View Full Version : Whadya think of new forum?
sierraDoug
04-14-2006, 02:24
I stumbled across this new backpacking forum. He doesn't say much of anything that I can see about why he started it, or what's different about it.
Anyone got any ideas, or opinions on it?
http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/index.php
max patch
04-14-2006, 09:58
I would be interested in knowing who the webmaster is and what the mission of their website is.
While we may not agree with all the decisions that Attroll and Rock make, we know who they are and have a pretty good sense of their core beliefs. They do not hide behind a trail name.
Why is this important? Long time members will recall that when this site first started the "thru hiking experts" were 2 moderators who both failed in their attempts. One made it to Gatlinburg, the other a bit past Damascus. How much was their expert "advice" worth?
jasonklass
04-15-2006, 23:40
I happen to be a moderator on the above-mentioned forum. Many people would ask the same questions you do; especially when there are so many other forums out there out already. I can't speak for the administrator but maybe I can shed some light on why I think it's a good idea and why I joined up.
Many of the new subscribers say that the reason they joined was because they recognised the names. This means we are attracting high-quality people who have a lot of innovative ideas to contribute.
PBF offers more sophisticated user control. In many other forums out there, you can't PM, post a picture in your thread, post a profile picture, etc. Even more "established" forums like BPL and backpacker.com are low tech in comparison.
Even though there are threads that are "more established", the activity is ridiculous. For instance, I've waited for days while a thread went untouched on BPL. This shows a lack of community, creativity, and enthusiasm. In the few short weeks that PB has been around, It's already proven itself (in my opinion). I just like the tech features and people we tend to attract. I'm not saying the other forums are bad. I'll always continue to participate in them, but it's time for something fresh and new.
Our forum is
sierraDoug
04-16-2006, 01:20
Good points. I guess I just found it weird that the moderator (owner?) says zero about who he is or what his mission statement is. Makes me a little suspicious of his motives.
I tried starting a thread over there at PB asking him about this and he deleted it. Though he did PM me to say there's nothing mysterious about it.
Good points. I guess I just found it weird that the moderator (owner?) says zero about who he is or what his mission statement is. Makes me a little suspicious of his motives.
I tried starting a thread over there at PB asking him about this and he deleted it. Though he did PM me to say there's nothing mysterious about it.
I thought the same thing. They have a "Tell us about yourself forum" but he has not posted about himself. It is no big deal it will all come out in the wash sooner or later. Hopefully he has nothing to hide that way it will not work against the site later. I don't think that is the case though. I think it is just someone starting a new forum hoping for success and I am sure it is someone we know that wants to stay low right now. I hope them great success.
brancher
04-16-2006, 06:48
I say no big deal. I encourage the effort, as long as the forum establishes a good persona. He is right; there are a lot of forums out there. I personally like this on the best, because of the sheer number of knowledgeable offerings here, but even some of the posts on this one turn pretty silly sometimes.
peter_pan
04-16-2006, 09:43
Quick scan indicates the forum is in its infancy....did notice that beside the lack of mission statement and forum ownership that the for sale section requires all posting to be prior approved...also that you can not create a signature until you post number is up...but I didn't see the minimum post number stated...Personally this seems like forum to check each week or month to see if it develops....will put it on the lurk list....wait and see.
Pan
hikerjohnd
04-16-2006, 10:01
Looks like it is strictly backpacking - no politics or other topics not related. I wonder (and I have not searched) where the topic of the proposed I-3 would be over there? Perhaps a mission statement is in the works and will clearly define the sites purpose.
I stumbled across this new backpacking forum. He doesn't say much of anything that I can see about why he started it, or what's different about it.
Anyone got any ideas, or opinions on it?
http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/index.php
:D no hammock forum huh:cool: neo
I don't understand everyones need to see a mission statement on a backpacking forum. lol Maybe I'm not the expert online-hiiker that some are, but what's to know?
It's a forum on hiking. What devious ulterior motives could they have? If you like it, simply join the discussion.
Mission statement. What's your mission statement when hiking?
Kerosene
04-16-2006, 13:35
Note that WhiteBlaze didn't have a mission statement or much of any structure for several years after it started, and then only because Sgt. Rock proffered the idea and drafted something. It certainly shouldn't be a prerequisite to start a forum!
max patch
04-16-2006, 14:03
Note that WhiteBlaze didn't have a mission statement or much of any structure for several years after it started, and then only because Sgt. Rock proffered the idea and drafted something. It certainly shouldn't be a prerequisite to start a forum!
The issue isn't so much the lack of a mission statement as it is the webmaster hiding behind a trail name. Who is s/he? What is their experience? What is their philosophy? Just reminds me of the original webmaster here who attempted to hide behind a trail name until he was discovered.
papa john
04-16-2006, 15:20
Do a whois on the domain name and you might find out who the owner is.
jasonklass
04-16-2006, 15:38
I don't understand everyones need to see a mission statement on a backpacking forum. lol Maybe I'm not the expert online-hiiker that some are, but what's to know?
It's a forum on hiking. What devious ulterior motives could they have? If you like it, simply join the discussion.
Mission statement. What's your mission statement when hiking?
Well said! I don't know who the administrators of Whiteblaze, Backpacking Lightweight, Club Tread, or Backpacker are and I really don't care. I go to the forums to get and share ideas and that's it. The only site I know the administrator of is Ryan Jordan at BPL and that doesn't really contribute anything to my experience in the forums. I'm sure everyone has their own idea of what they want to get out of a forum. My only interests are if it is active and if the posts are of good quality. But I can understand why some would want to know a little background information about the people running a forum (especially if it's new).
For those who are interested, here is an introduction of the administrator of Practical Backpacking: http://practicalbackpacking.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1430#post1430
jasonklass
04-16-2006, 15:40
Looks like it is strictly backpacking - no politics or other topics not related.
That's exactly why I like it so much! ;)
hikerjohnd
04-16-2006, 15:55
Well said! I don't know who the administrators of Whiteblaze, Backpacking Lightweight, Club Tread, or Backpacker are and I really don't care. I go to the forums to get and share ideas and that's it. The only site I know the administrator of is Ryan Jordan at BPL and that doesn't really contribute anything to my experience in the forums. I'm sure everyone has their own idea of what they want to get out of a forum. My only interests are if it is active and if the posts are of good quality. But I can understand why some would want to know a little background information about the people running a forum (especially if it's new).
For those who are interested, here is an introduction of the administrator of Practical Backpacking: http://practicalbackpacking.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1430#post1430
OK - so maybe mission statement is a bit over the top in vocabulary - but imbedded in the link above we find this:
PBF is here to help myself and others fine-tune their backpacking gear and skills in a friendly, conducive environment. It also affords us a place to share our backpacking experiences and ideas with each other.
Simple enough for me - someone has started a site to meet his/her needs, and hopefully the needs of others. I'll continue to lurk and maybe even join in. Personally, I like the lack of politics...:-?
Note that WhiteBlaze didn't have a mission statement or much of any structure for several years after it started, and then only because Sgt. Rock proffered the idea and drafted something. It certainly shouldn't be a prerequisite to start a forum!
Hey get your story straight. I drafter the mission statement for WhiteBlaze. LOL. Not that it really matters who did it. Just want to to step forward.
As everyone else said, a mission statement is not really needed and like Kerosene said WhiteBlaze did not put our mission statement up for a couple of years. We assumed that since it was dealing with the Appalachian Trail that it was self explanatory. I think dealing with backpacking it is also self explanatory.
Woops, I just saw that he has his mission statement up. That tells me that he comes to these forums or he is on these forums or Jackonklass said something to him. LOL
Think this could be the guy?
http://www.berniewilt.com/blog/about.php
i would think if you'd want to ask questions about "practical backpacking"...you'd ask them here!:D
with that said.......there's always room for information outlets!
I'll wait and see how it goes - ever since AT Basecamp came and went I have been cautious about investing much effort into a new forum - I use Whiteblaze to keep the dream alive, TT to keep me amused and for the trips, Around the Campfire for my stovie addiction and for the international user base, and TLB rarely for gear questions.
Rain Man
04-17-2006, 12:40
Might be a good alternative site for all those who abuse WhiteBlaze (a place for AT enthusiasts) by posting non-AT stuff and those who engage in pissing contests (oops, that new place says they won't allow that!)?
Rain:sunMan
.
Might be a good alternative site for all those who abuse WhiteBlaze (a place for AT enthusiasts) by posting non-AT stuff ....
.
If the owners of this BBS have forums for non-AT stuff, then it is not abuse. Is it?
Don't like non-AT stuff...don't read it. Never understand why you kvetch so much about non-AT forums when you have a choice about reading them or not.
Since the owners of this site have setup serveral forums for non-AT issues, I would tihnk it is quite fine to post in the non-AT areas and not "abuse" as you say.
This site is for AT enthusiasts...not exclusively for the Appalachian Trail.
sierraDoug
04-19-2006, 02:12
If the owners of this BBS have forums for non-AT stuff, then it is not abuse. Is it?
Don't like non-AT stuff...don't read it. Never understand why you kvetch so much about non-AT forums when you have a choice about reading them or not.
Since the owners of this site have setup serveral forums for non-AT issues, I would tihnk it is quite fine to post in the non-AT areas and not "abuse" as you say.
This site is for AT enthusiasts...not exclusively for the Appalachian Trail.
Now, this would never have gotten by the admin at PBF. ;)
Might be a good alternative site for all those who abuse WhiteBlaze (a place for AT enthusiasts) by posting non-AT stuff and those who engage in pissing contests (oops, that new place says they won't allow that!)?
Rain:sunMan
.
Like you just did? ;)
What about whiners? :-?
Here is another site that has been up for a while now that never took off either. It looks to be a good well thought out site too.
www.thruhikes.net (http://www.thruhikes.net)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-19-2006, 07:19
Personally, I don't see a problem with new sites springing up. The new site under discussion has an entirely different feel than this forum and may become a place for those who choose a less 'wide-open / pretty much anything goes' environment for sharing hiking information to post & read.
WhiteBlaze is an older site and has evolved to where it is via trial and error. It strives to accommodate the entire hiking community. This new site, if it survives, will do the same over time. For now, it is small enough that the moderators can manage to keep a lot of the negativity that plagues all large sites - regardless of their topic area - off the site. I find that refreshing. The members generally get to know each other more deeply on smaller sites than on sites with thousands of members - that is both a good and a bad thing. Obviously, the number of people reading and commenting on smaller sites is smaller, but this is somewhat offset by the fact that people tend to respond with more depth on smaller sites.
SgtRock & ATTroll do an excellent job of administering this site and I know it isn't easy. I help administer a couple of sites (not about hiking) with similar-sized membership to WhiteBlaze and the problems are constant.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-10-2006, 14:59
Think this could be the guy?
http://www.berniewilt.com/blog/about.phpThat is the guy.
The new Practicalbackpacking forum doesn't seem to be doing very well - it dwindled down to just a handful of people discussing their hiking and gear preferences among themselves. It is far too heavily moderated for my taste - made me appreciate this place much more.
Skidsteer
05-10-2006, 18:09
That is the guy.
The new Practicalbackpacking forum doesn't seem to be doing very well - it dwindled down to just a handful of people discussing their hiking and gear preferences among themselves. It is far too heavily moderated for my taste - made me appreciate this place much more.
I signed up in order to be allowed to scan the member profiles and get a feel for the folks who make up the membership. No dice. I still wasn't allowed to view the profiles. :confused: :mad: I've lost interest in it as a result.
Clark Fork
05-10-2006, 18:28
That is the guy.
