Hiker Arrested in Unicoi Gap

[Singletrack]

for opening Lady hikers tents and assaulting them. The police released him on Bond , with Drug charges No one wanted to stay and press charges for assault. He is a large man carrying an ice ax and two knives. His trail name is ICE, James Namkung. He is currently back on the trail, and was camped at Deep Gap on the 5th. He is hiking NOBO.
More information, and a photo can be found at Appalachian Trail Section Hikers Group (Tn/Ga/Nc....) on Facebook. Also, a YouTube Video. titled Deviant Hiker on the Appalachian Trail Arrested but Possible Return to the Trail.
Hikers should beware.

[gpburdelljr]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NzvtBtudnU

[Lone Wolf]

he's back on the trail

[OhioHiker]

Are "werdios" a common occurrence on long trails? Every year I seem to hear about some kind of creeper on PCT or AT...

[martinb]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NzvtBtudnU

Good video and I share his concerns given the Jordan case. This guy seems highly likely to re-offend, soon.

[Shade22]

This is slightly old info now. He sent his ice axe home, and the "knife" in one of the circulating photos is a trowel. As usual on the AT, word spreads fast when there's anyone around that's just slightly off. Pretty much everyone knows about him. Apparently he's carrying 40+ lbs and moving slow, so he should be decently easy to outpace with a little effort. There is a comprehensive Reddit discussion going on here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AppalachianTrail/comments/t7ixsb/ice_is_back_on_trail_seen_at_cheese_factory_ga/

[4eyedbuzzard]

for opening Lady hikers tents and assaulting them. The police released him on Bond , with Drug charges No one wanted to stay and press charges for assault... Deviant Hiker on the Appalachian Trail Arrested but Possible Return to the Trail...Hmm, where have I heard this exact scenario before? Oh, and the inconvenience of having to briefly interrupt one's hike in order to possibly save other hiker's lives.

[Maineiac64]

Are "werdios" a common occurrence on long trails? Every year I seem to hear about some kind of creeper on PCT or AT...
Yup, pretty common.

[Traveler]

Though not taking this fellows side necessarily, there is just not enough information to sort out what happened with this guy beyond third hand information and opinions in forums or a vlog. My guess is he dressed oddly and acted inappropriately around some women who were made uncomfortable and people have taken up the issue with usual crowd verve.

Weird and weirdo are very subjective terms used both in a joking or serious manner. Imagine what some people may think when Tipi Walter comes sauntering down the trail at them with his 80-pound pack, or when someone brings along an "eel in a tube" from Trader Joe to eat around a campfire. I have been called weird for just not being interested in conversation after a long day. I have seen hikers wearing feather boas, gorilla masks, loin cloths, using bindle sticks, and a host of other oddities along the way, so being "weird" on the trail doesn't mean a heck of a lot to me overall. As Shade22 posits, word along the trail spreads quickly when someone is slightly off.

Hard to know what is fact versus fiction in some of these tales, exaggeration being what it is mixed with perhaps lack of experience in dealing with a broad swath of personalities one can find on the trail. Absent a complaint, this is just another AT hiker with an unusual personality, gear selection, and clothing that police discussed the inappropriate issues and found a small amount of drugs in. I know, it's hard to imagine drugs on the AT, what's next, alcohol in bottles? A formal complaint would have been beneficial had the behavior rose to that level.

[dmperkins74]

Ugh, what a crummy way to start an adventure. Feel bad for the hikers who've had to deal with crap like this.

[JNI64]

There's different levels of weirdness like a old wierd dude coming down the trail with a 100 pound monster on his back. But someone outside your tent from 12- 5 am all night outside your tent messing with you doing God knows what is a whole different level of weirdness. Enough in fact to make someone give up a dream and all the planning and money, not the cold,rain,snow no some creep ends the dream.

[ldsailor]

I thought a picture of the subject hiker might help any hikers on the trail if they should happen to come across him.

49138

[Maineiac64]

Though not taking this fellows side necessarily, there is just not enough information to sort out what happened with this guy beyond third hand information and opinions in forums or a vlog. My guess is he dressed oddly and acted inappropriately around some women who were made uncomfortable and people have taken up the issue with usual crowd verve.

Weird and weirdo are very subjective terms used both in a joking or serious manner. Imagine what some people may think when Tipi Walter comes sauntering down the trail at them with his 80-pound pack, or when someone brings along an "eel in a tube" from Trader Joe to eat around a campfire. I have been called weird for just not being interested in conversation after a long day. I have seen hikers wearing feather boas, gorilla masks, loin cloths, using bindle sticks, and a host of other oddities along the way, so being "weird" on the trail doesn't mean a heck of a lot to me overall. As Shade22 posits, word along the trail spreads quickly when someone is slightly off.

Hard to know what is fact versus fiction in some of these tales, exaggeration being what it is mixed with perhaps lack of experience in dealing with a broad swath of personalities one can find on the trail. Absent a complaint, this is just another AT hiker with an unusual personality, gear selection, and clothing that police discussed the inappropriate issues and found a small amount of drugs in. I know, it's hard to imagine drugs on the AT, what's next, alcohol in bottles? A formal complaint would have been beneficial had the behavior rose to that level.

The video I have seen, and reports of him masturbating outside women's’ tents, multiple reports of inappropriately touching people, surely shouldn’t be dismissed. This is more than an odd misunderstood duck. The police should’ve evaluated him a little more closely before turning him back out to society.

[Coffee]

Weird/eccentric is par for the course in the hiking community and part of the charm of a long hike is meeting people leading unconventional lives. There's a huge difference between eccentric and being a creep. As a middle aged man, I don't worry so much about creeps of this type. I can see how women would feel threatened. While it may seem counterintuitive to avoid shelters and populated areas, I think that these types of encounters are less likely when stealth camping out of sight than at shelters, at least during winter when it is more likely to be sharing a shelter with just one other person. This creep wouldn't be able to get away with his BS in April or May -- too many people on trail then.

