View Full Version : Bear attack
A quick scan of the board did not find this mentioned although it probabily was somewhere. If it is already here somewhere, apologies to the mods and please delete or consolidate.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3793904.html
BENTON, Tenn. -- Authorities hunted today for a black bear that picked up a 2-year-old boy in its mouth and mauled his mother, critically injuring them before killing the child's older sister. The attack came Thursday afternoon in the Cherokee National Forest in southeast
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The family was at a pool below Benton Falls on Chilhowee Mountain when the bear attacked, the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency said.
Story continues...
Sad story, the reference to "other visitors" makes me wonder if this was a larger campground or someplace car campers gather. My guess is it is someplace where people habitually make food easily accessable, bears get used to free meals and an innocent child dies, a bear will likely die, because most people can not be bothered to clean up after themselves in the woods.
generoll
04-14-2006, 10:11
I think this took place at the foot of Benton Falls. Not a usual picnicking spot, but rather a popular short hike from the Forest Service campground located off highway 64 alongside the Ocoee. I don't think we can blame the people for this one.
yeah i saw it on yahoo this morning..man that terrible..
My condolences to the family of the little girl.
Panzer
johnny quest
04-14-2006, 10:36
of course its early to start suppositions about what happened. but i think its safe to say that we must all remember that when dealing with wild animals we cant always expect them to react "the way the textbook says". whether it was provoked, had a brain tumor or any number of other possible contributing factors....it is a wild bear and we must keep our wits about us when venturing into his domain. God be with the little girl's family.
I think killing the Bear is justifiable at this point.
Here is a link. http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060414001009990003&ncid=NWS00010000000001
Hungry Bears, especially at this time o year are unpredictable. This is very unfortunate. I wonder if anyone was feeding this bear (or bears) before this incident happened.
What especially hard is knowing that the little girl was attacked while running away.
Could of been a sick bear and it could of just as well been the hunger of the bear in a place (assumed) where food has been given to them in the past coupled with the running away of the child. A triggering of aggression.
MAYBE the bear was eating at the time someone discovered it.
bears get used to free meals and an innocent child dies, a bear will likely die, because most people can not be bothered to clean up after themselves in the woods.
and the terrible killer bears people will again unite to rage war with the wild and its understanding benefactors.
The want to be close to nature and its idiosyncracies is understood, simply because it is a treasure to be held precious.
What is not understood, in a percentage is your in a differnet world, you HAVE to act accordingly. Sooner or later when you try to practice "the wat you do things at home"customs in natures world something will end up causing you fear, pain or in extreme cases death.
It has gone on for so long, the want to be "out there" that is in all of us to a level. It is so sad to know this was a family outing based on just that, a trip in the wood, a memory of good times surrouned by ...nature. What could be a better thought.
Now instead a nightmare.
My condolences to the little girls family and a prayer here for the speedy full recovery for mom and baby.
Lion King
04-14-2006, 12:29
My heartfelt love to the family, as this is a tragedy.
The pain of losing a baby or young child is horrendous, I know personally.
The one thing we all have to remember is this.
Its the wilderness, its a bear, bears are wild animals.
We all know, or WE SHOULD know every time we step into the forest, mountains or valleys of the natural world anything can happen. Snakebite, bear attack, lightening strike, falls, mountain lions, allergic reactions we never knew we had...all potential killers, and all things we should be very aware of.
There is never a gaurentee that we wont have a fatal encouter with nature, never. and a 2 and a 6 year old by a pool fed from a waterfall is dangerous ground around Springtime. Especially in the smokies.
Bears eat fish and small prey and drink water, the noise of a stream will cover even the loudest laugh or cry of a child and the bear could have been surprised, and I am in no way saying it was the families fault, I am saying there are proventive measure we all know we should take, and alot of us dont.
I still sleep with my food...as do a great numebr of veteran hikers I know. We all know better, we all know what 'could' happen, but it rarely ever does, especially on the AT, but in our mind and hearts we know there is a distinctive possibility of death by mauling for doing something preventable.
I wasnt there for this, nor were any of you, so its hard to say what is right and wrong with it, but the fact is this, once we cross the line of security from our homes and cars into a National Park, we are stepping into the homes of the wild.
It is thier lands and thier homes, we dont have to like it but we do have to respect it.
Again, I feel for the family, but the natural habitat is being eradicated at an astoinishing pace (Such as the road they want to build through the smokies--which will cause a rise in human/ bear contact as well as possibly increase maulings and most asuredly will cost more bears their lives).
A death of a loved one is always painful, and this is no exception. If nothing else we all should take from this the importance of outdoor knowledge and paying attention to all signs around us.
My prayers are with the family.
sparky2000
04-14-2006, 13:20
I'm for the death penalty.
Child Killed, 2 Others Critical After Bear Attack In Polk County
posted April 14, 2006
A 6-year-old girl was killed and her 2-year-old brother and her mother are in critical condition after being attacked by a black bear in Polk County on Thursday.
The attack on the Ohio family happened at a campground on Chilhowee Mountain in the Cherokee National Forest about 4:20 p.m.
The victims were airlifted by LifeForce helicopter. The boy is in Children's Hospital and the woman in Erlanger Medical Center.
The incident was off the trail to Benton Falls, where a bear was seen earlier. The campground was closed
after the incident.
Witnesses said the bear walked up and took the boy in its mouth. Others nearby shouted at the bear and threw rocks and sticks at it. The mother was injured as she tried to free her son.
The six-year-old girl ran off during the struggle with the bear, and the bear also lumbered away. The girl's body was later found about 100 yards away.
A park ranger fired a shot at the bear, but it was able to get away.
The mother is 45 years old.
longshank
04-14-2006, 13:25
A quick scan of the board did not find this mentioned although it probabily was somewhere. If it is already here somewhere, apologies to the mods and please delete or consolidate.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3793904.html
Story continues...
Sad story, the reference to "other visitors" makes me wonder if this was a larger campground or someplace car campers gather. My guess is it is someplace where people habitually make food easily accessable, bears get used to free meals and an innocent child dies, a bear will likely die, because most people can not be bothered to clean up after themselves in the woods.
Or it could be that bears are bloodthirsty demons.
...a bear will likely die, because most people can not be bothered to clean up after themselves in the woods.
Screw the bear, who cares if he dies, he killed a 6 year child. No sympathy for the bear in my book. Let him die.
Panzer
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-14-2006, 21:15
I normally don't condone killing animals,but an animal that has attacked and killed a human is an exception.
Mini-Mosey
04-15-2006, 10:01
According to the news that I heard this morning, it's still not known what factors might have caused the bear to attack. My thoughts and condolences are with the family....very tragic.
Or it could be that bears are bloodthirsty demons.
Actually they're omnivores.
KirkMcquest
04-15-2006, 10:58
A quick scan of the board did not find this mentioned although it probabily was somewhere. If it is already here somewhere, apologies to the mods and please delete or consolidate.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3793904.html
Story continues...
Sad story, the reference to "other visitors" makes me wonder if this was a larger campground or someplace car campers gather. My guess is it is someplace where people habitually make food easily accessable, bears get used to free meals and an innocent child dies, a bear will likely die, because most people can not be bothered to clean up after themselves in the woods.
Hmm. Seems like just yesterday that I had to argue the possibility of a black bear attack, and the wisdom of carrying bear spray. Several posters ( including a very arrogent Jack Tarlin ) berrated me for suggesting that bears could be dangerous, I was even called a fear monger.
As usual, the facts have validated common sense.:rolleyes: I'll hold my breath for an admission of their faulty judgement.;)
Well, there's always the possibility of a black bear attack but I think you'd have a more of a chance of getting struck by lightening or breaking a leg.
I'd say Jack's rational is you can't prepare for every eventuality that may happen during a thru-hike and being attacked by a black bear is rare indeed.
KirkMcquest
04-15-2006, 11:19
It's been pretty much a yearly ocurrence, hun. Jack's rational is that you are stupid to take minor but obvious precautions. Preventing an attack is not just good for people, but also for bears. Jack is wrong.
A yearly occurrence?
Not to say there haven't been any encounters but, I haven't heard of any thru-hikers of actually getting attacked.
KirkMcquest
04-15-2006, 11:42
A yearly occurrence?
Not to say there haven't been any encounters but, I haven't heard of any thru-hikers of actually getting attacked.
Last year there were two attacks that I know of. One in Jersey. Whether or not they were thru-hikers is not relevent, I'm sure the bears don't discriminate. Jack is wrong. I'm still holding my breath while we argue the obvious.
KirkMcquest
04-15-2006, 11:53
The important thing to note here is that every time somebody is attacked, the bear or other bears are hunted down and killed. Taking simple precautions not only helps keep you safe, but is a responsible way to preserve wild bears. For every bear attack that takes place, bears are in danger of being villain-ized
Of course it's relevant if attacks were on thru-hikers or not since Jack's advice was given on that distinction.
Odds are you wont be attacked, unless your a dope like the guy is NJ that baited a bear with a bagel for a photo op.
Lion King
04-15-2006, 12:20
It's been pretty much a yearly ocurrence, hun. Jack's rational is that you are stupid to take minor but obvious precautions. Preventing an attack is not just good for people, but also for bears. Jack is wrong.
Not really a yearly occurance on the AT, but the more land is developed and the less inhabitable land is available for all animlas, not just bears, the more contact there will be.
With this and ignorance or arrogance, you will have more encounters that do go a bad direction.
That is the course of nature.
sad and bad, death sucks, but thats how it is.
Humans will one day realize we arent "Gods special little rainbows" and above all other rational thought and due process, wild animals live by code of basic survival.
PS
Not knocking God, humans, or bears...(Whew...almost offended one of those easily offended types--not you Kirk..whew...)
Yes this thread already exist on the web site at http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14364
Here's the latest on the family from Chattanoogan.com.
Condition Upgraded To Fair For Boy Attacked By Bear
Mother Remains In Critical Condition At Erlanger
posted April 14, 2006
Erlanger Medical Center officials on Saturday said a 2-year-old boy, Luke Cenkus, who was mauled by a black bear on Thursday, has been upgraded to fair condition. He is at Children's Hospital.
His 6-year-old sister, Elora Petrasek, was killed by the bear. Their mother, Susan Cenkus, 45, of Clyde, Ohio, remains in critical condition at Erlanger.
In a press conference held Friday at the Erlanger Baroness Campus, Dr. Greg Talbott reported that the child was taken to surgery Thursday night for repair of a significant puncture wound to the head which depressed the skull onto the brain, slightly bruising the brain. The two-hour surgery was performed by Dr. Lisa Smith of University Surgical Associates and Dr. Peter Boehm of the Neurosurgical Group of Chattanooga.
Dr. Talbott reported they are pleased with the outcome and comfortable with the child’s progress thus far. The child is being treated with antibiotics and pain medication and is being monitored for any neurological problems.
Dr. Talbott stated, “We anticipate he will make a complete recovery. He’s a little irritable as any two-year old would be under the circumstances, but he is doing as well, or better, than expected.”
Dr. Vicente Mejia, a local surgeon with University Surgical Associates, said, that, although the mother remains in critical condition, “She is also doing well - awake, alert and her vital signs are stable.” He added that she suffered from eight puncture wounds to the neck area, two of which were significant enough to require surgery. She sustained numerous soft tissue injuries to her upper and lower extremities and faces several additional surgeries.
Due to the location of some of the wounds, a spine specialist is also following her care.
Both doctors reported that an infectious disease specialist has been brought in and both mother and child have started a round of vaccinations for rabies.
The patients were flown from the scene by Erlanger’s air ambulance service, LifeForce, and Drs. Mejia and Talbott were complimentary of the excellent pre-hospital care the mother and son received.
Officials said the family "continues to ask for privacy and decline interviews. They wish to thank all the individuals and agencies who assisted with the rescue effort on Thursday and the hospital staff who are caring for their loved ones. They are extremely grateful for the thoughts and prayers that have been extended on their behalf during this very difficult time. They ask for continued prayers as they cope with this tragedy."
According to Cherokee National Forest Supervisor Tom Speaks, “The attack took place on the Ocoee-Hiwassee Ranger District near the Chilhowee Recreation Area about 22 miles east of Cleveland.”
Supervisor Speaks stated, “Our hearts go out to the family members who have suffered this devastating loss. We are working closely with the Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency to destroy the animal.”
The attack occurred on Thursday between 3:30 and 4:00 p.m. at Benton Falls near the Chilhowee Recreation Area. The mother and her two children were attacked by a large black bear. When rescue workers arrived on the scene, they rendered aid to the woman and her son. The young girl was found fatally injured about 60 yards downstream from Benton Falls.
The U.S. Forest Service has temporarily closed the Chilhowee Recreation Area and the Parksville Campground and several roads and trails in the vicinity of the attack.
According to Supervisor Speaks, “We are asking the public to please stay clear of this area while our personnel and the TWRA personnel attempt to find this bear.”
There have been no recent reports of nuisance bears in the Chilhowee Recreation Area. In recent years, the Forest Service has installed and maintained bear proof trash cans and signs warning visitors of the presence of black bears. “We don’t want visitors to be afraid to come to the forest,” Supervisor Speaks said. “However, we do want them to be mindful of the dangers that wild animals can pose.”
This is only the second confirmed fatal attack by black bears on humans in Tennessee.
The Forest Service made this statement on behalf of the family involved in the bear attack in the Cherokee National Forest:
The U.S. Forest Service has been asked today to make a statement on behalf of the family involved in the bear attack which took place on the Cherokee National Forest on Thursday. First, the family has asked to pass along to all of you their sincere gratitude for the concern, prayers and well wishes for them during this time of tragedy.
This event, which forever altered their lives, has been understandably very difficult for the entire family to cope with. So, during this time of sorrow and healing, the family asks that their privacy be respected. No interviews will be granted for the time-being as the family focuses on the tragic loss of their beloved little girl and as they work through the recovery process for the mother and son.
The names of the family members involved in this tragedy are: Susan Cenkus, age 45, from Clyde, Ohio, who remains in critical condition at Erlanger Hospital in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Luke Cenkus, age 2, from Clyde, Ohio, remains in stable condition at T.C. Thompson Children’s Hospital in Chattanooga. Elora Petrasek, age 6, also from Clyde, Ohio, was lost to the family yesterday afternoon as a result of this horrible event.
