JRB No Sniveller VS Kickass Quilt [Archive]

wacbzz

06-21-2006, 19:31

Ok...First things first. I am a recently converted hammock hanger that desires an underquilt. I have searched the forum for comparisons between the JRB No Sniveller and the Kickass Quilt but have really found nothing. I am looking for help in this decision because it seems there are those out there who have both (for instance, Just Jeff). I have been to both websites extensively and see the differences on paper (mainly, synthetic vs down insulation) but don't know the "real" differences. My desire is to use my HH without a pad. I just finished a RayWay quilt and need to soon purchase an underquilt. I will be doing mostly S/S/F camping up on the Blue Ridge, with the occasional winter trip. I am a cold sleeper. Any help would be greatly appreciated.:-? Also, I know the final decision will be mine so please don't include that in an answer ("Well, that depends on what you want..." Duh). Finally, I hope neither Patrick nor the Jacks take offense to this post...I just need some real info and endlessly staring at each website only makes my decision that much harder. Thanks.

DGrav

06-21-2006, 20:50

I purchased two Nests (for the wife and I) last month. VERY happy with them.

In May the nest and a Mountain Hardware Phatom 45 kept me plenty warm down into the mid 30s on the Pinchot Trail in PA.

We spent last week on the AT in MD and durringa 60 degree night the Nest hung underneath the hammock was all I needed (nothing on top!)

wacbzz

06-21-2006, 20:53

I purchased two Nests last month.

Did you even consider the KA quilt? Why down over synthetic? Any worries about rain?

Just Jeff

06-21-2006, 21:51

Well, it really depends on what you want.

J/K. Well, sort of. Like you said, the biggest difference is down vs synthetic and all of the accompanying issues - bulk, weight, cost, performance when wet, etc.

Other than that, they're both great products. I think the KAQ was marginally easier to get a good fit right off the bat, whereas the JRB took a bit of fooling around with to get the intricacies. Certainly worth the effort, though. I think it's because the JRB is a rectangle and the KAQ is more fitted with the bathtub shape...which means the JRB is multi-functional and the KAQ is not. I haven't had the KAQ at its lower limit, but based on how low I have had it (http://www.tothewoods.net/GearTestKAQ.html) I suspect I could squeeze out a few degrees lower than the JRB.

Honestly, if I had to choose between the two, I would base it on preference for down vs synthetic more than anything else. After that, I'd compare weight and cost and decide which was more important. Both are quality products and will keep you warm for 3 season temps in most places.

I usually carry the No Sniveler simply b/c of the weight and b/c it lets me not bring a jacket for most of my trips, but I can't really think of anything bad to say about the KAQ.

DawnTreader

06-21-2006, 22:39

I have a nest, and have used it a lot since I got it.. I have no qualms yet. I'm not too worried about the rain.. I also carry a MacCat standard which offers great coverage. I've owned both down and sythenetic, and prefer down. I didn't think the setup or "intricacies" as Jeff put it, were a big deal at all, however I've never used the KAQ. The JRB is easy to adjust and took only a few hangings to get it right..

wacbzz

06-21-2006, 23:32

Like you said, the biggest difference is down vs synthetic and all of the accompanying issues - bulk, weight, cost, performance when wet, etc.

Here's my line of thinking (logical or not)...Having just made my RW quilt and seeing its quality, I've been somewhat "indoctrinated" by this (www.ray-way.com/quilt/goosedown.shtml (http://www.ray-way.com/quilt/goosedown.shtml)) and lean towards the KAQ. Since I'm not a gram weenie, the weight (approx 28 oz vs 21.5 for the JRB) doesn't bother me. It would cost almost $100 more for the JRB for me (I would have to have the long version, would have to pay extra for the suspension system, and would have to add VA sales tax). Is down worth $100 more? If it gets wet, then no. I'm not sure of the bulk issue but my RW quilt packs down pretty small.

On the flip side, I have a MacCat Deluxe so it doesn't seem that rain would really be an issue. I also really like the idea that the JRB NS is baffled rather than quilted. For some reason, that seems longer lasting in my mind (remember the first line above...:rolleyes: ).

I can't really think of anything bad to say about the KAQ.

Except for the carabiner that goes over the ridgeline of the HH? Has this been fixed??

