View Full Version : Switching to a tarp - Need advice
mnof1000v
04-17-2006, 12:34
***Before I begin my post, I'd like to make clear that I'm not in the market for a HH. I'm not a particularly big fan, and this is not a post in search of numerous replies from HH enthusiasts.
I'm currently hiking the AT, and I find that I almost never use my tent. In the 6 weeks I've been out here, I've used it exactly 3 times. I'm looking to switch to some sort of tarp system.
I'd like to make the transition in the MOST INEXPENSIVE, MOST CONVENIENT manner possible. I have never used a tarp before, but I figure since I mostly go shelter to shelter (as I have so far), I'm really looking at a tarp as a "just-in-case" piece of equipment. My tent is just not worth the weight if I'm not using it frequently.
Any suggestions?
The Campmor SilyNylon tarp is a good "bread and butter" tarp. At 13 oz (for the 8x10) it is pretty light. There are lighter tarps out there, some with nice features (cantenary shape, tie out lines instead of grommets, etc.), but for the price..it works. $65.
Another bonus is that Campmor is reached toll free and they are very familiar with how to ship to thru-hikers!
1-800-Campmor
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=88643&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1
FWIW, I've used it on the PCT (and other places) and plan on using it on the CDT this year.
If you want anultra budget (but fairly light tarp), a painters drop cloth work as well. You can find this item is just about any hardware store.
A great site on how to setup up tarps is by our very own Sgt. Rock:
http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html
I would say if you are looking mainly for a just in case tarp, you will not go wrong by using a Poncho Tarp. However, these types of tarps are on the small size, and normally one needs experience using such tarps. Golite has a poncho tarp for $50 and it weighs 10oz. They also have larger tarps that go for $70-$150.
http://www.golite.com/products/prodlist.asp?category=9
www.backpackinglight.com (http://www.backpackinglight.com) has a selection of tarps also ranging from $90-$190, most of these are small and much lighter than the Golite tarps.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/sf/Shelter%20Systems/Tarps/index.html
Alligator
04-17-2006, 13:34
I'll second Mags' suggestion. I use the same tarp three season solo. I add a rectangular (cot type) mosquito net if I expect it to be buggy. A nice feature of this type of mosquito net for you would be that you could use it in the shelters too. I cut up a 50' length of Kelty Triptease for a ridgeline and guy outs and carry six titanium tent stakes. That's more than enough line and some get by with fewer stakes.
if you want to go really cheap, walmart sells plastic coated tarps in various sizes. not the lightest, like silnylon, but still lighter than your tent for an 8 x 10... and way cheaper... i'm thinking they're under $10 but not sure. they're definitely waterproof, just heavier than silnylon. plain old plastic sheeting works too... tie a rock into the corners with your tieouts and you're in business...
Pennsylvania Rose
04-17-2006, 15:15
I took my 12, 13, and 14 yr olds out for 5 days the first week of April. Since my 14 yr old and I end up carrying more than our share of weight, I thought we'd try using tarps. I didn't know if I'd like to tarp so I bought 8x10 Wal-Mart tarps. Although they aren't high-tech or the lightest you can get, they saved a ton of weight over the two tents we would have had to carry, were incredibly cheap for a family on a tight budget, and stood up to a suprise snowstorm and 40 mph gusts of wind. The camo color was $8.96.
Programbo
04-19-2006, 20:56
I`d also suggest just a basic 8x10 waterproof nylon tarp with grommets around the edges..You can just string a line between 2 trees and make an A-Frame type setup or make a lean-to type deal...Folds up small and takes up little room...If you want real cheap and really waterproof the ripstop poly plastic tarps are your best bet
Nearly Normal
04-19-2006, 23:09
Granite gear, well made, you pay for it.
The white model gives me too much light but I think they make it in blue now. The 8X is a little small I'd get the 10X if I did it again.
Pete
Does anyone know about or tried this great company called: Dancing White Cloud products. They have tarp systems that really look nice. I too am new to a tarp philosophy. Want to cut the weight.
How about some ground cloth or water proof for under sleeping bag?
Any suggestions
Thanks for you replies in advance
berrym
Dear berrym,
I think the tarp system has lots of merit, considering that you can use it to protect you during the day time for even simple stops for lunch or meals. It certainly can be light weight and it would reduce the weight of even a light weight tent by many pounds. Hearing that many don't even use their tents while on the AT, makes me think this tarp idea has strong merit. I could see having something like the tarp system...however, there is one caveat...you have to have a way to string it up...no trees...no tarp (except as a ground cover). The few places that I have hiked on the AT (parts of Shenandaoh in Virginia, Carver's Gap north to Overlook Mountain and then near Laurel Falls in North Carolina, I had trees.) I have NOT stayed in the shelters. However, there are many "balds" that might be nice to camp on, requiring a tent for sure...but how do you do a tarp without trees to stretch it or use it. Maybe you could use your walking poles or hiking staff. I have both and have used my hiking staff to add extra support when I couldn't find a suitable branch...but would love to hear additional alternatives, ideas, etc.