Again, the family asks that they be allowed to focus on the recovery process of their loved ones and all questions be directed to the U.S. Forest Service (423) 338-3323, Erlanger Hospital at (423) 778-7427 or the Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency (931) 261-8451.
Witnesses said the bear picked up the boy in its mouth, then the mother tried to come to his aid. The bear then began attacking the mother, dragging her off the trail. The daughter ran off during the melee, and her body was found about an hour later.
The man who found the body said the bear was standing over the little girl. He fired two shots at the bear before it lumbered off. He estimated the bear weighed 350-400 pounds.
A yearly occurrence?
Not to say there haven't been any encounters but, I haven't heard of any thru-hikers of actually getting attacked.
Bears are like any attacker, they will attack children and women before they would attack a fit man.
There was recently an incident in NJ where a kid was sleeping in a sleeping bag and had gram crackers inside the bag with him. He was not sleeping in a tent but was out in the open on a ground cloth. The bear tried to get at the crackers while another kit filmed the incident but failed to sound any alarm to wake up the sleeping hikers. The sleeping kid was technically bitten or better yet "mouthed" but was not injured. Tecnically this was an attack but not a "real" attack. The bear was not trying to hurt anyone.
Panzer
Rain Man
04-15-2006, 15:44
Here's the latest on the family from Chattanoogan.com.
Erlanger Medical Center officials on Saturday said a 2-year-old boy, Luke Cenkus, who was mauled by a black bear on Thursday, has been upgraded to fair condition. ... Dr. Talbott reported they are pleased with the outcome ...
Dr. Vicente Mejia, a local surgeon with University Surgical Associates, said, that, although the mother remains in critical condition, “She is also doing well - awake, alert and her vital signs are stable.”
Thank goodness they seem to be doing well. Thanks for sharing this, Mowgli.
Rain Man
.
KirkMcquest
04-15-2006, 16:12
Of course it's relevant if attacks were on thru-hikers or not since Jack's advice was given on that distinction.
Odds are you wont be attacked, unless your a dope like the guy is NJ that baited a bear with a bagel for a photo op.
Yes, your right, Sly. What was I thinking? Had those people been thru-hikers, this would never have happened. We all know that bears are capable of distinguishing a thru-hiker from a camper or day-hiker. I stand corrected.:)
KirkMcquest
04-15-2006, 16:38
Not really a yearly occurance on the AT, but the more land is developed and the less inhabitable land is available for all animlas, not just bears, the more contact there will be.
With this and ignorance or arrogance, you will have more encounters that do go a bad direction.
That is the course of nature.
sad and bad, death sucks, but thats how it is.
Humans will one day realize we arent "Gods special little rainbows" and above all other rational thought and due process, wild animals live by code of basic survival.
PS
Not knocking God, humans, or bears...(Whew...almost offended one of those easily offended types--not you Kirk..whew...)
I see we agree 100%. It's this same ignorance AND arrogance that I'm trying to prevent. It's an uphill battle, though. When revered ( however misguided that reverence is) people like Jack Tarlin espouse an incorrect point of view, people like Sly rush to their defense like mother hens. Sly is defending Jack 'the person', not really discussing a point. This is emotion, not logic. This is why conflicts between people and bears, even people and people, continue.
Yes, your right, Sly. What was I thinking? Had those people been thru-hikers, this would never have happened. We all know that bears are capable of distinguishing a thru-hiker from a camper or day-hiker. I stand corrected.:)
Well maybe than can distinguish a thru-hiker from a camper/day-hiker, especially if the camper/day hiker is a 6 year old child. Black bears are picky about who they attack. They attack the weak or defenseless. Thru hikers tend to look like they can defend themselves. I do think that it is less likely that a black bear would attack a thru-hiker.
Panzer
Skidsteer
04-15-2006, 21:36
Yes, your right, Sly. What was I thinking? Had those people been thru-hikers, this would never have happened. We all know that bears are capable of distinguishing a thru-hiker from a camper or day-hiker. I stand corrected.:)
Bears distinguish possible prey/enemies by smell and by sight. A day-hiker or car camper doesn't smell anything like a thru-hiker or section-hiker.
This distinction, although substantial, is nothing compared to the difference between a full-grown thru-hiker and a toddler or a six year old girl .
Maybe you should carry bear spray, Kirk.;)
Jack Tarlin
04-15-2006, 23:40
Kirk:
I'll respond to your semi-literate, inordianately stupid comments later. I don't have the time or the leisure right now....I'm hiking, and your pudgy citified ass is fno doubt flounced behind a desk at home or more likely at work, and can sound off whenever you wish. I don't have that option.
(Incidentally, what I SAID (quite awhile ago by the way) was that bear attacks in the East were extraordinarily rare, and almost never occur. And guess what? This is still true. The fact that one just took place doesn't change this.....there have been almost NO bear fatalities in the East in the past 50 years, and recent developments doesn't mean things have changed.....if Kirk seems to think this week's bizarre incident means that the woods are filled with legions of homicidal bears, well, he's delusional, and he should stay in Brooklyn with his fears).
The chances of a bear attack on or near the A.T were and STILL ARE minimal. Extremely minimal. Got that, Kirk? If you'd actually spent any real time on the A.T., of course, you'd know this...but you haven't, right? Care to admit it?
What happened is obviously a tragedy, and a very rare one.
If Kirk wants to score Intenet points off of a child's death, he can have at it.
The fact remains thus: There have been a minute (that means really small, Kirk) number of bear attacks on human beings in the East in the last seventy years. Repeat, a minute ammount. On the A.T., nothing....zip, nada, nothing, OK?
One has a greater risk of being attacked in one's home, school, or workplace than of being attacked by a bear on the A.T. Wine stewards or waiters at cheesy New York restaurants have a greater chance of encountering violence than hikers on the A.T...... but then, one would have to get out of New York to realize this. Wanna tell us about something you know about, Kirk?
Kirk's hand-wringing and fear-mongering is wrong, ill-informed, and butt-ignorant. He doesn't know jack-diddly about the Appalachial Trail.
Geez, enough. I'm hiking right now....I don't have the time or leisure to deal with this Internet bull****. Fire away, Kirk, it'll be a few days till I can get back to you (I'm hiking, sonny; you're more than likely at a computer at work in the upstairs office cheating on your employer).
What happened was a crazy, freak episode. If Kirk wants to pretend otherwise, he's merely proving he knows less know less about the Trail than we've been led to believe.
Bye, Kirk. Hope city life is treating you well.
When you wanna talk about reality in the hill country, why not come out and see it for yourself sometime, OK?
Meantime, stay in the city and be afraid.
Fear becomes you.
It's an uphill battle, though. When revered ( however misguided that reverence is) people like Jack Tarlin espouse an incorrect point of view, people like Sly rush to their defense like mother hens. Sly is defending Jack 'the person', not really discussing a point. This is emotion, not logic. This is why conflicts between people and bears, even people and people, continue.
You're not paying attention. Jack and I argue all the time, we seldom agree on anything, but here apparently we do.
Thru-hikers are BIG, they have packs on, and walk wildly with confidence. As mentioned, they also stink and smell like they belong as opposed to six year old girls that run and toddlers where the bear is baited with a bagel by his father.
Jack and I both speak from experience of hiking thousands of miles on the trail(s). It's not emotion, it's logic, abet anectodal. Where's your experience from?
There's my nemesis now! ;)
Hey Jack, how's your hike going?
alert! captin kurk is a preditor <hr style="color: rgb(51, 153, 102);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> he is dammit! get his leachy self off our blazing site.vote now!you guys are right. lone wolf! atack! get im! lone wolf would you kill him like hannable lecter did that guy in the next sell just by talking? please? pretty please? im scared!this guy could be dangerous !lol
I thought that captin kurk was banned from the White Blaze web site by mweinstone back in February. See above...
Panzer
Jack Tarlin
04-16-2006, 00:10
All's well, Sly.....knee is behaving much better than expected, and no Philistine bears bent on murder, rapine, or pillage.
Happily, no pussified Brooklynite weekenders either, and their assorted bleating and weeping trail terrors. Life's too short. Actually, would prefer the risks of priodic bear encounters over nervous, twitchy New Yorkers.
The bears at least shut the f*** up after you shoo them away.
Happy Easter, see you at Trail's end.
shades of blue
04-16-2006, 00:14
Kirk...
If carrying bear spray will make you feel safer, you should do it. You have to take precautions that YOU feel necessary. Some people don't carry maps, some people think your world will end if you don't. I've had four bear experiences on the trail. Except for one, they all ran away...the other one laid in the trail and refused to budge. Most experienced hikers can tell you how to react when facing this situation. Is there any guarentee that you won't be attacked? Of course not, but in most instances, the bear is afraid of you. We have no idea what happened before this bear attacked. I do know that running away is the worst thing you can do...that and being small like a 6 year old...but no one here blames the girl. She reacted like a small child would...especially after seeing her family be attacked. Regardless of what happened that precipitated this attack, it is still a horrible thing. The question is...what can YOU do to keep your self relatively safe on the trail.
Don't sleep with your food.
Bear proof/bag your food, especially in known areas of bear activity.
Eat away from where you camp.
Walk with a partner who runs slower than you :-)
Walk slowly away from a bear, never turn and run...they're faster than you.
Make yourself look bigger than the bear, beat on pans, hiking sticks...make lots of noise.
DON'T FEED THE BEAR.
All these things will keep you far safer in a bear encounter or prevent a bear encounter...than carrying a gun or bear spray. As for Jack...he talks from lots of personal experience, as do lots of people on here. I respect nature, and I try to be prepared...but I don't live in fear (at least most of the time). Something to think about.
All's well, Sly.....knee is behaving much better than expected, and no Philistine bears bent on murder, rapine, or pillage.
Happily, no pussified Brooklynite weekenders either, and their assorted bleating and weeping trail terrors. Life's too short. Actually, would prefer the risks of priodic bear encounters over nervous, twitchy New Yorkers.
The bears at least shut the f*** up after you shoo them away.
LOL... I'm glad to hear all's going well. They say it only gets better! "Keep persisting!"
Traps Empty in Junt for Killer Tenn. Bear (article) (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060416/ap_on_re_us/bear_attack;_ylt=AoAvdRfAPX7d5KeqivFYjc2s0NUE;_ylu =X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-)
By BILL POOVEY, Associated Press Writer
Sat Apr 15, 10:31 PM ET
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. - A popular mountaintop campground remained closed Saturday as officials searched for signs of the black bear that killed a 6-year-old girl near a swimming hole.
Officers detected some "bear activity" around the traps and snares that were rigged Friday in the remote Cherokee National Forest Chilhowee Recreation Area, said Sharon Moore, a U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman.
If any bears are trapped, a comparison with hairs shed during the attack will identify the responsible animal, Moore said.
Authorities have closed all roads and trails leading into the recreation area.
The girl's 2-year-old brother was in fair condition but their mother remained in critical condition, hospital officials said Saturday. Doctors said they expected both to recover.
The bear attacked Elora Petrasek on Thursday afternoon as she and her family were leaving a waterfall pool on a rugged, 1,800-foot-high mountaintop, about 10 miles from the nearest highway.
The family from of Clyde, Ohio, was among several groups of visitors leaving a waterfall when the children reported seeing a bear on the trail.
Adults were trying to drive the 350- to 400-pound bear off the trail when it attacked, biting the 2-year-old Luke Cenkus on his head and puncturing his skull, officials said.
His mother, Susan Cenkus, 45, tried to fend off the bear with rocks and sticks but the bear attacked her, dragging her yards off the trail.
Her daughter apparently ran away and almost an hour passed before rescuer Danny Stinnett found her body about 100 yards off the trail with the bear.
He said he shot twice at the bear with a pistol before it ran away.
Stinnett, who is 5-foot-8, said he hit the bear, which reared up on its hind legs.
Cenkus and her children stopped at the forest recreation area Thursday while they were in the area to visit her eldest son, a music student at Lee University in Cleveland, near Chattanooga.
They had planned to watch him participate in an Easter weekend religious service, said a relative in Cleveland who would not give her name. She said the family was not ready to talk to reporters.
The attack happened about 10 miles from the river where the 1996 Olympics whitewater competition was held.
Some federal and state wildlife officers said they could only speculate about why the bear turned violent instead of running away, and said it might never be caught.
"We don't know (that) the bear hadn't been antagonized on the trail by the children," said Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency spokesman Dan Hicks. "In this case all of our witnesses made a posthaste exit."
Black bears normally are shy and there have been only 56 documented killings of humans by members of the species in North America in the past 100 years, said Lynn Rogers of the North American Bear Center in Ely, Minn.
Actually, would prefer the risks of periodic bear encounters over nervous, twitchy New Yorkers.
Sounds to me like post traumatic stress disorder after having your baseball team get its arse kicked 87 out of 88 years. ;)
Happy Easter Jack - and to all. And god bless the twitchy New Yorkers among us!
I have an issue with twitchy New Yorkers myself. Having worked there for 12 years, I had to listen to them twitch and squirm when I told them I was section hiking the AT. The usual response was "aren't you afraid of bears?" My response was "no, I am afraid of New York and New Yorkers!" My first section hike was 2 days after 9/11. While I was on another section, the Staten Island Ferry crashed killing a few people. People are murdered every day or die on the highways, why should I be afraid of bears?
Here's another article from this morning;
Boy, 7, attacked by mountain lion in Colorado
Child’s current condition unclear; cat later killed by wildlife official
The Associated Press
Updated: 3:03 a.m. ET April 16, 2006
BOULDER, Colo. - A 7-year-old boy hiking with his family was attacked Saturday by a mountain lion, officials said. The cat was later killed by a wildlife officer.
The mountain lion bit the boy’s head or jaw, and the child also suffered puncture wounds or scrapes on his legs, likely from the animal’s claws, Division of Wildlife spokesman Tyler Baskfield said.
The boy, whose name was not released, was apparently the last in a single-file line of seven other people taking a short hike at a scenic area of Flagstaff Mountain, Baskfield said.
“The father turned and saw the cat had a hold of the young boy,” he said. The group began screaming at the cat and throwing rocks and was able to free the boy, he said.
