View Full Version : Is it real, or is it my imagination?
nsherry61
05-31-2021, 01:54
It seems to me like WhiteBlaze forums have become significantly less active recently when I would have expected Covid followed by spring to bring on more people spending more time thinking and typing about their backpacking passions. AT logistics and information threads seem to be maintaining activity, while general community questions, thoughts, and banter seems to have become dramatically reduced.
1) Is my perception of a decrease in general activity real?
2) If it is real, why?
- I don't perceive a significant change in backpacking as a sport or pastime.
- Any thoughts on why backpackers, as a group, would start spending less time on forums than in the past.
- Has our on-line community started moving its focus to other forums or community activities? If so, which ones and why?
- Have a few critical posters moved onto other things, so the community as a whole is less active?
- Are many of the past active members getting old and tired of talking about the same old stuff, and somehow we aren't attracting new participants? Can we come up with new and still interesting alternative topics?
Anyway, I thought I'd offer up a topic that might be of interest beyond AT logistics.
Feedback is certainly welcome and requested.
Hike on!
Seams real.
YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, Instagram and all the rest, have siphoned off much of the energy of sites like these.
TLDR is real for stuff that matters, and even more so for hiking stuff.
Facebook, which I dislike for many reasons, has network effects that stand alone forums lack. The Facebook hiking groups are very active. I’ve noticed a drop in activity on hiking related Groups.io forums as well, not just WhiteBlaze.
I think NSherry meant a trend more recently, like in the past couple of months, correct me if I’m wrong.
I have noticed that. A couple months ago I would open the “What’s New?” tab and there would be 15-20 threads, vs 4-6 now. I’ve been attributing that to the start of thru hiking seasons. (I will fall into that category myself soon, when I start an AT SOBO)
I would think Facebook’s drain would mostly be over by now, and would’ve occurred mostly 3-5 years back.
I’m not on FB, but there is a public SOBO page one can observe. I’ll just say it has not inclined me to join.
I do notice the images section seems stuck on about 10 years back.
I share Coffee's concerns about FB, and social media in general. As to why WB is less active, I'd venture a guess that a lot of us are introverts, have already completed our AT thru or section hikes, and (gasp!) are too busy for chat just for the sake of chatting. I'd be interested in knowing the average age of WBers and how it has changed over time. I bet it has gone up. Last, anyone searching for AT backpacking info on this and other sites can easily find it using a search engine.
Traveler
05-31-2021, 07:59
FWIW - I don't see much out of the ordinary in terms of the annual participation ebb and flow patterns between March and October. I think lack of participation, or numbers of posts, indicates people are getting out more than last year when many postponed their travel and/or backpacking. My guess is if this were graphed out over a period of a few years it would be fairly visible with some years having a lower "dip" in summer than others.
To expand on HankIV's comment, I doubt Facebook peels off many WB posters. Given what I have seen, those who are serious about this activity are here, we just get busy when shoulder season passes and summer beckons, which is an indication of practitioners being involved as opposed to people who just want to fight and break things.
Jonnycat
05-31-2021, 08:02
I am a member of a few FB groups, but it is such a contrived format that I don't see how anyone can use them for anything even halfway serious. They work moderately okay for things like classified ads, but there is otherwise no organization (just a flat, continual listing) nor any way to do a meaningful search.
Heliotrope
05-31-2021, 08:08
Personally I am on Facebook but I’ve started setting a daily time limit. It sucks you in but the content on hiking group pages is really not that interesting to me. I still have it so I don’t lose touch with colleagues and friends in distant places.
I think Whiteblaze has much more interesting discussion threads. Perhaps the art of conversation is slowly being lost and folks would rather post a quick selfie photo than have more engaged interactions.
I have personally been less active on Whiteblaze because I am so busy with school and solo parenting for the last few years.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No Match
05-31-2021, 08:33
It's real my friend. I have been amazed at how Whiteblaze as declined in postings and replies. I have pondered it since the 'Covid' demon launch. I really thought it would be hard to keep up with the info flow, like it was just prior to thruhiker season kickoff in late winter. I have found myself just looking for something new, or just anything trail. Also, replies to questions are longer and yes, fewer. Anotherwords-AMEN.
I too have noticed decreased activity here. I wonder if people have altered their recreational interest. Are folks sticking to more local hikes and not traveling as far? Will there be fewer thru hikers this year? Or traveling via RV and hiking? I see lots of them at popular trail heads.
During COVID I decreased my radius of travel and noticed tons more people on area trails. It felt overcrowded even without COVID. This pushed me into new areas of recreation. I've been hiking much less and rock climbing much more. I also visit a forum around that activity and there's lots of traffic there.
Tipi Walter
05-31-2021, 09:27
Seams real.
YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, Instagram and all the rest, have siphoned off much of the energy of sites like these.
TLDR is real for stuff that matters, and even more so for hiking stuff.
In my opinion Reddit and Facebook are not Forums organized like Whiteblaze. It's hard to find subject matter on either FB or Reddit as listed here on Forum subjects. When I punch in r/Wilderness Backpacking and go to classic view (like Whiteblaze) I'm confronted with no organization of subjects and instead experience the Bane of the Internet---Deep Scrolling. Infinite Scrolling. Facebook is also plagued with Deep Scrolling. What is deep scrolling? When you keep moving down the page endlessly and in the process (as with r/wilderness backpacking) never reaching the end and never getting an organized picture of subjects.
Whiteblaze and BPL.com is much better organized.
Tipi Walter
05-31-2021, 09:36
Oh and one more negatory to Reddit---if you want to print out a long and interesting thread there is no Print Option like here on WB---so you have to go the slow and crappy copy and paste technique.
Slo-go'en
05-31-2021, 09:45
Well, there are currently 534 people viewing WB. Not too bad for early in the morning on a holiday. A bit down from the record of 9,500+ one day in 2015.
But yea, not a lot of new interesting threads. Maybe we have answered all the questions.
I do think a lot of activity has moved to FB. I follow several groups, GMC, the 4,000 footers, 52WAV and 55+ backpackers. Lots of activity on these groups. The attractive thing about FB groups is you can post your pictures for everyone to see and like. One of recent photo's got 80+ likes.
I haven't joined or follow any of the many AT FB groups, but I bet there's lots and lots of activity there.
Tipi Walter
05-31-2021, 09:52
The problem with FB is, once again, deep scrolling with no "forum subject" as mentioned. If someone posts a FB trip report on Cohutta wilderness and I'm not online for two weeks---when I get back it'll be buried deep on the "timeline" or whatever it's called and I'll miss it.
