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adh24
06-01-2006, 08:37
Just got back from section 4 PA hike this past weekend. Had a great time. Pinnacle was great. The cave was pretty cool to. Planning on section 5 over the 4th of July weekend. Was taking a look at the map and there's a blue blaze to the shelter. I think the spring came first then the shelter then a look out. Is there a good site for two tents at the look out? If not I'll just tent at the shelter. Saw pics on the BMECC's web site and there is a lot of tent space at the shelter. Really would like to camp at the look out if possible though. Try to catch a good :sun set

Green Bean
06-01-2006, 08:49
I'm sure you can find a good tent site up there at the over look. I was up through there a couple months ago and really can't remeber. but its an overlook and there most of the time is a nice tent site by overlooks. ~GB

adh24
06-01-2006, 09:53
I'm sure you can find a good tent site up there at the over look. I was up through there a couple months ago and really can't remeber. but its an overlook and there most of the time is a nice tent site by overlooks. ~GB

That's what I figured just wanted a verification form someone who has been up there. Love camping places where there is a nice view. Not to mention a water source near by.

Crash
06-01-2006, 20:28
I found the place was very buggy. I continued a little further south and found a blueberry patch on the right side w/ fire ring.
A view? not at that shelter.
A better spring was south of that site on the left side, real cold water.

shelterbuilder
04-05-2007, 22:54
I found the place was very buggy. I continued a little further south and found a blueberry patch on the right side w/ fire ring.
A view? not at that shelter.
A better spring was south of that site on the left side, real cold water.

It can be buggy - the water table on that part of the ridge is quite high. In fact, there is a cranberry bog a little to the east of the shelter between the Trail and the dirt road (no, I won't say exactly where, but some of the local old-timers took me there years ago).

Yes, there's a view, but panoramic views north from the Trail in Pa. are rare. This view was formed over a rock-fall, and is only a narrow slit, but on a clear day, you can see over 20 miles north to the ridge above Pottsville, Pa. We plan to go in this year and re-cut some of the new growth to restore the original view, but we have no plans to widen it. It wouldn't look natural if we did that.

That better spring that you mention sounds like Sand Spring: clear, cold water, HUGE dry-laid stone impoundment, not too far off the Trail. Because of development in the valley below, this spring sometimes goes dry in July and August, but if you follow the blue trail down another 1/4 mile, there's another one on the right - no impoundment, just a huge area where the water just bubbles up out of the sand. A truly beautiful spot.

fiddlehead
04-06-2007, 06:38
Yes, very rocky at the lookout. More choices for flat camping closer to the shelter. By the way, although i live in Thailand, i have a home in PA that you can see from that lookout as it's only 3 miles away as the crow flies. So, when i'm having parties back at my house in PA, we look out at the AT and i always tell folks that that is where Eagles Nest Shelter is located.
the reason the shelter is so far from the trail is because almostall the land up there on the top of the blue mtn is owned by the PA game commision and they do not allow camping on their land except they have an exception for AT thru-hikers although who is going to be ther deciding person on what that means is beyond me. Anyway, the ATC bought the land where the shelter is but it is not on the top of the mtn where the trail is. I believe it is about .2 to the north (left).
enjoy the view and remember: fiddlehead's house is one of those out there, just to the right of the church steeple but another ridge past it.

emerald
04-06-2007, 07:10
I may be mistaken Fiddlehead, but I believe Eagle's Nest Shelter is situated on Weiser State Forest. I believe shelterbuilder will confirm that.

emerald
04-06-2007, 07:25
... the reason the shelter is so far from the trail is because almost all the land up there on the top of the blue mtn is owned by the PA game commision and they do not allow camping on their land except they have an exception for AT thru-hikers although who is going to be their deciding person on what that means is beyond me.

I think the 25-mile rule shelterbuilder refers to in the Rausch Gap Shelter thread pertains only to Rausch Gap Shelter itself although I've been unable to locate that rule online and link it. Unless PGC's rule supercedes the PA Code linked in Rausch Gap Shelter (post #26) (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=348003#post348003), I believe the code indicates who PGC considers to be a through hiker on SGL. Hikers may also want to click on my link in the next RGS post to review a document posted to PGC's website.

emerald
04-06-2007, 07:46
That better spring that you mention sounds like Sand Spring: clear, cold water, HUGE dry-laid stone impoundment, not too far off the Trail.

As you know shelterbuilder, the blue-blazed Sand Spring Trail when combined with the service road makes for a great loop or circuit hike. There are also quite a few other short trails in this area. Someday, one of us should start a thread on SGL #110 day hikes.