The group was 50 yards from a parking lot when the cat attacked, Baskfield said.
The boy was initially listed in stable condition at Boulder Community Hospital. He was later transferred to The Children’s Hospital in Denver, Baskfield said, but he did not know the boy’s condition.
Attack is unusual, officials say
An officer fatally shot the cat early Sunday in the same area of the attack, Baskfield said. It was killed in the interest of public safety, he said.
Baskfield said the mountain is prime habitat for the cats, and there had been several recent sightings of mountain lions west of Boulder.
“This is a very rare incident to happen,” Baskfield said. “Mountain lions tend to be very elusive. Typically mountain lions don’t want any part of people.”
Here's the deal as I see it. This incident and the one in Tennessee are tragic isolated incidents. They call out for the protection and creation of more open space - not less.
Of course, hiking remains a very safe activity. Especially when compared to dangerous activities such as..... driving.
Of course, you could always let fear get the better of you and take up another hobby like... hang gliding or bungee jumping. Me. I'll stick to hiking, and will continue to prefer hiking in landscapes replete with an entire assemblage of fauna including all native predators. It is when I feel most alive.
I feel safer in the woods than the city, and the company is better!
Kirk...
Bear proof/bag your food, especially in known areas of bear activity.
Eat away from where you camp.
Walk with a partner who runs slower than you :-)
Walk slowly away from a bear, never turn and run...they're faster than you.
Make yourself look bigger than the bear, beat on pans, hiking sticks...make lots of noise.
DON'T FEED THE BEAR.
All these things will keep you far safer in a bear encounter or prevent a bear encounter...than carrying a gun or bear spray.
I'm going camping/hiking up in the BWCA in northern MN in a few weeks, by myself, and I'll be doing all those things of course----plus carry the bear spray. I just feel more comfortable with it, particularly when hiking alone.
KirkMcquest
04-16-2006, 10:04
Kirk:
I'll respond to your semi-literate, inordianately stupid comments later. I don't have the time or the leisure right now....I'm hiking, and your pudgy citified ass is fno doubt flounced behind a desk at home or more likely at work, and can sound off whenever you wish. I don't have that option.
(Incidentally, what I SAID (quite awhile ago by the way) was that bear attacks in the East were extraordinarily rare, and almost never occur. And guess what? This is still true. The fact that one just took place doesn't change this.....there have been almost NO bear fatalities in the East in the past 50 years, and recent developments doesn't mean things have changed.....if Kirk seems to think this week's bizarre incident means that the woods are filled with legions of homicidal bears, well, he's delusional, and he should stay in Brooklyn with his fears).
The chances of a bear attack on or near the A.T were and STILL ARE minimal. Extremely minimal. Got that, Kirk? If you'd actually spent any real time on the A.T., of course, you'd know this...but you haven't, right? Care to admit it?
What happened is obviously a tragedy, and a very rare one.
If Kirk wants to score Intenet points off of a child's death, he can have at it.
The fact remains thus: There have been a minute (that means really small, Kirk) number of bear attacks on human beings in the East in the last seventy years. Repeat, a minute ammount. On the A.T., nothing....zip, nada, nothing, OK?
One has a greater risk of being attacked in one's home, school, or workplace than of being attacked by a bear on the A.T. Wine stewards or waiters at cheesy New York restaurants have a greater chance of encountering violence than hikers on the A.T...... but then, one would have to get out of New York to realize this. Wanna tell us about something you know about, Kirk?
Kirk's hand-wringing and fear-mongering is wrong, ill-informed, and butt-ignorant. He doesn't know jack-diddly about the Appalachial Trail.
Geez, enough. I'm hiking right now....I don't have the time or leisure to deal with this Internet bull****. Fire away, Kirk, it'll be a few days till I can get back to you (I'm hiking, sonny; you're more than likely at a computer at work in the upstairs office cheating on your employer).
What happened was a crazy, freak episode. If Kirk wants to pretend otherwise, he's merely proving he knows less know less about the Trail than we've been led to believe.
Bye, Kirk. Hope city life is treating you well.
When you wanna talk about reality in the hill country, why not come out and see it for yourself sometime, OK?
Meantime, stay in the city and be afraid.
Fear becomes you.
Blah....blah...blah....rail against Mcquest.....blah....blah.....blah....your from newYork.....blah....blah...spelling errors....blah...blah....I know more than you......blahblah...etc,etc.
Don't you know any other tunes, Jack? This one's starting to get redundant. The truth is, you're arguing against the possibility of a bear attack on a thread thats discussing a recent attack. Perhaps you should spend less time trying to appear literate, and abit more time on what your actually saying.
If Jack Tarlin really gave a $%^% about the outdoors, he would recognize the danger that a bear attack poses to the already delicate state of our wilderness. By at least recognizing the quite obvious and inarguable fact that bears can pose a danger, he might be more helpful to others, if not himself.
By constantly going down this track, its becoming alarmingly obvious that you are the one that's afraid, not me.
I don't think bear attacks or mountain lion attacks are the issue, but the public reaction. The only fear I have is the potential for more regulations around human behavior in the woods. Common sense should prevail and all that is needed is a little education that people need to take precautions when in bear or mountain lion country. Most attacks could be averted with a simple warning to avoid feeding the wild animals, stay away from cubs, make some noise when passing through, and keep kids close to adults.
Jack Tarlin
04-16-2006, 11:45
"Recognize the obvious," Kirky?
What is obvious is that you don't have a clue as to what you're babbling about here.
Bear attacks in the East are extraordinarily uncommon events. Period. What happened a few days ago doesn't change this.
But Kirk wants me to "recognize the danger" that bears present to A.T. hikers.
Not being much of one himself, his comments are wild and speculative.
Here's the news, Kirk: I recognize that the danger from bears is absolutely minimal......I also don't dwell on being struck by lightning, succumbing to bee stings, dying of a copperhead bite, or being attacked by a rabid opossum.
Oh, ALL of these calamities, by the way, pose greater threats to hikers on the A.T. than bears do.
If you'd spent any time out there, you'd know this.
So your ignorance on the subject is sorta justified.
But it's still ignorant.
Bye, now. Don't forget to check the batteries on your nightlight, OK? Geez, it must be a real drag to live in terror.
Almost There
04-16-2006, 11:57
Blah....blah...blah....rail against Mcquest.....blah....blah.....blah....your from newYork.....blah....blah...spelling errors....blah...blah....I know more than you......blahblah...etc,etc.
Don't you know any other tunes, Jack? This one's starting to get redundant. The truth is, you're arguing against the possibility of a bear attack on a thread thats discussing a recent attack. Perhaps you should spend less time trying to appear literate, and abit more time on what your actually saying.
If Jack Tarlin really gave a $%^% about the outdoors, he would recognize the danger that a bear attack poses to the already delicate state of our wilderness. By at least recognizing the quite obvious and inarguable fact that bears can pose a danger, he might be more helpful to others, if not himself.
By constantly going down this track, its becoming alarmingly obvious that you are the one that's afraid, not me.
I agree, and so on that account....I will no longer drive my car or go anywhere near a major road...as there is a very real chance that I might be hit and killed by a dangerous car.:eek:
If you lived in the savannas of southern Africa, and went near a watering hole would people be outraged if you were attacked by a cheetah or a lion? The problem is people think that because they can get to it by roads that it is quasi-wilderness. It's the bears natural habitat, and in all liklihood there is something wrong with it. Do you know how many people hike the AT without ever seeing a bear? There are quite a few.
A tragedy...sure! One more thing to freak out about...no! Unless you want to change your name to Chicken McLittle because the sky is falling!:D
KirkMcquest
04-16-2006, 12:14
.....Blah,Blah
Not being much of one himself, his comments are wild and speculative.
Here's the news, Kirk: I recognize that the danger from bears is absolutely minimal......I also don't dwell on being struck by lightning, succumbing to bee stings, dying of a copperhead bite, or being attacked by a rabid opossum.
Oh, ALL of these calamities, by the way, pose greater threats to hikers on the A.T. than bears do.
If you'd spent any time out there, you'd know this....Blah,blah
Wild and speculative, Jack??? My statement that a bear attack is possible, and that taking some precautions to deter an attack might be a good idea, can hardley be considered wild or speculative.
At this point your just not big enough to admit that your wrong, and your going to just continue arguing.
As far as my experiences with hiking the AT, what do you know about it? I certainly have not fallen into the obvious trap of trying to list my outdoor accomplishments, nor will I.
From what I can gather, your experience is limited to hiking the same trail, year after year like some mindless, migrating caribou.
Anyway, I'll stop now before I get too personal. I'll leave the personal attacks and baby insults to you.:D
Poisonous snake bite, poisonous spider bite, falling from over 15 feet, being struck by lightning, hypothermia, lyme disease, being struck by a car at a road crossing, rabid animal attack, being struck by a falling limb or tree in a wind or ice storm, having a health emergency miles from a road, having your stove malfunction and explode right in your face, drowning in a swollen river, hyperthermia, having a serious allergic reaction to a bee sting coupled with being stung dozens of times, mishandling of a knife resulting in a serious wound, getting your eye gouged out by a tree branch, getting attacked by a wild dog, getting attacked by a person, suffering serious dehydration, getting lost after dark in bad weather.....getting attacked by a bear.................................all mentioned here plus more are possibilities, although some of these scenarios are more likely than others. Fact of the matter is awareness of your surroundings and situation will go a long way in keeping you out of trouble. I also know that I don't dwell on any of this when I backpack. It would suck the joy right out of it.... oh, I forgot to mention being attacked by piranhas in Lake Fontana...if someone released some into the lake from their aquarium, then it is a possibility.;)
saimyoji
04-16-2006, 13:34
...oh, I forgot to mention being attacked by piranhas in Lake Fontana...if someone released some into the lake from their aquarium, then it is a possibility.;)
Actually, swimming in MD, PA lakes, streams is no longer safe. The ferocious snakehead, frankenfish, has invaded.
RockyTrail
04-16-2006, 13:49
Poisonous snake bite, poisonous spider bite, falling from over 15 feet, being struck by lightning, hypothermia, lyme disease, being struck by a car at a road crossing, rabid animal attack, being struck by a falling limb or tree in a wind or ice storm, having a health emergency miles from a road, having your stove malfunction and explode right in your face, drowning in a swollen river, hyperthermia, having a serious allergic reaction to a bee sting coupled with being stung dozens of times, mishandling of a knife resulting in a serious wound, getting your eye gouged out by a tree branch, getting attacked by a wild dog, getting attacked by a person, suffering serious dehydration, getting lost after dark in bad weather.....getting attacked by a bear
Don't forget being bored to death by tit-for-tat squabbles on hiking related message boards:D
Guys, thanks for reminding me about bee stings. My wife goes nuts when I forget my epipen!
They caught the bear.
Bear steaks all around tonight!
For the record, Connecticut is a subdivision of the Empire State. It's where we keep our nutmeg.
Full article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060416/ap_on_re_us/bear_attack)
By ROSE FRENCH, Associated Press Writer
33 minutes ago
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - The black bear believed to have attacked a family at a popular mountaintop campground, killing a 6-year-old girl, was caught on Sunday, according to the U.S. Forest Service.
The bear looked to be the same weight as the 350- to 400-pound bear that attacked a mother and her two children on a trail in the recreation area on Thursday, she said.
"We're very hopeful this is the bear," Moore said. "It's basically the same size bear. There's truly not that many bears in the 5,000 acres we have closed off."
Moore said authorities planned to euthanize the bear on Sunday and send its body to the University of Tennessee's College of Veterinary Medicine in Knoxville to determine whether it was the one that had attacked the family.
Authorities also will keep all roads and trails leading into the recreation area closed off until the school's report is issued.
A bear attacked and killed Elora Petrasek Thursday afternoon as she and her family were leaving a waterfall pool on a rugged, 1,800-foot-high mountaintop, about 10 miles from the nearest highway.
For the record, Connecticut is a subdivision of the Empire State. It's where we keep our nutmeg.
I knew a nasty cat named Nutmeg. It was from New York. :D
I knew a nasty cat named Nutmeg. It was from New York. :D
What part of New York? New Haven? Old Lyme? Danbury?
What part of New York? New Haven? Old Lyme? Danbury?
North of Danbury and just a few miles south of where the trail enters the Nutmeg State.
Can't wait to see the armament hanging off some of the hikers after this reported bear attack...canisters of bear spray, holsters with 30 rounds and 44 mag on the hip, flares, 2 cell phones powered by a mini wind turbine strapped to head , grenades? I'll still be going with the basics though....Proper clothing, food, gear and self reliance is all I need thank you
Pacific Tortuga
04-16-2006, 15:48
They think they caught the bear it seems to meet the M.O. Authorities claim to want to euthanize the bear and send hair to Tenn. College of Vet. Med.to compare hair left at the attack. I do not undedrstand why they need to do it that way since there are not many large bear's in the 5,000 mile radius so they say,cart before the horse or the guilty by size theory? :-?
Lion King
04-16-2006, 16:03
"KILL WHITEY!"
oh..opps...wrong thread.:D
KirkMcquest
04-16-2006, 20:21
I agree, and so on that account....I will no longer drive my car or go anywhere near a major road...as there is a very real chance that I might be hit and killed by a dangerous car.:eek:
If you lived in the savannas of southern Africa, and went near a watering hole would people be outraged if you were attacked by a cheetah or a lion? The problem is people think that because they can get to it by roads that it is quasi-wilderness. It's the bears natural habitat, and in all liklihood there is something wrong with it. Do you know how many people hike the AT without ever seeing a bear? There are quite a few.
A tragedy...sure! One more thing to freak out about...no! Unless you want to change your name to Chicken McLittle because the sky is falling!:D
Your post would make more sense if I had ever suggested that anyone shouldn't hike because of bears. I never even implied that. Regarding your analogy of driving, my position would be akin to suggesting that you wear your seat belt. Jack Tarlin ( and co.) are basically telling you not to wear your seat belt, there is no danger of ever crashing and getting injured, and your a chicken if you buckle up, and acknowledge the rules of the road.
I suggest that we all coolly acknowledge the potential for being attacked by a bear, while hiking in bear country, carrying food, in the spring time. Yes, the chances are small, but they are there.
