View Full Version : Best Freezer Bag For Freezer Bag Cooking?
headchange4u
06-01-2006, 20:00
I was testing a cozy made from a sunshade from a car using a Wal-Mart brand 1 quart freezer bag with the zip style close. I filled the bag half full of boiling water and squeezed out extra air. I checked after a half hour to see how well the cozy was keeping in heat and the bag was leaking just a little bit.
Is there a better bag to use for freezer bag cooking? Are the bags that press close (yellow and blue make green Ziplock) or are the zip style closers better? Do name brand freezer bag hold any advantages over generic?
Thanks.
Ziploc and Glad bags are the best out there. The Walmart and Target brand ones are not as thick nor as durable.
Just Jeff
06-01-2006, 22:30
The zipper style can leak at the end of the zipper - not good when you need to shake or knead.
one key item in the way I use the bags is to not zip them up all the way - that way the expansion of the air as it heats up won't increase the pressure in the bag and thus its possible to use really cheap bags - I use store brand sandwich bags sometimes
obviously the other key item is to have a cozy that holds the bag upright while waiting for the food to cook
Ziploc ez-fill bags qt size. They have a wide bottom and "stand up and open" making it easier to add water and stir the contents. Very stable and no melting problems.
Footslogger
06-02-2006, 08:38
Dumb question here ...but is the main purpose of the freezer bag cooking to lower the mess in your cook pot ? Or am I missing someting. Reason for asking is that generally prepackage my meals in the freezer strength zip locks anyway but never thought about cooking in them. I use them to organize my meals and then they become my trash bags.
'Slogger
bigcranky
06-02-2006, 08:56
'Slogger,
I don't know if less cleanup is the "main purpose" of freezer bag meals, but it sure is a nice side benefit. Freezer bag meals need to be designed so you can just add boiling water, stick the bag in a cozy, and wait 5-10 minutes. Then you eat right from the bag (preferably using a long-handled spoon of some sort). I make my own because I like the convenience, and I get to choose the ingredients to match my diet (low sodium, etc.). I use stuff like couscous and pre-cooked dehydrated pasta that rehydrates well. There are lots of ideas at the freezerbagcooking web site (google it).
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-02-2006, 09:38
Since several who use freezer bag cooking are participating, I have a question. Has anyone tried 'cooking' homemade ground whole grain cereal using this method? I generally boil it for a couple of minutes and then let it sit covered until cool enough to eat. Would it stay hot long enough to soften up the grains?
FD - can't be any worse than cooking ordinary macaroni and I do that often enough - 4 ounces uncooked macaroni + 1.75 cups boiling water and wait 30 minutes - the cozy I use keeps the meals very warm if I leave them covered - even after cooking the food usually stays warm/hot for another 30+ minutes in the cozy with the lid off - fortunately its easy to cool off a meal bag - pull it out of the cozy and dunk it in some water.
Just Jeff
06-02-2006, 10:55
I'm just getting into FBC, but here are the advantages I see:
- Cheaper than prepared backpacking meals
- Less packaging weight (and therefore garbage) than most prepared meals
- I get to customize my menu and choose the ingredients
- My kids can choose their own menus and it's no extra work at camp
- Very easy to make (just boil the water for most recipes)
- Even easier to clean up
- I can use a much lighter Foster's can for my pot, instead of a heavier pot. I really haven't decided if I'm going to replace my JetBoil with the alcohol setup, though - the JB is so dern convenient!
And it's kinda like making my own gear...I'm one step further away from the slick advertising.
. I really haven't decided if I'm going to replace my JetBoil with the alcohol setup, though - the JB is so dern convenient!
so you cook dinner and eat in 10 minutes or less, now what are you gonna do the rest of the evening :-?
Just Jeff
06-02-2006, 11:23
Watch everyone else eat?
It's more than just speed with the JB, though. I'm still playing with the alkie stove...we'll see. :)
stoikurt
06-02-2006, 12:07
I just spent 4 nights on the trail last week in the Roan Mountains outside of Erwin, TN. I did freezer bag cooking with a coke can alcohol stove and WalMart grease pot for boiling. It was very easy. The only clean-up was my cup and spoon. I used Target and WalMart freezer bags without any problem. I did the evening meals for myself and 2 others and the big hit was the Shepherd's Pie that I mentioned in another post a few weeks ago. We also had Chicken with Turkey Gravy and Dressing, Curried Rice with Shrimp and Perk's Beef Stroganoff, all from Sarbar's Freezer Bag Cooking page. I modified the last 2 from the given recipe (but that's the beauty of it - you can customize to your taste or supplies) and all were quite good. Thanks, Sarbar, for a great site and new way of eating on the trail.
I made a cozy out of bubble mylar windshield heat reflector. It sews easily. I made it about 8X8 or just big enough to store my tortillas inside while hiking. Cut it about 2 times plus 2 inches longer than it is wide. Fold it over and sew up the sides. Sew a piece of binding over the edge if you want it to look a little nicer. Fold the flap over and use sticky back velcro for securing the flap. At home it kept boiled water quite hot for over 30 minutes.
PS: And for those on low sodium diets (yeah, there are too many of us out here!), if you haven't been to my othe site, come take a look. I did an overhaul last week, and added quite a bit more:
http://www.freewebs.com/healthytrailfood/lowsodium.htm
Most recipes are FB style, but some are traditional style. I added a way to make Faux Hamburger Helper low sodium yesterday :)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-02-2006, 14:51
Sarbar, excellent additions to your site.
headchange4u
06-02-2006, 16:15
Sarbar's site is awsome. It was what inspired me to start using FBC. The recipes on the site sound really good.
My wife and I are going camping this weekend and we decided to use FBC this time out (will be using my newly made cat alky stove :)). We picked five recipes from the site and are going to make enough to give to our friends who are going with us. Maybe they will be FBC converts after this weekend.
