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John B
05-02-2006, 07:51
... to put up with this. I've never met her, but Miss Janet must be a saint.

From Trailjournals:

"April 16, 2006

I got out of Erwin and Miss Janet's house this afternoon and am glad to be in the woods again. Miss Janet is a terrific lady and lives up to her reputation but I met her and was at her house on the wrong day. Like yesterday, the place was in a frenzy when I just wanted some peace. A few other folks felt the same way. Most enjoyed the to-do. I'm not complaining and won't complain. We're hiking our own hikes. My hike is better when I relax quietly with a few people.


I bounced from room to room in the house not really getting comfortable anywhere and just waiting for the dinner bell. Her front porch is nice but squirrel was holding court hooting at the girls leaving the church across the street after Easter services. No class. Miss Janet's backyard is nice but Baltimore Jack was holding court out there blasting the same Springsteen and Johnny Cash and sucking down Jim Beam. On the AT he's considered a legend. He may be. A legend and an obnoxious middle aged drunk. Three cheers. I kept wondering why I hadn't hiked out with Jet Wash and Bear Can. We were all of similar minds. Really it was only because Miss Janet vented her frustration on me personally.

I can't say the food wasn't amazing. There were 37 people in line for the Roast and plenty left over. She and her daughter and a team of hikers, Caboose included, spent 2 days preparing. There was a ham, a turkey, piles of sweet potatoes, sides and gravy and sauces. I went through the line just once and still had no room for dessert.

I headed to McDonald's this morning for cheap breakfast. She sent me out with $30 to buy sausage biscuit sandwiches for all the cooks. She has class. She also shuttled a bunch of us to the grocery store for resupply. After dinner she shuttled those of us leaving to the trailhead.
The good thing about stay was making contact with folks from the trail. I was glad to spend time with Natty Bo, Parkay, Long Haul, Houey, and lots of others. Irish, Handle Bar, Double Shot and Supersize all showed up from the trail as did Dinosaur and several others from the campground fire. Still, I would have preferred a lazy day.

The 4 mile hike up to Curly Maple flew by. Four miles now feels like nothing. A 20 miler to Clyde Smith Shelter tomorrow is not out of the question. I would like to keep up with the guys I'm with now for a while. Tonight's shelter group includes Long Haul, Don Quixote, Houey and ---. Old School and New Day, a couple I've only seen in the registers are also here. The few miles hiked and fireside conversation were a good remedy for the stress of forced merriment of the day. I can never say anything bad about Miss Janet. She loves and is devoted to hikers. When she dropped us at the trail gave me a hug and thanked me for sticking around. Hugs for everyone.
Frustration's building for me and I have to make some changes. I love this trip and its experiences but I'm also feeling stifled. I usually feel quite free to be myself but I have been hiding my light under a bushel. Fag jokes and bashing are just everyday routine for most of these folks, even ones I like. But there is such an undertone of animosity it's surprising. I haven't experienced attitude this strong since junior high. I'm pretty pissed at myself for not either speaking up or just moving on. I'm kind of an observer behind a wall and it's really getting me down and keeping me from engaging. Some like a solitary hike. I like the social aspect and want to connect with more people. It's kind of a double edged sword and not like me at all to let things build up.

Time to make a few changes and get more out of my hike. It's creepy to even admit these things. I love this experience as a whole, but it's time to take charge and get what I'm missing. All in all, interesting as it's been, I consider my visit to Miss Janet's an unexpected failure. Closing the book on this chapter. " http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=133210

SGT Rock
05-02-2006, 07:59
She is a saint. A great person to meet, she will always do you right, and she will tell you her mind if she feels it is needed - but with class and tact.

Jack Tarlin
05-02-2006, 08:23
Geez, what a nice post. Perhaps folks who want peace and quiet or "lazy days" shouldn't stay at popular places, eh? And if they realize a holiday meal and party is being planned with over 50 folks expected, maybe they might want to go someplace quieter, if in fact, it really troubled them.

And as for hating crowds, this didn't seem to curb his enthusiasm for sticking around for the Easter dinner....I guess it's OK to put up with lines and crowds and lots of folks if you're getting lots of cool free stuff.....which incidentally, I helped prepare and serve, tho I don't recall getting a word of thanks from J.B.

As for the music, the artists in question were indeed on frequently, and on many occasions it was other folks who put them on. People who wanted to hear something else or who didn't care for the tunes should have said something at the time.

In short, it's obvious that some folks are determined to be whiny and unhappy no matter what they find on the Trail. A guy shows up at the Trail's most popular hiker hostel, is treated royally by the proprietor, is fed (for free) til he's fit to bust, and then stalks out bitching about the atmosphere of "forced merriment" he had to endure,

For this guy, I predict an abbreviated or lonely hike.

Oh, and if I end up taking in, putting up, and feeding a hundred-odd hikers in Hanover, as we did last summer, John is free to go find someplace less hectic. Perhaps he'd enjoy a "lazy day" at the Hanover Inn.......for only around $215.00 a night. And he can take his friends with him, if he has any.

MOWGLI
05-02-2006, 08:23
.... Her front porch is nice but squirrel was holding court hooting at the girls leaving the church across the street after Easter services. No class.

Miss Janet has done some good work to try and get the residents of Erwin to understand and embrace the hiking community. Unfortunately, all it takes is one knucklehead to undo all her hard work. If the above is true, that kind of behavior is shameful.

Jack Tarlin
05-02-2006, 08:26
Whoops.

The guy who contributed the lovely comments about Janet in his journal is named "Boulder."

My apologiers to Whiteblaze poster John B who was merely passing this commentary along for us to see.

warren doyle
05-02-2006, 08:51
Interesting thread.
John B. - over the last fifteen years I have seen a change in the overall social atmosphere of the trail. There has been a steady increase of 'partiers' especially in the southern section in the spring. There seems to be a high percentage of these partiers that feel the their 'trail experience' is more important than completing the whole trail. The growing cynicism, defensiveness, sarcasm and mean-spiritedness of a few vocal internet posters only add to the loss of respect and civility I have seen on the trail. However, there are still many long distance hikers out there who are courteous, friendly and helpful and are having a good time without needing artificial substances. They have fun and are adventurous but still have the discipline and tenacity to complete their task. Fortunately there still is enough space for us all on the trail, but not in shelters, designated campsites or hostels in town.
My advice to those northbounders who are truly interested in completely the whole trail is to avoid as many hostels/shelters/designated campsites as possible in the spring down south.