After this rational acknowledgment, we adopt strategies to deal with this possibilty, should it arise.
Some of you choose to believe that bears are gentle harmless woodland creatures like faeries or wood nymphs. And I guess that's ok too, since thinning the herd is all part of the great natural cycle of life.:sun
Believe it or not... Bears hate the smell of burning tobacco, and can smell it from a mile away when the wind is right.... tobacco burners have no fear from the mighty black bear cause they think you stink!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-16-2006, 20:45
::: momentary lull in on-going pissing contest :::
I hope they have the right bear for the safety of everyone who frequents the area and I hope they can find out why it attacked for the sake of the family's peace of mind.
::: resume pissing contest :::
Regarding your analogy of driving, my position would be akin to suggesting that you wear your seat belt. Jack Tarlin ( and co.) are basically telling you not to wear your seat belt, there is no danger of ever crashing and getting injured, and your a chicken if you buckle up, and acknowledge the rules of the road.
I suggest that we all coolly acknowledge the potential for being attacked by a bear, while hiking in bear country, carrying food, in the spring time. Yes, the chances are small, but they are there.
After this rational acknowledgment, we adopt strategies to deal with this possibilty, should it arise.
Some of you choose to believe that bears are gentle harmless woodland creatures like faeries or wood nymphs. And I guess that's ok too, since thinning the herd is all part of the great natural cycle of life.:sun
O.K. now I have to reply to this for 2 reasons: First, I have not read a single post that states that a black bear attack in the Eastern U.S. is not possible. Why should anyone have to "coolly acknowledge" a fact that is accepted? Lightning kills many more in the woods and does not get ANY news coverage. Seems to me that concentrating on threats that honestly are at the absolute bottom of the probability scale takes focus away from real dangers that hikers and backpackers face. Second, as for adopting strategies to avert bear attacks, what are you adding here that is not already within the realm of proven strategies? Obviously you feel that bear spray is a prudent choice for protection against bears, fair enough? I say carry it and be comforted by it. Just don't forget the more important measures to take to protect yourself against bears. Speaking of everyday threats Kirk, do you wear a motorcycle helmet while driving your car? Well I don't and I would say that practice would be 1000x more likely to save your life than carrying bear spray in the woods. That being said, I fully approve of anything people do for their safety as long as I don't have to carry it.:)
Black Bear Captured; Officials Believe It Killed Clyde Girl
April 17, 2006 04:48 AM CDT
Black Bear Captured; Officials Believe It Killed Clyde Girl
NASHVILLE (AP) -- The US Forest Service captured a black bear Sunday, and they believe it is the one that killed a girl in a Tennessee park Thursday. A spokeswoman said the bear will be euthanized. Its body will then be sent to experts who'll determine if it's the bear that killed the girl and injured two members of her family.
According to the spokeswoman, the bear is the same size as the killer bear. She also pointed out that aren't many bears in the area that was quarantined after the attack.
The family had been at a pool below a waterfall in the Cherokee National Forest on Thursday afternoon when the bear attacked, the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency said. The 350- to 400-pound bear killed the 6-year-old girl, and critically injured her mother and 2-year-old brother.
Sources at Bellevue Hospital identified the mother as Sue Cenkus, an employee at the hospital. The family reportedly lives in Clyde, Ohio, about 40 miles east of Toledo. The hospital released a statement, saying in part that the hospital extends its deepest sympathies, and the family remains in its prayers.
Witnesses said the bear snatched up the boy in its mouth as the mother and other visitors at the Chilhowee campground tried to fend it off with sticks and rocks. The girl ran away, but was later found dead about 100 yards down a trail. When her body was found, a bear was standing over her, authorities said.
It's been reported that one of the rescue squad members who responded to the emergency fired a shot at the bear from a small caliber handgun -- but, because there was no blood, it was unclear if the bear was hit. Officials said the shot caused the bear to run away.
Officials are still trying to piece together exactly what happened to spur the attack. Rangers said the animal might have been suffering from a disease that affected its behavior. "It's a pretty rare thing, black bears generally don't attack people," said park ranger Monty Williams.
The mother and boy were listed in critical condition Friday at a Chattanooga hospital, but both are expected to recover. The boy had puncture wounds on his head and claw marks on his body. The mother also suffered puncture wounds when she was picked up and dragged by the bear.
The attack occurred in an isolated mountainous area, 10 miles from the nearest highway, in the 640,000-acre national forest, which runs along the Tennessee-North Carolina line southwest of Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Authorities first tried to search the rugged terrain for the bear, but called off that effort early Friday to concentrate on trying to trap the animal in a 1,000-acre area around the campground.
The campground had only six of its 88 campsites filled at the time of the attack, officials said. Terry McDonald of the US Forest Service said the family members were believed to be day visitors, not overnight campers. The campground was evacuated after the attack.
Officials said there have been 42 bear sightings in the area in the past couple of weeks, but this is the time of year when bears are usually active. In May 2000, a woman was killed by a black bear near Gatlinburg. Glena Ann Bradley, a schoolteacher from Cosby, was attacked by two female bears when she took a walk on a trail near a Smoky Mountains campground.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
[quote=The campground had only six of its 88 campsites filled at the time of the attack, officials said. Terry McDonald of the US Forest Service said the family members were believed to be day visitors, not overnight campers. The campground was evacuated after the attack.
Officials said there have been 42 bear sightings in the area in the past couple of weeks, but this is the time of year when bears are usually active. In May 2000, a woman was killed by a black bear near Gatlinburg. Glena Ann Bradley, a schoolteacher from Cosby, was attacked by two female bears when she took a walk on a trail near a Smoky Mountains campground.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.[/quote]
I think it all boils down to the primal urges of the bear. In this I mean for one its a campground, campgrounds mean food sources for wildlife. Although most campgrounds have proceedures on controlling campers food-trash disposal. It only takes a couple non-compliant campers to sooner or later attract hungry mammals.
The area these people were attacked apparently held an interest to the bears as a natural food source (the waterfall ie fish) and a food source with human food wastes (or possibly food left intentionally by some to feed "the nice bears").
The bear was probably a resident of the that area thus at least used to the occassional human crossing its tracks (although most times I am sure the humans never knew it was near). This, as its been documented over and over again, makes the bears more brazen for close contact. If this is a good scenario, I think this incident has the hungry bear looking for food, and (whether it was sick or had rabies or something else happened) something triggered it into predatory mode.
I am glad to see they have upgraded the 2yr old to stable however, due to the injury I hold hope that he will be able to live a life without anything more than the scars. It will be enough to remember about his sister. Hopefully mom is on her way to an upgrade herself.
Anyone know more about her condition?
From Chattanoogan.com;
Relatives of a family attacked in Polk County by a bear on Thursday say the family loved the Chilhowie site and that the incident was "a freak thing."
Christopher Dennison, a Lee University student and the oldest son of attack victim Susan Cenkus, said, "That was our favorite place to go for recreation. We never had any fear of going there. We loved it very much."
The family held a morning press conference at Erlanger Medical Center - mainly to thank those who were involved in the rescue and in the medical treatment of those who survived.
Susan Cenkus, 45, remains in critical condition at Erlanger, but she may be released as early as the end of next week.
Her two-year-old son, Luke Cenkus, is in fair condition. Doctors say he may need a psychological evaluation. Dr. Lisa Smith said he underwent "pretty severe emotional trauma."
Elora Petrasek, 6-year-old daughter of Susan Cenkus, was killed by the bear. The bear believed to be the one involved in the attack was killed on Sunday after being trapped.
Rob Petrasek, father of Elora, said at the press conference that was often emotional, "Thank God for helping us cope with this tragedy."
He said the family consider the rescue workers "as heroes for their quick and thorough response." He said the care and concern the family has received "has meant more to us than we can ever express."
Mr. Petrasek, a machinist, said he met Susan in Tennessee. He said he has lived at Cleveland, Chattanooga and Tullahoma.
Family members said Susan Cenkus at one time was a nurse at Bradley Central Hospital in Cleveland.
Christopher Dennison said his mother and the two children were on their way to attend his junior recital at Lee. Ms. Cenkus as well as her parents now live at Clyde, Ohio.
He thanked the media "for treating this delicate situation with all the respect and honor it deserves."
Rev. Gene Paul, father of Susan Cenkus, said it is "a close-knit family that has come together." He said the family had not spoken sooner because "we needed time to get over the initial shock."
Rev. Paul, a Church of God minister, said he and his wife were in Jacksonville, Fla., at his niece's home when they were told of the attack.
He said, "There has been so much prayer and support - not only from this area but from all across the United States."
Rev. Paul said Susan "is a wonderful, loving mother. She was willing to give her life for her children, and I think that speaks for herself."
Witnesses said Ms. Cenkus was mauled after she tried to fight off the bear, which had picked up her son in its mouth. Elora ran off during the incident, and her body was found about an hour later about 100 yards away with the bear standing over it.
Rev. Paul said, "We still have two. We have Luke and we have Susan. But we can't replace Elora. She's one in a million - a sweet girl. She's a treasure and God's taken that treasure."
Susan's younger sister, Beth, said Elora "just lit up a room when she entered."
She said she loved animals and had named their dog Violet. She said she especially loved dolphins.
Beth said, "I just don't know what we are going to do without her."
A fund has been started at First Tennessee Bank to benefit victims of the bear attack. The account will be used to pay the funeral expenses of Elora with additional funds being used for the medical expenses of Susan and Luke.
Funds will also be used for family travel expenses. Any funds left over will go to a trust for Luke.
To make a contribution to the fund, stop by any branch of First Tennessee or call 423 757-4011.
Or visit the First Tennessee Bank website
www.firsttennessee.com
Alligator
04-17-2006, 15:15
From Chattanoogan.com;
...He thanked the media "for treating this delicate situation with all the respect and honor it deserves."
...
Maybe some of the folks here could follow suit instead of using this tragic death as a soapbox.
Rest in peace little lady.
Big Foot
04-17-2006, 15:57
I doubt that bear would have attacked a group of adults if they knew what to do during a bear encounter. I think if I was bringing small children into the woods I would talk to them about what to do and not do if we see a bear and have bear spray along. Chances are 1 in a million you ever get to use it but it would probably save your child. Sounds like the bear wanted food and bear spray would have been enough to stop it.
bulldog49
04-17-2006, 16:13
Maybe some of the folks here could follow suit instead of using this tragic death as a soapbox.
Rest in peace little lady.
Well said Alligator. My thoughts exactly.
leeki pole
04-17-2006, 17:27
And not one person has even mentioned the true danger in the woods south of Virginia......fire ants! Coming soon to a meadow near you.
Almost There
04-17-2006, 22:50
Your post would make more sense if I had ever suggested that anyone shouldn't hike because of bears. I never even implied that. Regarding your analogy of driving, my position would be akin to suggesting that you wear your seat belt. Jack Tarlin ( and co.) are basically telling you not to wear your seat belt, there is no danger of ever crashing and getting injured, and your a chicken if you buckle up, and acknowledge the rules of the road.
I suggest that we all coolly acknowledge the potential for being attacked by a bear, while hiking in bear country, carrying food, in the spring time. Yes, the chances are small, but they are there.
After this rational acknowledgment, we adopt strategies to deal with this possibilty, should it arise.
Some of you choose to believe that bears are gentle harmless woodland creatures like faeries or wood nymphs. And I guess that's ok too, since thinning the herd is all part of the great natural cycle of life.:sun
Misunderstood your position, this makes more sense, and I agree we should always be aware of our surroundings. I was merely alluding to the fact that certain things are simply out of our hands...and dwelling on this does no good. Be educated and informed...and if a situation arises then deal with it.
oldfivetango
04-18-2006, 11:08
According to the news that I heard this morning, it's still not known what factors might have caused the bear to attack. My thoughts and condolences are with the family....very tragic.
Sorry folks,I just had to weigh in on why Mr Bear attacked.
1.He is a predator
2.He was hungry as it is still early in the spring
3.He may have felt threatened by the people
4.He attacked the children because they were small and easy(see
reason # 1)
5.He succeeded because the other mature adult homosapiens were not
prepared to deal with his assault-even though such assaults are admittedly very very rare.
6.The adults were not prepared to deal with the assault because of peer
pressure and denial.They and their friends do not condone firearms on the trail(nor do I for that matter) and they did not have anything else,like BEARSPRAY, to use because they were afraid they would be laughed at by their peers. They used sticks and threw a few rocks which was all they could find to use once the emergency presented itself.
7.Because they forgot the Boyscout rule and were unprepared a beautiful
little child is dead,her brother is seriously injured, and the mother will be
traumatized for the rest of her days.
8.Now we are all very sad that it happened but the fact will now and forever remain-it did.
OFT
Black Bear Captured; Officials Believe It Killed Clyde Girl
April 17, 2006 04:48 AM CDT
Black Bear Captured; Officials Believe It Killed Clyde Girl
NASHVILLE (AP) -- The US Forest Service captured a black bear Sunday, and they believe it is the one that killed a girl in a Tennessee park Thursday. A spokeswoman said the bear will be euthanized. Its body will then be sent to experts who'll determine if it's the bear that killed the girl and injured two members of her family.
According to the spokeswoman, the bear is the same size as the killer bear. She also pointed out that aren't many bears in the area that was quarantined after the attack.
The family had been at a pool below a waterfall in the Cherokee National Forest on Thursday afternoon when the bear attacked, the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency said. The 350- to 400-pound bear killed the 6-year-old girl, and critically injured her mother and 2-year-old brother.
Sources at Bellevue Hospital identified the mother as Sue Cenkus, an employee at the hospital. The family reportedly lives in Clyde, Ohio, about 40 miles east of Toledo. The hospital released a statement, saying in part that the hospital extends its deepest sympathies, and the family remains in its prayers.
Witnesses said the bear snatched up the boy in its mouth as the mother and other visitors at the Chilhowee campground tried to fend it off with sticks and rocks. The girl ran away, but was later found dead about 100 yards down a trail. When her body was found, a bear was standing over her, authorities said.
It's been reported that one of the rescue squad members who responded to the emergency fired a shot at the bear from a small caliber handgun -- but, because there was no blood, it was unclear if the bear was hit. Officials said the shot caused the bear to run away.