Until sometime in the 80s, the A.T. followed a portion of the SGL service road. It may be what Earl Shaffer called The Road of Many Colors, so named because the shale used to construct the road varied in color.

Near the west end of this service road is Rentschler Marker which honors Harry F. Rentschler, who's considered to be BMECC's founder and the man credited with leading the effort to locate and mark the A.T. between the Susquehanna and Lehigh Rivers.

I believe this road is also depicted in the Kimmel brothers' photo "Easy Hiking."

This is an area rich in A.T. history. I have more stories than I can now relate about this area, but it is one of the portions of the A.T. that I think about often and love dearly.

emerald
04-06-2007, 14:06
When the mountain laurel blooms in early June, one of my favorite hikes is the service road on SGL 110. It's an early birthday present I give myself most years when I don't forget.:)

I'd probably hear about it from purists and BMECC members, so I won't suggest hikers take the service road when the mountain laurel blooms.;)

emerald
04-06-2007, 14:13
You know, I'd really be looking for trouble if I pointed out that early July when the wild blueberries are ripe is another good time to take that hike. Then PGC and the bears would probably be :mad: and not :) upon my efforts either, but I'll take that chance.:D

emerald
04-06-2007, 14:20
Just kidding!:) PGC doesn't mind if you eat a few wild blueberries as you hike on their service road so long as you leave some behind for the box turtles, thrushes and other critters.;)

shelterbuilder
04-06-2007, 15:53
I think the 25-mile rule shelterbuilder refers to in the Rausch Gap Shelter thread pertains only to Rausch Gap Shelter itself although I've been unable to locate that rule online and link it. Unless PGC's rule supercedes the PA Code linked in Rausch Gap Shelter (post #26) (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=348003#post348003), I believe the code indicates who PCG considers to be a through hiker on SGL. Hikers may also want to click on my link in the next RGS post to review a document posted to PCG's website.

OH, BOY, HERE WE GO! I hope that I can keep this all straight enough in my own feeble little mind to be able to get it out correctly here.

"25-mile rule": this was designed only for the Rausch Gap shelter area because of the rampant abuse of the area in the late 70's and 80's by those to whom I lovingly refer as the "party-hearty" crowd. Many of these were parking at one of the two nearby parking lots, slogging in with cases of beer, fireworks, weapons, etc, camping for the weekend, trashing the place and leaving their mess behind for others to clean up. Instituting this rule gave our "boys in green" from the PGC a major enforcement tool: if you were camped at RGS, AND your car was in one of those 2 parking lots, you were in violation, and could be fined, told to leave - and, yes, take your trash with you! If your car was elsewhere, and you were not acting like a moron, you were generally okay.

The 25-mile rule was never intended for any other site than RGS. The PGC has other, general regulations for "primitive, one-night backpack camping" along the AT on State Game Lands that are in force for all other locations, basically "within 200 feet of the footpath, but 500 feet away from streams, springs, trailheads, parking lots and road crossings, and small warming/cooking fires prohibited if the danger of wildfire is 'high, very high, or extreme', as defined by DCNR". These serve to safeguard water quality, discourage some of the "party-hearty" folks, and safeguard the woods from wildfires.

The fact that PGC allows camping anywhere on their land along the Trail is a BIG step forward from the 70's and early 80's, when no camping was allowed. Since PGC is a principal landowner of AT lands in Pa., the earlier "no-camping" policy made outlaws of us all if we were unable/unwilling to trek past their boundaries onto "legal" land.

shelterbuilder
04-06-2007, 16:10
Yes, very rocky at the lookout. More choices for flat camping closer to the shelter. By the way, although i live in Thailand, i have a home in PA that you can see from that lookout as it's only 3 miles away as the crow flies. So, when i'm having parties back at my house in PA, we look out at the AT and i always tell folks that that is where Eagles Nest Shelter is located.
the reason the shelter is so far from the trail is because almostall the land up there on the top of the blue mtn is owned by the PA game commision and they do not allow camping on their land except they have an exception for AT thru-hikers although who is going to be ther deciding person on what that means is beyond me. Anyway, the ATC bought the land where the shelter is but it is not on the top of the mtn where the trail is. I believe it is about .2 to the north (left).
enjoy the view and remember: fiddlehead's house is one of those out there, just to the right of the church steeple but another ridge past it.

Eagle's Nest Shelter is on State Forest Land, and there are a whole OTHER set of regulations for stuff that goes on (or gets built on) State Forest land. Generally, the use restrictions are not as severe as for State Game Lands. However, the ATC and NPS consider the Trail to be "protected" if the land that it's on is publicly owned - both PGC and DCNR are public entitities, so it's all good! The boundary line between PGC and DCNR land roughly parallels the dirt road for miles and can even be seen from the road in some places. PGC owns most of the south side of the ridge, and DCNR owns most of the north side.

