than just ticks away. :D

[Five Tango]

Way back then you would go to a drugstore and they sold a small blue and white box with sulfur in it.I have no idea what other people used it for but we used it to keep chiggers off when we went fishing or camping.However,I did heal up some sort of dermatological mange looking issue on my horse once by mixing sulfur and Crisco vegetable shortening together and rubbing it in.Worked just fine.

[Bubblehead]

I've hiked 1847 miles of the AT, Springer to Crawford Notch. I wear the Columbia Silver Ridge long hiking pants, treated with Permethrin...no ticks as of yet. I'm guessing it would be harder to remain tick free wearing short pants...JMO...

[FlyPaper]

I'm from California. Backpacking in the Sierra has spoiled me- once you're above about 5,000 feet there is no poison oak, about 7,000 feet and no ticks, about 8,000 and no rattlesnakes. Mosquitos and the occasional bear are manageable. Every time I think I'll do a trip wearing long pants it fails by day 2 and I finish the trip wearing my swim trunks. I can wear a long sleeve shirt but the thighs really need ventilation.

Ticks and Lyme disease scare me more than anything else about hiking the AT. (Hot, humid weather is a close 2nd)

On to the question- With permethrin-treated socks and boxer briefs under shorts, and deet or picaridin on my legs will I be safe from ticks? I get a tic just thinking about ticks.

Anecdotally, treating socks and shorts will improve your chances a lot (I haven't bothered with deet). While wearing shorts that have been treated, along with socks and shirt, I have not found a tick on me (going through PA) through about 15 days on the trail during warm weather. A friend on 4 day hike with untreated clothes found 3 in short period. This is obviously a very small sample, so take it for what it's worth.

[Old_Man]

Someone mentioned shaving hair on the legs earlier and I wanted to chime in. I've done quite a bit of late spring, early fall backpacking in Florida, specifically the Ocala National Forest which is infamous for biting critters. I think last time I went out, I was using DEET but it was an older bottle so I think it probably didn't do much good. The ticks were insane--most were very small too. One campsite in particular, near Hopkins Prairie, pretty much every time I put my feet on the ground I would find at least one scuttling up my shoelaces. I got very tuned into checking every little tickle on my body, whether sweat or just a cool breeze.

To the leg hair, I find that if I pay close attention to my legs, I can usually feel the little bastards climbing up my leg because of all the hair. Just bare skin is less sensitive IMO. Of course, ymmv. Long pants, in my case, are not an option unless temps are 50 or below.

[RockDoc]

We've used permetherin on the Maine AT during June-July with good results. This weekend we're going to the Columbia Gorge, WA, known for bad ticks. So we're using permetherin soaked long pants, gaitors, and long shirt, and we will tuck pants into gaitors. We don't soak socks or underwear. So we soak the clothes, let them dry, then launder once before use. I buy strong permetherin and dilute as per instructions (1/4 cup per gallon water), then apply with large spray bottle.

[hobbs]

i used chigg away in the military for chiggers they always in large grass areas. Nevr thought to use it on the AT. Permathin yes. I picked up a tick from a day hiike this week.. I need to treat my cloths this year.

[Crossup]

Seems like I have to post this every year as people dont do serious research when they want to solve a problem.

First off, permerthin has a long history of safe use and is in fact prescribed as a treatment for scabbies in INFANTS at 10x(5%) the clothing treatment concentration. Thats applied directly to the skin as a lotion, so if you are worried about ticks in your nether regions and are not treating underwear you are being overly cautious. I find treated exterior clothing to be so effective treating underwear is not necessary but if you experience dense tick populations I'd consider the risk/benefit as worth it. If you are not sure about your upcoming exposure- carry a 3-4oz spray bottle to treat underwear on the trail, it will also be a great conversation starter at shelters :D while you dry them.

