How do thru hikes do it, How do they get enough calories?

[OhioHiker]

Ive never really paid attention to what I pack olong on 1-3 night trips. My most recent trip 3D/2N my food bag was around 5lbs. I wear a Apple Watch so it tells me my calories burnt. For my measly 7-13 mile days I am a bit more than 2200 calories.

If thru hikers are double that, how the heck can they eat enough to replace 4000+ calories!? I am having a hard time with 2200!

[Hikingjim]

Many people don't end up eating enough and lose weight.
I don't have a problem getting 3-4k calories a day on section hikes. I eat like a bit of a pig in town, eat more per day when resupply is closer together or there are store options, and sometimes do run temporary deficits when carrying 5+ days of food.
But sometimes you have to just carry the extra weight and keep eating if it's long stretches with no resupply

[JC13]

I started the BMT with 3kcal per day and by the last 4-5 days, I had bumped to 5kcal per day. I did pig out the two times I was able to get town/gas station food as well. Short trips, a lot of people overestimate how hungry they will be. So you can't really compare a weekend trip with a thru hike that lasts more then a week. The other thing is, some people have figured how to eat calories regardless of hunger or lack thereof. I drink a majority of my calories so it makes it way easier to ingest those 3k-5k as I am drinking to stay hydrated and get calories. My snacks are typically the only solid food calories I pack.
The other variable is, some hikers never end up eating enough and have to come off trail.

[Slo-go'en]

That's why thru hikers end up eating a lot of sugar. 800 calorie glazed honey bun for breakfast? You betcha. (what amazes me is that there has to be enough "normal" people eating these on a regular basis for them to be so widely available)

Lots of peanut butter helps too. Corn chips are good too. Fat and salt, two things a hiker really needs in hot weather.

[ScottTrip]

The short answer is you don't. You typically eat big meals on resupply or zero days but while on trail eat what you can. I only weighed 145 lbs at the start of my hike and lost 15 by the end.

[bigcranky]

It's definitely hard to carry enough calories on a long hike. High fat, high sugar items help (Pop Tarts for second breakfast), but I tend to make it up in town. That's why the good all-you-can-eat places attain mythical status among long distance hikers. :)

[garlic08]

In my experience, it takes nearly a month for the serious "hiker hunger" to set in, as your body starts trying to eat itself.

I managed to eat enough on my AT hike to end at roughly the same weight as when I started, and was able to return to my career as a firefighter with very little loss of strength. The AT was my third thru-hike, and I learned some eating lessons on the first two. I carried over 4000 kcal/day, and pigged out in towns. I spent as much on town meals as I did on pack food for the whole hike. I try to tell myself I ate well but there was a lot of ice cream.

I have a theory that experienced hikers use less energy than average, maybe through better bio-mechanics, and maybe some weird genetic abilities. Some people walk and run with a smoother gait. Some people can tolerate fasting better than others.

[RockDoc]

If you eat a ton of carbs you will always be a ravenous glutton, never become fat adapted, and eventually risk metabolic problems.
If you become fat adapted, you won't be as hungry, and won't need to carry or eat so much food. On my last 10 day hike I carried a lot of food out of the woods, uneaten. Just didn't need it.

Do you think that hunter-gatherers of old carried 4000 calories on their wide-ranging hunts? No, they hunted mostly fasted and ate at the end of the hunt. That's how the body is wired to work. That's why our primary energy system is based on ketones/fat, not carbs. The human body has been described as a storage battery based on fat. You don't need to fuel with carbs at all, in fact it's a recent invention that hasn't worked out too well.

[ldsailor]

I through hiked the Colorado Trail last year. I went from 150 pounds to 130 pounds within three weeks. I have had similar weight loss hiking the Appalachian Trail. That's the answer to your question. You can't eat enough and you can't carry enough. I don't hit every town for town food, so the opportunity to catch up on calories isn't there.

[nsherry61]

When hiking the PCT, my son was using lots of olive oil in everything he cooked. By the end, he'd switched to Canola oil because it had less flavor and he got tired of everything being olive flavored.

I have an ultra-endurance friend that actually carries a bottle of olive oil with him, even when we're just out climbing. And, he takes gulps of the stuff off and on throughout the day. To each their own. But lots of strategies do work.

[Tipi Walter]

If you eat a ton of carbs you will always be a ravenous glutton, never become fat adapted, and eventually risk metabolic problems.
If you become fat adapted, you won't be as hungry, and won't need to carry or eat so much food. On my last 10 day hike I carried a lot of food out of the woods, uneaten. Just didn't need it.