The new Practicalbackpacking forum doesn't seem to be doing very well - it dwindled down to just a handful of people discussing their hiking and gear preferences among themselves. It is far too heavily moderated for my taste - made me appreciate this place much more.
"too heavily moderated"? I'll say so....
I posted a couple of times and got prompt private e-mails back admonishing me for the error of my ways. My transgression? I posted an URL incorrectly! My post was edited and "fixed" by the Moderator in Chief. Later I responded to a post that apparently had drifted "off topic." The second e-mail to me on posting something off topic was entitled "Gentle Nudge." The thread was locked after my post. I accepted the "Gentle Nudge" picked up my marbles and went home.
I thanked them, promised to be a good little boy and skedaddled back to Whiteblaze.net where I am free to be an idiot. Word to the wise, if you decide to post on their site, learn the rules, study up, and for heaven's sake, don't go off topic.
Say, Frolickers, and this is way off topic, I saw a great bumper sticker the other day and thought of you guys. "We stop at all dinosaur crossings."
Now I will wait to see if our folks at Whiteblaze have learned anything and will call in an air strike for posting off topic.
Regards,
Clark Fork in Western Montana "Where Seldom is Heard a Discouraging Word."
Kozmic Zian
05-10-2006, 19:31
Yea, Forum....
WHAT FORUM?
KZ@
Pacific Tortuga
05-10-2006, 19:37
Here is another site that has been up for a while now that never took off either. It looks to be a good well thought out site too.
www.thruhikes.net (http://www.thruhikes.net)
It may be due to the fact they have a special hammock section :cool:
Just Jeff
05-10-2006, 19:38
Yep - my whole thread got deleted b/c I asked about the copyright notice...in the PBF Help forum. It's pretty heavily moderated but at least it stays on topic. I'm not ready to give up on it yet.
The whole secrecy thing over how many posts you need to "earn" certain privelages is kinda irritating, though. I had to have so many posts before I could create a poll, and I'm guessing that viewing the profiles is the same way. Why should this be secret?
But it's his forum - I'll play nice as long as it's useful.
Skidsteer
05-10-2006, 19:50
The whole secrecy thing over how many posts you need to "earn" certain privelages is kinda irritating, though. I had to have so many posts before I could create a poll, and I'm guessing that viewing the profiles is the same way. Why should this be secret?
But it's his forum - I'll play nice as long as it's useful.
Maybe he could be persuaded to participate in a "forum reciprocity program" whereby WB posts( or a percentage thereof ) transfer like college credits. :D
Nahh! He probaby developed his "forum moderation philosophy" as a result of reading our threads on White Blaze. Different Strokes......:rolleyes:
Jack Tarlin
05-10-2006, 20:02
There are internet Trail Forums that in my opinion aren't moderated ENOUGH.
There are others that are obviously moderated too much. And we sure don't need any more overbearing ones.
For folks seeking nuts and bolts information about the Trail, especially those planning their first long-distance backpacking trip, there are, in my opinion, sufficient forums already; there may in fact be TOO many for most folks to keep up with. When information is too widely dispersed, it means that most folks will never see it.
If Whiteblaze folk want to go check out new forums, that's fine, but keep in mind that WB has become, in a few short years, THE best place to share and exchange information on the the A.T. If you want your message heard and read, and if you're really interested in sharing stuff with folks and helping the new guys, THIS is the best place to do it.
Just Jeff
05-10-2006, 20:43
...WB has become, in a few short years, THE best place to share and exchange information on the the A.T. If you want your message heard and read, and if you're really interested in sharing stuff with folks and helping the new guys, THIS is the best place to do it...
Agree. But that one isn't just about the AT, and for us folks who no longer live near the AT it's nice to have a forum that's not focused on the East Coast. I know there are "Other Trails" forums here, too, but it's still nice to have a forum where I'm not in the minority (except as a hammocker :p ).
I wonder how long it'll take for PCT-L to migrate to a WB-style board. The format now is too cumbersome to me to bother with.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-10-2006, 21:43
The whole secrecy thing over how many posts you need to "earn" certain privelages is kinda irritating, though. I had to have so many posts before I could create a poll, and I'm guessing that viewing the profiles is the same way. Why should this be secret?
But it's his forum - I'll play nice as long as it's useful.The secrecy thing plus several 'gentle nudges' were the deal breakers for me. I wish Ma Huasheng would post here. His post were among the best I'd seen anywhere, but he left that site.
Just Jeff
05-10-2006, 21:56
Yeah - I got a not so gentle nudge about that thread. Really came across as "who are you to question me?"
sierraDoug
05-11-2006, 03:12
I like that it's not about the AT, and that it's not full of silly, nasty name calling and such.
I don't like just how much of a control freak he is. But I can see how it's sorta the best way to keep the silly nasty stuff out. On the other hand, going off topic, or asking how things work there seems harmless, or a fair subject.
I bet the priveleges thing is meant to encourage you to put up a lot of posts so the site will grow. Just a guess.
Just goes to show how hard it is to run and grow a really good forum.
If you want to try a good AT forum, consider
http://appalachiantrailservices.com/
It has forums, not overused yet. And the planning section is great. Every road crossing has a web page, and had information about everything a thruhiker could possibly want.
In fact, I think I'll post what they do have in its own thread
TN_Hiker
05-11-2006, 10:41
I was curious and had to check it out as well. Some things are that forum are annoying. I think Mr. Bernie is a control freak. Every WB should at least visit the other forum so they will realize how damn good we have it on WB!!!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-11-2006, 10:51
If you want to try a good AT forum, consider
http://appalachiantrailservices.com/Thank you so much for this link. It has a great deal of info that will make planning for section hikes so much easier. I owe you a big hug and some tasty grub at TrailDays.
I think Mr. Bernie is a control freak.I believe you've nailed the root cause of the problem. An on-topic site without rancor is a good idea, but there are far better ways to go about producing one than having one guy micro-manage everyone's posting.
It sounds like I'm in good company. I, too, received a PM from the owner chastising me about one of my posts. I understand and accept that it's his website, his rules...but judging from this thread, he may be lonely at the top.
Skidsteer
05-11-2006, 18:44
An on-topic site without rancor is a good idea, but there are far better ways to go about producing one than having one guy micro-manage everyone's posting.
Exactly.
Moderators moderate what the members of the forum post on the forum to keep it flowing and( in theory ) civilized.
A message board, eventually, becomes a composite image of the members, not the moderator(s). If the moderator uses a too heavy hand to mold the discussions, eventually it becomes a one-sided discussion.
One of the best ways, IMO, for a moderator to guide the tone of threads is to voice their opinions openly and clearly on the thread for all to see. Sgt. Rock, Attroll, and Dixicritter have all done this from time to time and, because they're respected by most members it tends to cool things down somewhat. I'm thankful for the job they do.
If the moderator uses a too heavy hand to mold the discussions, eventually it becomes a one-sided discussion.
Yeah, sort of like trying to have a discussion with Shaun Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.
Skidsteer
05-11-2006, 19:02
Yeah, sort of like trying to have a discussion with Shaun Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.
Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun to have one of those "caller mute buttons" in real life? Handy, don't you think?:D
Agree. But that one isn't just about the AT, and for us folks who no longer live near the AT it's nice to have a forum that's not focused on the East Coast. I know there are "Other Trails" forums here, too, but it's still nice to have a forum where I'm not in the minority (except as a hammocker :p ).
I wonder how long it'll take for PCT-L to migrate to a WB-style board. The format now is too cumbersome to me to bother with.
I think I responded to a similar thought earlier. Ryan from backcountry.net tried a similar web forum in addition to the email list with the at-l, but it didn't get much play from the long time listers.
It's only an email list(s), not that cumbersome, and help prepare many a AT, PCT, CDT and other National Scenic Trail hiker long before vBulletin became popular.
Funny, he list one of his dislikes as: Poor leadership. Lead by example he says, and avoid "power trips" :confused:
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-11-2006, 23:01
That's even funnier than his site's stats - 159 active members. Maybe in his dreams.
Just Jeff
05-11-2006, 23:02
I think I responded to a similar thought earlier. Ryan from backcountry.net tried a similar web forum in addition to the email list with the at-l, but it didn't get much play from the long time listers.
It's only an email list(s), not that cumbersome, and help prepare many a AT, PCT, CDT and other National Scenic Trail hiker long before vBulletin became popular.
I agree that they're very helpful - didn't mean to imply otherwise. But I don't like to subscribe to emails that fill up my inbox, so I read stuff on the webpages (BGT, hammockcamping, etc). The PCT-L one was a little more cumbersome than even the Yahoo groups...I had to click on every single post even if it was just a "me too" reply. On Yahoo, there's a preview of 2-3 lines that lets me know if it's worth clicking on.
Anyway, I'm sure they're very informative...there are just other forums like this one where the people are just as knowledgable but they're easier to use. If I start hiking the PCT or CDT I'm sure I'll look them up.
saimyoji
05-11-2006, 23:29
I was curious and had to check it out as well. Some things are that forum are annoying. I think Mr. Bernie is a control freak. Every WB should at least visit the other forum so they will realize how damn good we have it on WB!!!
Having been kicked off WF's site so many times I don't have any email addresses left to sign up again, I'd say I know pretty well how cool WB is. Where else can you slam people for sleeping on the ground in one thread, comment on the stupidity of thru-hikers on another, and then in the same day, claim that Hillary C***-ton is a babe?
Don't forget to forget your dog on your hike. A certain WB-er may kill it on general principal. Where is that old coot now anyway? :D
Having been kicked off WF's site so many times I don't have any email addresses left to sign up again, I'd say I know pretty well how cool WB is. Where else can you slam people for sleeping on the ground in one thread, comment on the stupidity of thru-hikers on another, and then in the same day, claim that Hillary C***-ton is a babe?
Don't forget to forget your dog on your hike. A certain WB-er may kill it on general principal. Where is that old coot now anyway? :D
Alright do I have to step in here with my IRON FIST. Just kidding.
max patch
05-12-2006, 09:52
I agree that they're very helpful - didn't mean to imply otherwise. But I don't like to subscribe to emails that fill up my inbox, so I read stuff on the webpages (BGT, hammockcamping, etc). The PCT-L one was a little more cumbersome than even the Yahoo groups...I had to click on every single post even if it was just a "me too" reply. On Yahoo, there's a preview of 2-3 lines that lets me know if it's worth clicking on.
Anyway, I'm sure they're very informative...there are just other forums like this one where the people are just as knowledgable but they're easier to use. If I start hiking the PCT or CDT I'm sure I'll look them up.
Jeff, you can always read AT-L from the web page without getting every post as an email here: (click on may archives)
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/at-l/
I agree, I don't want 50 posts a day coming into an email account.
Just Jeff
05-12-2006, 10:11
Hehe - he just deleted one of my posts b/c the url wasn't embedded. I typed it out...just like max's mailman address above. Nevermind that the info is there - I guess it's worthless if it's not in the approved format.
I'm not bothering to repost it.
Hehe - he just deleted one of my posts b/c the url wasn't embedded. I typed it out...just like max's mailman address above. Nevermind that the info is there - I guess it's worthless if it's not in the approved format.
I'm not bothering to repost it.
I know what he is trying to do. He wants the perfect web site that runs the way the url's were designed to be posted and wants to stay on topic and wants it very professional. I wish it was easy to do something like that. But when you also do that you lose some of the personal/friendly feelings you get on a web site. Granted you have to try to keep things on subject. But you also have to let is go a little. If he keeps it up he will be the only one posting on the web site. It sort of reminds me of one other web site we use to talk about.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-12-2006, 11:51
If he keeps it up he will be the only one posting on the web site.Seems he is already well on his way to this state.