[stephanD]

Though not taking this fellows side necessarily, there is just not enough information to sort out what happened with this guy beyond third hand information and opinions in forums or a vlog. My guess is he dressed oddly and acted inappropriately around some women who were made uncomfortable and people have taken up the issue with usual crowd verve.

Weird and weirdo are very subjective terms used both in a joking or serious manner. Imagine what some people may think when Tipi Walter comes sauntering down the trail at them with his 80-pound pack, or when someone brings along an "eel in a tube" from Trader Joe to eat around a campfire. I have been called weird for just not being interested in conversation after a long day. I have seen hikers wearing feather boas, gorilla masks, loin cloths, using bindle sticks, and a host of other oddities along the way, so being "weird" on the trail doesn't mean a heck of a lot to me overall. As Shade22 posits, word along the trail spreads quickly when someone is slightly off.

Hard to know what is fact versus fiction in some of these tales, exaggeration being what it is mixed with perhaps lack of experience in dealing with a broad swath of personalities one can find on the trail. Absent a complaint, this is just another AT hiker with an unusual personality, gear selection, and clothing that police discussed the inappropriate issues and found a small amount of drugs in. I know, it's hard to imagine drugs on the AT, what's next, alcohol in bottles? A formal complaint would have been beneficial had the behavior rose to that level.

Would you describe the creep a "eccentric" if it was your daughter's tent he was masturbating in front of?

[martinb]

Though not taking this fellows side necessarily, there is just not enough information to sort out what happened with this guy beyond third hand information and opinions in forums or a vlog. My guess is he dressed oddly and acted inappropriately around some women who were made uncomfortable and people have taken up the issue with usual crowd verve.

Weird and weirdo are very subjective terms used both in a joking or serious manner. Imagine what some people may think when Tipi Walter comes sauntering down the trail at them with his 80-pound pack, or when someone brings along an "eel in a tube" from Trader Joe to eat around a campfire. I have been called weird for just not being interested in conversation after a long day. I have seen hikers wearing feather boas, gorilla masks, loin cloths, using bindle sticks, and a host of other oddities along the way, so being "weird" on the trail doesn't mean a heck of a lot to me overall. As Shade22 posits, word along the trail spreads quickly when someone is slightly off.

Hard to know what is fact versus fiction in some of these tales, exaggeration being what it is mixed with perhaps lack of experience in dealing with a broad swath of personalities one can find on the trail. Absent a complaint, this is just another AT hiker with an unusual personality, gear selection, and clothing that police discussed the inappropriate issues and found a small amount of drugs in. I know, it's hard to imagine drugs on the AT, what's next, alcohol in bottles? A formal complaint would have been beneficial had the behavior rose to that level.


This goes beyond weirdness when police have to be notified and women abandon their hikes.

[chknfngrs]

This appears to be

https://mobile.twitter.com/james_namkung

[hepatica]

Sadly, most women have been honing their "spidey sense" about the dangers posed by men since they were 10 years old. It is part of surviving in this world. If you are part of the more fortunate population that has not had to be 'aware' in this way, then lucky for you. If women are uncomfortable around someone, then we should all pay attention.

[Traveler]

Would you describe the creep a "eccentric" if it was your daughter's tent he was masturbating in front of?
I was pretty clear that I am not taking this fellows side necessarily, the issue was terming someone weird, which is very common and can be based on many things like attire, manner of speech, and mannerisms. Lots of camp gossip flows into and out of the trail community and it's difficult to tell what is fact or fiction. The complaint, however cuts through a lot of that and gives police a tool that can be used to investigate and/or make an arrest. To answer the question, if the event(s) reported had occurred, my daughter would have been responsible and filed a complaint so arrest after investigation would be enabled and this fellow could have gotten a harder look if not a trial and possible jail time.

Separating fact from fiction in these trail stories is difficult, we have all heard these in different forms from the stalker with a hook for a hand campfire tale to the "beware of" snippets we get from people we pass. One of the best ways to deal with this kind of thing is to have first hand witnesses swear out a formal complaint, which attests (under penalty of perjury) the events related in the complaint are true and will be testified to in court. Of course there are any number of reasons why no one has filed a legal complaint; people not wanting to be involved, the event(s) may not have been actually witnessed/experienced by the complainant, the events as described may not have actually occurred or are speculative/exaggerated beyond factual support, retaliation concerns, time away from work/vacation being a few of them. However, as has been pointed out in this thread, had a complaint been filed against Jim Jordan in 2019 prior to the killing of Ron Sanchez, things may have worked out differently.

I don't defend this guy per se, I'm sure something happened along the way that was either lascivious behavior or was mistaken for it. That no one had the fortitude to file a complaint tells me there is likely less to this than third party information would suggest, but that's just my read. Others have a different read on this, which I respect.

Clearly LEO responded, found this guy and were able to secure an arrest for what appears to be a low level drug offense. I am positive if police had knowledge of the alleged events they would have had a few "discussions" with his fellow about his behavior to see if there was a confession of some sort or statements enough to arrest on lascivious charges. Apparently there was not and he was released following successful bail application from the drug charge. My guess is after the LEO encounter, arrest, arraignment and bail, we have probably heard the last of this fellow.

A formal complaint would have greatly insured that.

[OhioHiker]

I didn’t mean to create tension guys, peace and love… peace and love.

I used the term weirdo freely. I think we can all agree anyone that wants to live in the woods and walk 10+ miles a day for 5+ months is slightly not normal. Hahaha. ;)

By weirdo I was suggesting someone doing deviant type activities.

[JNI64]

Whatever he did it was enough for two women to end their hikes and that in itself speaks volumes. Most folks going out on the AT know that they are going to have to put up with some stuff they don't agree with but to call it and get a plane ride home because of the actions of 1 person. Not cool.
And besides even if he went to court and was found guilty nothing is going to happen to him.

[JNI64]

I thought a picture of the subject hiker might help any hikers on the trail if they should happen to come across him.