Lastly, how really valuable are the AT shelters? I have only done overnighters on the AT...mostly because I live in Michigan and don't get to that part of the country but rarely. I want to do the whole AT when I retire at some point. Would love to consider the shelters so that there is no need to carry a tent...but these are my questions:
1.) What if you don't have a tent and the shelters are full?
2.) If you at least had the tarp system, you could stretch it out if the shelters were full and you had no tent...would this work?
3.) The few shelters I have examined, Stan Murray, Overlook Mountain just to name a few, are really rather primitive. Not to say that's not what I want...but would like anyone's take on it. Maybe after doing 100+ miles any port in the storm would be sweet! So what do you all think?
4.) After you have done maybe several hundreds of miles on the AT, do you develop a philosophy that says, anything goes...giving up most of your sense of civilization, privacy, humility, etc.?
It seems like the tarp system, combined with a minimum weight tent or bivy has merit! But what do you experts think? YOU, who have done the whole AT or even several hundreds or even a thousand miles? You really have experienced much more than I...and so it sure would be nice to hear from you when you can.
Many, many, many thanks for indulging me on these questions.
paradigm shift berry
(psberry)
Footslogger
04-20-2006, 08:33
[quote=berrym]How about some ground cloth or water proof for under sleeping bag?
Any suggestions
===================================
When I carry just my tarp I bring along a bug bivy. Check out the link below.
http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/tentdetail.cfm/OR208
If there are no bugs and you don't want the mesh you can use it simply as a ground cloth. And if it's really nice at night you can use the Bug Bivy all by itself for some star gazing.
'Slogger
Alligator
04-20-2006, 09:20
Does anyone know about or tried this great company called: Dancing White Cloud products. They have tarp systems that really look nice. I too am new to a tarp philosophy. Want to cut the weight.
How about some ground cloth or water proof for under sleeping bag?
Any suggestions
Thanks for you replies in advance
berrym
Ground cloth
1. Tyvek-house or kite. Can be washed.
2. Painter's cloth (sheet plastic) 2,3, or 4 mil. I find these develop moldy smells.
I could see having something like the tarp system...however, there is one caveat...you have to have a way to string it up...no trees...no tarp (except as a ground cover).
Not true. A three sided pyramid/teepee can be made with a stick or a trekking pole as a support. Consider an 8X10 tarp. The pole goes in the middle of the long edge, the two shorter sides fold in, making a three sided shelter with the opening adjustable somewhat in size. This is my safety setup for rain and bugs. I drape a mosquito net over the entrace which also catchs rain. Search the web, somewhere there's a page with several configurations with pictures.
1.) What if you don't have a tent and the shelters are full?
It's irresponsible to not carry personal shelter.
2.) If you at least had the tarp system, you could stretch it out if the shelters were full and you had no tent...would this work?A tarp is a very reasonable shelter for three seasons, even four under some conditions.
3.) The few shelters I have examined, Stan Murray, Overlook Mountain just to name a few, are really rather primitive. Not to say that's not what I want...but would like anyone's take on it. Maybe after doing 100+ miles any port in the storm would be sweet! So what do you all think?They're all primitive--I am not considering the AMC huts.
4.) After you have done maybe several hundreds of miles on the AT, do you develop a philosophy that says, anything goes...giving up most of your sense of civilization, privacy, humility, etc.?Well, I don't mind the mountain spice in my food, and I wouldn't consider crapping in a hole at home. I usually shower daily at home, but on the trail, stinky is as stinky does. A greater sense of humility is what many are after. Simplicity. Connection.
A tarp is fine on its own, no pressing need for a bivy. A tent and a tarp is wasted weight IMO. Overmountain is one of the nicest shelters on the AT. The view is outstanding.
Pennsylvania Rose
04-20-2006, 10:39
Overmountain is one of the nicest shelters on the AT. The view is outstanding.
Ditto on all of your tarp advice, Alligator. I enjoyed the lighter weight, and relative ease of setup. Need to practice more, though, before I'd consider myself "good" at tarping.
