View Full Version : Vermont Pico Camp Shelter heads up
somers515
07-24-2022, 20:47
From a Long Trail FB page that I'm a member of I read a warning of a man named "Salt" who arrived late last night, made lots of noise and reportedly started signing "burn Pico burn, everybody burn". The 4 hikers there left after he started signing that and reported it to the authorities. I normally wouldn't pass along this type of warning but I've now read about this type of bad experience at Pico camp due to "Salt" several times now in this FB group and just wanted to make sure the whiteblaze community had the heads up as well. Stay safe all!
Signing you mean spray painting?
somers515
07-25-2022, 06:42
Signing you mean spray painting?
typo, sorry meant: singing
Seatbelt
07-25-2022, 07:11
Sounds like a new way to "clear out" a shelter in order to have it all to yourself.
That's when the 4 hikers should've started singing " go ahead and try there's 4 against 1 and we'll rip you apart " " la la la la la !
Onemorehill
07-27-2022, 18:39
Wish it were that simple. It’s not when you are on the mountain with a mentally ill individual and fearful for your safety.
peakbagger
07-27-2022, 19:04
Like many states there is no good support system for mentally challenged folks. VT like many states basically closed any institutions and send folks out on their own. Unless they get violent, not much the police can do who are expected to be the first responders (and have no specific training). At best they will intervene and then drop the individual somewhere but they will be back on the street soon. The OP did the best thing, just head on down the trail. Its a bummer as Pico Cabin is definitely quite the funky little shelter but not worth getting into a confrontation.
Yeah why bother with it, just keep letting the bad guy win .
Like many states there is no good support system for mentally challenged folks. VT like many states basically closed any institutions and send folks out on their own. Unless they get violent, not much the police can do who are expected to be the first responders (and have no specific training). At best they will intervene and then drop the individual somewhere but they will be back on the street soon. The OP did the best thing, just head on down the trail. Its a bummer as Pico Cabin is definitely quite the funky little shelter but not worth getting into a confrontation.
I agree 100% with all this. I just don't think that everyone that acts stupid has a real mental problem. I think there are just mean people, thugs,bully,A-holes that get off on scaring people.
And I'm just tired of seeing the bad guys do bad things and just let out again to repeat.
Tim Rich
07-28-2022, 10:05
I agree 100% with all this. I just don't think that everyone that acts stupid has a real mental problem. I think there are just mean people, thugs,bully,A-holes that get off on scaring people.
And I'm just tired of seeing the bad guys do bad things and just let out again to repeat.
I think your trail name could be Mister Inbetween...:)
https://youtu.be/AftqKW8h5ic?t=217
Tim Rich
07-28-2022, 10:06
I agree 100% with all this. I just don't think that everyone that acts stupid has a real mental problem. I think there are just mean people, thugs,bully,A-holes that get off on scaring people.
And I'm just tired of seeing the bad guys do bad things and just let out again to repeat.
I think your trail name could be Mister Inbetween...:)
https://youtu.be/AftqKW8h5ic?t=217
I think your trail name could be Mister Inbetween...:)
https://youtu.be/AftqKW8h5ic?t=217
LOL, thank you I'll take it . And I kinda look like that dude with bald head and mustache. And most unfortunate the good guy has to anger management and the bad guys just move to the next victim!
If you want to explore your response to potentially dangerous people, de Becker’s ‘the gift of fear’ is an interesting read. Some of his methods would likely be helpful when dealing with the rare stressful person interaction on the trail, although what he mainly emphasizes is trusting your gut, and moving on when doubtful. I ran into an eccentric hiker in the NE on a thru hike, at a rather remote shelter a half mile off trail. He was clearly not a thruhiker and seemed most likely just a bit odd in his comments. Since I was otherwise alone I just decided to move on, even though I thought the risk was probably fairly low.
chknfngrs
05-15-2023, 05:32
If you dig a little deeper, it looks like this guy Salt is in trouble with the law several times, to include burning a Vermont camp to the ground. I saw that bit of info on the GMC/Long Trail Facebook page. Just hoping he gets tended to.
https://nyvtmedia.com/2020/07/08/poultney-man-charged-with-arson/
chknfngrs
05-15-2023, 05:36
https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/521179043/news-release-structure-fire-middletown-springs-update
This one has more detail and no firewall
LoneStranger
05-15-2023, 06:51
I missed him last year because I stayed at the Inn and then hike straight up to Pico summit via ski trail by accident. Totally bypassed the shelter.
Sad that he's been out there scaring people for so long and no one has used any authority they might have to protect the hikers just wanting to enjoy the trail.
chknfngrs
05-15-2023, 07:22
Oddly enough, if you google his name you find that the owner of the property he is accused of burning appears to be related.