Which ones did you pick? :)
Blue Jay
06-02-2006, 17:28
I'm just getting into FBC, but here are the advantages I see:
- Cheaper than prepared backpacking meals
- Less packaging weight (and therefore garbage) than most prepared meals
- I get to customize my menu and choose the ingredients
- My kids can choose their own menus and it's no extra work at camp
- Very easy to make (just boil the water for most recipes)
- Even easier to clean up
- I can use a much lighter Foster's can for my pot, instead of a heavier pot. I really haven't decided if I'm going to replace my JetBoil with the alcohol setup, though - the JB is so dern convenient!
I know I'm throwing hot water on this, and certainly you all can do what you wish but there are at least two disadvantages. One, freezer bags are not designed for boiling water, some chemicals can and will leach out. I know most people don't care. Two, I have seen some very bad scalds from this method of cooking, plastic bags are less stable than metal pots. Granted I sometimes use alcohol stoves and I have seen many hikers without eyebrows due to the invisible flames from alcohol. Again I'm not saying don't do this, just that very few things have only advantages, without at least some disadvantages of which you should be aware.
I know I'm throwing hot water on this, and certainly you all can do what you wish but there are at least two disadvantages. One, freezer bags are not designed for boiling water, some chemicals can and will leach out. I know most people don't care. Two, I have seen some very bad scalds from this method of cooking, plastic bags are less stable than metal pots. Granted I sometimes use alcohol stoves and I have seen many hikers without eyebrows due to the invisible flames from alcohol. Again I'm not saying don't do this, just that very few things have only advantages, without at least some disadvantages of which you should be aware.
*Ahem* for those with chemical issues, here is the deal-you don't want to use freezer bags? Fine, use Food Vac bags-they are rated to be put in actual boiling water, and boiled for near forever. But anyhoo, freezer bags are food grade, and are rated for use in microwaves - which can easily produce boiling temps if not watched. The water you put in a freezer bag is not boiling once you remove it from the stove. It is right below it.
As for "chemical leaching", if you make food in a plastic mug, you are using plastic. Same if you use Lexan bottles. You are exposed to plastic in many ways. If you fear plastic and chemicals, then by all means, ONLY prepare your food in a metal pan, with a metal spoon. No nonstick pans either ;)
As for scalding, that is why I have a "common sense disclaimer" on our website. The obvious of holding the bag with one hand while pouring with the other, not doing it in your lap, ect. Simply by doing that one can avoid 99.99% of problems. I have yet to see anyone I hike with pour water on themselves.
Oddly enough, I was a barista for 9 years and poured scalding water on my hands hundreds (if not thousands of time) and I have no scars. Water from an espresso machine is hotter than any campstove can produce.
I am not knocking your views, just pointing out other views. Every form of cooking has a risk-and one has to take the risks they want to.
headchange4u
06-03-2006, 00:00
sarbar,
As of right now I have made brownies (of course), chessy couse couse, Morning potatoes, sushi bowl, and clam chowder. I plan on making some Thai/curry based recipes in the morning before leaving. I will report back and let you know which one I liked best.
Two, I have seen some very bad scalds from this method of cooking, plastic bags are less stable than metal pots.
wrt the possible damger of scalding while pouring the hot water into the bag - if that is a concern for you then use a cozy that holds the bag upright and open without having to hold onto the bag - here is a picture of the type of cozy I am talking about : http://www.cloudwalkersbasecamp.com/hoikit.jpg - its just a piece of duct taped CCF pad but it has a flat bottom and the top is sized to hold the bag open without holding it with your hand.
Fiddleback
06-03-2006, 10:28
and...
using my alcohol soda can stove, the water I pour into the freezer bags is never at a boil...the fuel burns out before I get to a roiling boil. From the many tests I've done, the water temp peaks at 185° and is often, if not most times, well under that high. This results in a temp very close to what at least one manufacturer suggests is a temp that eliminates the concern for chemical leaching for their less heat resistant baggies.
I started doing FBC for breakfasts back in the early '80s and now, all my hot meals are prepared that way. I've never had a bag fail...I've never burned myself. I may be lucky, extra careful, or both but I'm sure I'm not the only one.
With care, scalds and bag failures are not a worry. Just as with care, scrorching food in a pot or fry pan isn't a worry.
FB
Another option is to use a outdoor pipe insulator (the boob shaped ones that go on your hose faucet in winter). We use them in winter as a cozy. We found ones that have a flat bottom. The bag sits upright in it. So does using the plastic lemonade cozies that some build.
LostInSpace
06-03-2006, 15:20
I recently returned from a week-long backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon where we used freezer bags for all our dinners, both commercial freeze-dried and home prepared.
My hiking partner and I determined that we need three servings of commercial dinners, or the homemade equivalent. Nobody sells three serving packages. So, I bought some four-serving and two-serving packages. The four-serving packages actually contain two two-serving packages in plastic bags. I divided a two-serving package in half and combined each half with another two-serving package. I put the resulting three servings into a gallon size Glad zipper style Ziploc. These take up much less space than the commercial packaging because they are more flexible.
For a “cozy”, I saved one of the foil-plastic pouches from a four-serving package and rolled it up. After adding enough boiling water for three servings to the freezer bag, it fit nicely into the cozy. We reused the same cozy for all meals.
Worked out great!
Fiddleback
06-03-2006, 20:47
Hey Sarbar! I want a boob-shaped one with a flat bottom!! :D
Seriously, you gave me the idea for the...uhhh...rounder one some time ago but this flat-bottomed one sounds like an improvment. Where did you find it...does it have a brand name...etc?
