View Full Version : barney fife of the a.t. II
once again, i have been harassed by the nazi ridgerunners in the smokies. At Spence Field Shelter this month, ridgerunner "Carl" was quite insistent that I produce my permit for his inspection. There was no preamble to his request, no attempt to "educate" me on the reservation system in the park. He started our conversation by saying, "Let me see your permit." He backed off only after I noted that he had no authority to make such a demand. Earlier, at the Happy Hiker store in Gatlinburg, ridgerunner "Shatter" also demanded to know whether I had a permit. It didn't seem to matter to him that we weren't even on the damn trail. So I complained to the ATC, pointing out that it's unwise for ridgerunners to act like law-enforcement officers in the park. I asked ridgerunner Carl why he was demanding to see permits. He said the park's backcountry rangers had asked him to do this for them. Whenever he passes a hiker on the trail, apparently, Carl demands to see that hiker's permit. Having ridgerunners assume the role of law-enforcement officers can only lead to trouble. In reply to my complaint, the ATC stated that ridgerunners in the smokies are supposed to "ask visitors if they have a permit, and then use that as the beginning of a discussion of the permit system, why it exists and how it improves the visitor experience for everyone. They are supposed to be using this discussion to address issues regarding appropriate trail use. As with all interactions with the hiking public, they’re told to do so in a non-confrontational, educational way." The ATC says it's going to look into whether the Smokies ridgerunners need a little retraining. I urge all you WB members not to let the Smokies ridgerunners get away with this abusive behavior. Stand up for your rights. When they corner you on the trail and order you to turn over your permit, tell them to back off. This is an important issue. What's next? Will they start searching our backpacks for marijuana or other such contraband? If we stand together, we can reclaim our right to a peaceful hike in the park. Thank you.
wow, the ones I have ran into have never asked about a permit. Sorry to hear you're having problems.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-28-2006, 15:36
I've hear there are a few over zealous ridgerunners in the Smokies. As Mingo notes, ridgerunners don't need to be acting like law enforcement officers - some of the local boys on both sides of the mountain can get pretty rowdy - they're liable to clean their clocks or worse.
Once two strangers climbed ol' Rocky Top
Lookin' for a moonshine still
Strangers ain't come down from Rocky Top
Reckon they never will
Pacific Tortuga
04-28-2006, 16:29
Ridgerunners stopping a Ernest T. Bass or helping Otis Campbell to bed in a shelter I can understand but being a Barnry. I guess your lucky he didn't write you up for "attempting to incite a riot' or more so he was lucky.This is not funny to you I'm sure but I cant think of Curly or Fife without grin'in a little,glad you knew your rights.
once again, i have been harassed by the nazi ridgerunners in the smokies. At Spence Field Shelter this month, ridgerunner "Carl" was quite insistent that I produce my permit for his inspection. There was no preamble to his request, no attempt to "educate" me on the reservation system in the park. He started our conversation by saying, "Let me see your permit." He backed off only after I noted that he had no authority to make such a demand. Earlier, at the Happy Hiker store in Gatlinburg, ridgerunner "Shatter" also demanded to know whether I had a permit. It didn't seem to matter to him that we weren't even on the damn trail. So I complained to the ATC, pointing out that it's unwise for ridgerunners to act like law-enforcement officers in the park. I asked ridgerunner Carl why he was demanding to see permits. He said the park's backcountry rangers had asked him to do this for them. Whenever he passes a hiker on the trail, apparently, Carl demands to see that hiker's permit. Having ridgerunners assume the role of law-enforcement officers can only lead to trouble. In reply to my complaint, the ATC stated that ridgerunners in the smokies are supposed to "ask visitors if they have a permit, and then use that as the beginning of a discussion of the permit system, why it exists and how it improves the visitor experience for everyone. They are supposed to be using this discussion to address issues regarding appropriate trail use. As with all interactions with the hiking public, they’re told to do so in a non-confrontational, educational way." The ATC says it's going to look into whether the Smokies ridgerunners need a little retraining. I urge all you WB members not to let the Smokies ridgerunners get away with this abusive behavior. Stand up for your rights. When they corner you on the trail and order you to turn over your permit, tell them to back off. This is an important issue. What's next? Will they start searching our backpacks for marijuana or other such contraband? If we stand together, we can reclaim our right to a peaceful hike in the park. Thank you.
i think your full of crap...........right now i am in a house full of hikers and they say they never had a bit of problem coming thru the smokies.........it's funny that you posted because i was just talking about you posting not too long ago about ridgerunner glenn reynolds in the exact same spot..........
rusty075
04-28-2006, 17:04
I had conversations with both Carl and Shatter during my pass through the Smokies. Both were friendly, and pleasant, and neither asked to see a permit. Carl did ask myself and a couple of companions, in passing, "Ya'll got your permits, right?", and when one of the group offered to dig his out Carl told him not to go through the trouble, that he was just asking "to make sure you wouldn't have any trouble with the rangers up ahead". (who didn't ask us for permits either) None of the dozen or so thru-hikers who were making the transverse at the same time I was reported ever having been asked to produce their permits, by anyone, ridgerunner or otherwise. In fact we had a conversation at Standing Bear about how useless the permit system was, since no one ever checked them.
Mingo, isn't this the second year in a row you've started this thread? And wasn't your thread last year met with a chorus of "it didn't happen to me" 's? What are you doing to make all these ridgerunners go gunning for you, and no one else? :-?
Footslogger
04-28-2006, 17:16
I'm guessing that they may have hassled you because the permit wasn't being openly displayed. Not saying they were justified in doing what they did but I think I remember something to the effect that the permit is supposed to be hanging from the pack in open view ...not that many hikers actually do that.
'Slogger
Mingo, for the sake of discussing your complaint, I would like to ask you two questions: Did you have a permit? And if so, were you holding to your planned itinerary?
Blue Jay
04-28-2006, 18:22
Also bears are asking for permits. Will the attacks ever end?
yes, i did have my permit and i was following it. and you aren't required to display your permit in the smokies. it's in the shenandoah that they ask you to hang your permit off your pack. as for why others weren't asked to show their permits, i can't answer. i guess at some point the ridgerunners get tired of screwing with people.
i think your full of crap...........right now i am in a house full of hikers and they say they never had a bit of problem coming thru the smokies.........it's funny that you posted because i was just talking about you posting not too long ago about ridgerunner glenn reynolds in the exact same spot..........
you are correct. i had the same problem last year. i'm trying to do something about it so that other hikers are not harassed. why do you question my credibility? what reason do you have? why are you so ready to trust and obey authority? baaaaaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! you are a like a damn sheep.
yes, i did have my permit and i was following it.Thanks, mingo.