If I post a trip report on my FB page it'll be buried in a few days if I put up several other posts. But like with Whiteblaze, my trip reports on FB get very few comments. WB and FB share this in common.
Maineiac64
05-31-2021, 10:31
Youtube seems to be excellent resource in an entertaining format for beginners to find gear recommendations, and others to learn about hikes, techniques, etc. I spend a larger proportion of time there than than here now. Facebook is a wasteland of crap content and worthless discussions.
gpburdelljr
05-31-2021, 10:32
I think more people are out hiking, instead of reading, and posting, on forums about hiking. A lot of pent up cabin fever.
illabelle
05-31-2021, 10:51
1. Finished our section hike seven months ago. Having now "graduated" I feel less in need of a regular intake of WB. I am grateful for the many posters who shared information that helped us with our 10-year journey, and expect to do the same for newbies that wanna know whether it's okay to bring their dog, or how long cheese lasts, or what to do about nighttime noises. Not much need for me to ask questions anymore, because I already know everything. Just kidding!!! :D
2. We're still hiking, just not on the AT. Last weekend we did an overnight at CS 17 in the Smokies, using Cooper Road Trail and Abrams Falls Trail. Was supposed to exit on Rabbit Creek, but I was having some digestive issues and we took a shorter path out. Earlier this month we hiked to Lost Cove NC. I still have a tab open on my computer because I "intend" to give a trip report.... when I get time. Likewise for a Forney Ridge/Noland Creek/Noland Divide hike. But the daily chores, and the garden, chasing coyotes away from my henhouse, and all the projects I've started, and books I wanna read, etc - just gets in the way. I wish I was more disciplined.
4. Facebook does have some active discussion, but as noted by Tipi and others, there's no good way to search a topic. Tiresome to look at.
5. There's a natural falling away of aged members through a decline in health, or reduced opportunity to get out, or death. And there's a natural influx of new members seeking information and guidance or friendship. It's interesting to think about the flow of people through the forum over time. Shortly after I joined WB back in 2012 I started a threa (https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/96329-Life-after-whiteblaze-Is-it-a-temporary-obsession/page6)d about Life After WhiteBlaze. I noticed how I would occasionally see posts from members who had been here for years, but never said much of anything. A few posted prolifically and then poof, just disappeared.
In a couple weeks we'll be hiking a GSMNP loop going from Clingman's to Siler's Bald down Hazel, side trip to High Rocks, west on Cold Springs over to CS 83, explore Bone Valley, then up Welch Ridge, back to Siler's Bald and Clingman's Dome. Some of it looks tough, but it oughta be interesting.
Sometime this fall we're planning to do an off-trail excursion near CS 44. I've read some interesting accounts of Three Forks. I'm not sure that I'm brave enough to venture that far off trail, but I think we might be safe going up and back on Breakneck Ridge.
For both of these trips, I have the information I need, so I don't really need to start up a new thread. But maybe I'll get a trip report posted.
Just seems like there have been a lot of frequent posters stop posting altogether in the last year or two, with no new frequent posters coming in to take their place. I suspect the frequent posters who’ve stopped posting are no longer as into backpacking as they once were, and folks just getting into backpacking are already familiar with Facebook and Reddit so they just head to those place’s backpacking communities. I would imagine this trend is true of all hobby forums, not just backpacking.
The quality of discussion here is vastly superior to Reddit and especially FB. But I’ve tried to get some backpacking buddies into WB and frankly the concept of a forum like this is just pretty foreign to them and they just don’t give it a try, despite its advantages. This place is such a valuable source of knowledge with the search function and the diversity of users, it’s still my preferred backpacking discussion forum.
I think this place could use a lot more trip reports. Those are few and far between but generally create some good discussion.
Jonnycat
05-31-2021, 14:20
Youtube seems to be excellent resource in an entertaining format for beginners to find gear recommendations...
Entertaining, perhaps, but damn near everyone posting on YT is doing so in hopes of either money or fame (or both), and I actively avoid that like the plague. Call me old fashioned, but I still find that forums like WB, with actual people who are posting just to be decent people, to be the best place for reading about someone else's experience with gear.
Tipi Walter
05-31-2021, 14:31
Youtube seems to be excellent resource in an entertaining format for beginners to find gear recommendations, and others to learn about hikes, techniques, etc. I spend a larger proportion of time there than than here now. Facebook is a wasteland of crap content and worthless discussions.
Youtube only works if you're willing to sit around and watch backpacking videos. I need TEXT and alot of it so I can print it and take it out with me to read in my tent (and then burn).
One excellent forum is BackpackingLight.com. BPL.com. They 90% stick to pure backpacking subjects (unlike Backpacker's Basecamp from Backpacker Magazine)---and even tho with my heavy pack weights I still post alot of stuff even tho I get alot of Fat Shaming there.
If you met someone on the trail who wanted to learn about thru hiking, would you refer them to Whiteblaze, or one of Dixie’s videos on YouTube?
Might be the answer.
TwoSpirits
05-31-2021, 16:31
I enjoy a few YouTube hikers -- but the emphasis here is on "few", because sitting and watching videos takes valuable time out of the day. I watch YouTube hikers that show me parts of the trail I want to see, or who are able to convey a sense of what a given part of the trail looks or feels like at a given part of the year. Some are more informative than others, a rare few might be engaging and entertaining AND informative, but I can't say that I would look to anyone on YouTube for answers to any of my questions about gear, technique, advice, etc. Sure, sometimes someone might drop a nugget worth taking note, but if I'm ever asked by anyone "YouTube or Whiteblaze?", it will be Whiteblaze every time. For me, YouTube is entertainment, Whiteblaze is information.
That being said, I've often seen new people come here with their questions only to be told (often but not always with some rather biting snark) that their questions are essentially old & boring, and that they should just use the Search function. Small wonder they might turn somewhere else.
I would imagine a lot of people are like me, fascinated by your trips but dont feel like there is much I can say that is germane. You are literally at another level both in terms of trip length and skills/knowledge compared to most (or at least a lot) of the people here. Beyond that, you are just hardcore and there is no substitute for that...its not something one can ask questions about or learn by talking about it...that is learned by trying and doing.
All I can say is it will be a sad day when you dont post, WB wont be the same without Tipi so please dont take a lack of comments to be more than slack jawed amazement and enjoyment of your exploits.