Do you think that hunter-gatherers of old carried 4000 calories on their wide-ranging hunts? No, they hunted mostly fasted and ate at the end of the hunt. That's how the body is wired to work. That's why our primary energy system is based on ketones/fat, not carbs. The human body has been described as a storage battery based on fat. You don't need to fuel with carbs at all, in fact it's a recent invention that hasn't worked out too well.

I'm fine with such suggestions as long as such a diet isn't an excuse to eat meat products etc. As a lifelong vegetarian I am wary of Paleo types dictating the conversation.


But lots of strategies do work.

Couldn't agree more. My main current (vegan) backpacking diet is basically this---

**Loaded old fashioned Oatmeal (dried pineapple, cherries, black walnuts, olive oil, honey, peanut butter, Bob's Red Mill vanilla protein powder). I can live on this as my main meal.

**Go Macro and Bob's Red Mill granola bars---high in vegan protein.

**Amy's vegan mac and cheese.

**Assorted non-MSG ramen noodles.

**Annie Chun's noodle meals---
47864

In addition, I take alot of nut butters. And on my next trip I'll be hauling out freeze dried brown rice and powdered soymilk---

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-9bcf7/images/stencil/500x659/products/130/730/soy_mik_packaging__33214.1616967027.jpg?c=2

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-9bcf7/images/stencil/500x659/products/119/1058/brown_rice_bulk__62960.1617116074.jpg?c=2

[nsherry61]

. . . As a lifelong vegetarian I am wary of Paleo types dictating the conversation. . .

I wish (most of the time) I could be a vegetarian. Ethically, I'd like to minimize my exploitation of slave animals and reduce my footprint on the earth in general. And, for health reasons, I suspect I would be better off with a well managed vegetarian diet than my current diet of whatever is easy and reasonably healthy most of the time. I'M JUST TOO DAMN LAZY to have succeeded in living up to my ideals on this one.

Now, for my rant . . .

I call bull on this paleo ancestor diet drivel. I have no doubt there were populations of humans that lived a very fat and protein rich existence in human history. Heck, there still are. BUT, I also have no doubt there were populations that lived primarily on vegetable matter. Heck, there still are.

As a modern analog, let's look at bears. Many people think of bears as an ultimate meat-eating, opportunistic omnivore. Sure. BUT, the vast majority of bear populations (both grizzly and black bears) in North America get the majority (~75%) of their calories from vegetable matter.

I believe that thinking of our ancestors as primarily big game hunting cave people, and then basing our diet on that fallacy, is misguided.

That being said, fat provides the highest calorie density and animal flesh tends to be high in fats, so . . .

[Tipi Walter]

Nsherry61---excellent points. And you're right about black bear diets--at least 75% in acorns and other plants. And peanut butter if they stumble into my campsite.

[nsherry61]

Mmm. . . peanut butter . . . :jump
Selectively copied from the all-knowing internet:
Peanut butter provides a good amount of protein, along with essential vitamins and minerals, such as magnesium, potassium, and zinc.Most notably, each 2-tablespoon (tbsp)Trusted Source serving of smooth peanut butter provides the following nutrients, minerals, and vitamins:Protein.

Peanut butter contains 7.02 grams (g) of protein per 2-tbsp serving. This counts toward the recommended dietary allowances (RDA)Trusted Source for women of 46 g and 56 g for men, which varies by age and activity level.Magnesium. With 57 milligrams (mg) of magnesium, each serving helps towards the RDA of 400–420 mg in men and 310–320 in women. Magnesium is essential for health, playing a role in over 300 chemical processes in the body.Phosphorous. Each serving contains 107 mg of phosphorus, which is about 15.3 percent of the RDA of 700 mg for adults. Phosphorus helps the body to build healthy cells and bones and helps cells to produce energy.Zinc.

A serving of peanut butter provides 0.85 mg of zinc. This is 7.7 percent of the recommended daily intake of 11 mg for men, and 10.6 percent of the RDA of 8 mg for women. Zinc is necessary for immunity, protein synthesis, and DNA formation.Niacin. Peanut butter contains 4.21 mg of niacin per serving, which makes a useful contribution towards a person’s recommended intake of 14 to 16 mg. Niacin benefits digestion and nerve function and helps produce energy.Vitamin B-6. With 0.17 g of vitamin B-6 per serving, peanut butter provides almost 14 percent of an adult’s RDA of 1.3 mg. Vitamin B-6 plays a role in over 100 enzyme reactions in the body and may be necessary for heart and immune system health.

