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Rain
05-10-2006, 11:11
Hello, Class of 2007! Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on hiking dogs on the AT. I rescued a black lab over the holiday season and have been busy bonding and training with the him, preparing him for a future hike. If you have experience hiking with a dog over long distances I'd love to hear pointers. What does everyone here think of dogs on the trail? Thanks.

Pacific Tortuga
05-10-2006, 13:23
Hello, Class of 2007! Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on hiking dogs on the AT. I rescued a black lab over the holiday season and have been busy bonding and training with the him, preparing him for a future hike. If you have experience hiking with a dog over long distances I'd love to hear pointers. What does everyone here think of dogs on the trail? Thanks.


You might want to go on search for 'Dogs' I think a few people have expressed their feelings on the subject. Good hiking in 2007,Rain.

Rain
05-10-2006, 14:58
So I see. Sorry, I'm knew to this forum. But that doesn't mean that the '07ers can't put their thoughts down, I'd appreciate it.

Chomp09
05-10-2006, 17:56
You had to go and stir up a hornet's nest, huh? Just couldn't leave well enough alone, could you?

Although my personal opinion is that well behaved Dog's are, and should be welcome on ANY trails, not sure that's the opinion of this crowd.

Good luck, hope you've got your head down... =]

general
05-10-2006, 19:14
dogs are great companions on long distance hikes. be sure to play some fetch on rough surfaces to toughen the pads on his feet. it's a little harder to find accomodations in town but an extra 20 at the desk goes a long way. you should train him to immediately bite anyone that swings their hiking stick at him for no reason.

Rain
05-11-2006, 19:00
Thanks, General, for the tip. I've been conditioning him for the trail for some time now, but there is still much more to do. The town problem isn't entirely bad. It will force me to keep my town stays short.

Rain Man
05-12-2006, 00:16
... What does everyone here think of dogs on the trail?

Any debate is likely to be about dog owners, not dogs.

I have spent one night in a shelter with a dog, and it was great. Here's the link to his photo in my gallery--
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=4619&c=665&userid=1293

Bee Bop was a sweet little pup out on his first hike, with a good owner.
For instance, when we met on the AT, Bee Bop was on a lease, not running loose. And in the shelter, owner Bob made sure to maintain attentive control of Bee Bop and to be very respectful of his shelter mates.

Bee Bop stayed close and even slept in the sleeping bag with Bob!

A good experience was had by all, due to a wise, friendly, respectful, attentive owner!

Rain:sunMan

.

Phreak
05-12-2006, 00:32
I hike about 7-8 days per month with my two dogs and can't imagine going back to hiking without 'em. You'll find the majority of people on the trail are accepting of the dogs... as long as they are well-behaved.

I own a dog obedience/training business, so feel free to drop me an email if you have any specific training questions and/or issues.

B~

ed bell
05-12-2006, 00:32
Although my personal opinion is that well behaved Dog's are, and should be welcome on ANY trails, not sure that's the opinion of this crowd.
With 8,844 members here I'd reword that statement.;) Maybe, say "I'm not sure about this crowd at all":-?

Blue Jay
05-12-2006, 07:06
Hello, Class of 2007! Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on hiking dogs on the AT. I rescued a black lab over the holiday season and have been busy bonding and training with the him, preparing him for a future hike. If you have experience hiking with a dog over long distances I'd love to hear pointers. What does everyone here think of dogs on the trail? Thanks.

IF you thrued in 05, you know exactly how people feel about dogs. If it's possible, stop being a jerk.

Blue Jay
05-12-2006, 07:06
Hello, Class of 2007! Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on hiking dogs on the AT. I rescued a black lab over the holiday season and have been busy bonding and training with the him, preparing him for a future hike. If you have experience hiking with a dog over long distances I'd love to hear pointers. What does everyone here think of dogs on the trail? Thanks.

IF you thrued in 05, you know exactly how people feel about dogs. If it's possible, stop being a jerk.

Chip
05-12-2006, 08:11
Hello Rain,

I section hike with one or two dogs at different times during the year and of course sometimes without them. When I do hike with my dogs I follow a few rules:

1. Always keep your dog on a leash. A well trained dog will keep the same pace as you walk. I use a 6' leash / belt system that keeps my hands free.

2. LNT. Clean up after your dog. Bury waste just like you would dig a cat hole for yourself.

3. TENT or Tarp 50 to 100 yards away from any shelter or campsite. Dogs and shelters do not mix ! The smell of other hikers food, mice at night and other distractions can be a problem. ALSO some hikers don't like dogs.
By keeping some distance from a shelter or campsite where other hikers are camping makes good sense and there should be no trouble.

4. Don't let your dog near a water source. Get the water to your dog.

5. Take your dog off trail at least 10 yards when the dog needs to pee or take a dump. (NO deposits on the trail!!)

6. Always remember to keep your dog under control when passing other hikers. Step off the trail a few yards to let them pass or if you pass them.
Even if your dog is friendly, some folks don't want to be bothered by your dog.

I have found that these few rules work best for me and my dogs.

Best of luck, Happy Trails,
Chip ;)

LIhikers
05-12-2006, 08:50
My wife and I have an 80 pound shephard that we hike with. The longest we've been out with him is 8 days. That being said it can be a lot of extra work to hike with a dog and do it right. We pretty much follow the guide lines that Chip mentioned with one exception. The leash we keep our dog on is called a flexilead. It can be adjusted and locked to any length up to it's total length. Ours is 15 feet but they come longer and shorter. We purposely bought a 3 person tent so there is room in our tent to be comfortable when he's with us. Enjoy your dog's company but be considerate of other hikers even more.

docllamacoy
05-12-2006, 11:16
We've taken our dog, Coy, on two thru-hikes, one AT and one PCT. For those here who know Coy, do I hear any complaints? Probably not. A well-trained dog is a must. I disagree on the leash. Voice control is where it's at. Leashes can be dangerous for you and your dog, IMO. And I can't think of one thru-hiking dog that I knew that stayed leashed up the whole hike. Maybe started out at the beginning, but by Hot Springs, the dogs had usually caught on to the hiking thing.
Try to stay away from shelters at night, unless everyone there knows your dog and is cool with him. Or just set up your tent. Don't leave poo on the trail. We let Coy drink out of water sources, but way downstream.
We never had problems hitchhiking or finding a place to stay. Sometimes we were limited on places to stay, but we always found one if we wanted to.
If your dog is good, you shouldn't have any problems. We didn't run into many, if any, who didn't like our dog being on the trail.

Blue Jay
05-12-2006, 12:17
Voice control is where it's at. Leashes can be dangerous for you and your dog, IMO......We didn't run into many, if any, who didn't like our dog being on the trail.

You ran into them alright you were just waaaay to thick to notice.

docllamacoy
05-12-2006, 12:49
You ran into them alright you were just waaaay to thick to notice. Hence, why I said "many". Didn't know you. Were you out there in '03? And what about OUR dog, in particular, bothered you? Please let me know, so we can correct it. Or was it just the general idea of a dog that bothered you?

Ridge
05-12-2006, 13:15
......I disagree on the leash. Voice control is where it's at. Leashes can be dangerous for you and your dog, IMO......

Everyone else who takes a dog on the trail believes the same thing. Thats why hikers, like me, deplore dogs on the trail, in streams, and in shelters!!!

docllamacoy
05-12-2006, 14:53
Everyone else who takes a dog on the trail believes the same thing. Thats why hikers, like me, deplore dogs on the trail, in streams, and in shelters!!!What's the difference between a dog under complete voice control and a dog on leash? I've lived in places where off-leash dogs are the norm, and they happen to be very well-trained when grown accustomed to being guided by voice rather than pull on a leash. I used to a dog walker and would have 6 or 7 dogs all off-leash (at an off-leash park) and under good voice control. Put those same dogs on a leash, and they're out of control.
I guess I should add to my original post that if your dog is not under strict voice control, then it does belong on a leash or not on the trail. I do know one real *****bag of a dog that was on the trail in '03, and the owner's had no clue as to how to train it. Even on leash, it was terrible. Definitely a trail dog that gives others a bad name. It should not have been out there.
We only stayed in shelters 3 times on the trail; two of those times, we had the shelter to ourselves. The 3rd time was under crazy circumstances that happened unexpectedly where I was without other shelter for the night, and made sure Coy didn't bother anyone. That didn't and never will happen again.
I won't deny your feelings about dogs on the trail; you have every right to feel the way you do. But since dogs ARE allowed on the trail, I think it's important for those who do not like dogs to let the owners know and to be clear about it. A truly responsible dog owner will take every action necessary to either remove the dog from your presence or keep the dog away from you for the moment while they are there (you may already do this and that's great). But if you sit there and stew without saying anything, then you have contributed to the problem. Since some of us are so "thick" (as I was called earlier by someone who doesn't even know my dog), we may need a little help from you to know that you're not okay with our dog. Not saying that's how it should be since we should be able to recognize a person's dislike of our dog, but sometimes, we just might not be paying attention to the quiet hiker over in the corner.
It's hard to step in someone else's shoes on this issue. Only those who've thru-hiked with a dog know the pure joy it is for both owner and dog. It just brings so much happiness to have your dog with you on the trail; it really does. And when you see your dog getting to live outdoors every day and loving it, you know you've done the right thing in bringing him/her with you. Dogs are animals; most animals want to be outside with the ability to roam. With all the dog rules in this country, we've really denied that to them, and I think it's so sad (although justified). Coy is ecstatic every time we go for a walk. She LOVES it. And once again, we live in a place where she doesn't have to be leashed. She's so well-trained that I can point my finger and she goes in that direction. Yeah, this is just me, but I know there are other dog owners out there who have brought their dogs on a thru-hike and have seen them become better and happier dogs for it. Okay, so yeah, I'm a little obsessed with my dog, I'll admit it.:D
As I said, though, it's really hard for me to step into your shoes and know how you feel. I can try to understand it, but as someone who really enjoys taking her dog on the trail, it is hard.
I just wish there was a way for us all to get along, but on a trail like the AT, that just isn't going to happen. Too many people with too many conflicting ideas. And dogs are just one of many issues.
I do apologize if my dog has offended you in anyway. I would appreciate it if you (general "you") would just speak up if I run into you on the trail. I won't get offended. And, just so you know, we did always have a leash with us in case we needed it.
For now, and I hope forever, dogs are a part of life on the trail. Let's try to stop being so bitter about it and work together to make our trail life more enjoyable.

docllamacoy
05-12-2006, 14:54
Sorry for the typos, I have a nursing baby in my lap, and sometimes it's hard to type. :) Guess, I should read it over before I hit send, huh?

Rain Man
05-12-2006, 15:08
... We didn't run into many, if any, who didn't like our dog being on the trail.

Llama,

I hear such self-serving, self-laudatory general proclamations from dog owners all the time and they strike me as incredibly lame.

Did you have some independent research group do anonymous polls after you passed through? How do you know what goes on in anyone's mind? You a mind-reader?

Do you really expect us to believe hikers are going to say to your face "I don't like your dog" or "I don't like something your dog did"?!

This is the sort of tunnel vision from owners gets "obivous" and old fast.

And "voice control"??? I've yet to see a pet dog completely and reliably subject to voice control. I think the concept is like unicorns, a fantasy one only hears about.

Rain Man

.

Ridge
05-12-2006, 15:13
Sorry for the typos, I have a nursing baby in my lap, and sometimes it's hard to type. :) Guess, I should read it over before I hit send, huh?

Or maybe your dog was out of "Voice" range and you where trying to find him.

docllamacoy
05-12-2006, 16:16
Llama,



Do you really expect us to believe hikers are going to say to your face "I don't like your dog" or "I don't like something your dog did"?!

ABSOLUTELY! They should. If one can't take it, then the dog shouldn't be out there. Doc and I are not the sort of people who take offense to things easily.
Honestly, I would feel terrible if after the trail, I find out that Coy bothered someone so much, but that they didn't tell me and tried to hide it. Say something, really. It just doesn't help this whole issue, if someone just sits and stews and then complains about it later. Nothing has been learned from the situation.


And "voice control"??? I've yet to see a pet dog completely and reliably subject to voice control. I think the concept is like unicorns, a fantasy one only hears about.

Rain Man

.Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen plenty of them in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Key West and even here in Texas.

docllamacoy
05-12-2006, 16:19
Or maybe your dog was out of "Voice" range and you where trying to find him.That's the dumbest response I've ever gotten, but I have to say it did make me laugh.
No, Coy is actually sitting under a tree in the yard right now, just outside the window, and well within voice range. :rolleyes:

docllamacoy
05-12-2006, 16:21
I'm going to stop responding in this thread now. I feel it's been discussed more than enough times on this board that people are sick of it.
We'll never see eye to eye, but that's okay. How boring of a world if we all agreed all the time.

ed bell
05-13-2006, 22:38
I'm going to stop responding in this thread now. I feel it's been discussed more than enough times on this board that people are sick of it.
We'll never see eye to eye, but that's okay. How boring of a world if we all agreed all the time.I own a border collie who is just a couple months over 2 years old. Great dog, is voice controlled and I care not about the venom in some posts about the subject. It boils down to this: get out there, enjoy the trail time with your dog, limit the interaction with other hikers. Other than that, if you are in your legal right to have your dog with you, hike on. :sun

Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-13-2006, 22:55
I don't have a dog, but I've run into plenty on hiking trails. Some animals appear to be ill-prepared for the experience. They are running everywhere, spooking the wildlife and jumping on/ licking other hikers. Others, both on leashes and under voice control, have been a joy to encounter on the trail.

If you are going to take a dog long-distance hiking, it might be wise to plan to stay somewhere other than shelters when possible. Also, be aware that people are not going to be thrilled to see a dog playing or swimming in their drinking water. Since a dog can't bury his own poo-poo, you'll have to do it for him. A little forethought goes a long way toward having other hikers welcome (or at least tolerate) your pet on the trail.

Nean
05-14-2006, 00:51
Llama,

How do you know what goes on in anyone's mind? You a mind-reader?

Do you really expect us to believe hikers are going to say to your face "I don't like your dog" or "I don't like something your dog did"?

Rain Man

.

I thought this amusing. :rolleyes:

And maybe you are right, some people will act one way on the trail, another behind their screen. Too bad.:(

KirkMcquest
05-14-2006, 00:54
Hello, Class of 2007! Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on hiking dogs on the AT. I rescued a black lab over the holiday season and have been busy bonding and training with the him, preparing him for a future hike. If you have experience hiking with a dog over long distances I'd love to hear pointers. What does everyone here think of dogs on the trail? Thanks.

Love dogs, have no problem with them on the trail as long as they are not aggressive. Bring him along!:D

Rain
05-14-2006, 02:38
Hello again, folks. Lets get started, shall we?

First off, I'd like something clarified for me, please. Is this not the 'Private forum for 2007 thru-hikers'? I thought it was. That won't be the last time I'm wrong, I'm sure. I'm even sure that some of you are going to pick my coming reply apart, cause thats just what you do. Thats your form of self-gratification. I came here, to this site, to this forum even, hoping to talk with 2007 thru-hikers, to see what they thought. Heh, yeah...

Pacific Tortuga: Yeah, I had only just joined and hadn't made time to research just how big this issue was on this site. Perhaps that was an error. Though I read no rule upon joining that I had to read through everything before posting anything. My bad. My only interest was this one forum.

Grimmy: My head is held high, thanks.

General: Thanks for the paw conditioning tip. Not sure about that attack command though. I want him to remain friendly to all and that would confuse him, I think. Besides, I would do bodily harm to anyone striking my dog before he could retaliate. Thats a promise.

Phreak: I'll have to take you up on that offer. Thanks. Really, his seperation anxiety isn't improving any.

Ed Bell: I have serious thoughts about this crowd too...

Blue Jay: When I was hiking, very few problems and conversations concerning them came up. One was a Pitt Bull that was very aggressive and didn't belong on the trail (good thing he didn't last either). Another was a great dog that just couldn't handle the heat (fur was way too thick) and owner wouldn't cut it. Third problem, which really tested me, was a dog that was forced to hike on with his owner even with a busted hip. All of these issues revolved around the dog owners, not their dogs. No one is a mind reader in this world. We all do our best to understand nonverbal cues from people, especially when they lack the skills or courage to be verbal. It's extremely difficult after a few weeks on the Trail to look at a fellow hiker, see their frown, and automatically think-- "My dog did something to upset him." When other things come to mind, like anger at the shelter mice for eating through a pack and removing snack bars, or waking to another day of rain after a week of straight rain, or just a simple frown of exhaustion. No, I'm supposed to KNOW that everyone deplores dogs. Yeah, right. Come back to that all you like, Blue Jay, but I doubt you or many of the others here have actually talked with the dog owners about how you feel. It's really easy to hold it all in and then wait 'till you get home, jump online, and complain all you like. In this day and age, its what we all do, even me. Oh, thanks for the compliment.