49138

How funny would that be if karma stepped in and he tripped and fell and that big yellow shiv, or whatever that's took away his most valued possession!! :)

[JNI64]

And the big belly,big wooden walking sticks, the joint hanging out of his mouth and the what's up with that jacket?

[gpburdelljr]

And the big belly,big wooden walking sticks, the joint hanging out of his mouth and the what's up with that jacket?
What does a big belly, jacket, and wood walking sticks have to do with his behavior, and arrest, which is the subject of this thread. Also, how do you know that’s a joint in his mouth.
Lets stay on topic, please.

[JNI64]

What does a big belly, jacket, and wood walking sticks have to do with his behavior, and arrest, which is the subject of this thread. Also, how do you know that’s a joint in his mouth.
Lets stay on topic, please.

Oh ok so sorry Mr moderator I'll try to do better:(

[Robert Mullins]

Whatever he did it was enough for two women to end their hikes and that in itself speaks volumes. Most folks going out on the AT know that they are going to have to put up with some stuff they don't agree with but to call it and get a plane ride home because of the actions of 1 person. Not cool.
And besides even if he went to court and was found guilty nothing is going to happen to him.

My first post! Let's see how this goes lol...

Per Ramdino there were more than one incidents with different women, with one identified individual. One would surmise that those reports resulted in LEO apprehension. The fact that drugs were found points to behaviors due to drug use. So, yeah, 2+2, not excused, a cause. In a responsible society a person would be jailed, to protect society, after these offenses.

We live in a confused time. An individual using justified force would likely get more grief and legal jeopardy than a pervert exhibiting unlawful behavior. Heck, a perv like that could run for elected office in one party.

I ponder whether the dude committing the antisocial and unlawful behavior was asked to stop. As well did the group collectively exercise protective power of community (ick sounds strange from me)- run the perv off. My idea, that I will carry on my oncoming thru hike, is to encourage groups of citizens to fend off threats and take care of each other. As well, in my mind, using the group for enforcement will alleviate the poison of modern society of going after the 'rescuer' or 'enforcer' against a crime. And the group influence would, perhaps, reduce the use of (justified) force by an individual, or reduce the focus of violence by the perv on one individual.

[Robert Mullins]

What does a big belly, jacket, and wood walking sticks have to do with his behavior, and arrest, which is the subject of this thread. Also, how do you know that’s a joint in his mouth.
Lets stay on topic, please.

It remains unlawful to posses or use marijuana on Federal Land.

The appearance of the individual is out of the norm and disorganized. While alone may not be significant, taken into account with other facts is, perhaps, pertinent.

I cannot see that statement as too far off the mark. But your correction of it is cheap and off-target.

[JNI64]

My first post! Let's see how this goes lol...

Per Ramdino there were more than one incidents with different women, with one identified individual. One would surmise that those reports resulted in LEO apprehension. The fact that drugs were found points to behaviors due to drug use. So, yeah, 2+2, not excused, a cause. In a responsible society a person would be jailed, to protect society, after these offenses.

We live in a confused time. An individual using justified force would likely get more grief and legal jeopardy than a pervert exhibiting unlawful behavior. Heck, a perv like that could run for elected office in one party.

I ponder whether the dude committing the antisocial and unlawful behavior was asked to stop. As well did the group collectively exercise protective power of community (ick sounds strange from me)- run the perv off. My idea, that I will carry on my oncoming thru hike, is to encourage groups of citizens to fend off threats and take care of each other. As well, in my mind, using the group for enforcement will alleviate the poison of modern society of going after the 'rescuer' or 'enforcer' against a crime. And the group influence would, perhaps, reduce the use of (justified) force by an individual, or reduce the focus of violence by the perv on one individual.

Drugs or no drugs there's no excuse for this type of behavior, period. And please don't get me started on are elected officials.


If the guy was out there all night freaking this lady out I'm sure she asked him to stop st some point.

And yes people have to stick together in times of trouble. In this case this Is a big individual and may require several people to assist.
Good luck on your hike and find friends!

[gpburdelljr]

It remains unlawful to posses or use marijuana on Federal Land.

The appearance of the individual is out of the norm and disorganized. While alone may not be significant, taken into account with other facts is, perhaps, pertinent.

I cannot see that statement as too far off the mark. But your correction of it is cheap and off-target.
We don’t know if that is a joint in his mouth in the picture. I don’t think you should call it a joint if you don’t know.
I’ve seen plenty of pictures of OK hikers with a much worse appearance. Hikers shouldn’t be judged on their appearance, only on their behavior.

[JNI64]

We don’t know if that is a joint in his mouth in the picture. I don’t think you should call it a joint if you don’t know.
I’ve seen plenty of pictures of OK hikers with a much worse appearance. Hikers shouldn’t be judged on their appearance, only on their behavior.

His "behavior "put him in jail on Marijuana charges duh !

[gpburdelljr]

His "behavior "put him in jail on Marijuana charges duh !
I’m well aware of the few facts we know about his behavior, and arrest for drugs. My original comment was because you were commenting on his appearance, not his behavior, and you assumed, but do not know, that was a joint in his mouth in the picture.

I deplore what I’ve heard about his behavior, but there is no correlation between his appearance and behavior. Like I said before, you can find lots of pictures of hikers with worse appearance that are perfectly nice, well behaved, people.

[Alligator]

My first post! Let's see how this goes lol...

Per Ramdino there were more than one incidents with different women, with one identified individual. One would surmise that those reports resulted in LEO apprehension. The fact that drugs were found points to behaviors due to drug use. So, yeah, 2+2, not excused, a cause. In a responsible society a person would be jailed, to protect society, after these offenses.

We live in a confused time. An individual using justified force would likely get more grief and legal jeopardy than a pervert exhibiting unlawful behavior. Heck, a perv like that could run for elected office in one party.