[Deadeye]

I don't worry too much about what my ancestors ate - they didn't live very long. But they were hunter-gatherers; they ate what they could. Meat and fish when they could kill it, fruits, nuts etc. in season. We are natural omnivores.

However, the crap some people choose to eat at home or on the trail is amazing. I don't know why so many hikers expect to get high performance out of their bodies while eating low performance fuel. You can't live on Honey buns, pop-tarts (frosted raspberry thank you very much), and cherry coke. I think we can all treat ourselves on the trail - the calories will get used - but a better diet is bound to get better results.

[garlic08]

...I call bull on this paleo ancestor diet drivel. I have no doubt there were populations of humans that lived a very fat and protein rich existence in human history. Heck, there still are. BUT, I also have no doubt there were populations that lived primarily on vegetable matter. Heck, there still are....

Thanks for bringing this up--my thoughts exactly. Agriculture is one of the cornerstones of human civilization. In the pre-colonial Americas, we hear about maize, beans and squash as important complementary crops. The Incans apparently had thousands of varieties of potatoes.

I recently read "Animal, Vegetable, Junk" by Mark Bittman. Scary stuff, along with some enlightening history.

[Odd Man Out]

. . . I believe that thinking of our ancestors as primarily big game hunting cave people, and then basing our diet on that fallacy, is misguided.. . .

Years ago I saw a show on TV (Nat Geo or equivalent, don't remember) that profiled a village of people living a primitive lifestyle completely unaffected by modern society (may have been in New Guinea, again don't recall). But the men of the village would go out on multi-day hunting excursions, could ming home with some game they had killed. The "mighty hunters" were very proud of themselves, celebrating the feast they had provided for the village. Meanwhile the women had spent their days gathering fruits anfnuts and tending the village garden. The anthropologists making the documentary did a long-term analysis of the village diet and found that despite their bravado, the men provided a relatively small percentage of the calorie total.

[HooKooDooKu]

Years ago, I planned out a thru-hike of the JMT out west.
Because all my food had to fit in a bear canister, and because time/money constraints meant I had to hike 10 days with no resupply, I concentrated on finding foods that were calorie dense not only by weight but by size. I managed to put together a plan with 3,000 calories per day. I still averages losing about 1/2 pound per day.

[Dogwood]

Ive never really paid attention to what I pack olong on 1-3 night trips. My most recent trip 3D/2N my food bag was around 5lbs. I wear a Apple Watch so it tells me my calories burnt. For my measly 7-13 mile days I am a bit more than 2200 calories.

If thru hikers are double that, how the heck can they eat enough to replace 4000+ calories!? I am having a hard time with 2200!
The conditions of the trail miles, intensity or strenuousness of those miles, and how one constantly adapts to those conditions play significant roles in the calories expended to cover them. I do something unpopular among U.S. culture. I budget my energy and caloric expenditures in relation to trail conditions and various situations. For example, I regulate my pace and intensity knowing I am not always going to proceed at a balls to the wall FKT pace. Learning and mastering lower impact more ergonomic movement and mastering UL philosophy plays into lowering daily caloric energy needs while decreasing fatigue, all this despite personally typically averaging high 20's/low 30's daily on AT terrain.

Nutritional Science tells us food is more than calories. And, cals are not alone responsible for energy availability. For the umpteenth time calories are NOT some isolated entity one can consume. Food has many other things in it that absolutely can affect satiation, metabolism, and food assimilation. So, a calorie is not a calorie as some like to say. Calories are attached to may other things. Consumption of 25 grams of white sugar, about 100 cals, affects the human body differently than 25 grams of broccoli, about 35 cals. Despite the lower cal content of broccoli it's deemed more nutritious... because it is overall! So, trail nutrition choices can be based not solely on caloric content but OVERALL nutritional density aiming for nutritional excellence/enhanced nutritional quality. This new way of thinking about trail energy CAN result in lowered daily caloric intake but overall more energy than a higher daily caloric load of junk food. In other words calories alone are NOT the best or only indicator of energy! Other things come into play. TIP: aim for overall nutritional density and quality rather than only caloric density. If one assumes adequate energy and nutrition on trail is only addressed by calorie consumption try chugging EVOO, Squeeze Parkay or coconut oil for a few days as all are very high in calories per volume or wt. We know how this might turn out but yet the trail community pushes high cal/oz ratios as the be all end all of being energized on trail.