NY HIKER 50
05-15-2023, 14:55
This is becoming more commonplace at shelters. There's another one at the Wildcat shelter in NY that threatens, plays loud music at night and generally makes a rukis.
LoneStranger
05-27-2023, 06:29
They announced yesterday that Pico Shelter is temporarily closed until the guy is moved out by the authorities. Guess enough people complaining about the inaction is finally making them do something about it.
somers515
05-27-2023, 08:27
They announced yesterday that Pico Shelter is temporarily closed until the guy is moved out by the authorities. Guess enough people complaining about the inaction is finally making them do something about it.
Yup I think you are right . . here's the post by the Green Mountain Club on the Long Trail Facebook page:
Be Advised: The Green Mountain Club is closing Pico Camp until unauthorized occupancy of the shelter can be resolved by local authorities. This is a matter of public safety and hikers should find an alternate overnight site or accommodation.
We appreciate the concern and patience of the hiking community as we work to resolve this matter.
Alternative Overnight Suggestions:
Churchill Scott Shelter or Tucker Johnson Shelter on the Long Trail North
Cooper Lodge or Governor Clement Shelter on the Long Trail South
The Inn at the Long Trail on U.S. Route 4
More information on this and other trail updates: https://www.greenmountainclub.org/hiking/trail-updates/ (https://www.greenmountainclub.org/hiking/trail-updates/?fbclid=IwAR2oaeUsrt6RUNJ_Nd0Rlt8PHJXa2IGv1zxShMpX yQBr9TE-6-wOxl9xZpY)
peakbagger
05-27-2023, 10:41
Unless he has a warrant on him, I expect the challenge will be what to do to keep him out of there. I think Pico camp is on private property. The AT was relocated downslope away from ski area property when a prior owner of Killington bought Pico and had grand plans to substantially increase the size of the resort by expanding Killington over to Pico. The ATC made the best of it and ran the relocation down slope on the west side through a nice but not particularly interesting patch of woods (green tunnel) ended up downslope from the Inn on the Long Trail leaving a big PUD. Many folks still hike the old AT route along the ridge line to Pico Camp and I expect the current owner of Killington and Pico could care less as long as they have control over the property. The prior owner with the grand plan, Les Otten is now focused on the Balsams in NH and planning to build the "biggest ski resort in the northeast" (by acreage as the local peaks in Dixville NH are much lower).
I am not aware of GMC having any rules on occupancy of their shelters and do not have any way of enforcing them even if they did. Most small towns in that area have zero law enforcement and depend on the state police and they are understaffed and tend to stay near their cruisers, Coincidentally I spent a night at Pico one night with a thruhiker who the day before had found a dead hiker in his tent at a shelter site south of Killington and he was quite surprised as to how long it took state police to respond to the site. He called 911 and reported it and was told to stay there until the state police responded and they kept asking him for an address. Eventually he borrowed a map and got a road name for the closest AT crossing and basically had to lead them to the shelter site. About 4 hours later a state trooper shows up in full state trooper gear with a smoky bear hat obviously out of his element. He interviewed the thru hiker and asked him for contact info which he did not have as he had used the dead hikers cell phone to make the call (this was 20 years ago when cell phones and towers were far rarer). VT did not even have any agency in charge of S&R until about 15 years ago when the state was sued for not responding to a lost skier who I think died. Up until then, the state depended on ski areas employees rescuing lost skiers, giving the ski areas the option to bill out of bounds skiers.
My guess is the GMC or the state will eventually apply enough pressure that he will move on to a spot with less resistance. Unless things have changed, there is or were shuttles up from Rutland and Rutland is a known town large enough to have social services to support voluntary and involuntary homeless individuals. Therefore, this individual may find Pico Camp to be a good spot to hang out, out in the woods but not that far away from services and possibly good picking from car parked in the former AT lot across from the Inn at the Long Trail. In most of VT, people with issues tend to gravitate towards the larger cities with services. In Burlington, the city elected to "defund the police" and the result is shoplifting, property crimes and minor offenses like this individual may be doing are effectively ignored.
LoneStranger
05-27-2023, 11:33
I'm guessing they have formally "trespassed" him with whomever is the rightful owner invoking their right to have him not there.
The incident across from the Inn @ the LT recently with another vagrant type camper attacking someone may have highlighted the dangers of ignoring problem people until someone gets hurt.
somers515
05-27-2023, 17:00
I'm guessing they have formally "trespassed" him with whomever is the rightful owner invoking their right to have him not there. . . .