As for Overmountain, it is the coolest shelter I've ever stayed at, with an incredible view. The kids and I thought it was much colder than Roan High Knob shelter (the highest in elevation and reputedly the coldest shelter on the AT). The wind blew through the barn all night and even with our tarp over the loft window and ground cloth blocking the breeze through the floor, we were really cold. The air temp at Roan High Knob was lower the next night, but the shelter had 4 walls, a door, and no breeze got in.
Thanks everyone for the advice. The tarp system is a new concept for me. (I've certain use them family camping...but never as single shelter for backpacking.)
Question: What size of tarp do your recommend for two adults sharing same tarp? 8 x 10, 10 x 10 or even 10 x 12? I was just thinking to start a little bigger to get experience. Advice?
Thanks in advance for replies.
Also thanks Footlogger for the BUG BIVY!!!! Excellent for a new tarp person living in Michigan with lots and lots of biting bugs. Thanks!
Alligator
04-20-2006, 11:32
...
As for Overmountain, it is the coolest shelter I've ever stayed at, with an incredible view. The kids and I thought it was much colder than Roan High Knob shelter (the highest in elevation and reputedly the coldest shelter on the AT). The wind blew through the barn all night and even with our tarp over the loft window and ground cloth blocking the breeze through the floor, we were really cold. The air temp at Roan High Knob was lower the next night, but the shelter had 4 walls, a door, and no breeze got in.I was cold at Overmountain too. I was setup on one of the platforms downstairs. I ended up setting my tarp up as a windbreak in the middle of the night. The barn is drafty. But I was near/at hypothermia at Roan High. It was a cold rainy fall day and I was soaked through, uncontrollable shivers. I think it started to rain on the climb up, so I didn't put on my rain gear. I pulled in at lunch and had to strip out of my clothes into my dry camp clothes. Then I had to put the nasty wet clothes back on to save my dry stuff. Eeww!
Alligator
04-20-2006, 11:38
...
Question: What size of tarp do your recommend for two adults sharing same tarp? 8 x 10, 10 x 10 or even 10 x 12? I was just thinking to start a little bigger to get experience. Advice?
...
I'll suggest 8X10 if you are lovey dovey. My wife and I made do in my 8X10. 10X10 otherwise or even the 10X12. A couple of extra ounces when split 2 ways is worth the space. On the other hand, what will it be used more for, 2 people or 1 person? Pack covers help to avoid splash on the edges also, or even a trash bag at night.
Look's like they sell Tyvek ground cloth's now, too.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39196844&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1
There are less expensive places online...but nice to know you can get it from a major catalog now.
Just Jeff
04-20-2006, 12:12
In some places, it may be hard to find a site to pitch a big tarp. Might be feasible to get two 8x10 or something similar so you have lots more sites. You can always pitch them together when you have a big site.
It'll weigh a little more, but require less experience and creativity in setting it up. Just a thought.
Pennsylvania Rose
04-20-2006, 13:21
My 5'9" son and I fit fine with our gear under an 8x10. The three mostly grown kids and I used two 8x10's on our trip a few weeks ago. I think two tarps that size would be overkill for just two adults. Although, if you want to carry it, you might enjoy the extra space.
Do what I did (thanks to the advice of WBers) - get a couple of cheap tarps, play around with them in your yard, go on a trip, see what works for you. Make changes and upgrade as you get experience.
Thanks Pennsylvania Rose! That is sort of what I had thought of doing. I might just get one 8 x 10 from Campmore. I think it is about 13 oz and certainly a little cheaper to boot....about $65.00 or so.
I was going to try this system along with those BUG BIVY that Footslogger suggested. It is just my brother and I trying it out and we have been packbacking for years together. However we are getting much older now and want to cut some weight down too.
How do you handle the bugs in your great state? Michigan is a buggy place in the spring and summer. You can hardly use our Upper Pennisula in the spring because of black flies. Ouch!
Thanks for all the good advice everyone. Looks like something I'm going to try this season here in Michigan before we do any AT trips in a few years after retirement.
berrym
Programbo
04-20-2006, 18:50
There were a few companies that made pyramid type tents which were basically 7x7 square with but a single pole up the center..I found you could use your hiking staff in place of this pole thereby carrying only the nylon body of the tent and the fly...Also some of the smaller 1-2 person tents are so light I`d think twice about going to a tarp just to save the .5-1 pound of weight...Just for the record I designed several hammock type tents..hammock/fly designs almost 25 years ago and almost all the major backpacking tent companies laughed at me...I also designed a ground pad/therma-rest pad/bivy tent which was all in one piece they thought was dumb also...My only design that went over was the idea to place 2/3 of the sleeping bag filling on the top of the bag since what was under you got crushed anyway..That way a bag could have the same weight but greater warmth or less weight and equal warmth..I`m not sure who does that now but back when I suggested it no one was doing it that way
Pennsylvania Rose
04-20-2006, 19:25
How do you handle the bugs in your great state?