Officials are still trying to piece together exactly what happened to spur the attack. Rangers said the animal might have been suffering from a disease that affected its behavior. "It's a pretty rare thing, black bears generally don't attack people," said park ranger Monty Williams.
The mother and boy were listed in critical condition Friday at a Chattanooga hospital, but both are expected to recover. The boy had puncture wounds on his head and claw marks on his body. The mother also suffered puncture wounds when she was picked up and dragged by the bear.
The attack occurred in an isolated mountainous area, 10 miles from the nearest highway, in the 640,000-acre national forest, which runs along the Tennessee-North Carolina line southwest of Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Authorities first tried to search the rugged terrain for the bear, but called off that effort early Friday to concentrate on trying to trap the animal in a 1,000-acre area around the campground.
The campground had only six of its 88 campsites filled at the time of the attack, officials said. Terry McDonald of the US Forest Service said the family members were believed to be day visitors, not overnight campers. The campground was evacuated after the attack.
Officials said there have been 42 bear sightings in the area in the past couple of weeks, but this is the time of year when bears are usually active. In May 2000, a woman was killed by a black bear near Gatlinburg. Glena Ann Bradley, a schoolteacher from Cosby, was attacked by two female bears when she took a walk on a trail near a Smoky Mountains campground.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Moral of the story:
Don't bring sticks and rocks to a bear fight, bring a gun.
If only the mother had been properly armed, her child, and the bear might be alive today.
Let's all learn this lesson, and apply it in the future.
Moral of the story:
Don't bring sticks and rocks to a bear fight, bring a gun.
If only the mother had been properly armed, her child, and the bear might be alive today.
Let's all learn this lesson, and apply it in the future.
Sick person...
Panzer
Preliminary test results fail to confirm bear was killer
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD
Associated Press Writer
<!--ARTICLE BODY TEXT-->KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Preliminary results from a forensic examination failed to establish a captured black bear was responsible for the death of a 6-year-old girl and injuries to her mother and brother, officials said Tuesday.
Tissue and hair samples collected from a necropsy completed Monday at the University of Tennessee Veterinary School will undergo further tests.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=305 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD width=10 rowSpan=3></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER></CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Meanwhile, trapping will continue around the Cherokee National Forest swimming hole in southeast Tennessee where Elora Petrasek of Clyde, Ohio, was fatally mauled and her mother, Susan Cenkus, 45, and 2-year-old brother Luke Cenkus were injured in the bear attack April 13.
"No obvious evidence was detected during the necropsy ... to positively identify the bear as the one that attacked the Ohio family last Thursday afternoon," the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency said in a statement.
The suspected male bear was captured three days after the attack not far from the swimming hole.
Tests showed the bear, which was euthanized, did not have rabies.
The bear weighed 203 pounds, slightly above average for a grown male, according to experts.
Overall, the bear was in "good condition for a bear coming out of hibernation," TWRA spokesman Don King said. "There were good fat deposits within the muscles, which would indicate a healthy animal. It wasn't emaciated or starving to death."
An examination of the bear's digestive system found no evidence of human remains or clothing, UT spokeswoman Sandra Harbison said. Pathologist Robert Donnell said Monday before the exam that too much time may have elapsed since the attack to find such traces.
However, tissue samples were being sent off for further study in search of human DNA.
Also, additional studies to match the bear's DNA on fur samples collected from the victims and in the attack area were planned.
Bob Miller, spokesman for Great Smoky Mountains National Park, which borders the Cherokee National Forest, said DNA testing can take a while. "This isn't like sending it off to Fotomat," he said.
Donnell said Monday that DNA testing could take seven to 10 days, and microscopic analysis could take four to six weeks.
Meanwhile, authorities aren't sure if they caught and killed the right bear.
"We won't know conclusively for a number of days," King said Tuesday. "We are doing our best to get the samples to the proper places and allow them to do their testing on the materials."
A second bear caught Tuesday in the traps baited with doughnuts and honey buns is being held alive until all the test results are back on the first bear, the TWRA said
"We are in the process of removing all traps except those in the immediate vicinity of the attack," said Les Jones, TWRA area supervisor.
The attack was only second fatal black bear attack in Tennessee in modern times -- a woman day hiking in the Smokies was killed in 2000 -- and only the 56th in the past 100 years in North America, officials said.
Officials suspect the bear that mauled the Ohio family was hungry, just waking from winter hibernation, and looking for food. They called it a likely predatory attack, not the result of some provocation by the victims.
Dr. Joe Clark, a research ecologist and bear expert with the U.S. Geological Survey, said, "Bears are large powerful wild animals and they do things that wild animals will do."
However, he said, "This is a very rare thing. I would hate for one animal to give the whole species a bad name. These things happen."
6.The adults were not prepared to deal with the assault because of peer
pressure and denial.They and their friends do not condone firearms on the trail(nor do I for that matter) and they did not have anything else,like BEARSPRAY, to use because they were afraid they would be laughed at by their peers. They used sticks and threw a few rocks which was all they could find to use once the emergency presented itself.
OFT
With all due respect OFT, since you were not there and have not cited a report backing these statements up, I would reserve this type of judgement for some other time. I recognize the importance of learning strategies to deal with potentially fatal situations, but lets stick to the real facts here. My condolences to the family in this difficult time.
Sick person...
Panzer
No, smart person.
Let's go over the facts again:
The bear attacked,a human, even though most of the people on this board insist that they never attack us.
The bear killed a little girl, and mauled a little boy, when the tactics espoused by the gun-haters on this board were used. (The bear is more scared of you, pick up a rock or stick, blah blah blah...)
The bear attack was stopped when a firearm was employed. (The smart approach)
Thanks to a culture that refuses to take responsibility for self defense, and insists on avoiding the real possibilities of a wild animal or human attack, a little girl is dead, a little boy is mauled, and a bear (now maybe two) will be hunted down and killed.
If saner heads had prevailed, that woman would have been armed, and her children would be alive. A warning shot may have deterred the bear, or a killing shot would have saved the girls life, and the life of the innocent bear that I now hear has been killed by mistake.
No armed hiker has ever killed another hiker on the AT, either intentionally, or by mistake, yet you people are more scared of the inanimate object than the big hairy predator, who has millions of years of evolution and instinct teling it to actually act like a bear....and hunt.
Yes, I know bears are omnivores, but those canines are not just for show. Just ask the "Bear Whisperer" AKA "Grizzly Man" how sweet and misunderstood bears are. I doubt you will get much of a response from him, as he is now bear scat, thanks to his "friends". You could ask his gullible girlfriend too, but will get the same reply. (Yes, I know black bears and grizzlies are different. Black bears attack more often.)
Just look at the statistics, and you will see that bear attacks have risen in each of the last 5 decades.
The number of bear attacks in North America has gone up in the past 50 years, mostly, says Herrero, because more and more people are working, camping, and hiking in what was their turf for many years. Ten people were killed in the 1950s, 14 in the '60s, 22 in the '70s, 27 in the '80s, 29 in the '90s
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/25/coolsc.critters.attacks/
Last time I checked, bears still act like bears, can't read maps to tell if they are on the AT or not, and occasionally attack people.
Cougars also act like cougars, and wild dogs suprisingly act like wild dogs.
Rapists and murderers also seem to still be around, and shouting and banging pans together seems to have no effect on them.
As somebody who hikes with my year old son, pictured here:
http://www.fototime.com/{D8AC9CF2-F98A-4C26-BAEB-8A25D5004BAF}/picture.JPG
and here:
http://www.fototime.com/{6902E9A1-115D-4206-B854-927CFC9EA2D6}/picture.JPG
He would be seen as easy prey to a carnivore preparing for, or coming out of hibernation, I choose to be a good parent and father, and do everything in my power to make sure he comes home un-mauled after enjoying the woods. The prescence of a firearm, as a last resort, has absolutely zero impact on the trail, or my fellow hikers, or the peaceful wildlife.
KirkMcquest
04-19-2006, 14:26
Sorry folks,I just had to weigh in on why Mr Bear attacked.
1.He is a predator
2.He was hungry as it is still early in the spring
3.He may have felt threatened by the people
4.He attacked the children because they were small and easy(see
reason # 1)
5.He succeeded because the other mature adult homosapiens were not
prepared to deal with his assault-even though such assaults are admittedly very very rare.
6.The adults were not prepared to deal with the assault because of peer
pressure and denial.They and their friends do not condone firearms on the trail(nor do I for that matter) and they did not have anything else,like BEARSPRAY, to use because they were afraid they would be laughed at by their peers. They used sticks and threw a few rocks which was all they could find to use once the emergency presented itself.
7.Because they forgot the Boyscout rule and were unprepared a beautiful
little child is dead,her brother is seriously injured, and the mother will be
traumatized for the rest of her days.
8.Now we are all very sad that it happened but the fact will now and forever remain-it did.
OFT
..........here,here!
Blue Jay
04-19-2006, 18:56
Yes, I know black bears and grizzlies are different. Black bears attack more often.[/QUOTE]
This is pure BS, where did you come up with this. I could care less if you carry a gun or whatever it takes to keep you out from under your bed. The simple fact is that the bear was being harassed prior to the attack. Another group has admitted to doing so. The simple fact is a gun was not needed just some simple intelligence. Adding one more danger to a group of fools does not help anything.
generoll
04-19-2006, 19:14
BJ, what is the source of that charge? Please provide a reference.
KirkMcquest
04-19-2006, 20:16
Sounds like alot of BS.
Pacific Tortuga
04-19-2006, 20:31
[quote=JLB]No, smart person.
Let's go over the facts again:
The bear attacked,a human, even though most of the people on this board insist that they never attack us.
The bear killed a little girl, and mauled a little boy, when the tactics espoused by the gun-haters on this board were used. (The bear is more scared of you, pick up a rock or stick, blah blah blah...)
Gun-haters, my bass just hope you didn't go to the 'Cheney School of Shooting' and not wing me.... make it a clean shot.
KirkMcquest
04-19-2006, 20:59
I don't know why all the fear about guns. A gun is a tool like any other. For those of you that hate guns out there, the implication seems to be that human beings on the whole, are not responsible or intelligent enough to be trusted with a gun. You'd rather have all the power to defend us rest in the hands of someone else, who most likely won't be around when you need them. Pacific T is 100% correct, had those people been carrying a fire arm (with a little know-how), this tragedy would likely have been avoided.
Guns are a tool. People will do bad things in the world with or without them. In regards to thru-hiking, though, I can't see carrying the extra weight of a firearm. A little bear spray is extremely light, effective, and even better, non-lethal.
To those who carry weapons to defend themselves in the woods I say good for you. For those who carry bearspray, good for you. For those of you who rely on these measures as your best defence against a bear encounter, educate yourselves in proven strategies to avoid problem situations. Only then will you truly have a complete strategy in place. IMHO if you have to use the weapon or spray to protect yourself against a bear, then you have failed to take measures to avoid the confrontation in the first place. This is of course in regards to East Coast black bear territory.
Just look at the statistics, and you will see that bear attacks have risen in each of the last 5 decades. I clicked on the link after this comment and it hardly made me feel more vulnerable today than back in 1981 in regards to black bear attacks. Considering that the figure is in regards to all bear attacks in all of North America, I would say it actually makes me feel less vulnerable. People often talk about how safe they feel in their small town, the AT is WAY more safe than that. Too much grandstanding going on about something that is about a personal comfort zone.:sun
KirkMcquest
04-19-2006, 21:24
To those who carry weapons to defend themselves in the woods I say good for you. For those who carry bearspray, good for you. For those of you who rely on these measures as your best defence against a bear encounter, educate yourselves in proven strategies to avoid problem situations. Only then will you truly have a complete strategy in place. IMHO if you have to use the weapon or spray to protect yourself against a bear, then you have failed to take measures to avoid the confrontation in the first place. This is of course in regards to East Coast black bear territory. I clicked on the link after this comment and it hardly made me feel more vulnerable today than back in 1981 in regards to black bear attacks. Considering that the figure is in regards to all bear attacks in all of North America, I would say it actually makes me feel less vulnerable. People often talk about how safe they feel in their small town, the AT is WAY more safe than that. Too much grandstanding going on about something that is about a personal comfort zone.:sun
Ed I agree with you 80%. Although how you choose to defend yourself is your choice, I don't think that its strictly a 'personal comfort zone'. What feels comfortable may not be effective, feeling safe has nothing to do with BEING safe. Also, the argument can be made that not doing everything to protect yourself froma bear puts ALL bears in danger of reprisal and is therefore, irresponsible.
How is it not a personal comfort zone in regards to personal safety, Kirk? Are you saying that you employ ALL recommended non-weapon measures to avoid bear conflicts? And on top of that do you also carry bearspray, a hunting knife and a large calliber handgun on ALL of your day and overnight trips? Do you research all local bear activity reports to avoid high bear activity areas? Are you keenly aware of local bear hybernation patterns and food source problems? You seem to be implying that those who do not use ALL of the tactics stated above are actually doing harm to bears. I can't find any reason to agree with that conclusion. Like I have said before, concentrating on threats that are VERY low on the probability scale takes away from more realistic threats.
KirkMcquest
04-19-2006, 22:18
How is it not a personal comfort zone in regards to personal safety, Kirk? Are you saying that you employ ALL recommended non-weapon measures to avoid bear conflicts? And on top of that do you also carry bearspray, a hunting knife and a large calliber handgun on ALL of your day and overnight trips? Do you research all local bear activity reports to avoid high bear activity areas? Are you keenly aware of local bear hybernation patterns and food source problems? You seem to be implying that those who do not use ALL of the tactics stated above are actually doing harm to bears. I can't find any reason to agree with that conclusion. Like I have said before, concentrating on threats that are VERY low on the probability scale takes away from more realistic threats.
I understand your point, and I stand corrected. I think we are saying the same thing.
Moral of the story:
Don't bring sticks and rocks to a bear fight, bring a gun.
If only the mother had been properly armed, her child, and the bear might be alive today.
Let's all learn this lesson, and apply it in the future.
How on earth do you suppose that a mother with 2 small children can be "properly armed"? How can she care for 2 small children and at the same time have a loaded gun in her possession?
How is it that you think that everybody is supposed to be able to defend themselves? Most people rely on others to defend them.