I ponder whether the dude committing the antisocial and unlawful behavior was asked to stop. As well did the group collectively exercise protective power of community (ick sounds strange from me)- run the perv off. My idea, that I will carry on my oncoming thru hike, is to encourage groups of citizens to fend off threats and take care of each other. As well, in my mind, using the group for enforcement will alleviate the poison of modern society of going after the 'rescuer' or 'enforcer' against a crime. And the group influence would, perhaps, reduce the use of (justified) force by an individual, or reduce the focus of violence by the perv on one individual.Not a great start. In my signature is a link to the user agreement. Please read it over and also be aware politics is off limits. Vigilantism, also off limits.

[stephanD]

I deplore what I’ve heard about his behavior, but there is no correlation between his appearance and behavior. Like I said before, you can find lots of pictures of hikers with worse appearance that are perfectly nice, well behaved, people.
You seem to confuse between correlation and causation. There's actually a correlation between appearance and behavior although, one may argue, a weak one. What cannot be said is that there's a causation between appearance and behavior, meaning that a specific appearance will cause a specific behavior. When I see someone dressed like the hero of the day, I stay away. And yes, the yellow thing on his belt, whatever it may be, makes me nervous.

[BlackCloud]

I thought a picture of the subject hiker might help any hikers on the trail if they should happen to come across him.

49138
Is that a shiv dangling from his wastebelt?

[gpburdelljr]

Is that a shiv dangling from his wastebelt?
Maybe a trowel, with paracord on the handle.

[Alligator]

Maybe a trowel, with paracord on the handle.Looks like a snow stake wrapped in p-cord, which is in line with your observation.

[One Half]

Is that a shiv dangling from his wastebelt?
It's a trowel. Can't remember the brand but it's a trowel. I thought it was a shiv too but someone showed me the website you can buy them from.

[Wolf - 23000]

The video I have seen, and reports of him masturbating outside women's’ tents, multiple reports of inappropriately touching people, surely shouldn’t be dismissed. This is more than an odd misunderstood duck. The police should’ve evaluated him a little more closely before turning him back out to society.
Maineiac64, JNI64

Do either of you have proof of him masturbating outside women's tent or inappropriately touching someone? I'm not saying it did or did not happen. I think we can all agree it should never happen. Unless the police have proof of something occurring, they cannot do anything about it. It should also be said sometimes, the rumor mill can stretch what actually occurred with what has been passed down from one hiker to the next to the next and so on.

He was arrested on drug charges only. There is also a video taken by a woman that shows an uncomfortable interaction with another hiker. An uncomfortable interaction and a criminal action are not the same. The video does not show him doing anything criminal wrong for the police to take action. If the woman came forward and willing to testify against her assailant, law enforcement might be able to take action. I'm not sure if a criminal case could be made against someone opening up a persons tent. I've had several very rude hikers over the years come over and open up my tent/tarp without permission too (for different reasons I'm sure). It is not cool but I don't know if it is criminal.

As it has been pointed out, it is often very difficult for the victim to return to the scene of the incident. Years ago, there was talk of helping victims on the trail with transportation and other legislation to help get these creeps off the trail. I'm not sure what happens with it, but it may be a topic the hiking community might want to revisit.

[Coffee]

“I've had several very rude hikers over the years come over and open up my tent/tarp without permission too (for different reasons I'm sure). It is not cool but I don't know if it is criminal.”

???

I would regard that the same way as someone walking in the front door of my home. I’ve never heard of that happening.

[Wolf - 23000]

“I've had several very rude hikers over the years come over and open up my tent/tarp without permission too (for different reasons I'm sure). It is not cool but I don't know if it is criminal.”

???

I would regard that the same way as someone walking in the front door of my home. I’ve never heard of that happening.

If someone walk in your front door, there are legal documents that show you own/rent the property that someone illegally entered without permission. You have a legal right to decide who enters your home and who is not welcome. The person can be legally charged with trespassing, breaking and entering and maybe some additional charges. When someone is camping on the AT, there is no legal document that says you have any more right to the camping area than the person who is wrongfully entering someone else tent. I'm not suggesting it is right, but I'm not sure if it is "illegally". I have never heard of anyone who has been criminally charged for opening another hiker's tent.

[BlackCloud]

That is an interesting question. I can tell you that the police must obtain a warrant to enter your tent w/o your permission, just like a home.

Some states might have codified this, but I doubt it. Either way, harassment and stalking are still crimes in most places.

[Wolf - 23000]

That is an interesting question. I can tell you that the police must obtain a warrant to enter your tent w/o your permission, just like a home.

Some states might have codified this, but I doubt it. Either way, harassment and stalking are still crimes in most places.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not even sure if the police would need a warrant to enter someone tent when it is on park land. In most cases, the area is not being rented, no exchange of money for services. There are plenty of times when police had to clear out a homeless camp or similar cases. There is possible an injunction but often no warrant for each one of the tents. They were setup and occupied on public property.

I agree with you that harassment and stalking are still crimes but even then, it can get tricky. The AT is an established route that everyone follows one another. There are many hikers who are going to spend the night at the same campsites regardless of if they are just someone enjoying their AT journey or some creep harassing women on the trail. It is hard to say if someone is following another person around when everyone is following the same route.

[Crossbar]

Yep, law enforcement or any government agent would need a warrant to search anywhere a person has a 'reasonable expectation of privacy'. Opening up another person's tent by another without the owners permission (unless exigent circumstances) could be considered 'prowling' as long as that person's tent is legally on the property. Keep in mind that a law enforcement officer can not make an arrest based on a misdemeanor charge unless he witnesses that activity. An arrest can be made without witnessing for a felony charge but a victim or witness will have to be willing to charge/report.

[Durwood]

Yep, law enforcement or any government agent would need a warrant to search anywhere a person has a 'reasonable expectation of privacy'. Opening up another person's tent by another without the owners permission (unless exigent circumstances) could be considered 'prowling' as long as that person's tent is legally on the property. Keep in mind that a law enforcement officer can not make an arrest based on a misdemeanor charge unless he witnesses that activity. An arrest can be made without witnessing for a felony charge but a victim or witness will have to be willing to charge/report.