What I find on the AT, and to some extent on the PCT, are thrus, many of them, adhering to a modified for trail Standard American Diet(SAD) high in junk food and highly processed highly packaged food/food like products, a habit that is brought to the trail from that same off trail lifestyle. Albeit, some more experienced thrus junk food binge and adhere to the SAD but I see greater recognition and knowledge from more experienced thrus how a diet based on high nutritional density improves their performance, feeling of well being, and health.

Currently, when I thru hike on maintained ST 500+ miles, even on a 3600 mile CDT SOBO thru hike, I finish at the same wt I start aiming to stay within a narrow wt and muscle mass range that is first learned and maintained off trail and, then, brought to the LD lifestyle. And, I do it as many others do, not adhering to the SAD or eating anything and everything I can as I damn well understand it has negative outcomes. However, on the first AT NOBO I did consume junk food, in town gorge at buffets, and had a harder time mainatining energy levels despite consuming a greater daily caloric load. My junk food diet was high in sugar, low in fiber, high in highly processed food enginnered food like products, high in "bad fats",...nutrionally dismal pop tarts, the cheapest ramen, dried white potatoes, mac n cheese, Fritios, candy, Honey Buns, Oreos, Little Debbies, sugary drinks that said they were elctolyte drinks, prtein bars that were more candy bars, McDees, conveniencestore/gas station junk food, etc.

Nothing tastes as good as healthy feels.

[Dogwood]

...Now, for my rant . . .
I call bull on this paleo ancestor diet drivel. I have no doubt there were populations of humans that lived a very fat and protein rich existence in human history. Heck, there still are. BUT, I also have no doubt there were populations that lived primarily on vegetable matter. Heck, there still are.

I believe that thinking of our ancestors as primarily big game hunting cave people, and then basing our diet on that fallacy, is misguided. . . .


I concur. My rant to your rant.

It was men that did most of the animal hunting. It was mostly the woman, elderly, infirm and children especially the young women/girls who tended the crops and were gatherers. Yet, it was this group that put much food on the table. Yet, as today, it was a patriarchal based society with men getting most of the glory for the food - providing meat, the real food, - what's for dinner - on the table. Hunting animals also provided clothing, sinews for making rope/bows, bone for a variety of uses, etc. So animals and hunting them were prized. Another thing is that hunting and meat prep tools tend to survive longer being more abundant in the archeological record than gathering baskets and prehistoric farming implements. Thus it can be misconstrued by industrialized animal agriculture and the Paleo/Primal/Keto cheerleaders sometimes having ties to the meat and dairy industry that is primarily what most ate and how many lived many eons ago.

[hobbs]

We can argue this till blue in the face.Lets put it this way examples of high milage hikers Scott williamson. Andrew skruka Hiker by trail name Juniper that hiked the ect in 2016. another hiker.What do they have in common.? Found the food they could eat multiple meals that nutriest. Beans common item in their meals garanteed...I know 3 of them eat a been meal as their main thing...

[HankIV]

I am generally vegan for purposes of lightening my carbon consumption and disgust at the industrial meat production process. Not a purist, occasional eggs, cheese slip in, and I am weak for ice cream.

Going to try to maintain that as much as possible on upcoming thru. Generally good shape and muscle tone.

I plan to lean (ha, ha) on nuts for calories, dehydrated vegetables where I can get them and walk out of towns with an apple and carrot or two to munch that day.

[peakbagger]

The first continuous triple crowner who heard that it was impossible to do a triple crown in a continuous hikes (versus jumping around like Flying Brian and Anish) and went ahead and did it anyhow was infamous for claiming he ignored all nutrition advice. https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/1915/ There is podcast floating around somewhere of an interview with him. He represented himself as a honey donut and Snickers bar kind of hiker although I suspect it was just good PR. I dont think he was into publicity and he has faded into obscurity, even Wikipedia makes the claim that it can not be done.

[Slo-go'en]

I don't eat red meat very often, mostly as I can't afford it. Though on a long hike, a juicy, fat burger really hits the spot. First thing I do when I get to a grocery store is chug a pint of chocolate milk.

I have no problem with dairy products. Having lived in Vermont and knowing some dairy farmers, they take good care of their cows - or they won't produce much milk. I'm fortunate that I get free eggs from my neighbor's chickens. The half dozen roosters across the street can be a little annoying though.