I'll look for your house when we go up this summer to re-open the narrow little view that looks north toward Frackville. Maybe "Shades of Grey" will be there, too - if I can pry the computer out of his hands for a while!:D

emerald
04-06-2007, 18:03
Maybe "Shades of Grey" will be there, too - if I can pry the computer out of his hands for a while!:D

Now, there'll no prying anywhere near my computer! I will assist willingly provided you can pry me from my employer, but that's another issue altogether.

The permitting on that can be complex too!

fiddlehead
04-06-2007, 21:22
Maybe the shelter is in the state park. My point is that the trail is thru PA Game commision land thru there. At the time that the shelter was helicoptered in there, there was no camping allowed on state game land. They changed the rule afterwards but ONLY for thru-hikers the way i read it.
so, this is why they had to move the shelter so far off the trail. (at least that is my understanding from people i met up there in one of my many jogs/cross country skis/bicycle rides, etc.
Also, when i started hiking in the 60s and even on my attempted thru in '77, the trail was the long straight dirt road that runs the ridge. It was rerouted onto the rocks sometime in the 80's i believe. My brothers hunt up there a lot and it used to be beutiful place but they logged much of it about 4 years ago. (the game commision said it was good for the deer, but my brother's say it chased most all of them down to the lowlands, i believe it was more for the money) Hunting is everything to a lot of folks in that area so it's not wise to go telling the locals what you think of their game commission. especially when they are carrying weapons.
It is still one of my favorite places when i get home 2-3 months every year. I have enjoyed the stretch between 183 and port clinton numerous times. I even bushwacked up there (to the shelter) from my house one time when i was practicing my map skills for the cdt.

shelterbuilder
04-06-2007, 22:37
Maybe the shelter is in the state park. My point is that the trail is thru PA Game commision land thru there. At the time that the shelter was helicoptered in there, there was no camping allowed on state game land. They changed the rule afterwards but ONLY for thru-hikers the way i read it.
so, this is why they had to move the shelter so far off the trail. (at least that is my understanding from people i met up there in one of my many jogs/cross country skis/bicycle rides, etc.
Also, when i started hiking in the 60s and even on my attempted thru in '77, the trail was the long straight dirt road that runs the ridge. It was rerouted onto the rocks sometime in the 80's i believe. My brothers hunt up there a lot and it used to be beutiful place but they logged much of it about 4 years ago. (the game commision said it was good for the deer, but my brother's say it chased most all of them down to the lowlands, i believe it was more for the money) Hunting is everything to a lot of folks in that area so it's not wise to go telling the locals what you think of their game commission. especially when they are carrying weapons.
It is still one of my favorite places when i get home 2-3 months every year. I have enjoyed the stretch between 183 and port clinton numerous times. I even bushwacked up there (to the shelter) from my house one time when i was practicing my map skills for the cdt.

NOW THAT'S A HARD BUSHWHACK!!! I used to come up from Deer View Road years ago, but that was when I knew folks living up there.

It's not on State Park land, it's on State Forest land - I know, it gets really confusing, but the Dept. of State Parks is another public entity (like Swatara State Park, where we have some relatively new relocations).

No, the general rules about overnight camping apply to everyone, not just thru-hikers, but they only apply on State Game Lands. State Park regulations are different, and State Forest Regulations are different again. (I understand that the Bureau of Forestry is becoming more and more user-friendly, with more camping areas being opened up every year in more remote areas, but that's another topic.) The dirt road is maintained by the Game Commission as an access road for their people to come in and do habitat work (it's also access for loggers, when logging is deemed necessary, as well as bikers and others - like dog-sledders, of which I'm one:D ). The road used to be the Trail for many years, but it was hotter than blazes if you hit it at the wrong time of day, and it seemed to go on forever with no shade and very little water. Now, the Trail is at least shaded, and does pass near several water sources of varying output.

The next time you're up there - either on the road or on the Trail - see how many AMERICAN CHESTNUT TREES you can find. Yes, there are still some up there, and some have even been known to throw nuts for a few years before the blight knocks them down again.

emerald
04-06-2007, 23:14
No, the general rules about overnight camping apply to everyone, not just thru-hikers, but they only apply on State Game Lands.

shelterbuilder, I know it might be a few days before you can, but would you do me a favor and read thorough the PA code again. That's not how I or someone else read it recently.