This is not true. I can only speak for TX but I know that a Game Warden has right of entry at all times. They have more entry powers than local LE and even State Police. This power was granted generations ago in order for wardens to gain access to parcels of property when land owner is not present. Farm gates and secured land lines can be accessed by officials with no warrant or reason to inspect.

Also, their first move if people are present is to take all weapons. If any law is deemed to be violated those weapons are seized and taken into govt possession.

Those of us that hunt and fish and have recreational properties know that they can come in whenever they want and seize your gear. Best to be friendly with your regional warden and always, always adhere to laws and plain common sense.

This doesnt address the topic of a nut along the trail but wanted to assert that certain authorities have powers that do NOT afford you the expectation of "privacy". I'm sure it varies by state. Warrants don't have to be in place in TX for search and seizure.

[Durwood]

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not even sure if the police would need a warrant to enter someone tent when it is on park land. In most cases, the area is not being rented, no exchange of money for services. There are plenty of times when police had to clear out a homeless camp or similar cases. There is possible an injunction but often no warrant for each one of the tents. They were setup and occupied on public property.

I agree with you that harassment and stalking are still crimes but even then, it can get tricky. The AT is an established route that everyone follows one another. There are many hikers who are going to spend the night at the same campsites regardless of if they are just someone enjoying their AT journey or some creep harassing women on the trail. It is hard to say if someone is following another person around when everyone is following the same route.

It's not hard to know if a person feels unsafe or that their personal space has been invaded. Every human MUST respect that boundary even if they don't agree with it. A persons space is exactly that-THEIR space. I thru'd and didn't find this to be an issue. Of course, there are times that we squish into tight places...especially in bad weather, but a person should always be aware of anothers comfort zone. If one cannot respect this, they're probably selfish, creepy and a person most people avoid.

Dangerous?? Who knows except the folks involved and the PD that picked him up and questioned him. Eerily like Sovereign, Castle and many others that were pulled off trail because of complaints and turned right back out to the trail just to harm someone. It couldn't have been easy for hikers to push for the guy to be removed from the community.

It's a family out there and nobody wanted him as their brother...just saying.

[Crossbar]

... Warrants don't have to be in place in TX for search and seizure.

All I can say is Wow. I thought the 4th Amendment applied to all States. ;)

[Durwood]

All I can say is Wow. I thought the 4th Amendment applied to all States. ;)

Yes sir. I can say that I have never seen this privilege abused. Never. A land owner or lessee just needs to be aware that certain officers of the state don't need paper.

[BlackCloud]

This is not true. I can only speak for TX but I know that a Game Warden has right of entry at all times. They have more entry powers than local LE and even State Police. This power was granted generations ago in order for wardens to gain access to parcels of property when land owner is not present. Farm gates and secured land lines can be accessed by officials with no warrant or reason to inspect.
This doesnt address the topic of a nut along the trail but wanted to assert that certain authorities have powers that do NOT afford you the expectation of "privacy". I'm sure it varies by state. Warrants don't have to be in place in TX for search and seizure.


Oh my. Let's be clear.

I once was in a class with (2) US Forest Service special agents during advanced training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in GA. At lunch I posed this question. They affirmed that LEOs require a warrant to enter a closed tent absent an exception to the 4th Amendment's warrant requirement. We can get into what those exceptions are, but this is the basic rule.

The 4th/A applies to all levels of government; even in TX. There is an enormous difference between an LEO entering open lands and an LEO entering your home. Any LEO may enter open lands for any official purpose. No LEO can just walk into your home or tent absent consent, a warrant, or probable cause under one of the established exceptions to the 4th/A's warrant requirement. Those exceptions are really limited to exigent circumstances.

An LEO may conduct a search or seizure of a person or item absent a warrant if the LEO establishes probable cause that a crime has been, is, or is about to be committed, so long as that search/seizure is in the plain view of the officer. Inside your home or tent is not in plain view. Your front yard is; the inside of your car is, etc.

No agent of the government has "right of entry" into your home or tent. This is why the 4th/A exists.

[Odd Man Out]

Here's a video regarding this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32ZUWnE82LI

[Coffee]

Seems to me that anyone opening someone else's tent in the dark, unannounced, is taking their life in their hands especially in the south.

[Durwood]

https://huntershield.com/texas-game-wardens-power-in-the-field/

[Durwood]

Folks, I'm not trying to start an argument or debate...just speaking from experience. I've been told in no uncertain terms by a warden that he can be where he wants, when he wants. Discretion is a subjective thing.

Not looking for an argument...all peace and love here. Haha.

[Wolf - 23000]

It's not hard to know if a person feels unsafe or that their personal space has been invaded. Every human MUST respect that boundary even if they don't agree with it. A persons space is exactly that-THEIR space. I thru'd and didn't find this to be an issue. Of course, there are times that we squish into tight places...especially in bad weather, but a person should always be aware of anothers comfort zone. If one cannot respect this, they're probably selfish, creepy and a person most people avoid.

Dangerous?? Who knows except the folks involved and the PD that picked him up and questioned him. Eerily like Sovereign, Castle and many others that were pulled off trail because of complaints and turned right back out to the trail just to harm someone. It couldn't have been easy for hikers to push for the guy to be removed from the community.

It's a family out there and nobody wanted him as their brother...just saying.

Durwood, I never said different, but you missed the point. Just because someone feels unsafe or feel their personal space is been invaded, does mean the other person is doing some criminal. I'm not going to defend anyone who actions are just PLAIN inconsiderate and disrespectfully to others but that doesn't mean it is always a crime. Everyone should treat others with respect. Law enforcement has to follow the law on what they can and cannot do when someone is causing a problem on the trail.

There is also a point that no matter how nice and respectful of a person we are, someone is always going to think you are an a$$hole. Years ago, there was a hiker who believe because she arrived too the shelter first, it was first come first server for her to take over the whole shelter. She didn't feel comfortable sharing the shelter with strangers. There was also another man name Wandering Jack, who hiked the trail a number of times but also suffered from tourettes. If you talked with him, he was one of the nicest men you will ever met. He also made a lot of people uncomfortable due to his medical problem. If you hang around the trail world, there are going to be those that take it to far one way or the other.