Internegator
05-02-2006, 08:57
Interesting thread.
John B. - over the last fifteen years I have seen a change in the overall social atmosphere of the trail. There has been a steady increase of 'partiers' especially in the southern section in the spring. There seems to be a high percentage of these partiers that feel the their 'trail experience' is more important than completing the whole trail. The growing cynicism, defensiveness, sarcasm and mean-spiritedness of a few vocal internet posters only add to the loss of respect and civility I have seen on the trail. However, there are still many long distance hikers out there who are courteous, friendly and helpful and are having a good time without needing artificial substances. They have fun and are adventurous but still have the discipline and tenacity to complete their task. Fortunately there still is enough space for us all on the trail, but not in shelters, designated campsites or hostels in town.
My advice to those northbounders who are truly interested in completely the whole trail is to avoid as many hostels/shelters/designated campsites as possible in the spring down south.

Whoopsie! Here we go!

Skidsteer
05-02-2006, 09:03
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=116946

Talk about ironic. Turns out this fellow is a librarian.

ed bell
05-02-2006, 09:10
I would advise people wanting a quiet, peaceful hike to avoid posting an online journal that calls people out. Bad form. I've heard of several hikers catching quite a bit of grief over journal entries. I'm sure this thread ain't gonna die anytime soon. Unfortunate.

John B
05-02-2006, 09:23
My only point for posting this excerpt from this hiker's journal is not to say that one hiker or group of hikers is out of line, but instead it really made me appreciate Miss Janet (whom I've never met) and all of the others who operate hostels and open their houses to hikers. I've never had 37 people in my house before and I'm sure that I wouldn't want to. Much less trying to feed everyone, give rides to everyone to the grocery or laundry or trail or wherever, act as a trail mom to those who need a pat on the back (or a swift kick in the butt depending on the need), and then having people wandering about "from room to room" in my house.

I've read several journals from hikers who have been sick and they stayed at her house until they were better (everything from the flu to stress fractures), and everyone said that she was genuinely concerned about their well-being and made certain that they were OK before they left.

So hats off to Miss Janet and all the others who go out of their way to help. They do things that most of us couldn't handle.

MacGyver2005
05-02-2006, 09:31
Miss Janet is amazing, that is certain. My father and I got there as it was packed full last year. We could have slept on the couch, but being somewhat similar to the guy in the journal, we were not in the mood to be in amongst such a "freshman dorm" atmosphere. We went to the Super 8 (I think) down the street instead...and Miss Janet even drove us there and picked us up the following morning to shuttle us! I hold nothing against this guy; he just posted how he felt. Everyone wants to blast hime for writing in his own journal, and I think that is contradictory to the point of journaling.

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA-->ME

Auntie Mame
05-02-2006, 10:02
I, too, question the value of pulling anyone's entries out for evaluation. The comments John B. made belong in a personal exchange. TJ's is different from WB. This is a public forum. That is a collection of personal accounts. In TJ's, I look up and follow what I want to read. On this forum, criticism about the content in Trailjournal journal entries feels offensive in the extreme.

hammock engineer
05-02-2006, 10:12
Things like this are why I am really starting to like the late SOBO start. I'll see people, but I will not see the masses of people at once the NOBO's do.

Hopefully Miss Janet's will still be running by the time I make it down there.

Jack Tarlin
05-02-2006, 10:22
Wildernut:

Actually, you're quite wrong.

Remarks made on the Internet on a publicly accessed site (such a trip journal) are fair game for public comment. If you slag a place or person on the Internet, the you leave yourself open to similar comments from those who might disagree with you.

What is "offensive in the extreme" is to visit a Trail establishment, take advantage of the many things that are offered there, and then go on-line bleating and whining about what a horrible time he had there.

And in regard to Mr. Doyle's advice about avoiding hostels down south, I find this pretty amusing in that several southern hostel proprietors have made it very clear to me and others exactly how they feel about Mr. Doyle and the prospect of having him in their establishments. Telling folks to shun places where he himself is manifestly unwelcome, is pretty damned funny.

Sly
05-02-2006, 10:37
Erwin has more facilites for hikers than just about any other town on the trail, UJ's, Holiday Inn, Super 8, Nolichucky CG, The Southern, Clayton's and Miss Janet's. Certainly he could have found peace in another, why did this guy pick the most popular not to complain?

Personal attacks in journals aren't cool either.

mingo
05-02-2006, 10:38
jack, what's really funny is hearing you criticize warren for being unwelcome anyplace. if you're going to stand around swigging jim beam and being all loud and obnoxious at a hostel, it's really not surprising that someone is annoyed, is it?

SGT Rock
05-02-2006, 10:42
Well just a personal thought on going to places listed as popular hostels. If you want peace and quiet and some privacy, then you should probably get a hotel room. Dealing with other people and meeting crowds (especially at popular sites) is a part of what you get. If you are already having problems dealing with others (as it appears may be the case based on a public journal) then going somewhere that you are guaranteed to be in a crowd of other people would be the last place to go - unless you are looking for more stuff to feel bad about.

max patch
05-02-2006, 10:50
Her front porch is nice but squirrel was holding court hooting at the girls leaving the church across the street after Easter services. No class.

This is the kind of thing that causes hostels to stop providing services.

Out of 50 odd hikers why didn't sometime tell this bozo to shut up?

Why didn't Miss J remove this guy from the premises?

If you are in a hostel and someone is not following the posted rules of the house then call them on it! You'll be doing all the hikers that follow a favor.

Sly
05-02-2006, 10:55
Out of 50 odd hikers why didn't sometime tell this bozo to shut up?

