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abales01
04-19-2006, 08:34
What kind of supplies does the White House Landing carry. Enough food to make it to Katahdin, or just minimal supplies?

The Solemates
04-19-2006, 10:00
i dont remember them carrying much stuff that you could buy, except fresh foods like hamburgers...but the 1-pounder may provide enough to get all the way to katahdin!

Footslogger
04-19-2006, 10:31
My information is dated since my thru was in 2003 but they had a little table and cabinet back then with some stuff ...and then there was the hiker box. Quite frankly I ended up getting what I needed from the hiker box.

'Slogger

Shutterbug
04-19-2006, 11:19
What kind of supplies does the White House Landing carry. Enough food to make it to Katahdin, or just minimal supplies?

I was there last September. I was impressed with their selection. They had a variety of food, fuel (alcohol, white gas, and cannister), and a few drug store items.

And, like someone else said, they have an active hiker box. They are just the right distance from Abol that southbounders can figure out what they brought and don't need. I dumped enough food in the hiker box to get at least three northbounders to Katahdin.

The primary complaint I heard from northbounders was the prices. Certainly, White House Landing is more expensive than WalMart. Personally, I thought their prices were reasonable considering where they are located.

The second complaint I have heard is that Bill isn't very friendly to hikers who come to White House Landing and don't spend any money. That wasn't my observation. While I was there, a hiker came in who was almost out of money. He got some food out of the hiker box for himself and his dog. I think he may have bought some noodles out of the food pantry, but I don't think he bought anything else. As far as I could see, he was treated nicely.

chip B
04-19-2006, 13:42
i left the trail in 2003 at whites landing and will be starting there on may 13 this year... bill was ok didnt see him a lot was only two of us there then on about june 20th he was building a new cabin. i have talked to him on picking me up in town and found that he wants me to stay a night there due to the cost of the trip to town.. asked if he will drop me across the lake where the trail starts not at the horn.. he said he might consider it, they used to but he said gas cost more now.. will be nice to just get to the trail and get started again georgia or bust

WalkinHome
04-19-2006, 17:17
Don't forget that you can buy more food at the store at Abol Bridge when you come out of the wilderness. Be Safe

gravityman
04-19-2006, 17:32
There was plenty there at the end of August in 2005 to get you to katahdyn. No problems for us... We also really enjoyed our stay and Bill was quite nice to us.

Gravity and Danger

TJ aka Teej
04-19-2006, 22:13
Just to be clear, since this is under "mail drops" - there are no mail drops at WHL any more. Bill sells some supplies, and of course fresh food, enough to get you N to Linda's Store at Abol Bridge where you'll find plenty of eats. If a food drop is in your plans, contact WB member Boarstone who can arrange a cache for you in the 100 Mile.

thompsoniac
08-22-2007, 15:16
After 3 thru hikes I finally stopped at the Landing for the first time, against the advice of several buddies with previous thru-hikes. (August 2007)
Woodstock and I were doing Rangley to the K and stopped for a burger.
After a budwieser, a burger, and hiker food for one day (to get to Abol early morning) my tab came to 39 bucks.
I was equally unimpressed with Bill who barked at his family while he cooked ur lunch. After being asked about the history of the Landing, Bill unabashedly explained that his camp, originally designed to cater to fisherman and snowmobilers was a bust and that he turned to the hikers in order to make ends meet.
"Without the hikers we wouldn't be here." ,he told me.
In a single day he cut an illegal trail across private paper company land and posted signs illegally on the AT. Then he blazed the trail blue and asked questions later.
It is obvious that Bill is not simpathetic to the plight of the hiker. He is interested in the bottom line and nothing else.
I understand that there is a fine line between business and charity, but the girls at Shaws in Monson have figured out how to create both.
My experiences at each place could not be more opposite.
On another level, the concept of being shuttled accross the lake on the boat leaves the hiker stranded from the trail and at the mercy of Bill.
It was extremely uncomfortable and myself and 6 other hikers basically sat in silence until our food was ready. Then we devoured it and left the lodge quickly.
Never again.
Traildog

Appalachian Tater
08-22-2007, 19:11
Last year there was a sign on the hiker box saying that it was for overnight guests only.

The whole family was very nice to us and the food was great. We did not stay overnight but went inside the cabin and it was quite clean.

They did go a little wild with the blue paint, I figured maybe the kid did it.

TOW
08-22-2007, 20:32
After 3 thru hikes I finally stopped at the Landing for the first time, against the advice of several buddies with previous thru-hikes. (August 2007)
Woodstock and I were doing Rangley to the K and stopped for a burger.
After a budwieser, a burger, and hiker food for one day (to get to Abol early morning) my tab came to 39 bucks.
I was equally unimpressed with Bill who barked at his family while he cooked ur lunch. After being asked about the history of the Landing, Bill unabashedly explained that his camp, originally designed to cater to fisherman and snowmobilers was a bust and that he turned to the hikers in order to make ends meet.
"Without the hikers we wouldn't be here." ,he told me.
In a single day he cut an illegal trail across private paper company land and posted signs illegally on the AT. Then he blazed the trail blue and asked questions later.
It is obvious that Bill is not simpathetic to the plight of the hiker. He is interested in the bottom line and nothing else.
I understand that there is a fine line between business and charity, but the girls at Shaws in Monson have figured out how to create both.
My experiences at each place could not be more opposite.
On another level, the concept of being shuttled accross the lake on the boat leaves the hiker stranded from the trail and at the mercy of Bill.
It was extremely uncomfortable and myself and 6 other hikers basically sat in silence until our food was ready. Then we devoured it and left the lodge quickly.
Never again.
Traildog
Your first post is to get on here and bash Bill and his family? Get a real man. I mean where do you think your at out there in the wilderness? You forgot to mention the cost it takes to get supplies into Whites Landing. Sometimes it is even flown in.

Whites Landing was one of the best experiences of the whole trail for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here on Whiteblaze who feels this way.

If you hike the wilderness again Whites Landing will be better off without you stopping by, they have been ther for a few years and they probably will do just fine without your stopping by for a few more years.

Lone Wolf
08-22-2007, 20:54
Your first post is to get on here and bash Bill and his family? Get a real man. I mean where do you think your at out there in the wilderness? You forgot to mention the cost it takes to get supplies into Whites Landing. Sometimes it is even flown in.

Whites Landing was one of the best experiences of the whole trail for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here on Whiteblaze who feels this way.

If you hike the wilderness again Whites Landing will be better off without you stopping by, they have been ther for a few years and they probably will do just fine without your stopping by for a few more years.

Andy gave his honest opinion. He has that right. There are certain hostels/motels/inns that I think totally suck but the majority of hikers think they are glorious. I don't want my azz kissed like most hikers do. I understand where Andy is coming from

rickb
08-22-2007, 21:18
What's with the capital letters? Get a working keyboard?

Lone Wolf
08-22-2007, 21:28
What's with the capital letters? Get a working keyboard?

you're an observant bastard.:) just feeling unlazy

WalkingStick75
08-22-2007, 22:18
I just finished a hike through the wilderness and did stop at the White House. Bill was friendly, food was great and did tell me too that the hikers have saved his business sence the snowmobiling had dropped off due to the lack of snow. Which makes me wonder why when two more hikers came in about 6pm he refused to make dinner for them, they ate snacks. You would think if the hikers have saved his business he would add a little more service to his service.

attroll
08-23-2007, 02:10
It is a known fact that Bill illegally created the trail and painted the blue blazes on the trail to get hikers to come to his place to bring in business. This has been an issue that the MATC has confronted him with and he continues to ignore them and keeps the blue blazes on the illegal trail.

It is quite obvious that Bill has not care for anyone else's property. How would you feel if your neighbor hacked a trail a half mile long through your property and put blue blazes on the trail without asking you?

TOW
08-23-2007, 08:03
Andy gave his honest opinion. He has that right. There are certain hostels/motels/inns that I think totally suck but the majority of hikers think they are glorious. I don't want my azz kissed like most hikers do. I understand where Andy is coming from

Okay then, I agree. But what disappointed me is that his very first post was to come on here slamming Whites Landing. Crap fire!

Everyone has a right to their opinion but when I give my opinion I better get ready to recieve back. And those who know me may respect my opinion enough to let it be, but if I just walk into a new crowd of folk and shoot my trap off I am liable to rile some feathers...........

TOW
08-23-2007, 08:09
It is a known fact that Bill illegally created the trail and painted the blue blazes on the trail to get hikers to come to his place to bring in business. This has been an issue that the MATC has confronted him with and he continues to ignore them and keeps the blue blazes on the illegal trail.

It is quite obvious that Bill has not care for anyone else's property. How would you feel if your neighbor hacked a trail a half mile long through your property and put blue blazes on the trail without asking you?
Okay, I didn't know that. But who's land is that out there anyway? The MATC's, the State of Maine's, or perhaps a wood company? Maybe someone told Bill it was okay and that is why Bill has not listened to you guys?

DavidNH
08-23-2007, 09:31
I thru hiked north bound last year (2006). As it was a wet day and I wanted to dry out a bit.. I went to White House Landing and spent the night.

Thompsoniac hit the nail on the head!! They really are only interested in making money... nothing more nothing less.

There is a 0.9 or so mile walk down a blue blaze trail to lake shore where you get picked up by boat. The boat ride is free but nothing else is.

Hikers are bound to be lured in by the 1 POUND hamburgers they sell..you will have heard about this for miles previously! Everything they sell is at premium price. Yes they have to go a long way for supplies. My main gripe with them is that they did not give the feeling they enjoyed what they do there. They did not seem to want to cater to hikers. At most hostels anywhere on the AT you need to partake some enjoyment out of catering to hikers. There just is not sufficient financial reward in porportion to the work involved. It may be different down in Tenesee where there are more hkers still on the trail, but surely not in Maine. If hkers are their main revenue source I don't see how they will remain in buisness long. There are only a few hundred a year going through there.

One thing regardling supplies.. you only need to be supplied to Abol bridge where there is a small store where you can get more. So two days hiking is all you have to supply for. Even so.. prices are high. And you pay extra if you pay by credit card.


Now despite what ever negative feelings I may have.. where I hiking up there again.. and it was raining..it would be hard not to go. But I will simply say this. If by the time you are at White House Landing.. you are low on funds.. walk right on past!

David

bulldog49
08-23-2007, 10:20
Okay then, I agree. But what disappointed me is that his very first post was to come on here slamming Whites Landing. Crap fire!

Everyone has a right to their opinion but when I give my opinion I better get ready to recieve back. And those who know me may respect my opinion enough to let it be, but if I just walk into a new crowd of folk and shoot my trap off I am liable to rile some feathers...........


Seems to me it's you shooting your trap off. He just reported what he experienced, no reason to believe he is making it up.

And what difference does it make if it's his first post or ten thousandth post?

thompsoniac
08-23-2007, 10:37
Oh yeah, a few more things.
As I'm sitting there prodding Bill with questions I mention point-blank that "at his prices, if a hiker really wanted to quit, he could easily charge him 50 dollars to take him to Millinocket."
Bill answered, "it's 75 dollars."
One interesting thing I noted was the total absence of hiker photos atop Katahdin. At every other Hostel on the AT there is at least a wall dedicated to these pics, as if to say, "Elmer, my hike would not have been the same without your help. Thank you."
I saw not a single one, as if nobody had ever bothered.
While there, Woodstock asked if he could plug-in his camera battery so that he could take a shot on the big K. Bill's wife launched into a long-winded excuse about how the solar this-and-that wouldn't be turned on for such-and-such and that it was basically impossible. Woodstock told her it would only take a minute, but was emphatically denied. Instead we sat in silence listening to Phil Collins on their stereo while the fridge whirrred away.
(when we got to Abol, they had a few outlets especially set aside for such needs.)
By the way, Bill's commute to the nearest food store is almost identicle to mine here in Lyme, NH. In fact, nearly everyone in northern NH, VT, ME has a long-ass drive to the supermarket. I still manage to bring (free) beers to Trapper John nearly every night.
As if all this were not enough, there on the counter, obscured by hundreds of "don't do this!" signs, sat a jar labeled "Boat fuel donations" and that Mo-fo was EMPTY!
Staggering to imagine the costs of running an outboard engine over 200 yards EVERY day! :-?
I'll save my $39.00 for beers in Millinocket next time.
Traildog

Appalachian Tater
08-23-2007, 11:00
Traildog, this thread is really about maildrops. There are other threads on WhiteBlaze about White House Landing and whether or not people liked it. As with all service providers, some people like it and some don't, and there are both extremes.

Bottom line: No maildrops at White House Landing because they do not make regular trips into town and the road is closed for weeks at a time because of mud.

attroll
08-23-2007, 11:41
Okay, I didn't know that. But who's land is that out there anyway? The MATC's, the State of Maine's, or perhaps a wood company? Maybe someone told Bill it was okay and that is why Bill has not listened to you guys?
The wardens have told him that he is not suppose to be doing this either and they remove the paint and try to remove all traces of the trail, but Bill sneaks out there and puts it back on the trees and makes the trail again. He has been warned many times. They have not physically caught him doing this. One day they will though.

gravityman
08-23-2007, 12:18
(snip)While there, Woodstock asked if he could plug-in his camera battery so that he could take a shot on the big K. Bill's wife launched into a long-winded excuse about how the solar this-and-that wouldn't be turned on for such-and-such and that it was basically impossible. Woodstock told her it would only take a minute, but was emphatically denied. Instead we sat in silence listening to Phil Collins on their stereo while the fridge whirrred away.
(snip)
Traildog

Just and FYI - the fridge is propane... No electricity needed...

Gravity

weary
08-23-2007, 12:22
But who's land is that out there anyway? The MATC's, the State of Maine's, or perhaps a wood company? Maybe someone told Bill it was okay and that is why Bill has not listened to you guys?
He's been told again and again that what he is doing is illegal. The AT corridor, which is owned by the National Park Service is at least a thousand feet wide. Beyond that the owner probably is the Nature Conservancy, but it could be a timber company. I don't have the property maps nearby.

The rules seek to keep a wild trail. Intersecting trails require permission from MATC and the Park Service. Advertising by private businesses in the corridor is illegal. White House Landing has deliberately ignored all the rules and has flatly refused to cooperate with the Maine Appalachian Trail Club, which is responsible for maintaining the trail in Maine in accordance with park service guidelines. He's gotten away with it because the only AT ranger is stationed in Harpers Ferry.

MATC has tried to be cooperative. The club has been simply ignored. However, if he persists in breaking the law, sooner or later he will be facing fines, may be even jail time. It's my hope that one or the other puts him out of business.

Weary

TOW
08-23-2007, 13:39
Seems to me it's you shooting your trap off. He just reported what he experienced, no reason to believe he is making it up.

And what difference does it make if it's his first post or ten thousandth post?
Just like LW says everyones entitiled to their opinion and he spoke his and I spoke mine. And your dern right I shot my trap off.......now your turn.......

TOW
08-23-2007, 13:41
Oh yeah, a few more things.
As I'm sitting there prodding Bill with questions I mention point-blank that "at his prices, if a hiker really wanted to quit, he could easily charge him 50 dollars to take him to Millinocket."
Bill answered, "it's 75 dollars."
One interesting thing I noted was the total absence of hiker photos atop Katahdin. At every other Hostel on the AT there is at least a wall dedicated to these pics, as if to say, "Elmer, my hike would not have been the same without your help. Thank you."
I saw not a single one, as if nobody had ever bothered.
While there, Woodstock asked if he could plug-in his camera battery so that he could take a shot on the big K. Bill's wife launched into a long-winded excuse about how the solar this-and-that wouldn't be turned on for such-and-such and that it was basically impossible. Woodstock told her it would only take a minute, but was emphatically denied. Instead we sat in silence listening to Phil Collins on their stereo while the fridge whirrred away.
(when we got to Abol, they had a few outlets especially set aside for such needs.)
By the way, Bill's commute to the nearest food store is almost identicle to mine here in Lyme, NH. In fact, nearly everyone in northern NH, VT, ME has a long-ass drive to the supermarket. I still manage to bring (free) beers to Trapper John nearly every night.
As if all this were not enough, there on the counter, obscured by hundreds of "don't do this!" signs, sat a jar labeled "Boat fuel donations" and that Mo-fo was EMPTY!
Staggering to imagine the costs of running an outboard engine over 200 yards EVERY day! :-?
I'll save my $39.00 for beers in Millinocket next time.
Traildog
Okay, I read you TD. You didn't like it there then you didn't like it there. I just choose to not agree with your whole analysis........

