View Full Version : Winter AT Smokies section hike input….
saltysack
01-06-2022, 10:54
It’s been way too long!!! After doing CT in September I haven’t been back out! Thinking I’ll hit the Smokies AT section with my service pup….bear deterrent…next month. Planning on 4-5 days obviously weather depending. Are spikes typically needed? Few times I’ve carried them on AT never used…only time I’ve been glad to have them was on WRHR…. Any shuttle recs? Assume go south bound as no good parking at Davenport gap that I recall.
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You can easily get into areas in GSMNP where microspikes are, if not absolutely essential, certainly extremely helpful. I'd carry mine there in the winter - no question at all.
It’s been way too long!!! After doing CT in September I haven’t been back out! Thinking I’ll hit the Smokies AT section with my service pup….bear deterrent…next month. Planning on 4-5 days obviously weather depending. Are spikes typically needed? Few times I’ve carried them on AT never used…only time I’ve been glad to have them was on WRHR…. Any shuttle recs? Assume go south bound as no good parking at Davenport gap that I recall.
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I've used Mark at AAA Hiker Shuttle around the Smokies a couple times and would recommend. 423-487-3112. Very knowledgable about the area, interesting conversation.
HooKooDooKu
01-06-2022, 13:14
I've used Mark at AAA Hiker Shuttle around the Smokies a couple times and would recommend. 423-487-3112. Very knowledgable about the area, interesting conversation.
Ditto on Mark... used him myself several times. Always a joy to talk to during the shuttle.
But I've not been able to raise him on either telephone number I've got for him since COVID hit.
The other shuttle service company on the TN side of the park licensed to do shuttles inside the park is AAA Hiker Service. I've used them as well. While their shuttle service did close down for a while because of COVID, they've been running shuttles since about April of last year.
Check with standing bear farm. They used to do shuttles. Not sure if they do shuttles now or not. Like everyone else says take spikes.
Service pup? Do you mean your dog? They are not allowed in the backcountry in the park. They are not allowed in most, if not all, national parks. May want to call about that before making those types of plans. Pets - Great Smoky Mountains National Park (U.S. National Park Service) (nps.gov) (https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/pets.htm)
Here’s a data point on weather at 3,000 feet in North Carolina near the Virginia border:
Thursday through next Sunday:
Light rain begins tonight. 40 degrees this afternoon. Rain changing to snow through the weekend.
Temperature varies between 20s and 12 DEGREES this weekend.
I’m pretty sure that the AT through the Smokies is higher and therefore colder. Freezing rain and ice accumulation brings down limbs and whole trees.
A shuttle either before or after may not be possible due to road conditions.
Remember I-95 earlier in the week?
Good luck!
Wayne
Alligator
01-06-2022, 16:11
Saltysack is your dog a service dog under ADA rules? That is, is it a service animal required because of a disability? (Again, disability as defined under ADA.)
saltysack
01-06-2022, 16:13
Service pup? Do you mean your dog? They are not allowed in the backcountry in the park. They are not allowed in most, if not all, national parks. May want to call about that before making those types of plans. Pets - Great Smoky Mountains National Park (U.S. National Park Service) (nps.gov) (https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/pets.htm)
He’s a service dog. Legit…like it or not
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saltysack
01-06-2022, 16:18
Saltysack is your dog a service dog under ADA rules? That is, is it a service animal required because of a disability? (Again, disability as defined under ADA.)
Yes…performs a task and has been trained extensively.
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Ditto on Mark... used him myself several times. Always a joy to talk to during the shuttle.
But I've not been able to raise him on either telephone number I've got for him since COVID hit.
The other shuttle service company on the TN side of the park licensed to do shuttles inside the park is AAA Hiker Service. I've used them as well. While their shuttle service did close down for a while because of COVID, they've been running shuttles since about April of last year.
Strange, the only two times I’ve used Mark have been since COVID..Now I’m confused, maybe I’ve got the names mixed up. On the AAA Hiker SERVICE website, I see Mark’s number, the one I posted above, listed at the bottom of the website..I don’t see a AAA Hiker SHUTTLE website exists. Maybe they are one in the same now.
Alligator
01-06-2022, 16:25
Yes…performs a task and has been trained extensively.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkGood enough for me. I don't have any need to ask about the task.