FB
The flat ones, my buddy found them at Walmart, of all places. They have a hard plastic shell (not heavy, just hard) over the body.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a308/NWHikergirl/DCP_0028.jpg
My first time using the freeezer bag method, (lipton noodles & sauce) I got lazy, didn't bring the water to boiling, just to a light simmer. VERY VERY chewy food, and a heinekan pot don't work very well to reheat. My 2nd attempt, (Kraft Mac & cheese)worked very well: Boiling (not simmering) water, 1.5 cups water, put the whole thing in a cozy & wait. Add cheese powder, YUM!
BTW: I added about 1/2 cup too much water to the noodles & sauce, so I had Noodles & sauce soup.
Thanks sarbar for a wonderful way to cook on the trail.
Doctari.
Fiddleback
06-04-2006, 10:44
Thanks, Sarbar. I've seen those 'plastic' insulators but don't remember the flat side. I'll keep an eye out for 'em when the season starts. Which, here, is in three months.:cool:
FB
headchange4u
06-04-2006, 23:16
Well my first outing with FBC had it's good and bad points and no I did not scald myself.
The food I cooked was abolutely delicous! Everything I cooked was really great and was a big hit with everybody.
The bad part was the bags. I went out and bought some Ziplock Double zipper seal freezer bags (I could not find the Eazypour). The seal at the top held fine but I had 2 bags leak at the bottom when pouring in the water to make the meal. It was like boiling water made the seams come loose. Water was not pouring out but there was a steady drip. I turned the bags upside down (top seal held), cleanedarea around leak and then applied a small peice of tape. The Walmart brand bag only leaked around the zipper in the top. I am going to try another brand and see what happens.
Doctari,
I accidentaly added 2 cups of water instead of 1 cup to my bag of Sasquatch's Potatoes! It made a mighty tasty soup!!!
The flat ones, my buddy found them at Walmart, of all places. They have a hard plastic shell (not heavy, just hard) over the body.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a308/NWHikergirl/DCP_0028.jpg
I've also seen these at Home Depot and Lowes. Last year I got one without the plastic on the outside--is was the last one in the bin. Much lighter. Either way they're good carry cases for an alky stove too.
Be sure and verify both height & width requirements for you setup before hitting the trail. Some of these rigid foam faucet covers aren't tell enough if you use Lipton/Knorr packages. (Love the cajun rice with beans.) It's easy enough to incorporate an extension as part of the lid/cover-flap though.
Doug Frost
Instead of wading up last nights used bag, save it and use it as a liner. The multiple layers will give added protection against leaks.
Also, for those that are worried about cooking times for pasta or beans.. Try adding 1/2 the normal quantity of water to start. Let the cozy (CCF is best) cook for 10-15 minutes then add the balance of the hot or boiling water and let it cook till tender. It has worked for me with raw bean soups that take 30 minutes on the stove at home.
Mouse Poo
07-25-2006, 09:52
My son and I went on a weekend scout hike. We loved doing FBC. I just used a piece of a mylar emergency blanket folded around the bags and it worked great. Very little weight but I'm going to check out the pipe insulators as I'd like to have the bag sitting up just in case.
My son and I went on a weekend scout hike. We loved doing FBC. I just used a piece of a mylar emergency blanket folded around the bags and it worked great. Very little weight but I'm going to check out the pipe insulators as I'd like to have the bag sitting up just in case.
MP, If you can still find them, the older (now discontinued) version of the Oriska plate works great as a summer FB holder :) Holds it perfectly upright, with little weight (1 ounce) and they fold flat. And cheap too!
Skidsteer
07-25-2006, 18:49
My son and I went on a weekend scout hike. We loved doing FBC. I just used a piece of a mylar emergency blanket folded around the bags and it worked great. Very little weight but I'm going to check out the pipe insulators as I'd like to have the bag sitting up just in case.
Check out the Wal-Mart fishing aisle for these (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=super-gro+bait+box&hl=en&lr=&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=title) as well.
Fiddleback
07-25-2006, 19:51
The chemical issue, i.e., leaching due to 'boiling' water in freezer bags, may not be much of an issue. Some, if not all manufacturers list 'safe' temperatures for their baggies that exceed what many/most FBC'ers pour into their baggies.
I never get 'boiling' water into my baggie from my kettle and soda can stove combo. My testing shows initial temps from the pouring to be 165° - 175° followed by a drop off; well under the manufacturers' parameters that I've seen. And the food cooks well and stays very hot with that starting temp.
Bottom line for me: There may or may not be an issue with chemical leaching from baggies and boiling water (tbd). But boiling water never makes it into my baggie.
FB
The chemical issue, i.e., leaching due to 'boiling' water in freezer bags, may not be much of an issue. Some, if not all manufacturers list 'safe' temperatures for their baggies that exceed what many/most FBC'ers pour into their baggies.
I never get 'boiling' water into my baggie from my kettle and soda can stove combo. My testing shows initial temps from the pouring to be 165° - 175° followed by a drop off; well under the manufacturers' parameters that I've seen. And the food cooks well and stays very hot with that starting temp.
Bottom line for me: There may or may not be an issue with chemical leaching from baggies and boiling water (tbd). But boiling water never makes it into my baggie.
FB
That is pretty much what I noticed also. My water has been boiled, but by the time it hits my food, in the bag, it has cooled down. Still hot enough to "cook" your food. Another is that many bags are rated for microwave use - and those get hotter than the water you are pouring in.
Sarah
I have a vacuum food sealer. How do I add my water. To add water I have to cut the bag then I can't close it. I think this would let out a lot of heat. Can I add the water during the sealing process, then i put bag in boiling water then cozy. Then cut open bag.
you could always fold it over and put a paper clip on it. That will keep the heat in.
