Getting Rid Of Goretex??

[brancher]

I have a pair of Montrail Torres GTX - good fit, very good boot, but they get wet on the inside, and I think it's due to the Goretex lining - my feet don't breathe well inside. I also keep them waterproofed on the outside, and re-waterproof them before every trip.

Okay, so IO'm looking to increase ventilation a little, and I was wondering if I should cut out the Goretex liner. Would that make the shoe less likely to trap moisture inside (making them drier and minimizing the wetness and potential for hotspots and blisters)?

Anyone tried this? What do you think?

br

[bulldog49]

Gortex is a membrane that adheres to the inner and outer fabric layers of the shoe. You can't remove it without destroying the shoe.

Only solution is to buy a new pair of shoes.

[Skidsteer]

Anyone tried this? What do you think? br

No, but I've thought about doing the same operation on my Hi-Tec V-Lites.

Please let me know how it turns out if you give it a try.

[Ridge]

I tried the gortex boot thing once, for about a year, it was a big mistake. My feet stayed wet from the sweat. They just could not, in any way, shed the sweat my feet generated. Boots with a waterproof lining is fine for hunters, outdoor workers, not hikers. You will have to replace the footwear, the gortex is incorporated in such a way as to make it impossible to remove.

[Lone Wolf]

Gore-Tex is over-hyped, overpriced BS.

[Shutterbug]

I have a pair of Montrail Torres GTX - good fit, very good boot, but they get wet on the inside, and I think it's due to the Goretex lining - my feet don't breathe well inside. I also keep them waterproofed on the outside, and re-waterproof them before every trip.

Okay, so IO'm looking to increase ventilation a little, and I was wondering if I should cut out the Goretex liner. Would that make the shoe less likely to trap moisture inside (making them drier and minimizing the wetness and potential for hotspots and blisters)?

Anyone tried this? What do you think?

br

The Goretex isn't the problem. It is the waterproofing on the outside of the shoe. For the sweat from your feet to get out, the boots have to breath too. When you seal the moisture off with waterproofing, you are keeping the sweat in. I have a pair of the Montrail GTX that I have never waterproofed. With sock liners and wool socks, my feet don't get wet unless rain runs down my legs into the boots or I step in water over the top.

[Footslogger]

GorTex isn't overrated, just misunderstood. GorTex does exactly what the manufacture says it does. Problem is that the same thing that keeps water out ...keeps water in. Case in point, if it's hot and humid outside the boot/shoe and hot and humid inside the boot/shoe ...any moisture involved is going to stay right where it is. In other words if your feet sweat they're gonna get wet.

Best place for GorTex (at least in footwear) is in lower humidity climates.

'Slogger

[Two Speed]

The Goretex isn't the problem. . .That hasn't been my experience. I tried out a pair of Vasque Talus with Goretex lining; have to be extremely careful about blistering in those boots. Never had problems in Sundowners, same in sandals, blisters on top of blisters in Goretex lined boots. Of course, my hiking has been limited to the southeast, and we get LOTS of moisture, so that could be the reason I've found Goretex lined boots to be problematic.

[txulrich]

That hasn't been my experience. I tried out a pair of Vasque Talus with Goretex lining; have to be extremely careful about blistering in those boots. Never had problems in Sundowners, same in sandals, blisters on top of blisters in Goretex lined boots. Of course, my hiking has been limited to the southeast, and we get LOTS of moisture, so that could be the reason I've found Goretex lined boots to be problematic.

I think you quoted what was said out of context. Brancher prohibited the Goretex from doing its job by adding additional (and unneccesary) waterproofing to the outside of the boot. By doing so, there is no chance that the boot can breathe. That is what Shutterbug was referring to when he said that the Goretex wasn't the problem.

Now, having said that, you are prolly right when you say that Goretex can cause you to have problems. Do you wear a liner sock? How tall are the hiking socks you wear? The typical way for the moisture to escape is to migrate up the socks. Wearing shorter socks does not help.

Personally, I like a boot with a Goretex liner. However, I also buy a boot that has a lot of mesh in it instead of all leather. This helps to keep my feet a lot cooler.

[scothiker]

So - if I have Hi-Tec boots without a Goretex liner, should I waterproof them, or leave them alone? So far I haven't had any problems in rain, my feet have stayed dry; and they seem to breathe pretty well. So, just leave them alone? Or since they don't have the Goretex liner, maybe the waterproofing won't hurt their breathability?

[Two Speed]

I think you quoted what was said out of context. . .No, I don't think I did. Vasque Talus boots are cloth and suede leather, and I haven't tried any external waterproofing on these boots. If Goretex lined boots work for you, that's great but I'm not real impressed.

Of course, I'm less and less impressed with Vasque products as time goes on, but that's another can of worms.