You may want to call them to confirm. There is no indication that there are any exceptions, including service animals. Contact info: 865 436-1200
Found the backcountry specific number as well, here's that one: Backcountry Office at 865-436-1297. When you apply for and pay for your backcountry permit, you will have to agree to all the rules and regulations before your permit will be accepted.
One Half
01-07-2022, 08:56
Service animals are allowed anywhere a person is allowed.
https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/service-animals.htm
Where are service dogs allowed to go? (https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/service-animals.htm#collapseCollapsible1540991170865)
Service dogs are legally permitted anywhere that visitors can go. They must be allowed wherever visitors are allowed.
PatmanTN
01-07-2022, 09:14
Hey Salty, I haven't talked to him in quite a while but I've used AAA Hiker service (Mark) many times over the years and also recommend him. He's a great guy.
HooKooDooKu
01-07-2022, 10:26
Strange, the only two times I’ve used Mark have been since COVID..Now I’m confused, maybe I’ve got the names mixed up. On the AAA Hiker SERVICE website, I see Mark’s number, the one I posted above, listed at the bottom of the website..I don’t see a AAA Hiker SHUTTLE website exists. Maybe they are one in the same now.
Yeah, Mark == AAA Hiker Service
I needed a shuttle back in June. One of the last hikes my son had to do to get into the 900 Miler Club was to hike Old Settlers Trail/Grapeyard Ridge/Baxter Creek
I tried getting in contact with Mark/AAA Hker Service by phone, text, and left voice mails, and even tried the email shown on his SHUTTLE webpage.
HooKooDooKu
01-07-2022, 10:33
Service animals are allowed anywhere a person is allowed.
https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/service-animals.htm
Where are service dogs allowed to go? (https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/service-animals.htm#collapseCollapsible1540991170865)
Service dogs are legally permitted anywhere that visitors can go. They must be allowed wherever visitors are allowed.
National Parks used to not allow Service Animals in the back country.
But that changes... perhaps about 5 years ago or so when "the powers that be" directed National Park Superintendents to make efforts to follow the ADA guidelines.
I believe a park Superintendent still has the authority to close all or parts of a National Park to service animals if there some overwhelming justification.
HooKooDooKu
01-07-2022, 13:30
Winter time is fickle in GSMNP
I've looked over the daily history of some of the GSMNP web cams and noticed that during the winter, for any given day, the odds are there isn't any snow on the ground.
Seems like about once every three or four weeks, a snow hits GSMNP. At higher elevations, the snow stays around for about 5 days and is then pretty much gone (except for spots that stay shady most of the day).
The AT itself is pretty dry through much of GSMNP (excluding "muddy" spots where the trail, despite being on the ridge, forms a depression from which water has no were to flow out of).
So if you're not trying to target a specific date and have the flexibility of waiting for a good weather window, it seems possible to hike the AT thru GSMNP in winter with no micro-spikes and safely take a service dog along.
Now I'll admit I have almost no direct experience hiking the AT in GSMNP during the winter... but the one issue I have encountered was a hike I did to Derrick Knob during a warm spell after a snow.
You could still see snow in the shadow areas along the mountain top, but otherwise, most of the snow was melted. What little bit of the AT I hiked on that trip, I didn't encounter any ice, so micro-spikes were not necessary. But the melting snow had left much of the section of AT I was hiking very muddy. You had to take your steps gingerly to avoid slipping in the mud.
We were supposed to get more snow overnight and this morning.
The snow didn’t happen. Clear skies.
But it was 16-18-20 degrees this morning up until about 1pm.
There’s more to winter than just snow.
If the National Park is a problem for your pup, Mt Rogers National Recreation Area might be a viable alternative.
Be warm. Be safe.
Wayne
Alligator
01-07-2022, 15:02
You may want to call them to confirm. There is no indication that there are any exceptions, including service animals. Contact info: 865 436-1200
This is what is says under laws and policies at the park's website (https://www.nps.gov/grsm/learn/management/lawsandpolicies.htm):
Dogs and other pets (except service animals) are prohibited on any park trail except the Gatlinburg Trail and the Oconoluftee River Trail. (Compendium of Regulations, Pets, Section 2.15 (a)(1),
Saltysack's answer to my question is sufficient to identify it as a legal service animal and the park indicates no restriction on this according to their website. The thread is not about service animals, everyone please don't hijack it further on that topic.
