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Alison
03-03-2003, 17:15
How many "zero days" does the typical thru-hiker do on the AT?

chris
03-03-2003, 17:24
Alot of people use the general rule, "1 zero
day per 6 days of hiking." Note that this does not depend on what your typical hiking day is like mileage-wise. Last spring, on my Springer->Damascus hike, I had one zero day at Hot Springs. But, I also took an additional half day at Fontana, Hot Springs, Erwin, and Watuga Lake.

Jumpstart
03-03-2003, 17:51
We stopped keeping track after 30.

Lots of people took more, lots of folks took less. It depends on so many factors. Money is a big issue, usually the folks with little cash took less days off, becuase zero days were generally spent in town, and town is expensive. Zero days on the trail, however, are a nice alterantive, peaceful, and a great way to catch up with people who are "right behind you". To each his own. Take as many as you want, and as many as you need. We didn't call them zero days, but "days off"...everyone deserves a little break now and then :)

gravityman
03-03-2003, 19:12
In fact, don't plan at all! At least schedule wise. It's just not worth it, and in fact will tend to either discourage you because you can't keep up with what you wanted to be doing, or you will push yourself and end up injuring yourself.

I'm assuming that is why you are asking about zeros. I think 30 is a reasonable number to plan on in order to set your long term schedule. Otherwise, ditto what Jumpstart said.

You will have to take zeros to recover mentally and physically. But you will only know when to take them a few days ahead of time.

Another argument against planning which zeros you want is that you end up staying in some wierd places that aren't very interesting (we took a zero at The Village Motel because it was planned, but we didn't really need it. This place is just a truck stop) and we pushed through some interesting places where we should have taken more time (We should have taken 2 zeros in Hot Springs, but it wasn't scheduled.)

Go with the flow! It took me too long to learn this (Kincora pretty much taught me it... And my wife was thrilled when I learned :)

Gravity Man

Peaks
03-03-2003, 19:55
Originally posted by Alison
How many "zero days" does the typical thru-hiker do on the AT?
To quote Roland Mueser from his book "Long Distance Hiking," the average person takes off 24 days.

Aubrey
03-03-2003, 20:52
Days off for me are just another day spent on the trail - even if I'm in a town. It's all good!

I met a guy at Rusty's that was going for the record of most zeroes taken during one thruhike - I have NO idea if this record even exists :D but he was determined.

I got to Rusty's that year on June 8th - he'd been there for about 10 days. His total number of zero-days when I asked was 52! You guessed it, he didn't finish the trail. I later heard second-hand that he decided that Rusty's was Katahdin in disguise and stayed there until he finally went home.

Just to keep this reasonable, though, I agree with the others: 25-30 is enough to let you smell the roses without the roses wilting of old age.

Alison
03-03-2003, 21:26
Thanks, everyone! Very helpful.

Sleepy the Arab
03-03-2003, 23:11
Amatuers.

53 zero days, and I did finish. Hoodie-hoo!

Aubrey
03-04-2003, 00:54
Well, Sleepy, that JUST might make you the King of Zeroes (Impressive title, no?).

Congratulations! :banana

Moose2001
03-04-2003, 07:59
Alison - be careful about not going to far toward NOT taking zeros either. I went from Pearisburg to Duncannon without a single zero day. At the time I didn't really realize it. We were having a good time and just motoring along. Soon after Duncannon, my burnout set in. I just did not want to hike anymore. In hindsight, I attribute much of it to the fact I did not take the time to relax, smell the roses, look around, and enjoy. Won't make the same mistake this year.

SedentarySteve
03-04-2003, 08:36
I don't recommend doing what Village Athiest did - 100 zero days at the Doyle Hotel in Duncannon. A local record. And I never saw him hoisting a Yuengling! Arrived Feb. 18, 2002 and departed June 1. ;-)

Peaks
03-04-2003, 09:34
As you see from the posts, the number of zero days varies greatly. Some hikers, like myself take very few days off, while others spend almost as much time off the trail as on.

You asked what the average was, so I quotted it. So, I hope you use this information to plan your own hike. Yes, I believe that a base line plan is necessary. Once on the trail, keep it flexible. But, with a base line plan, it tells loved ones where you plan to be when, and it becomes a measure of progress as you hike along.