TOW
08-23-2007, 13:44
The wardens have told him that he is not suppose to be doing this either and they remove the paint and try to remove all traces of the trail, but Bill sneaks out there and puts it back on the trees and makes the trail again. He has been warned many times. They have not physically caught him doing this. One day they will though.
What happened to the old snow mobile trail from the trail being the way to get to Bill's place?

Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 14:02
Advertising by private businesses in the corridor is illegal.

For many years there's been a SHAWS sign with an arrow nailed to a tree on the AT near Monson. How come nobody b itches about that?

Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 14:13
For many years there's been a SHAWS sign with an arrow nailed to a tree on the AT near Monson. How come nobody b itches about that?

and recently in vermont we came upon a stream with soda cans in it and a wooden box with a register in it bolted to a tree so the LNT soda giver could get written pats on the back. i'm sure it's not ATC/NPS approved. 2 miles later a cooler appears on the trail with a sign "for thru-hikers" and a register for back patting.

weary
08-23-2007, 14:49
For many years there's been a SHAWS sign with an arrow nailed to a tree on the AT near Monson. How come nobody b itches about that?
MATC tries to be reasonable. We try to balance the need of hikers for information and blatant commercialism. White House Landing originally cAME TO our attention when the AT suddenly blossomed with a dozen blaze orange business signs. As with the trail, maintainers took them down. They immediately went back up. Then as now, White House Landing denied any knowledge of where the signs came from.

I've never met the proprietor or visited his business. But from all reports he is an arrogant ass.

Weary

Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 14:55
I've never met the proprietor or visited his business. But from all reports he is an arrogant ass.



Me and Gypsy had absolutely no problem with he or his wife. We stayed 3 days. Maybe too many hikers act like arrogant asses which causes him to be one also. A lot of hikers DO suck you know. Very demanding and such

Appalachian Tater
08-23-2007, 15:19
. But from all reports

No, not from all. They were very nice to us. I think it's amazing that they can run that whole camp out in the middle of nowhere all by themselves. I don't see how they support themselves on just the hikers now.

And people can complain about the prices, but the price to value ratio of the food was pretty good to me. Damn fine hamburger, large, prepared to order with fresh ingredients, at a pretty good price compared to any sit-down restaurant, especially considering the location.

Course, this is the Mail Drop Thread, and they can't take maildrops.

Footslogger
08-23-2007, 15:32
Course, this is the Mail Drop Thread, and they can't take maildrops.

========================================

Then again ...if you plan on staying there ahead of time you can carry less food out of Monson. A mail drop really isn't necessary.

My experience is somewhat dated but I too had a positive experience at Whitehouse Landinging, by the way. We each had a burger and then ordered pizza. There was enough pizza left over that Linda wrapped it up for us and we ate it for lunch the next day at Antlers. So ...there was another meal I didn't need to carry.

'Slogger

Jack Tarlin
08-23-2007, 15:34
I don't stay there because I don't want to break up the last stretch of the Trail with a stop.

Some folks report problems there. Many don't, like the 3 Southbounders I just spoke with a few minutes ago in Glencliff. They thought the place was great.

Quick comments:

*There will NEVER be total agreement about any place or service provider.
Even the most popular "legendary" places will get bitched about eventually.
And usually, needlessly.
*WHL is indeed an out of the way place. They have to go a LONG way to
get supplies. If you don't wanna pay their prices, then don't go there.
Pretty simple.
*Places have the right to only offer certain services for paying guests. It
happens everywhere. Just cuz a place is on or near the Trail doesn't mean
that they're under any obligation to provide all manner of free services for
hikers. Basically, you want something out there, be prepared to pay for it.
And there are all sorts of places that don't wanna hold hiker mail, or that
charge for it. A little fairness would be in order.
*Wolf is correct that there are plenty of places that break the rules about
signage and advertising and nobody really gives a damn.
*In short, it's not that tough to re-supply in Monson and hike for six and a
half days, the last 50 miles of which are essentially flat. All this bitching
about WHL is pretty silly if you ask me.

thompsoniac
08-23-2007, 16:28
All this bitching
about WHL is pretty silly if you ask me.

Jack,
While I was walking the blue-marked trail back to the AT, with a full-belly, a reciept for 39 bucks (w/ $5.00 credit card fee:-? )and a realllly bad vibe from the whole episode, I vowed to Woodstock that I would make an effort to tell other hikers of my experience.
We immediately realized that it would do no good to tell those we passed in the 100-mile (heading south) since they, like us, would have already factored in the stop for resupply.
I have been on and around the Trail since '98 and have never read a detailed account of someone's WHL experience. That said, I aimed to tell those who had the capacity to plan around it.
And this is the outcome.
Do I want to put the guy out of business? Maybe.
Do I want other hikers to enjoy the 100-mile and not be let down by the same experience I had? Hell yeah.
As you said, Wolf is right about the signs, although few businesses have gone through the trouble of carriage-bolting a massive sign to a tree, high off the ground on the Trail (As WHL did in 1999)
Hey man, all I can say is that sometimes stuff just sticks in your craw.

bulldog49
08-23-2007, 17:06
No, not from all. They were very nice to us. I think it's amazing that they can run that whole camp out in the middle of nowhere all by themselves. I don't see how they support themselves on just the hikers now.

And people can complain about the prices, but the price to value ratio of the food was pretty good to me. Damn fine hamburger, large, prepared to order with fresh ingredients, at a pretty good price compared to any sit-down restaurant, especially considering the location.

Course, this is the Mail Drop Thread, and they can't take maildrops.

With hamburgers at that price, have they lost their Miller High Life privliges, Mon Ami? :D

TOW
08-23-2007, 17:50
Me and Gypsy had absolutely no problem with he or his wife. We stayed 3 days. Maybe too many hikers act like arrogant asses which causes him to be one also. A lot of hikers DO suck you know. Very demanding and such
when i was in there i was in there with about ten other hikers, we all had a blast! but as we all hiked out the next day about three of them said something about his prices. i then reminded them of where we were at and to remember the experience.........i think that place is still as great as it was back then and perhaps i will get to find out soon.............

TOW
08-23-2007, 17:53
Hey man, all I can say is that sometimes stuff just sticks in your craw.
My apologies for my earlier rant to ya, this one made me laugh..............:D

Appalachian Tater
08-23-2007, 18:03
With hamburgers at that price, have they lost their Miller High Life privliges, Mon Ami? :D

Don't understand the MHL privileges references, they did sell beer but I don't remember what kind.

Many times I have paid twice as much for a burger half the size many and the only other differences were that they came with fries instead of chips and some of them had fresh-baked buns; none were better tasting. Definitely it is one of those trail meals I will always remember, only if just because we was full afterwards. The next day some very nice hikers hiking only the 100 Mile Wilderness gave me their leftover pizza. They were only able to eat half, but they didn't have hiker hunger.

Tim Rich
08-23-2007, 18:11
Me and Gypsy had absolutely no problem with he or his wife. We stayed 3 days. Maybe too many hikers act like arrogant asses which causes him to be one also. A lot of hikers DO suck you know. Very demanding and such

Not all reports, indeed. Here's my old post from another WHL thread. As I noted, I paid more for my burger and beers in Bangor than at WHL, and they went out of their way to accommodate us.




I'm just back from a walk from Monson to Katahdin, completing my attempt to section the AT that began in 1989. It was a hot, buggy, exhausting, exhilarating, exciting and satisfying trip. We stayed at WHL one evening last week, and I had spoken with Bill by phone before the trip, so I thought I'd make a couple of points from our experience.

Starting this year, WHL no longer accepts mail drops. Since they make only one or two trips a week into town, they were running into a problem of NOBOs mailing from Monson and showing up three or four days later thinking their drop would be there. We chose to carry all of our provisions throughout the trip, since the only other option was to spend about $100 for Shaw's to make a drop at Jo Mary Road.

Flexible/Nice vs. Rigid/Mean - We had a wonderful experience at WHL and I highly recommend it. I may end up back there someday, whether I hike the 100 mile again or not. Because it's just Bill and Linda and their 8 y/o home schooled son, they have set operating hours so they can have ample family time, which is admirable in my opinion. Lunch is 11-1, Dinner 5-6, they close the store at 7pm and breakfast is at 8 sharp. After hiking about 21 miles from East Branch Shelter plus the 1.2 mile side trail, we blew the horn at 6:15pm. Bill came right over and got us. I apologized for running a bit late and he said no problem they'd still feed us. After a one pound burger and a few beers, all was right with the world. Linda hung around a bit to get us situated and kept the shower house open after its normal closing at 8 for us.

Bill strikes me as a down to earth Mainer who gives what he gets. He was very nice to us but I can see that an entitled hiker might get told quickly to abide by the rules of the place, all of which are plainly stated. Linda was extremely nice and helpful. I can't say enough about how nice they both were to us, and how great our experience was there.

Prices - Our private cabin (the Shore House Cabin) was roomy, with four bedrooms and a great view. The two of us paid $40 each to have a bed with linens, a nice living room to relax, privacy, a shower and an AYCE breakfast that was great. The total was a little less than what we spent for a double private room and two 2X bfasts at Shaw's. I love Shaw's, but I have to say the WHL breakfast is better. For a bunk (no linens), shower and AYCE I believe it's $29.

The burgers are 6.50, 7.50 if a cheeseburger and 8.50 if you want enough fixings on them to make a small salad. They come with chips. My cheeseburger was great. Beer's 2.50, soda's a buck. They were cheaper than my burger and beers at the Holiday Inn in Bangor. A couple of other hikers loved the WHL pizza (Linda puts any leftover pizza in the fridge so you can pack it out for lunch the next day).

WHL accepts credit cards, but they charge $5 for charges up to $50 and 5% of the amount beyond that. The reason for this is that they have to get manual authorization for all calls by cell phone, and the cc processors take a chunk, usually around 4%, of the charge. All prices, and the credit card fee, are clearly posted - you can't miss them.

If you stay the night, Bill will run you a mile up the lake and beach his boat at Maher Tote Road, reducing your walk back to the trail from 1.2 to just 0.2 miles. That was nice.

Great people, great place, great experience.

Appalachian Tater
08-23-2007, 18:13
At least some of the prices may have gone up since then.

Tim Rich
08-23-2007, 18:16
At least some of the prices may have gone up since then.

Given the location, and full disclosure, it's hard for me to complain. Others may b!tch and moan, but we had a great time. Their prices are still *comparable* to other establishments in convenient locations.

bulldog49
08-23-2007, 18:19
Don't understand the MHL privileges references, they did sell beer but I don't remember what kind.

Many times I have paid twice as much for a burger half the size many and the only other differences were that they came with fries instead of chips and some of them had fresh-baked buns; none were better tasting. Definitely it is one of those trail meals I will always remember, only if just because we was full afterwards. The next day some very nice hikers hiking only the 100 Mile Wilderness gave me their leftover pizza. They were only able to eat half, but they didn't have hiker hunger.

Just making a joke. MHL has a commercial where the beer truck guy confiscates all the beer from a restraunt charging $12.95 for a hambuger.

As a free market capitalist, I have no problem with the price a business establishment charges for products or services. If I don't like the price, I don't have to buy from them.

bulldog49
08-23-2007, 18:43
Don't understand the MHL privileges references, they did sell beer but I don't remember what kind.

Many times I have paid twice as much for a burger half the size many and the only other differences were that they came with fries instead of chips and some of them had fresh-baked buns; none were better tasting. Definitely it is one of those trail meals I will always remember, only if just because we was full afterwards. The next day some very nice hikers hiking only the 100 Mile Wilderness gave me their leftover pizza. They were only able to eat half, but they didn't have hiker hunger.

Just making a joke. MHL has a commercial where the beer truck guy confiscates all the beer from a restraunt charging $12.95 for a hambuger.

As a free market capitalist, I have no problem with the price a business establishment charges for products or services. If I don't like the price, I don't have to buy from them.

weary
08-23-2007, 18:58
....Some folks report problems there. Many don't, like the 3 Southbounders I just spoke with a few minutes ago in Glencliff. They thought the place was great.
Quick comments:
*There will NEVER be total agreement about any place or service provider.
Even the most popular "legendary" places will get bitched about eventually.
And usually, needlessly.
*WHL is indeed an out of the way place. They have to go a LONG way to
get supplies. If you don't wanna pay their prices, then don't go there.
Pretty simple.
*Places have the right to only offer certain services for paying guests. It
happens everywhere. Just cuz a place is on or near the Trail doesn't mean
that they're under any obligation to provide all manner of free services for
hikers. Basically, you want something out there, be prepared to pay for it.
And there are all sorts of places that don't wanna hold hiker mail, or that
charge for it. A little fairness would be in order.
*Wolf is correct that there are plenty of places that break the rules about
signage and advertising and nobody really gives a damn....
In my mind Jack, it's a matter of ethics. I prefer not to patronize places tHAT flagrantly flaunt the rules designed to minimize commercial intrusions on the trail, even after repeated warnings -- especially a business that is in the middle of what is probably the wildest 100 miles on the AT.

Weary

Just a Hiker
08-23-2007, 20:21
Hey all! I feel compelled to chime in on WHL because I have stayed there 5 times since 2003. One thing is for sure, WHL aint cheap, but who says service providers on the AT have to give away their services? I live in Maine when I am not hiking and I can assure you that nothing up in Maine is cheap. Having said that, no one should be that shocked with their prices. Bill and Linda aren't hikers, they are business owners; therefore, they are trying to make a profit, not friends. So I guess if a hiker can't afford it, then don't blow the horn. As far as their blueblaze trail being illegal, I am not sure; however, I know their place keeps me from having to carry 7 days food between Monson and Katahdin. Take care all!
Just Jim

warren doyle
08-23-2007, 20:47
Welcome to WhiteBlaze Andrew. And congratulations on your 2005 AT endurance record (47:13:31). It was quite the accomplishment considering the weather you had. I hope to have the opportunity to talk face-to-face with you sometime in the future.

I never have stopped at WHL and I won't even when I'm backpacking through. The enjoyment I get from hiking that particular section is a morning swim in Lower Jo Mary Lake, a drink from Potaywadjo Spring, a view of Katahdin from Pemadumcook Lake, a pleasant afternoon walk along Nahmakanta Stream, and an early evening swim in Nahmakanta Lake. The nourishment I get from these activities satisfies my appetite more than a burger would (along with the help of a few Little Debbies).

Happy trails!

Biloxi
08-23-2007, 20:55
I am with wolf and jack and many others on this one..if you don't wanna pay their price '' KEEP WALKIN"..they provide a service in a out of the way place. and NOTHING is owed to you because your a hiker.no one is holding you hostage or forceing you to buy what they offer.business is business.if he were there to make friends it would be free.it's not uncommon to be at a restaurant and get a 1/3 or 1/4 lb burger and easily pay 6.95 to 10.95 and a beer anywhere from 2.50 to 4.00.and since we don't know how much food each different hiker might consume to get them to the next"cheaper" place 39.00 might not be to bad. after walking that far ..cold, wet, tired, hungry and sick of TRAIL food a big azz 1 lb burger goes up in VALUE..at least to me..I don't think you will find a .99 burger in the middle of a desert..so plan accordingly OR "keep walkin"

Heater
08-23-2007, 21:45
Too bad about no maildrops anymore.

I pay that much $9.00 or so for a cheeseburger and fries at my favorite place(s) her in Austin. Whats all the cryin' about? :rolleyes:

If I don't go it's because of the illegal trails, blazes and advertising. I'll plan to pass them by.

attroll
08-24-2007, 00:01
For many years there's been a SHAWS sign with an arrow nailed to a tree on the AT near Monson. How come nobody b itches about that?
Maybe it is because Shaw's did not illegally blaze a trail 0.9 miles from the AT to there house through the woods.