I'm not intending to give you or anyone else a hard time. I'd just like everyone to know what the rules are. I'm hopeful most will make an effort to comply once they know what's expected of them.

shelterbuilder
04-07-2007, 15:31
Good day, all...I'm logged on using an OLD computer in NY state that cannot read .pdf files, so I may still be speaking from consummate ignorance (it's been known to happen from time to time). :rolleyes: HOWEVER, reading from the link provided by Shades of Gray to the Pa. Code (135.42 ?), and allowing for changes in semantics from the Code to the posters that appear out in the woods, I would have to say that these are the general regulations to which I have been refering. I say, "general", not the "specific" RGS regs with which I've been dealing for many years at that site.

I think that I need to back up a bit and relate a story that happened near RGS several years ago, to illustrate how frustrating it can be when dealing with a large government agency (PGC, for example). One Sunday in winter, we were in the Gold Mine Rd. parking lot getting ready to have a training run with our sled dogs. Some snowmobilers had gone out before us, and we were waiting for them to get back. A PGC officer pulled in, saw the snowmobiler's trailer, and waited with us until they got back and promptly cited them for snowmobiling before the trail was open to snowmobiling. The offender told the officer that PGC's website had a posting that listed this trail as open on that day's date. No matter, the poster at the parking lot said otherwise, and the citation stood!:(

Moral of story: sometimes, it matters less what's on the website, and more what's on the on-site officer's mind! When in doubt, it is prudent to err on the side of caution.:-?

emerald
04-08-2007, 12:39
After communicating via PMs, shelterbuilder and I have determined that we are in agreement with one another and will refrain from adding to what confusion may already exist by discussing PGC regs in a thread about Eagle's Nest Shelter which is situated on Weiser State Forest, a DCNR, Bureau of Forestry unit.:rolleyes: ;)

I believe I have already posted information to the Rausch Gap Shelter thread sufficient for hikers to determine what PGC expects there. I'll make a note to add the phone number of PGC's nearest office for anyone who may have questions.

fiddlehead
04-08-2007, 22:11
Hello, i know deer view road well but i went up from Auburn when i did the bushwhack. Bushwhacking in PA is ok but of course there's lots of rocks but it's good training for off trail stuff which i've grown to love.
I've seen small chestnut trees up there of course. but they are logging up there and that saddens me. They are small stunted trees to begin with and it just makes it horrible. They say it's for the deer herd but i believe it's for the money. anyway, i'll look for you up there next winter.

Cookerhiker
04-08-2007, 22:28
So I was legal when I stayed there on my November '04 section hike from Boiling Springs to Port Clinton?

emerald
04-08-2007, 23:13
So I was legal when I stayed there on my November '04 section hike from Boiling Springs to Port Clinton?

The type of question you ask is why I wished we had not gone down this path. Since I'm at least in part to be blamed for encouraging it, I'll attempt an answer to your question only. If you stayed at Eagle's Nest Shelter, the PGC regs didn't apply, since you were on Weiser State Forest, not State Game Lands.

If you're referring to hammocking or tenting somewhere on State Game Lands within 200 feet of the A.T. and 500 feet or more from any spring, stream or public access area, I believe you were likely also legal since you were a through hiker as defined by PA code at that time as I understand things, but I am neither a lawyer or LEO. Hikers should be advised there are other places camping is prohibited on SGL, but these should be posted.

You can follow my link above to read the PA Code and read a page of PGC regs similar to what you will see posted, but as shelterbuilder pointed out, hikers should pay attention to what's posted when they get out in the woods.

emerald
04-08-2007, 23:18
To avoid confusing someone, let's please limit discussion in this thread to Eagles Nest Shelter from this point forward.

Tractor
08-04-2007, 11:01
Spring at Eagles Nest about dry, 8/2/07. If heading north find good water another 200 yrds or so past dried up Sand Spring to the left - follow blue blazes. It's a haul but the water is there as of 8/2 anyways. t

emerald
08-04-2007, 12:11
The last post could be confusing to someone unfamiliar with this area. Sand Spring Trail is by the A.T. south of the blue-blazed access trail to Eagle's Nest Shelter. NOBOs intending to overnight at ENS wanting to ensure they have sufficient water would need to make a decision about obtaining water at Sand Spring before reaching ENS or backtrack quite some distance.

I'd suggest thru-hikers (as defined in PA Code linked above) cook near the A.T.-Sand Spring Trail junction (on SGL #110), tent somewhere north of there on SGL or Weiser State Forest and start for Port Clinton early in the day before it's hot and not use ENS unless a thunderstorm is expected.