Another topic that frequently comes up is the high mileage day. People brag about their say, 30 mile day. What they don't say, is that after a big mileage day, they took 2 days off to recover. So, the effect of a big mile day was negated by the zero days that followed.

A much better way to look a progress is the number of miles per week. Based on data published by Roland Mueser in Long Distance Hiking, the average hiker does 87 miles per week. Most hikers average between 79 and 106 miles per week. Only 10% do more miles per week, and only 10% do less miles per week.

RagingHampster
03-04-2003, 10:28
I'm aiming for 5 days hiking, 1 day off.

Of course terrain will dictate my progress, but I'm aiming at 100mi/wk after the smokies up until the whites.

I'll be training with multiple 100-300 mile hikes before hand in Vermont and Massachusetts along with my current training program to get myself ready for '04 S>N.

Presto
03-04-2003, 10:44
21 0-days including 6 days visiting friends/relatives and 3 days for traildays. This doesn't count short days. We did 10 days under 5 miles which you will consider almost as good as a zero day. Our theory was if you can get into town early in the morning or leave late at night, it allowed us to save a little money on hostels/hotels. It also helps "easing" you back into hiking after sitting in town for a day. Sometimes heading out of town is very difficult- when you leave town you are almost always climbing back up to the ridgeline and you have a heavy pack full of food. Short days out of town are really nice.

Lone Wolf
03-19-2009, 03:59
How many "zero days" does the typical thru-hiker do on the AT?

2 days off per week

mweinstone
03-19-2009, 04:49
one every 6th day.

fehchet
03-19-2009, 05:16
Lone Wolf, don't you and Gypsy have the record of zero days? At least in the top five?

garlic08
03-19-2009, 09:46
Best thing I found was to be consistent. As Peaks said above, a 30-miler followed by two zeros is counterproductive. If you're serious about hiking, it's best to find a comfortable pace and stick to it. "Miles per week" is a better goal than miles per day, for instance, if you're goal-driven, and it's OK not to be.

I found I did better with "near-os"--hike into town early morning, do all your errands, enjoy some good meals, then hike out of town late afternoon. Or take two near-os if you get into town later--try to find lodging that allows early check-in and stay there 24 hours, more bang for the buck. I only actually took three full zeros last year, all of them at friends' houses, but I took lots of easy days with a 24 hour hiking break.

Frick Frack
03-19-2009, 09:57
I don't recommend doing what Village Athiest did - 100 zero days at the Doyle Hotel in Duncannon. A local record. And I never saw him hoisting a Yuengling! Arrived Feb. 18, 2002 and departed June 1. ;-)

Ughhh....and I think I have lung cancer after being there 2 days....

Just kidding, the Doyle was great and so were the cold brews.

We took 8 (maybe 9?) zeros but lots of neros.

Sleepy the Arab
03-19-2009, 19:32
Amatuers.

53 zero days, and I did finish. Hoodie-hoo!

And 41 the second time I finished.

In addition, there were 47 zero days the first time I didn't finish, and I haven't tallied those from the second time I didn't finish. So including my best guess, I've probably spent about 160 days not hiking the Appalachian Trail, while out hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Hey, beer don't drink itself! :banana

Lone Wolf
03-19-2009, 19:36
And 41 the second time I finished.

In addition, there were 47 zero days the first time I didn't finish, and I haven't tallied those from the second time I didn't finish. So including my best guess, I've probably spent about 160 days not hiking the Appalachian Trail, while out hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Hey, beer don't drink itself! :banana

in 2000 me and gypsy hiked 1600 miles. it took 9 months. we had about 120 days off

CrumbSnatcher
03-19-2009, 19:37
And 41 the second time I finished.

In addition, there were 47 zero days the first time I didn't finish, and I haven't tallied those from the second time I didn't finish. So including my best guess, I've probably spent about 160 days not hiking the Appalachian Trail, while out hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Hey, beer don't drink itself! :banana sleepy don't mess around. he could school alot of people on the proper way to zero!!!

