View Full Version : Are maps need
hendercw
04-23-2006, 22:15
Do u really need a map to get through the trail
Do u really need a map to get through the trail
Some say no, I say yes if you want an excuse to stop and rest. My favorite line to my hiking partner/brother is, "map check!"
Actually, a map can help you see how far the next water source or road is and generally help you plan your day.
While the AT is fairly well blazed, maps should always be carried. You never know when an emergency might arise. Maps are always on the list of 10 essentials. It's irresponsible to hike without them.
alanthealan
04-24-2006, 10:16
no (at least
Maps are not needed on the AT, as long as you carry the data book. That has all the info you need to hike safely, and in an emergency get out as fast as possible. With that said, maps will make an emergency situation easier, and will also provide you with fun info while on the trail. (like what that mountain in the distance is... though not too distant... the maps range is pretty much limited to what is directly adjacent to the trail)
If you want, carry them. It'll give you a much better idea of what you are hiking around. If not, I say don't worry.
Others disagree, and there is always that "what if" situation you have to think about, but personally I feel that the maps are just a luxury item. I've know plenty of people who wanted the fastest way off the trail, for various reasons, and the data book had all the info they needed. The Handbook also helped for local town info.
Patiently waiting for Iceman and Baltimore Jack to weigh in......
blindeye
04-24-2006, 12:13
peaks,
maps are one of the ten essentials, what are the other 9?
1. Map & compass and know how to use them.
2. H2O
3. Food
4. Proper clothing
5. Lighter or waterproof matches
6. First aid kit & whistle
7. Pocket knife or multi-tool
8. Headlamp or flashlight
9. Sun protection
10. Insect protection
peter_pan
04-24-2006, 12:25
I prefer a map over a guide /data book....With good map reading skills you can always find a way out of a jam...one can know pretty well where they are and what is ahead...lot of data that is not in guides and data books....and yes a map check is always good for a 15-30 second breather.
Pan
It is completly possible to hike the entire AT without maps. Lots of people have done it and been just fine. But, it is NOT a good idea.
If you are lucky, you will never get caught in a storm, never get an injury, never get lost in NH or Maine or the Smokies. If you are lucky, the databook has all the information that you need.
However, maps should be considered essential. Also, if you find yourself in a nasty storm, or get injured, in the Whites and use a cell phone to call of a resuce, they will check to see if you are carrying maps. If you are not, the likelyhood that they charge you for the rescue goes up.
Tree-girl
04-24-2006, 13:19
I only carry the Data Book, and that's really plenty. I was wondering the same thing when I started, but I've tried the maps, and they are pretty useless. If you enjoy looking at maps and stuff like that, then that would really be the only reason to carry them. I've come to despise the profiles, b/c they are always extremely misleading. It's true that you can see the surrounding area on a map, which could be helpful in an emergency, but there are so many variables to an emergency situation that you could just as easily justify carrying a stretcher as a map. :) Just my personal opinion and experience.
SGT Rock
04-24-2006, 13:35
You might never need a first aid kit and would call it a luxury, still ought to have something.
And like a first aid kit - to use it correctly takes some study and practice.
If you are going to hike for a few months, that would be a great time to study and practice.
I've come to despise the profiles, b/c they are always extremely misleading.
I think many look at the profiles with wishful thinking and don't look close enough. With every little bump comes a climb or descent which are measured accurately enough given the vertical exaggeration.
max patch
04-24-2006, 16:10
If you don't believe in maps then you don't believe in seat belts.
Throw your seat belts away!!! How many times have you really needed them? Of course, when you need a seat belt you REALLY NEED a seat belt! Same thing with maps.
As a bonus, maps are also interesting reading.
Viking (US)
04-24-2006, 16:22
My experiences with maps mostly involved someone else holding one under my nose and tapping a spot while saying, "This was where the AT went, here, about 1/2 mile back before we came down the ridge." Getting lost on the trail for me was more like getting lost on the interstate than anything. That being said, I'd never tell anyone they shouldn't carry one, simply because I've been wrong about lots of things plenty of times.
trailblazin
04-24-2006, 16:25
Personally, this is how i see it...
i can get through the maryland and virginia sections without maps any day (because i've been hikin those since i was 5). but i still bring one for three reasons:
1. Roads. in an emergency, or whatever. those maps will save your life cuz you can see where the nearest roads are, where to get a life, where a store might be, where the nearest town is etc... and believe me that WILL come in handy.