I saw a post or magazine article about a new vacuum sealer that uses bags that can be opened and closed back just like a ziploc.
the cozy that I have has a top that you can put the folded down top of the bag under - no need for a paper clip or anything other than a rock or water bottle to hold the top of the cozy down
dragonfly
07-26-2006, 10:06
We use zip-loc freezer bags, NOT the one-zip ones. We've had trouble getting them to stay zipped. Sometimes when you run the little zipper head across, the bag doesn't zip. Not good.
My husband made cozies out of this stuff he bought at Home Depot or Lowe's--it looks like plastic bubble wrap with aluminim foil laminated to each side. He also uses foil tape to make various sized bags. Most of them are shaped like envelopes, with a fold-over flap (and a Velcro dot closure). They're pretty good stuff.
We've also used them on dayhikes and on the first day out of town as mini-coolers to keep fresh stuff (or leftover steak--yum!) cold.
Just Jeff
07-26-2006, 11:12
Even when they close correctly, the one-zip bags leak out the corner where the zipper ends. We use them at home but I never take them hiking.
The bubble wrap foil stuff is called Reflectix. It's about $1/ft at the hardware store.
With Food Vac bags I use a clip for the top-though you can get commercial bags that have a ziploc closure. They need a commecial sealer-they sell them on Ebay. The bags run about 15-25 cents each, and you can buy them in lots of 100 and up. So it isn't cheap, but it does work.
As for putting in water beforehand, don't! That would cause spoilage :(
As for the bags with zippers..avoid those! They are not good. You want traditional zip-loc style bags.
*Ahem* for those with chemical issues, here is the deal-you don't want to use freezer bags? Fine, use Food Vac bags-they are rated to be put in actual boiling water, and boiled for near forever. But anyhoo, freezer bags are food grade, and are rated for use in microwaves - which can easily produce boiling temps if not watched. The water you put in a freezer bag is not boiling once you remove it from the stove. It is right below it.
As for "chemical leaching", if you make food in a plastic mug, you are using plastic. Same if you use Lexan bottles. You are exposed to plastic in many ways. If you fear plastic and chemicals, then by all means, ONLY prepare your food in a metal pan, with a metal spoon. No nonstick pans either ;)
As for scalding, that is why I have a "common sense disclaimer" on our website. The obvious of holding the bag with one hand while pouring with the other, not doing it in your lap, ect. Simply by doing that one can avoid 99.99% of problems. I have yet to see anyone I hike with pour water on themselves.
Oddly enough, I was a barista for 9 years and poured scalding water on my hands hundreds (if not thousands of time) and I have no scars. Water from an espresso machine is hotter than any campstove can produce.
I am not knocking your views, just pointing out other views. Every form of cooking has a risk-and one has to take the risks they want to.
I'll be ordering your book in a few days. BTW great comeback above.:sun
blackbishop351
07-30-2006, 13:22
I just bought a box of 200+ ziploc double-zip freezer bags at Sam's for about $5. And made my own very cheap very light cozy - posted a thread about it for anybody who cares. Anyway, I've only tried the bags a couple of times, but good results so far. I put the bag in, added water, put the top on (in?) the cozy, and then squished the whole thing around a bit to mix. No leaks. I'm happy :D
stoikurt
07-31-2006, 08:37
[quote=sarbar]
As for putting in water beforehand, don't! That would cause spoilage :([
quote]
Kinda' defeats the purpose, too, don't cha think.
[quote=sarbar]
As for putting in water beforehand, don't! That would cause spoilage :([
quote]
Kinda' defeats the purpose, too, don't cha think.
Not quite sure what you mean???? You are carrying dry meals to save weight, and have no spoilage. If you had meals that had water added in before you left, you'd have an MRE by any other name. Not something one can do safely at home!
Would time in cozy be saved if you added 1/3 the required water before cooking. Sgt. rock does this with his lemonade bowl. Then when cooking, add 2/3 of required water and food should be re-hydrated= less cooking time.
Am I correct in this assumption or just trying to reinvent the wheel.
Camper101
08-03-2006, 13:38
Hello.
I am going hiking on the 18, to the mountains, and it will be really interesting to see something other then flat prairie. However, I do plan to eat all of my cooked meals from Freezer bags. The chemical thing, did get me wondering, and i don't even like using non-stick pots. However the convience of the FBC out wieghs and out measures that of it's disadvantages, in my eyes anyway. Mentioned above, i read vacuum sealer bags are rated for boiling water, taking these chemicals out of the equation? If so I really like this. Not only can you elimanate the chemicals, but make your on measure of bags. I like how this sounds!
Skidsteer
08-03-2006, 18:06
Would time in cozy be saved if you added 1/3 the required water before cooking. Sgt. rock does this with his lemonade bowl. Then when cooking, add 2/3 of required water and food should be re-hydrated= less cooking time.
Am I correct in this assumption or just trying to reinvent the wheel.
I don't know about shortening the cooking time-I've never timed it for comparison. IMO, it definitely gets more water into your food and that's generally a good thing, and especially helpful with meat or beans.
headchange4u
08-09-2006, 10:13
I have been having a slight problem with freezer bag cooking. I was wondering if anyone else has this problem and I want to know how you deal with it.
The problem is that some recipes, especially the ones with powdered dry ingredients, aren't mixing well inside the bag. I am getting chucks of dry goods that are clumping together and not mixing. I made some something with curry in it the other day and my wife got a large chunk of pure green curry when she took a bite of her food. It almost made her sick to her stomach. I have noticed that potatoes sometimes do this as well as soup mixes and things like stuffing.
I have made it a point to mix all the dry ingredients just after I combine them in the bag. I also mix them right before I pour in the water to break up the clumps. I will also mix with a spoon and before putting the bag in the cozy and I will squeeze the bag while it's still wrapped in the cozy. Even with all this mixing I will occasionally get that clump of dry goods.