Better still why didn't the moron that wrote about it in his journal tell "squirell" to behave and end it there instead of not complaining.

Jack Tarlin
05-02-2006, 11:00
Hey Mingo, considering YOU are famous here for your whining, carping, bitching, and constant complaining (for example, you recent rant about Ridgerunners), it doesn't strike me as surprising you're so quick to defend other whiners.

Geez, you guys should form a union or something, or maybe you can become a new politically correct hyphenate, like Whiner-American or something.

And maybe you can find somewhere you can all stay. Together. You guys would no doubt be happy bunking away from everyone else.

And that happiness works both ways, believe me.

shades of blue
05-02-2006, 11:25
Miss Janet helps with little in return. She truly is a saint. I understand the idea about a place feeling too crowded, especially if you've been hiking solo for a while. However, it should be expected that you might have to give a little of your peace to experience a lot of the good you might experience in some of the hostels on the trail. Many people grow up in homes where you might have no brothers or sisters, or perhaps only one. Miss Janet's place (the part I experienced) is like have a family of 15 or so. You have to learn how to share space, time and materials. If you can't do that, then a hostel isn't for you. It's ok for him to be upset about his experience....for him, it let him down. I just think it was a matter of unreasonable expectations. As for BJ... when I was there just past Easter, he wasn't unfriendly...or friendly to me. He was just another hiker talking with other thru-hikers (I was doing a short section hike with my new wife :sun and wasn't there for but an hour ) He wasn't taking up more or less space than anyone else, and he certainly wasn't drunk then. I would think it would be hard being a "trail celebrity" like BJ or LW or even WD. Everyone has preconcieved notions about you, and expect you to talk to them or act like whatever you think they should act like. That would be pretty difficult to deal with on a constant basis I would think.

warren doyle
05-02-2006, 11:25
The last paragraph in post #14 proves my point in my post #6 (8:51am; 5/1/06)

mingo
05-02-2006, 11:34
jack, why don't you get a job and stop with all this pathetic "trail legend" BS? your act is wearing on everybody up and down the trail.

MOWGLI
05-02-2006, 11:51
Fortunately there still is enough space for us all on the trail, but not in shelters, designated campsites or hostels in town.
My advice to those northbounders who are truly interested in completely the whole trail is to avoid as many hostels/shelters/designated campsites as possible in the spring down south.

'splain that one for me Warren. You took exception when I suggested that the AT was overused in some places. As I recall, you felt it was no one's right to say if & when the AT was overused. I imagine your feelings haven't changed in that regard.

But here you suggest that that shelters/designated campsites/hostels are overcrowded - or at least metaphorically so. Help me understand what you mean.

MacGyver2005
05-02-2006, 11:58
It's entertaining to watch everyone jump in to complain about the complaints of others.

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA-->ME

Jack Tarlin
05-02-2006, 11:59
Gee, it certainly wasn't wearing on the 55 people we fed on Easter Sunday, Mingo.

Including the guy who insisted on telling us what a lousy time he had.

He apparently ate with great gusto, only to bitch about what a horrible time he had.

And as to what Mr. Doyle quoted above, the fact remains that he told folks to avoid places that

1) He doesn't frequent himself.
2) That he and his group aren't welcome at.
3) That he's too cheap to patronize; he'd rather sleep next to his vehicle.
4) He may well be advising against visiting or patronizing places where he
himself has never been a guest, and is therefore ignorant about what
these places are really like, yet he insists on describing them anyway.

The truth is that most hikers will shun Doyle's advice and stay at these establishments. And with good reason. They are nearly all wonderful places. But if one doesn't wish to frequent them, that's fine. I assure you that the whiners won't be missed. Ever.

mingo
05-02-2006, 12:07
you fed 55 people? who did it? did you buy the food?

Almost There
05-02-2006, 12:15
Can you feel the Love!?!:banana

Quit your cryin'....and go HIKE!!!:D

warren doyle
05-02-2006, 12:15
"'splain that one for me Warren. You took exception when I suggested that the AT was overused in some places. As I recall, you felt it was no one's right to say if & when the AT was overused. I imagine your feelings haven't changed in that regard.

But here you suggest that that shelters/designated campsites/hostels are overcrowded - or at least metaphorically so. Help me understand what you mean."

Jeffrey,
I don't think the trail itself is overused ( and I never used the term overcrowded in my post). My post was to offer advice to hikers that if they want to avoid 'partiers' on the trail they should avoid these places if they are doing a northbound trek in the late winter/early spring. This thread was started by someone that had an unpleasant 'social' experience at a hostel.

hammock engineer
05-02-2006, 12:32
I think this thread shows one of the bad things about online trail journals, and one of the reasons I am probibly not going to do one. You can't actually say what you are thinking or what you sometimes want to without getting this sort of response for everyone. I think it defeats the purpose if you have to write one public journal, then another private one.

If you had a bad experience, I think you should be able to write about it. If I keep an online journal I would probibly say that I did not have a good time, but try to keep it positive about the person. But this kind of goes against having a journal. You should be able to put anything you want to into it, without what other people are going to say.

Again a personal choice, if you choose to use an online public use journal you should except the good and bad that goes along with it. Including the terms of use the website sets up for it.

MOWGLI
05-02-2006, 12:37
Including the guy who insisted on telling us what a lousy time he had.

He apparently ate with great gusto, only to bitch about what a horrible time he had.



Actually Jack, I don't think that's what he said at all, and he certainly didn't say anything negative about Miss Janet. It seemed to me he had a bittersweet experience. That happens in life. In fact, I had a couple of experiences like that during my thru-hike.

Shutterbug
05-02-2006, 12:38
... Everyone wants to blast hime for writing in his own journal, and I think that is contradictory to the point of journaling.