[Wolf - 23000]

Oh my. Let's be clear.

I once was in a class with (2) US Forest Service special agents during advanced training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in GA. At lunch I posed this question. They affirmed that LEOs require a warrant to enter a closed tent absent an exception to the 4th Amendment's warrant requirement. We can get into what those exceptions are, but this is the basic rule.

The 4th/A applies to all levels of government; even in TX. There is an enormous difference between an LEO entering open lands and an LEO entering your home. Any LEO may enter open lands for any official purpose. No LEO can just walk into your home or tent absent consent, a warrant, or probable cause under one of the established exceptions to the 4th/A's warrant requirement. Those exceptions are really limited to exigent circumstances.

An LEO may conduct a search or seizure of a person or item absent a warrant if the LEO establishes probable cause that a crime has been, is, or is about to be committed, so long as that search/seizure is in the plain view of the officer. Inside your home or tent is not in plain view. Your front yard is; the inside of your car is, etc.

No agent of the government has "right of entry" into your home or tent. This is why the 4th/A exists.

Blackcloud,

I don't think this jack@ss is any part of LEO. I have also never heard of anyone who was criminal prosecuted for opening another persons tent. I'm not going to suggest it is right, but I'm not aware if it would fall under the 4th/A because one, the person camping has no more legal right to the area as anyone else. It is after all on public land. There may be cases that have happen but I am not aware of any. There have also been a number of times in the news where LEO has cleared a camp without a warrant such as a homeless camp setup illegally within a city, park or forest. There was no warrant issued but it was still done.

[Alligator]

There were no funds reported seized from the hiker just drugs. Please keep it hiking related. Thank you.

[Traveler]

Interesting issue. Some States and local government have crafted ordinances to discourage "tent cities" of homeless people using tents and boxes as domiciles. These ordinances are constantly being challenged in court, though these do not impact recreational camping.

Typically, 4th Amendment protections exist for tents used in recreational, legal camping in defined/approved areas and public lands for the most part ("stealth" camping on private property absent permission being a huge gray area). Where some people get tangled up in the legalities is being engaged in illegal/illicit activities that can be seen from outside the tent or in communal shelters where the expectation of privacy does not exist. The only exceptions for are exigent circumstances that allow LEO entry without warrant, such as the destruction of evidence, imminent violence to persons, fleeing from arrest, or if the tent is open for anyone to casually see inside and can see behaviors or illegal/illicit substances (plain view doctrine).

Fortunately, the 4th amendment of the Constitution exists in all States and has been repeatedly upheld by the US Supreme Court.

[Wolf - 23000]

Interesting issue. Some States and local government have crafted ordinances to discourage "tent cities" of homeless people using tents and boxes as domiciles. These ordinances are constantly being challenged in court, though these do not impact recreational camping.
Typically, 4th Amendment protections exist for tents used in recreational, legal camping in defined/approved areas and public lands for the most part ("stealth" camping on private property absent permission being a huge gray area). Where some people get tangled up in the legalities is being engaged in illegal/illicit activities that can be seen from outside the tent or in communal shelters where the expectation of privacy does not exist. The only exceptions for are exigent circumstances that allow LEO entry without warrant, such as the destruction of evidence, imminent violence to persons, fleeing from arrest, or if the tent is open for anyone to casually see inside and can see behaviors or illegal/illicit substances (plain view doctrine).

Fortunately, the 4th amendment of the Constitution exists in all States and has been repeatedly upheld by the US Supreme Court.
This jack@ss is also not part of law enforcement so the 4th Amendment does not apply. He is not searching someone home or tent. He is reported as opening a female hiker's tent without her permission/consent because he is a creep. I could be wrong, but I am not aware or anyone who has ever been prosecuted for someone tent.

[Traveler]

I never claimed this fellow was part of law enforcement nor do I defend the alleged behavior he may have demonstrated. The discussion turned to the protections of the 4th amendment as it relates to recreational camping, which is what I was commenting on.

The 4th amendment does not apply directly to citizens per se, it is a protection against unreasonable searches by LEO. We have laws regarding trespass and uninvited entry into private property that would cover the opening of a tent as you describe. However, without a formal complaint by a witness or victim it gets difficult to substantiate the event occurred and police are not able to do much about it beyond a possible conversation with the guy that appears to have occurred that resulted in a minor drug possession charge.

[MtDoraDave]

Hmm, where have I heard this exact scenario before? Oh, and the inconvenience of having to briefly interrupt one's hike in order to possibly save other hiker's lives.

I have read this whole thread before commenting, and I think this is the biggest takeaway from it. Two people were freaked out enough to cancel their hikes, yet nobody could be inconvenienced to stay in town to press charges?
Wasn't it just two or three years ago when a similar story ended in tragedy?
If I ever get a chance to thru hike* I hope, first, that nothing like this happens; but if it does happen in my bubble that I will be willing to take a couple days out of my 5 MONTH trip to see that justice and safety are upheld to the best of my ability to ensure - and that I would be able to convince others to do the same.

*or one on my section hikes.

[gjbu]

I have read this whole thread before commenting, and I think this is the biggest takeaway from it. Two people were freaked out enough to cancel their hikes, yet nobody could be inconvenienced to stay in town to press charges?
Wasn't it just two or three years ago when a similar story ended in tragedy?
If I ever get a chance to thru hike* I hope, first, that nothing like this happens; but if it does happen in my bubble that I will be willing to take a couple days out of my 5 MONTH trip to see that justice and safety are upheld to the best of my ability to ensure - and that I would be able to convince others to do the same.

*or one on my section hikes.
Very well said. I couldn’t agree more.

[rhjanes]

It won't be a couple of days. To file the initial report, sure. But then the prosecutor will want you to be available for 6 rounds of questions. The defense will want 12 rounds of questions. Every time you are not responding for several days (Because you are hiking somewhere hundreds of miles away) the defense will be telling the judge about that you are not responding to them so please dismiss this or reduce it to a fine. Then if it does go to trial, you will again be expected to be present. It's not right that there isn't a better recourse in this situation.
I've been dealing with three estates these past three years. It took a month to even get before the judge to start one probate.