Our trip at the beginning of the month was the first time I'd really used a tarp. We didn't encounter any bugs - just snow and wind. I'll be working on the bug proofing this summer, and I'll probably invest in more durable, lighter (and more expensive) tarps.
Might be feasible to get two 8x10 or something similar so you have lots more sites. You can always pitch them together when you have a big site.
so now you've got me thinking... does anyone make a silnylon shelter half? the canvas ones are too heavy, but the concept is great... as i recall, they're only about 4' wide and about 5' long, plus the triangle piece at each end to cover the head and feet. they would therefore be lighter than even a very small tarp... i've spent a few nights in them in the rain, and they didn't leak at the overlapped portion... it was mostly if you touched the canvas... each hiker could use one of their poles for the inside, and carry only 4-5 stakes, plus tieout cord(s).
Nearly Normal
04-21-2006, 21:37
Check out http://www.trailquest.net/store.html
I made the ground cloth with foot pocket for tarping trips.
Pete
Hana_Hanger
04-22-2006, 05:42
There were a few companies that made pyramid type tents which were basically 7x7 square with but a single pole up the center..I found you could use your hiking staff in place of this pole thereby carrying only the nylon body of the tent and the fly...Also some of the smaller 1-2 person tents are so light I`d think twice about going to a tarp just to save the .5-1 pound of weight...Just for the record I designed several hammock type tents..hammock/fly designs almost 25 years ago and almost all the major backpacking tent companies laughed at me...I also designed a ground pad/therma-rest pad/bivy tent which was all in one piece they thought was dumb also...My only design that went over was the idea to place 2/3 of the sleeping bag filling on the top of the bag since what was under you got crushed anyway..That way a bag could have the same weight but greater warmth or less weight and equal warmth..I`m not sure who does that now but back when I suggested it no one was doing it that way
Do you find the middle pole or your hiking pole to be in the way...prehaps even knocking it over in the night?
I was wondering about this with the many of the tarptents and the pyramid designs.
I did make a rather silly looking tent out of my 9 x 9 (used trees no poles) but it worked and I was able to get out of the rain and even cook inside while sitting on a nice Crazy Creek air chair :D
I am trying out many different ideas also.
mbroadhe
04-22-2006, 09:26
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12648
Programbo
04-23-2006, 20:25
Do you find the middle pole or your hiking pole to be in the way...prehaps even knocking it over in the night?
I was wondering about this with the many of the tarptents and the pyramid designs.
Usually there was a small circular plastic or aluminum thing in the center of the floor that acted as a pocket to keep the pole from slipping..But it was possible to happen but easy enough to fix
brancher
04-24-2006, 20:59
***Before I begin my post, I'd like to make clear that I'm not in the market for a HH. I'm not a particularly big fan, and this is not a post in search of numerous replies from HH enthusiasts.
I'm currently hiking the AT, and I find that I almost never use my tent. In the 6 weeks I've been out here, I've used it exactly 3 times. I'm looking to switch to some sort of tarp system.
I'd like to make the transition in the MOST INEXPENSIVE, MOST CONVENIENT manner possible. I have never used a tarp before, but I figure since I mostly go shelter to shelter (as I have so far), I'm really looking at a tarp as a "just-in-case" piece of equipment. My tent is just not worth the weight if I'm not using it frequently.
Any suggestions?
I did a section in GA a few weeks ago - 65 miles over a few days. I took my homemade tarptent and used it twice during the week. Otherwise, I stayed in shelters. For the availability of shelters and the convenience, I say you really can't beat a shelter. But sometimes if the shelters are too full, you gotta have a tarp. At 19 oz. including bug screen, it was a real bonus at night.
Go with the Campmor for a very basic tarp (although I prefer a 10X10 - more versatile). Cheap and functional.
Oware is a company that makes a variety of tarps in different sizes, shapes and material. In tarps 8x10 and larger, putting a hiking pole in the middle works very well, and does not get in the way of two people. Silnylon stretches, the pole takes out sag and deflects run-off further away from the edges. For bug protection, look at tarptents.
http://www.owareusa.com
http://tarptent.com
If you already have a tent with a separate fly, se if the fly can be set up as a stand-alone shelter, eg. Hilleberg Akto.