TJ aka Teej
08-24-2007, 07:45
I've never met the proprietor or visited his business. But from all reports he is an arrogant ass.

Weary
Not "all reports" Weary. I've met them and visited their business, and have reported that they seemed very nice.

TJ aka Teej
08-24-2007, 07:53
Hey man, all I can say is that sometimes stuff just sticks in your craw.
Absolutly! As a volunteer for the ALDHA Companion I know that sometimes I'm treated to a 'show' when I visit service providers, but my experience is mine and your's is your's. I imagine there an average somewhere inbetween!:D

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 07:55
Absolutly! As a volunteer for the ALDHA Companion I know that sometimes I'm treated to a 'show' when I visit service providers, but my experience is mine and your's is your's. I imagine there an average somewhere inbetween!:D

speaking pf ALDHA, who is the Companion editor? I haven't heard anything from him/her about updating Damascus

TJ aka Teej
08-24-2007, 08:00
speaking pf ALDHA, who is the Companion editor? I haven't heard anything from him/her about updating Damascus

It's GottaHike:
"Leslie Mass" <[email protected]>

weary
08-24-2007, 09:53
.....I've met them and visited their business, and have reported that they seemed very nice.
I understand a lot of lawbreakers seem very nice.

Yahtzee
08-24-2007, 10:14
I understand a lot of lawbreakers seem very nice.

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners have much more fun.

thompsoniac
08-24-2007, 11:05
Welcome to WhiteBlaze Andrew. And congratulations on your 2005 AT endurance record (47:13:31). It was quite the accomplishment considering the weather you had. I hope to have the opportunity to talk face-to-face with you sometime in the future.

I never have stopped at WHL and I won't even when I'm backpacking through. The enjoyment I get from hiking that particular section is a morning swim in Lower Jo Mary Lake, a drink from Potaywadjo Spring, a view of Katahdin from Pemadumcook Lake, a pleasant afternoon walk along Nahmakanta Stream, and an early evening swim in Nahmakanta Lake. The nourishment I get from these activities satisfies my appetite more than a burger would (along with the help of a few Little Debbies).

Happy trails!
Thank you Warren. We haven't seen each other since '98 and I believe we just missed each other recently in Maine.
Maine sure was very different than when I last hiked it in mid-june '05,(sobo).
At that time it was inundated and EVERY river and stream ford was a challenge.
I told my fellow northbounders they were getting off easy, which they seemed to ignore.
Our only real obstacle was Orbeton Stream (a critical resupply during the speed hike). One hiker was waiting it out when we appeared. After looking at the water level I thought, "This is pretty typical, let's cross."
The other northbounders looked at me like I was crazy.
Later on that night, after NOT crossing, I told the boys, "Don't be shocked if a couple of Sobo's come skipping down the trail past us. They're used to this *****!"

Gray Blazer
08-24-2007, 11:14
Hey Traildog, you passed me and my son near Burningtown Gap on your record breaking attempt. I'm sure you don't remember me. You yelled back to us if I had heard the weather report and would there be rain that night. I replied there would be no rain. That night it poured and I often wonder if that affected you, but since you broke the record, it couldn't have affected you too much. See ya.

ozt42
08-24-2007, 11:49
I stayed at WHL in July and I found Bill and Linda to be as friendly as I would expect two people who live 50 miles off the grid to be. Bill is not big on small talk and isn't terribly social, just like every other back-woods mainer I've ever met. I caught a ride out to Abol Bridge with Linda and she remained friendly for the whole trip despite some heavy logging activity that made it a very annoying 4 hour round trip for her.

Their total "illegal signage" on the AT is a business card stapled to the sign for the Mahar tote road. The trail they blaze to their dock is not blazed from the AT it is blazed from the tote road well out of sight from the AT. They are not allowed to blaze or maintain the tote road but under the terms of their lease they are allowed to blaze the trail to their dock if they don't cut trees to do it, and they don't.

There are dozens of blue blazed trails directly off of the AT cut but Nahmakanta Lake camps and Rainbow camps. One that I noticed in particular near woodsrats? spring goes straight up the ridge and is already showing signs of erosion, looks like it was blazed last year. By way of comparison the trail to the dock is out of sight of the AT and avoids anything that could make an environmental impact, it's even far enough back from the lake so the hikers don't disturb the moose.

If you are looking for hotel conditions and a friendly staff to cater to your every whim stay the hell away from White House Landing. If you are willing to pay a premium for a good meal, a bed and a shower it is well worth the expense and the side trip.

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 12:01
the problem is ozt42, thru-hikers are used to having thier asses kissed and being fawned over the whole way

weary
08-24-2007, 21:30
...thru-hikers are used to having thier asses kissed and being fawned over the whole way
Absolutely true, of course, but that doesn't excuse a decade of violating the rules designed to keep the trail as wild as possible. A recent post suggested that the White House Landing folks are getting the message -- or may be just getting scared that the cops are moving in.

I know MATC has tried again and again to get them to be more responsbile. May be it's finally working. I hope so.

Weary

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 21:31
Absolutely true, of course, but that doesn't excuse a decade of violating the rules designed to keep the trail as wild as possible. A recent post suggested that the White House Landing folks are getting the message -- or may be just getting scared that the cops are moving in.

I know MATC has tried again and again to get them to be more responsbile. May be it's finally working. I hope so.

Weary

post the rules.

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 22:12
It is a known fact that Bill illegally created the trail and painted the blue blazes on the trail to get hikers to come to his place to bring in business. This has been an issue that the MATC has confronted him with and he continues to ignore them and keeps the blue blazes on the illegal trail.

It is quite obvious that Bill has not care for anyone else's property. How would you feel if your neighbor hacked a trail a half mile long through your property and put blue blazes on the trail without asking you?

And while we're talking about the Whitehouse Juntion, let's also address the fact that it's in the middle of the place that is called the Wilderness. In my opinion, the beauty of the 100 mile wilderness is greatly diminished by having a hostel where you can resupply. It's the only 100 mile stretch left and the more we frequent this place, the easier it will be for another hostel or resupply point to pot up.

Personally I would not mind this place shutting its doors for two reasons:

1 - I don't believe there should be any resupply point or hostes in the wilderness
2 - The way it was created is absolutely incongruent with the AT.

I hope more people think about the impact and statement it makes when you visit this place - you saying that it's OK to illegally build a trail and you don't value the seclusion of the wilderness (or what is left of it).

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 22:17
And while we're talking about the Whitehouse Juntion, let's also address the fact that it's in the middle of the place that is called the Wilderness. In my opinion, the beauty of the 100 mile wilderness is greatly diminished by having a hostel where you can resupply. It's the only 100 mile stretch left and the more we frequent this place, the easier it will be for another hostel or resupply point to pot up.

Personally I would not mind this place shutting its doors for two reasons:

1 - I don't believe there should be any resupply point or hostes in the wilderness
2 - The way it was created is absolutely incongruent with the AT.

I hope more people think about the impact and statement it makes when you visit this place - you saying that it's OK to illegally build a trail and you don't value the seclusion of the wilderness (or what is left of it).
dude/dudette. the so-called "wilderness" was dotted with similar camps back in the day. have you hiked there? train tracks, roads and camps are everywhere. there's nothing "wilderness" about it. the AT was created with camps and huts in mind

Jack Tarlin
08-24-2007, 22:19
Um, have you ever been there, 7Sisters?

There are roads and road access all over the place. Calling much of this area a "wilderness" these days is kind of a long stretch. (This is unfortunate, but also happens to be true).

If the proprietors of this place have broken any rules or laws, then the local authorities can take care of it, that's their job. And hikers can decide for themselves whether or not they wish to avail themselves of the services that this place offers, i.e. they can make the same decision about patronizing WHL as they do when considering any of the hundreds of other Trailside facilities or businesses.

Nobody is compelled to go there. Those who wanna skip this place can easily do so.

Move on folks, there's REALLY nothing to see here.

The Old Fhart
08-24-2007, 22:21
7Sisters-"Personally I would not mind this place shutting its doors for two reasons:

1 - I don't believe there should be any resupply point or hostes in the wilderness
2 - The way it was created is absolutely incongruent with the AT."You obviously don't understand the history of the area at all. First, this is NOT wilderness at all and never has been during the entire history of the A.T., although some would like to believe it was. Second, the early A.T. hikers could travel from camp to camp and never have to sleep outside or cook a meal. I have early guidebooks from the 1930 that list all the camps and services available. Please get your facts straight.

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 22:24
holy poo! me, jack and fhart agree on something!:eek:

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 22:24
dude/dudette. the so-called "wilderness" was dotted with similar camps back in the day. have you hiked there? train tracks, roads and camps are everywhere. there's nothing "wilderness" about it. the AT was created with camps and huts in mind

Yes I have been thru the "wilderness" and parts of it were very dissapointing because there was a lot more access for day hikers than I was expecting. That being said, what we can control as a hiking community, is the future growth of places like WHL. As I said earlier - if you want it to become even less of a wilderness, than continue to visit it.

But realize the message that you are sending is that it's OK to build an illegal trail and what left of the seclusion of the 100 mile wilderness isn't important.

BTW - before you ask if someone has hiked a section - click on there name. You may find out the answer before you ask the question;)

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 22:27
Yes I have been thru the "wilderness" and parts of it were very dissapointing because there was a lot more access for day hikers than I was expecting.

oh christ. an elitist section hiker. imagine that. don't get too many of them. people walking in the woods for a day really suck. this i learned from you.

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 22:30
oh christ. an elitist section hiker. imagine that. don't get too many of them. people walking in the woods for a day really suck. this i learned from you.

Wolf - that's not what I said at all - Don't pick a fight based on some BS that you've intepreted which wasn't said.

I'm neither an elitist nor have anything against day hikers. Take a chill!

The Old Fhart
08-24-2007, 22:32
7Sisters-"But realize the message that you are sending is that it's OK to build an illegal trail and what left of the seclusion of the 100 mile wilderness isn't important."No one has said that at all. In fact everyone has said that it isn't o.k. to build an illegal trail. What we don't need is someone making uninformed statements that add nothing to the discussion. The ATC has made a point of referring to this area as 'wilderness" in quotes to distinguish it from Wilderness (capital W, i.e., Federally designated Wilderness).

I repeat, get your facts straight before making such uninformed emotional statements.

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 22:33
Yes I have been thru the "wilderness" and parts of it were very dissapointing because there was a lot more access for day hikers than I was expecting.

W TF does that mean exactly?:-?

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 22:37
[quote=I repeat, get your facts straight before making such uninformed emotional statements.[/quote]

Sorry but I'm not seeing what I said that is uninformed.

My point is that if you want the place to be even less of "wilderness" than contniue to visit it. People will see them making money and build more hostels. That's not uninfomed, that's economic reality.

The situation is also reinforced by how the trail was built.

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 22:42
W TF does that mean exactly?:-?

What that meant was that I was expecting there to be significantly less traffic and that once I got into the "wilderness", except for a few old logging roads, there would be very limited access and I would see very few people. I would also need to make sure I had everything I needed to get to Abol Bridge beacuse of the remoteness of this area.

It didn't take me long to realize that my perceptions were completely wrong because I saw a lot of day hikers almost each day. This completely eliminated the notion of remoteness that I had previoisly had.

PS Thanks for asking

woodsy
08-24-2007, 22:43
Yes I have been thru the "wilderness" and parts of it were very dissapointing because there was a lot more access for day hikers than I was expecting.
I've heard this before recently and am beginning to think that the AT here is only for long distance hikers.
If you don't want to be around hikers of different styles then when you get to the north end of Baxter Park set a compass bearing NW300 deg+- and have it, it'll be all yours!

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 22:44
fantasy and reality are two different things

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 22:47
I've heard this before recently and am beginning to think that the AT here is only for long distance hikers.
If you don't want to be around hikers of different styles then when you get to the north end of Baxter Park set a compass bearing NW300 deg+- and have it, it'll be all yours!


read post 133 -

Your intepretation of what you quoted was wrong.

The Old Fhart
08-24-2007, 22:47
7Sisters-"Sorry but I'm not seeing what I said that is uninformed."
1) you referred to this area as Wilderness- it isn't and never has been in recent history
2) It isn't becoming less wild, it is 'wilder' than it was in the 1930s
3) Give even one single fact to support your claims instead of making emotion statements you can't back up.

Jack Tarlin
08-24-2007, 22:50
Wow, I've heard of thru-hikers copping big-headed attitudes towards sectioners, but for sectioners to get snooty about day hikers is sure a new one.

News to 7sisters: The vast majority of hikers in this country are day hikers.

Deal with it.

And if the place evidently didn't live up to your expectations, could this possibly be because your expectations were based on ignorance of the area, its history, and its settlement?

Lastly, remember that something like half the nation's population lives within a day's drive of the Appalachian Trail. If people wanna use the Trail, even if just for a day, it ain't hard to do. If you want remoteness, then hike in the winter or hike out West. But anyone expecting total peace and solitude on the A.T. in hiker season is in for a bit of a surprise.

Pedaling Fool
08-24-2007, 22:50
I've heard this before recently ...
That was me, I'm the other day-hiker hater.:D

woodsy
08-24-2007, 22:54
post deleted due to its uselessness

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 22:54
1) you referred to this area as Wilderness- it isn't and never has been in recent history
2) It isn't becoming less wild, it is 'wilder' than it was in the 1930s
3) Give even one single fact to support your claims instead of making emotion statements you can't back up.

Firstly - I never referred to it with a capital W designating federal Wilderness land, so why are you continuing to harp on that?

Secondly - I'm curious to understand from why you would think this area of is less wild in 2007 than 1930?

Third - The very existence of places like White House Juntion, represent the encroachment on this environment and are an enrosion of it's seclusion.

Jack Tarlin
08-24-2007, 22:56
It ain't "Junction", it's "White House Landing."

As I said previously, you don't really seem all that informed on this particular subject. If you're gonna advocate that a place be closed, you might wanna get its name right.

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 22:58
Maybe ya'll need to be more careful how you word these types of hiker conflict issues.

Fair......... and may you need to take some responsibility for how your read posts and ask the question first.

Having day hikers in an area is an indication of access, and the issues with lack of remoteness, not with day hikers.

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 22:59
Firstly - I never referred to it with a capital W designating federal Wilderness land, so why are you continuing to harp on that?

Secondly - I'm curious to understand from why you would think this area of is less wild in 2007 than 1930?

Third - The very existence of places like White House Juntion, represent the encroachment on this environment and are an enrosion of it's seclusion.

you don't read well. The AT used to go by MANY similar camps like WHL. many of these camps have been torn down for your enjoyment:rolleyes:

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 23:04
you don't read well. The AT used to go by MANY similar camps like WHL. many of these camps have been torn down for your enjoyment:rolleyes:

I can read as can you.

Let's move on - none of us are going to change our perspectives on this. I have mine, you guys have yours. Maybe at some other point in time we can see what each other is saying, but doesn't look like it's going to be tonight. Seems we're all entrenched in our perspective.:-?

Jack Tarlin
08-24-2007, 23:04
Funny thing....when 7Sisters was section-hiking the A.T. I'm willing to bet that she spent lots of time planning her sections, with particular attention to distances, accessibility, starting and finishing locations, and road access. In short, I bet frequent "accessibility" to the Trail was actually pretty damned convenient to her......despite her claim that accessibility damages one's feeling of "remoteness."

Interesting how one's perception can change. But the fact is, frequent and easy access to the Trail is something that hikers find useful on a continual basis.

And this includes sectioners, too. :D

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 23:06
7 sisters is a HE. Jeffrey

woodsy
08-24-2007, 23:08
read post 133 -
I would but they all say 137
OK, truce
Friday night WB can be like Saturday night live, wild and crazy

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 23:09
Funny thing....when 7Sisters was section-hiking the A.T. I'm willing to bet that she spent lots of time planning her sections, with particular attention to distances, accessibility, starting and finishing locations, and road access. In short, I bet frequent "accessibility" to the Trail was actually pretty damned convenient to her......despite her claim that accessibility damages one's feeling of "remoteness."