Chip: Thanks, Chip! This is what I wanted! Very helpful. I'll look into these leashes, they sound great.

LIhikers: Heh, I really must check out this leash. Sad to say I haven't seen one out on the trail. Thanks.

Llama: Big thanks, Llama. You had a lot of great things to say and you mainly just got bashed in response. I'm sorry for that. I started this thread, I should take the heat. Anyways, I agree with the voice control part, but I'd prefer excellence on both sides. Leash and voice. It's really great that your dog is so well trained. I've seen dogs of the like and have a hard time of seeing my dog as one of those. Hehe. He is still a juvenile though and I know it. Time, training, patience. We shall see. I agree with not meeting many, if any, people out on the Trail that had problems with the hiking dogs. From what I could tell, we loved them... though felt sorry for some owners because they were the ones who had to take on the extra burden of a dog while we just mooched off the unconditional love that the dogs gave to all of us.

Ridge: Not all dog owners think/fell this way, and you are very foolish to think so. Yes, I said it, foolish. I'm sure your next reply will be as immature as your last one. Know that I will be unfazed.

Rain Man: Wow. Just... Wow. From what I can tell, nothing I say to you will you actually take in. By that I mean actually consider what other people say. So with that said, I hope your colonoscopy goes well.

Ed Bell: Thanks, I agree.

Frolicking Dinosaurs: Thanks. Unfortunately, I have seen many ill-behaved dogs while hiking. Usually the active tourist spots, like the Shenandoah's, where weekend warriors and the like come out and bring their dogs with them.

Nean: =) I'd hug you if I could, Sugah. That was great.

KirkMcquest: Thanks, I will.

Some final thoughts-- I feel that everyone is holding things in too much. We go through life with our heads held low, tails tucked, and do our utmost to be politically correct. Am I the only one who is becoming frustrated with this? Am I the only one who sees something wrong in this? I'm NOT talking about online chatting of any kind, cause this doesn't count worth a damn. If you can't say to someone's face what you say online then you don't have any right saying it at all. Start TALKING people!
I came to this site hoping for a decent conversation, hoping to talk with future friends... Don't think I need to say that I was disappointed.

I really must get to bed. Work comes early. My dogs almost appear to be glaring at me for staying up so late. Must be my imagination...

Take care everyone.

LuTotten
05-14-2006, 10:48
Hello again, folks. Lets get started, shall we?

First off, I'd like something clarified for me, please. Is this not the 'Private forum for 2007 thru-hikers'? I thought it was. That won't be the last time I'm wrong, I'm sure.

You are correct on that, however you picked a topic that nobody can resist.(Me being one of them)



Thanks. Unfortunately, I have seen many ill-behaved dogs while hiking. Usually the active tourist spots, like the Shenandoah's, where weekend warriors and the like come out and bring their dogs with them.



What does being a weekend warrior have to do with how well behaved your dog/dogs are? I am a section hiker who take my 2 small dogs out with me nearly everytime. They are well behaved (under a combination of voice and leash control, voice when there is nobody around and leash when we approach people.) I clean up after them, camp at least 50 yards from shelters except one occasion I stayed in a shelter with 2 other dog owners and 2 other dogs, I carry water for them so they don't drink from sources, they do not harrass wildlife, I make sure to even clean up the crumbs from their food so as not to attract animals... Trying not to take it personally but you can't aim comments like that at one general group.

neo
05-14-2006, 10:52
yes i love hillary clinton and i am proud of it.she is the woman of my dreams:D

good for you dude:cool: neo

KirkMcquest
05-14-2006, 10:57
good for you dude:cool: neo

Weird, I must have been 'sleep typing' when I wrote that, I've obviously got some issues.:-?

neo
05-14-2006, 11:01
Weird, I must have been 'sleep typing' when I wrote that, I've obviously got some issues,i love her more every day.:-?

:D bingo give the puppy a bone:cool: neo

Nean
05-14-2006, 11:36
:D bingo give the puppy a bone:cool: neo

Now I am confused :confused: we talking about Hillary...... or Bill ;)

rpettit
05-14-2006, 11:41
I own a dog and take him on the trail, but is always leashed, I camp away from shelters and groups of people because I hammock and other people may not like dogs. You may have the confidence that your dog is under complete voice control, and the dog may actually be, but other hikers may not share that confidence. Other hikers do not have any previous history with your dog and it's training, therefore it can be an intimidating experience passing an unleashed dog on the trail. When I pass a unleashed dog on the trail I am always concerned about the possibilty of getting bit.
I would recommend that your dog remained leashed on the trail for this primarily reason.

If you choose not to leash your dog and another hiker feels threatened by your dog, and then your dog gets to close to them, and the other hiker gives it a quick rap on the head with a trekking pole, don't get mad at the other hiker. It is your fault and your irresponsibilty that allowed the incident to occur.

Nearly Normal
05-14-2006, 12:13
Famous quotes from dog owners on the trail.
"He won't bite"
"Opps, he never did that before"
"Here boy, here boy, here boy, here boy............................"
"Hush boy, hush boy, hush boy, hush boy.........................."

The AT is for people!
Pete

Ridge
05-14-2006, 13:55
......Ridge: Not all dog owners think/fell this way, and you are very foolish to think so. Yes, I said it, foolish. I'm sure your next reply will be as immature as your last one. Know that I will be unfazed........


AND the reply is: Did the aliens forget to remove your anal probe?

Ewker
05-14-2006, 14:28
ABSOLUTELY! They should. If one can't take it, then the dog shouldn't be out there. Doc and I are not the sort of people who take offense to things easily.
Honestly, I would feel terrible if after the trail, I find out that Coy bothered someone so much, but that they didn't tell me and tried to hide it. Say something, really. It just doesn't help this whole issue, if someone just sits and stews and then complains about it later. Nothing has been learned from the situation.


you might be one of the few who don't take offense to things easily. Most dog owners would get offended if other hikers did say something bad about their dogs.

I went on a hike recently where the dogs almost out numbered the people. The dogs were on a leash at first then about a mile down the trail the leash's came off. The dogs ran up and down the trail (running into everyone as they passed), fought with each other along the trail and at camp, the dogs were up in people's faces when it was time to eat and tried to get into the tents. The owners stood there watching and did nothing.
To me all of these dogs should have been on a leash. I will not go hiking with these folks again unless it is a no dog hike.

FatMan
05-14-2006, 16:27
I have met more out-of-control humans on the trail than out-of-control dogs. Therefore, using the same logic of some on this forum I must ask all humans to stay at home.

The trail is a huge place. There is room for everyone. Hike your own hike. If you don't like what is going on in an area, just move on. There is a peaceful place right around the corner.

Rain
05-14-2006, 22:44
Fatman, that is perfect. Maybe one day down the line more people will think that way.

Ridge
05-14-2006, 23:33
I have met more out-of-control humans on the trail than out-of-control dogs. Therefore, using the same logic of some on this forum I must ask all humans to stay at home.

The trail is a huge place. There is room for everyone. Hike your own hike. If you don't like what is going on in an area, just move on. There is a peaceful place right around the corner.

Just don't plan on staying at shelters. Hikers with dogs especially love the shelters on rainy nights. A shelter full of hikers and wet dogs, don't mix well.

Nean
05-15-2006, 08:05
Rain said, "I'm sure your next reply will be as immature as your last one."


AND the reply is: Did the aliens forget to remove your anal probe?

That is so surreal!:rolleyes: :D

As it turns out, Rain is the "mind-reader"!!:rolleyes: :eek:

Ridge
05-15-2006, 17:23
...........Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen plenty of them in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Key West and even here in Texas.

Seems like the dogs here at WB are "Voiced" controlled.

Just look at all the pictures of dogs posted here at WB. Pictures of hikers with there pets in shelters, on the trail and none that I've seen have been leashed. The percentage of the pix here of leashed dogs are about the same as experienced on the trail. My experience is I have only seen one, maybe 2 of a thousand dogs on the trail that were leashed. If one hikes enough they'll see the same. Also, next time you come to a shelter look at the piles of dog crap will be right next to a cigarette butt. Also, I don't think they removed a leash to take the picture either.

SteveJ
05-15-2006, 23:40
Seems like the dogs here at WB are "Voiced" controlled.

Just look at all the pictures of dogs posted here at WB. Pictures of hikers with there pets in shelters, on the trail and none that I've seen have been leashed. The percentage of the pix here of leashed dogs are about the same as experienced on the trail. My experience is I have only seen one, maybe 2 of a thousand dogs on the trail that were leashed. If one hikes enough they'll see the same. Also, next time you come to a shelter look at the piles of dog crap will be right next to a cigarette butt. Also, I don't think they removed a leash to take the picture either.

You haven't looked very closely, have ya, Ridge?

there's this one - note the flexi-lead attached to my son's pack waist belt, and the metal collar around her neck:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=9360&c=517

oh, there's also this one:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=9361&c=517

and another one!
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=9362&c=517

one advantage of the flexi lead is that you can easily pull the dog in to your side - which we always do when we meet another hiker.

and no, she's not totally voice controlled - sibes are generally too strong-willed to have totally voice controlled. I don't trust her off-lead, and she is never off-lead when we hike, or any other time that she's outside our back yard fence.

I'm not thrilled when hiking with dogs off lead. I've been with friends of friends twice in the last 2 years who brought dogs off-lead, and won't go back with these folks again because they don't control their dogs. I agree that there are some - perhaps many - hikers who don't control their dogs, and aren't pleasant to be around. I also believe there are many on the trail who are jerks in other ways which can be as, if not more, annoying as an uncontrolled dog.

I find that generalizations are almost always off-base...."...all the pictures of dogs posted here at WB", unless, I guess, it's a generalization about any post from you on the subject of dogs on the trail.....

general
05-16-2006, 17:46
Seems like the dogs here at WB are "Voiced" controlled.

Just look at all the pictures of dogs posted here at WB. Pictures of hikers with there pets in shelters, on the trail and none that I've seen have been leashed. The percentage of the pix here of leashed dogs are about the same as experienced on the trail. My experience is I have only seen one, maybe 2 of a thousand dogs on the trail that were leashed. If one hikes enough they'll see the same. Also, next time you come to a shelter look at the piles of dog crap will be right next to a cigarette butt. Also, I don't think they removed a leash to take the picture either.

a thousand? that's a bunch of dog's. maybe a little stretch?

Skidsteer
05-16-2006, 18:56
Just look at all the pictures of dogs posted here at WB.

Speaking of photos, Ridge, where are yours?

I checked your photo gallery yet again( thanks, Attroll, for making it wicked easy ), and it still reads, "No images to display" .

Scanner still not working?

ed bell
05-16-2006, 19:52
a thousand? that's a bunch of dog's. maybe a little stretch? Ridge has stretching problems.:D

Vi+
05-16-2006, 21:33
I resisted opening this thread which, surprisingly, started out quite amicably.

Then it became real. Real observations were made. Some dogs aren’t suited to hike with humans who are not their owners. Some dogs aren’t suited to hike distances. Some hikers have bad experiences involving dogs, most of which are accompanied by their hiker-owner.

Then the pro-dog posters reacted. Not me. I’ve never done that. I wouldn’t do that. Not my dog. My dog has never done that. My dog would never do that.

Then those who posed negative dog issues reacted against the pro-dog hikers.

Then the pro-doggers reacted against the reactions of the negatives.

I have met dogs which were great hikers. I have also met dogs which shouldn’t have been on the same trail. We used to have a saying where I worked, “One ‘Aw $hit’ erases ten thousand ‘Atta Boys.’ ” No matter how good your dog is, there will be another dog coming along, or one preceded yours, which was decidedly a negative.

If the original question was phrased differently - “I am perfect. My dog is perfect. Do you think it would be all right if we hike together?” - the responses you receive might be more in line with the reassurances you obviously seek.

Tinker
05-16-2006, 23:41
Dogs don't hike.

They just follow their masters wherever they go, and go wherever they follow.:(

joel137
05-17-2006, 00:13
Hello Rain,

I section hike with one or two dogs at different times during the year and of course sometimes without them. When I do hike with my dogs I follow a few rules:

1. Always keep your dog on a leash. A well trained dog will keep the same pace as you walk. I use a 6' leash / belt system that keeps my hands free.

2. LNT. Clean up after your dog. Bury waste just like you would dig a cat hole for yourself.

3. TENT or Tarp 50 to 100 yards away from any shelter or campsite. Dogs and shelters do not mix ! The smell of other hikers food, mice at night and other distractions can be a problem. ALSO some hikers don't like dogs.
By keeping some distance from a shelter or campsite where other hikers are camping makes good sense and there should be no trouble.

4. Don't let your dog near a water source. Get the water to your dog.

5. Take your dog off trail at least 10 yards when the dog needs to pee or take a dump. (NO deposits on the trail!!)

6. Always remember to keep your dog under control when passing other hikers. Step off the trail a few yards to let them pass or if you pass them.
Even if your dog is friendly, some folks don't want to be bothered by your dog.

I have found that these few rules work best for me and my dogs.

Best of luck, Happy Trails,
Chip ;)

All good advice, and if all or 95% of dog owners followed this, there would be no problem.

speaking as a person who generally doesn't like dogs on the trail I'd say that the 50-100 yds from the shelter is a little too stringent; if you are following all of the other bits of advice, over 20 yds would be sufficient. IMO.

Rift Zone
05-17-2006, 21:07
The tips posted by Chip are excellent. I don't hike with dogs but I am fond of them, never had any real problem with any dog on the trail.

If your dog is any kind of agressive, leave him at home. I'll feel bad for the owner losing a pet but any agressive dog that comes my way made it's own choice.

Doggie doo on the trail, shelter, watering or camping areas is most certainly bad karma.

The only worry I have is when I'm cooking and have all my food out. The few moments I didn't appreciate a dog around was when it was taking too much interest in MY food... Don't make me watch your dog and I'll be a happy camper.

Viking (US)
05-18-2006, 13:47
What Rift Zone said.

And I keep out of the regularly scheduled Flame Wars around here, but I just gotta say that Doc, Llama and Coy are some of the coolest people (and dog) that I know. Never had a problem with any of them in '03. Some of y'all need to decide if you want to have a site where people can share advice, or a private club. Just sayin'.

Vi+
05-18-2006, 14:50
Viking (US),

You’ve written an interesting post.

“I keep out of the regularly scheduled Flame Wars around here ...”

I wasn’t aware this had become a “Flame War” - a Flame Tempest in a Teapot, maybe - nor that Flame Wars are REGULARLY scheduled. There are some hot button topics which are fairly assured to raise passionate points of view; dogs is one of them. Those of us who didn’t know this, know now.

I suspect most of us like dogs, but there are instances, especially given the intimate environment of strangers hiking and living together, where dog-and-other-hiker relationships can fair poorly.

“... I just gotta say that Doc, Llama and Coy are some of the coolest people (and dog) that I know. Never had a problem with any of them in '03.”

Since you have the imprimatur to authorize potentially bothersome behavior, please judge the suitability of other people who want to take their dog hiking with them. Tell those of whom you disapprove to leave their dog home. This will be of great service.

“Some of y'all need to decide if you want to have a site where people can share advice, or a private club. Just sayin'.”

The original post included, “Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on hiking dogs on the AT. ... What does everyone here think of dogs on the trail?” I don’t recall anyone suggesting negative “advice” is unsuitable to be “shared.” If you’re suggesting we can only present positive advice here, and need a private club to share any negative advice, please speak more plainly.

Ewker
05-18-2006, 15:48
A friend of mine is hiking the AT and I was reading his Trails Journal. This was in one of his last post.