I'm guessing the Smokys have a lot of trouble trying to keep visitors legal in regards to backcountry permits. The AT route through the Smokys is probably busting at the seams about now. I wonder if others are having problems. I do not want hassles when I'm following the rules, but considering the rationed campsite method the Smokys uses, I can understand checking people out. Like you said, they cannot claim law enforcement powers. I would assume that they can inform the authorities of Park rule violations.
max patch
04-28-2006, 21:23
yes, i did have my permit and i was following it. and you aren't required to display your permit in the smokies.
Are you sure? I know for a fact that they used to require you to have your permit in plain site. I haven't been back to the GSMNP in probably 10 years -- too many people and too many rules for my taste.
sliderule
04-28-2006, 21:25
i'm trying to do something about it so that other hikers are not harassed. why do you question my credibility? what reason do you have? why are you so ready to trust and obey authority? baaaaaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! you are a like a damn sheep.
Being asked about a permit can hardly be characterized a harassment. And your comment about "authority" is a bit off target, considering that ridgerunners don't have any. Sensationalism and credibility seldom go hand in hand.
sliderule
04-28-2006, 21:31
Are you sure? I know for a fact that they used to require you to have your permit in plain site. I haven't been back to the GSMNP in probably 10 years -- too many people and too many rules for my taste.
Years ago, the permits in the Smokies were printed on waterproof paper and came with a wire to attach it to the pack or saddle. Not any more. There is currently no requirement that the permit be carried in plain view. Considering that the current permits are printed on plain paper, that's a good thing.
max patch
04-28-2006, 21:42
Years ago, the permits in the Smokies were printed on waterproof paper and came with a wire to attach it to the pack or saddle. Not any more. There is currently no requirement that the permit be carried in plain view. Considering that the current permits are printed on plain paper, that's a good thing.
Yeah, thats what I remember! Thanks for the info.
RockyTrail
04-28-2006, 21:55
Years ago, the permits in the Smokies were printed on waterproof paper and came with a wire to attach it to the pack or saddle. Not any more. .
Yeah, I've still got one of those from the 70s I think, somewhere around my junk, if I can find it!
It doesn't take a genius to figure out who the problem is when one hiker has incidents with three different ridge runners.
Rebel, with a Cause!
04-28-2006, 22:02
I live right outside of the Smokies and see the ridgerunners numerous times during the year.
They have many duties most are not aware of. Like collecting the trash left behind by hikers, ( thrus and section both ), monitoring the traffic, such as making sure hikers have room at the next shelter. This one is the main reason they will ask for your permit. Not that they dont think you have one, but to see if you are on schedule and to see where you plan to stop next. I have seen 35 tents at Mollies Ridge before. Most ridgerunners will make a suggestion if they see that a shelter will have too many people.
By the way, Carl, Jim and Mark, ( the ridgerunners ) are ALL past thru hikers. Yes they have been there and done that. I have never seen them use any authority unless someone was in danger.
Also on another note, you will see Jim after the June season. He will be working voluntary. Thats right, no pay for the job. So Mingo if you do see Jim up there, give him a Snickers bar, not a hard time :)
sliderule
04-28-2006, 22:27
once again, i have been harassed by the nazi ridgerunners in the smokies.
All they did was ask for your papers!!! And you are whining like you were hauled off to a camp!!! Just hope that you don't meet up with a member of the elite SS ridgerunner unit. Rumor around the stalag has it that they are on the lookout for you!!!
I'm confused. There seem to be two threads on the same topic, both started almost a year apart by the same person (Mingo), who voices the same complaints in both initial posts. Is this accurate, or was Yogi Berra correct and we are experiencing deja vu all over again?
And Mingo, I am Jewish, and deeply resent your comment on "nazi ridgerunners." I suggest you read a bit of history to learn who the real Nazis were, and what they did. Asking to see a permit does not make one a Nazi. You trivialize the true meaning and impact of the word.
sliderule
04-28-2006, 23:26
And we should all resent the fact that the ATC has been forced to expend valuable resources in an effort to console a perpetual whiner. Probably wasted my entire annual contribution, which I would have preferred go towards something more productive.
Yup, this has the potential to get ugly. Let's call a truce.
Pennsylvania Rose
04-28-2006, 23:41
Funny, of all the times I've been in the Smokies, I've only seen a ridgerunner once. He was leading some thruhikers down to Cades Cove campground in a snowstorm.
got asked for my permit at spence field shelter...it was cold and i stopped in to get out of the wind and check the register to see how far ahead of me my buddies were....i am assuming the ranger checked cause she thought i might have been checking into the shelter very early. And yes, she was more or less more interested in how many people stayed where I stayed and how far we all had come from.
Interesting note...thruhikers don't have to put any iternerary on their permits...thruhiker suffices....or at least it did in 04. She informed me that it is no big deal where a thruhiker stays as long as you make it to a shelter and if there is room that you stay in the shelter. I did camp outside of russel field and she was puzzled why...i said it was full...she said, you couldn't have fit in, i said well if i wanted to i coulda done the gooch gap shelter thingy, i think we had 45 people in that sucka....she laughed and i read the register and left...people are generally pleasant if you are pleasant...and ridgerunners and LNT and education is all a part of bueracracy....we kinda asked for it when we formed our our conceptualization of self governance.
baaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! you all follow authority like sheep. if this were nazi germany, you would be the brownshirts.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-29-2006, 07:17
Hmmm... I think I'm beginning to see why Mingo might have problems others don't on the trail.
2005
Problem 1. Mingo tussles with ridgerunner 1.
2006
Problem 2 - Mingo tussles with ridgerunner 2.
Problem 3 - Mingo tussles with ridgerunner 3.
Various WB members note similar problem reported in the past. Mingo calls them sheep.
Common element: Mingo
Solution: Mingo needs to look at Mingo's part in the problem
Lone Wolf
04-29-2006, 07:25
Mingo has a thing for sheep.