And now, after reading DGrav and DawnTreader, maybe I should be looking at the JRB Nest instead of the NS:-? Hmmmm......

bearbag hanger

06-21-2006, 23:59

I have the JRB No Sniveller (NS) and am quite happy with it. I found it good to around 45 - 50 degrees by itself. Below that I use a poncho, with the NS between the hammock and the poncho. Then I seem to be good down to the mid-30s or so, after doing a bit of adjusting of the lines for a tight, but not too tight fit. Rain can be a problem if I'm not able to use the poncho (the poncho gets a little wet when I wear it in the rain). For that reason, I just recently purchase JRBs weather shield, but haven't used it yet.

I prefer the No Sniveller over the Nest mostly because the Nest seems like it would have a cold spot at the entrance?

Just Jeff

06-22-2006, 00:42

Except for the carabiner that goes over the ridgeline of the HH? Has this been fixed??

Good question - probably worth an email to Patrick to find out. He mentioned that he was thinking about it and deciding if he needed to change anything, but that's been several months now. I have one of his first models, so maybe someone with a newer model can answer. I haven't seen Patrick on WB for a while, but I assume he's still answering his emails - he's always been very responsive in the past.

If he hasn't, you could always just use a loop of string instead of the biner. Not something that would affect my decision over which quilt to buy.

Re: the JRBs, I like the NS better than the Nest just b/c of the poncho. I don't think I ever noticed a cold spot at the entrance, but the Nest can attach to itself to seal out drafts if that's a problem. I keep the Nest as an underquilt and use the NS as a top quilt so I can wear it w/o having to detach it. When I use the PeaPod, I only take the NS as a top quilt so I keep the ability to wear it easily.

Rain hasn't really been a problem for me. I've had some blow onto the ends of the Nest a bit, but never enough to wet through or anything. And not since I've used the MacCat.

I certainly see the advantages of synthetics, though. Even moreso when on a budget. Like I said, down vs synthetic would be my first consideration when choosing.

Just my opinions...YMMV.

nutlub

06-22-2006, 06:41

I wonder how much harder it would be to construct a KAQ with down instead of synthetics....since I've never worked with down I have no idea?

:-?

peter_pan

06-22-2006, 07:12

WACBZZ,

FTR if you are planning to use the No Sniveller as an underquilt you only need a regular unless you are 6-5 or over....Regular comes with the suspension system....

Keeping things apples to apples the No sniveller is baffled to 2 inches but overstuffed to 2.5 inches.... believe that you would have to get an extra layer of insulation to achieve the same thickness.... so your cost delta looks more like $35 .... can't do anything about tax.

BTW you are less than an hour up the road from JRB, you could examine the quilts first had.

Pan

DGrav

06-22-2006, 08:02

Did you even consider the KA quilt? Why down over synthetic? Any worries about rain?
I never really considered the KA quilt because I'm a huge fan of down. Plus prior to ordering our Nests I purchased some other gear from JRB and was blown away by their customer service.

For years I was paranoid about down getting wet so I stayed with synthetic bags. After about 15 years of backpacking and camping I realized that not once had my bag ever gotten wet. I am new to the hammock world but so far everything has stayed dry.

I made the switch to down a few years ago and I will never by another synthetic again. Down is more compressible and lighter than a synthetic bag of the same rating.

I also feel that down is more comfortable and this may sound crazy but my 45 degree down bag is warmer than my 30 degree synthetic bag by the same manufacture!

DawnTreader

06-22-2006, 11:55

I've purchased three items from JRB.. all on seperate occassions, and each time, customer service was fantastic.. unbelievably fast..
I have found that I don't attach the nest slit to the HH.. I have had 0 cold spots, and its been chilly at night..
I am intreguied by the KAQ, but the goose feathers are excellent for me...nice and cozy.. my own little climate controlled cave...
Jeff...
Your gear hammock is awsome.. I love not having to put my stuff on the ground...great to have people like the Jacks to produce such a brilliant idea!!!

DavidR

06-22-2006, 15:44

This thread has been interesting to read. I recently purchased a Nest due to the fact that Jack's are so close and I really prefer down. It is very well made for sure.
I didn't put to much thought to the KAQ due to it being synthetic but also I didn't see much mentioned about it on the forum.