I have started using the Rubbermaid collapsible bowls (http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/collapsibles/collapsibles.jhtml). These things are great. I love them! I will pour the boiling water in first and then shake in dry ingredients slowly and then mix well, put on lid, and insert into my cozy. This method works great and I have yet to find any chunks. The only drawback to this method is having to dirty up another dish, but if I don't eat everything I can just throw on a lid and take it with me.
Anyone else have this problem and what's your solution?
I have that problem every once in a while. I solved it by using a long spoon that could get down into the corners of the bag and just kept mixing it up
Yep, a long handled spoon works really well. Also, if you are making solid sihes like potatoes, knead the bag a bit after it has cooled a bit (carefully). No issues for me after I got a long spoon. REI is actually carrying the long handled metal ones now!
Anyhoo, I do actually use Rubbermaid Take-A-Long square (sandwich size) with lids on some trips with my son, usually in winter on overnighters, when I want a "dish". This works well if you want to stir up.
As for the question up above, by all means do use Food Vac bags! They are stronger than freezer bags, and yes, are rated for actually being put in boiling water (that means they are rated for being put in a pot of boiling water for a long time). They weigh a bit more and are pricier, but are in some people's eyes a better bet :) I use them about 1/3 of the time-usually if I am prepping home dried meals (I store home dried stuff in the freezer till hiking time).
Sarah
Just Jeff
08-09-2006, 18:59
I put the bag inside the JetBoil measuring cup (the bottom cover for the heat exchanger). It's a bit small, but after a few bites it works great and I don't need to carry an extra piece of gear to make it work. I haven't been carrying a cozy either, btw - mainly b/c I'm too lazy to make one! I just wrap it in a shirt or my quilt while it sits (zipped close, of course), then put it in the JB cup to eat it. It's been working, but I have a piece of Reflectix and some day I'll get around to making one.
headchange4u
08-16-2006, 19:53
I picked up a box of Glad Double Lock freezer bags (NOT double seal. There are 2 different kinds). I must say that I like these much better than the Ziplock bags that I had been using.
The Glad bags are made of a light blue platic that looks like it's reinforced, but the material feels lighter and stronger than the Ziplock bags. The best part is the good 'ol yellow-and-blue-make-green seal. The bags seal very easy to seal and the seal is tight. No leaks.
I have not had any problems with the seams leaking, either. I filled one with water that was at a hard rolling boil when I put it in the bag and it held. This water was much hotter than what I would use if I were using the bags for FBC and it held up fine. I still have the occasional Ziplock bag that will spring a very small leak at the seam if the water is to hot.
So my current champion is the Glad Double Lock freezer bags for FBC.
Headchange...the Glad ones are my favorite also. They are what I usually recomend. Heck, their sandwich bags are tougher than many freezer bags! I actually do my morning oatmeal in Glad sandwich bags (not that I recommend doing it but it works for me ;) )
Brrrb Oregon
08-26-2006, 21:41
The problem is that some recipes, especially the ones with powdered dry ingredients, aren't mixing well inside the bag. I am getting chucks of dry goods that are clumping together and not mixing.
I understand that this is why commercial preparations sometimes contain silicates and the like. Are the clumps there before you pour the water on, or do they only form afterwards?
so you cook dinner and eat in 10 minutes or less, now what are you gonna do the rest of the evening :-?
Man, you are a workin' dog, aren't you?
I made a cozy out of bubble mylar windshield heat reflector. It sews easily. I made it about 8X8 or just big enough to store my tortillas inside while hiking. Cut it about 2 times plus 2 inches longer than it is wide. Fold it over and sew up the sides. Sew a piece of binding over the edge if you want it to look a little nicer. Fold the flap over and use sticky back velcro for securing the flap. At home it kept boiled water quite hot for over 30 minutes.
There is a company that makes quilted fabric for homemade insulating window shades. I think they're called Warm Window or the Warm Company, or something like that. If they are still in business, their fabric would make a toasty cozy.
Couldn't you make also make a Jardine-style "bomber hat" double as a cosy? It seems like about the right size. Maybe we could make something positively designed to work as either one. Even if it were really cold, you'd only have to have it off of your head for ten minutes. It would be plenty toasty when you put it back on. You could reverse it to use, in case you filled it full of stew by accident.
*Ahem* for those with chemical issues, here is the deal-you don't want to use freezer bags? Fine, use Food Vac bags-they are rated to be put in actual boiling water, and boiled for near forever. But anyhoo, freezer bags are food grade, and are rated for use in microwaves - which can easily produce boiling temps if not watched. The water you put in a freezer bag is not boiling once you remove it from the stove. It is right below it.
As for "chemical leaching", if you make food in a plastic mug, you are using plastic. Same if you use Lexan bottles. You are exposed to plastic in many ways. If you fear plastic and chemicals, then by all means, ONLY prepare your food in a metal pan, with a metal spoon. No nonstick pans either ;)
As for scalding, that is why I have a "common sense disclaimer" on our website. The obvious of holding the bag with one hand while pouring with the other, not doing it in your lap, ect. Simply by doing that one can avoid 99.99% of problems. I have yet to see anyone I hike with pour water on themselves.
Oddly enough, I was a barista for 9 years and poured scalding water on my hands hundreds (if not thousands of time) and I have no scars. Water from an espresso machine is hotter than any campstove can produce.
I am not knocking your views, just pointing out other views. Every form of cooking has a risk-and one has to take the risks they want to.
I have asbestos hands, too. It is a gift....a gift that makes my husband curse every time that I run the dishwater before he does the dishes.
A person can certainly be burned in about a second at temperatures over 140 F (60 C), even though that is exactly the temperature at which my kids like to have their hot chocolate.