Interesting how one's perception can change. But the fact is, frequent and easy access to the Trail is something that hikers find useful on a continual basis.

And this includes sectioners, too. :D

I'm willing to bet your talking outta your tail end.

One I'm not a woman, and two I used the data book to plan my sections and didn't spend a lot of time planning them.

If you would like to ask me how I went about planning my sections just ask. It's easier than you making ill informed suggestive statements about someone you don't know or have never met.

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 23:12
7 sisters is a HE. Jeffrey

Just when I was beginnig to think you didn't remember me :)

Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 23:19
Just when I was beginnig to think you didn't remember me :)

where'd you get the name? i ran a trail once in mass. the 7 sisters trail race near amherst

The Old Fhart
08-24-2007, 23:21
7Sisters-"Firstly - I never referred to it with a capital W designating federal Wilderness land, so why are you continuing to harp on that?"

Post #64 7Sisters- ......let's also address the fact that it's in the middle of the place that is called the Wilderness.

7Sisters Secondly - I'm curious to understand from why you would think this area of is less wild in 2007 than 1930?
In case you haven’t been following this thread, I have stated that there were numerous camps that A.T. hikers could, and did, use. Reread my post #67, that you apparently missed.

7Sisters Third - The very existence of places like White House Juntion, represent the encroachment on this environment and are an enrosion of it's seclusion.
The A.T. has a protected corridor and anything that exist outside that corridor isn’t encroachment, that isn’t a hard concept to understand.

I repeat, please stop making uninformed emotional statements. You have yet to produce one single fact to support any of your 'wild' (pun) claims.

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 23:26
My wife and I were in Monument Valley on vacation and we got up a couple hours before the sun rose to watch the stars and look at the sun come up. One of the constellations we really enjoyed looking at was the 7Sisters. It was an incredibly great moment during a tremendous vacation.

I chose this trail name as a way to remember that special moment/vacation and as a way to stay connected to my wife while I'm on the trail.

7Sisters
08-24-2007, 23:41
Old Fhart - please read post 87.

attroll
08-25-2007, 02:20
7Sisters I see where you are coming from and I can relate. Granted I have not done my thru hike yet and I will probably get slammed on this just like you have been.

White House Landings has illegally created a 0.9 mile trail off from the AT leading to a boat dock that goes to there camps. They do not own any of this land that they created the trail on nor did they get permission to do this. Yes this is encroaching on the wilderness and illegally at that. If it was done the proper way then I could understand. There is a reason why the AT has a 500 foot boundary/corridor and sometimes more along the corridor in Maine. It is to protect the trail. When someone creates a new side trail to the AT illegally then it defeats the how purpose of the AT corridor that surrounds the AT. Letting them get away with this just let saying everyone can do this.

TJ aka Teej
08-25-2007, 08:04
1) The AMC is going to be allowed to attach a blue blazed trail to the AT near Gulf Hagas leading to their sporting camps. I hear somepeople think the AMC seems nice. Apparently it's the size of the "crook" that really matters to some...
2) I really wish more ATers would learn about the history and surroundings of the Trail they hike.

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 08:23
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]White House Landings has illegally created a 0.9 mile trail off from the AT leading to a boat dock that goes to there camps.

if it is so blatantly illegal and the ATC, NPS, MATC all know about it, why in 9 years has nothing been done about it?

weary
08-25-2007, 08:25
dude/dudette. the so-called "wilderness" was dotted with similar camps back in the day. have you hiked there? train tracks, roads and camps are everywhere. there's nothing "wilderness" about it. the AT was created with camps and huts in mind
Hmmm. I don't remember train tracks and camps "everywhere." There's one set of tracks that connect the Maritime provinces with the rest of Canada, and one old time sporting camp in the trail corridor, but off the trail itself.

Steve Clark, who edited the guide to the AT in Maine for years, coined the phrase "100-mile-wilderness" as a way of warning people that the area was 100 miles between public roads and easy resupply points.

It is the longest reasonably wild section of the entire trail and one or two of us would like to keep it that way, since we go tp the woods to experience wildness, not a different variety of civilization.

LOgging roads have become more common as the paper industry cuts the last of the forests before leaving Maine. That is a bad thing economically for Maine, but a good thing for those of us who like to walk through wild areas.

Around 100,000 acres have been purchased by conservation groups and they are eyeing another 50,000. That's probably a disappointment for those who seek an easy trail. But I and the "Sisters" at least think it is good.

Weary

The Old Fhart
08-25-2007, 09:01
7Sisters-"Old Fhart - please read post 87."Read it. However the points you presented had nothing to with opinion, they had to do with verifiable facts which you got exactly wrong or purposefully distorted. If WHL has built a trail into the A.T. Corridor, which seems to be the case, that is very wrong, and should be dealt with immediately, but your saying that their very existence threatens the A.T. is just pure bunk.

Weary’s failure to remember the character of the trail in Maine is glaring when he says:
Weary-“Hmmm. I don't remember train tracks and camps "everywhere." There's one set of tracks that connect the Maritime provinces with the rest of Canada, and one old time sporting camp in the trail corridor, but off the trail itself.”
So for the 7Sisters and Weary, here is what the 1936 A.T. Maine guidebook has to say:

"The principal item of cost for a trip over The Appalachian Trail in Maine, utilizing the available sporting camps, is for the accommodations en route. These will be found to compare favorably with the cost of a vacation to a resort. For parties, hiking over the Trail, the cost of accommodations, including lodging, dinner, breakfast, and packed lunch, is $3.50 per day per person, with the exception of Arnold’sBig Houston Pond Camps, Berry’s Yoke Pond Camps, Clifford’s Rainbow Lake Camps, Troutdale Cabins and Sterling’s Pierce Pond Camps, where the cost is $4.00 per day per person. The rate at Bradeen’s Kidney Pond Camps is $5.00 per day plus a charge for the use of canoes. The rates above quoted do not apply to, west of Me. Highway 4; consult camp proprietor.

The accommodations available at Chimney Pond and the fire wardens or at the farmhouses are not subject to these rates and the amount paid should be somewhat lower than the sporting camp rate, depending on the number of persons.

For parties who wish to make use of camp canoes for a short time after arriving at camp, there will be no charge for canoes not engaged by other guests of the camps, unless the canoes are damaged.

There are ferrying charges of 25 cents per person at Rainbow Lake, Moxie Pond (except guests of the camp) and the Kennebec River. Arrangements may be made with Dore’s or York’s Camps for transporting packs to the other end of Long Pond. Ferrying down to the Rainbow Lake Outlet Dam or to the foot of Nahmakanta Lake, or vise versa, may also be arranged by telephone with the camp proprietors, at varying costs."

rickb
08-25-2007, 09:07
Like Weary, I don't remember that either.

Of course I am a youngster.

For Weary, 1936 probably seems like yesterday.

As such, OF is right for scolding him for his failure to remember all those facilities on the AT in 1936.

rickb
08-25-2007, 09:13
1) The AMC is going to be allowed to attach a blue blazed trail to the AT near Gulf Hagas leading to their sporting camps. I hear somepeople think the AMC seems nice. Apparently it's the size of the "crook" that really matters to some...There has been a very nicley blazed trail from AMC's Little Lyford Pond Camps to the Gulf Hagas for years. Is that the one you are talking about? The trail that was there before the AMC even conceived of buying the camps?

If so, what is being allowed? The use of blue paint?

Kudos to the AMC for protecting so many acres in that area, BTW.

7Sisters
08-25-2007, 09:23
Old Fhart -

Seems like you're spending more time trying to tell Weary and I are wrong rather that listening to the point trying to be made.

When I read the first paragraph of your post (101), I thought maybe the nights rest had had brought some openness. However, your last sentence is indicative of you either not getting my point about the LONG TERM impact of having a hostel open up in the 100 mile wilderness via an illegal trail, or you think it's ok.

So two questions related to my points:
1 - Are you trying to say that you agree with White House Landing being there and how it got there?
2 - Do you dissagree with the economic principle of supply and demand? - ie the more people that visit WHL, the greater the likelihood more hostels will open up. To me this is a significant long term threat to the remoteness of this region. There is/was only 1 area on the AT where you had to plan on bringing your supplies for ~100 miles. WHL does IMO pose a continued major threat to that.

The Old Fhart
08-25-2007, 09:28
RickB-"As such, OF is right for scolding him for his failure to remember all those facilities on the AT in 1936."As a former reporter and stickler for facts, Weary should have known better. As a point of interest, there were still plenty of camps listed in my 1953 Maine A.T. guidebook, like this A.T. trail description:

"Reach cabins at east edge of camps, then turn right between garden and cabins, reaching at 7.32 miles, tote-road from Kennebec River to East Carry Ponds at back of main camp."

TJ aka Teej
08-25-2007, 09:35
There has been a very nicley blazed trail from AMC's Little Lyford Pond Camps to the Gulf Hagas for years. Is that the one you are talking about? The trail that was there before the AMC even conceived of buying the camps?

If so, what is being allowed? The use of blue paint?
In last winter's 'We Now Own Maine!' issue of the AMC's magazine, their map showed new trails connecting to and crossing the AT. I find it interesting that the AMC's award winning Weary is complaining about a trail leading down a woods road and off into the woods to a sporting camp (I'm told the trail is there with the OK from the paper company) while trails and signage leading to the AMC's string of camps are being cut, improved, and upgraded for year-round access. Seems to me if you're agin the small guy you shouldn't be cheerleading the mega-corp developing huge upscale entertainment complexes in the 'wilderness.' YMMV.

TJ aka Teej
08-25-2007, 09:38
1 - Are you trying to say that you agree with White House Landing being there and how it got there?
Whitehouse Landing was there before most people reading this were born.

The Old Fhart
08-25-2007, 09:47
7Sisters-"Seems like you're spending more time trying to tell Weary and I are wrong rather that listening to the point trying to be made." Correction, I'm not 'trying to tell' you you're wrong, I'm using facts to 'show' you you're wrong. If you would just stop making such blatantly false statements and give me even ONE fact, I wouldn't have to point out how wrong you are.

If you are trying to convince anyone that you have a valid argument then start giving us some facts to support your claim. Every time you (or Weary) make a statement about the character and history of the 100-mile wilderness (glad to see you finally corrected that glaring error) that is absolutely wrong, you just weaken your argument and make yourself look less and less believable.

Your last post lend nothing to support your position. Point #1 is a wild statement with no facts to back it up. Please tell us how WHL "being there" is in any way legally wrong and don't come back and say, once again, that its existence somehow offends your sensitivity.

Jack Tarlin
08-25-2007, 09:54
Geez guys, isn't this horse dead yet?

The most efficient way to express one's lack of desire in supporting any Trailside facility or business is to avoid spending any time or money there, period.

Not too hard.

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 09:56
Geez guys, isn't this horse dead yet?

The most efficient way to express one's lack of desire in supporting any Trailside facility or business is to avoid spending any time or money there, period.

Not too hard.

like me talking about "civilty", you talking about beating dead horses is some funny s chitt!:D

Jack Tarlin
08-25-2007, 09:57
True enough Wolf, tho some horses, as well as horse's asses, need periodic beating nevertheless. :D

TJ aka Teej
08-25-2007, 09:58
The most efficient way to express one's lack of desire in supporting any Trailside facility or business is to avoid spending any time or money there, period.
Well said, Jack.

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 10:00
True enough Wolf, tho some horses, as well as horse's asses, need periodic beating nevertheless. :D

so you're into self-flagellation then

The Old Fhart
08-25-2007, 10:05
Lone Wolf-"so you're into self-flagellation then"Now that was funny!:banana

Jack Tarlin
08-25-2007, 10:08
Yeah, it was, O.F.!! :D For a guy with a sixth grade education, Wolf did OK in spelling. Impressive vocabulary, too! That "Hooked on Phonics!" must have sold well in Rhode Island around 40 years ago!

The Old Fhart
08-25-2007, 10:13
Jack, I just thought that on the rare occasion Lone Wolf says something funny, it should be pointed out!;)

Appalachian Tater
08-25-2007, 10:22
.... here is what the 1936 A.T. Maine guidebook has to say:

"There are ferrying charges of 25 cents per person at ... the Kennebec River."



Wow, I'm surprised no one jumped on that one. That was not an insignificant amount back then, either.

gypsy
08-25-2007, 10:33
so you're into self-flagellation then
I just thought I'd point out that Wolf is into self-flatulence:D , much to my disdain!

Heater
08-25-2007, 11:19
Geez guys, isn't this horse dead yet?

The most efficient way to express one's lack of desire in supporting any Trailside facility or business is to avoid spending any time or money there, period.

Not too hard.

Many might think that what WHL has done has far more impact than anything WD has done. Maybe if you would quit letting him needle you into responding he would quit posting the things you object to over and over again. It appears that he is enjoying himself by doing this and EVERY TIME he gets online here he does you again!

Just let it be. It's not that hard, yaknow.

weary
08-25-2007, 12:04
1) The AMC is going to be allowed to attach a blue blazed trail to the AT near Gulf Hagas leading to their sporting camps. I hear somepeople think the AMC seems nice. Apparently it's the size of the "crook" that really matters to some...
2) I really wish more ATers would learn about the history and surroundings of the Trail they hike.
AMC came to MATC and asked permission to improve an old trail that had existed for at least a century. It is now an approved side trail along a scenic river. Actually, the trail is maintained by MATC, not AMC.

Weary

weary
08-25-2007, 12:20
if it is so blatantly illegal and the ATC, NPS, MATC all know about it, why in 9 years has nothing been done about it?
The lawyers say he or an employee have to be caught in the act of painting the blazes or posting the illegal signs -- something difficult to do in such a wild place.

The owners say they have no idea how the trail got there.

If that is accurate the blazes must have been painted by some rogue thru hikers, who just happened to have some blue paint in their packs.

Weary

ozt42
08-25-2007, 13:05
What I don't understand is why people bitch about WHL with it's VERY minimal impact on the trail but don't say a word about rainbow lake camps and Nahmakanta lake camps. Both of the lake camps are fishing camps that you can drive to. The trail crosses their private gravel access roads three times between the south end of rainbow lake and the south end of nahmakanta lake. NLC has a network of blue blazed side trails to various small ponds in the area all of which depart from the AT. Of the dozen or so day hikers I passed in July all but 2 of them were guests at one of the two fishing camps and were hiking with canoe paddles to one of the small ponds. Both camps are more expensive than WHL (about $100 per person per night compared to 50-75 depending on beer intake at WHL). Both camps have signage right on the trail. The only difference I see is that WHL actually caters to hikers while the fishing camps would rather not have large groups of smelly obnoxious people dirtying the linen.

I can't wait until the AMC opens the camps they just bought to the public and begins improving roads into them. Not because I like having a fairly decent patch of woods thrown open to the yuppies from out of state but because it will gfive people something to REALLY bitch about...

camojack
08-25-2007, 13:11
Yeah, it was, O.F.!! :D For a guy with a sixth grade education, Wolf did OK in spelling. Impressive vocabulary, too! That "Hooked on Phonics!" must have sold well in Rhode Island around 40 years ago!

:p 2241 :p

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 13:11
What I don't understand is why people bitch about WHL with it's VERY minimal impact on the trail

cuz like i been sayin, WHL doesn't kiss the sensitive thru-hiker's asses and treat them special. i woulda closed my doors to thru-hikers long ago. just allow section hikers only. :)

weary
08-25-2007, 14:19
What I don't understand is why people bitch about WHL with it's VERY minimal impact on the trail but don't say a word about rainbow lake camps and Nahmakanta lake camps. Both of the lake camps are fishing camps that you can drive to. The trail crosses their private gravel access roads three times between the south end of rainbow lake and the south end of nahmakanta lake. NLC has a network of blue blazed side trails to various small ponds in the area all of which depart from the AT. Of the dozen or so day hikers I passed in July all but 2 of them were guests at one of the two fishing camps and were hiking with canoe paddles to one of the small ponds. Both camps are more expensive than WHL (about $100 per person per night compared to 50-75 depending on beer intake at WHL). Both camps have signage right on the trail. The only difference I see is that WHL actually caters to hikers while the fishing camps would rather not have large groups of smelly obnoxious people dirtying the linen.