Situations like what happened with Jeff are why I don't think his web site is going to fly with the hking community. Successful hikers are people who are willing to try new things readily and who discard things that do not work quickly and move on. My guess is that virtually 100% of serious hikers get sick of 'gentle nudge' after 'gentle nudge' and quit posting on sites like that. The guy will either loosen up or be chatting with a handful of people who drift in, get tired of how things are run & leave and are replaced by a new handful of people who in turn leave after a short time.
Just Jeff
05-12-2006, 17:58
Troll, I agree that it's probably what he's trying to do. As I said above, I like that it's always on topic, but the fact that he'd rather not have the information if it's not in his approved format says a lot about the quality of the forum, IMO.
jasonklass
05-19-2006, 23:45
OK, for all of the "negatives" that have been proffered, how about some of the "positives"? It's always easier to criticize rather than be constructive (especially when a new endeavor is in question). I think the site in question has a lot of advantages over others. I'm not saying this because I'm a moderator there or because I think other forums are "bad"; it's the opposite. I have no personal investment in this site. I do it voluntarily because I believe it's a good venue to share ideas in a better format than I've seen elsewhere. I will still participate in other forums because I see all forums as complimentary; however, I agreed to be a moderator there because I was looking for something different than other forums offered and like the format and mission. For example, has anyone checked out the podcasts: http://practicalbackpacking.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27
I haven't seen such quality podcasts in other forums. I'm really happy that PBF is so progressive and has already attracted so many quality posters. Sure, now it's relatively small and there will be dissent, but a core has already been developed and big names are being brought in that can benefit the entire backpacking community. In my mind, the forum has already proven itself but I predict it will become one of the premier forums in the very near future.
I think the most important thing to keep in mind is what you're looking for. Of you want a forum where anyone can post about anything, then there are plenty of forums for that. If you want a site that stays on target, then the one Reality is trying to create is the one for you. HYOH, PIYOF (post in your own forum).
MedicineMan
05-20-2006, 01:31
and i'll go ahead and say it...its as if he has been taken over mentally by Wingfoot....hmmmm, maybe it is Wingfoot trying to resurrect himself?
Just Jeff
05-20-2006, 10:14
Isn't Wingfoot big on the political rants? (I don't know...I don't spend time on his site.) I haven't seen any political posts on PBF yet. One of the things I like about it, actually. I also like how we can post almost anything here on WB - there's a place for both.
As I said before, I also like that it's not centered on the East Coast.
hikerjohnd
05-20-2006, 11:10
OK, for all of the "negatives" that have been proffered, how about some of the "positives"? It's always easier to criticize rather than be constructive (especially when a new endeavor is in question). I think the site in question has a lot of advantages over others. I'm not saying this because I'm a moderator there or because I think other forums are "bad"; it's the opposite. I have no personal investment in this site. I do it voluntarily because I believe it's a good venue to share ideas in a better format than I've seen elsewhere. I will still participate in other forums because I see all forums as complimentary; however, I agreed to be a moderator there because I was looking for something different than other forums offered and like the format and mission. For example, has anyone checked out the podcasts: http://practicalbackpacking.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27
I haven't seen such quality podcasts in other forums. I'm really happy that PBF is so progressive and has already attracted so many quality posters. Sure, now it's relatively small and there will be dissent, but a core has already been developed and big names are being brought in that can benefit the entire backpacking community. In my mind, the forum has already proven itself but I predict it will become one of the premier forums in the very near future.
I think the most important thing to keep in mind is what you're looking for. Of you want a forum where anyone can post about anything, then there are plenty of forums for that. If you want a site that stays on target, then the one Reality is trying to create is the one for you. HYOH, PIYOF (post in your own forum).
I decided to quote your whole post (and I'm typiing on my phone here so please forgive typos...) to give an example. On PBF this post would have been editeb by a mod (or Reality himself??) and you would have received a friendly reminder if you wish to keep posting, then post your links properly. That kind of control, while possible, comes at a price. Do I want to take the time to make sure my post meets the neatness code the site administrator is looking for? Well, if yes, then I lose the ability to post from my phone as I am now. I can not access the features needed to do hyperlinks as PBF wants. PBF's desire for uniformity therefore limits its members ability to participate.
But you did ask for positives... I agree the lack of politics is appealing, and the wider variety of trails covered makes it more widely appealing. For me,however, I am on the east coast and can choose simply to not read the politically oriented threads on WB.
I certainly hope PBF is a success, but do not think I will be as strong a supporter there as I am here.
Just Jeff
05-20-2006, 20:10
On PBF this post would have been editeb by a mod (or Reality himself??) and you would have received a friendly reminder....
Or deleted altogether, since the format is apparently more important than the information. Am I beating a dead horse? :D
jasonklass
05-21-2006, 10:28
Or deleted altogether, since the format is apparently more important than the information. Am I beating a dead horse? :D
Actually, according to the guidelines it wouldn't be deleted because it is on topic with the post. This thread is about peoples' opinions on a new forum and my post is in response to that, so it's on topic.
I think some arguments here are being based on the assumption that a forum is a place where you can say anything you want. Probably people are used to this because so many forums are not moderated to keep posts on topic. But why does every forum have to be like that? There are already more than enough. Why can't there be an alternative for people who don't want to wade through personal attacks and political rants? To me, that's what PBF offers.
I think the claims that the forum will not last because it wants people to stay on topic are not sound. How long would a political forum like some of the shows on CNN last if they invited a panel of political analysts to discuss the situation in Iraq and the moderator let some of them starting going off on a tangent talking about their favorite cookie recipies? My guess is it would be taken off the air because the job of a moderator is to moderate and keep the discussion on topic.
I'm sure a lot of people like getting into the "my gear can beat up your gear" wars, but others like me don't. I think PBF has done a good job of this so far. It's nice to pacticipate in an online community where my "ignore list" isn't growing day by day that know that the people there are only interested in sharing new insights on gear and backpacking.
That's just my 2 cents. I'm not trying to convince anyone to think the way I do. I'm only stating why I like the new forum. When all is said and done, you can participate in whichever forums you like. That's the beauty of diversity that the net offers.
I still participate in other forums, but every time I visit them and see some immature personal battle, I'm reminded of how much I appreciate the fact that I don't have to put up with that on PBF.
Just Jeff
05-21-2006, 10:45
Actually, according to the guidelines it wouldn't be deleted because it is on topic with the post. This thread is about peoples' opinions on a new forum and my post is in response to that, so it's on topic.
Ok - there was a thread on hiking with kids. I posted a link to a page devoted solely to hiking with kids, but I didn't put it in the proper format. My post was deleted and I got a reminder to follow the rules. Ergo, my conclusion that the format was more important than the info, and my statement here that improperly formatted, on-topic posts may be deleted.
I think some arguments here are being based on the assumption that a forum is a place where you can say anything you want. Probably people are used to this because so many forums are not moderated to keep posts on topic. But why does every forum have to be like that? There are already more than enough. Why can't there be an alternative for people who don't want to wade through personal attacks and political rants? To me, that's what PBF offers.
Agree 100%. I already listed that as a positive.
I think the claims that the forum will not last because it wants people to stay on topic are not sound.
Agree here, too - but I don't think "staying on topic" is the only thing the moderation is about. For example, I posted a question about the site's rules in the PBF Help forum - he didn't like it so he deleted it...then sent me a "how dare you question me and if you don't like it then leave"-type PM. A question about the rules in the Help forum is clearly on-topic in my opinion.
Deleting on-topic posts b/c the format is off is clearly not only about staying on topic.
Secrecy about how many posts you need before you can start a poll or view user profiles is clearly not about staying on topic.
I still participate in other forums, but every time I visit them and see some immature personal battle, I'm reminded of how much I appreciate the fact that I don't have to put up with that on PBF.
Yep - a lot of urinary olympiads here on WB. But I also like being able to talk to my "internet friends" about stuff other than hiking now and then. Both forums have their places (and the many others on the net).
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-21-2006, 20:09
I'm really happy that PBF is so progressive and has already attracted so many quality posters..... I think the claims that the forum will not last because it wants people to stay on topic are not sound.PBF attracted some quality people - most do not participate there now because of the way it is moderated. Attempting to stay on topic is one thing. Micro-managing posters is quite another - and I've experienced and heard enough to believe that is what is happening. The 'friendly reminders' get less and less friendly - and it has just happened to too many people. My opinion - Bernie has shot himself in the foot with this venture and it would take years to repair the damage that already been done.
I haven't seen anyone say that the forum isn't going to last because it kept on topic - the problem has been and continues to be how it is moderated.
I read there less and less as time goes on because so many of the good people have left. I don't like the constant nit-picking 'friendly reminders' so I quit posting there. Had I been causing strife or going way off topic, it would be understandable. But I wasn't - I was posting pretty much the same way I post in this forum - which for all its problems is has far more long-term quality members and far more comprehensive information and readership than PBF will ever have IMO.
max patch
05-21-2006, 23:53
Interesting comment on the PBF Home Page.....
"PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!"
MedicineMan
05-21-2006, 23:58
and i'll bet that most postings will be between the administrator's multiple identities.....this is so wingfoot like,,,,,,did someone confirm it wasnt him?
doesnt matter, for a newbie and casual observer hopping back and forth between the available AT forums there is already a bad taste in the air....reality is that in this country the crushing thumb of censorship is still resisted with a vengeance....that is the major reason that WB flourishes, reason 2 being that this like BJ has stated is THE site for AT information. Period.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-22-2006, 00:29
Interesting comment on the PBF Home Page.....
"PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!"I think he is trying to coax his guests into signing up to bolster his floundering membership numbers. Wolf will be raising mice and Neo will be sleeping in a tent before this guy blocks his forum from any potential members.
Interesting comment on the PBF Home Page.....
"PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!"
I went over to view the site and I could not find this statement. So I can not verify that this is true.
I can verify that all the posts that I made over on that site have been deleted. I posted several and all were on topic and in the proper forum. So I don't know what happened to them. This is not a good practice to do to people and is not going to do anything but spiral the site downhill if it continues.
I wish that web site success, but with what I am hearing I am wondering how long it will last.
max patch
05-22-2006, 21:37
I went over to view the site and I could not find this statement. So I can not verify that this is true.
Its still there.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-22-2006, 21:44
ATTroll, I'm at a loss for words that he deleted your posts when they violated no site rules. Very poor form indeed. My posts are still there - I wish they weren't as I'm embarrassed to have ever been a part of that site.
BTW, the statement mentioned by Max Patch is on the forum index page - the page you get taken to if you click on the site's logo - and you have to be viewing as a guest to see it. Go there and log out - and then go to the page to view it.
Its still there.
PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!
I see it now. It logged me in automatically with cookies. It only displays when your not logged in.
I am not going to talk bad about any other web site. Because WhiteBlaze was also in the same position as this other web site at one time and I am sure people thought the same thing about us.
But if they want to limit there web site to only 246 members then more power to them, but I do not know what have a web site with only 246 members is going to accomplish. If this is the case then there intentions were never to help the public in the first place.
jasonklass
05-22-2006, 22:54
I think he is trying to coax his guests into signing up to bolster his floundering membership numbers. Wolf will be raising mice and Neo will be sleeping in a tent before this guy blocks his forum from any potential members.