If I post a trip report on my FB page it'll be buried in a few days if I put up several other posts. But like with Whiteblaze, my trip reports on FB get very few comments. WB and FB share this in common.
Iam not going to lie to you FB syphoned off most of your hikers..The former thru hikers are on there and section hikers. I havent been on whiteblaze in 4 years. I came back to see what was happening to it..The other reason is over moderated..less moderation on the FB pages that are class pages. The main AT page is the moderater way or no way. 10 k was posting weekly when I fist joined to include Sgt Rock and Blistful I can name old whiteblaze hikers that are on FB that post there. But this is a great resource for any hiker on the AT.
Youtube only works if you're willing to sit around and watch backpacking videos. I need TEXT and alot of it so I can print it and take it out with me to read in my tent (and then burn).
One excellent forum is BackpackingLight.com. BPL.com. They 90% stick to pure backpacking subjects (unlike Backpacker's Basecamp from Backpacker Magazine)---and even tho with my heavy pack weights I still post alot of stuff even tho I get alot of Fat Shaming there but I've never been kicked off unlike the Ultralight Forum here on WB.
I watch youtube for how their handling the trail and weather..Today I watched a vlogger complain because there was no zipline in the section they were hiking I told them next time your near a ttrail club look at their age or ask them what the average age of members are. I wanted to shut them up and tall them to just hike. But yes here and BL are good for returning TO A Subject line and topic research.
Slo-go'en
05-31-2021, 20:07
An issue which just occurred to me is that this format is more suited to desktop PC's then it is for phones and a lot of people now use a phone exclusively. Trailjournals was a real pain to use with a phone until they updated the format a couple years ago. Try opening WB on a phone's browser. Kind of hard to do anything since the page is shrunk so small.
Jonnycat
05-31-2021, 21:18
Today I watched a vlogger...
Not to go on a rant, because I certainly don't wantto go on a rant, but what is with the narcissism of the current generation of kids? "Look at me!" "Watch the documentary of me starring me!" "I am doing something!". I mean it's one thing to take pictures of (or write works to describe) your trip, but the constant presence and immediacy of networked cell phones coupled with the proliferation of self-focused media seems to me to just cheapen the experience.
Maybe I'm just showing my age (or maybe it's just me being an antisocial luddite who doesn't read other people's trip reports), but whatever happened to just enjoying the hike for the purpose of the hike without turning it into nothing more than content for a show you are producing? Do people actually do things for themselves anymore, or is everything just a constant search for public recognition?
I would imagine their parents are happy that they are documenting their every footfall and "OMG look a frog" moment so they can be assured their loved ones are safe, but I think they are missing something that is unique to the trail experience (the sense of discovery) that you really can't get anywhere else, and those things should just stay on the trail for the next person to discover on their own. Maybe this is the 15 minutes of fame that Andy Warhol warned us about, I dunno.
Yes, I know that someone is going to say that I should just HMOH and let them HTOH, but when the journey is treated as nothing more than public content, it loses a lot of the essence of what has traditionally made it a unique experience, and what many of us perceive as an inner calling that pushes us "out there" with a voice that we cannot resist.
I'd better stop now before I end up going on a rant. :D
Maineiac64
05-31-2021, 21:19
Here are some interesting stats:
- whiteblaze members 76,000
- fb north georgia hiking group, 92,000
- darwin YouTube subscribers, 300k
- dixie YouTube subscribers, 360k
I do agree that this page is not optimized for phones, I have to switch to desktop mide on my phone to use it, this cuts down my activity and im sure others.
Not to go on a rant, because I certainly don't wantto go on a rant, but what is with the narcissism of the current generation of kids? "Look at me!" "Watch the documentary of me starring me!" "I am doing something!". I mean it's one thing to take pictures of (or write works to describe) your trip, but the constant presence and immediacy of networked cell phones coupled with the proliferation of self-focused media seems to me to just cheapen the experience.
Maybe I'm just showing my age (or maybe it's just me being an antisocial luddite who doesn't read other people's trip reports), but whatever happened to just enjoying the hike for the purpose of the hike without turning it into nothing more than content for a show you are producing? Do people actually do things for themselves anymore, or is everything just a constant search for public recognition?
I would imagine their parents are happy that they are documenting their every footfall and "OMG look a frog" moment so they can be assured their loved ones are safe, but I think they are missing something that is unique to the trail experience (the sense of discovery) that you really can't get anywhere else, and those things should just stay on the trail for the next person to discover on their own. Maybe this is the 15 minutes of fame that Andy Warhol warned us about, I dunno.
Yes, I know that someone is going to say that I should just HMOH and let them HTOH, but when the journey is treated as nothing more than public content, it loses a lot of the essence of what has traditionally made it a unique experience, and what many of us perceive as an inner calling that pushes us "out there" with a voice that we cannot resist.
I'd better stop now before I end up going on a rant. :D
its interesting because a former thru Hiker asked how many hikers will turn off their devices. When I was doing my lash I took picture for the first 3 days and put them on instagram. Then I stopped all together.It was my hike and for me not the public. So I can identify with what your saying.
Here are some interesting stats:
- whiteblaze members 76,000
- fb north georgia hiking group, 92,000
- darwin YouTube subscribers, 300k
- dixie YouTube subscribers, 360k
I do agree that this page is not optimized for phones, I have to switch to desktop mide on my phone to use it, this cuts down my activity and im sure others.
Agree I use my computer for this page...I was omn Fb with phone found out the people from dutchgear were on the trail hiking then before heading home they did Trail magic for hikers in Virginia...Wouldnt have heard about it that day had it not been for my phone and FB.
its interesting because a former thru Hiker asked how many hikers will turn off their devices. When I was doing my lash I took picture for the first 3 days and put them on instagram. Then I stopped all together.It was my hike and for me not the public. So I can identify with what your saying.
Double ditto. And perhaps that’s why I don’t get much out of even the useful you tubers, there is still so much self referential bs. Here, despite some limitations it is mostly about the subject matter. Maybe I’m a Luddite too.
Forums in general are "down" in activity. Social media.....
There are some numbers being thrown around in this thread that I take with the "Grain of salt".
Currently (Memorial day 2021, evening, 9:45 PM CST) there are something like 20 "users" on. But the total count is over 500. So 480 "Bots" and "Google Spyders" and spammers launching attacks.
There was a note of the all time high. Also, not an actual number. Probably after a major recovery of the forum after some trauma or a major update when the install/update program slammed in all the users all at once.