I guess some people literally are thin-skinned. As you point out, that skin on your inner thighs is a place that a backpacker would particularly want to take steps to protect. Usually, though, if you are thin-skinned, you know it. Little kids are usually thin-skinned, too, but after the food has been sitting for long enough to re-hydrate, I would think it would have cooled to a safe temperature.
As for the plastic...I have to admit it. I'm more afraid of work than I am of plastic. If I packed it in in microwaveable plastic, I don't see a reason not to rehydrate in plastic.
Oh, and by the way....I can't wait to start on your recipes. Your website rocks! :banana
The Will
08-27-2006, 02:51
I was testing a cozy made from a sunshade from a car using a Wal-Mart brand 1 quart freezer bag with the zip style close. I filled the bag half full of boiling water and squeezed out extra air. I checked after a half hour to see how well the cozy was keeping in heat and the bag was leaking just a little bit.
Is there a better bag to use for freezer bag cooking? Are the bags that press close (yellow and blue make green Ziplock) or are the zip style closers better? Do name brand freezer bag hold any advantages over generic?
Thanks.
headchange4u,
To circumvent the bag leak issue completely, I use a Platypus water bottle with the top cut off as my "freeze bag" cooker. You have to be careful to not cut off to much of the top so you leave plenty of side-wall to roll down and form a secure closer (secured with paper clip). Its durable, light and environmentally sound since it is infinitely (nearly) reuseable.
headchange4u,
To circumvent the bag leak issue completely, I use a Platypus water bottle with the top cut off as my "freeze bag" cooker. You have to be careful to not cut off to much of the top so you leave plenty of side-wall to roll down and form a secure closer (secured with paper clip). Its durable, light and environmentally sound since it is infinitely (nearly) reuseable.
That is actually a cool idea! And make that even neater, as Platy's are still made in the US. And have a pleated bottom.
This is completely foolish- you are likening things whihc are made to be cooked in to things which are not.
http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/articles/halden_dioxins.html
Everyone takes different risks in life. I am for one very comfortable with plastic use in backpacking. Why? Most of us don't spend 6 months straight backpacking or hiking, etc. We go out for a weekend at a time, or a couple days. Using plastic during that time is minimal. Think about it, most drink out of Lexan (which other studies have pointed fingers to) or PET plastics. We eat with Lexan spoons, we drink out of Lexan or insulated plastic mugs. Plastic is everywhere.
For the most part, all our food comes in poly bags or plastic wrappings these days. Look in the grocery store....
You can of course avoid it if you really want..you can carry your food in paper sacks (you can find them still), and cook only in a pan. But don't use dishwashing soap-it contains elements of plastic. And use metal utensils. But as I have said many times, it is all about comfort zones. I use an aluminum pan to boil water in, and there are people who would believe that it causes other health issues.
And if you want you can also use Food Vac style bags, which are rated higher than freezer bags. (And no, I didn't invent freezer bagging cooking, I just happen to like doing it..been doing it for years, and like to share what one can do to simplify life). You could also "cook" your food in insulated mugs, but that is plastic also.
Blue Jay
09-02-2006, 23:53
But don't use dishwashing soap-it contains elements of plastic. And use metal utensils.
Exactly what "element" of plastic is in dishwashing soap? Please don't say carbon. As for utensils, I don't know anyone who boils their plastic spoon and then drinks the water.
When I thru hiked the JMT I used the snack sized ziplocks. I double bagged them and never had a problem when I poured boiling water in them and never had issues with leaks. They are big enough to fit what you want to eat and small enough so you dont have to go digging deep inside a normal sized bag and getting food on your hands. Don't need anything more.
Exactly what "element" of plastic is in dishwashing soap? Please don't say carbon. As for utensils, I don't know anyone who boils their plastic spoon and then drinks the water.
Jay, what I meant by that is the study that anti-Lexan users refer to cites dishwashing soap (ie..it isn't even soap!) as causing supposedly the issues with Lexan casting off undesirable plastic compounds. These are the same people who would have you not use Lexan or plastic spoons! So hence, my point was that if a person didn't want to use plastic bags (and no one is forcing anyone to.....) in camp cooking, then most likely they shouldn't be using Lexan or any plastic at all ;)
More tongue in cheek than anything else ;)
Totally offtopic:
The spoon boiling gave me a laugh...why? I love when hearing people claiming they boil water in dirty pans (with or without utensils) and then drink it-yet I have not once seen anyone do that. Recently the editor of our local trails orginzation did a blog on that....and lets just say his opinion was "yeah right, I am not doing that" :D I keep hoping to watch someone do it ;)
Brrrb Oregon
09-04-2006, 11:40
This is completely foolish- you are likening things whihc are made to be cooked in to things which are not.
http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/articles/halden_dioxins.html
As the article and linked sources point out, it does seem more prudent to stick to plastic products that are specifically made to be "microwave safe" and to avoid conditions that might melt the container. It isn't that hard to do.
Ziploc bags are manufactured to be microwave safe.
Ziploc bags are manufactured to be microwave safe.Here is one view:
Dear XXXX,
Thank you for your e-mail. We always appreciate hearing from our consumers.
Regarding your inquiry, ZIPLOC(r) brand Bags cannot be used to boil food. Unfortunately, we do not manufacture a "boilable" bag.
We do not recommend using any ZIPLOC(r) brand Bag in boiling water, or to "boil" in the microwave. ZIPLOC(r) brand Bags are made from polyethylene plastic with a softening point of approximately 195 degrees Fahrenheit. By pouring near boiling water (water begins to boil at 212 degrees) into the bag, or putting the bag into the water, the plastic could begin to melt.
Thanks again for your e-mail so we could give you the information you requested. If you have future comments or product information needs, we invite you to visit or e-mail us again at www.scjbrands.com.