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA-->ME

Writing his own journal is one thing. Posting one's "private" thoughts on the internet is another -- especially when the private thoughts are libelous.

mingo
05-02-2006, 12:45
in libel law, truth is an absolute defense

ed bell
05-02-2006, 12:48
Writing his own journal is one thing. Posting one's "private" thoughts on the internet is another -- especially when the private thoughts are libelous.
Exactly my point. Very bad form to call out people in an online journal without doing it face to face. Live and learn I guess. As far as his being dissapointed in his hostel stay, he is totally entitled to his feelings about that. C'est la vie. Shoulda kept hikers names out of it, but he doesn't have to do that either at his own risk.

K0OPG
05-02-2006, 12:51
:( "can't we all just get along"..."let's agree to disagree"...one from the Marine Corps "they ain't happy unless they are bitchin"...and my favorite "opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one and they all stink"

is there anything else i can say to end this thread. geez! such animosity and ill feelings out there. If someone has a great experience OK. if someone doesn't, still OK.

I am planning a thruhike and have read almost everything out there. all books and journals from "hikers" state...hike your own hike.

give it a rest.

:) have a nice day.

semper fi,
coopdog

SGT Rock
05-02-2006, 12:51
I don't think the actual point is libel, it is the basic fact that if you say something on the Internet, even if it is in your "personal" journal, it is still going to be fair game for comments either positive or negative. I could post information here that is my own personal thoughts on things happening in Iraq, but I could go to jail for doing so because I could be saying something in violation of UCMJ like how much SGM XXXX is a dumb-ass or how COL XXX is doing things all screwed up since I have stated something publicly - it doesn't matter whether it is private thoughts or even if it is true.

In this case the person in question said some things in his public "private" journal about a place that many of us have been to and have had a great time. No wonder people are going to comment about it.

Anyway, I hope the guy's hike gets better and he has a good time.

Almost There
05-02-2006, 12:52
Unfortunate truth about online journals...I keep names out or else try and balance a negative with a positive, although in a private journals I probably wouldn't even do this.

Ewker
05-02-2006, 12:58
some of you are acting like he is the first person ever to have a negative comment about a hostel or a hiker in a journal. It is his thoughts so be it. I will say after reading it I can't wait to get to Miss Janet's place oneday

Shutterbug
05-02-2006, 13:03
... You should be able to put anything you want to into it, without what other people are going to say. ...



One should always assume that their "private" journals will become public at some point. That being the case, don't write down anything that would be hurtful to you or someone else, even in your private journal.

I have tried several cases (I am a lawyer) in which people's private journals became part of the discovery. I have watched people sit in courtrooms in embarrassment while their "private" journals were read to the jury and to the public. I remember on one case that an individual had written a lot of insulting things about his boss (in the same nature as Boulder's comments about Jack) in his "private" journal. At the time of the trial, he still worked for the same boss. It was entertaining to watch as his journal was read while his boss was present in the court room.

If one feels compelled to write down potentially embarrassing information, the best practice is to write it down, then use the paper to start the camp fire.

A wise man once said, "Accordingly, what you have said in darkness will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in private rooms will be shouted from the housetops." (Luke 12:3)

The best plan is to not say negative things about others.

Rain Man
05-02-2006, 13:23
It's entertaining to watch everyone jump in to complain about the complaints of others....

I wonder if any of the loudest reactionary complainers actually read the entire journal entry. I did.

This is a tempest in a teapot, not to mention an excellent example of setting up straw men to knock down, which means they are complaining a bit too self-righteously about stuff he didn't say.

If you only read the whiners' posts, you'd think he said nasty things about Miss Janet, when he called her a generous saint.

Rain:sunMan

.

Sly
05-02-2006, 13:39
If you only read the whiners' posts, you'd think he said nasty things about Miss Janet, when he called her a generous saint.

Whose are the whiners posts?

It's clear he didn't say anything derogatory about Miss Janet only her place and a few of her guests. Yet instead of just leaving when he felt uncomfortable, or speaking up and addressing any problems he just chose to whine about it on his online journal.

As someone mentioned, Jack can't rightly defend himself under the circumstances and it would have been best to leave his name out of it, not eat his food then complain.

John B
05-02-2006, 13:46
Shutterbug, if you're an attorney, then I'm somewhat surprised that you would think that his journal entry could be even remotely libelous. I don't see where there is malicious intent to cause injury nor where the comments were known to be false and yet where published anyway with injurious intent. Moreover, I'd think one would have a hard time showing that the comments actually caused financial injury. The journal entry is obviously one person's opinion -- not much different from, say, restaurant reviews published in nearly every newspaper nationwide. Finally, I don't see that he really said anything bad about Miss Janet or the hostel -- in fact, he posted several times how much he liked and admired her -- just that he didn't care for his experience or some of the people he met. So what's the big deal?

Again, I'm impressed with Miss Janet having 37 people in her house and not grabbing a shotgun in the middle of the feast and bagging everyone in there.

Tha Wookie
05-02-2006, 14:40
A wise man once said, "Accordingly, what you have said in darkness will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in private rooms will be shouted from the housetops." (Luke 12:3)

The best plan is to not say negative things about others.

While I disagree that it is libel, I do agree in the general gist of your last post, Shutterbug.

If someone has a problem with Jack, say it to him directly or don't say it at all.

I see a big problem with hikers who always want it their way who choose to complain through rumoring than to face people tha bother them and offer constructive criticism.

Manifest your reality! If you don't like an element, avoid it. No one owes you anything. If you remain to stay without saying a word, that's your own problem. If you say something and are met with grief, then maybe you have a right to seek outside help. But before that it's only really a matter between you and the person you have a problem with.

I write journals all the time, and at no point do I try to convince my self that what I say is not open for public comment. If I have a right to put it on the internet, don't others have the right to respond with what I put into their minds?

At the same time, I realize that writing on the trail can really (and hopefully) disassociate you from the internet perspective. I would not be suprised that the author of it never had ill intentions, but felt it was a purely observational perspective.

In my reading, it seems this person has a good heart but is deeply troubled by the personal issues he describes, which have left him feeling ostracized or outcast due to an identity crisis with his sexual orientation.

If you have only hurt to share, share it in a way where it does not perpetuate.