"Woke up and it was raining. It rained all day. Thought about just staying in the shelter and taking an 0 day, but after everyone left, I finally decided to move on. Just as I finished packing my belongings, a man and woman came into the shelter with their dog. They were all soaked. Now I love dogs alot, but I would never bring my dog into a shelter. It started shaking, flinging water all over the place, then it started rolling around on the floor. I was so glad I had my stuff in my pack, because it would have been soaked and we all would have had a bad day."

I think this is what causes a lot of the problems. It isn't the dogs fault it is the owners fault. I just wonder how that couple would have reacted if the situation had been reversed.

Rift Zone
05-18-2006, 17:24
I came to this site hoping for a decent conversation, hoping to talk with future friends... Don't think I need to say that I was disappointed.Hi Rain,
Human drama is what gives most people contentment. Virtually every tv show demonstrates this point. I feel that the argumentitive approch demonstrated by some members is an attempt to ingage in thier own drama. Pay no mind to those that merely "pitch a bitch". I think intertainmnet is the motivating factor. I also think you're handling the situation perfectly. I hope you're not entirely discouraged... There are many who come here for conversation rather than drama.

See ya on the trail!

Ridge
05-18-2006, 20:13
.............. It started shaking, flinging water all over the place, then it started rolling around on the floor. I was so glad I had my stuff in my pack, because it would have been soaked and we all would have had a bad day........ I just wonder how that couple would have reacted if the situation had been reversed.

Wonder what their reaction would have been if they where asked to take the dog outside??? This type of thing is typical, its not going to stop, just get worse. Rude a..holes thinking the trail revolves around them and their dog and the people who take up for them just hasn't been on the receiving end of this kinda crap.

Chip
05-18-2006, 21:04
All good advice, and if all or 95% of dog owners followed this, there would be no problem.

speaking as a person who generally doesn't like dogs on the trail I'd say that the 50-100 yds from the shelter is a little too stringent; if you are following all of the other bits of advice, over 20 yds would be sufficient. IMO.

Thank you Joel137 for your input. I have a good reasons for the 50 to 100 yards stay away from shelter sites. That being 1. Dogs have a super nose for smell, right, I don,t want my dogs to sniff someones food cooking (just mine, I can control my dogs better with the distance between us and the shelter). Different foods give off different aromas, so it can be a temptation for any well trained dog. 2. Noise factor, let's say you have to get up during the night and leave the shelter for the privy or whatever. My dog will be far enough away not to be bothered and also will not bark. If my dog should start barking at least it won't be in everyone's ears. I can control my dog once again by being 50-100 yards away. I can calm them down with ease if they should bark, they won't continue to bark if they can't hear or see you that well. 3. At 50 to 100 yards away I also give hikers who tent near the shelter the respect they also deserve. 4. Everyone gets a good nights sleep including my dogs. Hope this explains my reason for the distance needed.
Happy Trails,
Chip ;)

Heater
05-18-2006, 22:09
AND the reply is: Did the aliens forget to remove your anal probe?

They removed mine but left the penile implant.

frieden
07-05-2006, 12:10
And "voice control"??? I've yet to see a pet dog completely and reliably subject to voice control. I think the concept is like unicorns, a fantasy one only hears about.

Rain Man

.

Actually, many dogs are trained on reliable, complete voice control - and I do mean complete. Can you image police or search dogs without voice control? Unless you are in the business, you don't normally see them. When they aren't working, they are at seminars, training, etc. Most of the working dogs I know train on private property in groups. The dogs we see out on the trail and in dog parks do not have professional dog trainer owners, and therefore do not have professionally trained dogs. (by professionally, I mean training to a certain standard) We've been through this before, and as stated above, it is an owner problem. Working dogs are very valuable, and very protected. Normally, they are shielded from the ignorant public as much as possible. This protects the dogs, but allows untrained dogs to define their image.

If you have a working/professional-level trained dog, please bring them out on the trail! We need them to show what a responsible owner is like!!!

It is up to the owner to know the dog's limits. Ed is a working dog, but he is still a puppy, and is not consistent. At Petsmart, he pulls on the leash, and tries to play with the other dogs. At work, he is focused, and knows when to do what. He is not reliable enough yet to let off lead, so I don't. On the trail, it takes him a good 3-5 miles to get in his "zone", and we hike alone at a good pace, without him stopping to sniff every 5 seconds.

It isn't always the owner's fault, which is why we need to train, train, train! There was a customer at work a few months ago, who was slapping their chest, and saying "come 'er puppy!" Before I realized it, Ed had jumped up on them - and they got mad! Well, you idiot, that's just what you asked him to do! A fully trained dog will ignore other people, and will look to the handler on what to do next. Ed is past most of it now, if I can just get people to stop petting him behind my back (mind you, there is a big "do not pet" sign on the back of his).

People with small children can relate. They get overwhelmed, and feel that they have to deal with the kids behavior 24/7, so you can deal with it for 1 measly hour. Smokers felt the same way, which is why smoking is now banned in buildings. I was sometimes stern and unyeilding with my kids on their behavior (I was a pushover for everything else), and people criticized me for it. These same people praised me for how well my kids behaved in public, and what a joy it was to be around them. Duh. How do you think they got that way? The kids didn't like being repremanded, but they liked that everyone liked them. Ed is the same way. He loves kids, but none of the kids would play with him, because he would jump up and knock them down. He didn't like his non-jumping-up training at all, but he likes the fact that kids come up to him now. He is finally able to interact with kids in a safe way, and he is blissfully happy about it.

I've heard people say that completely training a dog ("robot" dog, they called them) like that is cruel, because the dog has no free will. He looks to the handler for everything. I'm not a professional dog trainer, but I can tell that Ed is happier as a trained dog, than an untrained dog. An untrained dog is always "getting into trouble", and doesn't understand why. Training reduces the stress on the dog, and everyone around him.

Wow, I do get going, don't I. Don't worry, I only rattle on in person, if I'm nervous. Hehehe. :)

Ridge
07-05-2006, 12:17
Actually, many dogs are trained on reliable, complete voice control - and I do mean complete. .............


Yea, the last time I saw a dog that even came close to this was at Kennedy International Airport, when I say close, it was still leashed. I've only seen maybe 2 or 3 dogs on the AT that was even leashed. The other 1000 or so I've seen just came out of a fenced in yard and was running wild among everybody.

frieden
07-05-2006, 12:25
Hello, Class of 2007! Just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on hiking dogs on the AT. I rescued a black lab over the holiday season and have been busy bonding and training with the him, preparing him for a future hike. If you have experience hiking with a dog over long distances I'd love to hear pointers. What does everyone here think of dogs on the trail? Thanks.

To answer your original question, I had a problem with Ed pulling me down and off the trail. He is very powerful, and could pull me off my feet. I tried a suggestion from the Monks of New Skete, and it worked like a charm. Start walking down the trail/sidewalk/whatever. As soon as the dog pulls, say "let's go", turn, and walk in the other direction. Don't wait for the dog to turn, just start walking. The dog will bolt ahead of you, and as soon as he pulls again, do it again. Do this everytime. It is very time consuming, but it works.

Avoid boots, if your dog isn't used to them. It removes their ability to grip with their paws.

Long distance hiking is just as psychological for your dog as it is for you - bring a ball/Frisbee/tug.

Be the spokesperson for blaze orange, and your dog can still get shot. Unlike most responsible gun owners who only shoot at what they can identify, hunters claim they don't have time for that, and shoot at whatever moves (they try to avoid humans, because of lawsuits). This is another reason Ed stays on lead.

Use cat food, instead of dog food. It is higher in nutrition, and lighter. Gradually start your dog on cat food about a month before going on the trail.

Many dogs will wear packs. Ed will not. Good luck with that.

For general tips, contact a K9 search and rescue group. I am still trying to get long-distance advice myself.

Good luck, and if you find any good advice, email me. See ya out there!

frieden
07-05-2006, 13:15
I understand your fear, Ridge, and many others. My big fear on the trail is stupid people, and my biggest fear is stupid people with dogs.

A couple of weeks ago at work, we had a scary encounter with another service dog. Ed has always been a non-barking dog. I couldn't even get him to bark during training. He also failed out of bite work training, because of his non-aggressive nature. That's ok. He's proven that he will protect me if I'm in danger, and since he is a service dog dealing with the public everyday, I don't want an aggressive dog anyway. We've seen this service dog come in before (yellow lab), and she seemed very old and docile. What I didn't know, and what her owner did, who has had her for 8 years, is that she is dog aggressive. We walked by to put some magazines away, and she lunged up barking, and tried to attack Ed. Luckily, her owner grabbed the leash in time (Ed's leash is attached to my waist). Poor Ed. He tried to run away, with his tail between his legs. He was confused and scared. A couple of weeks ago, the owner came up to the register where we were at, and asked if he could bring her by to get her over this. I can't control who walks by the register, and I thought he wanted her to get over this "new" problem by smelling the other dog, but not seeing him. We had a long line, and all the registers were busy. He got at the end of the line, met my eyes, and said "I'll wait here". Unless you are going to cut in line, I don't know where else you'd wait, I thought. Next thing I know, he is behind the counter, with his dog going nuts (barking and lunging) at us, only 2 feet away. Ed got up tail wagging, but soon realized that the dog didn't want to play, and Ed barked back to defend me. The idiot owner was just standing there saying "Look at her! She doesn't normally do this! I wonder why...." ?!!!!!? If his dog would have gotten lose, I would be in the hospital, as well as anyone who tried to help me. Ed would have been hurt, and his dog would be dead. The owner thought it was funny. My manager, who was at the next register did nothing to protect us, yelled at me, but has since been talked to by the general manager. The owner knew his dog was dog aggressive, and was extremely irresponsible about it. Can you imagine that scenario out on the trail, with his dog off lead?!? Hospital? Where?

Instead, it set us back months in training. It was such a shock that Ed is always on alert for danger. When the security people knock on the office door at work, he jumps up and barks to defend his office. When someone walks by on the sidewalk, he runs to the window and barks to defend his home. Getting him over this is going to take me months. If that guy comes in again, I'll beat him over the head with the first chair I find. Jerk.

We have many service dogs that come in there, and we've never had a problem with them. Luckily, that hasn't changed. Ed has seen other service dogs in the store since then, and he still ignores them.

My sister has professionally trained dogs for 20+ years, and I have met many handlers and dogs. If I see a dog running loose, yes, I'm worried. As soon as I see the owner say the command, and the dog is back at their side, I'm fine. I expect to see loose kuntry-dawgs on the trail, which is why we carry bear spray and hiking sticks.

Ridge
07-05-2006, 13:25
Let me know what the reaction of the unleashed dog's owner is when you spray the dog with "Bear Spray". Better be ready to use it on the owner and hope he's not toting a gun.

Jack Tarlin
07-05-2006, 13:25
Let's see.....barking, lunging, inability to deal with other dogs, creating noisy and frightening scenes where other dogs and other people are present.

Leave anything else out we should know in advance?

I know this is not what you want to hear, but on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being perfect and 10 being a menace, a dog like the one you just described rates around a 99 when it comes to suitability on the Trail.

I also note that your immediate response to your dog's problems is to blame other people and even threaten them with violence. This is typical behavior for most Trail-dog owners, by the way. If a problem exists, it's NEVER the dog or owner that's at fault......it's much easier to blame (or threaten) others.

Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure YOU are ready for the Trail either.

At the very least, be aware that dogs that lunge at other animals or worse, at people, or dogs that bark, are uncontrollable, etc. are decidedly unwelcome on the A.T. or any other Trail.

I sincerely wish you well with your dog's training, and I applaud the fact that you realize the importance of the dog's receiving that training before hitting the Trail.

That being said, you both have a long ways to go.

the_iceman
07-05-2006, 14:06
I lost my dog a year ago yesterday. An Irish Terrier, big enough to do the trip but small enough to share a tent with. I thought about thru-hiking with him and I did a lot of research. Here was what I concluded. I am sure that someone will argue every point. In the end, you need to put other hiker's comfort and the safety and the comfort of your dog before your need or desire for companionship on the trail.

The hike is usually much harder on dogs than people. You put on boots, but their feet and pads start to wear down.

MOST other hikers do not like to share shelters with dogs. Some are too polite to mention this to dog owners. I really like dogs but have not liked sharing a shelter with dogs in the past.

Dogs not on a leash get into trouble. If they encounter a bear and start trouble they have been known to run back to their owners with an angry bear close behind.

Dogs on a leash could get you or themselves hurt.

Who is the judge of well behaved?

I have seen a dog snag another hiker’s dinner. It was a tense moment. Fortunately the owner had enough extra food to make good on the loss but not without hard feelings.

In the end I had decided not to take my dog.

roxy33x
07-05-2006, 14:20
When taking a dog on a thru-hike, you have to consider what is best for your dog long term. If the trail is difficult and rough, it will be for your dog as well... that means the possiblilty of hypothermia, heat stoke(very likely), broken bones, bloody paws, ect. If you go the whole way, just as it will wear down your body, it will wear down your dogs. A big factor in this is the breed, so I would do some research. If they are hurt, they cant tell you whats wrong... its very dangerous. And dont forget the pains of shuttling them through the Smokies, the relative Urban areas of New England and hunting season...(my friend's dog got shot on the AT during a thru hike, and sometimes, ******** dont do it on accident) But, if you feel they can tough it out, it is an amazing bonding experience...

corentin
07-05-2006, 17:04
One other thing about hiking with a dog..it will draw every stray and unleashed dog within a mile radius straight to you. I walk a three mile route with my dog around my neighborhood every day and usually encounter at least 2 to 3 unleashed dogs who try to get into it with mine. I swear the next dog that comes up to us is going to get kicked in the head. I take back any positive thing I ever said about hiking with dogs.

Ridge
07-05-2006, 17:55
............ I take back any positive thing I ever said about hiking with dogs.


WELCOME to My Planet ....LIVE LONG AND PROSPER

dreamhiker
07-05-2006, 18:27
I was just hiking around the Green Leaf hut this weekend and there where three dogs at the hut with there owners the dogs where well behaved while there owners where around but at some point the two owners went into the hut at the same time and the dogs started to fight right in front of the door to the hut where some of us where sitting we ended up in the middle of a dog fight. The two owners ran out and broke up the fight. It ended with no one getting hurt but it could have gone very badly. latter I notice that one of the dogs hiking down the falling waters trail from the ridge, it is a step trail and it looked to be extremely hard on the dog the dog laid down at one point and didn't want to get back up. I love dogs but would never take my dog on a hike with me. the dog fight was over a bowl of water.
DreamHiker

Ridge
07-05-2006, 18:39
...... the dog fight was over a bowl of water...

That was my water.....LOL

Catsgoing
07-05-2006, 18:39
It is hard hiking with a dog. I hiked and camped with my two dogs Gerty is a Beagle/Australian mix. And Sophie is a Miniature Australian Sheppard.

1. The Ticks Attacked Them By The Hundreds. And I had special Tick Flea Guard on them from Revolution.

2. Then the Ticks got on me from them it was horrible.

3. When I was tired and wanted to rest it seemed they got an extra burst of energy. It was hard. I wanted to rest.

4. And keeping them on a leash was hard. I bought the kind that the strap goes around your waist and hooks to there leash.

I will camp with them but I will never hike.

My Beagle mix was always in Beagle mode sniffing everything and then wanting to go to the scent she picked up.

It would be great if we could let them loose my dogs come when I call them but then I have to stop and wait on them.

I felt safe with them at night. We came across two Bears and they didn't bark thank GOD......

Anyhow I won't hike with them again just to hard on this old lady.:confused:

dreamhiker
07-05-2006, 18:44
some other things to think about if your going to hike with a pet.
1. can you pack your pet out if they get hurt and cant walk it could be up to several miles to a vet. ( it will be your responsibility to do this)
2. Dogs always want to make there owners happy and may hike on with serious injury can you tell if this is going on.
3. do you have the ability to put your pet down if it comes to it do to a very serious injury (this will also be your responsibility)
4. do you have a good insurance policy in case your pet injures a hiker (the fault will always end up on the dog even if its due to the stupidity of the other hiker)
If you can't do even one of these things, for the sake of the dog you should not take them hiking even day hiking.

Rain Man
07-05-2006, 23:24
Actually, many dogs are trained on reliable, complete voice control - and I do mean complete. Can you image police or search dogs without voice control? Unless you are in the business, you don't normally see them. When they aren't working, they are at seminars, training, etc. Most of the working dogs I know train on private property in groups. The dogs we see out on the trail and in dog parks do not have professional dog trainer owners, and therefore do not have professionally trained dogs. ...