The obvious campsite just beyond the PGC service road to the left for a NOBO hiker is situated in an intermittently wet area which is clear to an observant hiker who notes the presence of sphagnum moss. Not a good spot to camp -- especially in a storm.

501 Shelter, Hertlein Campsite, Port Clinton and Eckville are better places to spend the night in summer, since water is more readily available at those locations.

July in The Green Diamond this year was slightly drier, although almost a degree cooler than normal, so, yes, we could use some thunderstorms.

c.coyle
08-04-2007, 14:00
... I believe the code indicates who PGC considers to be a through hiker on SGL. ...

Is this what you're looking for? This is at the PGC lot on Route 325 at Clark's Creek, between Peters Mountain and Rausch Gap shelters

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/2/9/100_2445.JPG

emerald
08-04-2007, 15:22
Thanks, Coyle. My links above are still good. There's a PGC *.pdf file linked that covers their regs, but of course links to documents off-site download faster with a broadband connection.

BMECC shelter threads could stand editing to make them easier to understand. It's hard enough for those familiar with this area to express clearly what we'd like to call to the attention of hikers new to this area.

Maybe someone from PA A.T. clubs should write an article about things that are different from what might be expected by hikers from other locations? It's all clearly explained in the guide book.;)

I've thought a PA sign gallery on BMECC's site might be a good idea. SATC might want to consider that idea.

shelterbuilder
09-09-2007, 17:57
This is an old thread, but I'll use it rather than start a new one. Yesterday, Shades of Gray and I (along with another certified sawyer from BMECC) went in to Eagle's Nest Shelter to re-open the vista on the north side of the ridge behind the shelter. We had started this project back in July, but couldn't finish it in one day. It had been almost 20 years since the vista had been opened, and we had to do some serious cutting to get back to the way it had been. Working on a 30* slope in a rockfield was no fun, but it's done. Twenty years from now, someone else can do it!;)

Marta
09-09-2007, 18:30
Eagle's Nest is an awesome shelter. I was there last year during a tremendous thunderstorm, with high winds and close lightning. I like the design--with strong beams overhead and a big enough overhang to keep rain from blowing in. An excellent place.

Marta/Five-Leaf

shelterbuilder
09-09-2007, 18:37
Eagle's Nest is an awesome shelter. I was there last year during a tremendous thunderstorm, with high winds and close lightning. I like the design--with strong beams overhead and a big enough overhang to keep rain from blowing in. An excellent place.

Marta/Five-Leaf

Large logs make a shelter that feels very secure. We had a lot of fun building that one. The only nails in the whole thing are the ones that hold down the floorboards, and the ones that hold down the roof! The rest of the shelter is held together with wooden dowel pins - and by gravity!:D We get some high winds up there sometimes, but inside it's nice and dry.

ki0eh
09-09-2007, 21:40
I've thought a PA sign gallery on BMECC's site might be a good idea. SATC might want to consider that idea.

What do you mean by a "sign gallery"? I'm the SATC webmaster and always looking for feedback and ideas, although my web skills are pretty rudimentary... as you can see on http://www.satc-hike.org

emerald
09-09-2007, 22:29
A page of digital images depicting regulatory signs posted along the A.T. It might be an easy way for hikers planning a hike to acquaint themselves with the regs they are expected to follow on the A.T. before they depart.

Your maintenance responsibility might be limited to SGLs. I don't know. Farther east -- I'm thinking of BMECC's portion of the A.T. -- it crosses from one management unit into another fairly often.

If a sign gallery could be executed in such a way that it would help hikers to compare how the rules differ, it might be the most simple way to convey the basic information required and communicate the differences that exist.

Alternatively, a chart could help in comparing and contrasting what's expected in one location versus another.

I believe in carrying the PA guide books and maps, but the signs aren't seen until in the field and may be torn down.

I want to take a look at how this information is presented in ALDHA's Companion. I believe few thruhikers carry guide books anymore.

shelterbuilder
09-10-2007, 14:22
What do you mean by a "sign gallery"? I'm the SATC webmaster and always looking for feedback and ideas, although my web skills are pretty rudimentary... as you can see on http://www.satc-hike.org

Hey, ki0eh, I logged onto SATC's website this morning afer I got home...you are to be commended for the astounding amount of information that you've assembled there. :banana :banana :banana Three out of a possible four dancing bananas!

emerald
10-18-2007, 21:47
On Monday, October 1, Pennsylvania DCNR's fall burning prohibition began and extends through Saturday, December 1. Open fires are not permitted during this time on at least state forests. The applicable Pennsylvania code appears below:

21.62. Open fires.
(a) Subject to the prohibition in subsection (b), small campfires are permitted only where adequate precautions are taken to prevent the spread of fire into the forest. All other fires are prohibited. Campfires shall be attended at all times.
(b) Open fires are prohibited when the forest-fire danger is determined by the District Forester to be High, Very High or Extreme and from March 1 through May 25 and from October 1 through December 1 without authorization from the District Forester or a designee. This prohibition does not apply to small self-contained camp stoves when used in a safe manner.
(c) A person causing a wildfire, in addition to possible criminal penalty, is liable for all damages, costs of extinction and fines.