[Dogwood]

Dont buy into hype BS that excuses problematic health consequences of the SAD, junk food binging, or the common AT dietary modality. They are excuses to further poor unhealthy off trail dietary habits/addictions(yes, there's this thing called eating disorders/eating behavioral addictions, maybe some have heard of it) on trail. It's not hard, bulky or shartty tasting to make healthier food choices at home and on trail particularly in the food abundant U.S. At least 6 if not all 10 of the 10 top causes of death in the U.S. are linked to dietary causality. These top 10 account for about 75% of all U.S. deaths. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929#heart-disease The consequences somehow don't suddenly magically disappear because one claims to be on a thru hike or is a hiker. This is blunt, but the health issues of the U.S. pop is partly a result of ignoring dietary quantity and quality evident in the most common diseases. And, don't expect the western medical system to offer much advice on nutrition as it is vastly ignored as it's main pillars it focuses are disease management, surgeries, and meds. Nor should one totally rely on bought out state and Federal gov't agencies.

It's a gross misconception eating like a pig, ignoring that food is more than calories is without repercussions just because thru hikers or runners are highly active.

[hobbs]

Dont buy into hype BS that excuses problematic health consequences of the SAD, junk food binging, or the common AT dietary modality. They are excuses to further poor unhealthy off trail dietary habits/addictions(yes, there's this thing called eating disorders/eating behavioral addictions, maybe some have heard of it) on trail. It's not hard, bulky or shartty tasting to make healthier food choices at home and on trail particularly in the food abundant U.S. At least 6 if not all 10 of the 10 top causes of death in the U.S. are linked to dietary causality. These top 10 account for about 75% of all U.S. deaths. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929#heart-disease The consequences somehow don't suddenly magically disappear because one claims to be on a thru hike or is a hiker. This is blunt, but the health issues of the U.S. pop is partly a result of ignoring dietary quantity and quality evident in the most common diseases. And, don't expect the western medical system to offer much advice on nutrition as it is vastly ignored as it's main pillars it focuses are disease management, surgeries, and meds. Nor should one totally rely on bought out state and Federal gov't agencies.

It's a gross misconception eating like a pig, ignoring that food is more than calories is without repercussions just because thru hikers or runners are highly active.
Have to agree crappy diet off trail youlll have a crappy diet on trail.. I eat meat and yes vegtables.IT seems most say buy as you go unless you have a dietary requirment..Yeah its called not eating garbage. Such as a ton of sugar..I am ok with beans meat veggies..Do people go for the cheapest thing since they spent so much on gear wheres that figured in...I just take it as theyre ok eating aton of sugar. I Just joined Backpacking foodie and as you pointed out her meals are a vegan style but you can add your own meat to a dish . SEe how this improves recovery and output...

[Slo-go'en]

Have to agree crappy diet off trail youlll have a crappy diet on trail.. I eat meat and yes vegtables.IT seems most say buy as you go unless you have a dietary requirment..Yeah its called not eating garbage. Such as a ton of sugar..I am ok with beans meat veggies..Do people go for the cheapest thing since they spent so much on gear wheres that figured in...I just take it as theyre ok eating aton of sugar. I Just joined Backpacking foodie and as you pointed out her meals are a vegan style but you can add your own meat to a dish . SEe how this improves recovery and output...

The thing is, it's not real often you have access to a full service grocery store. So, a majority of your meals end up coming out of Dollar General stores, which are pretty much everywhere now. Knorr sides and tuna ends up being your main meal.

[hobbs]

The thing is, it's not real often you have access to a full service grocery store. So, a majority of your meals end up coming out of Dollar General stores, which are pretty much everywhere now. Knorr sides and tuna ends up being your main meal.
sl go en i do the same thing you do with chocalte milk when i hit a store lots of protein and it repairs mucles.I did the resupply in Dollar general ITs hit or miss. SO I am back to making meals before hand and shipping them., Before people say you have no choice in your meals.WEll when I was in the military I had zero choice in my food.SO I can deal with shipping. Like I said did it come down to price or was it easy way out...

[HankIV]

[QUOTE=Dogwood;2284994. At least 6 if not all 10 of the 10 top causes of death in the U.S. are linked to dietary causality. .[/QUOTE]

While I agree with you on the nature of reasonable nutrition, let’s face it...the real cause of all death is being born.