Hopefully both Saltysack and the service dog are properly acclimated to winter hiking in general. I hiked the park in the fall so I don't have any specific input regarding winter conditions. Four days through the park might be a bit quick depending on your hiking speed though. I reduce my mileage the most in the winter due to heavier equipment, boots, weather, daylight, etc. There may be road closings too in the winter? Again not much I know about it but I seem to recall a spring trip where a was potentially still closed. Consider your bailout options carefully.
There's no parking at Davenport Gap but down the road, maybe 1-2 miles, is a trailhead or campground or ranger station I forget it's been a while where you can park. There's a side trail off the AT that leads there.
Alligator
01-07-2022, 15:14
We were supposed to get more snow overnight and this morning.
The snow didn’t happen. Clear skies.
But it was 16-18-20 degrees this morning up until about 1pm.
There’s more to winter than just snow.
If the National Park is a problem for your pup, Mt Rogers National Recreation Area might be a viable alternative.
Be warm. Be safe.
WayneCould you perhaps be a little more specific as to where you are? Your profile says Texas:).
Now MT Rogers I've been to in the winter. Less ups and downs offhand, easier walking, easier to bailout if needed. It's a bit of a long shuttle too for GSMNP.
Mike Goodman
01-07-2022, 18:32
Message me here if you need a shuttle. I live pretty close to the East/North end of the Park.
rmitchell
01-08-2022, 14:33
Snow and ice cover can vary a great deal on the AT through the park. On Wednesday 1/5/2022 I was on a day hike with a group that did a loop out of Cosby campground. We went up Snake Den to the AT at Inadu Knob and north to Cosby Knob. In sunny spots there was some bare ground but in the shade on there were drifts of 18 to 20 inches of snow. I carried micro spikes but didn't use mine although some in the group used theirs going down Low Gap.
Six weeks ago I did a loop that included the AT from Sweat Heifer to Dry Sluice Gap (Charlie's Bunion) and didn't carry spikes but wish that I had them then. There were areas of thick sheet ice that we had to detour off trail to avoid.
Could you perhaps be a little more specific as to where you are? Your profile says Texas:).
Now MT Rogers I've been to in the winter. Less ups and downs offhand, easier walking, easier to bailout if needed. It's a bit of a long shuttle too for GSMNP.
I moved from Texas.
Full time resident of Roaring Gap, NC.
The elevation at the house is 3,000’. Winter has been late coming. Temperatures are well below freezing (teens) overnight and daytime in the 20s and 30s.
I’m off to fix my Profile.
Wayne
illabelle
01-09-2022, 08:05
Lots of problems have been reported on social media in recent months with catalytic converters being stolen from vehicles parked at the north end of the park. This would include Davenport Gap, the Big Creek Ranger Station (formerly thought safe), and Maddron Bald trailhead. I do not know if Cosby Campground has had problems. If your trip includes leaving your car at any of these locations, please reconsider.
I moved from Texas.
Full time resident of Roaring Gap, NC.
The elevation at the house is 3,000’. Winter has been late coming. Temperatures are well below freezing (teens) overnight and daytime in the 20s and 30s.
I’m off to fix my Profile.
Wayne
Profile corrected!
Salty,
Your Service Dog will need winter gear. Carhartt makes a sturdy high visibility coat. Our Cavalier is outfitted with a sweater, boots, and Carhartt coat & reflective leash. He loves the snow!
Wayne
HooKooDooKu
01-10-2022, 01:08
Hopefully both Saltysack and the service dog are properly acclimated to winter hiking in general. I hiked the park in the fall so I don't have any specific input regarding winter conditions. Four days through the park might be a bit quick depending on your hiking speed though. I reduce my mileage the most in the winter due to heavier equipment, boots, weather, daylight, etc. There may be road closings too in the winter? Again not much I know about it but I seem to recall a spring trip where a was potentially still closed. Consider your bailout options carefully.
Here's a link with a good elevation profile of the AT thru GSMNP: https://tnlandforms.us/at/gsmnpat.html
If you're looking to do GSMNP in only 4 days (3 nights?), that's an average of about 20 miles per day with an average of 5,000' of elevation gain per day.
There are many roads that are seasonally closed (including the road from New Found Gap to Clingman's Dome). New Found Gap road itself keeps opening and closing since about Christmas due to snow and winds. That could change at any time. If you have to leave GSMNP early, your best exit points (if snow conditions have not closed the roads) include Russle Field and Spence Field shelters down to Cades Cove campground, Derrick Knob down to Tremont, New Found Gap road crossing, and Tricorner down to Cosby (assuming you've been able to contact someone to pick you up when you get to these trailheads).