Yes it is toxic in heavy concentrations and you are most likely to get an excessive "dose" by inhaling aerosol spray and while mixing concentrate. So if spraying clothing, do so with proper ventilation. https://phpa.health.maryland.gov/IDEHASharedDocuments/permethrin.pdf

Second, you can find videos online of ticks being exposed to proper concentrations of permetherin and they act like they have been exposed to a nerve agent. I see this behavior on the trail, pretty much immediately upon contact with treated clothing they loose motor control and soon fall off.

If you dont see this happen, I'd wager your treatment is somehow failing. My main theory for how this can happen is poor penetration/saturation caused by l water repellency of many fibers used in trail clothing. I see that with mine- it wants to bead up rather than penetrate. So you have to do what ever it takes to get a good coating so it wets out the fabric. Spraying usually takes multiple passes with time between to see the entire garment wet. This tendency is also likely aggravated by those who fear permetherin thinking to avoid "exposure" with minimal applications, dont drink it or smoke it and you'll be fine. And of course despite the claims for withstanding multiple washings, its certainly not going to help your protection by washing some or all of it off, so consider at least touching up your application after washing.

Here is some info on what the military did to establish the safety and efficacy of permetherin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK231561/

Tips- Permertherin has a good shelf life(3-5 years as a concentrate) so if you hike much, buy concentrate and mix it your self(wear gloves) a quart of 36% cost about the same as a quart of Sawyer .5%. Concentrate is often available at local farm supply stores.

Once applied and dried you are dealing with a particulate on the fabric- which means if you are going to wear the same clothes for a month its going to wear off and be affected by sweat too. I have no advice on that situation as I only go 3-4 days on a set of clothes regardless of how long I'm out which means at a minimum I wash/rinse them. With the Sawyer claim of 6 machine washings, I figure 3 rinses is about all one should expect to not impact effectiveness on the trail.

[NY HIKER 50]

Yeah you're never gonna be completely safe from ticks even in winter most of the time as you need 10 days or more of below 30 degrees for them to "hibernate ".

You want something else to worry about Google the lone star tick
Coming to a woods near you soon.

Everyone might think this is a joke but one time in the middle of December on a trip I found a tick on my butt. It turned out to be a dog tick. I had to wonder at the time since it was 19 degrees!

[nsherry61]

Steven Colbert has been running a series of video clips asking famous people certain questions, one of which is what animal is the scariest. Answers have ranged from sharks to snakes, to spiders. What comes to my mind when I hear that question is not bears or cougars, or snakes, but the humble tick!

Having moved to Alaska recently, it is surprisingly refreshing to be walking off trail and keep realizing that I don't need to be tick aware. It's a really, really nice change. Somehow I'd rather deal with the bears and moose than ticks.

[hobbs]

Seems like I have to post this every year as people dont do serious research when they want to solve a problem.

First off, permerthin has a long history of safe use and is in fact prescribed as a treatment for scabbies in INFANTS at 10x(5%) the clothing treatment concentration. Thats applied directly to the skin as a lotion, so if you are worried about ticks in your nether regions and are not treating underwear you are being overly cautious. I find treated exterior clothing to be so effective treating underwear is not necessary but if you experience dense tick populations I'd consider the risk/benefit as worth it. If you are not sure about your upcoming exposure- carry a 3-4oz spray bottle to treat underwear on the trail, it will also be a great conversation starter at shelters :D while you dry them.

Yes it is toxic in heavy concentrations and you are most likely to get an excessive "dose" by inhaling aerosol spray and while mixing concentrate. So if spraying clothing, do so with proper ventilation. https://phpa.health.maryland.gov/IDEHASharedDocuments/permethrin.pdf

Second, you can find videos online of ticks being exposed to proper concentrations of permetherin and they act like they have been exposed to a nerve agent. I see this behavior on the trail, pretty much immediately upon contact with treated clothing they loose motor control and soon fall off.