Also, this is like many forums. IMHO, the Admin should be running a quarterly "trim" function. Any "user" that has zero posts and has not been logged on in 366 days, gets removed (NOTE, the ZERO posts). I used to run such trims on some non-hiking forums I was a Mod/Admin at. Many competing forums won't run them and yet would sit there bragging about "We got MORE users". Occasionally I'd get sick of it and add back in 100,000 users and rub their nose in it.
So to me, CONTENT over quantity.
And yes things like FB and Twitter, are zero help to me on doing a search to find something from two months back when I KNOW someone much smarter had a great idea/solution.
These are all just my personal observations of not only this, but many other forums.
Tuxhiker
05-31-2021, 22:55
I haven't posted in a while because I can't get out and, therefore, feel I don't have much to contribute at the present time. I am recovering from heart bypass surgery and probably won't be getting out again till fall. Yes, I'm one of the aging whiteblazers. Maybe you'll hear from me again in a few months. Meanwhile, I check in every day to read the new posts. Hope others keep them coming!
cliffordbarnabus
06-01-2021, 00:44
Seams real.
YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, Instagram and all the rest, have siphoned off much of the energy of sites like these.
TLDR is real for stuff that matters, and even more so for hiking stuff.
what's "TLDR"?
Alligator
06-01-2021, 03:33
Just a reminder. Whiteblaze still has a user agreement which has pretty much stayed the same for about 13 years now, perhaps longer even. Bringing up previous moderation generally breaks
3. Topics that have been closed, deleted, or moved by an Administrator or Moderator have been done for a reason. Users will not open new threads on the same subject or continue to make posts about subjects that have had these actions taken. Failing to comply with this policy can result in being placed into moderated status.Yes we do enforce the user agreement, the same as we have done for the past 13 years. Doesn't matter who you are, whether we like you or don't. If you break the rules, you are subject to being moderated. Absolutely nothing new in that.
We don't have social media influencers.
We don't have followers.
We only ask for 10 characters but you can also write quite extensively if you choose, I'm sure you can find some obvious candidates who do.
We have a pretty extensive hierarchy to the forums for categorization of hiking topics. Now if everyone would stop dropping everything into AT General...
We don't have a 100,000 members or a million followers. But we are closing in on 2,000,000 posts. They certainly aren't all chit-chat.
People's attention is so divided among so many competing "notifications" and the one that pings the loudest at them is social media. People are constantly texting, they can't even punctuate, let alone construct a paragraph. They want everything right now. Wait a day to get an answer to a question and they get the jitters.
I think perhaps a like button could potentially smooth and encourage some topics. It's also a slippery slope.
TLDR = "Too Long, didn't read"
A symbol of the culture of Facebook, Youtube, and other toxic social media that encourages surface level superficial thinking, groupthink, etc.
I would imagine a lot of people are like me, fascinated by your trips but dont feel like there is much I can say that is germane. You are literally at another level both in terms of trip length and skills/knowledge compared to most (or at least a lot) of the people here. Beyond that, you are just hardcore and there is no substitute for that...its not something one can ask questions about or learn by talking about it...that is learned by trying and doing.
All I can say is it will be a sad day when you dont post, WB wont be the same without Tipi so please dont take a lack of comments to be more than slack jawed amazement and enjoyment of your exploits.
I feel the same, not much I can add to those. But very much appreciate your voice in the wilderness, in more ways than one.
Maineiac64
06-01-2021, 06:36
The problem with FB is, once again, deep scrolling with no "forum subject" as mentioned. If someone posts a FB trip report on Cohutta wilderness and I'm not online for two weeks---when I get back it'll be buried deep on the "timeline" or whatever it's called and I'll miss
If I post a trip report on my FB page it'll be buried in a few days if I put up several other posts. But like with Whiteblaze, my trip reports on FB get very few comments. WB and FB share this in common.
If you did a video trip report on YouTube you would get thousands of views and hundreds of comments.
I’d also like to speak in defense of the moderators, especially on COVID. While I agree that the moderation was biased a bit in the direction I favor, the reason I liked it was it kept this place focused on hiking, and kept things from slipping into the all caps world of the elephantine vs the asinine.
cneill13
06-01-2021, 10:39
I blame the WB moderators. Too strict, shut down on-going discussions.
That is why I quit posting and giving financial support to WB.
PatmanTN
06-01-2021, 11:28
Interesting, FWIW, I've gotta say that the only posts I've had deleted by a moderator were justifiably deleted. I'm an "anti-horse-ite" and had nothing positive to add to a good-faith discussion on hikers and riders. I just couldn't help myself and had to dig at them with negative comments.
PS Get your lazy butt off the animal and hike up the mountain yourself. :)
I believe forum maturity & consolidation of hiking ideas is a driving force for the lower number of posts. Last week I did a WB topic search and took note of the intensity of some of the older posts. WB could be contentious, but there was a lot of passion in some of the posts.
Maybe my view is skewed, but it's harder to find discussions on the less popular hiking modes (e.g. tarping, alcohol stoves) & less popular equipment makers. Information on the internet also streamlines our thru hikes, making fewer aspects of the hike up in the air and less to talk about.
Dan Roper
06-01-2021, 11:59
I unintentionally but regularly (for awhile) got crossways with the moderator, but he used good and consistent judgment in drastically limiting comments about COVID, including mine. Other websites/online communities that weren't as careful ended up seeing their communities fracture over COVID-related topics.
The decline in WB use has nothing to do with the moderator. It has everything to do with the aging of the community and the proliferation of hand-held devices. WB (and many other websites) were built for the PC rather than the Smartphone. All the younger folks (and plenty of older ones) are posting to Guthooks, YouTube and Facebook. I don't have a Smartphone, so I'll be among the final hanging around the old, made-for-PC websites. :)
I blame the WB moderators. Too strict, shut down on-going discussions.
That is why I quit posting and giving financial support to WB.
You quit? It's hard to tell.
Alligator
06-01-2021, 12:27
I blame the WB moderators. Too strict, shut down on-going discussions.