I can't wait until the AMC opens the camps they just bought to the public and begins improving roads into them. Not because I like having a fairly decent patch of woods thrown open to the yuppies from out of state but because it will gfive people something to REALLY bitch about...
When the National Park Service bought the trail corridor in Maine excluded from the purchase were a number of existing uses and roads. I assume that what the businesses on Nahmakanta and Rainbow are doing is legal, since no one at MATC has questioned the roads.

In contrast, the side trail to WHL is blatantly illegal. That's the primary difference.

BTW the camps that AMC owns are already open to the public. Basically, what you see now is what you will get.

Weary

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 14:33
then go in and take all the blazes off and post volunteers at the junction to deter whoever tries to re-blaze

rickb
08-25-2007, 15:09
Does the ALDHA Companion mention this illegal trail, or comment on the vandalism? Or just not a big deal?

Seems like other places have been de-listed for less.

Just a Hiker
08-25-2007, 15:11
If you don't like the place, don't go there.

Just Jim

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 15:15
Does the ALDHA Companion mention this illegal trail, or comment on the vandalism? Or just not a big deal?

Seems like other places have been de-listed for less.

It's listed as Maher Trail/Maher Tote Road/WHL Wilderness Camp
it says the trail to the boat landing may change during the 07 season. sounds like they're using existing trails/roads

rickb
08-25-2007, 15:19
It's listed as Maher Trail/Maher Tote Road/WHL Wilderness Camp
it says the trail to the boat landing may change during the 07 season. sounds like they're using existing trails/roads

Sounds like they are giving hikers a heads up to look for another option-- the illegal blue blaze.

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 15:20
It's listed as Maher Trail/Maher Tote Road/WHL Wilderness Camp
it says the trail to the boat landing may change during the 07 season. sounds like they're using existing trails/roads

Both the Companion and Wingfoot give explicit direction to the camp

Tim Rich
08-25-2007, 15:47
I'm willing to bet your talking outta your tail end.

One I'm not a woman, and two I used the data book to plan my sections and didn't spend a lot of time planning them.

If you would like to ask me how I went about planning my sections just ask. It's easier than you making ill informed suggestive statements about someone you don't know or have never met.

Hey 7Sisters, didn't you stay at WHL the very same evening I did in July 2005?

TJ aka Teej
08-25-2007, 18:24
It's listed as Maher Trail/Maher Tote Road/WHL Wilderness Camp
it says the trail to the boat landing may change during the 07 season. sounds like they're using existing trails/roads

I wrote that, it's my section. In '06 the AT crossed the Maher Tote Road, and the path that led to WHL started by walking down the old forest road a half mile or so. The "blatently illegal" trail being complained about by Weary (ever been there, Weary?) was walk down a road that intersected the AT, followed by a walk through a logged area to the shore of the lake.
I'd never been there until last year, and they were (until then) the only service provider I hadn't visited at least once each year. The folks at the forest gate (it's their land) gave me a hand-out with directions, never mentioned it was "blatenly illegal," and told me to tell the family they said "hi". When I talked with the folks at the forest gate again this year they still were giving directions to WHL. Since it's their land, and they don't seem to mind WHL having a trail on it, the only conclusion I can come to is this: AMC employees like Weary are waging a disinformation offensive because they see WHL as competition, and want it to go out of business so the AMC can buy it. YMMV.

7Sisters
08-25-2007, 18:37
Hey 7Sisters, didn't you stay at WHL the very same evening I did in July 2005?

Nope absolutely not. I felt then the same way I feel now and walked past it.

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 18:38
I wrote that, it's my section. In '06 the AT crossed the Maher Tote Road, and the path that led to WHL started by walking down the old forest road a half mile or so. The "blatently illegal" trail being complained about by Weary (ever been there, Weary?) was walk down a road that intersected the AT, followed by a walk through a logged area to the shore of the lake.
I'd never been there until last year, and they were (until then) the only service provider I hadn't visited at least once each year. The folks at the forest gate (it's their land) gave me a hand-out with directions, never mentioned it was "blatenly illegal," and told me to tell the family they said "hi". When I talked with the folks at the forest gate again this year they still were giving directions to WHL. Since it's their land, and they don't seem to mind WHL having a trail on it, the only conclusion I can come to is this: AMC employees like Weary are waging a disinformation offensive because they see WHL as competition, and want it to go out of business so the AMC can buy it. YMMV.
well there you have it. much ado about nothing. as i suspected

weary
08-25-2007, 20:29
....The folks at the forest gate (it's their land) gave me a hand-out with directions, never mentioned it was "blatenly illegal," and told me to tell the family they said "hi". When I talked with the folks at the forest gate again this year they still were giving directions to WHL. Since it's their land, and they don't seem to mind WHL having a trail on it, the only conclusion I can come to is this: AMC employees like Weary are waging a disinformation offensive because they see WHL as competition, and want it to go out of business so the AMC can buy it. YMMV.
Actually, the people at the gate are employees of a contractor employed by the owners, which include AMC, a private timber company and the State of Maine -- and maybe the Nature Conservancy.

The owner of the trail corridor is the National Park Service, which has rules requiring approval of intersecting trails. I have never heard the position of AMC one way or the other -- possibly because I am not an employee, never have been an employee and my only contact with AMC is the Maine Chapter for which I edit a newsletter. To the best of my memory recollections, the Maine Chapter has never discussed the violation.

This is strictly an AT issue, not an AMC issue. AMC land mostly lies well to the south.

But since you bring up AMC, TJ, have you noticed that AMC has not tarred the roads, or built a 200-bed Highland Center in the wilderness that you told White Blazers a few years ago was eminent.. If the accuracy of the Companion in any way reflects your misconceptions about the area and AMC plans, I would urge thru hikers to try to get one of the last copies of Wingfoot's Thru Hikers Guide, which would clearly be the most accurate guide currently available.

Weary

Tim Rich
08-25-2007, 20:59
Nope absolutely not. I felt then the same way I feel now and walked past it.

That's right, I remember. My bad. We caught back up with you at the pay phone at the end of the 100 mile. It was the other section hiker we met along the way, the guy who was doing a 200 miler in Maine.

Lone Wolf
08-25-2007, 21:44
ain't no pay phone at abol bridge

Just a Hiker
08-25-2007, 21:56
Wolf, there is that goofy ''Pay Cell Phone'' at the camp store. It steals my money every time. But their microwave cheeseburgers make the loss worth it! Take care!

Just Jim

attroll
08-25-2007, 22:50
Does the ALDHA Companion mention this illegal trail, or comment on the vandalism? Or just not a big deal?

Seems like other places have been de-listed for less.
Yes The Companion does mention this in the book. So I guess they support the illegal trail blazing that Bill has done or maybe they do not know that what Bill has done is illegal. I persoannly think that ALDHA should remove them from The Companion.

TJ aka Teej
08-26-2007, 11:04
Yes The Companion does mention this in the book. So I guess they support the illegal trail blazing that Bill has done or maybe they do not know that what Bill has done is illegal. I persoannly think that ALDHA should remove them from The Companion.
Yes Troll, both the Wingy and ATC guides (and I think the AMC Maine guide and the 100 hikes guide) list WHL. Remember, we ALDHA volunteers only compile information for the official ATC publication. As far as I know there's nothing illegal about the trail they cut into the woods a half mile away from where the AT intersects the tote road. If the ATC, publishers the ALDHA guide, and people who manage the area are both giving out directions to the camp, perhaps the trail isn't considered "illegal" by the people directly involved? Our deadline for sending in updates to our editor is fast approaching, so any factual complaints about any service providers in my section (basically Carry Ponds to Baxter) should be sent to [email protected] asap.

TJ aka Teej
08-26-2007, 11:15
But since you bring up AMC, TJ, have you noticed that AMC has not tarred the roads, or built a 200-bed Highland Center in the wilderness that you told White Blazers a few years ago was eminent..

Right. You claimed I planted the story covering the AMC meeting in the Greenville newspaper. But they did buy another camp and more land after Lyford, are building multi-use trails, are building and advertising a year-round outdoor recreation complex, and (according to the work crew at Little Lyford)are going to buy another camp now owned by a top AMC official. And you're very welcome for the education I gave you about the campgrounds near Gulf Hagas and the paper company rental cabins at the N end of the 100 Mile - which you denied existed. I'm here to help you, Weary - Lord knows you need it at times.

weary
08-26-2007, 14:03
Right. You claimed I planted the story covering the AMC meeting in the Greenville newspaper. But they did buy another camp and more land after Lyford, are building multi-use trails, are building and advertising a year-round outdoor recreation complex, and (according to the work crew at Little Lyford)are going to buy another camp now owned by a top AMC official. And you're very welcome for the education I gave you about the campgrounds near Gulf Hagas and the paper company rental cabins at the N end of the 100 Mile - which you denied existed. I'm here to help you, Weary - Lord knows you need it at times.
TJ. I don't recall the details of a story in the Greenville paper, but if it included the silly speculations you posted on White Blaze, you or your source were probably behind it.

AMC is in fact building "multi-use trails" -- for hikers and cross country skiers. Do you think that is bad?

AMC has bought another sporting camp after the original purchase of Little Lyford and 37,000 acres, but I doubt if much land came with it. As chair of the Maine Chapter's "Maine Woods initiative" Committee I have urged AMC to not build new camps in the so called wilderness, but to use existing facilities so as not to change the nature of the hundred miles. So far they have followed my advice. The only new "construction" I've seen by AMC are an improved sauna and toilets at Little Lyford.

I understand plans are underway for a new lean-to north of Gulf Hagas, maybe this fall. I think this is a positive thing.

I'm still not aware of any "campgrounds" near Gulf Hagas. North Maine Woods does manage two or three very primitive campsites near Hay Brook, south of Gulf Hagas as they have for a couple of decades.

The only change is that the ownership of the land has changed to AMC.

I could and have quibbled with some of the details, but overall I think AMC's management of it's Maine holdings has been very responsible. It certainly has been better than the second choice would have been.

The land AMC has bought was on the market. No change was never an option. Other land to the north is likely to be sold soon. This land would connect AMC's holdings to the Nahmakanta Preserve, thus putting the northern half of the 100-mile-wilderness into permanent protection. I fervently hope that AMC or a similar conservation organization buys it.

Weary

TJ aka Teej
08-26-2007, 16:51
TJ. I don't recall the details
Weary, I'm sure you believe that the way you remember it is the way it happened, so there's no real point in rehashing details. The AMC has not of yet gone ahead with the most outrageous points of the original plan, and that's a good thing.


I'm still not aware of any "campgrounds" near Gulf Hagas.
Ask for a map next time you go through the gates.

weary
08-26-2007, 17:39
....The AMC has not of yet gone ahead with the most outrageous points of the original plan, and that's a good thing....
I made a dozen or more trips to Pinkham Notch while the original plan was being formulated in the months after AMC purchased 37,000 acres in the Katahdin Iron Works region of the 100-mile-wilderness.

There was no original plan anything like the plan you reported on White Blaze. During all those trips for all day meetings nothing of that magnitude was even discussed. Nor was such a thing ever mentioned as AMC leaders met with the Maine Chapter executive committee.

Actually, there was no plan at all, when you made your report. AMC purchased the land with vague ideas of offering a sporting camp to sporting camp hiking experience as had existed in the "wilderness" when the trail was first developed in the 1930s.

We spent hour after hour discussing details. Some wanted to build two new camps in the preserve a days walk apart, with a final leg to reach Little Lyford Ponds camp at the northern end of the preserve.

I argued that the club should break the lease on the Chairback Gap camps to provide for the middle leg. The club was reluctant but the idea took hold and this summer the Chairback Gap camps reopened after being a private compound for several decades.

The club has now purchased a third sporting camp and has informal relationships with a fourth.

I've been out of the loop for the past year or so. I don't know what the plans now call for. But I'm positive we won't see tarred roads and a 200-bed Highland Center type hotel in my lifetime and probably not in yours, if ever. Who knows what the future will bring as AMC and its leadership changes. But for now the AMC portion of the 100-mile-wilderness is in good hands.

Weary

Jack Tarlin
08-26-2007, 18:34
I hope you're right, Weary.

But then I never expected a multi-million dollar Highland Center-type facility in Crawford Notch in MY lifetime. I seem to recall that THAT particluar location was in good hands, too. :-?

rickb
08-26-2007, 19:05
The Highland Center is right on on a major road with 60 MPH traffic. The site was that of a former grand hotel. It is well off the AT.

Thru hikers willing to hitch a couple miles can get a great deal at the Shapleigh Bunkhouse, or visit the Brad Washburn photo exhibit free of charge (as can anyone, for that matter). The photo exhibit is world class, if you are into such things.

Most of the people who complain about its cost didn't pony up a nickle of thier own money. That's America.

The Old Fhart
08-26-2007, 19:34
Rick, While I do agree with your previous post, the speed limit on that road (RT-302) isn't 60mph. BTW, my wife and I had a nice week-end stay there a while ago in exchange for my putting on a slide show. Kind of a work for stay, so to speak.;)

rickb
08-26-2007, 19:45
Must have been a good show, OF.

Is any of it on line?

weary
08-26-2007, 20:52
Rick, While I do agree with your previous post, the speed limit on that road (RT-302) isn't 60mph. BTW, my wife and I had a nice week-end stay there a while ago in exchange for my putting on a slide show. Kind of a work for stay, so to speak.;)
OLd Fhart certainly puts on great slide shows. Let's face it. Very few people have spent weeks on the summit of Mt. Washington in the Winter as OF has. Most any photographer who has done so could put on a decent slide show, even me.

But if you haven't seen OF's show you are missing a chance of a lifetime. He is miles, decades, you choose the comparison, ahead of us primitive photographers.

However, if you are driving in the vicinity of Crawford Notch, be prepared to drive 60 or plan on how to survive being run over.

Weary

Jester2000
08-29-2007, 21:18
In my opinion, the beauty of the 100 mile wilderness is greatly diminished by having a hostel where you can resupply.

Can't see it from the trail. Walk on by, and the beauty is undiminished.



7Sisters I see where you are coming from and I can relate. Granted I have not done my thru hike yet and I will probably get slammed on this just like you have been.

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]White House Landings has illegally created a 0.9 mile trail off from the AT leading to a boat dock that goes to there camps. They do not own any of this land that they created the trail on nor did they get permission to do this. . . .There is a reason why the AT has a 500 foot boundary/corridor and sometimes more along the corridor in Maine.

Some confusion from me here. When I stopped by WHL in 2000 (great stay, nice people, thanks for asking), I had to walk up a road for a bit before the trail to the lake cut off to the left. The trail to the lake did not intersect or cross the AT. Is this no longer the case? If it is still the case, is the blue blaze trail in the trail corridor? And if it is, how do the powers that be feel about the logging activity that was clearly going on in the same area?

If, as I suspect is the case (and I certainly could be wrong), the trail is the same one I used and doesn't lead from the trail or intersect it, I guess the question would be, have they gotten permission from any of the landowners (say, the timber company mentioned by Weary) to build that trail?

Absent some sort of proof that permission was not given by one of the landowners, where they put a trail that can not be seen from the AT doesn't seem to affect anyone overmuch, I'd say.



. . . If the accuracy of the Companion in any way reflects your misconceptions about the area and AMC plans, I would urge thru hikers to try to get one of the last copies of Wingfoot's Thru Hikers Guide, which would clearly be the most accurate guide currently available.
Weary

Way to slam the Companion for no good reason at all in your attempt to insult someone. You must be proud. And don't bring up the whole conditional thing. It was still a lameass thing to do.

bulldog49
08-30-2007, 10:12
Rick, While I do agree with your previous post, the speed limit on that road (RT-302) isn't 60mph. BTW, my wife and I had a nice week-end stay there a while ago in exchange for my putting on a slide show. Kind of a work for stay, so to speak.;)

He said the road had 60 mph traffic, he did not say the speed limit was 60 mph. ;)

Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 10:19
Weary:

Instead of being so harsh towards the Companion, have you considered joining its editorial staff in order to help improve it?