THE BURDEN OF NOTHING
A student asked T'ou-tzu, "How about when I don't bring a single thing?"

T'ou-tzu said, "Where did you get this?"

Jack Tarlin
05-02-2006, 15:30
Some wise recent comments, especially from Wook and Sgt. Rock.

Sly: I don't feel the need to "defend" myself, for Boulder's comments were foolish as well as false. And how on earth does one argue with anyone who doesn't care for Johnny Cash? Geesh, I don't have time to waste on anyone like that!

Also, a minor correction to Sly's post: While I helped prepare Janet's feast (along with some other great folks) and while I helped supervise the serving at dinnertime, it wasn't "my food" by any means. Nearly everything was purchased and prepared by Janet and her good friend and neighbor "That Guy." All I did was help cook and serve it, as well as supervising the clean-up afterwards. (I don't recall Boulder helping much with any of this, by the way, I guess he was too busy digesting, or festering over what an awful time he was having there.....whatever his complaints about the hostel or the folks in it, it certainly didn't seem to affect his appetite. His disposition is evidently another matter).

I concur with Wook about the tendency of folks to say things on the Internet they wouldn't have the nerve or temerity to say to someone's face. This is one of the reasons that my real name appears on my posts: When I have something strong to say, especially if it's about another individual, I have no problems either taking full credit for my comments, nor do I have a problem addressing folks directly.

Other folks, evidently, prefer to say nasty things hiding behind a rock. Or perhaps a "Boulder."

But it's not worth getting too upset about. As I said earlier, this guy's trip will either be short or fairly solitary. From other comments and entries in his Journal, he's evidently either unhappy, dis-contented, or confused about any number of thngs. Many of his posts so far have been almost relentlessly negative.

I wish him happier days and a better trip, but at the end of the day, folks are about as happy as they themselves decide they want to be. Some people will find a way to be miserable no matter what, and those folks are best left to find their own peace.

kyhipo
05-02-2006, 15:37
Well I always thought miss Janet was a very nice lady!Even when I was a drunk they put up with my sorry rump.I am sure this feller just got spooked or something,I dont know,but just let it be a learning experience,I dont drink anymore so I avoid the party scene!but to sit and judge fellow Hikers,thats not my Job!and well it comes with the turf!hope that feller aint going to trail days,boy he will be in for a treat if he wants some rest.:rolleyes: ky

Sly
05-02-2006, 15:44
Okey dokey Jack. I stand corrected.

hopefulhiker
05-02-2006, 16:33
I liked Miss Janet's hostel. I think that the "hostel thing" is part of the whole trail experience. I don't drink or party and I certainly enjoyed the lasagna breakfast last year at Miss Janets. I have only one or two bad memories from people on the trail. I looked at as a "Looking for America" cultural thing. Sometimes peoples attitudes and beliefs can seem overwhelming and I think this guy could have had just as bad a time in a shelter out on the trail as he did at Miss Janet's depending on his company. Also a word for Baltimore Jack, Even when I tried to start a political argument with him last year, He remained benign and helpful with trail advice and a great steak dinner up there in Glencliff. I, for one, appreciate good meals on a thru-hike provided at hostels.....

Crazy Larry #1
05-02-2006, 16:53
My advice to those northbounders who are truly interested in completely the whole trail is to avoid as many hostels/shelters/designated campsites as possible in the spring down south.what a "a******" statement...........

Crazy Larry #1
05-02-2006, 16:55
well boulder you are absolutely a crybaby..............

halibut15
05-02-2006, 20:57
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen. No one is forced to read the guy's journal, and everyone in this thread is acting much worse than they guy that supposedly started it all. Stop whining and get outside.

joel137
05-02-2006, 22:42
What Rain Man said. Read the journal article, it doesn't sound like an inveterate whiner/complainer to me. In fact he admits that he probably was there on the wrong day, and praises Miss Janet. Basically he says that the experience wasn't his cup of tea, and explains why. Big deal.

Though I admit, it is a publically displayed journal and the author shouldn't be surprised if some of the ad hominem attacks were taken with umbrage.

Krewzer
05-02-2006, 23:04
...Man! This is almost the perfect country and western love song. So far we've got whiskey, Johnny Cash, lonely, somebody done somebody wrong, somebody's got the blues and somebody's on somebody else's fightin' side. All we need is for somebody to mention prison, momma, trains, Uncle Johnny, Wingfoot and "A Walk in the Woods."

I don't blame you Jack, I'd be p***ed too.

Especially if somebody called me middle-aged...or at least I would have been back when I was middle aged. But what the hey, old Jim Beam drinkers have been called whole lot worse by much better people. (Of course being Easter and all...well that cuts pretty deep.)
Perhaps you might try sippin' J. Daniels while visiting the more up-scale establishments. Of which Miss Janet's palace reigns supreme.

Save the "sucking down" for some other road house on the edge of town, out by the train...........that run over Mtn Momma...the day Wingfoot took Bill Bryson's pick up truck to get Uncle Johnny out of prison...in the rain...

ed bell
05-02-2006, 23:12
If you only read the whiners' posts, you'd think he said nasty things about Miss Janet, when he called her a generous saint.

Rain:sunMan

.

I am sure that I never misunderstood the journal entry. I read it as well. I was mearly pointing out that calling out any person by name for criticism in a public forum without addressing the issue in private with said individual is bad form. I noticed that boulder's online journal is at over 25,000 views. That is far from being a private journal shared among a few friends. What whining has to do with my contributions to the topic is beyond me. Post away.:D

ed bell
05-02-2006, 23:17
Perhaps you might try sippin' J. Daniels while visiting the more up-scale establishments. Of which Miss Janet's palace reigns supreme.

Save the "sucking down" for some other road house on the edge of town, out by the train...........that run over Mtn Momma...the day Wingfoot took Bill Bryson's pick up truck to get Uncle Johnny out of prison...in the rain... Gotta love that post, I don't care who you are.:sun

Skyline
05-02-2006, 23:24
Of all the '06 journals on TJ, so far I'm most impressed with Boulder's. He's a good writer and expresses his thoughts, emotions, and the experience of thru-hiking the AT very well. He sure doesn't hide his feelings well, which I guess rankles some folks.