That is why I quit posting and giving financial support to WB.Yet you are still here, and to put it bluntly utilizing the web site for free. Which is to say, you are complaining about the rules on a free website that you point your browser to where the rules haven't changed since you joined. I'll let you in on a secret folks, even banned members keep trying to join and come back and visit rather frequently even. It's always the same gripe. For 13 YEARS (Sorry HankIV). The user agreement is the same, the moderation is the same. If you want drama go to an unmoderated forum. How many AT hiking groups on FB? It's hard to keep count with the censored and uncensored versions. If you want to be more like FB or other unmoderated forums, you are going to get the drama that goes with it. If you need to be plugged in 24/7, this is not a Twitter feed or a FB wall. It is a forum with structure. If you want to talk about hiking the AT, you are in the right place. All you have to do is follow the user agreement, which starts with
These rules are designed to make WhiteBlaze useful and enjoyable. Please follow them. As you do, please keep in mind that the purpose of WhiteBlaze is to foster a sense of friendship and community among its members. Behavior that is contrary to that sense of community is not welcome here, and will not be tolerated by WhiteBlaze.
If you are are gratuitously insulting people, not cool. If you think you are some elite crack hiker mountaineer that's cool but try not to speak less of the common hiker or act like yours is "the Way".
Since I'm not here to collect followers or create a cult of personality, it's up to you to talk about hiking, so talk away. Plan a trip, ask questions, be respectful, and leave the moderation out of it please. Thank you.
Tipi Walter
06-01-2021, 12:41
Yet you are still here, and to put it bluntly utilizing the web site for free. Which is to say, you are complaining about the rules on a free website that you point your browser to where the rules haven't changed since you joined. .
I see the "free website" argument a different way. Many posters here have a vast amount of backpacking experience which they offer to Whiteblaze for free.
Tipi Walter
06-01-2021, 12:53
If you did a video trip report on YouTube you would get thousands of views and hundreds of comments.
This is gonna sound odd but I think still pictures with exhaustive captions offer interested people more facts and information and visual clues than a backpacking YouTube video. This is why some FB posts are so relevant when concerned with specific areas like Cohutta wilderness or BMT trail or Slickrock Creek etc. Plus, in the FB comment section you can add your own detailed pics of the places mentioned. Think of each FB post like an individual WB thread---with comments to follow.
Problem is, FB has no subject organization and secondly material gets shunted (buried) in deep scrolling as mentioned.
LittleRock
06-01-2021, 12:57
Back to the original topic - one major reason I think there are fewer posts now is Guthooks. There used to be lots of posts asking about trail conditions, water availability, etc. on WB. Those posts are few and far between now. It's a lot easier to just find the location in Guthooks and read the user comments.
This forum is still very useful for general backpacking and gear related advice. While these threads are useful, they can also get repetitive. (How many times has the food hanging debate been re-hashed?) I've spoken my piece on a fair number of these threads over the years and don't see any need to do so a second or third time.
The search feature here is as good as any forum I've seen. Lots of old threads out there that are still very much worth reading now.
Tipi Walter
06-01-2021, 13:01
The search feature here is as good as any forum I've seen. Lots of old threads out there that are still very much worth reading now.
Your comment reminds me of the time about 10 years ago when WB installed an upgrade and all my old trip reports (with pictures!) got permanently deleted. Everyone's did.
Alligator
06-01-2021, 13:18
I see the "free website" argument a different way. Many posters here have a vast amount of backpacking experience which they offer to Whiteblaze for free.And the forum is provided for free as well, with donating members expected to follow the rules the same as regular members. Donating/not donating is not the point here though. The point is, people that complain about the moderation still point their browser here to read about the AT and hiking, even when they're banned which is what you cut out when you selectively quoted me.
stephanD
06-01-2021, 13:49
I see the "free website" argument a different way. Many posters here have a vast amount of backpacking experience which they offer to Whiteblaze for free.
They don't offer their backpacking experience to "Whiteblaze". They offer it to other hikers for free and that is the beauty of it.
stephanD
06-01-2021, 13:58
I blame the WB moderators. Too strict, shut down on-going discussions.
That is why I quit posting and giving financial support to WB.
I have similar sentiments as yours sometimes but..........let not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Are you going to sacrifice the entire site just because they remove a comment of yours (or mine)?
hopetofinish
06-01-2021, 15:25
Quite the interesting discussion!
I post very little, mostly around trip planning, re water/campsites. Not sure what I would do without the shuttle and hostel/lodging information that WB keeps up to date. Those pages are vital to me as a section hiker.
As a single, retiree, I find WB to be a friendly companion that I have lunch with, almost daily. Always good information!
I unintentionally but regularly (for awhile) got crossways with the moderator, but he used good and consistent judgment in drastically limiting comments about COVID, including mine. Other websites/online communities that weren't as careful ended up seeing their communities fracture over COVID-related topics.
The decline in WB use has nothing to do with the moderator. It has everything to do with the aging of the community and the proliferation of hand-held devices. WB (and many other websites) were built for the PC rather than the Smartphone. All the younger folks (and plenty of older ones) are posting to Guthooks, YouTube and Facebook. I don't have a Smartphone, so I'll be among the final hanging around the old, made-for-PC websites. :)
I think you hit it on the head and so did alligator on his first post. BUt yea I agree with you. I returned to see and research some info this year. Gutthooks came along in 2014 on 2015 I had ity didnt use it. still dont. Ehy do I need to look at the comment section on Gutthooks on water sources. I dont i can ration my water as normal and look at a source thats in a guide book just as easy. So I enjoy actually staying off my phone...
The point is, people that complain about the moderation still point their browser here to read about the AT and hiking, even when they're banned which is what you cut out when you selectively quoted me.
I am very grateful WB is no longer a place for left vs right debate.
Given the Mods wisdom in exorcising that from the forum, I can pretty much overlook any small oversteps on other things.
It would not be an overstatement to suggest that moderation saved White Blaze as a good resource for the AT community, IMHO.
Jonnycat
06-01-2021, 19:05
I can ration my water as normal and look at a source that's in a guide book just as easy. So I enjoy actually staying off my phone...
I also use date from a guidebook and I always take a map and compass (sometimes I like to wander). I also frequently talk to other hikers about water sources if there is a long dry stretch ahead. You can get a lot of up to date information from just talking to people coming the other way.
I also use date from a guidebook and I always take a map and compass (sometimes I like to wander). I also frequently talk to other hikers about water sources if there is a long dry stretch ahead. You can get a lot of up to date information from just talking to people coming the other way.
I am not going to tell you a false but i do take my phone. It seems now you have to call ahead as opposed where we just hiked up to a hostel do to covid. But yoour totally right all you need to do is ask other hikers coming the opposite direction or just shoot the breeze. The last time i saw a map on the AT was a returned vet renger doing a thru in 2015 and we all around him were checking it out..Most hikers now if their just getting into Backpacking their lost on Navigation. I like to get a rational Poll of how many accidents and emergencys do to inreach now...