Membership is not floundering, it's growing everyday. I'm not sure where you get this from.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-22-2006, 23:02
Jason, would you mind removing my membership and posts?
and i'll bet that most postings will be between the administrator's multiple identities.....this is so wingfoot like,,,,,,did someone confirm it wasnt him?
doesnt matter, for a newbie and casual observer hopping back and forth between the available AT forums there is already a bad taste in the air....reality is that in this country the crushing thumb of censorship is still resisted with a vengeance....that is the major reason that WB flourishes, reason 2 being that this like BJ has stated is THE site for AT information. Period.
Question Authority.
Skidsteer
05-22-2006, 23:18
Membership is not floundering, it's growing everyday. I'm not sure where you get this from.
Jason, would you mind removing my membership and posts?
Ouch. :D
Skids (
[email protected])
"Old age and treachery beats youth and inexperience every time"
(
[email protected])
Kozmic Zian
05-23-2006, 06:47
Don't Say, 'I Told You So'....
See, guys....when I said earlier, 'What Forum'? What I was trying to extoll was the fact that any web-forum like this has to base it's success on how it deals with subscriptors. Now, we've all been through the 'Dregs' of Wingfoots foolery, delt with his cockyness and incredible insecurity. I don't think anyone needs or wants to be 'embarrased' again by that same kind of rudeness. So, by implication and similar association, I simply say, 'Stay On The GoodFoot'....Anyone who needs hiking info, can find all that they need, right here. So, go solicit your 'Forum', elsewhere, I don't need it....or it's apparent lack of dignity. Thank You....KZ@
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-23-2006, 06:59
I'll accept my lashing with wet ramen - I deserve it. I'm still embarrassed - and my posts are all still there. I guess my user name is being held captive. Maybe I could get the Billville pirates to rescue me?
max patch
05-23-2006, 07:52
The message has now been changed.
My guess is that the site is getting a lot of lurkers that the admin is trying to convert to members.
The site did a similar thing when it was new (and under different management). While WB never claimed that membership would possibly be frozen, the ability to read posts was given only to members for a while. Unregistered members -- lurkers -- could only see the home page. Again, this was probably done to convert lurkers to members.
I thought I was the only person that felt that way about wingfoot.
I became interested in the trail years ago and went to his website and joined. The first thing I notice were political comments on the home page. I questioned this and asked about it being a forum on the appalachian trail. He quickly informed me that he could put whatever he wanted on it. I visited the site again after GW's reelection and he had a picture of the US flag upside down. Being a retired Marine, this upset me greatly (it freaking pissed me off). I sent an email and told him how I felt (in detail) and have not returned to his site.
I also purchased one of the dvd's from the ATC store but when I play it, I fast forward through his blah blah blah blah. At least now I know what he looks like. And if I ever see him, well he will get a piece of my mind. Even though I don't have much to spare.
I feel better now, knowing that I am not the only one.
SGT Rock
05-23-2006, 08:46
The message has now been changed.
My guess is that the site is getting a lot of lurkers that the admin is trying to convert to members.
The site did a similar thing when it was new (and under different management). While WB never claimed that membership would possibly be frozen, the ability to read posts was given only to members for a while. Unregistered members -- lurkers -- could only see the home page. Again, this was probably done to convert lurkers to members.
Naw, it was more a fact of guys new to the software not knowing how the settings worked. It has always been our philosophy that anyone should be able to read content membership or not. BUT, with that said, there are now some forums here that require a membership because of their off topic nature, content about other trails, or sensitive subjects that sometimes offend people.
There have been times when someone has posted an invitation for others that were lurking to join up, but we have never intentionally made membership mandatory in order to drive up membership numbers. Last time I remember that happening it wasn't even Troll or I that started that thread - it was a member and regular poster.
TN_Hiker
05-23-2006, 08:51
Wolf will be raising mice and Neo will be sleeping in a tent before this guy blocks his forum from any potential members.
It doesn't matter who you are.....that is funny..rofl
max patch
05-23-2006, 09:33
No Rock, this was before you and Troll ran the site. Easyhiker made the posts unavailable to non members for a while. It was intentional.
SGT Rock
05-23-2006, 09:36
My guess is that the site is getting a lot of lurkers that the admin is trying to convert to members.
The site did a similar thing when it was new (and under different management). While WB never claimed that membership would possibly be frozen, the ability to read posts was given only to members for a while. Unregistered members -- lurkers -- could only see the home page. Again, this was probably done to convert lurkers to members.
Naw, it was more a fact of guys new to the software not knowing how the settings worked. It has always been our philosophy that anyone should be able to read content membership or not. BUT, with that said, there are now some forums here that require a membership because of their off topic nature, content about other trails, or sensitive subjects that sometimes offend people.
There have been times when someone has posted an invitation for others that were lurking to join up, but we have never intentionally made membership mandatory in order to drive up membership numbers. Last time I remember that happening it wasn't even Troll or I that started that thread - it was a member and regular poster.
I take that back now that I think about it. I think the former admin did do something like that at one time. My bad.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-23-2006, 22:24
PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!Blocking guests from viewing is a fairly common practice to force those who wish to read to register to make it appear a forum has more active members than it actually does. The part about limiting registration was just bizarre.
Upfront: I am the cooking section mod on PBF.
There are forums for every kind of thing once can imagine...and for me PBF offers something that others don't (and I belong to a ton of forums). I am a gentle moderator in my section. I have only removed a couple posts, and they were aggressive ones, that were attacks on members. Sure, I have changed some links for people (did coding, otherwise nothing else was changed in the post). That is all I do.
I have seen too many forums where there is no moderating at all. Our local forum in WA state is like that. Name calling, baiting , cussing, etc.
For anyone who hangs out on the BP.com forums, you all know how off topic that place is....and hey, if I want to be off topic, I go there. Like if I want to ramble on about how my key fob opened up the wrong truck. ;)
But, if you want to talk gear, hiking and backpacking, then PBF is good for that. And come say hi to me and talk trail food, recipes and ideas.
PS: As for the gear section..it requires approval for postings at first. Why? To keep down EBay scammers and plain out and out scamming. For instance, the first time I posted a gear item, I had to wait to be approved. Now I don't. Time is what approves that (ie..sticking around and doing posting). That is a good thing IMO.
Alligator
05-24-2006, 17:53
What law would someone be breaking if they did this?
"All registration information must be completed truthfully and accurately. It is unlawful to gain access to this forum using ficticious information. Failure to supply the correct information may result in immediate IP/account banning and/or further action as the situation warrants."
I'm just curious. There's a lot of law breaking going on here in the internet. The gov't could make some money.
It is there, I believe to cut down on trolls. We had an issue with a person logging in under a number of names and causing issues. But then again, who am I to quess. That is my take, and nothing more.
I despise trolls. And the weenies who use them because they think they can hide behind a fake name. I have been cyber stalked by a person who felt they could hide behind many names and fake emails. well, it isn't that hard to track people down.
It is nice when people are open and not hiding behind a monitor. Simply put, that is what I like about PBF-a good portion of the people who use it are people I have either met in person, talked with on the phone or had email talks-people who love backpacking as much as I do :) Not just someone on a forum who could be a 50 year old guy who has never hiked, or a 15 year old boy getting his jollies.
Skidsteer
05-24-2006, 19:25
It is nice when people are open and not hiding behind a monitor. Simply put, that is what I like about PBF-a good portion of the people who use it are people I have either met in person, talked with on the phone or had email talks-people who love backpacking as much as I do :) Not just someone on a forum who could be a 50 year old guy who has never hiked, or a 15 year old boy getting his jollies.
Which is exactly why I joined. In order to read through the user profiles, sift through the chaff and then decide whether to post and participate.
No dice. You must post and be 'approved' before being allowed to see the type of folks you're talking with.
Too much trouble for my Libertarian mind to deal with.
hummmm based on this last little piece of info I don't think I'll even go there as a guest - people have to earn MY trust before they ever find out my real name.
Just Jeff
05-24-2006, 19:38
...It is unlawful to gain access to this forum using ficticious information...
If I had to guess, I'd say a law is out there that may be interpreted to support something like this, but I think it would be tough to prove damages for any civil suit, and probably wouldn't get taken by prosecution for a criminal suit. But who am I to know? Maybe someone's already in jail for pretending to be a real internet hiker.
It probably has at least some basis, as he made it abundantly clear in one of my gentle nudges that he's a big CEO of an international corporation who has regular contact with lots of lawyers. I'm serious.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-24-2006, 20:12
All registration information must be completed truthfully and accurately. It is unlawful to gain access to this forum using fictitious information. Failure to supply the correct information may result in immediate IP/account banning and/or further action as the situation warrants.Wording mentioning the actions that can get an account or IP banned is fairly standard on BB sites so people have prior notice they can be banned. As Sanbar notes the wording is there to discourage trolls.
Who knows what this guy was thinking with this wording about it being unlawful to register with an assumed name or info. It is not unlawful to register under an assumed name on a public BB site unless it is done to commit a crime like pretending to be someone else to defraud others, to harass someone anonymously, etc.
I agree with Sanbar that small intimate forums where you know most everyone can be nice. Given the way things are being run at PBF, it will likely stay small and personal. Perhaps this is a win-win situation.
FD, that is why I like it ;) It is personal feeling. And it isn't for everyone. The forum isn't trying to make everyone happy. There will be people who don't like that there is heavy moderation, or that you have to stick around to get full access. But for me, I am happy with that.
Lol...not like I can hide who I am. My name is plastered all over the internet.
See, even this guy has my name in his hands at Trail Days last weekend:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a308/NWHikergirl/traildays.jpg
(that is Tin Man at AGG btw....he sells my book)
max patch
05-24-2006, 21:39
The new site is sounding better and better.
I bet if LW posted about "niggas" or "coon hunting" over at PBF the posts would be deleted immediately.
As they should be.
Alligator
05-24-2006, 22:40
If I had to guess, I'd say a law is out there that may be interpreted to support something like this, but I think it would be tough to prove damages for any civil suit, and probably wouldn't get taken by prosecution for a criminal suit. But who am I to know? Maybe someone's already in jail for pretending to be a real internet hiker.
It probably has at least some basis, as he made it abundantly clear in one of my gentle nudges that he's a big CEO of an international corporation who has regular contact with lots of lawyers. I'm serious.
I think it's a BS statement. I think every admin would utilize said law given the opportunity to bust trolls.
What I don't like is not knowing the rules before signing up. The site asks for your date of birth, to the year, before the rules are even presented. Then it says presenting ficticious information is unlawful. I don't give my birthdate out over the net, dumb, dumb, dumb.
P.S. Troll and Rock, that's not my DOB. Please don't prosecute me. Heh-hee.
Alligator
05-24-2006, 23:06
So who's the admin?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-24-2006, 23:43
So who's the admin?The guy in the post below - not sure what happened to my link. I previewed my post and checked the link :eek:
(http://www.berniewilt.com/blog/)
Just Jeff
05-24-2006, 23:52
When I click on that link (and the one below), I go to Fred Wilt's Track and Field Hall of Fame page. Fred died in 1994, apparently. However, if I type in the URL below instead of clicking on it, I go to the right place. Wierd.
http://www.berniewilt.com
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-24-2006, 23:58
Your link is now going to the track and field site. I think this guy has his site set to forward hits from this site to that URL. Copy the link and go to your search engine page - and search for it. It goes to the right page then. This guy is a real piece of work.
Just Jeff
05-25-2006, 00:07
If you just C&P it into your address bar it'll go to the right place.
The new site is sounding better and better.
I bet if ****** posted about "********" or "*******" over at PBF the posts would be deleted immediately.
As they should be.This post reminds me of Beavis and Butthead. "Huh huh. He said anus."