Regards,
Sandra
Consumer Relationship Center
SC Johnson, A Family Company
Toll Free Number: 1-800-558-5252
www.scjbrands.com
LostInSpace
09-07-2006, 07:54
They are covering their butt, because if they didn't take this position and somebody burned themselves when using the freezer bag other than as SC Johnson intended, the person would likely sue the company.
Here's other engineer(s) view(s) (the interview at the John Hopkins site was with an engineer, thus the P.E. for professional engineer. Probably a bio-med engineer).
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article.php?id=99&title=Microwave+Safe+Containers
Boat Drinks
01-24-2007, 16:46
FD - can't be any worse than cooking ordinary macaroni and I do that often enough - 4 ounces uncooked macaroni + 1.75 cups boiling water and wait 30 minutes - the cozy I use keeps the meals very warm if I leave them covered - even after cooking the food usually stays warm/hot for another 30+ minutes in the cozy with the lid off - fortunately its easy to cool off a meal bag - pull it out of the cozy and dunk it in some water.
HOI, can you post your plans for the cozy you showed us at the SoRuck? or at least the dimenions of the material you used and where the cuts went. Thanks man!
Boat Drinks
01-24-2007, 17:07
OK but note this is for use with sandwich bags and not quart freezer bags - if you use freezer bags you will want to make the cozy bigger. Pictures - well I think someone saved a copy of the old stuff on the web - Skidsteer maybe - can't remember.
start with 12 inch by 7 inch CCF pad - I used an old Army pad from Army surplus store cause I liked the smaller cell size
make two 1.5 inch cuts (may be a little longer) on each long side (4 cuts total) - these cuts are centered on the long side and separated from each other by 3.5 inches (may be a little less)
The 3.5 inches between the cuts is the base of the cozy - the part that sits on the table so to speak.
bend the CCF at the cuts into a sort of U shape then squeeze the edges together to form an eye shaped opening at the top - put a wrap of duct tape around the top to hold this shape
turn cozy upside down and push down on the bottom to get it flat against the sides - trim the excess CCF off - ie cut the corners sticking out on the bottom part
put strips of duct tape on the bottom to hold the bottom part up against the sides then put a loop of duct tape around the cozy to cover the ends of the strips and help hold the strips on the cozy
turn cozy right side up and trim the upper edge of the opening if needed so that a lid will sit flat on top
from a separate piece of CCF cut a flat lid for the cozy - in use the lid is held down with a rock or water bottle or ... anything with some weight that is handy
as for the time to leave the food in the bag - this is just an experience thing but as a guess take whatever time you see for simmering and double it - for example for a Liptons noodle thing I use 20 minutes as the length of time to leave the lid on the cozy after pouring the boiling water in
__________________
HOI
Thanks HOI.
stoikurt
01-24-2007, 17:48
Coralrives,
Check out the Cozy I madeout of bubble mylar windshield reflector. It's just a simple pouch sewed together on the sides with a flap and velcro to close it. It's not freestanding but very effective.
The cozy is just beside my knee in this picture.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/2/4/7/StoikurtAtTorreya.JPG (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/2/4/7/StoikurtAtTorreya.JPG)
Here is the cozy being used as a plate for my breakfast.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/2/4/7/BreakfastBurrito.JPG (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/2/4/7/BreakfastBurrito.JPG)
Boat Drinks
01-24-2007, 17:53
Coralrives,
Check out the Cozy I madeout of bubble mylar windshield reflector. It's just a simple pouch sewed together on the sides with a flap and velcro to close it. It's not freestanding but very effective.
The cozy is just beside my knee in this picture.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/2/4/7/StoikurtAtTorreya.JPG (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/2/4/7/StoikurtAtTorreya.JPG)
Here is the cozy being used as a plate for my breakfast.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/2/4/7/BreakfastBurrito.JPG (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/2/4/7/BreakfastBurrito.JPG)
That looks nice, more packable than what HOI showed me, but I like the freestanding function of his... I'm sure to run into many designs!
Skidsteer
01-24-2007, 19:09
OK but note this is for use with sandwich bags and not quart freezer bags - if you use freezer bags you will want to make the cozy bigger. Pictures - well I think someone saved a copy of the old stuff on the web - Skidsteer maybe - can't remember.....
Here's the photo of HOI's cozy, etc.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=300251#post300251
oldfivetango
01-25-2007, 04:22
My experience with FBC on Liptons and the commercially
prepared meals has been great so far.HOWEVER,I tried plain
white rice and failed.I boiled the water,poured it in the bag with
the rice,put it back in the pot with a cozy on it plus the pot top,
and 30 minutes later I had rice which was sorta "crunchy".
Can you do plain rice in the bag or did I do something wrong?
Thanks,
Oldfivetango
I use the expensive 1 quart Ziploks with the two sealing strips-never had a leak. Backpacker mag had a "baggy test" in a recent issue and judged Ziplock the "best.". The walmart sunscreen cozy is realy helpful. You'll save a lot of fuel this way.
Stag3
stoikurt
01-25-2007, 09:25
My experience with FBC on Liptons and the commercially
prepared meals has been great so far.HOWEVER,I tried plain
white rice and failed.I boiled the water,poured it in the bag with
the rice,put it back in the pot with a cozy on it plus the pot top,
and 30 minutes later I had rice which was sorta "crunchy".
Can you do plain rice in the bag or did I do something wrong?
Thanks,
Oldfivetango
I think the plain white rice needs to be boiled for a little while and simmered. But instant rice should work well.
My experience with FBC on Liptons and the commercially
prepared meals has been great so far.HOWEVER,I tried plain
white rice and failed.I boiled the water,poured it in the bag with
the rice,put it back in the pot with a cozy on it plus the pot top,
and 30 minutes later I had rice which was sorta "crunchy".