...still pictures with exhaustive captions offer interested people more facts and information and visual clues than a backpacking YouTube video. .
Hear, hear! And thanks
prob the last its no diff then any yr in many ways a lot of hikers are inteverts anyway,kyhipo
Jonnycat
06-02-2021, 00:35
I am not going to tell you a false but i do take my phone.
Likewise; they are useful on the road or just to check in from time to time, but that's about it. I do have Osmand with the contour lines installed on the phone in case I were to ever need it, but 99.99% of the time it just lives in the pack.
That having been said, if I was going to sail around the world I would definitely have a full compliment of electronic nav devices, but not out hiking on the trail.
As a young-ish person who tries to dip their hands in everything at the buffet, I go to different sites for different types of content. WB is and will always be THE comprehensive experiential platform for AT thru hikers. The amount of knowledge here is staggering and many times I've had to step away during my research on old threads just to try and wrap my head around the sheer volume of information that is covered.
I go to YT for entertainment's sake--if it's late and I'm tired and I just want to look at pretty trail videos. I very seldom watch How-to videos on YT because I feel that just one person droning on to a camera is less thorough than a forum with a multitude of diverse experiences. I follow FB hiking groups but you tend to see a lot of the same content posted again and again ad infinitum. Instagram is great if you're good at photography and/or photogenic but for the most part it's incredibly vapid and dull.
I would argue that sites like The Trek have given a lot of younger hikers the idea that what they're doing needs to be chronicled 24/7 and WB is not conducive to that. Additionally I think the comments section on Guthook has taken away some of the "current event" posters who like to stay up-to-date on specific sections of specific trails.
I come to WB if I have questions and I'm serious about finding an answer.
Likewise; they are useful on the road or just to check in from time to time, but that's about it. I do have Osmand with the contour lines installed on the phone in case I were to ever need it, but 99.99% of the time it just lives in the pack.
That having been said, if I was going to sail around the world I would definitely have a full compliment of electronic nav devices, but not out hiking on the trail.
Exactly it has it purpose. I was in communications in the military. Last thing I want is to be on the phone...IYour correct on navigation on water...But yeah I prefer a compass that how we did our jobs 95 % of the time...
TwoSpirits
06-02-2021, 06:20
As a young-ish person who tries to dip their hands in everything at the buffet, I go to different sites for different types of content. WB is and will always be THE comprehensive experiential platform for AT thru hikers. The amount of knowledge here is staggering and many times I've had to step away during my research on old threads just to try and wrap my head around the sheer volume of information that is covered.
I go to YT for entertainment's sake--if it's late and I'm tired and I just want to look at pretty trail videos. I very seldom watch How-to videos on YT because I feel that just one person droning on to a camera is less thorough than a forum with a multitude of diverse experiences. I follow FB hiking groups but you tend to see a lot of the same content posted again and again ad infinitum. Instagram is great if you're good at photography and/or photogenic but for the most part it's incredibly vapid and dull.
I would argue that sites like The Trek have given a lot of younger hikers the idea that what they're doing needs to be chronicled 24/7 and WB is not conducive to that. Additionally I think the comments section on Guthook has taken away some of the "current event" posters who like to stay up-to-date on specific sections of specific trails.
I come to WB if I have questions and I'm serious about finding an answer.Well said.
In regard to the numerous comments I've read in this thread about how this forum isn't "phone friendly", I find myself smiling at the irony. For me, WB long ago became a "phone ONLY" platform, because I access it through the Tapatalk app. These days, I rarely even open my computer (usually only at tax time [emoji853]), but when I do use my computer to visit the WB site, it seems clunky and foreign to me in comparison to the Tapatalk version. So I prefer to use my phone, and I check in countless times everyday -- even when I'm not following a specific thread. Often it's just mindless & reflexive (and yes, that is indicative of me spending waaaay too much time with my phone...that's a different subject), but it's also been a comfort over the last year (or more.) Whiteblaze feels like that bar in "Cheers" -- full of characters, some of whom might make me scratch my head, but I can always walk in and feel like I'm with like-minded souls.
Seatbelt
06-02-2021, 07:53
When I first joined WB I was amazed at the different conversations that took place; verbal fighting from a keyboard. It was entertaining to say the least. At the same time there was great info in many threads. I am thankful that the fighting is no longer tolerated but I guess fewer commentators is a casualty of the needed moderation.
As a young-ish person who tries to dip their hands in everything at the buffet, I go to different sites for different types of content. WB is and will always be THE comprehensive experiential platform for AT thru hikers. The amount of knowledge here is staggering and many times I've had to step away during my research on old threads just to try and wrap my head around the sheer volume of information that is covered.
I go to YT for entertainment's sake--if it's late and I'm tired and I just want to look at pretty trail videos. I very seldom watch How-to videos on YT because I feel that just one person droning on to a camera is less thorough than a forum with a multitude of diverse experiences. I follow FB hiking groups but you tend to see a lot of the same content posted again and again ad infinitum. Instagram is great if you're good at photography and/or photogenic but for the most part it's incredibly vapid and dull.
I would argue that sites like The Trek have given a lot of younger hikers the idea that what they're doing needs to be chronicled 24/7 and WB is not conducive to that. Additionally I think the comments section on Guthook has taken away some of the "current event" posters who like to stay up-to-date on specific sections of specific trails.
I come to WB if I have questions and I'm serious about finding an answer.
I think you hit it correctly the TREK wants them to be online 24/7 I only find one of their hikers worth following this year. They did a fip flop. Your right abiout this being a major source of info..I also looked at what alligator said about the different groups on FB. Hes right its either Modirated or hardly. No inbetween. I had to give details and why I wanted access to the Sobo attemp class page. I told them the truth this year Ill do trail magic two spots in Virginia for the SOBOS. They hike majority solo and dont act entitled...
4eyedbuzzard
06-02-2021, 17:15
I'll second the recommendation to access WB and other similar forums on tapatalk if you're using a phone. Makes navigating the site pretty phone friendly. It only takes a few minutes to learn the ins and outs. There's a free version with small banner ads, and a pay for "VIP" version that's $1 a month that gets rid of the ads.