If the words offend you, why do you keep posting and quoting them?
Sarbar
I like the new forum and I can understand why he is doing what he does. But what I would like to see is a PM or email sent to the person when he deletes there post on the site so that we know why. I have never posted off topic or done anything wrong but all my post have been deleted and I have no reason why it was done.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-25-2006, 00:54
In fairness to LW - the reference to "niggas" was part of an analogy. One of the ladies in the female form called us (including herself) "broads" LW questioned the PC of the term. I explained girls can call other girls that, but the guys shouldn't try it. He made the analogy that it was like blacks calling each other 'niggas'. We all know this happens frequently and it does not appear to be taken as a racial epitaph so I'm guessing that the meaning changes in that context just as it does when another woman refers to a group of women including herself as "broads".
The 'coon hunting' reference was made by Lobster - not LW - and we all know Lobster lives too push people's buttons. I had to take him off ignore to see his post re: "coon hunting". He could be discussing hunting raccoons, but the post does leave room for doubt. In east TN, a "coon hunter" is slang for a rowdy redneck - the kind that hangs out in country bars, spits tabacky, and fights a lot.
Skidsteer
06-20-2006, 21:57
I logged into PBF today. I should say: I tried to log in. It seems my user name and password are no longer "valid".
Have any of you other outspoken PBF critics had the same experience? Or am I just inventing a conspiracy? :D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-20-2006, 22:04
I'd forgotten all about that place. It isn't a good enough source of info to put up the BS from the owner IMO.
DawnTreader
06-20-2006, 22:05
Its another BP forum...Dosn't hold a candle to white blaze...
The Gear section seems more like a tribute to Brian Frankle..
I own a ULA pack, but these guys are obsessed with talking ULA
Amigi'sLastStand
06-21-2006, 00:10
Ok, I just joined. I listened to three pod casts. Sqeeky's was very interesting. Listening to the LNT guy, well I'd rather watch paint dry. And the "survival expert". I'd like to meet him. Four weeks out with only a knife. See who wins. That's all I have to say about that.
Saw some familiar names. Cool.
Very new, and very inexperienced members. Let's get em and teach em something.
Does anyone feel this way:
We give each other advice about products, things we use and the way we do things, but does anyone get the impression of "product placement" or forum ads on this site? I got the feeling it is very commercial. Anyone else get that feeling? Threads seemed to have, "No, dont use that, go here and buy this" or "I just got back and just love my new ABC Product. It worked great! I dont know how I ever lived without it. You need to get one too!"
Clark Fork
06-21-2006, 01:22
I logged into PBF today. I should say: I tried to log in. It seems my user name and password are no longer "valid".
Have any of you other outspoken PBF critics had the same experience? Or am I just inventing a conspiracy? :D
I spoke up on this thread. I am not been back since I had my tantrum about "Gentle Nudges." Upon learning of your situation, I checked and I am still signed up so no conspiracy as far as I am concerned. Still firm on not returning. Too many other good sources of info and I get enough "gentle nudges" on the home front....
Best Regards,
Clark Fork
Just Jeff
06-21-2006, 02:46
I'm still signed up. I don't necessarily get the feeling of "product placement" but I'm suspicious of the many requests for "I love PBF" emails and phone calls. If people love a place, there's no need to solicit compliments from the users (see WB - plenty of unsolicited testimonials here). Dunno if it's insecurity, a future business deal, or what.
I've noticed that a lot of threads appear on PBF a day or two after they become active here on WB. Other forums, too, but mostly from WB. Something to talk about, I guess.
I still like that it's not geared to a specific location, though...that's mainly what keeps me checking in there.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-21-2006, 07:17
..... but I'm suspicious of the many requests for "I love PBF" emails and phone calls. If people love a place, there's no need to solicit compliments from the users... Dunno if it's insecurity, a future business deal, or what.
I've noticed that a lot of threads appear on PBF a day or two after they become active here on WB. Other forums, too, but mostly from WB. Something to talk about, I guess. If Bernie has sunk to soliciting testimonials on a regular basis and filching material from other forums, his forum is on its way down the tubes and he knows it. Sad - It had the potential to be a decent place with the proper leadership.
I still like that it's not geared to a specific location, though...that's mainly what keeps me checking in there.I'll be glad when the 'other long trails' forum gets going here. Jeff, be careful about taking what is said about other trails at PBF as gospel - I caught some glaring inaccuracies in material regarding trails I know well. I didn't correct the errors because I had already realized the site wasn't ever going to be successful. I do hope it stays up for the sake of people like our newlywed Sarbar :) who enjoy the smaller, more intimate environment it provides.
MedicineMan
06-21-2006, 07:18
by that you mean the Appalachian Trail?
Just Jeff
06-21-2006, 11:45
Well, the East coast in general, but yeah. WB is great, but I move around so much that I'm also interested in other environments. Not much about desert or high altitude hiking on WB. (Not that I've seen much of that on PBF yet, either.) I wish the PCT board would move to this software.
Dino, it wasn't him copying the threads...I just noticed several threads started by other users that, coincidentally, were very similar to threads here. Not the same user crossposting so I can't say it was "copying," but a handful over a week or so, all trailing WB by about the time it takes to become active (about a day or two)...hrm...
But like I said, I haven't given up on it yet...there's still some value there, IMO.
I:banana I
Turk - The Canuk
"Optimism is a defense for people that can't cope with
reality." - my own theory.
I applied the above theory to my length of time at PBP. While there, I contributed 82 posts and 20 photos.
I was Optimistic that things would change for the better while trying to cope with "REALITY" (the name of PBP's Administrator)
At the end of my stay I adopted the policy that is held dearly by "REALITY". That policy is this:
The PBF Administrator and Moderators reserve the right to remove any posts or threads - at any time for any reason - without explanation.
I adopted it in protest to His and his Moderators tactics.
In silent protest I removed my photos without giving reason or explanation. It is said that " a photo is worth a thousand words" so I figure my 20 photos is worth 20 thousand words. It was my way of editing/deleting 20,000 words in protest.
As time permits, I'll make some interesting posts into this thread concerning my time at PBP
Zelph
Amigi'sLastStand
06-21-2006, 23:33
Yeah, sort of like trying to have a discussion with Shaun Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.
**Puke***Ralph**Gag***
Amigi'sLastStand
06-21-2006, 23:41
Jason, would you mind removing my membership and posts?
I second that.
Why when I click on one of the PBF links in this thread do I get redirected to the WB homepage?
If I hover my cusor over the link, it still shows a PBF url...
Why when I click on one of the PBF links in this thread do I get redirected to the WB homepage?
If I hover my cusor over the link, it still shows a PBF url...
I suspect the PBF person is redirecting anything that links to his site BACK to the originating site. Or at least for WB links.
Has been mentioned on another thread as well.
Why is the admin doing that? Coulnd't tell ya...
I've only checked out the site briefly. Did not think it was good or bad..but I already spend enough time on the XX-L lists and this one! :D
I've only checked out the site briefly. Did not think it was good or bad..but I already spend enough time on the XX-L lists and this one! :D
Ha... I know what you mean. :D I'm listening to Karen Bergers Podcast. I had to go through Google to get there! Even WF isn't as restricting as those guys...
Even WF isn't as restricting as those guys...
So I heard. I don't use WF's site as well for similar reasons.
I jump through enough hoops to pay the bills. Don't need to do it for something I love (the outdoors and sharing info about it!)
YMMV.
max patch
01-09-2007, 14:01
The last thing the admin of the PB site wants are threads such as the one of lawyer issues with the threats that were made therein and like the one dedicated to MS so he threw up a roadblock to attempt to keep the WB riff raff out.
Not all WB members.
Just the riff raff.
The last thing the admin of the PB site wants are t
I can understand that. OTOH, seems as if his site is slowly dying as well. HEavy restrictions can mean limited discussion.
As I said, I ony briefly checked it out. Found the discussions and forums rather...slow and not very dynamic.
And, if there are that many hurdles to even checking out his site, well, I'd rather not go to his corner of cyberspace.
YMMV.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-09-2007, 14:23
Max, are you saying ATTroll is riff-raff? Zelph / Ingognito is riff-raff? Just Jeff is riff-raff?
Some of the people PB ran off were not riff-raff in any since of the term. IMO, the owner is more than just a protective admin - he is a control freak.
max patch
01-09-2007, 15:59
Max, are you saying ATTroll is riff-raff? Zelph / Ingognito is riff-raff? Just Jeff is riff-raff?
Some of the people PB ran off were not riff-raff in any since of the term. IMO, the owner is more than just a protective admin - he is a control freak.
NO. Thats not what I meant. I've perused the site, not a member, so I don't know who was run off.
What I MEANT was that, as you said, he is a control freak. He also wants threads to stay on topic. Remember the "gentle nudges."
He would not want a 6,000 post thread on MS on his site.
He would not want the closed - but never to be forgotten - lawyer thread on his site. There were things said on that thread that were totally inappropriate. Had that thread happened on PB folks would have been banned for life.
What I like most about PBF is how everything all the topics stay focused. Its easy to find the information you need and ask any questions you want. You don't need to feel embarassed if you ask what seems like a very 'newbie' question or be afraid of being ridiculed. I've been on some forums where that is the case. Plus you don't have to sort through a myriad of OT posts to find what you want.
I've had my fair share of posts deleted there as well. I've only gotten a PM explanation once, but after thinking about what was in my other posts I realize why they were. I don't really mind, because if I really want to give the person the information that was deleted I can just PM them. I've done that on numerous occasions when I wanted to ask a particular person a question and not the whole community.
I think Reality has relaxed a little bit since he started. We're up to 1,000 members, though certainly not all of them are active, and nearly 13,000 posts. I know that pales in comparison to sites like this, but almost all of the posts contain somekind of helpful information.
While I don't mind the more strict nature of PBF there are times that I like to go a little off topic and be goofy sometimes. That's where places like this, TLB, and BPL come in. I don't feel like I should limit myself to one forum and only post there, I would miss out on a lot of information (and entertainment) that way.
I'm not saying PBF is for everyone. There are some people that need a little more freedom than it provides and there are plenty of other places for that. But for those of you who haven't checked it out due to the content of this thread, I would encourage you to do so now. There is a whole wealth of information on not just the forums, but also the podcasts.
I felt a little bad reading this and seeing sarbar and jasonklass as the only defenders of PBF and thought I would offer my opinion.
Adam
Gray Blazer
01-09-2007, 17:20
The last thing the admin of the PB site wants are threads such as the one of lawyer issues with the threats that were made therein and like the one dedicated to MS so he threw up a roadblock to attempt to keep the WB riff raff out.
Not all WB members.
Just the riff raff.I might as well not even try. WB is the only forum I belong to.
Whiteblaze is in a good phase right now, but it was full of disension a month ago. Practicalbackpacking.com is always in a good frame of mind.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-09-2007, 20:44
I'm not sure I would call what goes on at PB 'a good frame of mind'. Back when I tried to post there it felt more like trying to tap dance in a mine field than having a discussion with fellow backpackers. I finally just threw up my hands and left.
If you all you want is somewhat questionable BP info from many who are obvious not very experienced backpackers served up an artificial environment and you don't mind having posts removed or gentle nudges from a control freak, PB is your kind of place.
If you want to discuss backpacking with the people with thousands of miles of real backpacking experience and want to really get to know them (warts and all), come here. It's really a pretty simple choice.
a number of years ago I tolerated Trailplace cause it seemed to have reasonable information but after a while I got tired of the admins way of controlling his site and I left. When I hear that PB is run by another individual exercising remarkable control over his site I think back to Trailplace and decide that I don't even want to look - life is too short to have to put up with individuals like the admin of Trailplace and the admin of PracticalBackpacking when there are other choices available.