Panzer
KirkMcquest
04-19-2006, 23:39
Most people rely on others to defend them.
Panzer
Big mistake
Big mistake
Small children cannot be expected to defend themselves.
The elderly cannot be expected to defend themselves.
The sick cannot be expected to defend themselves.
Most women cannot be expected to defend themselves.
That's most people. Are you saying these people are making a "big mistake" by not being able to defend themselves??
Panzer
KirkMcquest
04-20-2006, 00:14
I'll give you the small children thing. I know alot of women who will take offense to that exaggerated generalization. As far as the sick and old, I guess its a matter of degrees. With the invention of the firearm, I'd say the vast majority of adults can effectively defend themselves.
And as far as your question about how a mom is supposed to carry a firearm while watching her kids, ever hear of a holster??
I say by giving people the means to defend themselves, they will. Let's not turn this into rocket science.
Did your mom carry a gun when you were a child??
Panzer
KirkMcquest
04-20-2006, 00:52
Did your mom carry a gun when you were a child??
Panzer
I don't know, she was mauled by a bear when I was 5. She was unarmed.
[quote=KirkMcquest]
And as far as your question about how a mom is supposed to carry a firearm while watching her kids, ever hear of a holster??[quote]
How is the mom in question supposed to wear a holster while occasionally having to carry a 2 year child? You have a strange view of motherhood if you are advocating mothers to wear a holster while carrying around their 2 year olds.
Panzer
longshank
04-20-2006, 10:55
Kirk:
I'll respond to your semi-literate, inordianately stupid comments later. I don't have the time or the leisure right now....I'm hiking, and your pudgy citified ass is fno doubt flounced behind a desk at home or more likely at work, and can sound off whenever you wish. I don't have that option.
(Incidentally, what I SAID (quite awhile ago by the way) was that bear attacks in the East were extraordinarily rare, and almost never occur. And guess what? This is still true. The fact that one just took place doesn't change this.....there have been almost NO bear fatalities in the East in the past 50 years, and recent developments doesn't mean things have changed.....if Kirk seems to think this week's bizarre incident means that the woods are filled with legions of homicidal bears, well, he's delusional, and he should stay in Brooklyn with his fears).
The chances of a bear attack on or near the A.T were and STILL ARE minimal. Extremely minimal. Got that, Kirk? If you'd actually spent any real time on the A.T., of course, you'd know this...but you haven't, right? Care to admit it?
What happened is obviously a tragedy, and a very rare one.
If Kirk wants to score Intenet points off of a child's death, he can have at it.
The fact remains thus: There have been a minute (that means really small, Kirk) number of bear attacks on human beings in the East in the last seventy years. Repeat, a minute ammount. On the A.T., nothing....zip, nada, nothing, OK?
One has a greater risk of being attacked in one's home, school, or workplace than of being attacked by a bear on the A.T. Wine stewards or waiters at cheesy New York restaurants have a greater chance of encountering violence than hikers on the A.T...... but then, one would have to get out of New York to realize this. Wanna tell us about something you know about, Kirk?
Kirk's hand-wringing and fear-mongering is wrong, ill-informed, and butt-ignorant. He doesn't know jack-diddly about the Appalachial Trail.
Geez, enough. I'm hiking right now....I don't have the time or leisure to deal with this Internet bull****. Fire away, Kirk, it'll be a few days till I can get back to you (I'm hiking, sonny; you're more than likely at a computer at work in the upstairs office cheating on your employer).
What happened was a crazy, freak episode. If Kirk wants to pretend otherwise, he's merely proving he knows less know less about the Trail than we've been led to believe.
Bye, Kirk. Hope city life is treating you well.
When you wanna talk about reality in the hill country, why not come out and see it for yourself sometime, OK?
Meantime, stay in the city and be afraid.
Fear becomes you.
I find it very interesting that you seem to know the comings and goings of someone, some people, even, that you have never met. If your highness would step out of the over-inflated, ego-addled royal hot air balloon that your brain calls home, then procede to dislodge it from your anal orifice, perhaps you might have something to say that was worth listening to. Just because you seem to have acquired some sort of minor niche celebrity does not make you a bear behavioralist (which is abundantly clear from your comments on the subject), nor does it bestow upon you some innate knowledge of of the level of experience those beside your self have accquired. You really think that you know it all, don't you? I think it would be of timely benefit to your character as percieved by others if you stoppped berating people and painting them as idiots for disagreeing with you. And I would think you would be less inclined to bash people who live in a city whilst enrobed in a moniker such as "Baltimore Jack". I wasn't aware that the great city of Baltimore had a backcountry. And you can call my retaurant cheesy once you've saved enough rainy day pennies (it might take you awhile, Jack...we don't accept barter as a form of currency, so leave your hogs and firstborn daughter at home.) to actually afford to eat there and do.
longshank
04-20-2006, 11:02
All's well, Sly.....knee is behaving much better than expected, and no Philistine bears bent on murder, rapine, or pillage.
Happily, no pussified Brooklynite weekenders either, and their assorted bleating and weeping trail terrors. Life's too short. Actually, would prefer the risks of priodic bear encounters over nervous, twitchy New Yorkers.
The bears at least shut the f*** up after you shoo them away.
Happy Easter, see you at Trail's end.
Come to brooklyn and I'll show you how pussified we are here. "Pussified brooklynite" is an oxymoron. Or maybe you are. Or maybe just a moron.
I don't know, she was mauled by a bear when I was 5. She was unarmed.
Good answer!!!!
Panzer
bulldog49
04-20-2006, 11:53
Come to brooklyn and I'll show you how pussified we are here. "Pussified brooklynite" is an oxymoron. Or maybe you are. Or maybe just a moron.
Now there is an intelligent retort, (for a 6th grader). Learn that from your uncle/dad and aunt/mom shanks?
Pacific Tortuga
04-20-2006, 12:22
[quote=longshank] (it might take you awhile, Jack...we don't accept barter as a form of currency, so leave your hogs and firstborn daughter at home.)
Least we forget the family attacked lost their FIRSTBORN daughter. What has happened to the respect and integrity of a life,human or of the natural world? Imbrace your diifferances with the class of our community because if we can't do it here, God Bless America.
KirkMcquest
04-20-2006, 15:52
Good answer!!!!
Panzer
I was overcome with emotion when the memory resurfaced.
If only she had been carrying a FIREARM or BEARSPRAY, things might have been different.
leeki pole
04-20-2006, 16:55
I was overcome with emotion when the memory resurfaced.
If only she had been carrying a FIREARM or BEARSPRAY, things might have been different.
My wife never goes in the woods without some kind of defense. Of course, because we're just Mississippi rednecks, she can shoot the x-ring out of a 100 yard target with open sights. Forewarned, be forearmed. And that's why we've been happily married for a LONG time (see x-ring comment)! :)
Pacific Tortuga
04-20-2006, 19:00
My wife never goes in the woods without some kind of defense. Of course, because we're just Mississippi rednecks, she can shoot the x-ring out of a 100 yard target with open sights. Forewarned, be forearmed. And that's why we've been happily married for a LONG time (see x-ring comment)! :)
Thats just the old say'in "a family that shoots together stays together" of course thats not my kind of shot,cheers :rolleyes:
Yes, I know black bears and grizzlies are different. Black bears attack more often.
This is pure BS, where did you come up with this.
Let me educate you:
There are far more black bears that come in contact with humans than grizzlies.
Do the math, and you will understand why black bears attack more often.
There is also this:
RISKS FROM GRIZZLY VERSUS BLACK BEARS
Stephen Herrero is professor emeritus of environmental science at the University of Calgary. He has done research on bear ecology, behavior, conservation, and attacks for over 30 years. He is author of the classic book, “Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance”.
Stephen Herrero: “Over the past 33 years, I’ve studied serious and fatal injuries inflicted by bears to people throughout North America. The data clearly show that although bear attacks are rare, grizzly bears are more dangerous than black bears. Most serious and fatal grizzly bear attacks are defensive, while such attacks by black bears are typically predacious. Your response to a bear encounter shouldn’t just depend on whether it’s a black or a grizzly bear but on the circumstances and the bears behavior.”
http://www.bearinfo.org/bearsafetyscript.htm#DIFFERENCES%20BETWEEN%20GRIZZ LY%20AND%20BLACK%20BEARS
"Predacious" means this:
predacious
adj 1: hunting and killing other animals for food [syn: predaceous (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=predaceous)]
Go look it up.
I could care less if you carry a gun or whatever it takes to keep you out from under your bed.
That's good, but I don't need your validation.
The simple fact is that the bear was being harassed prior to the attack. Another group has admitted to doing so. The simple fact is a gun was not needed just some simple intelligence. Adding one more danger to a group of fools does not help anything.
A gun was needed, as a gun is what drove the bear away, possibly saving more lives.
The fact that some idiot was harrassing the bear does not negate the fact that once the bear decided to attack, then the anti-gun solution was obsolete.
Let's all learn from this lesson, and take steps to save our selves, our family members, and the innocent bears that are now being killed.
[quote=JLB]No, smart person.
Let's go over the facts again:
The bear attacked,a human, even though most of the people on this board insist that they never attack us.
The bear killed a little girl, and mauled a little boy, when the tactics espoused by the gun-haters on this board were used. (The bear is more scared of you, pick up a rock or stick, blah blah blah...)
Gun-haters, my bass just hope you didn't go to the 'Cheney Scool of Shooting' and not wing me.... make it a clean shot.
It's spelled "school".
If you are going to attempt to make fun of someone, at least make sure you can spell the words correctly.
As for not "winging you", it's very simple:
Behave yourself, and you won't ever find yourself in a situation where you will need to be shot. That way everybody is happy.
To those who carry weapons to defend themselves in the woods I say good for you. For those who carry bearspray, good for you. For those of you who rely on these measures as your best defence against a bear encounter, educate yourselves in proven strategies to avoid problem situations. Only then will you truly have a complete strategy in place. IMHO if you have to use the weapon or spray to protect yourself against a bear, then you have failed to take measures to avoid the confrontation in the first place. This is of course in regards to East Coast black bear territory. I clicked on the link after this comment and it hardly made me feel more vulnerable today than back in 1981 in regards to black bear attacks. Considering that the figure is in regards to all bear attacks in all of North America, I would say it actually makes me feel less vulnerable. People often talk about how safe they feel in their small town, the AT is WAY more safe than that. Too much grandstanding going on about something that is about a personal comfort zone.:sun
The facts are these:
Bears don't know if they are on the AT, or not.
There is no signed truce between bears and hikers that I am aware of.
Urban sprawl, and the reduction of bear hunting has created larger bear populations in continually shrinking habitats.
It's no suprise that bear attacks are up.
Blue Jay
04-20-2006, 19:52
JBL your "quote" said nothing about black bears attacking more often than Grizzlies. There has never been a study or statistics of any kind that indicate that they do because it is laughable (as are you).
Read your own post please. Baltimore Jack and I live in areas where black bears live. Often there are bears in my back yard. I have hiked and camped all my life in areas where bears live. I've seen hundreds of them. The only bears you see in Florida are on the bed you hide under. Again, if you want to live in fear and carry your little gun around go ahead.
How on earth do you suppose that a mother with 2 small children can be "properly armed"? How can she care for 2 small children and at the same time have a loaded gun in her possession?
How is it that you think that everybody is supposed to be able to defend themselves? Most people rely on others to defend them.
Panzer
My wife seems to manage just fine.
When I am around, she relies on me, but when I'm not there, the burden of protecting the kids falls on her.
When she isn't there, then my son takes up the responsibility, as a last resort. He's been shooting since he was 5 years old, and has been taught proper safety rules, and shooting techniques.
http://www.fototime.com/{83EFA10F-2087-4D8A-9B44-BE6BB28F46AF}/picture.JPG
http://www.fototime.com/{55691851-B2A8-4751-BA7F-912D05E9859F}/picture.JPG
That's his Smith & Wesson Model 34 .22 revolver but he regularly shoots my Model 66 .357 magnum, and is quite proficient with it.
JBL your "quote" said nothing about black bears attacking more often than Grizzlies. There has never been a study or statistics of any kind that indicate that they do because it is laughable (as are you).
Read your own post please. Baltimore Jack and I live in areas where black bears live. Often there are bears in my back yard. I have hiked and camped all my life in areas where bears live. I've seen hundreds of them. The only bears you see in Florida are on the bed you hide under. Again, if you want to live in fear and carry your little gun around go ahead.
Again, let me educate you:
Take a look at this picture.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/images/883040423
We had 143 black bears that were struck and killed by cars in 2004. That's not total bears, but just those that wandered onto the highway. I see bears all of the time when I camp in Florida, so you need to read up.
JBL your "quote" said nothing about black bears attacking more often than Grizzlies. There has never been a study or statistics of any kind that indicate that they do because it is laughable (as are you).
Except for this study, you mean?
Experts revisit advice on bear attacks
Don’t play dead, they say; doing so can get you killed
By Dru Sefton
NEWHOUSE NEWS SERVICE
OCT. 1 — When the grizzly charged, Patricia Van Tighem did what hikers
have always been told to do. First, she scampered up a tree. The bear batted
her down. Then she lay still on the ground, playing dead. The bear began
gnawing on her face, ripping skin and muscle from her skull. Van Tighem
finally did something she wasn’t supposed to do: She reached up and poked the
bear in the nose. The bear retreated.
“STAYING STILL didn’t work,” said Van Tighem, whose new book, “The Bear’s
Embrace,” details the grueling 20-year physical and mental aftermath of the
attack on her and her husband. “If I kept playing dead, I would have been
dead.”
The common advice always has been — and still is — that if you’re
threatened by a grizzly, play dead; if you’re threatened by a black bear,
fight back. But a summer of attacks involving not only fierce grizzlies but
also normally docile black bears has some experts questioning those
approaches.
The issue becomes more important as bear populations increase and
human-bear conflicts, the term that researchers use for these sometimes
violent interactions, become less rare.
Gee, that's just what I just said...... :banana
continued....
In late May, a black bear preyed upon hiker Glenda Ann Bradley about
10 miles outside Gatlinburg, Tenn. It was the first recorded black bear
fatality in the history of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Then, early in July, Canadian biathlete Mary Beth Miller was killed by
a black bear outside Quebec City.