It seems to me like WhiteBlaze forums have become significantly less active recently when I would have expected Covid followed by spring to bring on more people spending more time thinking and typing about their backpacking passions. AT logistics and information threads seem to be maintaining activity, while general community questions, thoughts, and banter seems to have become dramatically reduced.
1) Is my perception of a decrease in general activity real?
2) If it is real, why?
- I don't perceive a significant change in backpacking as a sport or pastime.
- Any thoughts on why backpackers, as a group, would start spending less time on forums than in the past.
- Has our on-line community started moving its focus to other forums or community activities? If so, which ones and why?
- Have a few critical posters moved onto other things, so the community as a whole is less active?
- Are many of the past active members getting old and tired of talking about the same old stuff, and somehow we aren't attracting new participants? Can we come up with new and still interesting alternative topics?
Anyway, I thought I'd offer up a topic that might be of interest beyond AT logistics.
Feedback is certainly welcome and requested.
Hike on!
It has to be that folks are using their phones to get answers
I remember when new posts were more than 15-20.
I tried Tapatalk today, and yes much easier way to,use the phone for WB. Thanks Two Spirits for the tip.
I would bet that the WB host has lots data about posting frequency, etc. I notice that posts tend to come in waves or cycles - interesting topics get lots of discussion, fewer posts on weekends when (hopefully) many of us are out hiking, etc.
BlackCloud
06-03-2021, 11:13
I don't think it is the profusion of people now using phones to access the web. www.parkstamps.org has a substantially similar forum design and its usage appears to be growing with its membership.
The moderators there do not delete posts. They will directly and publicly respond to posts within a thread that they deem inappropriate and will close a thread if they think things get out of hand.
Americans inherently don't like censorship. Yell at me; but don't silence me b/c I say something you disagree with.
So I believe it is the manner in which WB's user agreement is implemented, and not the technology, that is leading to fewer posts.
Not a fan of WB’s mobile version, so I just toggle it off.
Everyone knows the full-site version is available on their phones, right?
If not, just click on the two A’s at the top of the screen.
I have a small-screen phone and it formats great, with a pinch every now and then.
Not a fan of WB’s mobile version, so I just toggle it off.
Everyone knows the full-site version is available on their phones, right?
If not, just click on the two A’s at the top of the screen.
I have a small-screen phone and it formats great, with a pinch every now and then.
Agreed - I find the full desktop version much more usable on a modern phone than the official mobile interface.
Alligator
06-03-2021, 14:58
I don't think it is the profusion of people now using phones to access the web. www.parkstamps.org (http://www.parkstamps.org) has a substantially similar forum design and its usage appears to be growing with its membership.
The moderators there do not delete posts. They will directly and publicly respond to posts within a thread that they deem inappropriate and will close a thread if they think things get out of hand.
Americans inherently don't like censorship. Yell at me; but don't silence me b/c I say something you disagree with.
So I believe it is the manner in which WB's user agreement is implemented, and not the technology, that is leading to fewer posts.
Since you brought it up, I am only going to respond once about it here and that's it. Some Americans don't really understand censorship as prohibited by the 1st Amendment, which is a perception problem. The 1st Amendment prohibits censorship by the Congress (government). You can be censored by private business, you can be censored in your workplace, you can be censored in a private home, etc., often without any fanfare because there are rules and etiquette in place regarding acceptable speech. For instance, if somebody came and spray painted racist bigoted messages inside or outside your house or business, I suspect the majority of people would repaint. Yet you would be censoring the spray painter.
Simply put, you can't leave every post up that violates the rules (think of the spraypaint issue). It rewards trolling, hijacking, spamming, and offensive posting. It is abundantly clear from examples of leaving offending posts up or arriving late to the thread that certain types of posts will derail threads or have negative impacts on the website. Again though, moderation hasn't changed tactics significantly in over a dozen years. These type of threads always draw out a vocal minority of members who have been moderated versus the thousands who haven't. Our rules are clearly stated, available, and referenced and we do ask that they be followed. If you need to be mad about breaking the rules, be mad at yourself and accept responsibility for your actions.
Alligator
06-03-2021, 15:12
Not a fan of WB’s mobile version, so I just toggle it off.
Everyone knows the full-site version is available on their phones, right?
If not, just click on the two A’s at the top of the screen.
I have a small-screen phone and it formats great, with a pinch every now and then.
Agreed - I find the full desktop version much more usable on a modern phone than the official mobile interface.I prefer to use the desktop version myself because I know where all the website tools are more readily available. So I don't use the mobile version at all really and ATTroll handles website architecture. On other forums and websites though I prefer the full versions too. The mobile and Tapatalk versions differ but I don't know how much so since I don't use Tapatalk.
Traffic Jam
06-04-2021, 10:57
While the ads and memes on FB are annoying, I love having all my groups on one platform.
Jonnycat
06-04-2021, 16:53
Americans inherently don't like censorship. Yell at me; but don't silence me b/c I say something you disagree with.
So I believe it is the manner in which WB's user agreement is implemented, and not the technology, that is leading to fewer posts.
If that was the case, Facebook and Twitter, two sites that regularly delete content, if not entire accounts of people/groups they disagree with, would be out of business.
BlackCloud
06-04-2021, 17:17
If that was the case, Facebook and Twitter, two sites that regularly delete content, if not entire accounts of people/groups they disagree with, would be out of business.
I think there are two differences.
1. FB & Twitter more often just "shadow ban" people by not promoting certain posts. Yes they do expel people as we've seen, but as a % it is statistically irrelevant.
2. They are so large now that there are no alternatives. Here @ WB (and other relatively small forums) you interact w/ the same people over and over again & it's more like a community. Start to dislike the small community and you drift away....
I may very well be incorrect, but I don't think technology is doing it b/c other like forums are growing. It's something else.
gpburdelljr
06-04-2021, 18:08
WB has become unnecessary.
It was never necessary, but it is still useful.
It was never necessary, but it is still useful.
Hiking itself is not necessary.
Hiking itself is not necessary.
I beg to differ.
In the interest of civility, I beg to defer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Traveler
06-05-2021, 07:08
Irrelevancy must be irritating.....
There are many people who cannot stand social media and like a focused forum like WhiteBlaze. I haven’t found the moderation problematic. I was called out one time and it was my fault, in retrospect. I have a blog/website (not hiking related) and can appreciate the moderation challenge. It got to the point where I turned off comments and my forum feature because life’s too short for that kind of thankless work.
WB is no longer as useful as it might have once been. There are a plethora of other sites better geared to current hikers than WB.