But what did he actually write in the "offending" entry? Well, nothing disparaging about Miss Janet herself, that's for sure. Examples . . .

In the FIRST paragraph: "Miss Janet is a terrific lady and lives up to her reputation but I met her and was at her house on the wrong day."

Two graphs later: "I can't say the food wasn't amazing. There were 37 people in line for the Roast and plenty left over. She and her daughter and a team of hikers, Caboose included, spent 2 days preparing. There was a ham, a turkey, piles of sweet potatoes, sides and gravy and sauces. I went through the line just once and still had no room for dessert."

Next: " headed to McDonald's this morning for cheap breakfast. She sent me out with $30 to buy sausage biscuit sandwiches for all the cooks. She has class. She also shuttled a bunch of us to the grocery store for resupply. After dinner she shuttled those of us leaving to the trailhead."

Further on: "I can never say anything bad about Miss Janet. She loves and is devoted to hikers. When she dropped us at the trail gave me a hug and thanked me for sticking around. Hugs for everyone."

His biggest "sin" in the whole entry, the way I read it, is that he didn't seem to think too much of Jack, and wasn't shy about saying so. In this thread, Jack has certainly used a lot more bandwidth to retalliate. I'm sure they'll both live to hike another day.

warren doyle
05-03-2006, 08:51
Insightful post Skyline, especially the last paragraph.

Mirror, mirror on the wall who is the unhappiest hiker of them all?

"From other comments and entries in his Journal, he's evidently either unhappy, dis-contented, or confused about any number of thngs. Many of his posts so far have been almost relentlessly negative.

I wish him happier days and a better trip, but at the end of the day, folks are about as happy as they themselves decide they want to be. Some people will find a way to be miserable no matter what, and those folks are best left to find their own peace."

Jack Tarlin
05-03-2006, 09:07
I'm happy as a clam, Warren, but it sure is gratifying to see how much you're concerned about this. It does my heart good to know you're thinking of me.

K0OPG
05-03-2006, 10:30
:( halibut, i agree with you. I cannot believe this thread has gone on this long. I tried to stop this thing back on post #35.

I was planning on keeping a journal next year. Now, I might not. Do I want to get bashed and thrashed on this website? over and over and over, geez. Just for writing down what I am feeling or my experiences, good or bad?

If I do go ahead and keep a journal for family and friends, will I write what I am actually feeling? Or will I make it PC so as to not offend anyone. Now I'll have to carry a huge journal with me, of course, then I'll get bashed for carrying too much weight! hahaha:p

anyway, he wrote what he was feeling, what he felt his experience was. he did not bash Miss Janet. Should he have mentioned names? Who cares. That's between him and the people he named.

PLEASE, LET IT GO! I would say "life is too short" but life isn't too short...it's the longest thing you'll ever do. So make the most out of it. I have a saying..."is this going to make a difference in my life 10 or 20 years from now??? If yes, then deal with it. If not, screw it! Get on with something else.

How about someone start a thread about thruhikers BEST experiences while thru hiking. then it won't be so negative.

Well, I do have things to. Have a nice day.:)

Semper Fi,

Coopdog

Footslogger
05-03-2006, 10:35
[quote=COOPDOG]:( I was planning on keeping a journal next year. Now, I might not.
=====================================
Suggestion ...don't let the banter here at Whiteblaze sway you from keeping an on-line journal. If you decide not to, do it for your own reasons.

Most everyone I know who has an on-line journal is darned glad they created and maintained it. You'll be amazed how much it means to YOU once your hike is over. The memory plays tricks on us but if you take the time to record stuff that happened to you along the way you'll always have it.

'Slogger

K0OPG
05-03-2006, 10:49
:) Thank you footslogger. A ray of sunshine in an otherwise dreary thread.

Semper fi,

Coopdog

Nean
05-03-2006, 11:09
Seems some are saying its ok for Boulder to say how he felt, but its not ok for people to say how they feel about his comments. I say hash it out right here on good ol' WB, and if you grow tired of the discusion....:-? ;)

Pennsylvania Rose
05-03-2006, 12:05
[quote=COOPDOG]:( Most everyone I know who has an on-line journal is darned glad they created and maintained it. You'll be amazed how much it means to YOU once your hike is over. The memory plays tricks on us but if you take the time to record stuff that happened to you along the way you'll always have it.

'Slogger

Why not keep a personal journal?

I've kept a journal on and off since I was 12. They are my private thoughts. I write to record what happens, but also to sort out my emotions. The most hurtful thing anyone ever did to me is read my journal, misinterpret what I wrote, and jump to conclusions about our relationship. I would never post a journal online unless it was just boring statistics - probably not even then. Honestly, I don't understand why folks feel the need to put their personal business out for the world to see (personal webpages, myspace, journals, blogs, etc.). Not a criticism, just my thoughts.

shades of blue
05-03-2006, 12:47
In my opinion, the great thing about trail journals is that you can get a feel for the trail (if they're honest) and get good ideas about what trail life is like. Many people have no concept about what hiking a long distance is. What are the pitfalls? What are the bad and good things that happen. How did a hiker overcome a particular adversity. You can see this by reading someone's journal. Often, people don't write what they really feel, so it's not perfect, but sometimes someone writes when they feel run down, or tired...happy and joyous. Also....it's fun to read, especially when you've got the addiction to long distance hiking, but can't do it currently. It's not for everyone....and it's also good to think about who might be reading (I'm a teacher...so I had to take that into consideration when posting my journals on line). It's not a perfect thing...and it has it's drawbacks...but it can be a great tool. Also, it's great to go back and remember particular places and events in my trek North.

MOWGLI
05-03-2006, 13:23
... I don't understand why folks feel the need to put their personal business out for the world to see (personal webpages, myspace, journals, blogs, etc.).