Can you do plain rice in the bag or did I do something wrong?
Thanks,
Oldfivetango
Uncooked rice is one area where trying to cook it in a bag won't work. It does work to a point if you bring it to a boil in a pot, let bubble for a couple minutes, then park the pot into a pot cozy for 20 minutes. But, that does make a big mess to clean.
Best bet? Instant rice, or cook rice at home and dry it (in an oven or dehydrator), it becomes basically homemade instant rice with more flavor.
Totally offtopic:
The spoon boiling gave me a laugh...why? I love when hearing people claiming they boil water in dirty pans (with or without utensils) and then drink it-yet I have not once seen anyone do that. Recently the editor of our local trails orginzation did a blog on that....and lets just say his opinion was "yeah right, I am not doing that" :D I keep hoping to watch someone do it ;)
I did it once because of the postings and LNT. Ya gotta be hardcore to do it a 2nd time.
Lol...thanks for the laugh, Crash :D
hopefulhiker
01-25-2007, 22:49
I read somewhere just to get the regular zip lock bags not the freezer bags..
I read somewhere just to get the regular zip lock bags not the freezer bags..
You can, but they are neither as well made nor as strong. The Ziploc brand is best around overall, with the Glad bags right behind them. I am known for using Glad sandwich bags for oatmeal, the Glad brand is very heavy duty though, I'd not use other brands of sandwich bags!
Cherokee Bill
01-27-2007, 11:09
:D FBC is the the modern-day inexspensive answer to eating on the trail
;) SABAR has done an outstanding job introducing FBC to us all.
Sooooooooo, go to www.freezerbagcooking.com (http://www.freezerbagcooking.com) and purchase her (inexpensive) book on FBC. You will be glad you did (I did/am)
Bruce Hudson
01-28-2007, 14:30
I would like information on what others are using for a cozy. I saw this one: "I made a cozy out of bubble mylar windshield heat reflector. It sews easily. I made it about 8X8 or just big enough to store my tortillas inside while hiking. Cut it about 2 times plus 2 inches longer than it is wide. Fold it over and sew up the sides. Sew a piece of binding over the edge if you want it to look a little nicer. Fold the flap over and use sticky back velcro for securing the flap. At home it kept boiled water quite hot for over 30 minutes."
Thanks,
Bruce Hudson
Raleigh, NC
stoikurt
01-29-2007, 10:32
:D FBC is the the modern-day inexspensive answer to eating on the trail
;) SABAR has done an outstanding job introducing FBC to us all.
Sooooooooo, go to www.freezerbagcooking.com (http://www.freezerbagcooking.com) and purchase her (inexpensive) book on FBC. You will be glad you did (I did/am)
I've enjoyed Sarbar's FBC method since I learned about it early last year and have been sharing it with friends. I've been thinking about getting the book lately so this was the nudge I needed. Just ordered it and can't wait to get it.
This May I will be teaching special cooking and backpacking at our District Boy Scout Roundtable meeting. Betcha can't guess what my special cooking method will be.:eek: I'll choose a few recipes that we can prepare at the meeting and sample.
stoikurt
01-29-2007, 10:33
I would like information on what others are using for a cozy. I saw this one: "I made a cozy out of bubble mylar windshield heat reflector. It sews easily. I made it about 8X8 or just big enough to store my tortillas inside while hiking. Cut it about 2 times plus 2 inches longer than it is wide. Fold it over and sew up the sides. Sew a piece of binding over the edge if you want it to look a little nicer. Fold the flap over and use sticky back velcro for securing the flap. At home it kept boiled water quite hot for over 30 minutes."
Thanks,
Bruce Hudson
Raleigh, NC
That's the exact description of the one I made last year, down to the velcro and binding, and I love it. As you mentioned it's great for storing and protecting my tortillas.
I've enjoyed Sarbar's FBC method since I learned about it early last year and have been sharing it with friends. I've been thinking about getting the book lately so this was the nudge I needed. Just ordered it and can't wait to get it.
This May I will be teaching special cooking and backpacking at our District Boy Scout Roundtable meeting. Betcha can't guess what my special cooking method will be.:eek: I'll choose a few recipes that we can prepare at the meeting and sample.
If you need any help with that, let me know. I do Boy Scout presentations out here, and actually have a sheet my husband made up with recipes on it, the bbasics, etc. for handing out. He has it in PDF format somewhere around here :) When I have tons of young men standing there, I bring a ton of gear for them to play with. (or should I say the dads play with it......its always the dads with all the questions :rolleyes:)
stoikurt
01-29-2007, 11:17
If you need any help with that, let me know. I do Boy Scout presentations out here, and actually have a sheet my husband made up with recipes on it, the bbasics, etc. for handing out. He has it in PDF format somewhere around here :) When I have tons of young men standing there, I bring a ton of gear for them to play with. (or should I say the dads play with it......its always the dads with all the questions :rolleyes:)
That would be great. I'll PM you and let you know where to send the pdf when you find it.
sierra765
01-29-2007, 21:19
Since several who use freezer bag cooking are participating, I have a question. Has anyone tried 'cooking' homemade ground whole grain cereal using this method? I generally boil it for a couple of minutes and then let it sit covered until cool enough to eat. Would it stay hot long enough to soften up the grains?
Yes, I've found that breakfast grains soften well with just boiled water in a freezer bag, then left to sit in a cozy for 5-10 minutes.
bulldog49
02-06-2007, 14:24
so you cook dinner and eat in 10 minutes or less, now what are you gonna do the rest of the evening :-?
Probably the same thing an alchol stove user does for the 10 to 20 minutes he waits for his dinner to cook, except he will do it on a full stomach. :D