TwoSpirits
06-05-2021, 14:19
I can't think of one single source that serves more people with more information, or that covers more topics than Whiteblaze.
Yes, I've found a few things on BPL; I've found good answers on a forum dedicated to the BWCA; I've actually found informative little nuggets in actual books from an actual library...but Whiteblaze is my first choice and, more often than not, my last stop.
But I have to say that I'm not on Facebook, never have been, so I am speaking from ignorance as to what that is like.
TexasBob
06-05-2021, 14:24
WB is no longer as useful as it might have once been. There are a plethora of other sites better geared to current hikers than WB.
Which sites did you have in mind? I would be curious to have a look at them.
5 pages since 5/31. I think the trend may have reversed itself.
May 18 = Blastoff!
Destination: Wyoming.
I will let y’all know how the trip went.
Fingers crossed for a Grand Teton Walkup Backcountry Permit.
Keep the resurgence in discussion going!
Cheers!
Wayne
Which sites did you have in mind? I would be curious to have a look at them.
For those with attention deficits wanting a hand held terse "quick and dirty" preparatory approach few do it as well as Paul. https://pmags.com/a-quick-and-dirty-guide-to-the-appalachian-trail There are some good AT section and thru hiking articles here on WB, for example, Jack Tarlin's resupply method(s) article and Carrot Tops(?) how to do an inexpensive AT hike. The problem with WB is the info becomes mountainous for Newbies to digest with so many dissenting opinion oriented posts that it makes it difficult to know which opinions apply and which info should be held in lighter or no personal regard.
Many note little attention given to trails other than the AT and maybe PCT. Many note little interest in trip reports. The Walking In Nature's World threads regarding the duo walking across Europe are but one example. The UL Forum still often devolves into a debate about the merits of UL or about non UL preferences. This is not the site for in depth UL gear, tactics or logistical discussion. FKT, speed hiking, and fast packing gets debated more in posts on some threads than meaningful related discussion. I suspect the avg age of posters to be above 40 yrs here as well making for overall older opinions not commensurate with Gen Y attitudes. WB poster demographics I suspect are a tight narrowed bell curve. Posters often go off on unfocused tangents from the original topic sometimes left that way for too long before being moderated. Many have said there is a PC mod bias and have left.
MtDoraDave
06-07-2021, 06:59
Youtube seems to be excellent resource in an entertaining format for beginners to find gear recommendations, and others to learn about hikes, techniques, etc. I spend a larger proportion of time there than than here now. Facebook is a wasteland of crap content and worthless discussions.
I think youtube AND facebook is the answer.
I joined the AT group on fb last year or the year before. It is like the general section here used to be; newbies asking the "what's the best _______" , followed soon by someone saying "use the search feature".
I got banned when someone asked a firearm question - I answered factually, giving the op the answer he needed to help make his decision. They have a very strict no firearm discussion rule, so I got hit with the ban hammer.
I have been following Dixie's Homemade Wanderlust channel on FB as she hikes the FL trail this year - and admit I watched several of her older videos where she goes over, quite thoroughly, many of the topics/ questions that newbies tend to ask when they join a forum. Darwin, Kyle hates hiking, and several others have hiking/ AT related youtube channels.
4eyedbuzzard
06-07-2021, 20:10
While some here on WB are known in the hiking community, most members are anonymous. One of the problems with FB is that, unlike WB, names are mostly verified. As such, posting details of travel, planned trips, trips in progress, etc., is a big security risk. Some may scoff at this, but the world is full of criminals and creeps, and it's best not to make their job easier. You can ask questions here on WB about an upcoming hike, dates, times, travel itineraries/arrangements, etc. without tying it to your real identity. Do it on FB and someone with a little effort and internet smarts could find your identity, address, etc., within minutes just using public records.
stephanD
06-08-2021, 09:49
WB is no longer as useful as it might have once been. There are a plethora of other sites better geared to current hikers than WB.
There's no a "plethora" of other sites, unless we live in parallel universes....there are gear oriented sites like 'Section Hiker' and some personal blogs and then there's YouTube.
Tipi Walter
06-08-2021, 10:04
There's no a "plethora" of other sites, unless we live in parallel universes....there are gear oriented sites like 'Section Hiker' and some personal blogs and then there's YouTube.
I agree---there are very few pure backpacking forums that get any amount of decent traffic. Section Hiker is not really a forum and his Comments section is subject to censorship if you post links to other reviews of a product he's reviewing.
stephanD
06-08-2021, 12:50
Strangely enough, people are most critical towards what is given to them for free. Most users of this forum, as we all can see, do not contribute a dime to it. It is maintained and operated out of love of hikers and hiking I believe, not for profit. So even if it not perfect, it's what we have. My own advise to the operators of WB is that they should be more proactive in attracting the young generation as the median age of a typical WB user is probably closer to my age.
More of an interactive sports on Facebook about hiking. Attroll needs to improve this a bit
peakbagger
06-09-2021, 12:55
BTW, I and many others do "contribute a dime". It may not make profit but I do not think Whiteblaze is registered as a non profit.
Facebook is definitely not free, its just most people do not understand that the personal information they supply aggregated with their activity is a valuable product that Facebook markets. The users are the product.
BlackCloud
06-09-2021, 14:55
The users are the product.
Orwellian, and true.
Facebook is definitely not free, its just most people do not understand that the personal information they supply aggregated with their activity is a valuable product that Facebook markets. The users are the product.
Absolutely true but 99% of people don't realize it. There's nothing free about Facebook.
fastfoxengineering
06-10-2021, 16:43
I check whiteblaze about once every six months. I, personally, don't find much educational value in the posts anymore. It's all fireside chat, which is okay. But for current trip repots, gear advice, or just staying current with hiking news/info... whiteblaze is far behind other resources.
johnnybgood
06-10-2021, 19:38
Like it or not but the “golden age” of thoughtful resourceful conversation has been replaced by a medium that doesn’t require it quite frankly.
The drop off in participation began years ago when older boomers have rhetorically “folded their tents” for old times sake and gone away.
Others, like myself have become lurkers more so than partipants. I have little to offer of substance but enjoy looking through the site for articles and photos of interest.
Its been mentioned,but bears repeating that today’s information driven vehicle is one which doesn’t lend itself to in-depth scouring for answers. New generation hikers probably have little patience in this type of format opting for a search engine ; ie Google for quick answers. The rest of this forum is more conversational which I feel isn’t for everyone.