After that, human-bear conflicts made news all summer:
Black bears clawed or bit four Boy Scouts in July at the Philmont Scout
Ranch in northeastern New Mexico.
In August, two backpackers were charged by a bear of undetermined species in
Glacier National Park in Montana. One was bitten on the thighs and hips.
Also in August, a Calgary, Alberta, man was mauled by a grizzly in the
Kananaskis Country of Canada’s Rockies. It was the second incident in 12
hours; those were the first attacks there in 22 years.
In September, attacks have been reported in Clam Falls, Wis.; Hoonah,
Alaska; Grand Junction, Colo.; Anchorage; McLeod Lake, British Columbia; and
Yellowstone National Park.
“Conflict is increasing all over,” said Gary Shelton, who has studied
bears for 35 years and written two books considered to be the seminal works
on bear aggression. “What’s happening is bear attacks are taking place where
they haven’t before, there’s a higher level of fatalities, and there are
more deadly attacks by black bears.”
http://www.bears.org/pipermail/bearfolks/2000-October/000447.html
Pacific Tortuga
04-20-2006, 20:23
[quote=Pacific Tortuga]
It's spelled "school".
If you are going to attempt to make fun of someone, at least make sure you can spell the words correctly.
As for not "winging you", it's very simple:
Behave yourself, and you won't ever find yourself in a situation where you will need to be shot. That way everybody is happy.
Now I'm scared, hate to rile you up 'you' too smart, now go and ..... no I'm not going to go there. "Behave yourself" I know that wasn't a threat, again your too smart for that. Thanks for the edit heads up and the day you ....... WHAT A CROCK. I do agree with some of your statements just dont know why you have to act like the north end of a mule walking south.
The facts are these:
Bears don't know if they are on the AT, or not.
There is no signed truce between bears and hikers that I am aware of.
Urban sprawl, and the reduction of bear hunting has created larger bear populations in continually shrinking habitats.
It's no suprise that bear attacks are up.
C'mon JLB everyone knows bears don't care where they are, and a black bear is capable of attack. What are you trying to tell me? My comment you replied to doesn't contradict anything here. Hell, backcountry and National park usage surely has more than doubled since 1950, so I guess bear attacks are actually declining relative to usage. I don't have a stat on this but I doubt the GSMNP had 8 million visitors in 1950. All I was saying in my post is that there are many strategies to prevent a bear encounter from turning ugly or from even occuring at all. I want everyone to be safe, that's all I care about. I have never wanted to get inside peoples packs and tell them what to carry or not carry. I called your post out because the article link you included in your previous post did not seem to validate your remarks. I am left wondering if you actually read it. Oh, and I realize that the CNN article you included in your post was originally posted by someone else. One last thought, black bears and hikers/backpackers are not in a relationship that I would consider war. Maybe you do, but millions upon millions of backcountry visitors enjoy the woods without this mindset, and this does not mean I view a bear as a zero threat. Hope this clears up your misunderstanding of my post.
[quote=JLB]
Now I'm scared, hate to rile you up 'you' too smart, now go and ..... no I'm not going to go there. "Behave yourself" I know that wasn't a threat, again your too smart for that. Thanks for the edit heads up and the day you ....... WHAT A CROCK. I do agree with some of your statements just dont know why you have to act like the north end of a mule walking south.
It wasn't a threat at all. If you, or anyone else never attempts to do me, or any of my family members harm, then you will never have any problem with me.
Thanks for the edit heads up and the day you ....... WHAT A CROCK.
That statement makes no sense. Explain.
C'mon JLB everyone knows bears don't care where they are, and a black bear is capable of attack. What are you trying to tell me? My comment you replied to doesn't contradict anything here. Hell, backcountry and National park usage surely has more than doubled since 1950, so I guess bear attacks are actually declining relative to usage. I don't have a stat on this but I doubt the GSMNP had 8 million visitors in 1950. All I was saying in my post is that there are many strategies to prevent a bear encounter from turning ugly or from even occuring at all. I want everyone to be safe, that's all I care about. I have never wanted to get inside peoples packs and tell them what to carry or not carry. I called your post out because the article link you included in your previous post did not seem to validate your remarks. I am left wondering if you actually read it. Oh, and I realize that the CNN article you included in your post was originally posted by someone else. One last thought, black bears and hikers/backpackers are not in a relationship that I would consider war. Maybe you do, but millions upon millions of backcountry visitors enjoy the woods without this mindset, and this does not mean I view a bear as a zero threat. Hope this clears up your misunderstanding of my post.
I think you misunderstood me first.
I did not intend that black bears are more aggressive than grizzlies, but that you are far more likely to be attacked by a blacky, due to the number of them.
The naturalist above, that I quoted, does point out that black bears are more predacious than grizzlies, who tend to attack to protect something. Black bears attack to hunt, on occassion.
I'm not at war with bears, but until bears turn in their teeth and claws, and disarm themselves, I'll continue to try and even the odds, should a bear declare war on me. :rolleyes:
Blue Jay
04-21-2006, 10:11
Except for this study, you mean?
That's not a study, moron, it's an article. Have you graduated from second grade yet?
Except for this study, you mean?
“Conflict is increasing all over,” said Gary Shelton, who has studied
bears for 35 years and written two books considered to be the seminal works
on bear aggression. “What’s happening is bear attacks are taking place where
they haven’t before, there’s a higher level of fatalities, and there are
more deadly attacks by black bears.”
....
I think what that article is saying is that there are more black bear attacks now than there used to be, not that there are more black bear attacks than grizzly bear attacks. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
I think what that article is saying is that there are more black bear attacks now than there used to be, not that there are more black bear attacks than grizzly bear attacks. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
What an article "says" is anecdotal. What a study "says" is evidence based. In other words, there is a world of difference between the two.
The media loves to play up these stories though. It strikes fear into our hearts. People don't let their kids out of their sight because they are afraid of "stranger danger" and attacks by mountain lions & bears. Fact is, abductions of children have not increased in the last 30 years. I don't have the data, but I believe abductions have actually decreased. That doesn't stop parents from not allowing their children out of their sight. And if attacks by black bears & mountain lions have increased, it is statistically insignificant (have at it Alligator!), Fact is, kids are still far safer on the trail than they are riding with Mom & dad in the family car. But, you create your own reality.
Statistically speaking, on the AT you probably have an equal or better chance of being assaulted and seriously injured (or killed) by a 63 year old grandmother named Belinda as you do a Black Bear.
What an article "says" is anecdotal. What a study "says" is evidence based. In other words, there is a world of difference between the two.
I know, that's why I used the word article and not study. ;)
In either case though, it said nothing about black bear attacks being more frequent than grizzly attacks.
And I'll have to watch out for Old Belinda... she sounds scary!:eek:
saimyoji
04-21-2006, 21:45
The media loves to play up these stories though. It strikes fear into our hearts. People don't let their kids out of their sight because they are afraid of "stranger danger" and attacks by mountain lions & bears. Fact is, abductions of children have not increased in the last 30 years. I don't have the data, but I believe abductions have actually decreased.
Hmmm...I would suggest that the walls to the entrance to Wallmart would disagree with you. OTOH, I do agree that the abductions are more visible now with the 24/7 need for breaking news by the mass media, Amber alerts, milk carton ads (which seem to have diminished, I guess people get put off by reading about missing children so early in the morning). I do agree that the chances of your child being abducted on the trail, especially by a black bear, are less than in the city, at least in the city I live in.
longshank
04-26-2006, 13:02
Now there is an intelligent retort, (for a 6th grader). Learn that from your uncle/dad and aunt/mom shanks?
I wasn't going for mature or intelligent on that one. I'm glad you picked up on that, Dick Tracy...
Hmmm...I would suggest that the walls to the entrance to Wallmart would disagree with you. OTOH, I do agree that the abductions are more visible now with the 24/7 need for breaking news by the mass media, Amber alerts, milk carton ads (which seem to have diminished, I guess people get put off by reading about missing children so early in the morning). I do agree that the chances of your child being abducted on the trail, especially by a black bear, are less than in the city, at least in the city I live in.
A couple of observations.
You ought to get your statistics about child abduction from somewhere other than Wal Mart. In fact, I'd suggest you get your shopping items from somewhere else, unless you like driving up the federal trade deficit.
What percentage of the kids on the milk cartons and the walls of Wal Mart were abducted by family members as opposed to strangers?
How many children have been abducted by strangers in your town - no - make it your county in the last 20 years? How about in the entire state of PA?
THis is from Court TVs Crime Library;
Child Abduction - The Facts
The most reliable research available indicates that there are only 100-130 cases of stranger abductions a year in the United States. These events are most frequently committed by males (86%) who are between the ages of 20 and 39 (57%). Again, the child was taken from an outdoor area in 54% of the cases but in 16% of the cases, the victim was abducted from his own yard or home. In the wider category of non-family abduction, NISMART found that 71% of the victims were taken from an outdoor area. In stereotypical kidnappings, less than 7% were taken from a store or mall. Stranger abduction events are usually committed for sexual purposes (49%) and in over 40% of the cases, the victim was murdered. That is in addition to the 4%, like Etan Patz in New York City, that have never been found.
The F.B.I. handled 93 cases of stranger abductions cases in 2001. That figure is actually a decrease from years past, especially during the 1980s when the average per year hovered around 200 incidents a year. Though the victim in most of these cases did not know the suspect, there was previous contact between them prior to the crime. This contact was usually a brief visual observation that took place while the suspect had a legitimate reason for being where he was. Those reasons included work related activities, such as a home delivery, a store clerk, a drive-by, in a park or sporting event. In over 85% of the cases, the child was kept within 50 miles of the abduction location and most frequently (28%), the victim was held in the home of the suspect.
The duration of a kidnapping episode was usually less than 24 hours (90%). Only less than 10% lasted longer than one day. Non-family abductions showed the same patterns though 30% lasted less than even 3 hours. The most dramatic difference between non-family abductions and kidnappings was in the treatment of the victim. In 99% of non-family abductions, the child was returned alive. In kidnappings, a safe return occurred only 57% of the time. Ominously, the child suffered a sexual or physical assault in an astounding 86% of the stereotypical kidnappings. These findings powerfully emphasize the extreme danger of these events and the urgency of police interaction as soon as possible.
Stereotypical kidnapping, in which a child is abducted and either assaulted or held for ransom, is a crime that first appeared in the United States in the late 19th century. During the 1920s, it became entrenched in the public consciousness when a series of child abduction cases terrified parents across the country.
Much of this info is new to me. What I find interesting is that non-family child abduction is fairly rare (but not rare enough) and bear attacks are much rarer than abductions.
Van Tighem finally did something she wasn’t supposed to do: She reached up and poked the bear in the nose. The bear retreated.
Hey, that's what I've always said and I've been practicing a quick left/right combo just in case!
Bah, boom.... bye bear! :)
RockyTrail
04-26-2006, 17:52
THis is from Court TVs Crime Library;
During the 1920s, it became entrenched in the public consciousness when a series of child abduction cases terrified parents across the country.
.
This is getting a long way from bears, but I believe it was the kidnapping of Charles and Anne Morrow Lindbergh's child in the 1930s (the famous aviators) that really brought this crime into the public limelight and only then did it become a federal crime. It was as big or bigger than the O.J. case...
I wasn't going for mature or intelligent on that one. I'm glad you picked up on that, Dick Tracy...
Yeah, why should you start now? :D
PolarFox
04-27-2006, 16:19
It sucks about the kid and his family, but anyone who wants the bear dead for it is a heartless, thoughtless bastard. I think that it's not posible to understand why the bear did it. I also think that it's not possible to understand why anyone, or anything does anything. And as far as "justice" goes, the only people who have a good grasp on that are all fictional.
generoll
04-27-2006, 19:29
Count me as one of those heartless thoughtless bastards. A bear that kills humans is a hazard and needs to be done away with. If a dog was running loose in my neighborhood and attacking children, animal control would come pick him up and in all likelihood a judge would order the animal put down as a public nuisance. I dayhike in the Big Frog area and would prefer not to have to deal with bears that have so lost their fear of humans that they will attack and kill when the opportunity arises. It's not a matter of justice, it's a matter of prefering not to be recycled just yet as bear poop.
Pacific Tortuga
04-27-2006, 21:17
[quote=generoll]Count me as one of those heartless thoughtless bastards. ]
For me you can add liberal,I believe in protecting wildlife from humans and humans from wildlife but if an animal has killed a human their innate fear of humans for the most part is compromised.I can not in good faith alow any creature to kill again if we can identify the guilty party.As ticked off at developers as I am, population growth and incursion by people on what was wild is going to continue and conflicts will happen.I do not want to hit an animal on the road but I'm not going to miss it and threaten a life ending accident. Can you, a heartful,thoughtful chld of a family with your father look at the mother whom lost her daughter and say we could have prevented this but we wanted to protect the bear, knowing it had killed before? That to me would be as harsh as a female dog.
Another way of putting it is that there are bear hunts every year, why not start with going after the bears that have already declared war on humans.
Skidsteer
04-27-2006, 21:40
It sucks about the kid and his family
Duh.
but anyone who wants the bear dead for it is a heartless, thoughtless bastard.
Perhaps they possess a heartfelt and thoughtful view of human life.
I think that it's not posible to understand why the bear did it.
Nor is it necessary.
I also think that it's not possible to understand why anyone, or anything does anything.
You say so. :confused:
And as far as "justice" goes, the only people who have a good grasp on that are all fictional.
A suggestion: Read some non-fiction.
PolarFox
04-28-2006, 00:35
Skidsteer,
Truly heartfelt and thoughtful views of life are of life itself, not just human life, or bear life or whatever. I agree, it isn't necessary to understand why the bear did it, but understanding why the bear did it is necesarry in deteminig how to deal with the bear.
When I was a kid--in the late 60's/early 70's--I used to go to the Smokies all the time by myself, sleeping on the open ground, seeing bears walk through camp at 3 AM, seeing them rear up on the trail 30 ft. away, and never gave two thoughts about them.
The consensus was that they were just big racoons, totally harmless unless you fed them or tried to snap a picture while you hugged the cubs. I used to throw rocks at them, bang pots at them, once even running after one that stole a backpack (I got it back--cowardly bear!).