2. Some areas are not marked as well as others, and because of off-path traveling, it's not to hard to wander off if you don't know where you are.
3. The signs and posts can't tell you where you should plan to go that day, what shelters to stop at etc.. only where the next 2, maybe 3 landmarks are. so unless you can memorize that stuff, it's a good idea.
if you don't like the map itself, Mapdanas are a good substitute for a 1 state hike.
Viking (US)
04-24-2006, 16:44
My previous post should have said, ". . . standing on a trail with someone holding etc etc". All my getting lost involved taking a different trail by accident. Sorry, felt I should clarify. And as an afterthought, the profiles usually give a good general idea of the terrain that's coming up in a way no other source has.
If you don't believe in maps then you don't believe in seat belts.
Personally, and I mean no offense (honestly), I think a better comparison would be more along the lines of needing a map on the AT to be equivilant to needing a seatbelt in your driveway... don't really need it, but hey, you never know.
On other trails, however, I think it's very important. The AT is just too well marked, too close to civilization, too heavily traveled, and with too many road crossings to ever really present an honest danger. Of course, with all things, there will always be the exception, but even then, I feel maps on the AT would only present a very negligable convenience most of the time, and only very very rarely provide needed information that can't be supplied by other sources of data (data book and hand book).
Like I said though, on other trails it's pretty important. When I was on the PCT I didn't go without the maps and without having a working knowledge of how to use them (and a compass, of course).
That's just me though (and yes, I always wear my seatbelt, because the chances of me getting into an auto accident compared to the chances of being on the AT and getting hurt and for some reason needing the maps are so much greater as to be almost incalculable.). Others disagree, and that's fine... whatever works for you.
Yup, maps are a planning tool. And they can help get you out of a jam, like when a troll comes along, takes a stand blocking the way, insisting on doing the trail his way, denying you an opportunity to HYOH and you need to bushwhack around him.
Personally, and I mean no offense (honestly), I think a better comparison would be more along the lines of needing a map on the AT to be equivilant to needing a seatbelt in your driveway... don't really need it, but hey, you never know.
I tend to agree. While a map in an emergency may be useful sometimes, do you really want to bushwhack off trail if you actually have an emergency? Further injury on a bushwhack or seldom used side trail may not be the most prudent or wisest choice.
If you pay just a little bit of attention and carry the Databook, Handbook or Companion you should know just how far the nearest road crossing or town is.
The Solemates
04-25-2006, 09:29
1. Map & compass and know how to use them.
2. H2O
3. Food
4. Proper clothing
5. Lighter or waterproof matches
6. First aid kit & whistle
7. Pocket knife or multi-tool
8. Headlamp or flashlight
9. Sun protection
10. Insect protection
while i agree with your list for most trips, i typically do not take 5 or the 10 "essentials" specifically, numbers 1, 6, 7, 9, 10.
The Solemates
04-25-2006, 09:29
or should be of
while i agree with your list for most trips, i typically do not take 5 or the 10 "essentials" specifically, numbers 1, 6, 7, 9, 10.
Yup. The AT can be very forgiving. Most of the time. That is not always the case with other trails.
Try hiking the Colorado Trail without a hat & sunscreen. Or try walking in Maine in June without any bug dope. Or try walking in the Shining Rock Wilderness in the Pisgah NF without a map (there are no signs). Or hike the Hayduke Trail without a first aid kit or knife.
Try hiking the Colorado Trail without a hat & sunscreen. Or try walking in Maine in June without any bug dope. Or try walking in the Shining Rock Wilderness in the Pisgah NF without a map (there are no signs). Or hike the Hayduke Trail without a first aid kit or knife.
Yep. That's the truth. The AT is not a good trail for learning general outdoor skills. And ditto on being without bug protection on some trails! As for sun protection...unless you are hiking naked..you are using sun protection Sole Mates. :D
The Solemates
04-25-2006, 10:59
Yup. The AT can be very forgiving. Most of the time. That is not always the case with other trails.