There was a similar situation about 10 years ago. The woman tried everything, including police involvement. She finally "Left" the trail to get away from the stalker. Nothing else had worked. It was months later when it came to light that her and several of her trusted trail family had actually jumped ahead a few hundred miles. They had to quit all postings on all sites about where they were at, family only knew. They even changed all their trail names. No trail registry entries, no Facebook, or Youtube. Total radio silence that would make the CIA proud. They then went back and did the few hundred miles they'd jumped past. Meanwhile the stalker took up harassing another woman hiker.

[Slo-go'en]

A FB post reported that "ICE" was seen entering the Smokies recently. I haven't seen any more incidents reported with his behavior, so he either learned his lesson or is being ostracized.

[somers515]

It won't be a couple of days. To file the initial report, sure. But then the prosecutor will want you to be available for 6 rounds of questions. The defense will want 12 rounds of questions. Every time you are not responding for several days (Because you are hiking somewhere hundreds of miles away) the defense will be telling the judge about that you are not responding to them so please dismiss this or reduce it to a fine. . .

It can be different in every state, but as a retired NJ prosecutor, this is not true for our state. Depending on the seriousness of the crime I might call the victim to speak to them or want to meet with them. I certainly wouldn't subject them to "6 rounds of questions" because then I'm creating 6 different statements. The victim doesn't have to speak to the defense at all before trial if they don't want to. A victim would have to appear at the trial but the vast majority of cases resolve without a trial. I guess my point is I would encourage any victim of a crime to (a) report it to the police and then (b) speak to the assigned prosecutor or victim-witness unit and explain your situation/availability. I believe there is a saying . . the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.

[rhjanes]

It can be different in every state, but as a retired NJ prosecutor, this is not true for our state. Depending on the seriousness of the crime I might call the victim to speak to them or want to meet with them. I certainly wouldn't subject them to "6 rounds of questions" because then I'm creating 6 different statements. The victim doesn't have to speak to the defense at all before trial if they don't want to. A victim would have to appear at the trial but the vast majority of cases resolve without a trial. I guess my point is I would encourage any victim of a crime to (a) report it to the police and then (b) speak to the assigned prosecutor or victim-witness unit and explain your situation/availability. I believe there is a saying . . the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.
Thank you for your input. Good thoughts.

[TwoSpirits]

It can be different in every state, but as a retired NJ prosecutor, this is not true for our state. Depending on the seriousness of the crime I might call the victim to speak to them or want to meet with them. I certainly wouldn't subject them to "6 rounds of questions" because then I'm creating 6 different statements. The victim doesn't have to speak to the defense at all before trial if they don't want to. A victim would have to appear at the trial but the vast majority of cases resolve without a trial. I guess my point is I would encourage any victim of a crime to (a) report it to the police and then (b) speak to the assigned prosecutor or victim-witness unit and explain your situation/availability. I believe there is a saying . . the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.While acknowledging that it can be different in every state, I bet it's not different by all that much. This is good and important information that all hikers (indeed all citizens) should understand. This is how our justice system works; it takes all of us to participate. That's how we built it.

[somers515]

Thank you for your input. Good thoughts.

You are very welcome! Happy hiking all!

[4eyedbuzzard]

for opening Lady hikers tents and assaulting them. The police released him on Bond , with Drug charges No one wanted to stay and press charges for assault. He is a large man carrying an ice ax and two knives. His trail name is ICE, James Namkung. He is currently back on the trail, and was camped at Deep Gap on the 5th. He is hiking NOBO.
More information, and a photo can be found at Appalachian Trail Section Hikers Group (Tn/Ga/Nc....) on Facebook. Also, a YouTube Video. titled Deviant Hiker on the Appalachian Trail Arrested but Possible Return to the Trail.
Hikers should beware.


The video I have seen, and reports of him masturbating outside women's’ tents, multiple reports of inappropriately touching people, surely shouldn’t be dismissed. This is more than an odd misunderstood duck. The police should’ve evaluated him a little more closely before turning him back out to society.


Hmm, where have I heard this exact scenario before? Oh, and the inconvenience of having to briefly interrupt one's hike in order to possibly save other hiker's lives.

I have read this whole thread before commenting, and I think this is the biggest takeaway from it. Two people were freaked out enough to cancel their hikes, yet nobody could be inconvenienced to stay in town to press charges?
Wasn't it just two or three years ago when a similar story ended in tragedy?
If I ever get a chance to thru hike* I hope, first, that nothing like this happens; but if it does happen in my bubble that I will be willing to take a couple days out of my 5 MONTH trip to see that justice and safety are upheld to the best of my ability to ensure - and that I would be able to convince others to do the same.

*or one on my section hikes.


It can be different in every state, but as a retired NJ prosecutor, this is not true for our state. Depending on the seriousness of the crime I might call the victim to speak to them or want to meet with them. I certainly wouldn't subject them to "6 rounds of questions" because then I'm creating 6 different statements. The victim doesn't have to speak to the defense at all before trial if they don't want to. A victim would have to appear at the trial but the vast majority of cases resolve without a trial. I guess my point is I would encourage any victim of a crime to (a) report it to the police and then (b) speak to the assigned prosecutor or victim-witness unit and explain your situation/availability. I believe there is a saying . . the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.


While acknowledging that it can be different in every state, I bet it's not different by all that much. This is good and important information that all hikers (indeed all citizens) should understand. This is how our justice system works; it takes all of us to participate. That's how we built it.

Just FWIW, I have often taken time out of my life to do a lot of somewhat inconvenient things that didn't/don't immediately have a positive impact on just my own life: voting, jury duty, unpaid public office, etc. No, people don't have to do any of these things. But to me, it's simply part of being a responsible citizen. If one wants to enjoy the benefits of being part of the greater whole, one should consider that those benefits come with an implied duty to participate in the process. In this case, to file a complaint and bear witness to protect others in the group.