I disagree with you on many things here, but I've always been impressed with your knowledge of Maine. You could offer a great deal to the Companion, and you should.

And incidentally, unless something dramatic happens in the next few months, the book you praise as being the most accurate guide currently available simply won't be available anymore, period. If a guidebook is no longer available or being published, its purported high degree of accuracy is a moot point, no?

I should also add that Weary's comments about the accuracy of the
Handbook are debatable and over-stated; for one thing, the Companion is
updated annually by folks who intimately know the areas they are writing
about, and in most cases, have hiked them quite recently. This is NOT the
case with the Handbook; many, if not most of the facilities being written
about in the Handbook have never even been seen or visited by its author;
this includes WHL, I believe. So for Weary to go overboard with his claims
of "accuracy" on the part of the Handbook is a bit of a stretch. In any
case, if the Handbook doesn't appear next year, and isn't replaced by a
better or comparable new guidebook (and I frankly don't see this happening
any time soon), then it seems that the Thru-Hiker's Companion will indeed
be the book that most folks will be using for their planning and during their
hikes. It'd be most beneficial if knowledgable and experienced hikers helped
make the next edition of the Companion the best one yet.....instead of
merely taking a few minutes to criticize it.

The Old Fhart
08-30-2007, 10:52
Bulldog49-"He said the road had 60 mph traffic, he did not say the speed limit was 60 mph.;) "Ah, picky. If you want to be precise then the reverse curve/hill section of the road from just before Mt. Clinton Road, past the Highland Center, and past Saco lake does not see 60mph traffic. The one time I know of someone trying that, years ago in winter, they lost control of the car and hit a hiker walking well off the roadway and threw him about 30 feet. The friends who saw this happen thought the hiker had been killed but his large pack absorbed most of the force, he landed in a snow bank, and was just bruised. Bottom line, it still isn't a 60mph section of road but you better be very careful crossing in the curve where you can't see traffic coming until it is pretty close. You notice I also haven't argued about Rick's comments on my slide show. :D

weary
08-30-2007, 11:07
Weary: Instead of being so harsh towards the Companion, have you considered joining its editorial staff in order to help improve it?
.....And incidentally, unless something dramatic happens in the next few months, the book you praise as being the most accurate guide currently available simply won't be available anymore, period. If a guidebook is no longer available or being published, its purported high degree of accuracy is a moot point, no?
.....So for Weary to go overboard with his claims of "accuracy" on the part of the Handbook is a bit of a stretch. ......
I think, Jack, that you missed the beginning of this particular debate. I think the Companion is a great publication. though I have always preferred the Thru hiker's guide, as a lot of long distance hikers do.

However, you missed the key word in my original comment --"If."

I said "IF the accuracy of the Companion in any way reflects your (TJ)misconceptions about the area and AMC plans, I would urge thru hikers to try to get one of the last copies of Wingfoot's Thru Hikers Guide, which would clearly be the most accurate guide currently available."

Actually, TJ's reports on trail services in Maine are excellent, so good that I'm going to forego your invitation that I join the editorial volunteers.

It was TJ's continued defense of his earlier falacious comments about AMC "plans" for the 100-mile-wilderness that bothered me.

My posts that you misinterpreted as a an attack on The Companion was really a criticsm of TJ's rather outrageous speculations about AMC plans several years ago and his continued refusal to admit to being wrong, which he obviously was, because he had professed knowledge about the plans for AMC's 37,000 acres before any plans had even been made. I described in some detail the dozen or so all day meetings at which plans for the wilderness were formulated and praised the outcome of those plans by citing AMC's activities to date.

I agree with you, Jack, -- and TJ for that matter -- that constant vigilence is needed. AMC is a huge organization. Changes in staff and philosophies may well someday bring the "Tarred roads and Highland Centers." though I doubt it. But they surely have never been part of any plan drafted to date.

TJ has refused to disclose the source of his claim about alleged AMC plans. I expect his claim came from AMC questions to the LURC staff about the extent of the agency's regulations. Questions that were misinterpreted as plans.

Weary

ozt42
08-30-2007, 14:24
I had a long conversation with Linda about their access trail and exactly what they could and couldn't do. The trail to the boat dock is allowed under the terms of their lease as long as they don't 'improve' it. They can blaze, but no tree cutting and no gravel. They are also no longer allowed to maintain the Mahar tote road. Up untill the nature conservancy purchase they would gravel the mudholes on the tote road. The disagreement with the MATC stemed from them blazing the Mahar tote road (why they thought blazing a semi-permenent gravel road was necessary or why the MATC found it objectionable I have no idea). The maintainers threatened legal action, Bill and Linda removed the blazes. The trail to the dock is AT LEAST 1/4 mile off the AT, out of the trail corridor, and accounted for and allowed in their lease.

It is a shame that two people trying to make a living by giving hikers a pleasant experience are being pilloried for doing something perfectly legal, that they have every right to do and has precisely zero impact on the trail.

Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 14:27
It is a shame that two people trying to make a living by giving hikers a pleasant experience are being pilloried for doing something perfectly legal, that they have every right to do and has precisely zero impact on the trail.

part of the reason why i'm not part of the "trail community". :rolleyes:

Blue Jay
08-30-2007, 14:44
It is a shame that two people trying to make a living by giving hikers a pleasant experience are being pilloried for doing something perfectly legal, that they have every right to do and has precisely zero impact on the trail.

I agree 1000%. I consider the service providers along the entire AT to be as valuable as the AT itself and they are much more prone to turning up missing.

woodsy
08-30-2007, 15:01
After 3 thru hikes I finally stopped at the Landing for the first time, against the advice of several buddies with previous thru-hikes. (August 2007)
Woodstock and I were doing Rangley to the K and stopped for a burger.
After a budwieser, a burger, and hiker food for one day (to get to Abol early morning) my tab came to 39 bucks.
I was equally unimpressed with Bill who barked at his family while he cooked ur lunch. After being asked about the history of the Landing, Bill unabashedly explained that his camp, originally designed to cater to fisherman and snowmobilers was a bust and that he turned to the hikers in order to make ends meet.
"Without the hikers we wouldn't be here." ,he told me.
In a single day he cut an illegal trail across private paper company land and posted signs illegally on the AT. Then he blazed the trail blue and asked questions later.
It is obvious that Bill is not simpathetic to the plight of the hiker. He is interested in the bottom line and nothing else.
I understand that there is a fine line between business and charity, but the girls at Shaws in Monson have figured out how to create both.
My experiences at each place could not be more opposite.
On another level, the concept of being shuttled accross the lake on the boat leaves the hiker stranded from the trail and at the mercy of Bill.
It was extremely uncomfortable and myself and 6 other hikers basically sat in silence until our food was ready. Then we devoured it and left the lodge quickly.
Never again.
Traildog

well here is the post that sent this thread into a tail spin. It is the few people like this on the trail that give many trail service providers a bad rap.
The chicken that bites the hand that feeds it kinda deal.
It's no wonder hostels close down and change hands frequently.

The Old Fhart
08-30-2007, 15:02
All this flak about WHL offending the 'wilderness' sensitivity of those who don't stop there and can't even see it, reminds me of the movie "The invisible Man" with Claude Rains(1933). Just after the film was released there was a pious old lady who complained that the film should be banned as being obscene because in one scene the invisible man had to have been naked!!:D :D

In 6 times through the 100-mile 'wilderness', I haven't felt the need to stop there but the next time I'll make it a point.

rickb
08-30-2007, 19:27
I am guessing Albie Polkrob's stay in Antartica would have had entirely different feel to it had he know that he could bail out to civilization most any time he wanted.

For weenies like me, I'll never know what that kind of real isolation is like.

Still, it was rather cool hiking thru the wilderness without a clue as to where any of the logging roads lead, much less the address to a full-service lodge with phone, food, and help a short shuffle off the Trail.

Today's thru hikers get something more with the option of heading off to the WHL camp-- but also something less.

YMMV.

Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 19:52
are albie and kacy still hangin' out, rick? met kacy in 86 at the DWG hostel and fell instantly in love. good folks them.

Appalachian Tater
08-30-2007, 20:49
I had a long conversation with Linda about their access trail and exactly what they could and couldn't do. The trail to the boat dock is allowed under the terms of their lease as long as they don't 'improve' it. They can blaze, but no tree cutting and no gravel. They are also no longer allowed to maintain the Mahar tote road. Up untill the nature conservancy purchase they would gravel the mudholes on the tote road. The disagreement with the MATC stemed from them blazing the Mahar tote road (why they thought blazing a semi-permenent gravel road was necessary or why the MATC found it objectionable I have no idea). The maintainers threatened legal action, Bill and Linda removed the blazes. The trail to the dock is AT LEAST 1/4 mile off the AT, out of the trail corridor, and accounted for and allowed in their lease.

It is a shame that two people trying to make a living by giving hikers a pleasant experience are being pilloried for doing something perfectly legal, that they have every right to do and has precisely zero impact on the trail.

I'm very glad to hear that they're in compliance and it is amazing what people complain about.

* The place is not visible from the trail. Anyway, the 100 Mile Wilderness is anything but a wilderness.
* The prices are made clear before you buy anything.
* There is a long tradition of this sort of place in Maine. No one's compaining about all the new AMC huts or lodges or whatever they're called.
* The place actually helps preserve the trail by keeping some hikers from tenting.

Bottom line, it's a service on the trail. Like all of the services on the trail, use it or not. I enjoyed my lunch there and was glad I got to meet the family running the place.

rickb
08-30-2007, 20:50
Wolf, you should shop here:

http://www.bluemoonsalvage.com/

Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 20:52
Wolf, you should shop here:

http://www.bluemoonsalvage.com/

perhaps i will. thanks.

The Old Fhart
08-30-2007, 21:48
For those who don't know Albie Pokrob, check out this ALDHA article (http://www.aldha.org/albie.htm) for some info. He worked at the Mount Washington Weather Observatory years before I was there so I never met him.

As far as stopping at WHL or not, its your choice whether you want the 'wilderness' without stops or not. WHL is only one of the many roads, camps, etc., in the area. You will find people fishing, hear logging trucks or SUVs driving by on the roads, or see them parked at some of the beaches they can drive to. Oh, try taking a float plane into the sand beach sometime, it is fun!

rickb
08-30-2007, 22:24
There was a time when this sign (note the masterful photography) could really get a SOBO's adreneline running.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=2506&catid=searchresults&searchid=9779

Of course those days are gone, now. Anyone with $10 to buy a how-to book knows that burgers and a bed are conveniently located ahead, and that you can have a your cache left at any number of road crossings. And that some of those roads actually lead to a relatively quick passage out of the woods.

weary
08-30-2007, 22:56
....No one's compaining about all the new AMC huts or lodges or whatever they're called......
Perhaps, because AMC hasn't built any. The reports about new "huts" were mostly just speculation -- or perhaps imagination.

Weary

The Old Fhart
08-30-2007, 23:09
Rick-"Of course those days are gone, now. Anyone with $10 to buy a how-to book knows that burgers and a bed are conveniently located ahead, and that you can have a your cache left at any number of road crossings."First, you did reference a good photo.;) Are you suggesting that guidebooks, data books, etc., are evil because they tell you what is ahead and take the 'mystery' out of hiking. You're sound like Alexander Supertramp. Also, there are far less facilities in the form of camps and services in the 'wilderness' than there was between the 1930s and the 1950s as I've pointed out from the old guidebooks.

The problem is with our (well not mine) romantic and uninformed view of what the area is and was. That won't change but if you walk thru the 'eilderness' looking for warts and blemishes, that is all you're going to see. I have always enjoyed myself there and don't have any unrealistic expectations about the area. I don't see WHL as a problem. No one has even shown that they are actually breaking any laws or rules.

rickb
08-31-2007, 06:28
Are you suggesting that guidebooks, data books, etc., are evil because they tell you what is ahead and take the 'mystery' out of hiking.Guide books evil? Of course not. Not sure where you get that.

Having a great deal on information can impact your hike though. For the better? Of course. In any number of ways the advantages of knowing what's ahead and around you are obvious.

But always better? I am not so sure.

BTW, I saw the trailer to "Into the Wild" last weekend. Looks great!

YMMV.

TJ aka Teej
08-31-2007, 08:21
TJ has refused to disclose the source of his claim about alleged AMC plans. I expect his claim came from AMC questions to the LURC staff about the extent of the agency's regulations. Questions that were misinterpreted as plans.

As the AMC's award winning Weary knows, I have several times referred to the Greenville newspaper's report (years ago, now) about the AMC's meeting with north woods users held in Greenville. Longtime newspaperman Weary has, I see, in this thread both claimed I planted the news story I said was used as a source - and claims I refused to disclose my source was the news story! Weary, if the AMC didn't want their plans reported in the local newspaper, perhaps they shouldn't have advertised the meeting beforehand - in that very same newspaper. The Republican tactic of attacking the messenger doesn't suit an old liberal like you, Weary. At least now you're confessing the AMC did actually float those plans to LURC - the plans you claim I "made up"...

Anyway: no one has contacted me ([email protected]) at all with their claims that WHL has (as Weary says) built an illegal trail. My 2008 updates are all set to be sent in to the ATC's ALDHA Companion. I welcome all input, about WHL or anywhere else along the AT in Maine.

TJ aka Teej
08-31-2007, 08:29
Weary:
>snip< I've always been impressed with your knowledge of Maine. You could offer a great deal to the Companion, and you should.

Weary, you'd be very welcome to join us Maine volunteers.
Just say the word. (And, you get a free Companion!)

SGT Rock
08-31-2007, 08:31
When is the 2008 companion going to be up?

TJ aka Teej
08-31-2007, 08:34
When is the 2008 companion going to be up?
Not for months - probably January or February if history holds.
We're just now sending in our updates, Rock.

SGT Rock
08-31-2007, 08:35
Dang, I start in January or Feburary LOL. Last years should be good enough.

Lone Wolf
08-31-2007, 08:36
Not for months - probably January or February if history holds.
We're just now sending in our updates, Rock.

i sent you a PM. i need leslie's address

Jester2000
08-31-2007, 19:40
Way to slam the Companion for no good reason at all in your attempt to insult someone. You must be proud. And don't bring up the whole conditional thing. It was still a lameass thing to do.


However, you missed the key word in my original comment --"If."

I said "IF the accuracy of the Companion in any way reflects your (TJ)misconceptions about the area and AMC plans, I would urge thru hikers to try to get one of the last copies of Wingfoot's Thru Hikers Guide, which would clearly be the most accurate guide currently available."


Can I anticipate, or what? You did bring up the conditional thing, and it was STILL a lameass thing to do.

weary
08-31-2007, 21:52
As the AMC's award winning Weary knows, I have several times referred to the Greenville newspaper's report (years ago, now) about the AMC's meeting with north woods users held in Greenville. Longtime newspaperman Weary has, I see, in this thread both claimed I planted the news story I said was used as a source - and claims I refused to disclose my source was the news story! Weary, if the AMC didn't want their plans reported in the local newspaper, perhaps they shouldn't have advertised the meeting beforehand - in that very same newspaper. The Republican tactic of attacking the messenger doesn't suit an old liberal like you, Weary. At least now you're confessing the AMC did actually float those plans to LURC - the plans you claim I "made up"...

Anyway: no one has contacted me ([email protected]) at all with their claims that WHL has (as Weary says) built an illegal trail. My 2008 updates are all set to be sent in to the ATC's ALDHA Companion. I welcome all input, about WHL or anywhere else along the AT in Maine.
TJ. You're boring people with these silly comments and claims. When you made your silly comments about AMC plans I asked you point blank what was your source. You refused to give it to me. You claimed I'd get the guy fired or something.

I may have later mentioned that you were probably the source of a Greenville news story, since you seemed to be the only person believing such silly claims. I really don't remember.

I never said AMC floated any plans to LURC. I speculated that AMC may have asked questions of the LURC staff trying to determine the details of the LURC regulations, which someone may have interpreted as plans.

I did this in part because I have learned from long experience that you dislike admitting to being wrong and I wanted to give you a plausible excuse to end this meaningless discussion.