Try hiking the Colorado Trail without a hat & sunscreen. Or try walking in Maine in June without any bug dope. Or try walking in the Shining Rock Wilderness in the Pisgah NF without a map (there are no signs). Or hike the Hayduke Trail without a first aid kit or knife.
well certainly not all trails are equal. no one should ever compromise their safety or ability to survive. i was refering to the AT though.
however, i often hike out west without sunscreen. i do take a "hat" however, except its a bandana and sunglasses. on our thru we didnt use bug dope in Maine and we were there in June. and since i grew up near the shining rock area, i do not typically take maps as i know my way around. it used to be a somewhat annual tradition to spend a few days between christmas and new years around cold mtn. and it may be stupid, but i dont carry a first aid kit either :eek: even in the backcountry of alaska...
on exception to the map thing however, is the recent hiking ive been doing on the ozark highlands trail in arkansas. i take a map and my gps. the trail is not very well marked, overgrown, and hard to follow. heck, even the trailheads are next to impossible to reach sometimes!
max patch
04-25-2006, 13:41
If you don't believe in maps then you don't believe in seat belts.
Personally, and I mean no offense (honestly), I think a better comparison would be more along the lines of needing a map on the AT to be equivilant to needing a seatbelt in your driveway... don't really need it, but hey, you never know.
I still think you are 100% wrong but that was a funny analogy.
SGT Rock
04-25-2006, 13:51
Ive driven for years and never crashed and needed my seat belt. Maybe the roads are safer than I think they are :-?
I still think you are 100% wrong but that was a funny analogy.
Glad I could ammuse :sun
The Solemates
04-25-2006, 14:07
Ive driven for years and never crashed and needed my seat belt.
funny thing...me too
i do take a "hat" however, except its a bandana and sunglasses.
Pstt! That's sun protection. Sunglasses and a hat are very much needed out here. (Hey...what is "hat" as opposed to a plain ole hat?)
however, i often hike out west without sunscreen.
Oh..yes, how "often" is often? Once a month? Once a year? Every weekend?
Just curious.
The Solemates
05-01-2006, 09:27
Oh..yes, how "often" is often? Once a month? Once a year? Every weekend?
Just curious.
well obviously not as much as you, since you live in CO. but to answer your question, i would say one long weekend trip every 2-3 months on average.
well obviously not as much as you, since you live in CO. but to answer your question, i would say one long weekend trip every 2-3 months on average.
Solemate:
You may be young, but you're not invincible. Do yourself a favor and start wearing sunscreen out west. In fact, its a good idea in the east too.
Download this PDF when you have a minute: http://www.americanhiking.org/news/pdfs/SunSafety.pdf
It was created after one of my colleagues attended a conference at the National Institute of Health on the topic of sun safety.
You can also take the American Cancer Society Sun Safety Quiz (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_7_1x_Take_the_Sun_Safety_Quiz.asp?sitearea=&level=).
from a guy who had skin cancer wear the sunscreen. I wear the maximum protection available. You don't want an ugly scar down the middle of your face because of skin cancer
The Solemates
05-01-2006, 12:16
Solemate:
You may be young, but you're not invincible. Do yourself a favor and start wearing sunscreen out west. In fact, its a good idea in the east too.
Download this PDF when you have a minute: http://www.americanhiking.org/news/pdfs/SunSafety.pdf
It was created after one of my colleagues attended a conference at the National Institute of Health on the topic of sun safety.
You can also take the American Cancer Society Sun Safety Quiz (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_7_1x_Take_the_Sun_Safety_Quiz.asp?sitearea=&level=).
i scored 100% do i get a prize? :D
i scored 100% do i get a prize? :D
A bottle of sunscreen. I'll send it if you promise to wear it.
JoeHiker
05-05-2006, 17:50
I hiked the long trail last fall and frankly without that waterproof long trail map that they put out, I would have been in dire straits. Even with data marks about all the shelters, even if I had not been planning and studying the map for a solid year, even then, having that map along was an absolute MUST. In fact, when my hike was cut short due to a snowstorm, the map helped me find an old abandoned road and hike down to the highway.