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 21:49
you have a weird obsession with fires

shelterbuilder
10-19-2007, 06:26
you have a weird obsession with fires

Ever seen a wildfire - up close and personal?:( Ever seen the damage that a wildfire can do?:( Ever helped put one out?:eek: Ever helped to repair the structural damage afterward?:mad:

Lone Wolf
10-19-2007, 06:28
4 yes, 1 no. a burnt down shelter is a good thing.

shelterbuilder
10-19-2007, 06:40
4 yes, 1 no. a burnt down shelter is a good thing.

Privies, too?

Lone Wolf
10-19-2007, 06:42
yes. privies suck too

shelterbuilder
10-19-2007, 06:49
yes. privies suck too

OH, SO YOU'RE THE ONE WHO TORCHED THE OLD PRIVY AT RAUSCH GAP SHELTER???:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

THANKS, BUDDY!!!

Lone Wolf
10-19-2007, 06:57
OH, SO YOU'RE THE ONE WHO TORCHED THE OLD PRIVY AT RAUSCH GAP SHELTER???:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

THANKS, BUDDY!!!

nope. i'm no arsonist but your buddy that keeps posting about fire regs. in PA might be

shelterbuilder
10-19-2007, 06:59
nope. i'm no arsonist but your buddy that keeps posting about fire regs. in PA might be

He's just trying to make sure that I don't have to go out and re-build any more privies!:D

Peanut
11-13-2008, 11:57
Hi everyone!! I am looking at a section hike that will include a night at Eagle's Nest Shelter, in a couple weeks, and I was wondering if anyone had been out there recently and knows how the water source currently looks. When I thru hiked this year, I remember it looking like it was going to go dry soon. Any help would be wonderful! Thanks!!

emerald
11-13-2008, 14:49
I haven't been to ENS recently, but I can tell you it's raining 20 miles from there as the crow flies. Berks is 0.9 inches below normal for the last 30 days, there's been no rain in the last week and about an inch is expected to fall there today.

Whether or not Yeich Spring will provide for your needs depends to a large extent upon how much rain falls between now and then and when. I am sure you can find water on Sand Spring Trail if it's dry.

Please be advised, no fires are permitted at Eagle's Nest Shelter until after December 1.

shelterbuilder
11-14-2008, 09:17
Hi everyone!! I am looking at a section hike that will include a night at Eagle's Nest Shelter, in a couple weeks, and I was wondering if anyone had been out there recently and knows how the water source currently looks. When I thru hiked this year, I remember it looking like it was going to go dry soon. Any help would be wonderful! Thanks!!

There's been some rain, but it may not be enough just yet. The closest dependable water source to Eagle's Nest Shelater would be the LOWER Sand Spring. The trail down to Sand Spring and Lower Sand Spring (same trail) comes off of the AT about 1 1/4 miles south of the trail to the shelter, so it'll be a long carry. Sand Spring is a large, deep empoundment that's only about 10 minutes or so off of the main trail, but it this is dry, then follow the blue trail down from there another 20 minutes or so. The trail is ROCKY, so be prepared. (You may want to drop your pack shortly afer leavbing the upper spring to move faster.) The spring will be off to your right in a small grove of hemlock trees. (If you miss the turn and come to a stream crossing, ya went too far!)

BTW, don't bother trying to follow the ravine downhill that carries the water from Yeich's Spring near the shelter. Shortly after the access trail crosses the ravine, any available water goes underground for about 3/4 mile down an extremely steep grade. You have to go almost all the way down the mountain before it reappears.

jfarrell04
11-14-2008, 09:56
We walked thru this area a couple of weeks ago (last week of October), and while the Eagles Nest spring (Yeich?) was dry, we were told that if you went ~400 ft. down the ravine you could get water. As we were already five miles north of the shelter when we got this info., we didn't check this out, so I cannot verify that it's accurate info.

rafe
11-14-2008, 10:22
Eagle's Nest is an awesome shelter. I was there last year during a tremendous thunderstorm, with high winds and close lightning. I like the design--with strong beams overhead and a big enough overhang to keep rain from blowing in. An excellent place.