Tin Man
03-19-2009, 19:39
sleepy don't mess around. he could school alot of people on the proper way to zero!!!

yeppers, but it sounds like wolf is king of the zero

CrumbSnatcher
03-19-2009, 19:43
lone wolf went to the same school as sleepy! TOP OF THIER CLASS. In 99' i met 3 aussies, that took 90 zeros, then they were in a hurry to finish before their visa's ran out.

Blissful
03-19-2009, 20:01
The nero was our favorite. Getting to town at 10 AM and staying the day / night and hike out the next. Though sometimes we had a nero and zero combined.

jersey joe
03-19-2009, 21:05
How many "zero days" does the typical thru-hiker do on the AT?
I had zero zeros, but then again, i wasn't typical.

CrumbSnatcher
03-19-2009, 21:20
I had zero zeros, but then again, i wasn't typical.
nothing wrong with zeros. BUT i have no zeros planned for this year either. s*** to do, gotta get back home.

jersey joe
03-19-2009, 21:22
Neros can be just as good.

volleypc
03-19-2009, 21:39
I am on the trail now and I have taken 2 days in about 15 days so I would say about one per week is about right. Alot of it depends on weather also. When I was heading to the NOC I knew I was going to get some rain for 4 days so I pushed hard through rain for 2 days to take an easy day at the NOC. I also got into Fontana late so instead of just going to the resort, I stayed at the shelter and went to the resort the next day to take a full rest day before entering the smokies. I do not expect to take another rest day until Hot Springs.

Blue Jay
03-19-2009, 21:55
As many as you want, in fact many of us are on a zero day today. So zero even this thread is moldy.:banana

Jim Adams
03-20-2009, 00:02
79 in 1990.
61 in 2002.
...not only will the beer not drink itself, the whiskey won't even consider it!:)

geek

stranger
03-21-2009, 01:53
I think zero's are relevant only in terms of 3 day averages. What I mean by that is the following:

Hiker A camps at Blue Mountain in Georgia, then;
- camps at Deep Gap
- hikes into Hiawassee
- camps at Plumorchard Gap
No zero day but a 3 day average of 7.76 miles per day

Hike B camps at Blue Mountain in Georgia, then;
- hikes into Hiawassee
- takes a zero day
- camps up on Standing Indian
Takes a zero but a 3 day average of 12.33 miles per day

I'm more like Hiker B, but this also means a more expensive hike. You can take tons of zeros as long as you do decent miles on either side of it. Last year people would pass me while I was in town and then I would pass them on the trail, this went on for hundreds of miles. So zero days doesn't mean going slower necessarily.

sloopjonboswell
03-21-2009, 03:31
zero whenever the hell you feel like it.

Sleepy the Arab
03-21-2009, 12:44
yeppers, but it sounds like wolf is king of the zero

Actually, the Emperor of Zeros outranks the king. He doesn't use the title because it doesn't flow as well.

prain4u
03-22-2009, 01:09
If anyone cares to share some details of their personal life.....please tell me (us):

How are you able to get away from the "real world" for a 6-10 month extended duration thru hike? (What really amazes me is that some of you do these "longer than average" thru hikes multiple times in just a few short years). What's your "secret"?

What do you do about silly little details like a job, finances, family obligations, etc?

Do you finance your hikes with something like a pension check, rich relatives, and/or good investments? Even if you have no real financial obligations back home, a 6-10 month thru hike isn't totally free. Where do you get the money--especially if you do a 6-10 month hike annually or every 2-3 years?

Also, do you have any children or other obligations that "require" your occasional presence back home? What do you do about those obligations? (Frankly, I am envious of y'all--and I wanna know your secret!)

One reason why I would have to "rush" a thru hike into 4-6 months (and have minimal "zero days") is a VERY REAL need to pay bills (including my food bill on the trail). Furthermore, my family life would disintergrate if I left home for 6-10 months for a hike (especially if I did that multiple times in just a few year's time). My kids need to see me occasionally! I also have a very real need to keep a roof over my family's head and keep food on their table.