.... if this were nazi germany, you would be the brownshirts.
Mingo, as a Jewish redneck living in the Appalachian Mountains, I've been called many things, but I've never been called a Nazi. Mazel tov, you schmuck. You have entered a new realm of absurdity. Now not only ridgerunners are "nazis" in your mind, but all of us who take issue with your statements are "brownshirts." If this is your normal method of dealing with people, I am not surprised you have had problems.
yes, i did have my permit and i was following it
baaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! you all follow authority like sheep.
Seems to me that you are following authority. :rolleyes: So a ridgerunner asked you about your permit in the Smokys, big deal. Get a spine and walk on.:cool:
well I have met some pretty nice ridgerunners in my time,and cant seem to remember any probs,out west the rangers do the patrolling,and they do have the right to ask for permits,check backpacks,but they in the most part are usually nice folks,a Ranger has alot of authority in the parks,now If a ridgerunner were to bother me!I would just comply with his request,now in town I thought that was out of place wanting to see mingos permit come on! this ridgerunner has no place for that call,I would simpley ask to see his:eek: ky
wilderness bob
04-29-2006, 09:28
I met Jim last year on my thru, very polite, very informative, a southern gentleman. There was young man (ridge runner) however who was , as the trail talk goes, rude and obnoxious to many hikers. I met him later up the trail in the beginning of the whites and after listening to his story knew immediately who he was (confirmed by another thru-hiker who was with me then, it was him). A little power behind the ego showed his true colors, that's just the way it is with some folks. My advise to all, show your permit and don't waste another minute of your precious day on such a person. The beauty of the trail is, if you do not get along with someone just hike away from them. Twenty yards later you may never see them again. WB
sliderule
04-29-2006, 09:29
now in town I thought that was out of place wanting to see mingos permit come on! this ridgerunner has no place for that call,I would simpley ask to see his:eek: ky
Like it or not, checking for permits is part of the Smokies ridgerunners' job description. The NPS requies that the ridgerunner submit a daily report which includes (among a number of other things) the number of overnight hikers with and without permits.
That being said, the ridgerunner has absolutely no power to cite anyone without a permit. In fact, the majority of rangers also lack that authority. Only a ranger who is law enforcement qualified can issue a citation. And most of them are tied up writing speeding tickets and dealing with traffic accidents on Highway 441
Like it or not, checking for permits is part of the Smokies ridgerunners' job description. The NPS requies that the ridgerunner submit a daily report which includes (among a number of other things) the number of overnight hikers with and without permits.
That being said, the ridgerunner has absolutely no power to cite anyone without a permit. In fact, the majority of rangers also lack that authority. Only a ranger who is law enforcement qualified can issue a citation. And most of them are tied up writing speeding tickets and dealing with traffic accidents on Highway 441well not in town!pally and your right about enforcement qualified officers but how many of them do you run into in the back country?441 is where not out west clearly you didnt read the post right,and defending a person who is harrasing someone in town is pretty clear to me!
...and defending a person who is harrasing someone in town is pretty clear to me!
Where is that old windbag Paul Harvey when we need him? I sure would like to hear "the rest of the story."
You reap what you sow.
You two could be neighbors:welcome ky
sliderule
04-29-2006, 11:27
well not in town!pally and your right about enforcement qualified officers but how many of them do you run into in the back country?441 is where not out west clearly you didnt read the post right,and defending a person who is harrasing someone in town is pretty clear to me!
Sorry Ky. I completely misinterpreted your post. I read it to mean that you changed your mind once you got back in town. (It's probably just me, but there is something about a hundred-plus word sentence strung together with commas that makes it a challenge to understand.) I am now guessing that you were attempting to refer to an earlier post regarding an alleged conversation outside the park.
To clarify, I do not beleive that a ridgerunner should be attempting to carry out his duties at the local outfitter store.
generoll
04-29-2006, 13:23
perhaps if we ignore this thread and out of place ridgerunners the whole topic will go away.
all is good :banana life goes on and well IF any ridgerunner trys yo pull a barney on me! Ill give him the badge:D ky
baaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! you all follow authority like sheep. if this were nazi germany, you would be the brownshirts.
The fact that you would actually post this shortly after local's comment speaks volumes.
sliderule
04-29-2006, 14:53
perhaps if we ignore this thread and out of place ridgerunners the whole topic will go away.
I have a feeling that, in about a year, mingo is going to return to Spence Field and have another run-in with another ridgerunner, who will become known as Barney Fife III.
Maybe they pick on you because you don't use paragraphs.
Maybe he's just trolling like Lobster. I'd love to see a thread with the two of them trying to top each other. Inevitably someone would have to come out staunchly against clean air and water, and in support of the execution of all hikers.
CaptChaos
04-29-2006, 16:37
Hello Everyone:
Well, I have to say that over the last 8 years I have run into ridgerunners from time to time and have never had a problem. I have also run into many rangers over the years who have been very friendly on foot and on horseback and they have asked to see my permit. Again, not a problem.
Any law enforcement could ask and demand to see id and the permit if they wanted so it is not an issue. The only conflict that I have been in concerning the Smokies was years ago when a ranger who had already spent the night with me at Spence Field wanted me to drag it out again at Russell Fields when I got there later in the day. After showing him my permit he made a smart ass remark that he could search my pack if he wanted to. Asking for the permit was not the issue for me but the remark about the pack set me off. Show me cause, explain the cause and you get to see my pack, but just because you want to prove you are in authority, I don't think so. After I informed him that he better have cause or a warrant in front of three other hikers he backed off and then went on his way.
As I have reported before, when I objected to park management about this ranger I was told that he had issues and that was why he was on the trail. After that I have never had any problems in the Smokies at all. I keep going back and I plan to keep doing so until the legs give out of the heart pump slows down.
For my part concerning the Smokies, park rangers and ridge runners, keep on coming, better to see them then to not have any enforcement in the back country with all of the hikers in the area.
John "Capt Chaos" Knight
LostInSpace
04-29-2006, 17:09
Years ago, the permits in the Smokies were printed on waterproof paper and came with a wire to attach it to the pack or saddle. Not any more. There is currently no requirement that the permit be carried in plain view. Considering that the current permits are printed on plain paper, that's a good thing.