PA Rose:

Many do it so family, friends & co-workers can follow along on the journey.

Skyline
05-03-2006, 14:54
I think the best trail journals are those that take you into a hiker's soul to touch what he or she is feeling. The journal we're discussing in this thread does that very well.

RockyTrail
05-03-2006, 14:59
...(music starts).... this is the thread that never ends ....(music con't):D


Rule No. 1: Don't ever write down anything (especially on the internet) that you don't want to see on the front page of the New York Times.

Rule No.2: See above rule.

Pennsylvania Rose
05-03-2006, 15:47
PA Rose:

Many do it so family, friends & co-workers can follow along on the journey.

Call me old fashioned. Although I enjoy reading trailjournals occasionally, I prefer staying in touch with home using the phone, USPS, or maybe e-mail. Otherwise I'd have to keep a personal journal, a public journal, and still call home so I can hear my family members' voices, and talk about different stuff with different people. Too much work.

My ex (a web designer) says I'll eat my words someday.

Originally Posted by Pennsylvania Rose
... I don't understand why folks feel the need to put their personal business out for the world to see (personal webpages, myspace, journals, blogs, etc.).

I meant in general, not trailjournals in particular. I'm amazed by the personal information people post on the web.

Crazy Larry #1
05-03-2006, 16:55
Miss Janet helps with little in return. She truly is a saint. I understand the idea about a place feeling too crowded, especially if you've been hiking solo for a while. However, it should be expected that you might have to give a little of your peace to experience a lot of the good you might experience in some of the hostels on the trail. Many people grow up in homes where you might have no brothers or sisters, or perhaps only one. Miss Janet's place (the part I experienced) is like have a family of 15 or so. You have to learn how to share space, time and materials. If you can't do that, then a hostel isn't for you. It's ok for him to be upset about his experience....for him, it let him down. I just think it was a matter of unreasonable expectations. As for BJ... when I was there just past Easter, he wasn't unfriendly...or friendly to me. He was just another hiker talking with other thru-hikers (I was doing a short section hike with my new wife :sun and wasn't there for but an hour ) He wasn't taking up more or less space than anyone else, and he certainly wasn't drunk then. I would think it would be hard being a "trail celebrity" like BJ or LW or even WD. Everyone has preconcieved notions about you, and expect you to talk to them or act like whatever you think they should act like. That would be pretty difficult to deal with on a constant basis I would think.right the heck on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rickb
05-04-2006, 06:31
Most on-line journals include not only the writer's photo, but his name. They are what they are.

To my way of thinking, anyone who wants to copy and post large sections here (in violation of copywrite?) should include similar information about himself.

That said,I agree that the journal entry overall was a good one, but that it would have been better had one or two lines omitted fellow hikers'/former hikers' names. Mention of a "trail legend" holding court and drinking or "fellow newby hiker" making untoward comments would have been better, seeing as how the journal writer must have known how widely read his words might be.

People who write about thier feelings in a journal will have something far more special years later, than those who write about the superficial stuff.

This guy didn't say anything bad about Miss J, just the opposite.

Jack Tarlin
05-04-2006, 09:01
This whole thing has turned into a tempest in a teapot.

It's not that big a deal.

A guy had nice things to say about Janet, but then went on in detail about what a disappointing time he had at her place. No, he wasn't slamming her personally, but to enjoy her hospitality and her company, and to eat large quantities of her food, and then to tell thousands of folks what a lousy time he had there is pretty shabby, in my opinion.

As to his personal comments about me, I've gotten fairly thick-skinned over the years about remarks like this. "Holding court?" I'm not sure what he means. Most of my time at Miss Janet's over Easter was spent cooking, serving food, and cleaning up, as well as greeting newcomers, showing them around the place, doing laundry, and looking after things when Janet was on the road. Did I spend time in the kitchen, living room, or front porch shooting the breeze with other hikers, either telling stories, giving advice, talking gear, answering questions, etc.? Sure I did. I do this every time I'm at Janet's.
If Boulder wants to call this "holding court", well that's his problem.

Was I drinking at times? Yup. No question. Last I checked, it was perfectly OK to do so there, and last I checked, I'm over 21.

Was I drunk and obnoxious? No, I wasn't. Anyone wants to confirm this, they can check with anyone else who was there that weekend, including Janet.

Was I playing Springsteen and Johnny Cash? Yup. I sure was. And many people commented favorably on both artists. Who the hell doesn't like Johnny Cash? Did anyone ask that the music be turned down or off? Nope, they never did. Would I have done so if they'd asked? Sure I would. But nobody did.

Anyway, this whole thing is pretty silly. I'm sorry Boulder had a lousy time at Janet's, but his complaints are pretty childish, and several of them are simply false. It's a pity he felt the need to whine about this on his Journal, or cite people by name, instead of either speaking them directly man-to-man, or limiting his commentary to more positive things, but in the end, it's HIS journal. He can write what he wishes. But in the end, if he doesnt like my taste in music, doesn't care for people who drink, and has a problem with me sitting on the porch chatting with other hikers, well, he really needs to get over his peevishness and concentrate on more important things.

Lastly, people have commented on the propriety of quoting or re-printing his comments here. The way I see it, if you post stuff on a publicly accessible Internet page, then it's perfectly OK for other folks to quote you and comment on what you've written. And if some of what you've written is unkind, unfair, or most of all, untrue, well this is going to be commented on as well. The object lesson here is that in the hiker community, if one comments negatively on another individual, whether on the Internet, in a Trail register, or in person, this behavior will be noted, and in turn, will be commented on by others.

The way to avoid this unpleasantness is simple: Either refrain from making these sorts of comments, or have the maturity and class to make your opinions clearly known to the person in question.