What's your secret?

double d
03-22-2009, 01:55
Prain4u, some folks take years to plan a thru hike and usually have the support of people at home. If someone is young, say under 25, they may have just graduated from college or got discharged from the military, while those older then say 25-30 usually have to take time off from work and home. Most think it through and have alot of support back home. Of course it doesn't hurt to have a rich uncle or grandma leaves you a few bucks, but as you say, the "real world" is the world that we create each day and if your on the AT on a long distance hike, then that is the "real world". Just my thoughts, I've never had the opportunity to do a thru hike, but I do plan on taking a few long distance hikes in the future as well as I have done in the past.

Tilly
03-22-2009, 09:50
If anyone cares to share some details of their personal life.....please tell me (us):

How are you able to get away from the "real world" for a 6-10 month extended duration thru hike? (What really amazes me is that some of you do these "longer than average" thru hikes multiple times in just a few short years). What's your "secret"?

What do you do about silly little details like a job, finances, family obligations, etc?

Do you finance your hikes with something like a pension check, rich relatives, and/or good investments? Even if you have no real financial obligations back home, a 6-10 month thru hike isn't totally free. Where do you get the money--especially if you do a 6-10 month hike annually or every 2-3 years?

Also, do you have any children or other obligations that "require" your occasional presence back home? What do you do about those obligations? (Frankly, I am envious of y'all--and I wanna know your secret!)

One reason why I would have to "rush" a thru hike into 4-6 months (and have minimal "zero days") is a VERY REAL need to pay bills (including my food bill on the trail). Furthermore, my family life would disintergrate if I left home for 6-10 months for a hike (especially if I did that multiple times in just a few year's time). My kids need to see me occasionally! I also have a very real need to keep a roof over my family's head and keep food on their table.

What's your secret?

I'm not married, I have no children, no mortgage, no car payment, no pets, and because of a fire I also have no stuff. There is no one that depends on me and I am indebted to no one at this point.

Not saying it's the right way or the easy way. Not suggesting people should put off having kids (I just don't think I want any myself.) And it's hard, I want to get pets really, really, bad, and my SO would love to buy a house so he can garden. Big trade off's involved. And there is no way I can just wait until retirement, at 29 my body is already falling apart.

Oh, and, I'm underemployeed right so leaving my job wasn't so hard.

garlic08
03-22-2009, 11:03
Tilly, you're so right about the trade-offs. When I meet backpackers on short trips and they get that far-off look in their eyes if they ask about my trip, I try to brighten their day a little by talking about the things they love, like their kids, their career, etc. I'm not sure, but I think very few would trade.

There's an old 60's folk song by Tom Paxton,

"If you see me passing by, and you sit and you wonder why
And you wish that you were a rambler too.
Nail your shoes to the kitchen floor, lace 'em up and bar the door
Thank your stars for the roof that's over you."

When I'm no longer hiking, I'll have memories of hikes to get me through. Others may have family, financial security, or whatever they've worked for.

wrongway_08
03-22-2009, 11:28
took off a week in Damascus, 5 days in hot Springs, 8 days in Erwin. 3 - 4 days every where else. Untill meeting up with Peanuts group past Damascus, then it turned into 1 or 2 days.. still it was over 60 days total.

Do what ever you feel like.

A-Train
03-22-2009, 12:49
If anyone cares to share some details of their personal life.....please tell me (us):

How are you able to get away from the "real world" for a 6-10 month extended duration thru hike? (What really amazes me is that some of you do these "longer than average" thru hikes multiple times in just a few short years). What's your "secret"?

What do you do about silly little details like a job, finances, family obligations, etc?

Do you finance your hikes with something like a pension check, rich relatives, and/or good investments? Even if you have no real financial obligations back home, a 6-10 month thru hike isn't totally free. Where do you get the money--especially if you do a 6-10 month hike annually or every 2-3 years?

Also, do you have any children or other obligations that "require" your occasional presence back home? What do you do about those obligations? (Frankly, I am envious of y'all--and I wanna know your secret!)

One reason why I would have to "rush" a thru hike into 4-6 months (and have minimal "zero days") is a VERY REAL need to pay bills (including my food bill on the trail). Furthermore, my family life would disintergrate if I left home for 6-10 months for a hike (especially if I did that multiple times in just a few year's time). My kids need to see me occasionally! I also have a very real need to keep a roof over my family's head and keep food on their table.

What's your secret?