This change may be a common in many National Parks to save money. My 2005 permit for the Grand Canyon was printed on Tyvek with a wire, and the printed regulations indicated I needed to display it. My permit for 2006 is on plain paper, and the regulations do not mention any requirement to display it.
After reading Mingos post on the sub 40 thread I think he has qualified :D to be known as...... the Barney Fife of Whiteblaze!:o
tech30528
04-29-2006, 18:19
I met my first ridge runner there last week. His name was Mark, last name started with a T. He asked about permits, which we didn't have, being our first time in the Smokies and a remote start. So he explained the system, and wrote us one on the spot. Some other hikers we ran in to had camped with him the night before, and said he didm't stop talking about rules and acting like the teacher the whole night. He was supposed to stay at the same shelter we were going to that night (along with the two girls who told us about him), but we pressed on and finished before dark. I much prefered a cheeseburger and a hotel bed to a night camping with a hall monitor.Like I said, he seemed like a nice guy to me, but then we only talked to him for about 5 minutes. And I can see the benefits of the permit procedure.
you are correct. i had the same problem last year. i'm trying to do something about it so that other hikers are not harassed. why do you question my credibility? what reason do you have? why are you so ready to trust and obey authority? baaaaaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! you are a like a damn sheep.what credibility do you possess except a bunch of crybaby crap, poor ole mingo-the ridgerunners hate me in the smokies, waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh, ole mingo wants his mommmmmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy..................... .........
,now in town I thought that was out of place wanting to see mingos permit come on! this ridgerunner has no place for that call,I would simpley ask to see his:eek: ky
i think it's a lie, i mean what ridgerunner would do that...............???
baaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! you all follow authority like sheep. if this were nazi germany, you would be the brownshirts.you gonna be at trail days mingo?
i think it's a lie, i mean what ridgerunner would do that...............???
You think Ridge Runners don't talk to one another? Maybe they figured out who they were dealing with and decided to dish out a little taste of Mingo medicine and break his chops. Turnabout is fair play.
Seriously, Ridge Runners need to act in a courteous & professional manner - even if they are dealing with a neanderthal. If there is a bad apple in the bunch, ATC needs to do something about it. Either speak to the person, or replace them if this is a recurring pattern. Problem is, good Ridge Runners are hard to find. The ATC website says they are still looking for Ridge Runners for '06
The problem with people pissing & moaning on public forums like this, is that it turns into a big gossipfest, and no one knows what's true, and what isn't.
sliderule
04-29-2006, 20:51
After reading Mingos post on the sub 40 thread I think he has qualified :D to be known as...... the Barney Fife of Whiteblaze!:o
"The Storyteller formerly known as mingo" sounds good to me. But so does "mingo the sheepherder."
fiddlehead
04-29-2006, 21:57
I'm not defending Mingo, nor would i go into the smokies in high season without a permit showing on my pack. but i do get upset when "wannabee" cops try to prove their authority over folks. It happens a lot and really gets my blood pumping when it happens to me or i see it happening to my friends. I think most fire cops, nat. park volunteers, part time cops, (including ridge runners) are good people doing a necessary job. But there are also many of them out there who just love to tell you who is in charge and watch you squirm.
I have hiked many places where a permit was necessary (and had one) and got harrassed. I have hike some places where a permit was necessary and just couldn't deal with all the bs it took to get one (especially when you don't have wheels) and hiked at night to get passed the checkpoints. I don't like the system but feel that it's probably necessary in some places. (the smokies would be one of those)
Anyway, i'm sure Mingo thinks that he was harrassed. I know i have. I've also met excellent rangers who went out of their way a little for the situation. (as they say in Maine: THAT's the way life should be!)
And Mingo, I am Jewish, and deeply resent your comment on "nazi ridgerunners." I suggest you read a bit of history to learn who the real Nazis were, and what they did. Asking to see a permit does not make one a Nazi. You trivialize the true meaning and impact of the word.Don't be such a post-monitor nazi.
The New England ridgerunners I have run into have all been great! Of course, we have no permits, but we do have some areas where there is an overnight fee.
Don't be such a post-monitor nazi.
And the meaning of this is ....?
Skidsteer
04-30-2006, 08:51
And the meaning of this is ....?
Irony, satire, sarcasm, and facetiousness all in one sentence is the way I read it. Not sure if Frosty meant it to be anything else.:)
And the meaning of this is ....?
I like Frosty, but the comment is uncalled for. Referring to a Jew as a Nazi is like calling your Momma fat - to her face. Its just rude and insensitive.
I like Frosty, but the comment is uncalled for. Referring to a Jew as a Nazi is like calling your Momma fat - to her face. Its just rude and insensitive.
Thanks, Mowgli. I'm not going to follow up any more on this particular forum because it is going in an unfortunate direction. However, I invite anyone who wants to call me a "Nazi" to do so personally, standing in front of me. I live in a small town and I'm easy to find.
OK, I guess I have to step in here. I am sure Mingo used the would in the wrong manner and he did not mean to offend everyone. It is one of those words that people use all the time when referred to someone that is policing something and overdoing it. Then some other person has to feed the fire and keep it going.
It is too bad that when someone steps forward on something on this forum and says they are offended by something that other people feel they have to feed the fire event more. I don't get it. We are suppose to be getting along as a AT community.
saimyoji
04-30-2006, 11:27
Actually, its been at least a few months since we've had a real flame war here. Pretty good I'd say. Where have the R&Rs, Longshanks, KirkMcQs, neos, MSMs, Swoondicks, Lobsters gone? (sorry if I forgot some of you)
Oh, wait...could it be theyre hiking? It would be interesting for someone to do a study on how the troll factor increases during the colder months.
I have sounded off on this on the other thread (Barney Fife 1) that the only time I've encountered a ridge runner was just south of Sunfish Pond, NJ. He blew by me and I had to stop and call him out as being a ridgerunner. We chatted, nice guy. The only question he asked me was if I was staying at the backpacker site that night. I wasn't and he didn't give me any schpiel on trail philosophy.