Then why the hell are you even mentioning dogs that we'll never see on the trail, since the topic is dogs on the trail? Having trouble connecting the dots, are you? This kinda logic reminds me of too many dog owners. Can't follow a train of thought. Please stick to the topic and don't use totally irrelevant examples, then blame others for being "ignorant."

Rain:sunMan

.

Ramble~On
07-06-2006, 03:20
This question has already been asked and there are already several similar threads...as the original post is directed at the Class of 2007 I will keep my mouth shut for once.

frieden
07-10-2006, 22:56
Let's see.....barking, lunging, inability to deal with other dogs, creating noisy and frightening scenes where other dogs and other people are present.

Leave anything else out we should know in advance?

I know this is not what you want to hear, but on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being perfect and 10 being a menace, a dog like the one you just described rates around a 99 when it comes to suitability on the Trail.

I also note that your immediate response to your dog's problems is to blame other people and even threaten them with violence. This is typical behavior for most Trail-dog owners, by the way. If a problem exists, it's NEVER the dog or owner that's at fault......it's much easier to blame (or threaten) others.

Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure YOU are ready for the Trail either.

At the very least, be aware that dogs that lunge at other animals or worse, at people, or dogs that bark, are uncontrollable, etc. are decidedly unwelcome on the A.T. or any other Trail.

I sincerely wish you well with your dog's training, and I applaud the fact that you realize the importance of the dog's receiving that training before hitting the Trail.

That being said, you both have a long ways to go.

Jack, who are you talking about?

frieden
07-10-2006, 23:07
Let's see.....barking, lunging, inability to deal with other dogs, creating noisy and frightening scenes where other dogs and other people are present.

Leave anything else out we should know in advance?

I know this is not what you want to hear, but on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being perfect and 10 being a menace, a dog like the one you just described rates around a 99 when it comes to suitability on the Trail.

I also note that your immediate response to your dog's problems is to blame other people and even threaten them with violence. This is typical behavior for most Trail-dog owners, by the way. If a problem exists, it's NEVER the dog or owner that's at fault......it's much easier to blame (or threaten) others.

Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure YOU are ready for the Trail either.

At the very least, be aware that dogs that lunge at other animals or worse, at people, or dogs that bark, are uncontrollable, etc. are decidedly unwelcome on the A.T. or any other Trail.

I sincerely wish you well with your dog's training, and I applaud the fact that you realize the importance of the dog's receiving that training before hitting the Trail.

That being said, you both have a long ways to go.

Jack, the "barking, lunging, inability to deal with other dogs, creating noisy and frightening scenes where other dogs and other people are present" was what the OTHER service dog was doing!!! Geez. I seriously doubt I will be hiking with someone else's dog! Ed works with the public EVERY DAY.

Uncle Silly
07-17-2006, 03:01
Let me know what the reaction of the unleashed dog's owner is when you spray the dog with "Bear Spray". Better be ready to use it on the owner and hope he's not toting a gun.


Comments like that make me wish I carried a gun.

But don't worry. If you ever approach my dog with "Bear Spray", for any reason, I won't need one. The first rock or branch I lay my hand on will split your skull well enough.

Uncle Silly
07-17-2006, 03:36
... We didn't run into many, if any, who didn't like our dog being on the trail.



I hear such self-serving, self-laudatory general proclamations from dog owners all the time and they strike me as incredibly lame.


That's because none of you trail-dog-haters have the guts to tell us trail-dog-owners that you can't stand our dogs. Step out from behind the screen and open your mouth when you see me on the trail. If I'd gotten any complaints about my dog while on the trail, I'd be man enough to tell you here. It didn't happen.





Did you have some independent research group do anonymous polls after you passed through? How do you know what goes on in anyone's mind? You a mind-reader?


It sounds like the anal probe didn't get removed on this one. How are we to know you don't like our dogs if you don't f---ing tell us?





Do you really expect us to believe hikers are going to say to your face "I don't like your dog" or "I don't like something your dog did"?!


YES, g-d-mm-t. I got compliments when my dog was observed to have noticed, and left alone, some food that a hiker had left out on his bedroll. I got reports when she poked her nose into something she shouldn't have. My dog was INVITED BACK to Rusty's, by Rusty, and he doesn't like dogs.

Hikers form a community out on the trail, and the dogs are part of the community -- so if there's a problem, the community will let the responsible party (read: dog owner) know about it. It's a lot like raising kids in a town of 200 people. Everyone knows they're your kids, tells you when they're troublesome, and helps you look after them.

My dog hangs out in shelters, chases deer, chases rabbits, sometimes stays on the leash and sometimes is allowed to run as she pleases. Her food stays on the ground overnight and keeps the shelter mice out of your pack. Most people seem very pleased to have her around (moreso than they are about me). If you have a problem with my dog staying in the shelter, say so. I'll definitely move if you're there first, and I'm very likely to pitch my tarp if you ask politely (no matter when you got there). But if you're an a--h-l- about it, and I was there first, you better shut your mouth or go pitch your d--m-d tent. As impolite as I might seem pointing this out, the shelters are for all hikers on a first-come-first-served basis. Even me with my dog.

When they make dogs-in-the-shelter a fineable offense, THEN you can b-t-h at me.

Ridge
07-17-2006, 04:13
........My dog hangs out in shelters, chases deer, chases rabbits, sometimes stays on the leash and sometimes is allowed to run as she pleases.......


You could be the official poster child for the typical dog-hiker, because about 9 out 10 I've met on any trail has your attitude, I do question just how much time your dog stays on the leash, and nothing was said about her barking.

SGT Rock
07-17-2006, 08:33
Comments like that make me wish I carried a gun.

But don't worry. If you ever approach my dog with "Bear Spray", for any reason, I won't need one. The first rock or branch I lay my hand on will split your skull well enough.

Calm down there, threats of violence against other people on this forum is one of the no-nos.

Getting close there.

Uncle Silly
07-17-2006, 14:34
You could be the official poster child for the typical dog-hiker, because about 9 out 10 I've met on any trail has your attitude, I do question just how much time your dog stays on the leash, and nothing was said about her barking.

My dog? Bark? Hahahahahaha... My dog barks so rarely that I'm not always sure what she sounds like. She is likely to bark at you if you hike up to our campsite (or shelter) at night, but that's really about it. We're talking about newcomers, not folks who are just coming back from the privy.

If you ever meet us on the trail you'll probably have to hike with us for a week or three before you hear her voice.




Calm down there, threats of violence against other people on this forum is one of the no-nos.

You're right, Rock, that was pretty close to out-of-line. But IMHO so is threatening a generic hiker dog with Bear Spray. I'll admit, a problem dog might need it -- but the assumption that all hiker dogs are problem dogs is NOT one I'm willing to let slide. I'm not trying to threaten Ridge (or anyone else here); merely stating that I will defend my dog with extreme prejudice.

Ridge
07-17-2006, 14:52
My comment about the pepper spray was a reply to post 62. I against using spray.

Uncle Silly
07-17-2006, 16:39
My comment about the pepper spray was a reply to post 62. I against using spray.

Thank you for clarifying. I knew you were just warning someone else, but your post seemed to condone the pepper spray and set me off. Sorry I went off half-cocked....

frieden
07-17-2006, 20:29
I've had a bad experience with a large group of drunk town idiots on the trail. Should we ban all groups larger than 3 people? Why not? Large groups can be dangerous to a single hiker, especially a female. They also scare away the wildlife, destroy my hiking experience, impact water sources, pooh and pee everywhere, and trample vegetation. Aren't those some of the complaints from the trail-dog-haters? Is it fair to punish Brownie Troop #429, because some town boys wanted to get rowdy, without getting arrested?

Men are top of the list for violent crimes. Any one of them could hurt someone at any time. There are thousands of cases per year of men committing violent crimes. We need to ban them from the trail, before someone really gets hurt - again (men have already hurt hikers, so they are a proven threat)!

Homeless people need to be banned. Civilized society is scared of homeless people. They are banned everywhere else, so they must be dangerous!

Wildlife can be dangerous to people, and as it has been stated on this site, the trail was built for people. All wildlife must be banned from the trail.

Kids trample and destroy everything. They are loud and rude. All kids should be banned from the trail.

Moss is extremely dangerous to a hiker, especially on a rock on the trail. It could make the hiker slip, and cause an injury that would cancel their entire hiking career! Therefore, all moss has to be kept from the trail. The same goes for gravel, steep grades, sharp rocks, and weather.

Christians must be banned from the trail. They have a long-standing, bloody history. They have shown that they will destroy any who do not share their beliefs. Free-thinking hikers are in grave danger from these people. OMG, what about Brownie Troop #429?!?

.....there's a hole in the trail! I MIGHT twist my ankle! Aaahhh!
....there's a man! He MIGHT attack me! Aaahhh!
....there's an animal that MIGHT be rabid! Aaahhh!
....there's a dog! He MIGHT bite me! Aaahhh!
....there's a Girl Scout! She MIGHT try to sell me cookies! Aaahhh!

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the trail is a very dangerous place. You must fear and hate everything out there, but you and your friends. You must distort the truth, so that these others can be banned. We must protect the hikers....even if it is from themselves! HYOH is just a saying to make us look good! Persecute! Let's make the trail safe!!!

Ridge
07-17-2006, 21:53
I've had a bad experience with a large group of drunk town idiots on the trail. Should we ban all groups larger than 3 people? Why not? Large groups can be dangerous to a single hiker, especially a female. They also scare away the wildlife, destroy my hiking experience, impact water sources, pooh and pee everywhere, and trample vegetation. Aren't those some of the complaints from the trail-dog-haters? Is it fair to punish Brownie Troop #429, because some town boys wanted to get rowdy, without getting arrested?

Men are top of the list for violent crimes. Any one of them could hurt someone at any time. There are thousands of cases per year of men committing violent crimes. We need to ban them from the trail, before someone really gets hurt - again (men have already hurt hikers, so they are a proven threat)!

Homeless people need to be banned. Civilized society is scared of homeless people. They are banned everywhere else, so they must be dangerous!

Wildlife can be dangerous to people, and as it has been stated on this site, the trail was built for people. All wildlife must be banned from the trail.

Kids trample and destroy everything. They are loud and rude. All kids should be banned from the trail.

Moss is extremely dangerous to a hiker, especially on a rock on the trail. It could make the hiker slip, and cause an injury that would cancel their entire hiking career! Therefore, all moss has to be kept from the trail. The same goes for gravel, steep grades, sharp rocks, and weather.

Christians must be banned from the trail. They have a long-standing, bloody history. They have shown that they will destroy any who do not share their beliefs. Free-thinking hikers are in grave danger from these people. OMG, what about Brownie Troop #429?!?

.....there's a hole in the trail! I MIGHT twist my ankle! Aaahhh!
....there's a man! He MIGHT attack me! Aaahhh!
....there's an animal that MIGHT be rabid! Aaahhh!
....there's a dog! He MIGHT bite me! Aaahhh!
....there's a Girl Scout! She MIGHT try to sell me cookies! Aaahhh!

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the trail is a very dangerous place. You must fear and hate everything out there, but you and your friends. You must distort the truth, so that these others can be banned. We must protect the hikers....even if it is from themselves! HYOH is just a saying to make us look good! Persecute! Let's make the trail safe!!!



With all this going on, you diffidently don't need the additional hassle of a dog.

Skidsteer
07-17-2006, 22:01
With all this going on, you diffidently don't need the additional hassle of a dog.

After reading Frieden's post I wouldn't characterize her as diffident. Definitely not. :D

frieden
07-17-2006, 22:04
With all this going on, you diffidently don't need the additional hassle of a dog.

Hahaha!

I hope you felt like this was directed at you, Ridge.....'cause.....it was! Man, I'm sure you're a decent guy, but you gotta learn to lighten up!

frieden
07-17-2006, 22:05
After reading Frieden's post I wouldn't characterize her as diffident. Definitely not. :D

HAHAHAHA! (rolling off chair) I'm a good driver, too! HAHAHAHA! :D

Alligator
07-17-2006, 22:07
Nope, I don't see the diffidence either.

Ridge
07-17-2006, 22:18
After reading Frieden's post I wouldn't characterize her as diffident. Definitely not. :D


arguably might have been a better word than diffidently.

ed bell
07-17-2006, 22:32
"Arguably" is definitely a word, but Ridge arguably thought "diffidently" was definitely a word as well.

HapKiDo
07-17-2006, 22:37
Here's my take, ladies and gents: If you thru hike with an animal, you must be attuned to the needs of the animal. (close friend, spouse, dog, cat, snake, box turtle)

Dogs in the wild do not hike 2174.something miles in 4 to 6 months.

Dogs in the wild do a lot of sleeping.

Dogs on the Trail do a lot of walking.

Long Trails tend to wear out a dog and may be a cause of an earlier death. No, I have no statistics and don't think anyone has even done a study. I've just read, listened, and read more.

Dogs on the Trail can get overheated.
Dogs on the Trail can get dehydrated.
Dogs on the Trail can cut their pads and be unable to walk.
Dogs on the Trail can get bitten by a poisonous snake.
Dogs on the Trail may need to see a Veterinarian in an emergency situation, this can be an expensive trip as both Vet bills and motel bills mount.
Dogs on the Trail can run after a rabbit and disappear over the next mountain leaving you with a decision of whether to light out after him, stay put till he comes back, keep on hiking and "hope" he somehow finds you.
Dogs on the Trail can challenge a bear and make you the object of a bear's wrath (especially a Mama Bear with Cubs).

After this year's Trail Days, two dogs were conveniently left by hikers. One was a male border collie -- beautiful dog. One was a pit-bull mix in heat.

Who is willing to step forward and admit to leaving their dogs in Damascus?

One of the things that happens to some Trail dogs is they get out of range of their owners and show up somewhere else as a nuisance and get picked up or put down or get picked up and put down.

Boarding a Trail Dog so you can hike thru the Smokies and into Baxter St Park is fairly expensive, I've been told. That expense has to be taken into account.

Flying back home from Maine or Georgia with a Trail Dog is not going to be inexpensive, either. Renting a car to drive home can cost an extra $300 or more 'non-refundable' pet deposit.

Some dogs do fine on long trail hikes, but some dogs don't. You have to accept the responsibility of noticing if your dog is not doing fine even if you are. You may have to cut a Thru Hike into a Section Hike because you have to put the animal first. You don't Hike Your Own Hike when you hike with a dog (or other animal). You Hike Your Dog's Hike.

I have a dog and I love her. She'll hike two days with me and then she lays down and refuses to move. I am unable to carry a 40 pound dog who's a lump of dead weight as well as my backpack. After a good day of resting, she'll hike another day, maybe two. Eventually she's refusing to hike two days in a row and willing to hike only one day. So, she stays at a boarding facility near Neel Gap (GA) when I Thru Hike next year. I don't have the time to Thru Hike with her if I can only hike one day out every three.

I would like to see someone write a book about Thru Hiking dogs and their physical condition before, during and after their hike.

If you need a boarding facility near Neel Gap, GA, for a Thru Hike let me know and I'll give you the phone number.

HapKiDo

Skidsteer
07-17-2006, 22:44
"Arguably" is definitely a word, but Ridge arguably thought "diffidently" was definitely a word as well.

Indubitably.

Ridge
07-17-2006, 22:49
"Arguably" is definitely a word, but Ridge arguably thought "diffidently" was definitely a word as well.


"diffidently" is definitely a word,

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/diffidently

Grandma Dixie
07-17-2006, 23:24
Personally, I dont mind dogs on trails. But that is just my opinion; and with over 8,000 people on the site, I am a very small percentage. Some people Dont like it. If I were you, I would leave the dog at home if at all possible, it will save you much trouble and hikers will be happy with you (assuming you arent an idiot!. But, if you absolutely must bring the dog, keep it on a leash at least at the shelters, even if it is under "voice control". It will keep the the animal hating jackasses from getting cranky :p

ed bell
07-17-2006, 23:32
"diffidently" is definitely a word,

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/diffidently
.....and?.....Nevermind.;)

Uncle Silly
07-18-2006, 03:20
Frieden's got the right idea. Any criticism I've ever seen of trail dogs (or trail dog owners) can be redirected at any group, person, or thing you could want to direct criticism at to keep them off the trail. (OK, so frat boys don't bark so often, but dogs don't fill SuperSoakers with white gas at Partnership either...)