[Coffee]

It is tempting to think that you can get away with eating junk when exercising so much every day, but the “calories in/calories out” concept is flawed especially for middle aged and older people (I’m 47). I was ignorant of this for a long time. Fortunately my recent blood work shows no sign of diabetes although it does run in my family. Avoiding highly processed foods and sugar is difficult in typical resupply locations but you can usually purchase nuts or jerky rather than chips or candy. And the initial food taken from home to the trail can be high quality. Even energy bars are on a spectrum - I like the Lara bars since they have just a few simple ingredients but even those are loaded with sugar. Thru hiking a long trail just isn’t possible right now for me but this gives me time to try to refine a better diet on short trips. I suspect that using mail drops will be part of my strategy despite the downsides with respect to flexibility.

[Coffee]

One incident I recall clearly was on my long section hike of the PCT (Mexican border though the high Sierra). I had a lousy diet full of carbs and sugar. At the end of a very long day, I had the genius idea of eating a bag of skittles which predictably spiked my blood sugar for short term energy. I then totally bonked and could go no further and had to sit on a rock for a half hour before proceeding. Other than at the end of a marathon, I’d never bonked like that before!

Off trail I have tried to minimize carbs which isn’t easy to do on a mostly vegetarian diet. I stay in shape by running 35-40 miles per week.

[Coffee]

One incident I recall clearly was on my long section hike of the PCT (Mexican border though the high Sierra). I had a lousy diet full of carbs and sugar. At the end of a very long day, I had the genius idea of eating a bag of skittles which predictably spiked my blood sugar for short term energy. I then totally bonked and could go no further and had to sit on a rock for a half hour before proceeding. Other than at the end of a marathon, I’d never bonked like that before!

Off trail I have tried to minimize carbs which isn’t easy to do on a mostly vegetarian diet. I stay in shape by running 35-40 miles per week.

[peakbagger]

One observation I made during sectioning is that many of the resupply points in hiker towns tend to be Save A Lot/Family Dollar type stores located in low rent down towns. Just out on the outskirts of town there is usually a newer full service supermarket but it requires a long walk, a hitch or shuttle. My guess is the temptation is to just go the place that is easy.

That just happened in Gorham NH, a Dollar General moved into a long vacant grocery store, its right in town next to the Post Office where thru hikers tend to visit. There is a somewhat better stocked Super Walmart just north of downtown but is long walk or a shuttle. Most of the AT hostels in town do shuttle to Walmart but my guess is a lot of folks will just go into Dollar General which is pretty well low grade fat and carbs city, no produce or fresh fruits and vegetables. I am definitely not holding a Super Walmart up as a shining example of healthy food but compared to a Dollar General its a major improvement. We do have a weekly farmers market and I see plenty of thru hikers taking advantage of it but its only one afternoon a week.

Heading north on the AT out of Gorham, fresh fruit and produce is extremely rare. About the only places I can think of is in Rangeley Maine (still a hitch or shuttle from the AT crossing) or Stratton Maine. Most thrus by that point are low on bucks and expect they buy whatever is cheapest of the local stores limited selections and that is almost always highly processed carbs with the provision to add fat and milk. Those products have a shelf life or decades so no worry about them going bad while fresh veggies and fruit goes bad relatively quickly.

[garlic08]

While I agree with you on the nature of reasonable nutrition, let’s face it...the real cause of all death is being born.

Yes, life is a fatal disease. And it's sexually transmitted, at that.

[nsherry61]

Yes, life is a fatal disease. And it's sexually transmitted, at that.

So what you are suggesting is that the essence of our existence is sex and death?
I like it. Kinda morbid and deep and not, all at the same time. :banana

[illabelle]

Dont buy into hype BS that excuses problematic health consequences of the SAD, junk food binging, or the common AT dietary modality. They are excuses to further poor unhealthy off trail dietary habits/addictions(yes, there's this thing called eating disorders/eating behavioral addictions, maybe some have heard of it) on trail. It's not hard, bulky or shartty tasting to make healthier food choices at home and on trail particularly in the food abundant U.S. At least 6 if not all 10 of the 10 top causes of death in the U.S. are linked to dietary causality. These top 10 account for about 75% of all U.S. deaths. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929#heart-disease The consequences somehow don't suddenly magically disappear because one claims to be on a thru hike or is a hiker. This is blunt, but the health issues of the U.S. pop is partly a result of ignoring dietary quantity and quality evident in the most common diseases. And, don't expect the western medical system to offer much advice on nutrition as it is vastly ignored as it's main pillars it focuses are disease management, surgeries, and meds. Nor should one totally rely on bought out state and Federal gov't agencies.