Mingo: Come clean. Give us some more details on your encounters. How were you dressed? What were you doing? How did you speak to the RRs before they asked for your permit? I say this because the first impression you make on people determines how they will treat you until they get to know you better. If you come across as someone who is a little suspect (for whatever reason), they may have more reason to assert themselves. I'm not saying that you were in the wrong, just that many people react defensively in certain situations. Just as you seem to be doing.
sliderule
04-30-2006, 13:28
Mingo: Come clean. Give us some more details on your encounters. How were you dressed? What were you doing? How did you speak to the RRs before they asked for your permit? I say this because the first impression you make on people determines how they will treat you until they get to know you better. If you come across as someone who is a little suspect (for whatever reason), they may have more reason to assert themselves. I'm not saying that you were in the wrong, just that many people react defensively in certain situations. Just as you seem to be doing.
Checking permits is part of the ridgerunners job description. So, if the ridgerunner is complying with his job description, it matters not how a backpacker is dressed or what he is doing. Of course, there are polite ways to ask for a permit. And there are other ways.
But the preponderance of mingo's complaint seems to be that ridgerunner has no business asking to see permits, politely or otherwise. And I think that arguement has merit. Unfortunately, attempts to sensationalize the situation have not been helpful to mingo's cause.
But, having been involved in the past with the ridgerunner/caretaker program, I can say the the practice of checking permits has the potential to create adverserial situations that could have been otherwise avoided. The NPS, however, wants to encourage compliance by maximizing the probability that a hiker's permit will be checked. But the ridgerunner is caught in the crossfire. He is supposed to check for permits, but he has no authority to deal with those who are not in compliance. (I was trained to advise those without a permit to leave the backcountry. Not a single person did that. They just kept on hiking, usually shouting expletives as the went.)
OK, I guess I have to step in here. I am sure Mingo used the would in the wrong manner and he did not mean to offend everyone. It is one of those words that people use all the time when referred to someone that is policing something and overdoing it. Then some other person has to feed the fire and keep it going.
It is too bad that when someone steps forward on something on this forum and says they are offended by something that other people feel they have to feed the fire event more. I don't get it. We are suppose to be getting along as a AT community.
Exactly! Please do not feed the Trolls! :cool:
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Tin%20Man/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Troll.jpg
And Mingo, I am Jewish, and deeply resent your comment on "nazi ridgerunners." I suggest you read a bit of history to learn who the real Nazis were, and what they did. Asking to see a permit does not make one a Nazi. You trivialize the true meaning and impact of the word.Chill out, Richard, and you too, Mowgli.
The word nazi is frequently used as to describe someone with an overzealous attempt at control. Has anyone yet objected to the term "gear nazi" which has appeared on WB many times?
The fact that someone is Jewish means that they worship a certain way. In this case the same way that people worshipped who were persecuted for it. The fact of being Jewish does not give them the right to restrict anyone's use of the language. I am Catholic. Should I ge offended when somene says 'lion" or "cross to bear" or any other words relating to Catholic persecution? If I am offended, do I have the right to insult someone who did say "so-and-so has a cross to bear, that's for sure." I don't think so.
Did the Red Sox get massacred by the Yankees in a ball game? If they lost 20-0 they did. Or can we not say "massacre" because it will offend a Native American, trivaialize the true meaning and impact of the word.?
I am Irish, so I should get offended when anyone says "feast or famine" because other irish men women and childred died in a famine? I did not suffer in that famine, and you Marshall were never in a concnetration camp. Had either us us been, common courtesy would be not to bring it up, I suppose, but I suspect if either of us had been, we would not be sensitive about it, having learned that there are greater priorities is life than harping on a word choice.
I was never thrown into a lion's den and you Marshall were never shipped to a concentration camp. We can honor and respect what the suffering and sacrifice of those that went before us by being upset with the things that happened, not by the words used to describe those things. Whatever you call the trappings of persecution, the horror remains. It is the persecution, torture and death we need remember and try to prevent it from happening again. Getting upset over a word choice by a person who clearly was not referring to the holocaust does a disservice to those whose suffering you are claiming for your own.
I am very sad that people died in the holocaust, in Iraq, in Angola, in the western US, in Bagladesh, in the Sudan, everywhere that people died or suffered because of intolerance or natural disaster. I pray for their souls.
But it is a little much to say that I am hurt or offended by the use of the word "famine" or phrase "cross to bear" or anything else. I certainly have no right to control the English language in order to "keep the true meaning" of a word. The language is living, it evolves, and meanings change in time.
Don't take yourself so seriously, Richard.
Exactly! Please do not feed the Trolls! :cool:
But it is fine to feed the ATTroll! :D
But it is fine to feed the ATTroll! :D
Go take a hike! :D
Good comment above. I'll "Amen" that one.
T.
But it is fine to feed the ATTroll! :D
Of course! :sun
Sounds like these Ridge Runners are related to Gizmo.(the ridgerunner and a Trail Nazi if I ever meet one.
Checking permits is part of the ridgerunners job description. So, if the ridgerunner is complying with his job description, it matters not how a backpacker is dressed or what he is doing. Of course, there are polite ways to ask for a permit. And there are other ways.
But the preponderance of mingo's complaint seems to be that ridgerunner has no business asking to see permits, politely or otherwise. And I think that arguement has merit. Unfortunately, attempts to sensationalize the situation have not been helpful to mingo's cause.
But, having been involved in the past with the ridgerunner/caretaker program, I can say the the practice of checking permits has the potential to create adverserial situations that could have been otherwise avoided. The NPS, however, wants to encourage compliance by maximizing the probability that a hiker's permit will be checked. But the ridgerunner is caught in the crossfire. He is supposed to check for permits, but he has no authority to deal with those who are not in compliance. (I was trained to advise those without a permit to leave the backcountry. Not a single person did that. They just kept on hiking, usually shouting expletives as the went.)
sliderule has pretty well summed up the situation in the smokies. the rangers don't have the manpower to check permits, so they have apparently asked the ridgerunners to do it. the ATC shouldn't want the ridgerunners doing this because if ridgerunners are running around acting like cops, then it makes them less effective as educators about LNT, etc. i have complained so that the ATC will be aware of the problem and hopefully set things straight. all joking aside, it's actually not good for the ridgerunning program for the ridgerunners to take on law-enforcement duties. i've got nothing against ridgerunners. i've been friends with several of them in the smokies over the years. they do a lot of great work. they clean the crappers for christ's sake. who'd want to do that for $300/week? it's only been in the past couple of years that i think things have gotten out of hand. i'm not the only one who has complained. i've run into several hikers who were irked by ridgerunners, and i've seen postings on this site about it as well. anyway, it's been a fun thread. maybe i'll do it again next year.
generoll
04-30-2006, 17:27
RR get paid?