Anyway, you said AMC had persuaded Gov. Baldacci to tar the roads leading to their holdings in the "wilderness" from both Greenville and Brownville, and that AMC wanted to build an RV campground, and a giant hotel to attract business conventions or something. I forget all the details.

None of these things have happened, though your speculations prompted a rash of "I hate AMC" comments on White Blaze at the time.

They did however prompt me to become part of the AMC planning committee. I made a dozen or so 250-mile round trips to Pinkham Notch for all day meetings among some of the club's leading administrators and officials on the oft chance that their might have been some truth to your claims. There wasn't.

But I suspect that my participation may have helped AMC to do a better job on their Maine initiative than if I had stayed home.

Getting back to White House Landing, MATC as late as last spring thought that the business was violating National Park Service regulations. MATC directors have a board meeting next Friday. If there is time at the meeting, I'll ask them if the dispute has been resolved.

Weary

Jester2000
09-05-2007, 20:02
I am guessing Albie Polkrob's stay in Antartica would have had entirely different feel to it had he know that he could bail out to civilization most any time he wanted. . .
. . .Today's thru hikers get something more with the option of heading off to the WHL camp-- but also something less.
YMMV.

Which is why folks go to, you know, Antarctica.


But I suspect that my participation may have helped AMC to do a better job on their Maine initiative than if I had stayed home.

So. . .you're thanking TJ then?

weary
09-05-2007, 20:53
So. . .you're thanking TJ then?
Well, TJ's mythical reports about what AMC planned certainly have not proven to be true.

I don't know of any evidence that they were ever part of any AMC plan.

But they did prompt me to work my way onto the planning committee. I like to think that my participation in such discussions helps produce wise decisions.

And therefore my participation in the AMC planning for its Maine Woods Initiative might have been at least marginally useful.

And if it was then certainly TJ's imaginings were at least marginally useful!

Weary

TJ aka Teej
09-06-2007, 07:26
I really don't remember.
We know, Bob. We know...

JAK
09-06-2007, 08:01
A similar think has happened / is happening to the Fundy Footpath, which is supposedly the last stretch of coastal wilderness between Key West and Newfoundland, or at least so we like to claim while promoting it and at the same time developing the heck out of it. Sure, if you go back far enough there was farms and mines and logging camps all along that coast, but the forest reclaimed all that, and now we are reclaiming the forest in the name of eco-tourism. Could be worse. Could be land developers for private home ownership. I'm sure that will come to someday.

This the the Fundy Footpath:
http://fundytrailparkway.com/fundy_footpath.htm

This is what is coming:
http://fundytrailparkway.com/phase_2.htm

JAK
09-06-2007, 08:31
Guide books evil? Of course not. Not sure where you get that.

Having a great deal on information can impact your hike though. For the better? Of course. In any number of ways the advantages of knowing what's ahead and around you are obvious.

But always better? I am not so sure.

BTW, I saw the trailer to "Into the Wild" last weekend. Looks great!

YMMV.Great point. I've often thought it would be neat someday to go sailing and exploring around the world, but without any modern guidebooks or maps or charts or elecronics of any kind. I would just make my own maps and charts and journal as I go. Nothing but a compass and chronometer and sextant. I would treat everyone I might like they were some sort of exotic and obscure Noble Savages, and claim it all in the name of Great King Louis. :)

Frosty
09-06-2007, 08:47
Great point. I've often thought it would be neat someday to go sailing and exploring around the world, but without any modern guidebooks or maps or charts or elecronics of any kind. I would just make my own maps and charts and journal as I go. I have an elevation profile of the ocean I can send you if you want it.

mudhead
09-06-2007, 08:53
Wouldn't be very accurate, for very long.

Somebody would buy it if you put a pretty picture on the cover...

JAK
09-06-2007, 08:53
I have an elevation profile of the ocean I can send you if you want it.Don't tease me. :)

See the Flat Earth clip in Yvon's Grab Bag.
http://www.yvonoftheyukon.com/main.html

erock06
09-12-2007, 03:54
Someone was slammed earlier because their first post was bashing White House Landing... I will now do the same thing. I stayed two days at WHL during my thru-hike in '06, and what started as a great experience ended very poorly.

Bill and Linda seemed nice at the outset but that appeared to be little more than a charade to me later. Early on my second day I went into the dining area to look at resupplying. Bill and Linda were back in the kitchen and obviously didn't notice my presence as Bill was rattling off everything he hated about hikers... she didn't care as long as they paid the bills. "Nice people" I thought. Somebody then sounded the horn a second time, about 20 minutes after the first blast. Bill told Linda he was going to make the hiker wait even longer now and that if the horn sounded again he would never go get them.

For the most part everything else was OK until it came time to pay. There were five of us hiking in a group and three family members had met us at WHL. They had called to reserve the bunkhouse and get driving directions. Linda gave them directions to the gate and said the gate was locked so she would pick them up... a 10-mile drive. She never mentioned a charge for the shuttle, yet it was on the bill... $90!!! $15 each for three people, each way. The real kicker was that the gate was actually OPEN when they got there. Another hiker later heard Linda on the phone to a friend talking about needing to fix the gate so people couldn't drive in.

On top of that, they also charged us $10 more apiece for the lodging than they quoted us over the phone saying it was because we rented the bunkhouse "exclusively". The bunkhouse holds eight, and there were eight of us. So if we didn't know eachother it would've been $10 less each? Not only did it not make sense, it was not what we were quoted. We were also charged $2 for sheets (which was never mentioned before).

When we brought up A) the price discrepencies, and B) the bogus shuttle charge, they both LOST THEIR MINDS! Bill was yelling at us, first saying "not again!" and then "we work too hard for this...". When we pointed out to Linda that we were not charged the prices we were quoted and were never told of a shuttle charge, she told us "**** happens". I am not making this up... I could not make that up. She actually told us that!

We ended up paying what they wanted essentially at the tip of bayonet... it was pretty clear there would be no boat ride back to the dock and no shuttle back to the car otherwise. I had no problems paying premium prices for products and services in such a place, but what they did to us was downright deceptive. Looking back, a BBB and attorney general complaint for deceptive trade practices would have made sense.

With only the one experience to go by, they could care less about hikers except for their money, and they do their best to put on a charade so they can get it. I would never, ever go there again and would never recommend anyone else to. Carry another two days of food and go to Abol Bridge.

Lone Wolf
09-12-2007, 04:14
oh well. **** happens :)

warren doyle
09-12-2007, 13:15
It happens to me about once every one or two days.
Although I produce it, I neither charge for the labor involved nor do I intend to distribute and sell it.

JAK
09-13-2007, 08:00
Is there such a thing as a Better Business Bureau for places along the Appalachian Trail but not technically part of the Appalachian Trail. The reason I ask, is no matter how bad these people might be, or how honest peoples anecedotes might be, they are still private citizens, and so I am not sure the internet is the best venue for making complaints against them, unless it is done fairly discretely. So if I did have a complaint against the White Lodge, and I don't because I have never stayed there, or if I wanted to make a more fair and objective inquiry as to whether or not I should, what would be the fairest and most objective authority to make contact with?

Appalachian Tater
09-13-2007, 08:11
It happens to me about once every one or two days.
Although I produce it, I neither charge for the labor involved nor do I intend to distribute and sell it.

You seem to distribute quite a bit of it around here! :banana:banana:banana

Lone Wolf
09-13-2007, 08:12
You seem to distribute quite a bit of it around here! :banana:banana:banana

not nearly as much as you and the trinity

Appalachian Tater
09-13-2007, 08:14
Is there such a thing as a Better Business Bureau for places along the Appalachian Trail but not technically part of the Appalachian Trail. The reason I ask, is no matter how bad these people might be, or how honest peoples anecedotes might be, they are still private citizens, and so I am not sure the internet is the best venue for making complaints against them, unless it is done fairly discretely. So if I did have a complaint against the White Lodge, and I don't because I have never stayed there, or if I wanted to make a more fair and objective inquiry as to whether or not I should, what would be the fairest and most objective authority to make contact with?

You're wrong. The internet is a great means of communicating and it's the great leveler. Each person's opinion has to stand on its own and it's worth exactly what you paid for it and the same as everyone else's. Anyone who engages the public in any fashion is fair game for positive or negative criticism.

Appalachian Tater
09-13-2007, 08:15
not nearly as much as you and the trinity

Yeah, and shelters suck and hiking poles are for weenies! Or did I get that backwards?

What's "the trinity"? Have you been converted?

Lone Wolf
09-13-2007, 08:16
You're wrong. The internet is a great means of communicating and it's the great leveler. Each person's opinion has to stand on its own and it's worth exactly what you paid for it and the same as everyone else's. Anyone who engages the public in any fashion is fair game for positive or negative criticism.

you're exactly right but your answer will not satisfy JAK. it makes too much sense

Lone Wolf
09-13-2007, 08:17
Yeah, and shelters suck and hiking poles are for weenies! Or did I get that backwards?

What's "the trinity"? Have you been converted?

Jack, Fhart and Teej

JAK
09-13-2007, 08:25
OK. But is there an authority other than the internet, for making inquiries or complaints about the White Lodge? If not, then I would agree that the internet might be the best we got. My experience with Better Business Bureaus here is that they have seriously gone down hill and ain't worth crap, so I am inclined to agree that the Wild West of the internet might be all we have. And of course, buyer beware also.

In the erock06 anecdote (sp?) did he have a legal alternative other than not paying? Could he have paid less, like the amount he felt was agreed upon, and then hiked the 10 miles back to his car. That is what I would have been inclined to do, if that had occured to me as he described it.

On the other hand, Gator Gump said in his trail journal that he had a fairly positive experience there. The owner might have been a little rough around the edges, but I don't mind that when I am basically lodiging at someones home as a paying guest, which I think is a little different than staying at someones business as a paying customer.

Is there a more objective source of information than the internet?
Probably not. So what are your options when you get into a dispute?

JAK
09-13-2007, 08:27
you're exactly right but your answer will not satisfy JAK. it makes too much senseHey, it's early in the day, so I can try new things. :)
I posted my post before reading yours. Honest.

JAK
09-13-2007, 09:02
When should a hiker refuse to pay the full amount of the invoice?
If there is a dispute over the price and/or services, what action should be taken?

JAK
09-13-2007, 09:16
Traildog, this thread is really about maildrops. There are other threads on WhiteBlaze about White House Landing and whether or not people liked it. As with all service providers, some people like it and some don't, and there are both extremes.

Bottom line: No maildrops at White House Landing because they do not make regular trips into town and the road is closed for weeks at a time because of mud.Thought I should repost this. Just noticed it.

DavidNH
09-13-2007, 09:21
Erock..I think I remember that incident..pretty sure I was there. late september '06 right? Kind of left the impression that they were nice folks..till they got crossed. Then they get rude quickly.

I would agree that this behavior you describe is inexcusable If you are going to pick some one up and there is to be a charge..you should tell them ahead of time. To spring it on after the fact...that's just too much and it's just plain wrong. It kind of shook me up.. rudeness in the backcountry.


Actually...I wanted to post here a question to everyone unrelated to the comment to Erock (which I couldn't resist including).

Ok, you've been now in the "wilderenss" for 4-5 days (less if you're fast). you get to a junction. You know from the guide book that you can walk a mile off trail, and cach a free boat ride to a camp and eat 1 pound burgers and cheeseburgers and also get sodas, and some re-supply. You are still a good two days from Abol Bridge (unless you hike really fast). You get a free boat ride back and another 1 mile walk back to trail. Also.. you have been hearing from other hikers about these 1 pound burgers for like the last 5 miles or so, maybe more. Would you really pass this up? could you? Please tell me what hiker is going to pass this up? for most hikers, at times myself included, there are three things on the trail most coveted..food food and more food. And believe me.. by this time the fabulous breakfast you had at Shaw's before coming into the 100 mile wilderness is long since digested! (what you didn't eat there? Wow did you miss out!).


DavidNH (Snickers)

weary
09-13-2007, 09:35
The Maine Appalachian Trail Club, which devotes 20,000 volunteer hours a year and raises and spends more than a quarter million dollars a year, maintaining and protecting the trail in Maine, has been battling the illegal practices of White House Landing ever since it began enticing hikers years ago.

This summer MATC persuaded a National Park Service ranger to come to Maine from Harpers Ferry to see the violations himself. The ranger personally painted out the illegal blazes and reportedly persuaded White House Landing to desist in its improper activities.

Hikers who are aware of these activities should not be surprised to discover that the business is accused of doing other unethical things.

Weary

JAK
09-13-2007, 10:21
Now that I've read about it, I would pass it up on a thru-hike or the wilderness as a section hike, but I might go there for a weekend with my family if I wanted to go to someplace nice and spend some money. I tend not to mix the two, but I can see how others might. The blue blazes might have thrown me though, and I am not sure what it says in the guide book. Perhaps another reason to pass it on a hike, but perhaps still go there for a weekend, if your into that sort of thing.

p.s. There is another thread. This one is about mail drops. I understand they don't do mail drops anymore, but you could probably arrange one if you did it well in advance and planned on staying overnight, or made an offer $$$.

erock06
09-17-2007, 22:38
In the erock06 anecdote (sp?) did he have a legal alternative other than not paying? Could he have paid less, like the amount he felt was agreed upon, and then hiked the 10 miles back to his car. That is what I would have been inclined to do, if that had occured to me as he described it.

On the other hand, Gator Gump said in his trail journal that he had a fairly positive experience there. The owner might have been a little rough around the edges, but I don't mind that when I am basically lodiging at someones home as a paying guest, which I think is a little different than staying at someones business as a paying customer.

Just a few remarks:

The 3 people needing the ride 10 miles back to the car were visiting family members, not hikers. I doubt they would have walked it in protest.


1) I have no problem with the owner being "rough around the edges"... had a few stays like that on my thru-hike but they were fair. These people were not.

2) I also have no problem with high prices. WHL is in a remote area where supplies are harder to come by so the premium is justified.

3) As somebody mentioned, these people ARE private citizens, but they ARE running a business. This is not a hostel. It is a camp with at least five different buildings that I recall were available to stay in. Hikers DO NOT stay in the owners' actual house... it is a short walk around the corner and out of sight of the camp. It is their full-time gig and source of income.


Obviously, many people had good experiences there... we ALMOST did. People just need to make sure what they will be paying for and how much it is. As a business it is their DUTY to tell a customer when there will be a charge for a service BEFORE it is provided. A $90 charge for a shuttle is something you mention to a customer BEFORE you give them the ride, not after. You don't say "drive to the gate and we'll pick you up"... that implies the ride is free. I will also point out that in the ensuing argument they NEVER claimed they told us of the shuttle charge beforehand.

Keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of their business is one-time customers, not repeat business. I think they could care less if people leave happy as long as they get paid.

MarcnNJ
09-18-2007, 01:06
I didnt stop there in 06. In 2 days you can get all the cheeseburgers you want.

Pootz
10-18-2007, 10:26
I stayed here during my thru hike and found the owners to be very nice. My experience on the trail was you get what you give. Sometimes you do not get treated as well as possible due to the hikers ahead of you.

WHL is a great place, they have a nice bunk room, good burgers and pizza, and plenty of resupply. The Price is a little high but what do you expect for a place in the middle of nowhere. Did I mention they have beer and wine !!!

the goat
10-18-2007, 11:05
The Price is a little high but what do you expect for a place in the middle of nowhere. Did I mention they have beer and wine !!!

indeed! if memory serves, i paid $18 for a 6-pack of bud.

gotta love free market capitalism in the middle of bum****, maine!:D

Shutterbug
10-18-2007, 11:19
indeed! if memory serves, i paid $18 for a 6-pack of bud.

gotta love free market capitalism in the middle of bum****, maine!:D

You paid $18 for a 6-pack and complain about the price? Who held the gun to your head?

My experience at White House Landing was very positive. I didn't buy anything that cost more than I was willing to pay. Neither did you.

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 11:22
You paid $18 for a 6-pack and complain about the price? Who held the gun to your head?