It's a gross misconception eating like a pig, ignoring that food is more than calories is without repercussions just because thru hikers or runners are highly active.
Excellent book (also available in audio form) on this subject. Nearly all disease-related deaths in America are largely due to poor diet. The author, a physician, watched as his grandmother at age 66 with a triple bypass was told there was nothing more that could be done for her. She was sent home to die. Due to her participation in lifestyle transformation, she lived another 30 years!

Nutritional studies are often quietly funded by the very organizations that have a stake in misinformation. Medical schools devote very little time to nutritional education. Whole Food Plant Based
How Not to Die
(https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-Scientifically/dp/1250066115)

[peakbagger]

If we are opening that can of worms, genetics and epigenetics is a big factor in lifespan. A person can be the paragon of health with perfect diet and if they have the wrong genes they are still likely to have a short life. Some folks with lousy health habits live to 100 with cigarette butt in their mouth.

[Slo-go'en]

My dad had a triple by-pass in his early 60's. At which time he finally quit smoking. He just turned 98 and still living on his own. My Mom lived to 90. Guess I got good genes :)

Back to diet, one of my early LASH hikes I started out with mostly pasta, then switched to PB+J sandwiches for dinner, GORP for breakfast and lunch, with a Snickers bar for a mid afternoon pick me up. After I switched to PB+J, I stopped loosing weight.

[Dogwood]

Off trail I have tried to minimize carbs which isn’t easy to do on a mostly vegetarian diet. I stay in shape by running 35-40 miles per week.

Have you considered nut and seeds and their butters, avos, tofu/tempeh/seitan, EVOO, coconut oil/unsweetened coconut milk, edamame/black bean/chickpea/mushroom pasta. If after low carbs choose quality complex carbs that include overall high nutritional density as found in produce. And, if your a lacto ova vegetarian or pescatarian many other options come into play.

[One Half]

Dont buy into hype BS that excuses problematic health consequences of the SAD, junk food binging, or the common AT dietary modality. They are excuses to further poor unhealthy off trail dietary habits/addictions(yes, there's this thing called eating disorders/eating behavioral addictions, maybe some have heard of it) on trail. It's not hard, bulky or shartty tasting to make healthier food choices at home and on trail particularly in the food abundant U.S. At least 6 if not all 10 of the 10 top causes of death in the U.S. are linked to dietary causality. These top 10 account for about 75% of all U.S. deaths. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929#heart-disease The consequences somehow don't suddenly magically disappear because one claims to be on a thru hike or is a hiker. This is blunt, but the health issues of the U.S. pop is partly a result of ignoring dietary quantity and quality evident in the most common diseases. And, don't expect the western medical system to offer much advice on nutrition as it is vastly ignored as it's main pillars it focuses are disease management, surgeries, and meds. Nor should one totally rely on bought out state and Federal gov't agencies.

It's a gross misconception eating like a pig, ignoring that food is more than calories is without repercussions just because thru hikers or runners are highly active.


You can't out hike or out exercise a crappy diet. Ask Jim Fixx. Oh wait, you can't. Google him. "The Father of the Running Movement." Died young, maybe 54? How? Massive heart attack due to his crappy diet despite "looking fit" and running marathons for years. He left a good looking corpse.

3rd leading cause is medical error and 4th leading cause is prescription medication (excluding ODs). But yeah, most of the stuff that kills people these days is directly related to their diet.

[One Half]

My dad had a triple by-pass in his early 60's. At which time he finally quit smoking. He just turned 98 and still living on his own. My Mom lived to 90. Guess I got good genes :)

Back to diet, one of my early LASH hikes I started out with mostly pasta, then switched to PB+J sandwiches for dinner, GORP for breakfast and lunch, with a Snickers bar for a mid afternoon pick me up. After I switched to PB+J, I stopped loosing weight.
Peanut butter is HIGH in sugar and peanuts, a legume, is known to spike insulin and leave your BG elevated for extended periods of time - with or without the sugary jelly and the bread providing an extra spike in BG. REAL peanut butter - just peanuts - is much healthier but will still spike your BG and leave it elevated.