As a retired assistant prosecutor, I agree with your guess LoneStranger. Formally close the shelter and area to camping and post notice, so when he is found camping there it is a criminal trespass. A condition of a conviction could be to no longer returning to that spot and/or mandated mental health counseling etc. At least that's how it could work in NJ.
And sorry my attempted copy and paste job of GMC's message was garbled. Here it is again in an easier to read format:
Be Advised: The Green Mountain Club is closing Pico Camp until unauthorized occupancy of the shelter can be resolved by local authorities.
This is a matter of public safety and hikers should find an alternate overnight site or accommodation.
We appreciate the concern and patience of the hiking community as we work to resolve this matter.
Alternative Overnight Suggestions:
Churchill Scott Shelter or Tucker Johnson Shelter on the Long Trail North
Cooper Lodge or Governor Clement Shelter on the Long Trail South
The Inn at the Long Trail on U.S. Route 4
More information on this and other trail updates: https://www.greenmountainclub.org/hiking/trail-updates/ (https://www.greenmountainclub.org/hiking/trail-updates/?fbclid=IwAR2oaeUsrt6RUNJ_Nd0Rlt8PHJXa2IGv1zxShMpX yQBr9TE-6-wOxl9xZpY)
IrishBASTARD
07-17-2023, 06:22
Has this issue been handled, I am asking as I would like to do fall hiking in the general area. Thank you...
peakbagger
07-17-2023, 10:20
With the flooding in VT, my guess is there are far more pressing issues out there.
IrishBASTARD
07-17-2023, 10:33
The issue has existed since prior to last July, the person in question regardless of situation, should have been removed if need be by arrest and committed. There exists no excuse, especially after 2019 to ignore threatening hikers or verbal intimidation of any sort, we all have bad days but when someone makes threats or tries to scare someone else, that causes a breakdown in overall trust for the trail and all groups involved. Had a situation in 2012 of a man with a gun tying up hikers as well a red truck and a man who drove you into the woods to dump you, if you didn't pay him "fifty bucks" that year a hiker outside of Franklin made them drop them off at the bus station or there about, their trail name was "Wandering Moose". We're not dealing with stable people obviously, however we are dealing with dangerous people. The flood has nothing to do with the issue, it had been going on for over a year I was reading and hearing about it from North Adams to Maine, days after it occurred to weeks later.
wornoutboots
07-18-2023, 07:42
There's another one at the Wildcat shelter in NY that threatens, plays loud music at night and generally makes a rukis. Yeah, when I Lashed that section last Fall, it was all over FarOut how he was threatening to kill hikers and would sign the register saying he was there with his bowie knife wanting to hunt down hikers. Apparently it's the same ole same ole, the authorities say they cannot do anything until until he actually "does" something, (hurts someone)?? I ended up in Greenwood Lake and slack-packed around the area.
The hard truth is that in American politics there's no money for politicians to launder off of the top of the mental health industry like other tangible situations, (Big Pharma, etc,) so I don't see anything happening until we have term limits to stop the blatant corruption in Our congressional "servants"
The issue has existed since prior to last July, the person in question regardless of situation, should have been removed if need be by arrest and committed. There exists no excuse, especially after 2019 to ignore threatening hikers or verbal intimidation of any sort, we all have bad days but when someone makes threats or tries to scare someone else, that causes a breakdown in overall trust for the trail and all groups involved. Had a situation in 2012 of a man with a gun tying up hikers as well a red truck and a man who drove you into the woods to dump you, if you didn't pay him "fifty bucks" that year a hiker outside of Franklin made them drop them off at the bus station or there about, their trail name was "Wandering Moose". We're not dealing with stable people obviously, however we are dealing with dangerous people. The flood has nothing to do with the issue, it had been going on for over a year I was reading and hearing about it from North Adams to Maine, days after it occurred to weeks later.
I think the point was that, due to the flooding now, there were other things that were taking precedence over worrying about this person at this particular time.
ezdoesit
07-18-2023, 15:33
Hi everyone ,
A copy and paste from the Long Tail/Greenmountain Club
Pico Camp Closure Notice
The Green Mountain Club is closing Pico Camp until unauthorized occupancy of the shelter can be resolved by local authorities. This is a matter of public safety and hikers should find an alternate overnight site or accommodation.
We appreciate the concern and patience of the hiking community as we work to resolve this matter.
Alternative Overnight Suggestions:
Churchill Scott Shelter or Tucker Johnson Shelter on the Long Trail North
Cooper Lodge or Governor Clement Shelter on the Long Trail South
The Inn at the Long Trail on U.S. Route 4