And as far as I'm concerned, that concludes the matter.

mingo
05-04-2006, 10:34
Most of my time at Miss Janet's over Easter was spent cooking, serving food, and cleaning up, as well as greeting newcomers, showing them around the place, doing laundry, and looking after things when Janet was on the road.


oh, i get it. you're kind of like the mother teresa of the trail

Tha Wookie
05-04-2006, 11:23
Lastly, people have commented on the propriety of quoting or re-printing his comments here. The way I see it, if you post stuff on a publicly accessible Internet page, then it's perfectly OK for other folks to quote you and comment on what you've written. And if some of what you've written is unkind, unfair, or most of all, untrue, well this is going to be commented on as well. The object lesson here is that in the hiker community, if one comments negatively on another individual, whether on the Internet, in a Trail register, or in person, this behavior will be noted, and in turn, will be commented on by others.



I agree with Jack on all of this but I wanted to submit one thing from a journalist's perspective:

All of the material (text and photos) on Trailjournals is in fact protected by copyright. Technically, copying and pasting from there is like photocopying a book and putting it on-line.

I hope this type of thing would never actually become a legal issue, but this is a good example of why it could. It is taken somewhat out of context.

I'm not preaching to anybody, because I've copied news stories here before, which are protected under the same copyrights, but just adding my 2 cents in support of trail journalist intellectual rights.

Nean
05-04-2006, 11:51
oh, i get it. you're kind of like the mother teresa of the trail

Sorry mingo, mother teresa wasn't much of a hiker :(

c.coyle
05-04-2006, 13:10
... All of the material (text and photos) on Trailjournals is in fact protected by copyright. Technically, copying and pasting from there is like photocopying a book and putting it on-line.

I hope this type of thing would never actually become a legal issue, but this is a good example of why it could. It is taken somewhat out of context.

I'm not preaching to anybody, because I've copied news stories here before, which are protected under the same copyrights, but just adding my 2 cents in support of trail journalist intellectual rights.

This thread is no problem (silly, but no problem). Use of copyrighted material for criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research is "fair use".

Jack Tarlin
05-04-2006, 13:26
Actually, Mingo, being friendly to people, helping out at a hostel, greeting newcomers, and doing chores is pretty much what any hiker should be doing.

Perhaps even YOU might try it some time.

As for the Mother Teresa bit, Janet seems to be occupying that position just fine.

mingo
05-04-2006, 14:33
yes jack, i should be more like you. that's my goal in life. i want to be a drunken freeloader exploiting the kindness of strangers in little towns all along the appalachian trail forever and ever. actually, that doesn't sound too bad now that i think about it.

Dances with Mice
05-04-2006, 14:36
... All of the material (text and photos) on Trailjournals is in fact protected by copyright. Technically, copying and pasting from there is like photocopying a book and putting it on-line. ...Wook, from your viewpoint as an author: If one were to copy a portion of a book and post it online (with reference to its origin) in order to discuss / debate the contents of that section, would that still be considered a copyright infringement or would such use be covered by something I've heard called the "fair use doctrine"?

Jack Tarlin
05-04-2006, 14:36
Being like me would take some effort, Mingo.

Start with something easier.

Taking the stick out of your ass and ceasing to be permanently unpleasant and nasty every single day of your life would be a fine start.

Have a nice day.

tiamalle
05-04-2006, 14:59
Being like me would take some effort, Mingo.

Start with something easier.

Taking the stick out of your ass and ceasing to be permanently unpleasant and nasty every single day of your life would be a fine start.

Have a nice day.This arguement is about Miss Janet and Baltimore Jack.I think they are both SUPER people.I see a lot both of the do to contribute to thru hikers.Thanks to both of you,Ron Haven the Mayor of Franklin:D

Nean
05-04-2006, 18:00
...btw Jack, what makes you think its a "stick"? Sounds more like a limb to me. I saw a bumper sticker today that reminds me of this: I tried seeing things from your point of view.... but I couldn't get my head that far up my :eek:

betic4lyf
05-04-2006, 20:13
i think this whole thing is pretty pointless. if you dont like what he has to say, most computers have this little button on the upper right corner, it is red, with an x through it. if you click it then "boulder"'s comments go away.

Skyline
05-04-2006, 22:30
i think this whole thing is pretty pointless. if you dont like what he has to say, most computers have this little button on the upper right corner, it is red, with an x through it. if you click it then "boulder"'s comments go away.

Boulder hasn't participated in this thread up til now, has he?

Ewker
05-04-2006, 22:40
Boulder hasn't participated in this thread up til now, has he?

I don't even think he has posted at all. Someone else posted his trail journal on here. He probably has no clue about all of this :eek:

MedicineMan
05-05-2006, 05:17
I passed invitations from a girlfriend and my mom to eat Thanksgiving dinner at Miss Janets.....I hope I get invited again this year. Like I told the girlfriend, i wanted to give thanks with my kind of people...

MOWGLI
05-05-2006, 06:18
Boulder hasn't participated in this thread up til now, has he?

Why would he? Remember, he's trying to enjoy his hike.

betic4lyf
05-05-2006, 18:15
point was that the nice thing about the internet is that if you dont like what someone has to say, you dont have to see it

KirkMcquest
05-16-2006, 11:33
Hey Mingo, considering YOU are famous here for your whining, carping, bitching, and constant complaining (for example, you recent rant about Ridgerunners), it doesn't strike me as surprising you're so quick to defend other whiners.

Geez, you guys should form a union or something, or maybe you can become a new politically correct hyphenate, like Whiner-American or something.

And maybe you can find somewhere you can all stay. Together. You guys would no doubt be happy bunking away from everyone else.

And that happiness works both ways, believe me.

Now Jack, your lashing out again. Sounds like Mingo is just trying to voice an honest opinion here. Stop being so defensive, perhaps an intervention might do some good here.

Dust
05-16-2006, 18:57
Some of you really need to get a life.

Whinos, I salute you.

Tinker
05-17-2006, 00:27
:welcome :welcome :confused:

I think we're all adults here.

Well, maybe.

bigcranky
05-17-2006, 20:57
I know I'm getting into this thread awfully late, but reading the original journal entry from Boulder just made me smile. When I got to Miss Janet's in early March, Jack was standing in the kitchen, listening to Bruce and Johnny Cash, and drinking Jim Beam. It all seemed so perfect at the time.