[Slo-go'en]

Peanut butter is HIGH in sugar and peanuts, a legume, is known to spike insulin and leave your BG elevated for extended periods of time - with or without the sugary jelly and the bread providing an extra spike in BG. REAL peanut butter - just peanuts - is much healthier but will still spike your BG and leave it elevated.

Pick your poison. If it ain't one thing, it's another.

[double d]

Well said Deadeye!!!
I don't worry too much about what my ancestors ate - they didn't live very long. But they were hunter-gatherers; they ate what they could. Meat and fish when they could kill it, fruits, nuts etc. in season. We are natural omnivores.

However, the crap some people choose to eat at home or on the trail is amazing. I don't know why so many hikers expect to get high performance out of their bodies while eating low performance fuel. You can't live on Honey buns, pop-tarts (frosted raspberry thank you very much), and cherry coke. I think we can all treat ourselves on the trail - the calories will get used - but a better diet is bound to get better results.

[double d]

A guy on the AT once told me he gets, "energy from the air"! But doesn't he know its polluted?


Peanut butter is HIGH in sugar and peanuts, a legume, is known to spike insulin and leave your BG elevated for extended periods of time - with or without the sugary jelly and the bread providing an extra spike in BG. REAL peanut butter - just peanuts - is much healthier but will still spike your BG and leave it elevated.

[CalebJ]

A guy on the AT once told me he gets, "energy from the air"! But doesn't he know its polluted?
If you want to wander down a bizarre rabbit trail, look up 'breatharian'.

[Traveler]

Breather Ian, wasn't he the Benedictine Monk who invented underwear?

[Colter]

You can't out hike or out exercise a crappy diet. Ask Jim Fixx. Oh wait, you can't. Google him. "The Father of the Running Movement." Died young, maybe 54? How? Massive heart attack due to his crappy diet despite "looking fit" and running marathons for years. He left a good looking corpse.

3rd leading cause is medical error and 4th leading cause is prescription medication (excluding ODs). But yeah, most of the stuff that kills people these days is directly related to their diet.

I fully agree that a good diet is important, but Jim Fixx's father had his first heart attack at 35 and died of a heart attack at 43, plus Jim himself smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day for years before he quit. My bet is that genetics played the largest role.

It's often repeated, but medical errors are almost certainly not even close to the third leading cause of death (https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/medical-errors-2020/).

[HankIV]

Trying to figure out how to get a weeks worth of food for the 100 mile. So far have about 18k cals with lots of nuts and a squeeze bottle of ghee, moon cheese etc. still at about 9lbs for 18,500 cals. Feeling unworthy

[garlic08]

Trying to figure out how to get a weeks worth of food for the 100 mile. So far have about 18k cals with lots of nuts and a squeeze bottle of ghee, moon cheese etc. still at about 9lbs for 18,500 cals. Feeling unworthy

You're right in line with my personal metrics. I plan one pound for every ten miles, sometimes less. I packed eight pounds of food for the Hundred Mile Wilderness on the AT, for example, but that was at the end of a long hike and I had lots of fine-tuning experience (and I hiked it in four days). Calorie density is okay, too, about 125 kcal/oz. I try to reach 130 or so, but don't always make it.

Your experience could vary greatly, of course, depending on many factors. Your hiking efficiency, metabolism, general health, body fat percentage, and perhaps most important, tolerance for hunger. The first time I went to bed hungry on my PCT hike, in the middle of the Sierra Nevada with several days left to my food supply, I was freaking out. But I didn't die overnight, and did fine the next few days. I just experienced for the first time in my privileged life what much of the world feels every night.

After that I carried less food, no more "emergency" supplies. I thought back to the survival course I took a few years before, and realized there wasn't a single unit on food.

[HankIV]

Thanks for the confirmation I’m not crazy. After watching the Gear Skeptic videos, I had hoped I could get my cals/oz up to 150 or so, but must be tougher than it looks. I probably have some package weight that I could cut, but not going to move the needle dramatically.

[garlic08]

...I probably have some package weight that I could cut....

That was my first thought when you mentioned a squeeze bottle of ghee. My solution would be a baggie of cashews. (I think you mentioned earlier you are trying to be vegan.) The only packaging I ever carry is a jar of peanut butter. And at the end of a 100+ mile hike, I can fit all my trash in the empty peanut butter jar.

[HankIV]

Trying without complete success! Obviously if I have ghee. Most of the weight I could/will cut is big plastic jar of nuts, that will go zip lock. Will save a couple-3 ozs. Not enough to shot the cals/oz ratio too much