Life is risky. The Trail is risky. Take the risk and hike, or stay home. It's up to you. Me, I'll take the risk, and when I do I'll probably bring two things: a stringed instrument and a dog. Life's too short to leave them at home.

frieden
07-18-2006, 08:15
(OK, so frat boys don't bark so often, but dogs don't fill SuperSoakers with white gas at Partnership either...)

SuperSoakers with white gas?!? What happened?

frieden
07-18-2006, 08:53
HapKiDo is right on a lot of points. When you hike with someone else (dog, kid(s), friends, etc), you're hike is not completely your own. You have to consider the other's needs all the time, as well as your own. However, I'm assuming that is why you are out there, so you can share the experience with your dog/kid/friend. Anyone can get injured out there. If you are going to be annoyed at your dog/kid/friend for getting injured, and messing up YOUR hike, then you have no business being out there with a dog/kid/friend. How would they feel, if YOU got injured? You'd be messing up their hike! If this is YOUR hike, and you are just dragging someone else along, why don't you leave them home, and hook up with someone on the trail? That way, if they get injured and have to leave the trail, you won't have guilt about staying on.

I've heard people say that we should feel sorry for the dogs brought out on the trail, because it is not their choice - that the dog just likes being with the owner. That may be true for some dogs, but there are other dogs that are true trail dogs. Ed is one of those. How do I know this? Ed is with me 24/7. So far this year, I've left him for a combined total of one day (we had a wrestling match about his nails getting too long, and I lost until Benadryl came to the rescue; our dremel was stolen). He hates when we go to the register at work. It's boring, and he has to lay there for hours. His ears droop, and he gets those "puppy dog eyes". Ed most certainly wears his moods right out there on his chest. There is no question about what he's feeling, and when. He LOVES the trail. He'll start dragging and panting, but one 15 min. rest stop, and it's like he's starting fresh.

Either one of us could get injured out there, and cancel the hike. What if we don't finish? So what? I have always dreamed of thru hiking the AT, since I was a little girl. What I didn't understand then, when I created this dream, was that there are thousands of little miracles happening around us RIGHT NOW! Focusing on only one thing is an excellent way to reach a goal. You just need to understand that some things suffer on the way, and you will lose other things that you will never regain. It's up to the individual to work out which is more important to them. I want to value each day, and what is within that day. Ed has more of a chance to finish the trail, than I do. If we only make it 65 days, then I will be grateful for those days, and cherish the memory. Who knows, we might be given a second chance.

These threads are started for people who see their dog as their hiking partner, not just another piece of gear to bring along. They want to learn as much as they can to increase their chances of success. It is the very same reason that people start gear, shelter, money, etc. threads. Everyone is trying to soak up as much information as possible, in order to reach the big K.

Ridge
07-18-2006, 10:19
Like I said, dogs are brought for all the selfish reasons involving their owners. If you really want to give your dog a fun time, take him to the local landfill, dogs love that.

Uncle Silly
07-18-2006, 12:53
(OK, so frat boys don't bark so often, but dogs don't fill SuperSoakers with white gas at Partnership either...)

SuperSoakers with white gas?!? What happened?

A lot of fire, some pretty pictures, some scorched pine needles, and a couple of jackasses wasted an entire gallon of white gas that a trail angel had dropped off earlier that day (intended for hikers.... to use in their stoves, not in SuperSoakers and campfires).

Fortunately no permanent damage was done, no forest fires were set, and the pictures were pretty. But the waste of donated resources still gets my goat.

Uncle Silly
07-18-2006, 13:03
Like I said, dogs are brought for all the selfish reasons involving their owners. If you really want to give your dog a fun time, take him to the local landfill, dogs love that.


Dude, you're so full of hot air. You, and everything you carry with you, are on the trail (assuming you actually ever leave your keyboard) entirely because of your selfish reasons for wanting to hit the trail. Whatever else they might be, they're selfish. You can't stop being selfish any more than you can stop me from being selfish (say, by taking my dog on the trail).

This isn't a debate, it's a flamefest. I got better things to do.

Nokia
07-18-2006, 13:33
A lot of fire, some pretty pictures, some scorched pine needles, and a couple of jackasses wasted an entire gallon of white gas that a trail angel had dropped off earlier that day (intended for hikers.... to use in their stoves, not in SuperSoakers and campfires).

Fortunately no permanent damage was done, no forest fires were set, and the pictures were pretty. But the waste of donated resources still gets my goat.

I do believe there was some retribution later on for this incident! ;)

blackbishop351
07-18-2006, 14:05
I've been reading the dog posts for a while, but I haven't chimed in. I guess it's time.

My wife and I don't have kids. We have three dogs, a cat, and we had a ferret that we recently had to put to sleep. Our pets ARE our kids. I know I'm not the only one here who feels that way.

I'm extremely protective of my dogs (they're my kids, remember?). I'd never put them in a situation they couldn't handle. That applies to their physical conditioning AND their behavior. And in my opinion, they can't handle the trail for more than a day hike. So I don't take them when I go packing.

That being said, I love encountering dogs on the trail. I love dogs, I love being around dogs, and I generally like "dog people". Honestly, I get along better with animals most of the time than humans. If someone's got a well-behaved dog, by all means take him/her hiking. I'd love to run into you while I'm out there! I'd love to take one of mine with me, but I can't seem to find the time to train them well enough.

I see a lot of irrational dog fears being posted on these threads. I don't know if some of you have been attacked by dogs, or if you just don't like them. I'll never understand how a friendly dog wanting top be petted could be viewed as a nuisance, but that's just me. However, rejecting dogs just on principle is kind of an [email protected]#$ole way to be. If you've been attacked or something, I can understand that, but it's probably a fear you need to work on moving past. For your own sanity if for no other reason.

For those dog-haters on here. Do any of you have kids? If you do, try to imagine this:

You're out hiking with your son/daughter. You pull into camp at night and find a few people already there. While youre setting up your tent, your kid wanders over to another hiker and starts asking cute, innocent little questions (as kids often do). The other hiker starts YELLING at your kid, then BEATS your kid with a trekking pole and then empties a can of MACE in his/her face.

What would you do????

If I ever do get my dogs to the point that I'm satisfied they can hike, I really hope I never run into some of you people on the trail. If someone ever did something like this to my dog, puppy and I would be eating roasted thru-hiker for dinner. End of story.

As always, just my .02.

Alligator
07-18-2006, 14:22
Don't worry, you won't run into Ridge, he's a cyber hiker.

SGT Rock
07-18-2006, 14:43
Take a breath y'all.

Some of you may want to consider exactly what you are saying. Some have advocated assault with a deadly weapon, murder, and cannibalism for spraying a protective spray against a dog.

First, if you are as good a dog owner as you say you are, this won't happen to you. If you think it could, the re-evaluate how you hike with your dog or you are a part of the problem.

Second, a spray, while unpleasant, wears off. Splitting a skull with a rock or branch, or shooting someone, or cooking and eating them for doing this is a little more permanent and would be something that would end you up on death row. Saying thing like this in response to a spray only re-enforces the point people are making about how dog hikers act when someone doesn't like their dog. One of my dog got sprayed once by an electrical line worker, I got pissed but then I thought of what the poor SOB must deal with on a daily basis with dogs and I got over it quickly. So did my dog. No court or other hiker will stand for you beating someone with a deadly weapon because your dog got something it his eyes. If you think this sort of violence is proportional, you are a part of the problem.

Third, postings like this never make your case, they only make the case of the people saying you are screwing up the trail. If you want to make your case, then help get the bad dogs off the trail. You must realize (if you read all the posts) the people you characterize as dog haters are not dog haters. They only hate seeing dogs on the trail. any of them (if you read the posts) are dog owners and dog lovers. And if this is true, how did they get that way? The answer may be hiking dog owners are their own worst enemy. If this is how you are acting, you are a part of the problem.

MOWGLI
07-18-2006, 14:59
Sarge, why don't you just make Hiking With Dogs a subscription forum. Same thing with Guns on the Trail. That way the rest of us don't have to read this BS.

blackbishop351
07-18-2006, 15:04
Sorry about that, Sarge. Point taken. That last part of my post was meant in a joking sense, but I probably should've followed it with a smiley or something. I'm not a violent person, but I can be prone to getting overly aggravated by some things. Won't happen again.

SGT Rock
07-18-2006, 15:07
You know, that might not be a bad thing. A dog forum just like the Other Trails Forum where you have to be a member to talk. And some forum rules about posting there.

Guns, well we could do something similar, but honestly I point most of the gun folks to my site. We have lots of gun enthusiasts and people that take to the North Country where they claim you need a gun for bears and lions and such. If someone want to talk intelligently about guns, that would be a good place.

Any others have an opinion on this?

And if we do it. I think the stated purpose should be to get bad dog hikers to stop or reform, and good dog hikers (the few that are out there) to pass on what makes them good. Folks that detract from that would loose their membership to the forum.

Two Speed
07-18-2006, 15:11
You know, that might not be a bad thing. A dog forum just like the Other Trails Forum where you have to be a member to talk. . . Folks that detract from that would loose their membership to the forum.Best idea I've seen so far.

MOWGLI
07-18-2006, 15:15
And if we do it. I think the stated purpose should be to get bad dog hikers to stop or reform, and good dog hikers (the few that are out there) to pass on what makes them good. Folks that detract from that would loose their membership to the forum.

Sounds reasonable, but if somebody lost their privledges to the dog forum, does that give them license to come back and pollute the other non-dog forums? The dog topic tends to bring out the zealots in droves.

SGT Rock
07-18-2006, 15:18
Well honestly I would like to see what ATTroll has to say. I could set that up from here though on a down day in the FOB. Right now it is too close to bedtime with a long patrol scheduled for tomorrow

And to add to that, I would like to put a moderator in charge who knows about dog training and handling on the trail, more than just an experienced armature. Someone like Frieden or Plydem.

MOWGLI
07-18-2006, 15:22
Well honestly I would like to see what ATTroll has to say. I could set that up from here though on a down day in the FOB. Right now it is too close to bedtime with a long patrol scheduled for tomorrow



Sounds good all around! Stay sharp for patrol. We want you back here safe & sound ASAP.

Two Speed
07-18-2006, 15:28
Sounds good all around! Stay sharp for patrol. We want you back here safe & sound ASAP.I'll second that.

As far as the separate forum I particularly like the idea of being able to post ideas about how to improve handling a dog on the trail, etiquette, etc, w/o the constant flamefests.

SGT Rock
07-18-2006, 15:34
Sounds reasonable, but if somebody lost their privledges to the dog forum, does that give them license to come back and pollute the other non-dog forums? The dog topic tends to bring out the zealots in droves.

Well I would start by moving the dog threads to the new forum. Some would not make it there since they are not directly related to dog hiking, but rather **** stirring.

Any like the Dog Hater thread could be left up but moved off topic or something like that because it seems people still like a good flame war no matter what you do. I think the level of attacks that can happen are off the scale at times.

Someone that wants to talk about dogs can go to the dog forum, but the threads that are current flame wars could be moved off to another place. There is a valid debate about dogs, and even non-dog hikers should be heard IMO because there are hikers that still blindly take their off leash, unconditioned, untrained dogs, to the woods and hurt them or others by those actions. While I am not a dog hiker, I was one and a dog owner and lover. I think I can still make a valid point about how others hike with their dogs - and I have been striving to be more clear on that message and trying not to sound like a "dog hater". If I can do it, so can others. The point is to stay polite and not become a cyber rage poster (for lack of a better term right now).

So saying that someone should not bring a dog wouldn't be taboo, but dragging a thread into a flame war would be.

Am I making sense here?

Two Speed
07-18-2006, 15:40
Sounding better and better.

blackbishop351
07-18-2006, 15:43
Not that anyone cares, now that I'm the resident cannibal...:( but I think it's a great idea. I don't know if I'll ever be ready to try and hike with my dogs, but if I was, I'd want to know HONESTLY and CALMLY what behaviors, etc. bothered other hikers so I could be as considerate as possible.

Alligator
07-18-2006, 15:44
Close down all dog threads and start the forum fresh.

If someone is arguing that all dogs should be kept off the trail at all times, that poster isn't providing any help after their first sentence. There will be no constructive suggestions after that.

MOWGLI
07-18-2006, 15:53
If someone is arguing that all dogs should be kept off the trail at all times, that poster isn't providing any help after their first sentence. There will be no constructive suggestions after that.

You just neutered Ridge. :eek:

Alligator
07-18-2006, 15:59
You just neutered Ridge. :eek:Credit goes to the subscription forum idea.

BonzNRio
07-18-2006, 16:14
Rain... It's your hike. If you feel you can hike with your dog then do it. I do with mine & it's cool.He/she is a continual resposibility on the trail & in town.It's a fact & personally well worth it. Good luck to both of you.

Big Dawg
07-18-2006, 16:44
Not that anyone cares, now that I'm the resident cannibal...:(



Naw your not..... You're relatively new to the forum & were just giving your .02 in your first post to this thread. Bravo! Sure would be a boring world if we were all the same.

When I take my dogs out I give em the leadership they need, the freedom to mingle (upon approval) w/ dog-lover people, & keep em away from people that I feel are not fond of dogs (totally respect), & from people that seem to have an irrational vengence against all dogs they encounter (you can tell).

I've never had a problem. :)

StarLyte
07-18-2006, 16:45
Rain... It's your hike. If you feel you can hike with your dog then do it. I do with mine & it's cool.He/she is a continual resposibility on the trail & in town.It's a fact & personally well worth it. Good luck to both of you.

Rio is an exceptional dog. You did good with him Bonzo.

Marsha
see you soon I hope

Ridge
07-18-2006, 17:17
Just as soon as you disallow dog threads, some newby is gonna ask the question in the form of a thread, you'll have to delete or disallow it. Why not have just one thread, combine all the ones now and anybody starting a new one, move it to the common thread. If not that, I say shut all the existing dog polls and threads down and have'em go somewhere else. Either way sounds good to me.

MOWGLI
07-18-2006, 17:24
Just as soon as you disallow dog threads, some newby is gonna ask the question in the form of a thread,

No one is talking about disallowing dog threads. They would be put on a part of the site where folks who are interested in the topic can sign-up and participate in a discussion.

Rain Man
07-18-2006, 18:24
Any others have an opinion on this?.

No need to punish all of us over a few folks who have compulsions they can't or won't control to "show their butts," as my mama would say.

I've not sure I've read a single "dog hater" post a hate post, but there have been too many "dog lover" hate posts. Boot them from WB for a few days, till they get themselves under control. Then invite them back conditionally, on probation.

Hell, boot anyone who uses the term "dog hater" in my opinion. Folks who use that term obviously aren't joining the debate in good faith anyway and have no business being here and taking part. The proof is in eating the pudding, and their proof is that they like to threaten their fellow hikers without justification and distort the truth.

The truth is a large number of WBers voted to ban dogs entirely and I'm sure many of those who voted against banning them totally wish the poll had options for "Allow dogs, but with restrictions." So, plainly most WBers agree with the so-called "dog haters." I guess WB is just filled to the brim with "dog haters." The "dog lovers" are in a serious case of denial, all the while claiming "everybody loves me and my dog."

What did Jesus say? "Having eyes they see not and having ears they hear not"?

Rain:sunMan, a dog-lover.

.

FatMan
07-18-2006, 18:44
Yes, a subscription forum for Hiking with Dogs is a good thing. More often than not dog posts are started by members searching information on how to become good dog owners. And inevitably within a post or two these become derailed by those who feel dogs have no place on the trail.

ed bell
07-18-2006, 19:03
No need to punish all of us over a few folks who have compulsions they can't or won't control to "show their butts," as my mama would say.Punish? I thought the idea was to consolidate all the dog threads to one area that is accessable only to those willing to sign up for that topic. This already applies to the thick-skinned forum and non-AT subjects. Hell the crazy dog threads ought to be moved to the thick-skinned area anyway. When the two sides take up the fight its like oil and water. This usually is followed by the combatants jumping between the 3-4 current dog related threads to battle it out. Too bad any voices of reason get steamrolled by the dog thread spammers from both sides of the issue. Sounds like a good idea getting started here.:-?