Jack Tarlin
01-09-2007, 20:53
I dunno about you guys but I simply don't have time to check a whole bunch of hiking forums each day.
I also have a beef with Forums that are under-administered (like Trailjournals) as well as ones that are OVER administered (Trailplace, and perhaps this new one as well).
I just don't have time for the chicken**** that you get from a lot of other sites.
Do we have problems on WB from time to time?
Yup.
Are there people here I could happily do without ?
Absolutely.
But it's still by far the best place on the Internet to exchange information on the A.T. It's the best place to learn new stuff; it's the best place to share with others what you've happened to learn.
Other folks can do what they want, but I have neither the time, the inclination, or most of all, the need, for another hiking website at present.
This one's plenty.
Skidsteer
01-09-2007, 21:03
Dammmn FD, tell us what you really think. :D
FWIW, I pretty much line up with your view of it. It had the potential to be a jam-up homemade gear forum but many really innovative types can't be bothered with that BS. :rolleyes:
The only problem I have with Whiteblaze is that I have never, and don't really plan on, hiking on the AT. For that reason I have all of the topics minimized except for the Gear Forums. I do like the information that is here and its fun reading some of the comments that are made, but sometimes I like a more structured format (I have a bit of an OCD tendency) so I go to PBF.
Since I spend a lot of time on the internet (all of my free time between classes and homework) I have my home page and first 3 quick links on Firefox set to BP forums. Whiteblaze is the third one I check, right behind PBF and BPL.
But of course, HYOH, YMMV, or whatever cool acronym you like to use for do whatever works for you. We all have our own preferences and no one is here to tell you what to do. If you want to check out PBF, go for it. Don't let all the neagative comments here keep you from seeing what's going on over there now. Its not going to cost you anything but a little bit of your time. It has changed quite a bit since you were there Dino, but I can understand your qualms with Reality. There were a few weeks when I considered leaving as well, I too was getting fed up with Reality and his strict policies, but decided to stay and see what happened. Now, PBF is the place for me, most of the time at least.
I like PBF for the friendly atmosphere (its friendly for me at least), BPL for great discussions on UL and SUL backpacking, Whiteblaze for the interesting posts, and TLB because it was the first forum I ever participated in. I still check all of them everyday, dozens of times. There are things that bug me in each of them but I put up with them.
I'll have to admit that the activity on PBF is much slower than it is here. But the forum is still relatively young and still has developing to do before it is as fine tuned as places like Whiteblaze and TLB.
I'm sure I sound like a PBF representative, but I'm just a regular old member that doesn't feel like PBF is getting a fair representation here.
I promise to stop chiming in about 'the wonders of PBF' now. I'm sure my opinions are falling on deaf ears anyway. Everyone at Whiteblaze seems to have found their place on the internet.
Adam
Gray Blazer
01-09-2007, 22:49
The only problem I have with Whiteblaze is that I have never, and don't really plan on, hiking on the AT.
I'm sure my opinions are falling on deaf ears anyway. Everyone at Whiteblaze seems to have found their place on the internet.
AdamEhh......? What's that you say? I hope you get to some time to hike some AT. It's not the Himalayas, but, parts of it are beautiful.
I hope you get to some time to hike some AT. It's not the Himalayas, but, parts of it are beautiful.
I just have no real desire to go to the AT. I live in Missouri, so its a long drive for me to get to it. I'd much rather drive the opposite direction and play around in the Rockies because I love skiing as well as hiking. My girlfriend lives in Penn. so I've driven through the area a few times and it is beautiful, but I prefer the Rockies. I'm also fairly introverted and the AT always kind of seemed like a 'crowded' (relatively speaking of course) place, especially compared to my normal stomping grounds and I really enjoy being alone or in small company when I'm hiking.
That's all just my personal preference though, I'm not slamming the AT by any means. It must be pretty special if so many people use it every year.
Sorry about the 'deaf ears' comment. I guess I could have found a better way to put it. What I meant to say is that the people here are very loyal to Whiteblaze. I didn't mean anything derogatory by it.
Adam
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-09-2007, 23:20
While this forum is primiarily about the AT, you would be hard pressed to find a trail in America someone here has not hiked. There are several here who have triple crowned (hiked the AT, RCT, CDT).
Adam, if you are limiting yourself to the gear forum, you are missing a lot of information that could really help you in hiking the Rockies.
I dunno about you guys but I simply don't have time to check a whole bunch of hiking forums each day.
I also have a beef with Forums that are under-administered (like Trailjournals) as well as ones that are OVER administered (Trailplace, and perhaps this new one as well).
I just don't have time for the chicken**** that you get from a lot of other sites.
Do we have problems on WB from time to time?
Yup.
Are there people here I could happily do without ?
Absolutely.
But it's still by far the best place on the Internet to exchange information on the A.T. It's the best place to learn new stuff; it's the best place to share with others what you've happened to learn.
Other folks can do what they want, but I have neither the time, the inclination, or most of all, the need, for another hiking website at present.
This one's plenty.
I agree and at my age, I hate change, and as I stated on a previous thread, this place has increased from membership under sub 500 since my time, and it is home and until it changes, it will continue to BE HOME!!!
The members of this site are true doers, and people whom have walked the walk! I will still listen to the people whom have achieved in our love of the outdoors!!!
It's not difficult to find the pertinent information, most of the threads answer their own questions in the first page or two. After that the anecdotes and what not start to take over cuz most of the relevant stuff has already been said. The banter just keeps certain threads bouncing to to the top of the list. Some people thrive on the banter, others seem to abhor it. But if they stick to the first coupla pages of any given thread they can avoid most of it. Whiteblaze has built up a considerable archive of both relevant information and banter over the years...what else do you expect? Lot's of wisdom here if you want to search for it, and all the basics in the top drawer nice and neat if you don't want to sift for those nuggets. Whiteblaze is the only true community site for hikers. Especially for the special breed of hiker trash/freaks/geeks that have come to nest here.
Gray Blazer
01-10-2007, 08:42
I just have no real desire to go to the AT. I live in Missouri, so its a long drive for me to get to it. I'd much rather drive the opposite direction and play around in the Rockies
Sorry about the 'deaf ears' comment. I guess I could have found a better way to put it. What I meant to say is that the people here are very loyal to Whiteblaze. I didn't mean anything derogatory by it.
AdamI love all mountains. I live in FL and the AT at TN/NC and GA is the closest to me here in FL. You have offended noone. I love this site. People here are mature enough to know there's a life out there. We're just enthusiastic (or possibly just slightly interested as in your case, no offense intended) about the AT.
...Dino, it wasn't him copying the threads...I just noticed several threads started by other users that, coincidentally, were very similar to threads here. Not the same user crossposting so I can't say it was "copying," but a handful over a week or so, all trailing WB by about the time it takes to become active (about a day or two)...hrm... ...
Blame me for a cross post regarding the "bouncing backpack" topic. I thought since it was non-AT related, it might be of interest to someone who was not on this site but still interested in gear. Since it was basically links to other sites on the internet I didn't think there was any proprietary Whiteblaze/HikingHQ information (and I still don't)!
I'm posting the link here to test if it gets redirected or not (as some are saying): http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1673
Like others, I've received a PM from Reality after he deleted a post I made. Apparently the link was in a format he didn't like. Pissed me off a bit, but I try not to have a thin skin and decided to continue participating using the format he wanted for links.
Visit PBF or not, it is your choice. I'm not here to convince anyone; just wanted to set the record straight.
Pesonally, I visit several sites and feel that the online community is richer when there is a diverse group of opinions (damn, that was a PC statement).
Alligator
01-10-2007, 20:56
I'm posting the link here to test if it gets redirected or not (as some are saying): http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1673
...This link brings me back to the WB homepage. What the frak:D ?
... I'm posting the link here to test if it gets redirected or not (as some are saying): http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1673
...
Well, the above link I posted works for me when I click it, so either the redirect has been removed or whatever people were doing before was not exactly working.
BTW, I'm not sure where I read about the bouncing backpack first ... Whiteblaze or HikingHQ. Both are great sites and even though I don't post much I appreciate the information available on them. I'm not actively planning an AT hike (maybe someday), and since I can use the search function I do so before asking questions ... both sites are so rich in information that I rarely need to post questions.
This link brings me back to the WB homepage. What the frak:D ?
Hey Alligator, you clicked on that before I could type my second note! Fast mouse work!
Don't know what's up ... it DOES work for me. I'm using Firefox ... what browser are you using?
Alligator
01-10-2007, 21:00
Hey Alligator, you clicked on that before I could type my second note! Fast mouse work!
Don't know what's up ... it DOES work for me. I'm using Firefox ... what browser are you using?Internet Explorer.
I tried IE6 and it goes to the post just fine for me. I even logged out of PBF (and got a message that coookies were cleared) ... and it still works for me.
The funny thing is that once I was logged out, only the first few lines of the post show up, then it has the line referenced earlier in this thread:
" NOTE: The remainder of this post can be read by PBF members. For FREE membership click here"
Wacky stuff. Maybe try a right click and try "open in new window"?
Well, it doesn't have anything to do with your use of an inferior browser :D. Just kidding. I use Firefox and it just kicked me back to the WB homepage too. Reality has this thing about not linking to articles or discussions on other forums, so it probably goes the other way too. He probably doesn't want people from other forums linking to stuff on his site. PBF isn't perfect by any means and Reality does have some irrational tendecncies sometimes.
Adam
Like others, I've received a PM from Reality after he deleted a post I made. Apparently the link was in a format he didn't like. Pissed me off a bit, I can understand being annoyed at that. What is more important, the link or the format of the link?
Well, it doesn't have anything to do with your use of an inferior browser :D. Just kidding. I use Firefox and it just kicked me back to the WB homepage too. Reality has this thing about not linking to articles or discussions on other forums, so it probably goes the other way too. He probably doesn't want people from other forums linking to stuff on his site. PBF isn't perfect by any means and Reality does have some irrational tendecncies sometimes.
Adam
If it were blocked, why is the link working for me in IE6 & Firefox? (Not that I'm disagreeing about the irrational tendencies ...)
Maybe he has it blocked unless certain IPs from members click on it ... that sounds too conspiracy theory!
I can understand being annoyed at that. What is more important, the link or the format of the link?
The link!
I went to the bother of doing a search and post what I thought was a helpful note with a link of where to buy the item under discussion ... and the whole post was deleted.
Just decided not to take it personally ... why would I let a stranger's opinion about how to post links on a forum ruin my day? Of course, he only deleted one of my posts, maybe I would take it personally if he got rid of them all!
Life's too short.
If it were blocked, why is the link working for me in IE6 & Firefox?
Why would Reality like you better than me? I've contributed so much over there and this is the thanks I get! :D:D:D
PBF (http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/)
Hmm... when I try clicking the link I just posted it kicks me back to WB. Maybe you found a loop hole, a 'weak point in the armor' of PBF if you will :). I thought maybe the person that posted the link might be the only person that could use it, but that's not the case.
Very strange indeed.
Adam
PS- I'm not actually upset, just playing.
Skidsteer
01-10-2007, 21:50
It redirects me to WB Home. I'm using IE.
I'm thinking that the person that posts the link is somehow excepted from the re-direct?:-?