RR get paid?
About $300 per week, I think.
Is that enough to give or take grief? Not in my opinion.
If it's officially in the RR's job description to ask for permits, so be it. Hikers should produce and keep quiet. Otherwise, they should just do what they're hired to do.
sliderule
04-30-2006, 17:37
I volunteered back in 1998 & '99. People were complaining back then. But even more were writing letters of appreciation for the work and assistance that the ridgerunners and caretakers were providing.
I found it interesting that there were a certain percentage of hikers that resented the presence of a volunteer in uniform, without regard to any particular event or occurence. And there were others that thought I was there to be their personal servant. They would hand me their trash, ask when I was going to gather firewood or expect me to hang their food sack. So different people have different expectations. Some are realistic and some aren't.
I recall one group of hikers at Siler's Bald who made it known that they did not appreciate sharing a shelter with "big brother." But after sharing a few sea stories around the campfire, one of them said "Hey, I just realized something. You are not one of 'them.' You are one of us!"
PS. I'd rather they just ask for the permit instead of going into a routine about LNT. Been there...
bulldog49
05-01-2006, 11:00
Chill out, Richard, and you too, Mowgli.
The word nazi is frequently used as to describe someone with an overzealous attempt at control. Has anyone yet objected to the term "gear nazi" which has appeared on WB many times?
The fact that someone is Jewish means that they worship a certain way. In this case the same way that people worshipped who were persecuted for it. The fact of being Jewish does not give them the right to restrict anyone's use of the language. I am Catholic. Should I ge offended when somene says 'lion" or "cross to bear" or any other words relating to Catholic persecution? If I am offended, do I have the right to insult someone who did say "so-and-so has a cross to bear, that's for sure." I don't think so.
Did the Red Sox get massacred by the Yankees in a ball game? If they lost 20-0 they did. Or can we not say "massacre" because it will offend a Native American, trivaialize the true meaning and impact of the word.?
I am Irish, so I should get offended when anyone says "feast or famine" because other irish men women and childred died in a famine? I did not suffer in that famine, and you Marshall were never in a concnetration camp. Had either us us been, common courtesy would be not to bring it up, I suppose, but I suspect if either of us had been, we would not be sensitive about it, having learned that there are greater priorities is life than harping on a word choice.
I was never thrown into a lion's den and you Marshall were never shipped to a concentration camp. We can honor and respect what the suffering and sacrifice of those that went before us by being upset with the things that happened, not by the words used to describe those things. Whatever you call the trappings of persecution, the horror remains. It is the persecution, torture and death we need remember and try to prevent it from happening again. Getting upset over a word choice by a person who clearly was not referring to the holocaust does a disservice to those whose suffering you are claiming for your own.
I am very sad that people died in the holocaust, in Iraq, in Angola, in the western US, in Bagladesh, in the Sudan, everywhere that people died or suffered because of intolerance or natural disaster. I pray for their souls.
But it is a little much to say that I am hurt or offended by the use of the word "famine" or phrase "cross to bear" or anything else. I certainly have no right to control the English language in order to "keep the true meaning" of a word. The language is living, it evolves, and meanings change in time.
Don't take yourself so seriously, Richard.
Excellent post, my thoughts exactly. Folks are all to quick to take feign offense at the most innocous things. It's nothing more than a ploy to gain the "high ground" in a debate. Like folks who claim they are offended by seeing the display of religious symbols. I can respect someone who argues religious symbols are inappropriate in certain settings, but when they claim they are "personally offended", well I find that offensive.
It seems to me that since Ridge Runners have no legal authority, to avoid possible unpleasant situations why not simply instruct RR's to inform hikers they see in the backcountry about the permit system without asking them to actually see the permit?
You think Ridge Runners don't talk to one another? Maybe they figured out who they were dealing with and decided to dish out a little taste of Mingo medicine and break his chops. Turnabout is fair play.
The problem with people pissing & moaning on public forums like this, is that it turns into a big gossipfest, and no one knows what's true, and what isn't.you have some good points there.......
neighbor dave
05-01-2006, 18:57
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=198404&postcount=74
:-? i agree with frosty and bulldog.:sun
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=198404&postcount=74
:-? i agree with frosty and bulldog.:sun
Yeah. Someone is being too sensitive. I wonder if "local" wrote Jerry Seinfeld after the "Soup Nazi" episode?
I don't Hae the word "British" because of the things they did to my ancestors over many many years.
bulldog49
05-01-2006, 21:41
Yeah. Someone is being too sensitive. I wonder if "local" wrote Jerry Seinfeld after the "Soup Nazi" episode?
Yep, that episode was written by 2 Jews. Are you going to punch out Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld if you ever meet them, local?
sliderule
05-01-2006, 22:14
Are you going to punch out Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld if you ever meet them, local?
Did Local ever say a single word about punching anyone out?
Skidsteer
05-01-2006, 22:23
Did Local ever say a single word about punching anyone out?
Nope. He said,
" I'm not going to follow up any more on this particular forum because it is going in an unfortunate direction. However, I invite anyone who wants to call me a "Nazi" to do so personally, standing in front of me. I live in a small town and I'm easy to find."
And he's kept his word so far.
OldStormcrow
05-04-2006, 23:12
I have met a few ridgerunners in the Smokies over the years, and have found them to be fairly reasonable....for the most part. I have met one or two who seem to have developed a rather thick skin from the abuse they have to deal with. In a park with the traffic that the Smokies gets, the shelters are almost always full, quite often full of people with no permits, as in the case at Cosby Knob Shelter. Even in the middle of winter they get crowds of drunks and tourists hiking the three or so miles up to that shelter or Icewater Springs to have a rowdy party. The ridgerunners do come in handy for dealing with these people, saving us from having to have confrontations over space. The rangers in the park are quite another matter. Almost every encounter I have had with a Smokies ranger has been uncomfortable. They have proven to be unhelpful, uninformed, unconcerned, and generally surly. They can also cause downright dangerous situations. I do most of my Smokies hiking in the winter and have had the gate locked on me more than once on the NC side of Newfound Gap, even after the Ranger had personally told me it was open before disappearing down the mountain. I drive all the way down to almost the bottom of the mountain on gawd-awful black ice.....the gate is locked....again. I drive all the way back over Newfound Gap and down to the Tenn side on black ice......the gate is locked.....forcing me to hike to the ranger station to beg them to unlock it. These are the same gun-totin', permit checkin', tirechain checkin', square-jawed rangerettes who issue the permits......that is, after giving me the evil eye like this was the sixties and I'm some kind of hippy/wierdo/hiking/freak. "Service" is not exactly at the topof the ranger's to-do list.