[mtnswan]

yes and not just AT. lucky they're called out quick

[Wolf - 23000]

Just FWIW, I have often taken time out of my life to do a lot of somewhat inconvenient things that didn't/don't immediately have a positive impact on just my own life: voting, jury duty, unpaid public office, etc. No, people don't have to do any of these things. But to me, it's simply part of being a responsible citizen. If one wants to enjoy the benefits of being part of the greater whole, one should consider that those benefits come with an implied duty to participate in the process. In this case, to file a complaint and bear witness to protect others in the group.

I agree with you and your position, but it is often more difficult for those that are on the trail. Someone pointed out this to me, the victim is often several hundreds of miles away from where the incident occurred with limited way to get back to testify against their assailant. They may be able to take a bus back but that also cost money, plus the additional cost of hotel stay and other essential along with the time. Years ago there was talk about ALDHA helping out victims to return to testify, but I don't think it went anywhere. I'm all for letting hikers enjoy their hike as much as possible but we all have to do our part to keep criminals off the trail.

Does anyone know where he is? Is he still on the trail? I have not heard any recent news. Hopefully he got the message, his actions are not cool.

[2NewKnees]

This situation is exactly why I would encourage females to carry mace, Knife, and a gun if you want. Who knows what this nut job could do next time.

[TwoSpirits]

When encouraging females (or gee, anyone else for that matter) to carry mace, knives, and/or guns, you might want to be sure to also encourage them to learn about threat identification, risk management and response determination; to take appropriate weapons training courses and learn weapon retention techniques, as well as have a thorough understanding of each state's particular laws pertaining to the legality of carrying such weapons, and various Use of Force statutes.

Or maybe just start with a basic self-defense course.

[MapleHiker]

This situation is exactly why I would encourage females to carry mace, Knife, and a gun if you want. Who knows what this nut job could do next time.
It might not be a popular opinion, and arguably a smart thing to do considering how whack the US justice system can be, but that girl that got all cut up from the nutjob James Jordan (that's now free and also murdered a US vet and hiker) should have maced, sliced, diced, and shot that piece of trash. The world would be a better place and so would the trail.

[Lone Wolf]

It might not be a popular opinion, and arguably a smart thing to do considering how whack the US justice system can be, but that girl that got all cut up from the nutjob James Jordan (that's now free and also murdered a US vet and hiker) should have maced, sliced, diced, and shot that piece of trash. The world would be a better place and so would the trail.

jordan ain't "free"

[MapleHiker]

jordan ain't "free"
Technically, you're right, but he's also not in a prison cell, and he is free of the murder charge.

[Lone Wolf]

A FB post reported that "ICE" was seen entering the Smokies recently. I haven't seen any more incidents reported with his behavior, so he either learned his lesson or is being ostracized.

he was in Damascus today

[stephanD]

he was in Damascus today
Did he stay in a hostel? I bet the owner/s thought "This's my lucky day". :D

[Wolf - 23000]

A FB post reported that "ICE" was seen entering the Smokies recently. I haven't seen any more incidents reported with his behavior, so he either learned his lesson or is being ostracized.

Hopefully you are right and there are no more incidents. Thank you for the update.

V/r

Keith

[Lone Wolf]

he was in Damascus today

still here....

[4eyedbuzzard]

It might not be a popular opinion, and arguably a smart thing to do considering how whack the US justice system can be, but that girl that got all cut up from the nutjob James Jordan (that's now free and also murdered a US vet and hiker) should have maced, sliced, diced, and shot that piece of trash. The world would be a better place and so would the trail.


jordan ain't "free"


Technically, you're right, but he's also not in a prison cell, and he is free of the murder charge.
Maybe not in a prison cell, per se. But likely housed in a very small (jail cell sized) "room", under watch and supervision, psychiatric treatment and meds, with limited freedoms and activities. He definitely isn't free in any sense of the word - he's under court ordered commitment until the court rules he's "no longer a threat, recovered from his mental disease or defect, etc.". And he very well may live out his life and die there. Jordan is housed at the Federal Bureau of Prison's Federal Medical Center, Butner (FMC Butner) in NC, the medical part of the Federal Corrections Complex there. Even though he's in the Medical section, it's still a Federal Prison with all the trappings - bars, locked doors, concertina wire, armed guards, etc. I doubt you would find the accommodations to be a nice home in any sense.

[double d]

Thank you for your post-well said! Just FWIW, I have often taken time out of my life to do a lot of somewhat inconvenient things that didn't/don't immediately have a positive impact on just my own life: voting, jury duty, unpaid public office, etc. No, people don't have to do any of these things. But to me, it's simply part of being a responsible citizen. If one wants to enjoy the benefits of being part of the greater whole, one should consider that those benefits come with an implied duty to participate in the process. In this case, to file a complaint and bear witness to protect others in the group

[SAWNIE]

Double D, what you have posted is about citizenship at its most fundamental level. Inconvenient? Yes. Devastating to have all our prep and efforts destroyed because we "ought" to take some stand like pressing charges? Yep. It is hard. But....it is for the common good. Applause for your stand up-ish-ness as stated in your post.

[RockDoc]

It's rare, but if you hike enough, you will meet them. Usually no problems, besides giving you a scary story to tell later.

[greenmtnboy]

Clearly criminal activity should not be tolerated on the Appalachian Trail, and I hope that those with active warrants should be caught. Years ago Eric Rudolf was being sought and they thought he might be somewhere near or on the Appalachian Trail and he later got caught dumpster diving.

However I've seen a lot of profiling, biased attitudes and hostility against those hiking alone who *may* fit some type of "suspicious" profile. Hate crimes are against the law based on slandering people who are part of a nationality or other protected group. There needs to be pushback against hostility against harmless hikers who get "reported" without any cause for doing so.

[Bubblehead]

I passed Ice heading north just south of Cow Camp Gap shelter in Virginia around May 10th...