Why would Reality like you better than me? I've contributed so much over there and this is the thanks I get! :D:D:D
PBF (http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/)
Hmm... when I try clicking the link I just posted it kicks me back to WB. Maybe you found a loop hole, a 'weak point in the armor' of PBF if you will :). I thought maybe the person that posted the link might be the only person that could use it, but that's not the case.
Very strange indeed.
Way strange! The link takes me to PBF! I don't know what's going on, but I see now why people are feeling persecuted.
PS- I'm not actually upset, just playing.
LOL!
Since there doesn't seem to be a reliable way to link to PBF, I thought those here may want to see this little tidbit from a post labeled "PBF Tip: Using Links in Posts"
" ... Please do not point (provide links) to discussions that are located off-site, rather recreate the discussion here. PBF handles almost all backpacking related discussions. That's what PBF is here for. Any links to (or discussion of) content that requires membership (e.g. paid) to even view the information is strictly prohibited."
So he is saying don't point to postings on other forums ... sounds fair to me, even if I don't like how he phrases it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-10-2007, 22:27
He isn't blocking IP's. I can't click a link here and go to PBF, but I can right click, copy the link and paste it into another window and go right to it. Man, that forum really is slow now. I'd heard it was dying... guess it is true.
He isn't blocking IP's. I can't click a link here and go to PBF, but I can right click, copy the link and paste it into another window and go right to it. Man, that forum really is slow now. I'd heard it was dying... guess it is true.
When I really started watching the forum there was a core group of people who posted everything. I'm talking like 5 or 6 poeple. Its really apparent how slow it was when you go back and look at the older posts. Now, there seems to be a lot more people, IMO of course, that participate on a regular basis. I haven't noticed a drop in participation, so I don't think its dying, rather I see it as growing slowly.
I'm sure the forum seems very slow to you Dino, since you spend your time here. There have been more posts in this discussion today than there have been on all of PBF in the past couple of days so I can see why you might make the assumption it is dying.
I've made some friends through PBF, and even gained a hiking partner in my area, so I still see it as a place worth spending some of my time.
We all have different preferences in everything, I hate every vegetable outside of potatoes and corn and some people only eat vegetables. The same applies for the forums we participate in. I don't know where you heard the PBF was dying from Dino, but maybe I just don't read the right threads or know the right people. You might also just want PBF to die so badly that all you see is a white hot rage when we talk about, and that's ok too :p.
Adam
Skidsteer
01-10-2007, 22:48
It's about control freaks, Adam.
Some of us just don't play that. :cool:
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-10-2007, 23:03
I don't know where you heard the PBF was dying from Dino, but maybe I just don't read the right threads or know the right people. You might also just want PBF to die so badly that all you see is a white hot rage when we talk about, and that's ok too :p.No white hot rage... not even anger... I see Reality and PB as wretched oddities rather than things that evoke anger.
PB appears to be slower now than when I left many months ago so I certainly don't see it as a growing forum or even a stagnant forum. It looks to me to be on its way down. But as you say HYOH, YMMV or whatever the cute saying is for the day.
BTW, I didn't hear about PB dying in this forum at all - it was several other backpacking forums.
I see where you're coming from Skidsteer, but I'm not going to let one member keep me from visting a forum. In this case that member happens to be the admin of the site :).
There was one guy over on BPL that had me pulling my hair out though, but I think he was 'taken care of.'
Adam
He checking a specific "referrer", in this case - whiteblaze.net. Some of you can go to the site from here because your browser or firewall or AV program is blocking (not sending) the "referrer" in the request header.
I tried IE6 and it goes to the post just fine for me.
~~~
Because you had visited the page in question, prior to posting the link on WB, the page was cached. The link works for you, because the page is retrieved from the cache, and the request never makes it as far as the redirect code.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-11-2007, 09:13
Cheif is right - I changed my firewall setting to not supply the referrer and it went straight to the site.
I have to go with the Frolicking Dino on this. I don't post very often on forums. When I do, I do so in a respectful manner and with discussion/information I feel is important or helpful. I have had posts deleted on PBF for no obvious reasons. The latest deleted post was a suggestion to go to another forum/website for information--I found it interesting that a mod posting in the same thread did the same thing and that post WASN'T deleted.
I won't go back. It's a shame as I initially liked the direction the forum was going but now there is simply too much of a Big Brother attitude for me.
Jester2000
01-14-2007, 16:14
The new site is sounding better and better.
I bet if LW posted about "niggas" or "coon hunting" over at PBF the posts would be deleted immediately.
As they should be.
Probably. But then again, that bit of slander would also be removed. As would your reply to this (that you said "if," and in so doing you had not suggested that he actually HAD posted about those subjects). Also deleted would be my reply that you knew what you were doing, and that you intentionally took his comments out of context in one case, and completely lied about the second, hoping that no one else had the time or interest in looking up the threads.
Then we'd both get "gentle reminders." Which would be a great name for a backup band. "Lone Wolf and the Gentle Reminders."
Maybe I could get the Billville pirates to rescue me?
Do you really think the Billville pirates are organized enough to mount a rescue operation?
HikeLite
01-23-2007, 14:26
I don't like it.
1. The geek that runs it will delete and alter your post if you post a link.
2. He seems way anal.
3. Now the forum is no longer public...is he wingfoot in disguise?
In short, I think it sux.
I stumbled across this new backpacking forum. He doesn't say much of anything that I can see about why he started it, or what's different about it.
Anyone got any ideas, or opinions on it?
http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/index.php
HikeLite
01-23-2007, 14:29
P.S. Watch how when someone responds to his thread and doesn't answer exactly how he wants, he is condescending. Yipes.
Pacific Tortuga
01-23-2007, 14:39
I like it and most all hiking forums. It has the western state trails lowdown, and two gear makers I like and own, post often. I have had no problems but then I'm pretty easy going and try following the forum rules. The only thing I do not like is being reminded on the top of the page that I have not posted for awhile.
Very minor considering the whole picture and its about ........... Hiking. :cool:
max patch
01-23-2007, 14:40
3. Now the forum is no longer public...is he wingfoot in disguise?
This site did the same thing in its early days. Non members could read but not post. Then for a period of time non members could not read without registering. Don't know the reason behind this; suspect it was done to increase the membership roles. This is when WB was under different management.
HikeLite
01-23-2007, 14:43
Wonder when the podcasts will be blocked...
HikeLite
01-23-2007, 14:50
Wonder what screen name he is posting under to defend his failing website.
I wish I could edit my posts on this site so I didn't have to reply so much with more of my bs.
Wonder what screen name he is posting under to defend his failing website.
I wish I could edit my posts on this site so I didn't have to reply so much with more of my bs.
send $10 to ATTroll for the edit button or learn to review posts before hitting submit
I like the site. The moderators are friendly. I understand the need for a strict rules. I used to run a forum for artists and talk about egos and egg shells. I've had posts edited before and have questioned the moderators and had friendly repsonses explaining.
LostInSpace
04-01-2007, 21:44
I guess I have been blacklisted! My IP address has been blocked by PBF. I tried logging repetatively in with an ID and password that I know was previously valid. Yeah, I kept on trying past the 5 login attempt limit. That got me permanently banned.
Not really. My "Wi-Fi access point" has been blocked. This result reflects the owner's networking ignorance. I can connect using any public library, Starbucks, or public Wi-Fi access point, attempt to logon unsucessfully of some number of times, and get all other users blocked as well. PBF blocks the gateway IP address ... not the end user's IP address.
I suppose that if enough people did this PBF could wind up only talking to itself.
Sure, I can still login by going through a different gateway or using an IP hiding proxy. So what's the point of PBF being so childish about limiting the public reading of the babble among a group so limited that there seems to be little new information?
saimyoji
04-01-2007, 22:15
I guess I have been blacklisted! My IP address has been blocked by PBF. I tried logging repetatively in with an ID and password that I know was previously valid. Yeah, I kept on trying past the 5 login attempt limit. That got me permanently banned.
Not really. My "Wi-Fi access point" has been blocked. This result reflects the owner's networking ignorance. I can connect using any public library, Starbucks, or public Wi-Fi access point, attempt to logon unsucessfully of some number of times, and get all other users blocked as well. PBF blocks the gateway IP address ... not the end user's IP address.
I suppose that if enough people did this PBF could wind up only talking to itself.
Sure, I can still login by going through a different gateway or using an IP hiding proxy. So what's the point of PBF being so childish about limiting the public reading of the babble among a group so limited that there seems to be little new information?
Perhaps that is exactly what they want: an exclusive online forum consisting of just people they like. It is their forum, if you don't like it....:rolleyes:
BTW I haven't been on there in months.
Just Jeff
04-08-2007, 09:09
It's probably a glitch - that happened a while ago...whole blocks of IPs were blocked by mistake. A simple email and he fixed the problem.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-08-2007, 17:00
Jeff, that didn't fix the problem I was having, but changing IP's did. If the site had really good material I'd bite the bullet and put up with Bernie's nonsense, but I didn't find PBP all that helpful. It seems to mainly attract wanna-be gear designers who don't have a lot of backpacking experience.
Appalachian Tater
04-10-2007, 07:22
I registered and made one post on that site, answering a question. Within a couple of minutes my registration and post were deleted and my e-mail address blocked from re-registering. The post could not have been offensive to anyone, including the site owner, for any reason I could possibly imagine.
It redirects me to WB Home. I'm using IE.
I'm thinking that the person that posts the link is somehow excepted from the re-direct?:-?
No. The link points to a PHP (server-side) script. The script looks for "whiteblaze.net" as the originating address, and if it finds it, issues a redirect back to whiteblaze.net homepage.
If you cut/paste the link and open it from any other website, it works fine. Clearly the owner of that site is a control freak. If it isn't Wingy, it might as well be.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-10-2007, 08:49
Clearly the owner of that site is a control freak. If it isn't Wingy, it might as well be.I don't think there is much doubt that Bernie 'Reality' Wilt is a control freak and that he has pretty much assured that his site will never be popular with mainstream hikers. Some from that site have said that his goal is to keep the site small and intimate. If this is the case, he is doing an excellent job. If he planned for the site to become a well-visited site populated by experienced hikers so he could sell advertising space, he has shot himself in the foot via his over zealous moderation techniques.
"What I don't like is not knowing the rules before signing up. The site asks for your date of birth, to the year, before the rules are even presented."
Yes. After seeing the reference here, I was interested in the site. The first thing it asks me is my date of birth. Why is this needed? I might be willing to give my age --- exact date is unneeded, and IMO starts the site off on the wrong foot entirely.
I looked round for any sort of information about how the information I would supply would be secured, how much of it would be given to others and in what situations, etc, and couldn't find anything.
Might be a great site, but there's apparantly no way for me to find out (that I find to be acceptable ...).
Brian
"What I don't like is not knowing the rules before signing up. The site asks for your date of birth, to the year, before the rules are even presented."
Yes. After seeing the reference here, I was interested in the site. The first thing it asks me is my date of birth. Why is this needed? I might be willing to give my age --- exact date is unneeded, and IMO starts the site off on the wrong foot entirely.
I looked round for any sort of information about how the information I would supply would be secured, how much of it would be given to others and in what situations, etc, and couldn't find anything.
Might be a great site, but there's apparantly no way for me to find out (that I find to be acceptable ...).
Brian
Yes. After seeing the reference here, I was interested in the site.
Bernie 'Reality' Wilt says Thank You Very Much every time someone makes a reply to this thread. So far 6,470 pair of eyeballs have looked at this thread. 175 have replied to this thread. Bernie loves it.