If you dont see this happen, I'd wager your treatment is somehow failing. My main theory for how this can happen is poor penetration/saturation caused by l water repellency of many fibers used in trail clothing. I see that with mine- it wants to bead up rather than penetrate. So you have to do what ever it takes to get a good coating so it wets out the fabric. Spraying usually takes multiple passes with time between to see the entire garment wet. This tendency is also likely aggravated by those who fear permetherin thinking to avoid "exposure" with minimal applications, dont drink it or smoke it and you'll be fine. And of course despite the claims for withstanding multiple washings, its certainly not going to help your protection by washing some or all of it off, so consider at least touching up your application after washing.

Here is some info on what the military did to establish the safety and efficacy of permetherin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK231561/

Tips- Permertherin has a good shelf life(3-5 years as a concentrate) so if you hike much, buy concentrate and mix it your self(wear gloves) a quart of 36% cost about the same as a quart of Sawyer .5%. Concentrate is often available at local farm supply stores.

Once applied and dried you are dealing with a particulate on the fabric- which means if you are going to wear the same clothes for a month its going to wear off and be affected by sweat too. I have no advice on that situation as I only go 3-4 days on a set of clothes regardless of how long I'm out which means at a minimum I wash/rinse them. With the Sawyer claim of 6 machine washings, I figure 3 rinses is about all one should expect to not impact effectiveness on the trail.
I take it your using the tractor supply concentrate? Did you know the ratios for mix and water? Thank you try and save a few dollors this year...

[HankIV]

The military study in Crossup’s link is all on safety vs efficacy. It is generally reassuring in that regard. But not much there as to whether it works. Insect Shield’s “about us” section references a West Point test that dropped incidents of Lyme https://www.insectshield.com/pages/company-background

I’d guess that is legit, but just a guess. They reference quite a bit of mosquito testing that seems pretty rigorous, but just one short 6 month, 16 subject field test regarding ticks. Still I’m inclined to think it is effective.

[Crossup]

No I got mine at a local non chain store which was an odd one- a farm store in a city without a huge amount of farm land. Anyway thats Bowens in Annapolis.

I should also apologize for miss information- its actually a pint of 36% cost the same as a quart of Sawyer .5% so its only 36x cheaper not 72.
Now I live down in your part of the world and plenty of farm stores around including Tractor supply.
Ratios are easy, to go from 36% to .5% you are diluting 72x. Since you likely only need a quart at a time you might want to mix up either an intermediate solution like say one ounce 36% with 10 ounces water then mix the resulting 3.6% solution with 7.2x water. Otherwise to get only a quart you will need .444(32/72) ounces of concentrate. Alternatively mix up a 72 or 144 ounce batch using 1 or 2 ounces of concentrate. For convenience sake and to minimize confusion I refer to batches by the volume of water. In reality you add the water so a 72 ounce batch is 72 ounces H2O + one ounce of concentrate or 73oz.

I keep it simple mixing up 72 ounce batches in a gallon jug. Keep in mind these ratios are recommendations not set in stone- as long as you are .5% or above you are protected. I see nothing wrong with mixing up an ounce to 64 ounces water for a slightly stronger solution and more convenient measuring/storage.

I go with the minimum .5% as I'm still doing mid atlantic sections and there is not a lot of places where you are exposed to ticks on the trail, its mostly in camp and small sections of trail. In 500 miles of trail I've only had a few ticks on me and they were busy dying. I worry more mowing the lawn unprotected. One of our dogs had a tick on his ear last week but it too was DOA.

As for saving money does it get any better than paying 1/36 as much? I love how a little common sense can yield huge savings...and if you have hiking buddies you can share one bottle of concentrate and get years of protection for the price of a burger.

I take it your using the tractor supply concentrate? Did you know the ratios for mix and water? Thank you try and save a few dollors this year...

[MichaelK7]

Second, you can find videos online of ticks being exposed to proper concentrations of permetherin and they act like they have been exposed to a nerve agent. I see this behavior on the trail, pretty much immediately upon contact with treated clothing they loose motor control and soon fall off.


This has been my observation as well. I've watched ticks start crawling on my permethrin-treated pants or gaiters and they seem to become "paralyzed" quickly and then fall off.