Skidsteer
07-18-2006, 19:04
Any others have an opinion on this?

Yes, make it a subscribed forum. Who knows? We may actually get a thread with enough common sense contributed from both sides to make into an article that most everybody agrees on.

Or not. :D

FatMan
07-18-2006, 19:13
...The truth is a large number of WBers voted to ban dogs entirely and I'm sure many of those who voted against banning them totally wish the poll had options for "Allow dogs, but with restrictions." So, plainly most WBers agree with the so-called "dog haters." I guess WB is just filled to the brim with "dog haters." The "dog lovers" are in a serious case of denial, all the while claiming "everybody loves me and my dog."...Rain Man, I had no idea you had a gift for reading minds. You know what?, I have the same gift and you got it all wrong. I'm sure that many who voted to ban dogs entirely wish they had options for "Allow dogs, but with restrictions." Being it was not an option it forced them to vote to ban dogs entirely. So, plainly most WBers agree withe so-called "dog lovers." Sound rediculous to you? You bet. Just as rediculous as your post sounds to me. I can't read the minds of other members and neither can you. I just shake my head at these kind of posts.

Considering about 1 in 20 (that is my estimate, not fact) on this forum actually hike with their dogs I find the results to be quite surprising in favor of dogs on the trail.

Ridge
07-18-2006, 19:24
From the looks of things the debate has turned into a debate about the debate.

ed bell
07-18-2006, 19:49
From the looks of things the debate has turned into a debate about the debate.I trust you can get things back on track.;)

Ridge
07-18-2006, 19:58
I trust you can get things back on track.;)


Is this bait to debate?

ed bell
07-18-2006, 20:37
Is this bait to debate?No, Sir, this is reality.:sun

frieden
07-18-2006, 21:31
I am all for any solution that provides for the opportunity for real help/suggestions/stories on sharing the outdoor experience with your dog. Hopefully, this would help to minimize the first time mistakes that give dog hikers a bad name, and keep everyone safer.

Alligator
07-18-2006, 21:34
...
I've not sure I've read a single "dog hater" post a hate post, but there have been too many "dog lover" hate posts. Boot them from WB for a few days, till they get themselves under control. Then invite them back conditionally, on probation.

...
Rain:sunMan, a dog-lover.

.Here you go Rain Man, you might have missed these.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=210163&highlight=dog#post210163

Since it's not the dogs fault, lets vote to euthanize the owner. Show of hands please..... OK, you can put your hands down now.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=70413&highlight=dog#post70413

Dogs are considered a delicacy in a some areas of the world. Could the fine quisine of dog (maybe alacart) ever make it to the trail? Could it be prepared on a homemade alcohol stove? Would you get lots of hungry hikers stopping by for dog-kabobs? Would there be leftovers? Will someone have a dehydrator if there are? Dog-jerky anyone?

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=69358&highlight=dog#post69358

There was a couple times I wish I had something to spray dog owners with, pepper spray, birdshot, or something to get there attention with.

frieden
07-18-2006, 21:39
Hmmmm.... one name keeps coming up in the dog hate posts, doesn't it?

Ridge
07-18-2006, 21:41
Most dog-hikers that ask for suggestions and info on dog hiking are usually receptive to replies, until someone says the dog should be on a LEASH. The dog being leashed should be the first step in hiking with a dog, the dog learning how to interact with the hiking world should come AFTER the LEASH.

Alligator
07-18-2006, 21:45
Most dog-hikers that ask for suggestions and info on dog hiking are usually receptive to replies, until someone says the dog should be on a LEASH. The dog being leashed should be the first step in hiking with a dog, the dog learning how to interact with the hiking world should come AFTER the LEASH.Ridge, you don't belong in this debate. You have an avowed interest to keeping all dogs off the trail at all times. Don't pretend that you can have a reasonable conversation even if people meet what you feel is the necessary first step. You have already demonstrated a distinct inability to have a rational discussion on this topic.

frieden
07-18-2006, 22:01
Most dog-hikers that ask for suggestions and info on dog hiking are usually receptive to replies, until someone says the dog should be on a LEASH. The dog being leashed should be the first step in hiking with a dog, the dog learning how to interact with the hiking world should come AFTER the LEASH.

I've been very clear in my posts that Ed ALWAYS hikes on a leash. People aren't upset with you about your comments on leashes. Your posts on dogs on the trail have been hateful, inconsiderate, and irrelevant. Giving your opinion, while keeping others feelings and rights in mind, would be greatly appreciated. There have been some "leave your dog at home" comments on these threads that have been very constructive, giving potential problems that a dog hiker might face.

From yours and other posts, we can see that there are some concerns with TRAIL DOGS (we can't do much here about stray, country, or hunting dogs) such as aggressive dogs, muddy dogs in shelters, dogs going after food, etc. Well, LNT practices didn't come into the mainstream overnight, and they didn't come into practice by all hikers being banned from the trails. A constructive, non-threatening forum could greatly reduce these problems you are so stressed about. Why would you try to sabatoge that?

Skidsteer
07-18-2006, 22:11
You have already demonstrated a distinct inability to have a rational discussion on this topic.

And the ability and will to take it off-line if anyone questions his credibility.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=218376#post218376

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=218932#post218932

Alligator
07-18-2006, 22:19
And the ability and will to take it off-line if anyone questions his credibility.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=218376#post218376

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=218932#post218932 You know, that's some serious talk. Take it from me, that could be construed as harassment.

Ramble~On
07-18-2006, 22:25
After four days of hiking it's always nice to go through email, mail....the web and WB...always nice to see that the dog threads are still a source of amusement.

On the trail the other day I was approached by an unleashed dog....which stopped in front of me, looked over its shoulder and back at me and began to growl....the entire time I continued doing what I was doing....Hiking...on a hiking trail....a woman soon came up behind the dog and said...."She's really friendly" she ( the woman and dog ) found out that I don't view unleashed dogs that growl at me for no reason other than I am walking on a hiking trail as "friendly". Yes, it was a good protective dog, doing what dogs do. Yes, it alerted the woman that there was "danger" ahead.....what about me?
Or anyone else who is simply walking down a trail....do they deserve to be growled at for doing what the trail was put there for....hiking. Should I have stopped what I was doing, hiking.....so that this woman could come up and grab her "friendly" dog from in front of me....Should any dog owner expect other trail users to show them the consideration of stopping in mid stride....so they may come up and collect their growling, unleashed dog ?
Then there are those people who do not want a dog, any dog to approach them....Do dogs understand "personal space" ? Some dogs might but yet there are those others that come right up to you and lick your hand, sniff you etc. How will the hiker know if the dog is friendly or not. What about the hikers that hate dogs or have fears of dogs or have smaller dogs with them that do not want to be approached by other dogs.

If hikers, male or female need that dog to be with them as a source of protection....because without the companionship the person would be too "affraid" to spend time in the woods alone....GOOD !!! Take your dog with you ! By all means...enjoy the trails and the outside...More power to you.
BUT....please keep in mind that not every bump in the night or person that hikes towards you and your dog is out to kill you or cause you harm...
In fact in 30 years of hiking my opinion is that hikers are a pretty easy going, nice people. Chances are that if you run into another person or group of people on a hiking trail they will be nice, polite, easy going people... Please keep that in mind if those people's first impression of you is being greeted by your growling dog.

I hike a lot. I do not care for confrontation. I do not search it out.
I am not a shy person. If we should ever meet on the trail and I am simply hiking by and so are you...you'll find me to be a pleasant, polite person and I do not mind to stop for quick conversation...
If you have a dog with you that is well behaved and doesn't immediately growl, bark or cause a scene at anyone who is simply walking on a hiking trail....we'll get along great. If it's a happy, friendly dog it generally indicates to me that it is well trained and used to being around people, therefore it doesn't view people as a threat...anyone who has spent any lenght of time on the AT has no doubt run into this type dog owner. Happy, peaceful people usually have happy, peaceful dogs.
I'm no expert on the subject but I'd be willing to bet that this type dog owner does not view their dog as a form of defense.

If your dog is unleashed and far enough away from you and barks, growls or acts aggressive towards me...as I am minding my own business, hiking... My initial opinion of you should be what ? Please think about this for a second.

Your answer to this question will indicate a great deal about you as a fellow hiker, fellow trail user. Dog or no dog we are all fellow trail users. Since we share the trail shouldn't we be considerate of each other ?
You have the right to hike with your dog...enjoy that right
I have a right to hike without fear of being attacked, snapped at or growled at by any dog...I enjoy my right to hike and you enjoy your right to hike...
We'll get along great.....if you have a dog on a trail it is your responsibilty.
As in the dog is your responsibilty. If you are responsible and your actions regarding the dog are responsible there should be no need for any of the type things you read in these threads....
I can only speak for myself when I say that I will give anyone hiking with a dog the same consideration they give me... I will never approach your dog and growl at it...I don't expect your dog to approach me and growl at me...
If your dog growls at hikers it indicates a lack of training on your part...in my opinion. If you have a dog that you know "even sometimes" acts aggressively towards people it would be very considerate of you to keep that dog on a leash.
I don't think that's much to ask for...

Does anyone that hikes with a dog feel that I am being unreasonable by asking people with aggressive dogs, or dogs that even sometimes growl at people to keep them leashed ?

I know that this thread and threads like it will never end...I know that there are plenty of people that hike with dogs that pay no attention to areas where dogs must, by law be leashed at all times, others will take their dogs into shelters and let them roam all over other hikers gear, beg for food at the picnic table, growl at people, ***** wherever, splash around in the spring, lie down in the water source. etc

I'm not asking anyone to not take their dog, I'm simply asking those that choose to hike with their dog(s) to be considerate and responsible. Perhaps when considerate dog hikers outnumber inconsiderate dog hikers these threads will decrease.

Ridge
07-18-2006, 23:06
http://www.denverpost.com/voices/ci_3915406


And hikers worry about bear attacks.

frieden
07-18-2006, 23:25
...do they deserve to be growled at for doing what the trail was put there for....hiking. Should I have stopped what I was doing, hiking.....so that this woman could come up and grab her "friendly" dog from in front of me....Should any dog owner expect other trail users to show them the consideration of stopping in mid stride....so they may come up and collect their growling, unleashed dog ?

All of us, including dog hikers, want behavior like this to stop. It is your responsibility to know your dog, and to compensate or train for his weaknesses. Look for books on dog psychology and behavior. The Dog Whisperer and The Monks of New Skete are excellent training sources.


]If your dog growls at hikers it indicates a lack of training on your part...in my opinion. If you have a dog that you know "even sometimes" acts aggressively towards people it would be very considerate of you to keep that dog on a leash.
I don't think that's much to ask for...

Like I said before, if you do not show your dog how you want him to behave in a certain situation, he will make something up on his own. Enlist as much help as you can. I met a lady today who was the "kid person", she called herself. A woman down the street from her trained a service dog, and this lady had small children. She volunteered her family for the dog's kid training (how to ignore hyper kids). Read these posts, and look at some of the complaints. Go camping, and spend some time on the trail. Is your dog aggressive during either? If you let him act protectively, you are giving him the alpha role, and he will listen to you when he wants to. Then, he'll be miserable and confused, because you are yelling at him all the time.

I think it is a given that you cannot stay in shelters with a dog. The main reason is that you cannot protect your dog well enough from mean or inconsiderate people. Rodents and other animals that are attracted to shelters aren't good for your dog, either. With that said, you need to do some training so your dog doesn't trash your campsite. Remember, you are going to be exhausted and cranky. One irrational outburst at your dog could set you back months in training. For example, I don't want muddy paws all over my side of the sleeping bag, or the gear. I've taught Ed to sit right outside the tent, until I get everything set up. When I till him to go in, he goes directly to his side, without stepping anywhere else, and lays down. This assures that he will get praise after a long exhausting day on the trail, instead of "Da**itt! You stupid dog! Awww, man! Just look at what you did! Sh**! Son of a ....!"

Ed's main weaknesses are chasing anything that moves quickly (he is a herding breed), and begging/stealing food from people. He hasn't stolen anyone's food yet, but I bet he would, if I wasn't watching.

One reason that I suggest the above trainers, is because some methods seem to contradict common sense - people sense, but they make perfect dog sense. For example, when I first got Ed at 2 months old, he chewed and destroyed everything. I penned off a room, so he could still see me, but confined his damage to one area. However, the Monks of New Skete state that this is the worst thing you can do for this behavior. They say that you should let the dog sleep in your room every night, and stay with you as much as possible. It worked! Immediately, in fact. Other than the cat toys, he didn't chew up another thing (he no longer chews up the cat toys, but he completely destroys his own).

Ed is extremely smart. He could be a fully-trained machine by now (he just turned 2), but I just don't have the time, and I am not a professional dog trainer. Because of this, I always keep treats in my pocket (I break up a small Milk Bone into 5 pieces, and he'll get about 2 Milk Bones per day). If he obeys a command immediately, I'll really praise him.

It's taken a lot of work, and a heck of a lot of research, to just get to the level we're at. We've had a bunch of setbacks, because I didn't know what I was doing. This is why we should have a non-threatening area, where people can share information.

Alligator
07-18-2006, 23:26
Unleashed Dog Saves Hiker From Bear!
http://www.stunning-stuff.com/read-weird-news-stories/79.html?ci=4

Ridge
07-18-2006, 23:42
Funny, The hiker was also the owner, It didn't say if the bear was after the dog.


Many articles like this one with bears going after loose dogs.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16871913&BRD=1211&PAG=461&dept_id=169691&rfi=6

frieden
07-18-2006, 23:43
http://www.denverpost.com/voices/ci_3915406


And hikers worry about bear attacks.

I'm glad she was upset that someone else was breaking the law, while they were looking for rocks to take.

"We picked our way across these leavings, pausing here and there to look for tiny mineral treasures overlooked by other rock hounds."

This story seems odd. The dogs "attacked" her abdomen, which is an odd place, didn't break the skin, which wouldn't be hard to do there, but it was injured badly enough for it to be swollen and bruised? Then he felt safe enough to go up to the dogs, and check each of their tags?!? She says, "I did not feel the dogs were vicious - just unruly and high- strung", but "vicious" is exactly how the article was written (sensationalist would be more like it).

This shouldn't have happened. They should have had control of their dogs (and it sounds like they were trying to do just that), but making it out to be more than it was doesn't help either. However, when you need to sell an article....

Fear leads to hate....

frieden
07-18-2006, 23:48
Funny, The hiker was also the owner, It didn't say if the bear was after the dog.


Many articles like this one with bears going after loose dogs.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16871913&BRD=1211&PAG=461&dept_id=169691&rfi=6

The bear didn't go after the dog; the dog went after the bear. Why was the dog there in the first place? Oh, yeah, because the stupid owner was messing around with a mamma bear and her cubs!!!!

"Ricks said Lemmons left his car on Ski Mountain Road to take photographs of a mother bear and her two cubs when his small dog, a dachshund, jumped out of the vehicle and chased after bears.

Lemmons attempted to retrieve his dog, which was in the mother bear's mouth, the bear swatted at Lemmons injuring him on his check and chest, Ricks said."

frieden
07-18-2006, 23:51
Ridge is trying to distort the truth, and stir up trouble - again! I vote to ignore him completely, if the moderators cannot take him off. Ridge? Who?

Ridge
07-18-2006, 23:53
"Bear attacks are extremely rare and by comparison a person is about 67 times more likely to be killed by a dog"


http://www.americanbear.org/camping.htm

Alligator
07-19-2006, 00:30
Funny, The hiker was also the owner, It didn't say if the bear was after the dog.
Correct, it says the bear went after the human, who was the owner, who was saved by the dog. Clear chain of events there.

More to the point however, is that you have demonstrated, repeatedly, that your phobia overrides your ability to engage in civil discourse. The article's first two paragraphs clearly indicate that the bear attacked the hiker, yet you could not accept that simple fact. Instead, your deep seated fears had you blame the dog.

A hiker was attacked by a brown bear in a forest in Slovakia. His brave dog bit the bear in its butt and by doing so, saved his master.

The 42-year-old was hiking east of Bratislava in the Lower Tatra area accompanied by his dog when the fully-grown brown bear came out of the bushes and attacked the man.



Your incessant, distorted, and paranoid attacks on this board stemming from your untreated dog phobia clearly portray an individual in need of counseling and/or medication. At the very least, your participation in any newly created dog forum should be denied. You sir, have become the very rabid beast you have sought to eliminate from hiking circles.