This thread is what got me interested in his site. I went there, signed up, had some fun, got some good information, got an education, then came here and started having fun here:banana . Before going to Realitys' site I was at a different backpacking site. There I had made over 200 posts before the administrator had ever responded to my stove stuff and even then the response was minimal. Big difference in how administrators intereact with contributing members of the forum.
I like Bernie!!! He stays focused, is a straight shooter, never shoots from the hip, straight forward, tells you where the bears poop in the buckwheat. It's his forum, runs it the way he sees fit. It's the people he's got working for him that need to be groomed. They get a little bit too over anxious in their rolls as "moderators". Little things mean alot, add up and take their toll. I overreacted when I left his site, I deleted all the photos that I had posted there. Did so to make a statement. Oh Well!!!
I visit his site often and learn from those that share their skills and ideas and thats what it's all about.
So, when you post to this thread, Bernie says Thank You.
BrianLe, you went to his site and so have many others. It works for Bernie!!!
Jester2000
04-10-2007, 20:06
So if I've got this right, Bernie likes it when people go to his site and don't sign up?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-10-2007, 20:23
Traffic is traffic regardless of whether they are registered members or not. However, sustained traffic is what makes advertising on a site attractive. To get sustained traffic you have to have something to draw people to the site on a regular and continuing basis. Most feel Wilt’s site falls short in this respect, but a few do like the site.
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This is the information you will find on his front/home page. His site says money all over it. His advertisers like it everytime somebody enters his site. Its all recorded as traffic like FD says.
How you doing Reality, we know you're watching;)
He checks in daily, I heard him just say: Thank You Very Much!!!!!:banana
Maybe if they got rid of that dancing banana the ad hit rates would go up and folks would take the forum seriously?
Maybe if they got rid of that dancing banana the ad hit rates would go up and folks would take the forum seriously?
Oh MY Word!!!!
I don't think soooo. The frolicking banana is the reason I keep going back there.
On second thought there are no bananas there, bummer, maybe thats why I left.
The other backpacking site used to have a frolicking elephant on the main selection page, they got tired of me using it and moved to the back page, bummer.
(insert banana here)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-11-2007, 06:26
Oh MY Word!!!!
I don't think soooo. The frolicking banana is the reason I keep going back there. :banana :banana Copy write infringement. Off with his head! :banana :banana
I stumbled across this new backpacking forum. He doesn't say much of anything that I can see about why he started it, or what's different about it.
Anyone got any ideas, or opinions on it?
http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/index.php
why was LINK removed?
see ya'll in VA Apr 25-May 6
max patch
04-11-2007, 07:47
why was LINK removed?
see ya'll in VA Apr 25-May 6
Can't get to there from a link on this site.
Type the URL in directly.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-11-2007, 08:52
Jaybird, the guy that runs that site has any link coming from this site redicted to the WB home page. I know Zelph believes he enjoys the discussion here, but he certainly does a great job of hiding it if he does. I think most would agree this is a far better site for info, experience and general knowledge. The biggest draws that site had were the discussion of trails other than the AT and podcasts, but this site now has areas for discussing other trails and is getting ready to put up podcasts.
rswanson
04-11-2007, 18:24
Jaybird, the guy that runs that site has any link coming from this site redicted to the WB home page. I know Zelph believes he enjoys the discussion here, but he certainly does a great job of hiding it if he does. I think most would agree this is a far better site for info, experience and general knowledge. The biggest draws that site had were the discussion of trails other than the AT and podcasts, but this site now has areas for discussing other trails and is getting ready to put up podcasts.
Different tools for different jobs. If you're looking for information about gear from specific manufacturers, PB is a good resource. The podcasts are very well done, too. Sure, WB might be a better resource in general but the knowledge amassed here is much greater than most other backpacking/hiking forums. That certainly can't be argued.
Yeah, the guy running it can be a little over the top but that's easy to look past. I can be a little over the top, too, depending on who you ask. I've never had a post deleted or altered and haven't found it too difficult to adhere to the forum's guidelines. I can see other peoples' point about the personal information neccessary to register, and I do wish you didn't need to register and be logged on to read the forum posts. Sometimes I'm on a machine where I don't want to log in.
but this site now has areas for discussing other trails and is getting ready to put up podcasts.
I like that I can discuss other trails on PB. I can't find where I can do that here. Could you enlighten me.
Skidsteer
04-11-2007, 18:53
I like that I can discuss other trails on PB. I can't find where I can do that here. Could you enlighten me.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=421
I like that I can discuss other trails on PB. I can't find where I can do that here. Could you enlighten me.
step 1 - go to UserCP Group Memberships and join the Other Long Trails group
step 2 - click on link Skidsteer gave you
Skidsteer
04-11-2007, 19:31
step 1 - go to UserCP Group Memberships and join the Other Long Trails group
step 2 - click on link Skidsteer gave you
Oops. Thanks HOI, I forgot that little bit of info.
trlhiker
04-11-2007, 20:32
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=421
Not allowed to view link. What's that all about?
And when I tried the other way, it said that I cannot leave this group. What's that all about?
Skidsteer
04-11-2007, 20:46
Not allowed to view link. What's that all about?
And when I tried the other way, it said that I cannot leave this group. What's that all about?
step 1 - go to UserCP Group Memberships and join the Other Long Trails group
step 2 - click on link Skidsteer gave you
I forgot to tell you that you have to join the 'Other Long Trails Group'
Sorry 'bout that.
Slosteppin
04-11-2007, 20:59
I belong to about 20 forums that are directly hiking related, including PB.
I've generally posted there about twice a month. The only thing I find irritating about PB is being reminded that I haven't contributed to the cost.
If you want to get really off topic try the Kampfire forum, started by a person banned from BPL. Almost nothing is off topic and very few people have been banned.
Every forum I've get on has had some kind of problems at some time.
Every forum has its own personality. I see many of the same names on several forums. I have asked questions and gotten good answers from most forums I review. I've also answered a few questions.
Slosteppin
[quote=Slosteppin;351366] The only thing I find If you want to get really off topic try the Kampfire forum, started by a person banned from BPL. Almost nothing is off topic and very few people have been banned.
Can you post the hyperlink to Kampfire. I tried Googleing it with no luck,
Just Jeff
04-13-2007, 17:32
I think it's this one:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kampfire/
I think I've posted this before on this thread but I'm too lazy to go back and look. :D My biggest irritant with PBF is the idea that format is more important than sharing information. Especially comes out with the links. And even when I had the right format, I was politely chastised for providing links to the specific answers to the questions being asked. Apparently it would have been better to retype a portion of the answer instead of linking to another website with the full story and discussion. But what good does it do to complain? Now I just answer those folks' questions in a PM. It's unfortunate that the other folks don't benefit from the knowledge already on the web, but it has led to a few good conversations over the PM. For me, it's about the conversation, sharing info (teaching and learning), etc - it doesn't matter much if it's with one person there or the whole forum.
I check PBF for the hammock threads and rarely scan more than the titles for other threads, but still - I like that it stays on topic. It's hard to keep a forum on topic w/o looking like an arse to the people straying off topic...some folks think that a forum exists for their convenience. Not true - the forum exists for whatever purpose the owner decides. If the owner wants a comfortable place for the users to chat (generally the most important aspect for WB, IMO), that's fine. If the owner wants a place to exchange information ONLY about backpacking, and user comfort or friendliness is secondary...that's fine too. If you don't like it, just don't go.
At HF, I try to keep things generally about hammocking with only a little straying...and even though I've never deleted a single post (except admin stuff like double posts) I still get pushback for trying to keep the hammock forum about hammocks. I don't understand why folks get so worked up over it. I've even discussed some mod issues with Reality, regarding both HF and PBF. He's always given me a cordial answer when I questioned his rules. Not necessarily an answer I agree with, or one that I'd implement on HF and certainly not the rules that belong on WB, but still...he was polite, explained his rules clearly and firmly, and I always have the option to follow the rules or not participate. Fair enough...it's his forum, not mine.
And re: the experience level at PBF, that may be true for AT-style environments. I'll bet there's a lot more experience there about desert and above treeline hiking at PBF than there is at WB. Like everything, advantages and disadvantages.
It's not my favorite forum but I still find it useful enough to frequent. My others are WB, HF, and Sgt Rock's. Don't have room in my life for any others right now!
Nightwalker
08-09-2007, 00:49
At HF, I try to keep things generally about hammocking with only a little straying...and even though I've never deleted a single post (except admin stuff like double posts) I still get pushback for trying to keep the hammock forum about hammocks.
HF is the friendliest, least argumentative forum that I've ever been a member of. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it! :sun
I think it's this one:
My biggest irritant with PBF is the idea that format is more important than sharing information.
Egads! Sounds like my nine years in Catholic school. :) The nuns were all about doing the work the "right way" rather than the correct answer. More points were given for doing it how Sr. Helen said to do it than what was the correct anwer. (Truly!).
PBF also has a navy blue and light blue color motif. I just can't deal with that color scheme after nine years of Catholic school uniforms. ;)
In all seriousness, since I do not use PBF, are the threads active and informative enough with these restrictions? I tried viewing the threads, but you can only view the full threads if you are a member.
rswanson
08-10-2007, 11:04
Mags,
There is some good stuff there but I realy doubt someone of your knowledge will learn anything new. There isn't much going on over there that hasn't already been posted on this or other backpacking/hiking sites. The community is very freindly, though. The podcasts are also pretty neat.
The community is very freindly, though. The podcasts are also pretty neat.
Pretty active then overall? Good place for a person new to backpacking to learn the nuts and bolts?
With trailcast gone way, the PBF podcasts do fill a nice niche.
(My experience? What? They have a thread on the joys of packing boxed wine on hut trips? :D)
Mission statement. What's your mission statement when hiking?
To get as far away from a computer as possible. :sun
atraildreamer
11-20-2007, 15:42
Do a whois on the domain name and you might find out who the owner is.
Bernie (Reality) set it up. He runs a good site. No complaints from me.
I like the site; I'm a regular.
It's like the 'Straightforward' forum here, but full time.
it wont even let me register so i dont like it. i'll keep trying though. it just keeps saying sorry we are not taking and new members at this time.
Jay
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-23-2007, 05:50
Jay, the site isn't worth the effort to register - it is a small, closed group discussing gear and such among themselves.
WB rocks! If you can't find your answer to your gear question from the stats below, the answer may not be 'out there' :)
Members: 14,769 Threads: 25,992 Posts: 439,988
I like the site; I'm a regular.
It's like the 'Straightforward' forum here, but full time.
Straight foward has it's time and place. I prefer a looser atmosphere.
it wont even let me register so i dont like it. i'll keep trying though. it just keeps saying sorry we are not taking and new members at this time.
Jay
I like the forums. Lots of rules, but also lots of good information. Maybe not for everyone, but if you want to try registering again, the webmaster has instituted referrals. I don't know if it will work (since the the message you got is that they are not taking new members at this time), but you are welcome to try this link (it is a referral from my account):
www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=627
For some reason, traffic from Whiteblaze is redirected back here (discussed earlier in this thread), so you need to copy & paste this into a fresh browser window rather than just click on it (unfortunately, the forum software keeps recognizing this link as a URL and automatically making it clickable ...)
Tipi Walter
11-24-2007, 10:02
A tired, old subject, but I tried to get on the website and read thru some posts, COULD NOT since I'm not a member. Tried to become a member, COULD NOT. Now, what's the point of going to something that's broken?
www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=627 (http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=627)
For some reason, traffic from Whiteblaze is redirected back here (discussed earlier in this thread), so you need to copy & paste this into a fresh browser window rather than just click on it
Yeah, beacuse the owner of the website is an idiot.