My 'secret" was more luck than anything. Luck that I discovered at 15 or 16 that I wanted to long distance hike and I say luck because I had no kids, partners, or full-time jobs, other than to negotiate school. Second hike was after college-again, lots of free time, never had started a long-term job, flexible, no bills/debt, no kids, etc.

Things have changed some but I still try to not get involved in things that tie me down for long periods of time. Staying debt free is important. Again, I got very lucky in that my folks paid for my college which I am eternally grateful for and realize this is not the case for many.

There are lots of good advice on the site about saving money. I do a lot of that. Walk or public transp most places. Don't go out to eat much, no movies, drink beer at home mostly, buy food in bulk, etc.

It is definately harder to figure out when you have kids, married, mortgage, house, cars, career, etc. which is why most of the thru-hikers are transition people between school and work or work and retirement.

Most of the folks who are repeat offenders made it work by sacrificing the career track for something they thought to be more worthwhile than money and stability.

Sleepy the Arab
03-22-2009, 12:51
Repeat after me: If you want it bad enough, you will make it happen.

Rent, don't own your domicile.
Don't live in a luxury apartment - go cheap. Or if possible, mooch a little off relatives.
Work two jobs during the off seasons.
Don't eat out. Ever. And learn to eat cheaply - and healthily - at home.
Ask yourself what you can cut out of life - do you really need 200 cable channels? Superfast internet? Can you set the thermostat a few degrees lower? How many DVD's do you reasonably need to own?

Remember: every dollar frittered away equals about a half mile of hiking.

Tilly
03-22-2009, 12:54
Tilly, you're so right about the trade-offs. When I meet backpackers on short trips and they get that far-off look in their eyes if they ask about my trip, I try to brighten their day a little by talking about the things they love, like their kids, their career, etc. I'm not sure, but I think very few would trade.

There's an old 60's folk song by Tom Paxton,

"If you see me passing by, and you sit and you wonder why
And you wish that you were a rambler too.
Nail your shoes to the kitchen floor, lace 'em up and bar the door
Thank your stars for the roof that's over you."

When I'm no longer hiking, I'll have memories of hikes to get me through. Others may have family, financial security, or whatever they've worked for.


Exactily. Some people at work were like, "Oh, you're so lucky you get to just pick up and leave" etc. And I pointed out that most of them have more responsibility than I do, but also more payoff--children, a nice house/yard, a fulltime, good job, pets, etc. Those things are wonderful, too.
Later I said goodbye to a coworker that I'm close with and almost started crying. Being "free" is great but you still have things that are hard. Lots of trade-off. And I can see if you hike every year that you mostly have your hikes to get you by, since the off season is transient. You will leave your job, friends, house/apartment, etc. Not easy, especially when you are past the stage of living with your parents and ostensibly having a 'home' that you can go back to.

garlic08
03-22-2009, 14:00
Repeat after me: If you want it bad enough, you will make it happen.

Rent, don't own your domicile.
Don't live in a luxury apartment - go cheap. Or if possible, mooch a little off relatives.
Work two jobs during the off seasons.
Don't eat out. Ever. And learn to eat cheaply - and healthily - at home.
Ask yourself what you can cut out of life - do you really need 200 cable channels? Superfast internet? Can you set the thermostat a few degrees lower? How many DVD's do you reasonably need to own?

Remember: every dollar frittered away equals about a half mile of hiking.

Excellent tips. A guy I worked with really wanted to have a baby, but couldn't afford it. Know how he made it happen? Started bringing his lunch to work. Turns out his lunch trips to the mall were costing him $20-25 a day, including buying a CD or something, every day. Now he has two kids and probably eats better anyway.

Blue Jay
03-22-2009, 22:47
Remember: every dollar frittered away equals about a half mile of hiking.

Damn Sleepy, you're right of course, but you just ruined my trips to the dollar store.

Serial 07
03-23-2009, 00:33
77

Many Walks
03-23-2009, 12:17
How many "zero days" does the typical thru-hiker do on the AT?
Everyone needs zero days, so take as many as you feel is right for you. Only problem is a thru hiker who takes too many for them to catch up becomes a section hiker. Enjoy your hike!