I do most of my Smokies hiking in the winter and have had the gate locked on me more than once on the NC side of Newfound Gap, even after the Ranger had personally told me it was open before disappearing down the mountain. I drive all the way down to almost the bottom of the mountain on gawd-awful black ice.....the gate is locked....again. I drive all the way back over Newfound Gap and down to the Tenn side on black ice......the gate is locked.....forcing me to hike to the ranger station to beg them to unlock it. These are the same gun-totin', permit checkin', tirechain checkin', square-jawed rangerettes who issue the permits......that is, after giving me the evil eye like this was the sixties and I'm some kind of hippy/wierdo/hiking/freak. "Service" is not exactly at the topof the ranger's to-do list.Now this is a situation that I would not want to be in. This is one of the drawbacks of winter camping in the Smokys. You are a slave to the decisions of people who do not worry about those trapped INSIDE the park. They are concerned about keeping people out. Winter trips can turn tricky in a hurry. Keeping the Park officials out of the loop in regards to your vehicle plans is a good idea in winter. I would expect rangers to be helpful in a time of need, but you never know what the day will bring.
sliderule
05-05-2006, 01:28
Keeping the Park officials out of the loop in regards to your vehicle plans is a good idea in winter.
When are park officials ever in the loop when it comes to "vehicle plans?"
When are park officials ever in the loop when it comes to "vehicle plans?" When you leave your car at a parking area that is on a gated road in winter.:confused:
shades of blue
05-05-2006, 11:42
The first use of the word "Nazi" was probably not thought out. The continued use of the word after it being known as offensive isn't right. Nazis Murdered somewhere between 5 to 11 MILLION Jews and gypsies and others. To call a Jewish person a Nazi...even as a peeved statement is way over the line. This genocide has happened in living memory. There are people who have lost parents, brothers, sisters and grandparents to people under this name. Words do matter. It's easy to be anti-semetic and then say...oh, we can't stop our freedom of speech...what about any words that might be construed as Politically Incorrect. This isn't PC, it's not being ignorant and knowing history. We get so used to seeing evil in the world around us that we joke about it. The word Nazi may not insult you, but then again....they weren't trying to totally wipe out your RACE...not just your belief system. Imagine calling someone who lost a loved one in 9/11 a terrorist...do you have the right...yes, are you wrong....yes.
freefall
05-05-2006, 14:30
I had conversations with both Carl and Shatter during my pass through the Smokies. Both were friendly, and pleasant, and neither asked to see a permit. :-?
Ditto here.
I went SNP when I lived in VA so much I knew some Rangers on a first name basis.
I've had little interaction with GSMNP Rangers except for the one that gave me a hitch from Newfound Gap to Gatlinburgh at the end of my '03 section hike.(and no I wasn't being arrested). This ranger had done several sections of the AT and therefore hiker friendly. Its a shame that the cool gov't employee's and LEO's are the exception and not the rule.
The first use of the word "Nazi" was probably not thought out. The continued use of the word after it being known as offensive isn't right. Nazis Murdered somewhere between 5 to 11 MILLION Jews and gypsies and others. To call a Jewish person a Nazi...even as a peeved statement is way over the line. This genocide has happened in living memory. There are people who have lost parents, brothers, sisters and grandparents to people under this name. Words do matter. It's easy to be anti-semetic and then say...oh, we can't stop our freedom of speech...what about any words that might be construed as Politically Incorrect. This isn't PC, it's not being ignorant and knowing history. We get so used to seeing evil in the world around us that we joke about it. The word Nazi may not insult you, but then again....they weren't trying to totally wipe out your RACE...not just your belief system. Imagine calling someone who lost a loved one in 9/11 a terrorist...do you have the right...yes, are you wrong....yes.
I think Frosty and Bulldog had it right. What makes you think the RR was Jewish anyway? And what about Jerry Sienfeld and his soup nazi episode?
While helping out at Neels gap I borrowed the term hostel nazi from my predesessor. At the bonfire at Trailfest (and a few before) I became the fire nazi. Whats next, change the name of the Washington Redskins to the Washington Thinskins? Let me know what Jerry had to say....
shades of blue
05-06-2006, 22:27
I don't think it's the same. And no....I wouldn't insult someone if they told me they were insulted...especially over the word that deals with the murder of 11 million people. Why do I think he's Jewish...he said so...and for these purposes that's good enough for me. This word was not only used, but this guy was called a Nazi. That's not just using a word to get a point across...BTW....I'm not Jewish, but have relatives on my mother side that were. In Hitler's book...that would put me in the gas chamber too, if I lived in Germany, Poland and other countries during that time. I'm not saying someone can't use the word in some situations...but why continue it in the "presence" of people you know you insult, unless it's your purpose to insult. We have become desensitized to words and their meanings. I'm not a big PC type person...but words do matter. People say things on the internet that they would never have the guts to say to a persons face. As for "jerry sienfield" and his little act, that is his choice....but you didn't see someone coming up to jerry in his show and call him a "brown shirt" or "nazi". Comparing a ridgerunner to a nazi trivializes the deaths of 11 million people. You want to use the word...you have that right as an American. Maybe when your relatives have been baked alive, shot down, and someone has tried to wipe out your whole race...we'll see where you stand.