Terrapin rating:
1. Site: a decent distance (0.2 miles?) from trail. Quiet. Flat. Ample tenting opportunity. No road nearby.
2. Water: Small creek on shelter approach path. Creek was dry in August 2007.
3. Structure: Simple, solid, nothing special. Reasonably well maintained. Ample overhang. Picnic table (not covered.)
4. Fire pit: I must have missed it. It was too hot for a fire, in any case.

emerald
11-14-2008, 13:50
BTW, don't bother trying to follow the ravine downhill that carries the water from Yeich's Spring near the shelter. Shortly after the access trail crosses the ravine, any available water goes underground for about 3/4 mile down an extremely steep grade. You have to go almost all the way down the mountain before it reappears.


We walked thru this area a couple of weeks ago (last week of October), and while the Eagles Nest spring (Yeich?) was dry, we were told that if you went ~400 ft. down the ravine you could get water. As we were already five miles north of the shelter when we got this info., we didn't check this out, so I cannot verify that it's accurate info.

There's a big difference between hearsay and what shelterbuilder has posted. He and I began working on ENS and on-site before the shelter was airlifted there more than 20 years ago. No one has spent more time there than Dave and I doubt anyone knows the site better. Don't expect to find water anywhere other than where the access trail crosses Yeich Spring or just uphill from it.

Imagine what would happen if 100s of people a year followed this hearsay advice when Yeich Spring is dry where the access trail crosses it. There is no trail because there is no reason to go downhill in search of water. Over time the accumulated resource damage would not be insignificant.

jfarrell04
11-14-2008, 14:32
Hey what a coincidence.........I don't know Shades of Gray either!!!.

I second his advice though. Shelterbuilder was kind enough to provide me and my party with excellent water advice for this entire area prior to our section hike last month and he was right on the mark. I'm sure that he knows the area better than me. I was just passing on what I had heard from folks that had stayed at the shelter the nite before we passed. If you're there and need water, it sounds like it might be worth a look a couple hundred feet down the gully to see if there is any water...........if you don't have the inclination to do so, pass on by!!! We ended up bivying on top of the hill heading north, near the Philips Canyon Spring trail (this spring was also dry). We collected rain/melting snow water off the roof of the tarp that nite!!!

emerald
11-14-2008, 14:50
I don't know Shades of Gray either!!!

You can learn almost as much about me as anyone knows from my more than 3000 posts. I am not unknown to WhiteBlaze readers.

It is best to avoid posting unverified information here. We have enough already.

shelterbuilder
11-14-2008, 22:15
We walked thru this area a couple of weeks ago (last week of October), and while the Eagles Nest spring (Yeich?) was dry, we were told that if you went ~400 ft. down the ravine you could get water. As we were already five miles north of the shelter when we got this info., we didn't check this out, so I cannot verify that it's accurate info.

Hey, if folks want to go rock scrambling down there, go for it, but, IN MY EXPERIENCE in this area, it makes more sense to go a few hundred feet UPHILL to look for dipping pools. For some reason, though, the geology of the area dictates that, in dry weather, once you've gone a few hundred feet downstream from the access trail, the water just dissappears. Walking 400 downstream here is an exercise in masochism.:eek:

Now, there is another weak water source up there, but I usually don't mention it because I don't want to be accused of trying to get people lost. The shelter site sits on a fat little finger of land between Yeich's Spring (the main water source) and Greisinger's Spring, run-off from both of which have cut sizable ravines into the topography. Greisinger's ravine (and any run-off from the spring) can be found by standing with your back to the front of the shelter and walking a minute or so away from the shelter. As you walk, you will come to a white-blazed boundary-trail between State Forest Land (on which the shelter rests) and State Game Lands. (NOTE: the blazes are splotches, not rectangles, and face the centerline of the trail and NOT the direction of travel.) If you turn right on this POORLY maintained trail and walk for about 7 - 10 minutes, you'll find yourself looking down into Greisinger's ravine. Run-off from these two sources EVENTUALLY flow together and become one stream, but it is WAY DOWN the mountain, and a farther walk down than I would recommend to anyone. Personally, I just don't like rock-hopping in an isolated ravine. In my book, it's an invitation to disaster.:eek:

shelterbuilder
08-08-2009, 22:14
I suppose that I should have made this post a few weeks ago, but I've had other things on my mind.

For those of you who know how to "poop in the woods" without the benefit of a throne, this message will not affect you (except perhaps to ellicit a small chuckle on behalf of those who do NOT know how).