My experience at White House Landing was very positive. I didn't buy anything that cost more than I was willing to pay. Neither did you.

sounds like he glady paid it

dessertrat
10-18-2007, 11:33
If you read the history of this region, the logging activity in the 1930's was intense there, even near Whitecap. The Antlers Campsite used to be near a real camp, where people camped! There were other access trails all over the area. The Jo-Mary and B Pond roads have been there a long time, and have provided access to certain portions of the AT for a long time, as well as the Katahdin Iron Works site, and there a several ways to get onto the trail from side road around the Big and Little Wilson stream areas.

White House Landing isn't hurting anything, and I have to agree, if you read early histories, such as Earl Shaffer's 1965 trail journal, the area was less wild then.

superman
10-18-2007, 11:40
When I got to the road to WHL I stopped and cooked a ramen noodle. I was hiking by myself and it was very pleasant break. There were lots of names and messages written in the sand by the hikers ahead of me. LOL, I wonder what KSI stands for? I hiked on and ran into some of the Loud Crowd by a lake. They invited me to a party at Jo Mary Road. They had lots of beer and hotdogs. Great party. I hiked out at sun rise and got to Abol Bridge at sun down. I had no problem with WHL.

woodsy
10-18-2007, 13:20
It's probably all about attitude isn't it? From what i gather(haven't been there)
if your looking for someone to kiss your a, don't stop at WHL. And if you do stop in, be prepared to pay whatever price for goods and services without btching about it.

warraghiyagey
10-18-2007, 14:30
I stopped last year but hiked right on through this year. It certainly wasn't anything about the service. They were first rate folks in that department, show you around and then leave you to enjoy the place and their canoes and kayaks.
Had a great day on Pemadumcook and got close-ups of moose feeding in the water.
But the reason I hike past this year was that the proprietors had a very uncofortable way of airing their domestic energy with each other in front of their guests. They didn't appear to like each other, their son, or their property. And it was this same energy they used while openly soliciting the sale of the place to every hiker that came through and even had signs up around the property.
The food and service was great but the domestic energy kept me right on the trail this year and will next year too.

the goat
10-18-2007, 15:19
You paid $18 for a 6-pack and complain about the price? Who held the gun to your head?

My experience at White House Landing was very positive. I didn't buy anything that cost more than I was willing to pay. Neither did you.

no one held a gun to my head & i paid it most willingly, oh jumper to conclusions!

my experience was positive as well, where did it seem like i was complaining?

did you even read my post or are you just a bitter old man who likes shooting off his mouth.:confused:


sounds like he glady paid it

seems lone wolf's reading comprehension is light years ahead of yours.

Johnny Thunder
10-18-2007, 15:52
no one held a gun to my head & i paid it most willingly, oh jumper to conclusions!

my experience was positive as well, where did it seem like i was complaining?

did you even read my post or are you just a bitter old man who likes shooting off his mouth.:confused:



seems lone wolf's reading comprehension is light years ahead of yours.

"Tell 'im, Steve-Dave!"

Wu-Li
05-16-2009, 08:30
I had the chance to hike the 100-Mile Wilderness in 2002 and stopped into White House Landing. I was with my dad "Wu-Li", who was finishing his solo northbound thru-hike at 64 years of age.

Our couple of days at WHL were great and my dad made sure to visit Bill and Linda on all of his subsequent Anniversary Hikes. Those who are interested can read about his visits in his trail journals at www.walkingwuli.com or visit the WHL website at www.whitehouselanding.com.

emerald
05-16-2009, 12:26
Anyone who can is invited to delete this post and free up the space on everyone's screen.

Blue Jay
05-16-2009, 16:47
Anyone who can is invited to delete this post and free up the space on everyone's creeen.

My creeen has plenty of space.

Engine
05-16-2009, 16:50
My creeen has plenty of space.

How do I know if mine does? I can't seem to find it...:)

woodsy
05-16-2009, 17:29
Anyone who can is invited to delete this post and free up the space on everyone's creeen.


My creeen has plenty of space.


How do I know if mine does? I can't seem to find it...:)
What the heck is creeen anyways? does it grow on trees in Maine? Or anywhere else? :p

TJ aka Teej
05-16-2009, 21:46
I had the chance to hike the 100-Mile Wilderness in 2002 and stopped into White House Landing. I was with my dad "Wu-Li", who was finishing his solo northbound thru-hike at 64 years of age.
Welcome to WhiteBlaze! :welcome

emerald
05-16-2009, 22:59
What the heck is creeen anyways? does it grow on trees in Maine? Or anywhere else? :p

Never saw one on a Maine tree before. Creeen trees are pretty common around here, but we haven't had a good crop in quite a few years. Even when there is a heavy crop, birds eat them as soon as they are ripe. Tough to get a decent picture too since they invariably grow only on the ends of the most distal branches.

If I can get a picture, I'll be sure to post it to the gallery. Thanks for asking, I tend to forget they're not ordinarily found in other locations.

woodsy
05-17-2009, 10:23
I think someone is trying to pull the creeen over my eyes.

Alli
05-17-2009, 23:05
Hey guys, I just read this thread start-to-finish and noticed people mentioning a $5 credit card charge. Just fyi at least for Visas that is a violation of the merchant agreement (charging a fee over cash), might want to mention that to them next time you pass through.

Heater
05-17-2009, 23:19
How do I know if mine does? I can't seem to find it...:)

Probably because of the wind chill effect. :D

Engine
05-18-2009, 07:39
Probably because of the wind chill effect. :D

You laugh, but somewhere that I have yet to discover, my wife has a pic of me bathing in a 38* stream and well, you know...:eek:

bulldog49
05-18-2009, 09:54
You laugh, but somewhere that I have yet to discover, my wife has a pic of me bathing in a 38* stream and well, you know...:eek:

Shrinkage, right?

Engine
05-18-2009, 10:06
Shrinkage, right?

No comment. :D

sherrill
05-18-2009, 10:42
Shrinkage, right?

That only happens in pools in the Hamptons. :D

Engine
05-18-2009, 11:56
That only happens in pools in the Hamptons. :D

"They shrink???"

Cutter185
05-18-2009, 14:08
Hey guys, I just read this thread start-to-finish and noticed people mentioning a $5 credit card charge. Just fyi at least for Visas that is a violation of the merchant agreement (charging a fee over cash), might want to mention that to them next time you pass through.


Whitehouse landing is a RIP-OFF anyways, people went through there last year and were charged random prices for things. The cheapest I heard someone leaving there was for $78

Do the 100 miles the right way. You dont need some old couple ripping you off in the middle of the woods.

TJ aka Teej
05-18-2009, 14:55
Whitehouse landing is a RIP-OFF anyways, people went through there last year and were charged random prices for things. The cheapest I heard someone leaving there was for $78
Do the 100 miles the right way. You dont need some old couple ripping you off in the middle of the woods.
$39 for a bunkhouse room with a hot shower and an all-you-can-eat breakfast. The lunch & dinner menu (with prices) is posted right above the counter in the kitchen. Free use of the canoes. Hardly a "rip off" and certainly not "random".

And, not for nothing, this thread regarding mail drops and Whitehouse Landing has one simple answer: No maildrops.

Cutter185
05-18-2009, 15:06
$39 for a bunkhouse room with a hot shower and an all-you-can-eat breakfast. The lunch & dinner menu (with prices) is posted right above the counter in the kitchen. Free use of the canoes. Hardly a "rip off" and certainly not "random".

And, not for nothing, this thread regarding mail drops and Whitehouse Landing has one simple answer: No maildrops.

i think they said the shady prices were on the food. i dont know anyone that stayed there, most of the people just ate.

said the lady was ringing up numbers off a pad of paper with no item next to it, just prices. came out to $78 with 3 burgers, a pizza, and some ice cream.

naturejunkie
05-18-2009, 15:17
I was there last year with several other Sobos. I thought WHL was great, and everyone else there expressed the same feelings. They were friendly, welcoming, eager to help and I didn't think any of the prices were terribly outrageous.

I hope to make it back again someday and would recommend WHL to anyone.

Blue Jay
05-18-2009, 16:32
The cheapest I heard someone leaving there was for $78

Key phrase "I heard" clearly this guy has never been there and is passing hearsay.

Blue Jay
05-18-2009, 16:38
Never saw one on a Maine tree before. Creeen trees are pretty common around here, but we haven't had a good crop in quite a few years. Even when there is a heavy crop, birds eat them as soon as they are ripe. Tough to get a decent picture too since they invariably grow only on the ends of the most distal branches.

If I can get a picture, I'll be sure to post it to the gallery. Thanks for asking, I tend to forget they're not ordinarily found in other locations.

It also grows inside hiker shorts and may be related to Swamp Ass.

Just a Hiker
05-18-2009, 16:39
Whitehouse landing is a RIP-OFF anyways, people went through there last year and were charged random prices for things. The cheapest I heard someone leaving there was for $78

Do the 100 miles the right way. You dont need some old couple ripping you off in the middle of the woods.


Bashing Whitehouse Landing is old news...:rolleyes: If you don't like the place then don't go back! Their prices are plainly posted for everyone to see, so if you didn't realize that your burger was going to be $9.95, then thats your fault....not Linda's or Bill's.

Just Jim

DCMatt
06-21-2009, 10:21
I came through the 100 mile last week and wanted to comment on Whitehouse Landing. I stayed overnight and enjoyed every minute of my stay. It was me and two other hikers, each of us were enjoying our time there. This isn't a donation only type of place, it's a business. That being said I expected to pay a little extra. Everything there is ran on propane or generator. The home they live in is powered by wind and solar as well. They do have rules on things like meal times, showers, etc. I think it's only reasonable. We got there just after lunch hours so I enjoyed a Moxie and some Ben & Jerry's. I understand the stricter rules and prices based on having to bring stuff in. Should they keep the grill going all day long and waste energy? The shower water is pumped up from the lake using a generator and heated - 1 shower per guest and before 8pm. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I couldn't say anything negative about how I was treated. These folks are genuine and nice and made sure we were well taken care of. The place was very clean and well maintained.

mudhead
06-21-2009, 13:19
so I enjoyed a Moxie

Good you had a fine time. This quote just shows that we are all different.

I have been known to drink a DP, but I draw the line at mule urine.

Tinker
06-21-2009, 13:48
Good you had a fine time. This quote just shows that we are all different.

I have been known to drink a DP, but I draw the line at mule urine.

Correction: That's MOOSE urine! Keep it straight, willya? Don't want to give the mules a bad name :D

Tinker
06-21-2009, 13:54
I came through the 100 mile last week and wanted to comment on Whitehouse Landing. I stayed overnight and enjoyed every minute of my stay. It was me and two other hikers, each of us were enjoying our time there. This isn't a donation only type of place, it's a business. That being said I expected to pay a little extra. Everything there is ran on propane or generator. The home they live in is powered by wind and solar as well. They do have rules on things like meal times, showers, etc. I think it's only reasonable. We got there just after lunch hours so I enjoyed a Moxie and some Ben & Jerry's. I understand the stricter rules and prices based on having to bring stuff in. Should they keep the grill going all day long and waste energy? The shower water is pumped up from the lake using a generator and heated - 1 shower per guest and before 8pm. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I couldn't say anything negative about how I was treated. These folks are genuine and nice and made sure we were well taken care of. The place was very clean and well maintained.

I stayed there last Sept. The people were very nice. Despite the fact the father has a pretty severe illness, and seemed to be in some pain, he was very gracious the little time I saw him. I hope the son realizes just how wonderful his life is there at the lake.
I'm also glad to see a thankful attitude expressed by a hiker who realizes that, though he may pay for his accomodations, he doesn't own the place and/or have the right to make his own rules or criticize the owners of a business who have every right to charge for their services. I rented a private cabin by myself because I'm a snorer with pretty severe apnea, which can be horrifying to one who doesn't understand the condition (I stop breathing for a few seconds during an episode).

Desert Reprobate
06-21-2009, 14:06
I have the apnea too. The doctor tried to put me into a battery powered CPAP for the AT. He didn't have an answer when I asked where I'd charge the batteries on the trail. I'll just hammock on my own and try to not disturb other's sleep.

Tinker
06-21-2009, 14:10
I have the apnea too. The doctor tried to put me into a battery powered CPAP for the AT. He didn't have an answer when I asked where I'd charge the batteries on the trail. I'll just hammock on my own and try to not disturb other's sleep.

A hammock seems to help me sleep better. I have no idea what it does for the apnea. I haven't been using the CPAP lately due to allergies and sinus problems caused by the unusually wet weather here, and my doctor told me I need to go back on it. He also said that, though I might think I'm sleeping well, I probably am still having spells of apnea.

Desert Reprobate
06-21-2009, 14:17
I'm going to use one of those dental appliances. Bouncing the machine up the trail seems like too much bother.

Tinker
06-21-2009, 14:24
I'm going to use one of those dental appliances. Bouncing the machine up the trail seems like too much bother.
Roger that. Let me know how it works for you (brand name of appliance, etc.).

RockDoc
06-22-2009, 23:46
Bill can be a bit moody. He gets huffy and puffy at the all-you-can-eat breakfast if you keep eating and need more and more pancakes (he didn't see me ferreting them away into my lunch bag). He had to stir up new pancake batter twice for me, and was totally peeved about it, even though, heck, it was supposed to be an all you can eat breakfast.

And here's how to find out if Bill really likes you. Did he drop you off at the landing where the freon horn is???? Well then he didn't like you (me too).

He takes his real good hiker friends up farther north, which only takes him a minute and saves them about half a mile of walking on the rooty old access trail.

TD55
06-23-2009, 01:21
Bill can be a bit moody. He gets huffy and puffy at the all-you-can-eat breakfast if you keep eating and need more and more pancakes (he didn't see me ferreting them away into my lunch bag). He had to stir up new pancake batter twice for me, and was totally peeved about it, even though, heck, it was supposed to be an all you can eat breakfast.


"(he didn't see me ferreting them away into my lunch bag)." The guy (Bill) had to stir up new pancake batter because you were stealing from him. All you can eat means all you can eat at that setting and specific meal. You know that. You are so stupid that you busted yourself with your post. You admit to being a thief. So if you are that dumb, maybe Bill knew what you were doing but didn't want to cause a big scene over some stolen pancakes. Perhaps it's people like you that make it difficult for others.

Maddog
06-23-2009, 05:15
Seems to me it's you shooting your trap off. He just reported what he experienced, no reason to believe he is making it up.

And what difference does it make if it's his first post or ten thousandth post? roflmao!!!!!!!

DavidNH
06-23-2009, 08:27
"(he didn't see me ferreting them away into my lunch bag)." The guy (Bill) had to stir up new pancake batter because you were stealing from him. All you can eat means all you can eat at that setting and specific meal. You know that. You are so stupid that you busted yourself with your post. You admit to being a thief. So if you are that dumb, maybe Bill knew what you were doing but didn't want to cause a big scene over some stolen pancakes. Perhaps it's people like you that make it difficult for others.

TD55 Actually, All you can eat means all you can eat.. or at least it has for AT hikers for 2000+ miles. There is no sign at White House Landing that says all you can eat but only one serving. Hikers, in my view, have every right to expect that an all you can eat breakfast means all you can possibly eat. If that bothers the owners they should change their policy to charge a la carte. Personally, I found white house landing very unfriendly to hikers.


David

TD55
06-23-2009, 09:05
TD55 Actually, All you can eat means all you can eat.. or at least it has for AT hikers for 2000+ miles. There is no sign at White House Landing that says all you can eat but only one serving. Hikers, in my view, have every right to expect that an all you can eat breakfast means all you can possibly eat. If that bothers the owners they should change their policy to charge a la carte. Personally, I found white house landing very unfriendly to hikers.


David

Pay attention. Ofcourse AYCE means all you can eat. It means all you can eat at that meal time or as long as you can contiinously eat a a single setting. It means stuff yourself until you are ready to burst. It can even mean taking it to the level of , eh, can we say "emptying" oneself and "refilling". What it has never ever ment is stuffing pockets or bags with food for later. It does't mean all you can eat, plus your next meal later on down the trail.
The idea that that a person thinks it's funny, cute and worth bragging about being a sneaky thief is not something hikers should be happy about.