[Footslogger]

So - if I have Hi-Tec boots without a Goretex liner, should I waterproof them, or leave them alone? So far I haven't had any problems in rain, my feet have stayed dry; and they seem to breathe pretty well. So, just leave them alone? Or since they don't have the Goretex liner, maybe the waterproofing won't hurt their breathability?
=======================================
If they're leather you still need some form of conditioner applied to avoid drying/thinning and eventually cracking. You just want to avoid the heavy waxy based products (like SnoSeal) that clog the pores of the leather and prevent passage of moisture vapor.

'Slogger

[bulldog49]

For summer hiking in the Appalachians, your feet will get very warm in GT boots/shoes. But for cool/wet weather I always wear GT boots and despite claims to the contrary by some, they keep my feet dry and comfortable.

I've spent more than a few winter nights in a shelter with hikers using trail runners complaining how wet and cold their feet were while I've taken off my light weight GT boots with socks so dry I did not change them before crawling into my bag for the night.

[brancher]

I think you quoted what was said out of context. Brancher prohibited the Goretex from doing its job by adding additional (and unneccesary) waterproofing to the outside of the boot. By doing so, there is no chance that the boot can breathe. That is what Shutterbug was referring to when he said that the Goretex wasn't the problem.

Now, having said that, you are prolly right when you say that Goretex can cause you to have problems. Do you wear a liner sock? How tall are the hiking socks you wear? The typical way for the moisture to escape is to migrate up the socks. Wearing shorter socks does not help.

Personally, I like a boot with a Goretex liner. However, I also buy a boot that has a lot of mesh in it instead of all leather. This helps to keep my feet a lot cooler.

Yes, I did and I do waterproof. The problem is that with these boots in the Southern Appalachians, my feet do get wet, and even if I change socks twice a day, I'm still subject to hotspots adn big-time blisters. They are not noew; I've had them for 2 years, and have hiked in mud, rain, and snow. You guys may bave a point with the external waterproofing thing - maybe I'll just not waterproof them for awhile, and see what happens.

I did hear about the typical GTX demo where they pour boiling water into a GTX bag, to show the steam escaping while teh water stays in. That's great if you give off 212-degree sweat from your feet, but I am not sure how that applies to hiking.

Sounds like (ugh) I need to get some cooler boots for this weather on my sections - I am lusting after a pair of suede / mesh Merrills right now, but I hate to throw away the $125.00 I paid for the Montrails (yes, I know, 2 years ago, but....)....

The Merrills also have gtx, but they are a lighter boot with mesh, and since I only carry around 30-32 lbs for a week, they should be fine, especially on on the southern AT. On a lighter boot with mesh, perhaps the gtx will perform a little better? Thoughts?

btw, I never had any blisters or major foot problems until I wore these. I did a seciton last week, and my feet were my downfall - not my legs, or my shelter, aor food. My feet. I even have some 8" Georgia Giant work boots, non-gtx, that I've never had any problems with. MUST be the moisture retention of the gtx, and that's why I'm looking to strip it out somehow....

[Phreak]

I wear GT trail runners year round and have never had any issues. I'm in Georgia.. where the heat and humidity are ridiculous in the summer and they work fine for me. No blisters, no ventilation issues or my feet "getting too hot" from the Goretex.

[Footslogger]

I wear GT trail runners year round and have never had any issues. I'm in Georgia.. where the heat and humidity are ridiculous in the summer and they work fine for me. No blisters, no ventilation issues or my feet "getting too hot" from the Goretex.
===============================
My experience to date has been the same. Low cut trail runners apparently vent a lot more efficiently than tightly laced high top boots. I can wear my GorTex lined boots out here with no problem but back east on the AT they are like sauna's.

'Slogger

[brancher]

Gotit. I am beginning to think that the GTX on more heavy boots like the Torres, that are regularly waterproofed, may be superfluous, especially in the south (I just spent a week on the GA section and got foot probs). I will look seriously at picking up a pair of lighter weight trail mids for 3-season use, especially for Southern AT areas. So for now, maybe I will let the waterproofing wear off and see if the leather breathes with the GTX on its own.

I gotta say, though, I've heard about the demo where the guy pours boiling water into a gtx bag and shows the steam escaping while the water stays in. I think that's great, but I don't produce 212-degree moisture, so I'm not sure of the validity of that demo.

Anyway, sounds like I need to save the Torres for cold, wet stuff and pick up a pair of lighter weight mids for the southern trail. Thanks.

p.s. Anyone have an extra $125.00 they don't need??