For the rest of you, my condolences: the economy has claimed it's first composting toilet!!!:eek: Because our bark chip supplier of over 20 years has gone out of business, BMECC had been forced to temporarily close the composting privy at the Eagle's Nest Shelter in Pa. This has been done after consulting with ATC (yep, they aren't happy about it, either, but they DO know about it). We are trying to find another supplier so that we can re-open the privy, but, for the time being, if you visit the site, please use proper catholing procedures (away from water sources and areas that are used by people).

Or, perhaps you can avoid using the site at all by asking yourself: "WWLWD?" (sorry, i couldn't resist):D:rolleyes:

J-Rod
05-05-2010, 09:37
I stayed at the EN shelter late march ....plenty f water near by you pass right over it going to the shelter ...
the shelter looked great and was nice and clean ...

we had a great time there and can't wait to go back

emerald
05-05-2010, 14:40
The privy is open for business again per my latest communication on the subject with shelterbuilder.

slugger
09-13-2010, 15:02
Spent 9-11-2010 here. shelter is clean and in great condition. The new roof looks great and the privy was nice. Spring was dry but the registry noted that you can find puddles uphill that are stagnant but water non the less. Lot of firewood at the pit and a picnic tables at both the shelter and camping area are in good condition.

Crash
09-14-2010, 13:44
Or, perhaps you can avoid using the site at all by asking yourself: "WWLWD?" (sorry, i couldn't resist):D:rolleyes:

Isn't it "what would Earl Shaffer do?:-?

eggs
07-05-2011, 11:16
Privy is up to the seat. Mice have taken over the shelter. Picnic table is in bad shape with broken boards.

emerald
07-05-2011, 14:22
Swat in the woods and properly dispose of your own feces. Bring mouse traps. Don't eat at shelters, it only draws mice and gives people something to complain about online.

I'd suggest you email BMECC to voice your concerns, but it seems you have already broadcast them to the world. Someone who may be able to respond to your complaints will see them.

eggs
07-07-2011, 08:07
Not sure I consider it complaining. I had a tent. I Had a shovel. I only sleep in the shelters in winter or if no one else in around since I snore.

But the title for this forum section seems to be and I quote

"Forum: AT Shelters & Lean-tos Share your shelter experiences, and discuss any issues related to shelters."

I suspect my original comments would fall under the 'any Issues' category



Here is the sign leading to the shelter No I did not write on it.

http://erickpanger.com/AT%20section%20501-309/album/slides/P1020190.jpg

Pedaling Fool
07-07-2011, 08:29
The privy is open for business again per my latest communication on the subject with shelterbuilder.


Privy is up to the seat. Mice have taken over the shelter. Picnic table is in bad shape with broken boards.
So I'm just curious is this the average time it takes for a privy to fill up? Is the privy at this shelter the "mouldering" type? I imagine then the ones in Georgia fill up quicker.

Pedaling Fool
07-07-2011, 08:45
Wow! When I quoted the two above posts I had it in my mind that 2 years had passed, but it's only one year:confused: Do privies really fill up that fast?

emerald
07-07-2011, 19:29
John, the short answer is some do and much of the work on the A.T. is done by volunteers who have jobs, families and many other responsibilities. When something needing attention is identified, the respectful thing to do is to email the appropriate A.T. maintaining club. Contact information is available on ATC's website.

There really is little to discuss and this is an old thread. Much water has run off the mountain and gone to sea since this thread began.

If someone really wants to discuss privies and their management, it would be best to start another thread where those interested can find the information.

I don't know what purpose the posted image is meant to serve unless it's intended to point out that some hikers just don't get it. The purpose of shelters and privies is to manage impacts to resources.

This shelter was built .3 off the A.T. for a reason. Its privy was not meant to be a public restroom, but rather to reduce catholes in the area immediately surrounding the shelter created by through hikers who stay overnight.

ki0eh
07-07-2011, 22:04
I don't think a condition report such as observing that a privy is full is out of order in a specific area discussion thread on WB. E-mail is very unreliable these days at getting a message through since they can mysteriously disappear if some bot thinks you are sending spam with no notice to sender. It's surely more relevant to the Trail than nearly everything else that appears on WB. Hearing about an issue is a necessary first step toward fixing it. It's also been my experience as a trail maintainer that folks are more likely to be too reticent at reporting conditions that could be addressed rather than too quick to complain. A simple statement that something could be addressed shouldn't be taken as either denying or disrespecting the volunteer maintenance system.

Pedaling Fool
07-08-2011, 08:27
Emerald, you seem so miserable. How do you keep going...

1azarus
03-20-2012, 14:08
thanks, all... your mention of hiking on the State Game Lands has me planning a loop to the Eagles Nest Shelter, instead of retracing my steps. much appreciate your collective knowledge.