I don't think it's the same. And no....I wouldn't insult someone if they told me they were insulted...especially over the word that deals with the murder of 11 million people. Why do I think he's Jewish...he said so...and for these purposes that's good enough for me. This word was not only used, but this guy was called a Nazi. That's not just using a word to get a point across...BTW....I'm not Jewish, but have relatives on my mother side that were. In Hitler's book...that would put me in the gas chamber too, if I lived in Germany, Poland and other countries during that time. I'm not saying someone can't use the word in some situations...but why continue it in the "presence" of people you know you insult, unless it's your purpose to insult. We have become desensitized to words and their meanings. I'm not a big PC type person...but words do matter. People say things on the internet that they would never have the guts to say to a persons face. As for "jerry sienfield" and his little act, that is his choice....but you didn't see someone coming up to jerry in his show and call him a "brown shirt" or "nazi". Comparing a ridgerunner to a nazi trivializes the deaths of 11 million people. You want to use the word...you have that right as an American. Maybe when your relatives have been baked alive, shot down, and someone has tried to wipe out your whole race...we'll see where you stand.I see your point. I really do. I just don't see that focusing on a name or description does anyone any good. To me, THAT trivializes. Let's heap all the blame on people who describe themselves thus (nazis) rather than be upset against the CONCEPT of genocide. Focusing on teh word nazi excludes all other victims of attempted genocide. Are these lives less important to you? No, of course not. Look at the larger picture. It isn't just about you and yours. TheTutsis in Ruwanda, Muslims in Bosnia. Genocide is horrible. But do you really ever think that you must not say "Serb" in the presence of a Muslim? And if you did, would you be trivializing anything?Of course not.
I'm sorry, but saying xxx is a trail nazi or gear nazi does not trivialize anything. Death and suffering cannot be trivialized by someone saying anything. Only if the word is more important to you than the concept does it even matter.
In another post:
Imagine calling someone who lost a loved one in 9/11 a terrorist..answer this honestly, and only this question. Leave nazis and our discussion aside for a moment: Would it be okay if the person behaved as a terrorist?
One last thought: I am always leery of painting every one in a group with the same brush. You may agree with this about Serbs, Turks, Hutus. All Serbs, Turks, and Hutus are not mass murderers. But you label all nazis the same.
The perpretrators of the horror you mention were European. They were German. Yet you have no problem with the word German. You used Germany in your post. So my last question is this: What if all nazis did not participate in the horror? What if some had ideals for the rebuilding of Germany and saw the Nazi Party as the way to do this, but took no part and were horrified at what happened? If it fair to brand these people?
My only point is that we sometimes get so hung up on labels, that the label means more to us than the thing it represents. The American flag, for instance. I am a former soldier, enlisted in 1966 even though I had a student deferrrment, and served two tours in Viet-nam, because I believed in my country and what we were doing. I am as Patriotic as they come. Yet I have no problems with people burning the American flag. Why? Because it isn't the flag that I am proud of. It is my country. And deep down, it isn't the word nazi that you despise. It was the horror perpretated. And I'm sure you are equally horrifed at the millions of Armenians murdered by Turkish people in 1915. The Armenians feel the same way you do, yet I'm sure you have no problem saying Turkey or Turk or Turkish. And when you do, you are not trivializing the Armenians slaughtered.
If you are interested, this site explains and lists other genocides:
http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/armenian_genocide.htm
Focus on what is important. What is important is not forgetting these things happened, and what can be done so that they do not happen again. There are bad people doing bad things. Ignoring that and worrying about someone using a word like nazi or Turk or massacre or expressions like "throwing someone to the lions" or "feast of famine" is doing a disservice to the memory of the ones you care about.
change the name of the Washington Redskins to the Washington Thinskins? .... The Washington Indigenous Americans and the Dallas Bovine Caretakers?
shades of blue
05-07-2006, 09:10
Frosty
I'm not ignoring your post, but I have church and my father-in-law is in town. You have some interesting points, and I agree/disagree with some. I will post more at a later point.
A few of my old neighbors were insulted by the term hillbilly as they prefer the term: Appalachain Americans..... Now I live among a bunch of coon a$$es. Life was simple back in the sticks, where we were all hicks.:D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-07-2006, 11:45
I'm not about to get into the discussion of PC terminology. I'll just sit back and LMAO at terms like ' The Washington Indigenous Americans and the Dallas Bovine Caretaker', "the Washington Thinskins" and "Appalachian Americans".....
Back to RRs and the original post - there really is a single RR (or person representing himself as a RR) that is being a trail {sub your PC term for nazi} this year. He is a young guy with a northern accent and a crewcut going by the name 'Storm Trooper'. Two groups of day hikers I have personally known for years have encountered this guy within the past month at the Spence Field shelter.
One group (four seasoned day-hikers) included a man in his late 80's - the younger hikers in this group regularly carry some camping gear in their daypacks in case the elderly member has a problem. The elderly man was tired from having hiked up to Spence Field from Cades Cove and was lying down on a sleeping mat at the shelter to rest. The mat was the only piece of gear out of their packs. Storm Trooper asked for their permit and they explained the situation. ST called them liars and told them they had to leave the GSMNP immediately or they would be arrested.
The second group was two women in their 30's and a young teen boy. They were having lunch at the shelter (mid day and they were the only ones there). ST told them they could not eat there because they were day hikers and shelters were only for backpackers. He made them pack up in mid-meal and move on.
If this fellow is indeed a RR, he needs to be re-trained or given his walking papers. If the above are considered acceptable behavior for RRs, then I need to rethink where my $$$'s go in the future.
I'm not about to get into the discussion of PC terminology. I'll just sit back and LMAO at terms like ' The Washington Indigenous Americans and the Dallas Bovine Caretaker', "the Washington Thinskins" and "Appalachian Americans".....
Back to RRs and the original post - there really is a single RR (or person representing himself as a RR) that is being a trail {sub your PC term for nazi} this year.
Storm Trooper asked for their permit and they explained the situation. ST called them liars and told them they had to leave the GSMNP immediately or they would be arrested.
The second group was two women in their 30's and a young teen boy. They were having lunch at the shelter (mid day and they were the only ones there). ST told them they could not eat there because they were day hikers and shelters were only for backpackers. He made them pack up in mid-meal and move on.
If this fellow is indeed a RR, he needs to be re-trained or given his walking papers. If the above are considered acceptable behavior for RRs, then I need to rethink where my $$$'s go in the future.
If ST is indeed Jewish and is insulted by the term nazi, perhaps......
sliderule
05-07-2006, 13:39
Back to RRs and the original post - there really is a single RR (or person representing himself as a RR) that is being a trail {sub your PC term for nazi} this year. He is a young guy with a northern accent and a crewcut going by the name 'Storm Trooper'. Two groups of day hikers I have personally known for years have encountered this guy within the past month at the Spence Field shelter.
This really sounds like a self-appointed, freelance ridgerunner. Unfortunately, they do exist.