[Footslogger]

[quote=brancher]I gotta say, though, I've heard about the demo where the guy pours boiling water into a gtx bag and shows the steam escaping while the water stays in. I think that's great, but I don't produce 212-degree moisture, so I'm not sure of the validity of that demo.
=======================================
I worked in retail for a while in the outdoor/camping goods arena. The Gortex folks used to come in and update us once a year on their products and technology. The demo they did consisted of 2 mitts, one made of gortex and the other made of plastic. They filled a bucket with tap water and had us place one hand in each of the mitts and then stick them in the water. The hand covered with the Gortex mitt stayed comfortable while the hand covered in plastic got warm and clammy.

'Slogger

[Ridge]

I use Gortex mittens, they work fine. I wear all leather inside and out boots, I seal the outer stitching with a semi-rigid sealer and treat the remainder with aquaseal. I use my GTX Vasque boots for ballgames, etc they are great for keeping the feet dry and warm when you're standing around and not doing a lot, but I'll never hike in them again.

[syncop8ted]

With Vasque Clarion GTXs, I had a couple instances where I had happy dry feet after hiking all day in early March downpours. The leather outsides were soaked but the insides were completely dry. The next morning, woke up to damp boots on the inside. Good ole' gravity.

Gortex is not, from my understanding, a non-permeable membrane. The ‘one way moisture direction’ feature only works so long as the two sides of the membrane are different temperatures. After the above experience, I always treat the leather on my Vasque Clarions in the winter or during especially rainy seasons with a water based sealer and haven't had this problem since. If there's any doubt tho, I flip the boots upside down so gravity will pull the dampness towards the outside of the leather instead of towards the inside bootie.

As for the blister-hotspot issue, I've only ever had hotspots in August temps, downhill. Probably an issue that could be solved with liners but I only ever wear merino wool light hikers. Never any blisters tho to blame on the GTX. My feet don’t usually tend to overheat in these boots.

I too have been considering the switch to a shoe, but mostly for the weight factor, not so much for hotspots or blisters. Read somewhere that if ya carry an extra pound for each step you take on a 10 mile hike you'll carry an extra 10 tons at the end of the day. I apologize in advance that I can't credit that fact; I read it flipping through a book at the local bookstore/coffee shop and can’t remember the name or author.

Any recommendations for trail shoes? I have a very old pair of Nike/ACGs I love that have 1000+ miles on them, but the tread is long gone and I can’t get by using them for anything more than a daily dog walk. This time, I’m definitely getting a shoe w/GTX because the only draw back to the ACGs is that my feet get soaked just walking in wet grass let alone fording. I’m actually sad to have to retire these shoes.

Sync

[Blue Jay]

GorTex isn't overrated, just misunderstood. GorTex does exactly what the manufacture says it does. Problem is that the same thing that keeps water out ...keeps water in. Case in point, if it's hot and humid outside the boot/shoe and hot and humid inside the boot/shoe ...any moisture involved is going to stay right where it is. In other words if your feet sweat they're gonna get wet.

Best place for GorTex (at least in footwear) is in lower humidity climates.

'Slogger

As usual Footslogger is exactly correct. The problem is when you put the words Goretex and boot together. They both have waterproof properties and both are porous. Put them together, the pores cannot line up thus no ventilation and wet feet. Goretex cannot work with leather. I use it in trail shoes and have no problems. While hiking your feet sweat, even if you wear sandals. You want dry feet stay home.

[Chef2000]

I have been wearing Vasgue Goretex boots for years, they do not need extra waterproofing. If you do wear the proper wicking sock You can keep your feet dry. Whatever you wear, always take your boots off at least once during the day and change your socks.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

I have a pair of Montrail Torres GTX - good fit, very good boot, but they get wet on the inside, and I think it's due to the Goretex lining - my feet don't breathe well inside. I also keep them waterproofed on the outside, and re-waterproof them before every trip.

Okay, so IO'm looking to increase ventilation a little, and I was wondering if I should cut out the Goretex liner. Would that make the shoe less likely to trap moisture inside (making them drier and minimizing the wetness and potential for hotspots and blisters)?

Anyone tried this? What do you think?

br

Waterproofing the boots may be why they don't breathe. Does Montrail suggust you do this? I wear Lowa renegades and while they get soaked outside, the inside stays ultra-dry thanks to the GTX liner. No they are a bit hotter, so wicking socks and some foot powder keep the feet dry from most sweat.

[brancher]

Waterproofing the boots may be why they don't breathe. Does Montrail suggust you do this? I wear Lowa renegades and while they get soaked outside, the inside stays ultra-dry thanks to the GTX liner. No they are a bit hotter, so wicking socks and some foot powder keep the feet dry from most sweat.
Hi,

Actually, I called Montrail, and they told me categorically that the Nikwax treatment does not contribute to the problem, and in fact probably wears off rather than being a culprit. Montrail said that the problem is that Gortex naturally adds 10-20 degrees to your foot, and during mild or warm weather it is bound to create a lot of moisture (only if your feet sweat, he said....boy, that's a relief).