Sadly, I guess that AT maps are not as good at the Long Trail map. That thing is fantastic.
hopefulhiker
05-05-2006, 18:03
I carried maps most of the way, but relied heavily on torn out sheets from Wing Foot's book, Following the AT is like following the Yellow Brick Rd.... What were all those little lines on the maps anyway?
mountain squid
05-05-2006, 19:28
I always carry maps. The current map I keep in my pants side-pocket for quick access. Aside from the obvious uses, when I encounter someone new on the trail I annotate their trail name with the date and place that I met them on the map. Additionally, so I wouldn't have to carry the Companion/Wingfoot, I transcribed the data (incl town maps) from the Companion directly onto the map (used a Sharpie permanent marker). Yes, it took awhile, but it was part of the planning process for me...
Now, to answer the question. Technically, no, you don't need to carry the maps on the AT. Of course, in addition to reasons already stated, you might consider it to avoid being a nuisance to everyone who does. (Questions you might frequently be asking if you don't carry maps/databook - How far to the next shelter? Where is the next water source? What is the next town/hostel? What do the uphills/downhills look like today? etc, etc, etc.)
See you on the trail,
mt squid
The Solemates
05-08-2006, 09:38
A bottle of sunscreen. I'll send it if you promise to wear it.
:D I do wear sunscreen while at the beach or lake...but probably not enough while I am hiking because I dont like to carry it....but perhaps youve changed me mowgli...;)
well obviously not as much as you, since you live in CO. but to answer your question, i would say one long weekend trip every 2-3 months on average.
Ah..so you do a 4 day trip MAYBE 6 times a year on the high side. Not exactly "often". I'm going to give a lesson on dinner parties..for I "often" cook for many people...at least once or twice a year. :)
Unless you know something about UV radiation I don't...you should wear some kind of sun protection.
You have a science background. Use your noggin!
The Solemates
05-08-2006, 14:39
Ah..so you do a 4 day trip MAYBE 6 times a year on the high side. Not exactly "often". I'm going to give a lesson on dinner parties..for I "often" cook for many people...at least once or twice a year. :)
Unless you know something about UV radiation I don't...you should wear some kind of sun protection.
You have a science background. Use your noggin!
ok, so now lets argue over the definition of often. :rolleyes: give me a break. i consider 6 times a year often since I live in TN, but whatever oh great hiker mags...:)
mnof1000v
05-08-2006, 15:46
No. Trust me on this one. All you will ever really use on them is the elevation profiles. However, if you feel your pack is light enough, or you just can't face the idea of going without, carry them.
ok, so now lets argue over the definition of often. :rolleyes: give me a break. i consider 6 times a year often since I live in TN, but whatever oh great hiker mags...:)
Well, since you were so cocky about not needing sun protection, thought I'd give it back to you.
Frankly, I'd be very surprised if you are out pass the 100th meridian even six times a yeart. Truthfully..how often do really come out here?
To put it bluntly, I don't think you have scientific lleg to stand on for your opinion..nor do you have the experience to back it up. So I called you on it.
Yeah..this is blunt and direct...but when you have a message full of more holes than swiss cheese..well, whatchya gonna do?
The Solemates
05-08-2006, 18:57
Well, since you were so cocky about not needing sun protection, thought I'd give it back to you.
Frankly, I'd be very surprised if you are out pass the 100th meridian even six times a yeart. Truthfully..how often do really come out here?
To put it bluntly, I don't think you have scientific lleg to stand on for your opinion..nor do you have the experience to back it up. So I called you on it.
Yeah..this is blunt and direct...but when you have a message full of more holes than swiss cheese..well, whatchya gonna do?
i dont know what your problem is today mags, but back at ya, bluntly, is our hiking trip locations west of the 100th meridian in the last 14 months:
New Mexico
Texas
California
Alaska
Utah
Colorado
Last time I counted, that was 6. happy? :rolleyes:
and we have trips planned this summer for hiking near the CA/NV border and hiking in Idaho, not to mention we usually go skiing out west every year and are planning on going to Oregon to do just that this next winter. you see, we are peakbaggers and skiers as well as hikers, so that brings us "out west" what I would call "often" for someone living in the east. i cant even believe I am saying all this...this is ridiculous.
piss... piss... piss... it's a contest?
OK, cut it out you two, and grow the **** up already.
I think this thread should be split into three. Are maps needed, how often is often, and, should sun screen be worn out west? :)
Skidsteer
05-08-2006, 19:23
I think this thread should be split into three.