Slo-go'en
01-12-2022, 22:57
Foot of snow might hit the Smokies this weekend. How long will it last or how much more will come?
If the weather down there looks anything like the long range forecast here a few hours away, it'll be there for several weeks minimum at higher elevations.
Trailweaver
01-13-2022, 02:47
I didn't read all the posts, but I am concerned that - service dog or not - the dog may be attractive to a bear. In the Smokies, the bears don't always have a fear of humans, or of animals, and sometimes see a dog as a threat (or a treat). I would be extremely cautious about taking a dog through the Smokies.
MtDoraDave
01-13-2022, 06:44
This time of year, isn't bear activity minimal? Do they actually hibernate? If so, January and February would be a good time for them to do it.
As far as micro spikes; One of the times I did the Smokies was the third week of March and a Nor'easter came through dropping 6 inches of snow. Hiking in fresh snow was wonderful. The next day, however, after it was packed, partially melted, then re-frozen was sketchy. I fell several times.
.
So yes, bring micro spikes if you are hiking the Smokies in January or February.
Alligator
01-13-2022, 15:50
I didn't read all the posts, but I am concerned that - service dog or not - the dog may be attractive to a bear. In the Smokies, the bears don't always have a fear of humans, or of animals, and sometimes see a dog as a threat (or a treat). I would be extremely cautious about taking a dog through the Smokies.Black bears usually run from dogs. Black bears are pretty scaredy animals. They also aren't as isolated as many think in the Smokies. A recent study showed they range around quite a bit. They are omnivores but vegetation is a significantly large portion of their diet. Black bear predation on dogs is practically nonexistent, about as rare as active predation on people. Both are extremely rare in the Eastern US.
They have been known to stand their ground when attacked by dogs, so always a good idea to use a leash if you can't call the dog off in that type of situation as the dog may end up coming back to you with the bear.
As MtDoraDave points out, not likely to see many in Feb.
PatmanTN
01-14-2022, 11:24
This time of year, isn't bear activity minimal? Do they actually hibernate? If so, January and February would be a good time for them to do it.
As far as micro spikes; One of the times I did the Smokies was the third week of March and a Nor'easter came through dropping 6 inches of snow. Hiking in fresh snow was wonderful. The next day, however, after it was packed, partially melted, then re-frozen was sketchy. I fell several times.
.
So yes, bring micro spikes if you are hiking the Smokies in January or February.
Dave, I go out year 'round in the Smokies and see bear tracks all throughout the winter. Rangers have told me that the males here don't fully hibernate and will wake to roam but are less active than other times.
LittleRock
01-14-2022, 15:25
Once over a decade ago I managed a winter trip on the AT in the Smokies without spikes, but by the end I'd really wished I'd bought some.
Shuttle driver Packrat is awesome. 865 469 1707. Out of Gatlinburg—which is a really surreal place to end up, especially as a SOBO. guy has a cool old Jeep.
HooKooDooKu
01-16-2022, 01:21
Shuttle driver Packrat is awesome. 865 469 1707. Out of Gatlinburg—which is a really surreal place to end up, especially as a SOBO. guy has a cool old Jeep.
Does Packrat have the required permits to offer shuttle services inside GSMNP?
Last time I talked to someone in the back country office on the subject (sometime in Spring 2021), the Tennessee side of the park had only issued permits to "A Walk In The Woods" and "AAA Hiker Service" (Mike).
I don’t know, he got a lot of good comments in Guthooks, and lived up to them for me.
Wolf - 23000
01-19-2022, 22:48
I have gone through the Smokies several times in the winter. The Smokies is one of the few places; you have to be careful about snowfall. Once you get over Clingmans Dome, you will be going downhill as the trail will lose attitude. Before entering the Smokies, check what the forecast is for the next several days. Also, see how frozen the ground was before entering the Smokies. If the ground is hard frozen, it means any new snow will last a long time, and it can be deep. If it is not, the Smokies are less likely to have deep snow, and any new snow is less likely to accumulate.
Wolf
illabelle
01-20-2022, 05:48
Hiker rescued by helicopter from Smokies a couple days ago. Disoriented, hypothermic. Be careful out there, folks!
https://www.knoxvilledailysun.com/news/2022/january/national-park-hiker-rescue.html