Then, too, I ran across a podcast on the Western Mountaineering site, and they talked about Gortex a bit - saying that the classic gortex just isn't as passive as one may believe from the advertising, and that the Gore company has made some great strides with other, newer, materials.

So, I'm gonna keep 'em, scrub the outside to get the Nikwax out as much as I can, loosen the lacing a tad, go to a thinner sock (and change 'em more in hotter weather), and go to a mesh (non-gortex) lightweight mid for 3 season wear. I just picked up a pair of Merrell Mesa Vent Mid's with a store credit - extremely comfy (and did I say 'light'?)- I'll do a shakedown in a couple of weeks when I finish GA.

I'll save the Torres GTX's for the more severe trips, 'cause they really are great boots and have a place in my heart .;)

[Twofiddy]

I have a pair of Montrail Torres GTX - good fit, very good boot, but they get wet on the inside, and I think it's due to the Goretex lining - my feet don't breathe well inside. I also keep them waterproofed on the outside, and re-waterproof them before every trip.

Okay, so IO'm looking to increase ventilation a little, and I was wondering if I should cut out the Goretex liner. Would that make the shoe less likely to trap moisture inside (making them drier and minimizing the wetness and potential for hotspots and blisters)?

Anyone tried this? What do you think?

br

I think that part of your problem with your gortex shoes is that you waterproofed them. Gortex shoes do not need to be waterproofed. The membrain is designed to allow moisture to pass from the inside to the outside with the heat that your feet create. Gortex for your shoes is different than gortex for your jacket or pants. The only gortex shoes that should be waterproofed are full grain leather gortex shoes and those should only, and I mean absoloutly only be waterproofed with aquious nixwax.

All other gortex shoe sealants will clog the gortex, cause your feet to sweat, and make the inside of the shoes wet. Put your feet in 2 plastic bags and see how wet they get.

The chance that you have a pair of shoes with a bad gortex liner in them is slim, but the MFG could tell you that probably if you send them back. Heck they might just even give you a new pair of boots for the heck of it.

[overmywaders]

Single-piece, full-grain leather uppers fastened to the mid-sole with Norwegian, Littleway (Blake), or a Goodyear welt, leather-lined, were the standard in backpacking boots for many years. Gradually the industry tried to lure buyers away from these boots -- not because the makers had found superior materials or methods, but because the material costs, labor costs and skills required for creating these boots were too high. There was not a large enough profit margin and the boots lasted for many years. The first step was to do away with the stitched soles in favor of gluing. Next the one-piece upper (expensive and hard to form) was replaced with scrap pieces of leather. All of this new stitching represented leak points, so they replaced the glove leather liner with Goretex. Now that they were using a waterproof bootie, they could really go low end and use fabrics and decorative stitching (all of which was liable to abrasion and fashion trends, thus shortening the boots lifespan).

The latest marketing scam is Nubuck leather. Nubuck is lower grade leather with cosmetic defects (scars, color issues, etc.) which is abraded and colored to make it homogenious in color. The abrasion obviously affects the waterproofing characteristics, but the intent is to sell product at a price point, not necessarily good product. As a backup for the damage done to the leather they sell you a liner of Goretex which will keep your feet dry -- until it won't. Of course, the downside is that it keeps your feet hot.

So, we might ask, why worry about the longevity of the boot when the maker designed-in a very limited life-span? Well, I would do my best to preserve them out of sheer obstinacy. I would hit them with a wax-based sealer, such as Nikwax or Sno-seal and continue to do so. I would treat them like object d'art and enjoy them long past the maker's expectations. Then I would buy a pair of full-grain leather, single-piece upper boots with no Goretex and laugh at Madison Avenue.

But, that's just me.

Best regards,
Reed

[alalskaman]

I don't know if this applies to thru-hikers...but really the only footgear I've ever used that was satisfactory for continuous wet conditions is the old LL Bean rubber bottom, leather or canvas tops - the "Maine Hunting Shoe." ALL water will be kept outside. You will steam up a bit inside, but next morning a pair of dry socks, or the ones you wore in your sleepingbag, will fix you up. Anything else I've tried, leather, fabric, goretex, whatever, will eventually be wetter than when you began. I personally do not need "support" whatever the h. that is, and find them comfortable for all-day walking. The question is, would anyone be willing to consider carrying them on a thru hike, and swapping out when it got seriously wet. Somehow, I doubt it. But the new, lightest waxed canvas models might be worth considering....good evening shoes, for one thing.

[Amigi'sLastStand]

Gore-Tex is over-hyped, overpriced BS.

Amen, brother.;)

[sum41punk91]

ya know this may offend people but water proff boots suck, unless you are guarenteed to walk in only 3 inches of water they are no good, why no just get a pair of breathable boots that was(especially in summer) your feet will stay dry and cool