Are maps needed,
Depends if you're a man or a woman.
how often is often,
Depends if you're a man or a woman.
and, should sun screen be worn out west? :)
Hmmm... How would I know? I've never been west of Big Bend in TX. :D
Lone Wolf
05-08-2006, 19:41
Do u really need a map to get through the trail
Pretty ***n dumb to hike without knowing where you're going or where you are. So yeah, carry maps.
I certainly wouldn't drive from Georgia to Maine without a map, I'm not going to walk without one either.
Alligator
05-08-2006, 22:25
I certainly wouldn't drive from Georgia to Maine without a map, I'm not going to walk without one either.
Just hop on 95N, it'll take you there:banana .
J/K I always carry a map.
The Solemates
05-09-2006, 08:54
Depends if you're a man or a woman.
Depends if you're a man or a woman.
not sure if everyone caught this, but that was funny :D
No. Trust me on this one. All you will ever really use on them is the elevation profiles. However, if you feel your pack is light enough, or you just can't face the idea of going without, carry them.
Horrible advice, and completly inacurate.
Just another quick story about why u should carry a map. In late fall 3 years ago, a woman died in her husbands arms on Franconia Ridge in a snowstorm. The got to the top of Lafayette, a mountain they had been on several times. In the snow, they got disoriented and ended up on the AT Northbound instead of heading down. When they got to the Skoomunchuck Trail sign, the realized their mistake but didn't want to head back UP the mountain. They also didn't want to head DOWN the trail since they were worried it might take them deeper into the woods. They didn't have a map. If they did, the would have seen that the trail would have lead them to US Route 3 in about 4 miles. Instead, they decided to try to wait the storm out and go down the route that they knew. The woman ended up dying. So if you think that a few extra bucks and a few extra ounces isn't worth that kind of information, fine. But don't go telling other people that maps are useless, because that is just false.
Jack Tarlin
05-09-2006, 10:59
Chomp's comments are 100% on the mark.
And stories like the one he related happen much more often than you might imagine.
Footslogger
05-09-2006, 11:06
Maps should be treated like items you carry in your first aid kit. You MIGHT not need them but you wouldn't want to be caught without them in an emergency.
I'll be the first to admit that I didn't use maps all the time during my 2003 thru, or any other time I did sections on the AT. However, the few times I really DID need them I was darned glad they were in my pack.
It is always a good idea to know what is AROUND the trail and not just what is ON the trail, just in case you have to bushwhack your way to the nearest road for assistance.
'Slogger
ii cant even believe I am saying all this...this is ridiculous.
You are right. It is ridiculous. We like arguing too much. Let's shake virtiual hands...
:D
piss... piss... piss... it's a contest?
OK, cut it out you two, and grow the **** up already.
I admit it ..I went overboard with my badgering..
Call it legacy from the debate team. Nasty habbit. But when people make claims that seem "diferent"...well, I gotta know if they stand up or not.
My apologies.
The Solemates
05-09-2006, 12:05
hmm... I admire you. Must be great to have the time to travel like that with gas and air fair prices so high like that now a days. And with your job/schooling as well. Making the time like that.
Pretty impressive fitting it all in like. Plus how active you are out East. Phew! :D
Despite your sarcasm, you are correct. We are very fortunate to have the jobs we have. We travel with our jobs too, so sometimes tack on trips to the end or beginning of those travels. We sometimes use frequent flyer miles, and our car gets almost 40 miles to the gallon, so air fare and gas are not as bad as they are for many people. Both my wife and I work in atmospheres where we may work 80 hours one week and 30 hours the next week. On those 30 hour weeks, we usually travel. Two weeks ago I had worked a 40-hour week by Wednesday at noon. Last Friday my wife worked a 19-hour shift. But thats okay, because we have long weekend trips planned for the next 4 weekends, and we cant wait.
The Solemates
05-09-2006, 12:07
I admit it ..I went overboard with my badgering..
Call it legacy from the debate team. Nasty habbit. But when people make claims that seem "diferent"...well, I gotta know if they stand up or not.
My apologies.
Even if you werent really apologizing to me and just to Ender, its no problem Mags. The internet often brings about false intentions.
Alas, I did not edit my message in time. I deleted it. You replied before I turned into an apology.
The offer to shake hands is still there. :)
Seriously..