Alligator
07-19-2006, 00:43
Tell us Ridge, are you on a crusade?

Is keeping dogs off the trail your personal jihad?

Do you feel like people are keeping tabs on you?

ed bell
07-19-2006, 00:52
I have something very important that you all need to read before you make up your minds about dogs:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13907858/ so there you have it.;)

ed bell
07-19-2006, 01:04
Philadelphia is right on the AT. Isn't that right Philly Hikers?;)

frieden
07-19-2006, 08:01
I have something very important that you all need to read before you make up your minds about dogs:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13907858/ so there you have it.;)

I had a dog, when my kids were growing up, and he was the best babysitter I every had. He kept them out of trouble, and protected them (even from spankings). He saved them countless times from silly little mistakes that kids make that can become critical.

Ed allows me to go out of the house now, without being stranded. I was sick for over 13 years. I've been working on my house, trying to sell it. My friends are amazed that I know how to do all this repair stuff. It's called "umpteen years of being bed-ridden with HGTV"! The other night at work, Ed alerted, so I got a stool and sat down. I told my manager, so she knew that I was going to take it easy (I was at reg., and that involves putting magazines away, recovery, hold shelf, etc). Ed started to alert again. I tried to get him to calm down, saying that he had already alerted me, and I was sitting down, but this time he wouldn't stop. He looked very concerned, jumped up on me, and whined. In short order, I had blood gushing down my throat from the pressure in my brain. I wish I had listened to him.

Because of Ed, Borders is seen as service dog friendly, so a lot of organizations come in there to train. I hear stories all the time about how their dogs have helped the people they are assigned to. One dog called 911, and saved his human's life just 2 weeks ago. He had been trained with a special phone pad.

Animals can tell you a lot, if you are paying attention - something is approaching, danger, storm, water, etc.

Lone Wolf
07-19-2006, 08:05
Can't take these mutts hiking...
www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/westmoreland/s_462296.html

frieden
07-19-2006, 08:34
Can't take these mutts hiking...
www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/westmoreland/s_462296.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/westmoreland/s_462296.html)

There have been studies done with too many rats in too small of a space, in order to study behavior problems in major cities, like New York. The rats started killing eachother. I've seen the same thing with mice. Once they start killing eachother, they continue the behavior, even when moved to roomier quarters. The only solution is to kill all of them, and start over. Gosh, I wonder if the government will give the New Yorkers warning? :eek:

I had a wold hybrid (rescue), and she was a sweet dog. I would not have crammed her in a small space with a pack of wolf hybrids, and then fed her raw meat, though. Duh. Gee, I wonder why they attacked the nice lady, when she became sick. Hmmmm.... Here's your sign.

This makes some good points:

http://explorerdog.com/news/myths.htm

Lone Wolf
07-19-2006, 08:38
The lady claimed to be part American Indian. :rolleyes: Bad doggies.

frieden
07-19-2006, 08:44
Ok, since this is a Hiking Dogs thread, in the Class of 2007.....we're all trying to prepare, right? Just a few months left, with so much training to do!!! Aaahhhh! We're training on as many things as I can think of, but there is one we can't seem to get past - Ed's pack. He loves his service vest - and that's it. He will tolerate the harness for SAR training, if I put it on right before he's sent out, and take it off as soon as we're back. I think he only tolerates it, because that's what all the other dogs do. I've tried to put harnesses on him at other times, and he will chew right through them. The same goes for the pack. Unless I make him wear his pack at work (which seems to be the next step), we don't have a lot of time to train with it. Has anyone else had this problem? How did you overcome it? I've never used any weight in the pack (we haven't gotten that far). I'm preparing to carry everything, but if Ed could carry some stuff, like his hiking bowls/brush/pooh bags/etc, that would be great. Even 2 lbs. out of my pack would be a great help. Thanks!

Lone Wolf
07-19-2006, 08:47
A dog should never carry anything. It's hard enuf on them. The owner must carry it all. My opinion.

Two Speed
07-19-2006, 08:50
Does anyone else get the feeling Lone Wolf is trying to stir the pot? :-? Not that he'd ever do something like that.

Lone Wolf
07-19-2006, 08:53
Does anyone else get the feeling Lone Wolf is trying to stir the pot? :-? Not that he'd ever do something like that.
I stand behind my last statement. I've seen lots of abused dogs over the years on the AT. Especially the ones forced to wear packs.

frieden
07-19-2006, 09:09
A dog should never carry anything. It's hard enuf on them. The owner must carry it all. My opinion.

I understand your position, but I don't want to make Ed into a "pack animal". Ed normally equates working mode with wearing something, most often his service vest. When we are on break, I'll take his vest off, and we play ball or a tug toy. When I put his vest back on, he calms down, and we go to work. I'm hoping with a pack on, he'll see that as trail duty, and his service vest as town duty (so we don't get it all messed up, since they are so expensive). I'm hoping that, like the vest, when I take the pack off, he'll know it is time to relax. However, his pack has a velcro feature, where the packs themselves come off, and the vest part remains. If I could get him to just wear that, it might serve the same purpose.

Otherwise.....I'll take donations for a service dog vest (like he has now) for the trail. After tax and shipping, they are a wee bit over $160. Yeah, exactly! He needs to learn to wear the doggone pack vest that he already has!

Two Speed
07-19-2006, 09:18
I stand behind my last statement. I've seen lots of abused dogs over the years on the AT. Especially the ones forced to wear packs.And I'll stand behind my statement.

Ridge
07-19-2006, 09:23
The lady claimed to be part American Indian. :rolleyes: Bad doggies.

She was probably trying to put a leash on them so she could take'em for a walk!!!

Alligator
07-19-2006, 10:23
It's no wonder everyone thinks you're a phony Ridge. When pressed, you present lame excuses and refusals of simple information. You've made multiple claims in the past: PCT attempt, AT thru-hiker, trail maintainer. Yet not a single outside verification to offer a shred of evidence in your favor. I'd be happy with a simple credible person saying, "Yeah, I know that guy. Yeah, he really is a butthead." Or, "Ridge? Yeah, I hiked past him and his cousin on the PCT. They were hurtin'." I could care less if you're just a crackpot hiker, but currently, you're spamming the board with dog nonsense not at all related to hiking.

Tell us Ridge, are you on a crusade?
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=217702#post217702

What I'm not going to do is let up on these I-don't-give-a-damn dog hikers and let them know how I feel. Question is, how many people have to be attacked by someones unleashed dog, until something is done. How many times does a hiker who's been attack have to hear the dog owners statement "this dog has never done anything like this before, I swear" I'm thinking your only choice is to carry a weapon to defend yourself, or loved ones while in the woods. Maybe, in the future the headlines will be: "Dog owner shot while trying to flee scene after his unleashed dog attacked an armed hiker" This sounds better than "a senior citizen is attacked and left to die, while dog and owner flee scene"!!!
Is keeping dogs off the trail your personal jihad?
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=219517#post219517

I apologize if I mistook you for one of those keeping tabs on me and attacking me personally for any mistake or slip that happens in a posting with my name on it. That said, they'll never get me to lay off unleashed dogs on the AT or any trail.
Do you feel like people are keeping tabs on you?
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=219516#post219516

I better correct myself now before the few independent a--hole dog-hiker trolls keeping tabs on me do. It's the Museum of Natural History and not what I had mistakenly posted.

And, that same group would appreciate you having a photo made every few hours along the trail and posting them so you can be a member of there little bragging or exhibitionist club. They can't come up with a good excuse for having an unleashed dog on a hiking trail, so they attack you personally instead.
Paranoia.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=219566#post219566

I thought I was the only one making mistakes, and being phony on WB.
BTW, we've only followed up on your offer to post real photos after you violated someone's copyright. Your constant distortions are what has led to your complete lack of credibility.

frieden
07-19-2006, 11:21
Whoohooo!!! I got to thinking about the velcro, and looked to see if the pack part would fit on his old service vest, if I used the same type of velcro strips. It would! Ed came up to me, and wanted to go out, so I thought I would try it as soon as I got back home. Then, I thought I could just put the pack on him, and see where else I needed to make changes, so I could do them all at the same time. He fussed and scratched at it a bit, but he had to pee so badly, he was eager to go out. He was doing ok, other than looking back at it a couple of times, so I thought I would go the long way (his favorite), and see if it slipped. As soon as he saw that we were going the long way, he perked up, and never even looked at the pack again. We got home, I took it off just like his vest, said "good job!" and gave him a treat, just like when we come home from work. That's it! I'll only put the pack on him, when we are going the long way. Since that's his favorite, he'll be happy to put the pack on, because of what it represents. :D

Sometimes, you just need to bounce an idea off a wall, or in this case, you guys (hehe, j/k). Problem solved. Hiker just saved $160!

the goat
07-19-2006, 12:38
BTW, we've only followed up on your offer to post real photos after you violated someone's copyright. Your constant distortions are what has led to your complete lack of credibility.

next thing you know, he'll probably try to blame his inane posts on this thread, on one of his children.:rolleyes:

SGT Rock
07-19-2006, 14:08
Here is what I want to propose to you guys:

A forum, members only. People discuss dog hiking. The idea (at least in my mind) is that people can discuss how much really goes into hiking with a dog. The safety considerations for the dog's health. The real problems with putting a pack on a dog, the first aid needed for pets, the equipment you need to carry. How you cannot just take a house pet (or yard pet) and introduce them to the hiking community and long distance hiking overnight for the good of the pet and everyone around it.

And discussions about the impact on hiking like reduced mileage based on the dog's needs, the problems with hostels, hotels, and resturaunts, how hard it can be to get a hitch with a dog, how to get a dog around the Smokies and other places they cannot go legally.

Then the considerations for how a dog has to act around other hikers, how a well trained dog can still get attacked by dogs from bad dog hikers, what is the proper thing to do when your pet does screw up (like bites someone), and other things in that area. How to act around shelters, other hikers, and wild animals like bear, boars, horses, long horned cattle, and other critters that may not take a liking to your dog. How to keep your dog from chasing wildlife and concerns for secondary predadation and introduction of disease into the wild by a domesticated animal.

The the nutrition, water intake, how to take care of feces properly, how much extra food you the hiker will have to carry for your dog. How to keep your dog from begging others food and how to give it the nutrition required by a higher metabolism and the extra exertion which may mean more than 2 pounds of food a day you the hiker will have to tote for just the dog.

Not to mention how the dog may impact the hike of others around you. Apparently nearly half of all respondents to polls here on WhiteBlaze don't like seeing dogs on the trail anymore probably because of people not paying attention to stuff that is mentioned in the first 4 paragraphs.

The people that are the practiced, responsible, and considerate dog hikers could give advice to newbies and learn from each other. If someone really gets how much goes into this, they will may decide themselves how hard it can be and either decide not to bring a dog, or at least do so responsibly.

The people that only chime in negative comments would not have to even read what is there if it bothers them because they will not see it unless they decide to join the group. There would be a sticky about the rules of the forum that subscribers to the forum would have to agree to else loose their privilege to read or post on that forum.

The forum needs a moderator that can take the time to read posts (doesn't have to know everything) and won't be too heavy handed but will also know when some member posts bad advice (like letting a dog run up and jump on people to greet them) and can at least call them on it. The reason I say this is I don't plan to spend a lot of time on this forum and I don't think Troll will either.

Ridge
07-19-2006, 14:17
I recommend "Alligator" for moderator he should be good at recognizing rambling poetry or harassing communication between WB members.

Two Speed
07-19-2006, 14:22
I recommend "Alligator" for moderator he should be good at recognizing rambling poetry or harassing communication between WB members.I'll second that nomination. How about it, 'Gator?

Alligator
07-19-2006, 14:43
While I am sure I could keep you folks in line:D , I don't own a dog and I do not feel that I am the best advocate for LDH trail dogs. While I have had my dog on the trail, there's a bit more about training and nutrition that I really don't know. I realize that complete knowledge is not a requirement, but there have been a few posters with way more experience than I have. I also don't intend to get a dog anytime soon, so I don't really have a ton of interest in moderating the dog forum. [Unless the stray hanging around turns back up. The wife said no but it looked like a cutie...]

Besides, I'm really only here to pummel Ridge for bleeding dog comments throughout the board:) . If he had just kept the dog comments in the dog threads, I wouldn't have noticed. Well, there was that whole suspicious hiker-wife thing. I must respectfully decline.

SGT Rock
07-19-2006, 14:51
Y'all rant on it some more and come up with some ideas. I am through dealing today. It was like 115F or something like that and all that armor in the hot sun for a few hours has me whooped. I have another patrol in the morning and don't want to think much more on anything :D

See y'all tomorrow.

Alligator
07-19-2006, 15:52
Suggestions

Make the forum like straight forward. Strict adherance to topic. Topics should be specific to avoid drift, which will be eliminated.

A case studies area. Hiker presents "bad dog" encounter. Hiker details what behaviors/actions that made it a bad encounter. Hiker suggests what they would have appreciated in the encounter. Then, dog owners/lovers could address the situation. Suggest management behaviors and/or remedies. This would work out some bad feelings while presenting specific learning experiences for dog owners.

On second thought, I will do it if admin wants me to. Otherwise, I looked through some of the old dog threads and used the number of replies to gauge interest levels. The following people might also be interested, in no particular order: Chip, Fatman, Plydem, Frieden, and Two Speed. Funny, Ridge had the most replies for most of these threads:D .

c.coyle
07-19-2006, 15:53
I suggest we all be considerate. Dog owners have to follow some basic rules when taking their dogs into the woods. Dog haters need to lighten up a little. Most of the problems with dogs in the woods would be avoided if dog owners and the dogless put themselves in each other’s shoes. There's a lot of room out there.

The same applies to cellphones, smokers, Bible thumpers.

On the whole, I think all of these problems are blown way out of proportion, almost to the point of hysteria.

Edit: Never mind.

Two Speed
07-19-2006, 16:35
. . . The following people might also be interested, in no particular order: Chip, Fatman, Plydem, Frieden, and Two Speed. . .While I'd be flattered I really don't think I'd be the best choice. The other folks you mentioned seem to be much more tactful than I am.

As far as picking on Ridge, well, I do get a great deal of satisfaction out of seeing his bubble getting busted, but that's probably just more evidence of why I'd be a poor choice for a moderator.

Rain Man
07-19-2006, 16:52
Rain Man, I had no idea you had a gift for reading minds. You know what?, I have the same gift and you got it all wrong. I'm sure that many who voted to ban dogs entirely wish they had options for "Allow dogs, but with restrictions." Being it was not an option it forced them to vote to ban dogs entirely. So, plainly most WBers agree withe so-called "dog lovers."....

FatMan, you make a valid point, even if I do disagree with the conclusion. But that's okay, having a different perspective.

Perhaps the answer is for us to put together a much better poll. I studied statistics and bad polls (and good ones) in college and would be happy to conspire with you via PMs to come up with a good poll. Would you be interested?

Then we can see which of us is right.... or just as likely, that both of us are wrong?! LOL

By the way, "dog lovers" are constantly claiming the ability to read minds. Can't recount the number of times they've posted on WB that "everybody loved my dog" or "nobody ever had a problem with my dogs." So, while you are totally correct about mind reading, you might be perhaps a tad one-sided about pointing it out? In any case, it's not right when any side claims that ability, no. Me neither.

Rain:sunMan

.

Rain Man
07-19-2006, 16:57
Your incessant, distorted, and paranoid attacks on this board stemming from your untreated dog phobia clearly portray an individual in need of counseling and/or medication. At the very least, your participation in any newly created dog forum should be denied. You sir, have become the very rabid beast you have sought to eliminate from hiking circles.

Good Lord! Is this an example of good, fair debate that the "dog lovers" are hoping (HAR HAR) to achieve?!

Rain Man

.

Alligator
07-19-2006, 17:07
Good Lord! Is this an example of good, fair debate that the "dog lovers" are hoping (HAR HAR) to achieve?!

Rain Man

.I know debating Ridge is hardly fair, given his limitations. However, he clearly distorted the linked post, is paranoid (#167), and if you really want to see incessant, search on dogs, then check the top posters by thread. Ridge is top three in most, and 2:1 against the next highest poster in several. No I don't except a shred of fair debate out of Ridge. Do you? (HAR HAR HAR CAP'N RAIN MAN).