But with age, I'm now 54, and the few reports of predatory attacks, I've become, well, a bit more squeamish about hiking or camping in bear country.
Now, this might be silly, but to get over that irrational fear I plan on spending several days alone in May hiking and camping out in the Superior National Forest of northern Minnesota, and it's thick with bear, 15 miles off of paved roads and so on.
I'm not a "New Age" type guy at all, but here's the interesting thing--I have a psychologist friend who worked as a counselor in New Mexico with the Zuni Indians. In Zuni mythology, the black bear represents isolation, solitude, and change. Fear of the bear represents fear of those things. According to her and the Zunis, confronting the fear of the black bear leads to overcoming fear of isolation, solitude and change.
Again, I'm not into new age stuff, but it sounded interesting and will add a dimension to my trip.
Your a moron,he's a moron,I'm a moron.Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Ramble~On
04-28-2006, 04:52
The terror that must have occured that day is unimaginable. This was a tragic, horrible, fatal event. I am not going to try to defend the bear or us as humans but simply give my opinion.
Bear attacks are rare, fatal bear attacks even more rare. What was going through the bears mind was simple "survive". I will never know if that bear was a completely "wild" bear or if previous involvement with humans and human food or garbage had removed some of that wildness to the point where it viewed humans as a source of food.
If I had just recently awoken from a long winters sleep and was out searching for something, anything to eat and all I could find were grasses, a few insects, some sapling buds, an acorn or two....just a nibble at a time and all of a sudden I saw an entire meal sitting on the ground I would no doubt make every effort to eat that meal and would consider myself fortunate. My survival for the moment would not be in question, the hunger inside me would fade.
This bear obviously viewed the boy as a meal. As a wild animal instinctually driven to survive I don't fault the bear.
If that day this same bear would have happened upon a doe and two fawns instead and the same outcome resulted we'd never know about it.
I do not think the bear rationialized between human or deer.... it simply saw an opportunity.
We as humans do not like being on anythings food chain. We often forget that we are not the "top predator". When we venture into the ocean we are outside our element and inside the element (and food chain) of almost all creatures in the sea trying to survive......if someone is attacked and eatten by a shark...the shark is deemed a man-eatter, killer and nuisance...hunted and destroyed.
If the same shark comes up next to a mother seal and seal calf and eats the seal calf....humans do not brandish that shark a killer, nuisance or man-eatter...they do not hunt it down and destroy it because it is only doing what comes "natural" to it and trying to survive.
We as humans put oursleves above all other creatures.....and in this case,
that bear is a man-eatter, killer and nuisance...a threat.
Had the bear not been stopped, chased off and eventually destroyed there is no doubt in my mind what would have happened to the victims. More than likely future encounters between this bear and humans would have been similar.
Since the time of this incident there have no doubt been countless birds of prey that have snatched hung rabbits away from their mothers, coyotes have eatten many a mouse, snakes, bear. trout eatting insects or smaller fish....life goes on daily....nonstop...but this one incident involved humans and that isn't supposed to happen to us.
I am a father. I can not imagine the grief of this family. The rarity of events such as this grab headlines as do the severity...It makes me realize that although we think we have control of our world....we as humans are masters of our environment...but in reality nature is still in control and from time to time events like this one remind us of that.
The east coast of the US isn't the "wilds" of Alaska....it isn't the Lion filled plains of Africa...People on the east coast venture into the woods all the time and most don't even consider the possibilty of having an encounter with a bear, cougar, wolf pack. Most live under the impression that we have tamed the wilds..and being preyed on by any wild animal is out of the question.
I try to imagine what the east coast would have been like in the early 1700's...just 300 years ago. I seriously doubt any family would have gone anywhere without a firearm or other form of protection. Just 300 years ago there would have been cougar, wolf packs, brown and black bear.
300 years ago this same attack would have been just as unfortunate, just as horrible and just as alarming but it probably would have been better understood.
Perhaps with less and less wilderness left....less things in the forest for animals to eat, smaller and smaller pockets of woodlands to roam I can start to understand more the survival situation from the point of view of the bear. In this case there is no winner...it's horrible what the bear did to the family...it's shocking due to how rare attacks like this are. It's sad the state we humans have put all wild things into.
Skidsteer
04-28-2006, 07:02
Skidsteer,
Truly heartfelt and thoughtful views of life are of life itself, not just human life, or bear life or whatever. I agree, it isn't necessary to understand why the bear did it, but understanding why the bear did it is necesarry in deteminig how to deal with the bear.
So your view is that a bear that has already killed one human has the same value or right to continued life as it's possible future human prey? And that anyone who places more value on a human life than a bear's life is thoughtless and heartless?
If so, I disagree with your philosophy. Vigorously.
Lone Wolf
04-28-2006, 07:24
The bear killed a human. The bear must die.
The bear killed a human. The bear must die.
Eloquently put.
The bear killed an innocent human. What if it killed some scumbag rapist?
Blue Jay
04-28-2006, 10:07
The bear killed a human. The bear must die.
Human can't find bear. Bear lives
Blue Jay
04-28-2006, 10:09
Perhaps they possess a heartfelt and thoughtful view of human life.
You are so wonderfully heartfelt and so very thoughtfull. I think I'm in love.
The bear killed an innocent human. What if it killed some scumbag rapist?
Do we really need to rate the quality of the kill? :-?
i come to the defense of polarfox. the issue here is our unrestrained population growth and our obsession with conquest and control of the environment. society is on the brink of disaster because it is founded on the erroneous proposition that humanity owns the world. human life isn't any higher or better or different then bear life. we are able to kill this bear only because we have guns and bears don't. what if squirrels banded together and decided to kill humans? if all the billions of squirrels in the world joined in the battle, they'd be a pretty formidable foe. they might win in a war against humans. would that make it right?
i come to the defense of polarfox. the issue here is our unrestrained population growth and our obsession with conquest and control of the environment. society is on the brink of disaster because it is founded on the erroneous proposition that humanity owns the world. human life isn't any higher or better or different then bear life. we are able to kill this bear only because we have guns and bears don't. what if squirrels banded together and decided to kill humans? if all the billions of squirrels in the world joined in the battle, they'd be a pretty formidable foe. they might win in a war against humans. would that make it right?
Sorry, Darwin was right. It is survival of the fittest. When the squirrels (or small green men from another world) take over, then they will be the fittest.
squirrels are nasty little beasts
squirrels are nasty little beasts
Yes and they are clever. Only problem I ever had with hanging my food was a squirrel who managed to leap onto the bag. But it was nothing that a well aimed rock didn't resolve. There should be law about animals throwing rocks at humans. ;)
neighbor dave
04-28-2006, 12:41
:-? alcoholic drunk driver kills innocent bystander on sidewalk.
kill the bastid!!!
deer tramples family member on picnic. it felt threatened.
kill the bastid!!!
current admin kills innocent solders in friendly fire mishap!!
you fill in the blank!!:jump
neighbor dave
04-28-2006, 12:43
:welcome mingos back!! ha ha ha watch out fer nasty lil red squirrels, dey eat dem amnita muscaria mushrooms, dey can't be trusted no mo!!:jump
jaywalke
04-28-2006, 12:43
Dance Monkeys, Dance!
www.ernestcline.com/dmd/
(It really is on-topic, at least it is considering the philosophical turns this topic has taken . . .)
Human can't find bear. Bear lives
Right. We can't find the killer bear, so we kill an innocent bear. Well, maybe not totally innocent. There's a good chance the bear we killed may have stolen some hiker food at some point -- or tried to, anyway, or would have liked to, or consorted with bears that did.
Hey, we do it for countries, why not bears?
Weary
Blue Jay
04-28-2006, 18:18
Right. We can't find the killer bear, so we kill an innocent bear. Well, maybe not totally innocent. There's a good chance the bear we killed may have stolen some hiker food at some point -- or tried to, anyway, or would have liked to, or consorted with bears that did.
Hey, we do it for countries, why not bears?
Weary
You are correct, we need to spend billions of dollars finding this bear. I'm sure he was involved in 9/11.
It seems to me acording to many of you posting that maybe we should be killing more humans that kill humans, than we are. After all, we kill any animal that kills a human...and then some.
neighbor dave
04-28-2006, 18:39
You are correct, we need to spend billions of dollars finding this bear. I'm sure he was involved in 9/11.
:D :jump ha ha ha that's funny.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-28-2006, 19:12
You are correct, we need to spend billions of dollars finding this bear. I'm sure he was involved in 9/11.
Absolute proof (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/OsamaBearLaden.jpg)
neighbor dave
04-28-2006, 19:14
:eek: it's ursa bear ladin!!!:jump
It seems to me acording to many of you posting that maybe we should be killing more humans that kill humans, than we are. After all, we kill any animal that kills a human...and then some.
I thought we already had the death penalty and the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. :-? Not that there is anything right with that.
Turbo Joe
04-28-2006, 20:18
what i need to know from witnesses is if the bear came to them or if they got too close to him. cause every bear ive seen eaither ran away... didn't care i was there... or gave me a growl or two to tell me not to come near.
Shutterbug
04-28-2006, 21:37
what i need to know from witnesses is if the bear came to them or if they got too close to him. cause every bear ive seen eaither ran away... didn't care i was there... or gave me a growl or two to tell me not to come near.
Turbo Joe, The man who was attacked had been chasing the bear for some time. After running for a long time, the bear circled back and pounced on the man. The man was unarmed. The man with the gun was some distance behind him. I would say that the man's actions qualify as "getting too close to him."
Ramble~On
04-29-2006, 04:50
Absolute proof (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/OsamaBearLaden.jpg)
So,
I clicked on the "absolute proof":eek: and the picture made me laugh so hard that I threw up the bear steak I had just finished.
Funny it hasn't been mentioned yet that humans eat a lot more bear than bear eat humans......and of course in China the Black Bear Gall Bladder is prized as a form of Viagra.
Skidsteer
04-29-2006, 08:00
what if squirrels banded together and decided to kill humans? if all the billions of squirrels in the world joined in the battle, they'd be a pretty formidable foe. they might win in a war against humans. would that make it right?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=6&q=http://tschoonover.blogspot.com/&e=10401
:D
tech30528
04-29-2006, 15:02
No, smart person.
Let's go over the facts again:
The bear attacked,a human, even though most of the people on this board insist that they never attack us.
The bear killed a little girl, and mauled a little boy, when the tactics espoused by the gun-haters on this board were used. (The bear is more scared of you, pick up a rock or stick, blah blah blah...)
The bear attack was stopped when a firearm was employed. (The smart approach)
Thanks to a culture that refuses to take responsibility for self defense, and insists on avoiding the real possibilities of a wild animal or human attack, a little girl is dead, a little boy is mauled, and a bear (now maybe two) will be hunted down and killed.
If saner heads had prevailed, that woman would have been armed, and her children would be alive. A warning shot may have deterred the bear, or a killing shot would have saved the girls life, and the life of the innocent bear that I now hear has been killed by mistake.
No armed hiker has ever killed another hiker on the AT, either intentionally, or by mistake, yet you people are more scared of the inanimate object than the big hairy predator, who has millions of years of evolution and instinct teling it to actually act like a bear....and hunt.
Yes, I know bears are omnivores, but those canines are not just for show. Just ask the "Bear Whisperer" AKA "Grizzly Man" how sweet and misunderstood bears are. I doubt you will get much of a response from him, as he is now bear scat, thanks to his "friends". You could ask his gullible girlfriend too, but will get the same reply. (Yes, I know black bears and grizzlies are different. Black bears attack more often.)
Just look at the statistics, and you will see that bear attacks have risen in each of the last 5 decades.
Last time I checked, bears still act like bears, can't read maps to tell if they are on the AT or not, and occasionally attack people.
Cougars also act like cougars, and wild dogs suprisingly act like wild dogs.
Rapists and murderers also seem to still be around, and shouting and banging pans together seems to have no effect on them.
As somebody who hikes with my year old son, pictured here:
http://www.fototime.com/{D8AC9CF2-F98A-4C26-BAEB-8A25D5004BAF}/picture.JPG
and here:
http://www.fototime.com/{6902E9A1-115D-4206-B854-927CFC9EA2D6}/picture.JPG
He would be seen as easy prey to a carnivore preparing for, or coming out of hibernation, I choose to be a good parent and father, and do everything in my power to make sure he comes home un-mauled after enjoying the woods. The prescence of a firearm, as a last resort, has absolutely zero impact on the trail, or my fellow hikers, or the peaceful wildlife.
Hey, JLB, didn't realize you were on this forum. I breezed right over your name, then saw the pics! Couldn't agree more. We just got back from the Smokies last weekend, and you can bet we were "armed for bears". Didn't see any.
Turbo Joe
12-07-2006, 19:48
well of course you should never antaganize a bear
Hey, JLB, didn't realize you were on this forum. I breezed right over your name, then saw the pics! Couldn't agree more. We just got back from the Smokies last weekend, and you can bet we were "armed for bears". Didn't see any.
Tech!
My hiking buddy.
I feel like I just spoke to you on another board just a week ago. :banana
nuwatiman
02-28-2007, 13:34
If you don't want to take the chance of being attack by an animal... then stay inside your house. Animals are in the wild and when we enter the home(the wild) we take a chance of getting bite or even killed. No this bear should have been left alone and should still be alive. Animals should not be killed because it attacked somebody we enter there home or domain and we took a chance unfortunally in this case a child was killed. The mother should have know better then to take her kids there if bear were or are around.
WONDERWOMAN
02-28-2007, 14:27
I am planning a thru hike Georgia to Maine starting in late March early April. I have read the following: Hang your food up and away, cook away from where you sleep, no food in tent, don't wear anything fragrant, hike loud, stay away from bears, pray to God if you come between Mama bear and her cubs, act big and loud if confronted by bear, play dead if cought by bear. Please fill me in on what I dont know including effectiveness of bear spray and bells. Also, is there any lotion smells that are ok, peppermint, eucalyptus, hemp? I need lots of advice on lots of stuff.
generoll
02-28-2007, 15:07
Just avoid taking advice from morons who defend an animals right to attack humans and you'll do fine. No help for the predatory mice however.