Alligator
07-19-2006, 17:18
I'll help you out with the incessant part Rain Man.

Thread (Total Posts) Ridge Posts, Ridge Rank, Next highest poster.

Hiking Dogs thread (180) 25, #1, Next highest poster 22.
Dog poll--Allowed on AT (307) 56, #1, Next highest poster 19.
Dog haters--Allowed out of house (251) 52, #1, Next highest poster 24
For the Dog lovers (14) 2, #1, Next highest poster 1
Thru hiking with dog now (55) 15, #1, Next highest poster 6

I believe this should be sufficient.

the goat
07-19-2006, 17:29
On second thought, I will do it if admin wants me to. Otherwise, I looked through some of the old dog threads and used the number of replies to gauge interest levels. The following people might also be interested, in no particular order: Chip, Fatman, Plydem, Frieden, and Two Speed. Funny, Ridge had the most replies for most of these threads:D .

if you want any help, i'd be glad to offer mine too. unlike a lot of folks here, i have actually hiked w/ my dog from abol bridge to hanover, in addition to much of the virginia a.t. section with him as well, and countless trips through snp. much of this time he was on a leash, other times, not.

did he have any physical problems? nope, did much better than many of the hikers out there, in fact.

have i run into problems with him off the leash? you bet.

have i run into problems with him on the leash? you bet.

would i take him on another long distance trip (500 mi. +)? probably not. a couple hundred miles here or there? sure.

why? it's a much different dynamic hiking a long distance with a dog. there are many logistical reasons not to. i carried all but 1 day of his food, at all times (he's a 100lb. lab mix too!). there are also many tricky spots up north for a dog to go through, not many would've fared so well. towns are a challenge. hitching can be too.

if anyone has questions related to hiking with a dog, please feel free to pm me. i'm able to provide an open-minded response being as i've done a thru w/o my dog, and i've done over a third of the a.t. with him (much of it in the north at that).

MOWGLI
07-19-2006, 17:31
Good Lord! Is this an example of good, fair debate that the "dog lovers" are hoping (HAR HAR) to achieve?!

Rain Man

.

Rain Man, if you think a 'certain WB member' contributes to a "fair debate" about dogs on the trail, I've got a 125' suspension bridge on the AT over the Toccoa River that I'd like to sell you. :rolleyes:

Alligator
07-19-2006, 17:38
if you want any help, i'd be glad to offer mine too. unlike a lot of folks here, i have actually hiked w/ my dog from abol bridge to hanover, in addition to much of the virginia a.t. section with him as well, and countless trips through snp. much of this time he was on a leash, other times, not.
Sure. We'll see what Rock and Troll think.


why? it's a much different dynamic hiking a long distance with a dog. there are many logistical reasons not to. i carried all but 1 day of his food, at all times (he's a 100lb. lab mix too!). there are also many tricky spots up north for a dog to go through, not many would've fared so well. towns are a challenge. hitching can be too.
...This suggests another good area of discussion--tough geographic sections. I'm thinking, coming down off of Dragon's Tooth and such.

the goat
07-19-2006, 17:54
This suggests another good area of discussion--tough geographic sections. I'm thinking, coming down off of Dragon's Tooth and such.

yup. besides the obvious, there's also: sugarloaf mountain (northern side), goose eye, the presidentials (i did tuckerman w/ my dog), north side of moosilauke (sp?), a rock face just south of zealand falls, the first rock slide you get to in the wilderness (i forget the name)....what's worse is i had i hiked all of these in '01 (save tuckerman) and had forgotten a/b how challenging they might be with a dog in tow....never done it, but i would imagine the north of dragon's tooth would be a bitch to come down with a dog (pardon the pun).

blackbishop351
07-19-2006, 18:31
I vote (IS there a vote?) that The Goat, or somebody with the same attitude he has, becomes moderator for the new Dog forum. Someone with experience on both sides of the fence, but who doesn't come down too far on either side.

Just my .02

Dances with Mice
07-19-2006, 19:34
Rain Man, if you think a 'certain WB member' contributes to a "fair debate" about dogs on the trail, I've got a 125' suspension bridge on the AT over the Toccoa River that I'd like to sell you. :rolleyes:First, the AT doesn't cross the Taccoa. And second, I bought that bridge (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=6083&c=665&userid=1030)last year from two turkey hunters I met at Martin's Dixie Depot (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=7066&c=665&userid=1030).

MOWGLI
07-19-2006, 19:41
First, the AT doesn't cross the Taccoa. And second, I bought that bridge (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=6083&c=665&userid=1030)last year from two turkey hunters I met at Martin's Dixie Depot (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=7066&c=665&userid=1030).



What are you saying? New York has the GWB and Georgia has the DWMB?
Are dogs allowed on YOUR bridge?

Dances with Mice
07-19-2006, 19:46
What are you saying? New York has the GWB and Georgia has the DWMB? Are dogs allowed on YOUR bridge?What I'm saying is "Hey! What happened to the comments that used to be underneath the photos?"

SGT Rock
07-20-2006, 06:33
Suggestions

Make the forum like straight forward. Strict adherance to topic. Topics should be specific to avoid drift, which will be eliminated.

A case studies area. Hiker presents "bad dog" encounter. Hiker details what behaviors/actions that made it a bad encounter. Hiker suggests what they would have appreciated in the encounter. Then, dog owners/lovers could address the situation. Suggest management behaviors and/or remedies. This would work out some bad feelings while presenting specific learning experiences for dog owners.

On second thought, I will do it if admin wants me to. Otherwise, I looked through some of the old dog threads and used the number of replies to gauge interest levels. The following people might also be interested, in no particular order: Chip, Fatman, Plydem, Frieden, and Two Speed. Funny, Ridge had the most replies for most of these threads:D .

Thanks for the list of possibles. Plydem and Frieden were two that came to mind immediately when I thought about this.

As to drift, I am not afraid of a little drift, I just don't want to see every thread turn into the same debate about dogs on the trail. A little clowning is OK IMO and sometimes a thread is getting stale on the same topic and someone injects a new thought into it. That could be considered drift or a new angles. That would be something a moderator would have to judge. It is easy to beat up an admin or moderator, sometimes it is harder to make a judgment call because someone always gets pissed off either way.

And for the record it was only 111F yesterday. I don't want to be accused of exaggerating data on a dog thread :p

SGT Rock
07-20-2006, 06:38
First, the AT doesn't cross the Taccoa. And second, I bought that bridge (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=6083&c=665&userid=1030)last year from two turkey hunters I met at Martin's Dixie Depot (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=7066&c=665&userid=1030).

Hey, thanks for those photos. I was wondering about that store as a re-supply point for me BMT/AT thru-hike. Now I am looking forward to meeting the owners.

BTW. This sort of slightly off topic banter on a thread is what I meant by reasonable topic drift. :cool:

plydem
07-20-2006, 09:04
WOW, go away for a few days and just look at what happens! I am honored to have been one of the ones suggested to be a moderator of a new dog forum. I really don't have long-distance hiking experience with my dog but I am not sure that this would necessarily be a requirement of a moderator. However, I agree with some others that it would be nice if someone did have this experience. Goat seems to be one of the few mentioned that generally seems reasonable in his arguments and has the necessary experience. I would do it if asked though. Now, back to catching up on the rest of the WB posts I missed.

Alligator
07-20-2006, 09:57
...
As to drift, I am not afraid of a little drift, I just don't want to see every thread turn into the same debate about dogs on the trail.
...I'm not concerned in general about drift either, but these threads usually do turn into the same debate about dogs on the trail. There's a long record of these threads doing that. [Which BTW, to set the record straight, I have not been party to.] Simply having a new thread area without some moderation will do nothing to change that. IMO, the new forum will not get off the ground without some clear successes in compomise. Starting the forum off with some easy and narrowly defined topics where folks can meet somewhere in the middle might alleviate some of the rancor. This is where I was coming from weeks ago.

I have spoken with Attroll and to make matters easier for admin I again withdrew my interest in moderating any new dog forum and I am putting my backing behind the Goat. (That probably doesn't help you any Goat LOL).

Two Speed
07-20-2006, 10:07
. . . I am putting my backing behind the Goat. (That probably doesn't help you any Goat LOL).Well, if the new forum turns into a flamefest we can have REALLY good barbeque!

MOWGLI
07-20-2006, 10:12
Goat, if you fail to live up to our expectations, we will all take turns twisting your teats. :eek:

the goat
07-20-2006, 10:50
Goat, if you fail to live up to our expectations, we will all take turns twisting your teats. :eek:

i just might enjoy that:D

frieden
07-20-2006, 12:16
Sure, I'd love to help out on a trail dog forum. I think it will really help to share tips and ideas - newbie and experienced alike. There have been quite a few people putting in their two cents, pro and con, which would help someone make up their mind about taking their dog on a trail.

There's nothing wrong with a few drifts to keep the mood light and friendly! :)

I've taken Ed all over the country, so I know about town problems, and he's got a vest! Goat, what kinds of problems did you face? What do you do with your dog, when you go into a store, or the post office?

SGT Rock
07-20-2006, 12:26
Just to let you all know the duties of a moderator don't mean you have to answer everything or know everything. Just have to be able to deal with lots of flack and spend some time regularly sorting through the threads in the area. It helps greatly if you have a descent background in the topic and care about it as well. In fact the more the better. What does help is the ability to generate thought without giving all the answers all the time and the ability to steer people away from arguments without using a hammer.

Ridge
07-20-2006, 13:54
Until Dog-hikers follows the ATC's recommendation: "We recommend dogs be leashed at all times, as a matter of courtesy to other hikers and to minimize stress to wildlife" there will never be peace. It's the ones who will not do this, that seek approval here at WB, thinking that if the WB folks says it ok then it must be. What a joke!!!

Alligator
07-20-2006, 14:04
Sometimes you just really need the hammer:) .

Ridge
07-20-2006, 14:04
I'll help you out with the incessant part Rain Man.

Thread (Total Posts) Ridge Posts, Ridge Rank, Next highest poster.

Hiking Dogs thread (180) 25, #1, Next highest poster 22.
Dog poll--Allowed on AT (307) 56, #1, Next highest poster 19.
Dog haters--Allowed out of house (251) 52, #1, Next highest poster 24
For the Dog lovers (14) 2, #1, Next highest poster 1
Thru hiking with dog now (55) 15, #1, Next highest poster 6

I believe this should be sufficient.

Have you ever been jailed for harassing phone calls??? It fits you!!!

Two Speed
07-20-2006, 14:19
Ridge, are you disputing the numbers? If you can prove Alligator lied why don't you report him to the site administrators?

the goat
07-20-2006, 14:28
Just to let you all know the duties of a moderator don't mean you have to answer everything or know everything. Just have to be able to deal with lots of flack and spend some time regularly sorting through the threads in the area. It helps greatly if you have a descent background in the topic and care about it as well. In fact the more the better. What does help is the ability to generate thought without giving all the answers all the time and the ability to steer people away from arguments without using a hammer.

sounds good to me. i suppose i can do without my trusty hammer.:D

lemme know if you'd like any assistance in this capacity, i'd be glad to offer it.

the goat

SGT Rock
07-20-2006, 14:32
Sounds good Goat, I am still waiting for ATTroll, he may be hiking - I hope so :D

And if you need to hike for extended periods (like a thru-hike) there is no problems getting fill ins and such.

the goat
07-20-2006, 14:35
excellent, lemme know when you and ATTroll have had a chance to talk a/b it.

plydem
07-20-2006, 15:55
Sounds good Goat, I am still waiting for ATTroll, he may be hiking - I hope so :D

And if you need to hike for extended periods (like a thru-hike) there is no problems getting fill ins and such.

Like I said earlier, I would be happy to provide back-up if necessary.

frieden
07-20-2006, 17:57
Like I said earlier, I would be happy to provide back-up if necessary.

Ditto. We'll back you up, Goat!

the goat
07-20-2006, 22:09
thanks frieden, alligator & plydem for the support.


Goat, what kinds of problems did you face? What do you do with your dog, when you go into a store, or the post office?

to answer your questions frieden: the p.o. was never a problem, it's such a short a trip. resupplying at a store sucks b/c that takes a while, and it makes me really nervous (and i'm sure moose too) to leave him tied outside a store for 30-45 min. while i resupply. sit-down restaurants are out of the question (for me anyways).
if you must leave the trail for any reason, traveling with a dog is a challenge, both logistically & monetarily. i had to do this once with mine, and ended up having to rent a car (big $$$). i ended up sending him home (to my family) on this trip, because i knew i had to leave the trail at least once more for a wedding, and couldn't afford another hefty car rental charge.----even if you have nothing planned, things can always come up while you're on the trail such as weddings & funerals, and i've had to get off for both.
i got lost hiking with moose on a blue-blaze and to make a long story short, we had to bushwhack for at least six miles of rugged terrain (leashless of course). as if the situation didn't suck enough, we came to a shear cliff in the middle of the woods that i could climb down, but he couldn't (the whole opposable thumb thing). we doubled back and hiked horizontally until we could hike steeply down. we repeated this three more times before we got back to the white blazes. (embarrassingly enough, this was my "own back yard", a blue blaze off the AT in SNP).
my point is: anything can happen, even the unexpected. i had even thru'ed before i ever decided to take my dog on a long one; and still i ran into many, many unforseen "challenges".

StarLyte
07-20-2006, 23:00
Hello Rain,

I section hike with one or two dogs at different times during the year and of course sometimes without them. When I do hike with my dogs I follow a few rules:

1. Always keep your dog on a leash. A well trained dog will keep the same pace as you walk. I use a 6' leash / belt system that keeps my hands free.

2. LNT. Clean up after your dog. Bury waste just like you would dig a cat hole for yourself.

3. TENT or Tarp 50 to 100 yards away from any shelter or campsite. Dogs and shelters do not mix ! The smell of other hikers food, mice at night and other distractions can be a problem. ALSO some hikers don't like dogs.
By keeping some distance from a shelter or campsite where other hikers are camping makes good sense and there should be no trouble.

4. Don't let your dog near a water source. Get the water to your dog.

5. Take your dog off trail at least 10 yards when the dog needs to pee or take a dump. (NO deposits on the trail!!)

6. Always remember to keep your dog under control when passing other hikers. Step off the trail a few yards to let them pass or if you pass them.
Even if your dog is friendly, some folks don't want to be bothered by your dog.

I have found that these few rules work best for me and my dogs.

Best of luck, Happy Trails,
Chip ;)


Chip - you are a considerate person if you follow your own rules-very nice-I like to see that.

I have to add something VERY important: BE AWARE of your dogs' needs. What condition their pads are in? Is your dog carrying too much weight? Is your dog overheated? Exhausted? Do you know what the signs are for that? I'm just saying, treat your dog with respect - that's a lot of miles.

Have fun on your hike.

SGT Rock
07-21-2006, 05:16
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=439

New dog forum open here. Goat and Frieden are set up as moderators for now. Also, the membership settings to limit use of this forum is not set yet. It is still an open forum at this time. Working that issue.

Phreak
07-21-2006, 16:46
Hey Sarge,
Just a quick note to say I like the new dog forum. It's great to be able to actually discuss dog issues without all the flaming. I see valid points on both sides of the debate but at least it's a debate now.. not a b*tchfest.

Thanks!
B~

Minervan12
11-09-2006, 14:57
Hello all. I have been keeping up with the dog debate for a minute now...and have taken everything to heart...the good, the bad, and the ugly.

My AT thru-hiking partner and I (2007 baby!) have been training our baby girl, Violet, since birth to be our AT Dog. I can fully understand that some people are not fond of dogs...they mess up drinking water, they take up space on the trail, they bark, they beg for food, they run rampant...

I'd be annoyed by a dog that did these things as well....

Which is why, in preparation for our thru-hike, my partner and I have made sure to train our dog to step to the side of the trail if someone is passing by, to be tied up to a tree during public supper times, to stay out of the "kitchen" when no one else is around, to stay away from drinking places (she uses her bowl), and definitely not to beg for any food.

Additionally, we have taken pet first-aid to ensure her safety. She is a joy and a constant companion...while it is hard to understand that some folks don't get that...I respect it. But just know...that Violet will begin hiking sobo with my on June 21st...

Minervan12
11-09-2006, 14:57
Oh, and she will be leashed!