Alligator

06-22-2006, 16:07

Most experienced hikers know how to keep their bag dry. I can only remember one time when I got my bag damp and it has never happened since. For an experienced hiker who uses both, the down vs. synthetic argument is mostly about weight vs $. My impression is that hammockers are very interested in keeping warm while keeping weight low and therefore gravitate to down. Patrick doesn't use down (AFAIK), so he produced the KAQ.

Just Jeff

06-22-2006, 16:30

Agree with Alligator. JRB has been around for a few years and Patrick just started, too. Being the first to market a brand new idea gives a big advantage to establishing market share.

It seems to me that HH is the market leader for lightweight camping hammocks, and JRB is the market leader for dedicated hammock insulation. I don't have any numbers for that, though - I'd be interested in a market analysis comparing HH, Speer, Clark and the PeaPod, SPE, JRB sets, and the SuperShelter. Maybe some of the value-based hammocks like Byer, too.

Thanks for the compliment, DT.

hawkeye

06-22-2006, 16:30

I got a KAQ and it works great. The price was right also.

wacbzz

06-22-2006, 16:41

Most experienced hikers know how to keep their bag dry.

All the experience in the world doesn't save your a** in a surprise rainstorm. Its how well one is prepared that could help them out. I use either dry bags or silnylon on everything in my pack to help keep stuff dry. I use my MacCat tarp to try to protect my HH from the elements. That's not experience, that's common sense.

My impression is that hammockers are very interested in keeping...weight low and therefore gravitate to down

I sleep in my HH because it affords me a much better sleep than a tent does. Weight has nothing to do with it. As mentioned earlier, the KAQ is about 8-9 ozs heavier than the JRB so it cannot be that someone would choose down over synthetic because of lighter weight (As an example, see Ray and Jenny Jardine - some of the most hardcore ultralighters but they make all of their quilts for their personal use with synthetic material).

I just wish it was possible to try both out...:sun

wacbzz

06-22-2006, 17:13

WACBZZ,

FTR if you are planning to use the No Sniveller as an underquilt you only need a regular unless you are 6-5 or over. Pan

Pan, the reason I figured I needed the long version was because of this from the JRB website: The No Sniveller (Long)Description: For individuals over 6 feet tall we offer an extra long version (86" x 48" x 2")

I am 6'1" so which would work best for me?

Alligator

06-22-2006, 17:30

All the experience in the world doesn't save your a** in a surprise rainstorm. Its how well one is prepared that could help them out. I use either dry bags or silnylon on everything in my pack to help keep stuff dry. I use my MacCat tarp to try to protect my HH from the elements. That's not experience, that's common sense.
An experienced hiker would know to be prepared for a surprise rainstorm. I pack my gear with the expecation that I will get rained on 24/7. Chill out dude. You would think it would be common sense to make sure your bag won't get wet, but some folks seem to manage anyways. Like some folks might think a pack cover is enough to keep your bag dry and not line their stuff sack. Or they put that pack down in the wrong spot, and suddenly it's a puddle. Whatever. There are lots of newbies out there who possess common sense yet are unsure how to keep their stuff dry. Search recent threads.

I sleep in my HH because it affords me a much better sleep than a tent does. Weight has nothing to do with it. As mentioned earlier, the KAQ is about 8-9 ozs heavier than the JRB so it cannot be that someone would choose down over synthetic because of lighter weight (As an example, see Ray and Jenny Jardine - some of the most hardcore ultralighters but they make all of their quilts for their personal use with synthetic material).

I just wish it was possible to try both out...:sunI wasn't talking about tents vs. hammocks, but you make my point exactly. For most gram weenies, 8-9 oz is a huge amount of weight. They do choose down over synthetic for lighter weight. Try to keep up, some folks drill their toothbrushes. The Jardines are but one example. Run through the gear lists of the majority of ultralighters and I am confident you won't find many synthetics.

Skidsteer

06-22-2006, 17:37

All the experience in the world doesn't save your a** in a surprise rainstorm.

I think it usually does because...

Its how well one is prepared that could help them out.

....Which comes from experience; In my experience, anyway. :D

I suppose it's possible for a beginner to be prepared by being overprepared but experience is still the best preparedness teacher.

At least, that's been my experience. ;)

peter_pan

06-22-2006, 17:53

Pan, the reason I figured I needed the long version was because of this from the JRB website: The No Sniveller (Long)Description: For individuals over 6 feet tall we offer an extra long version (86" x 48" x 2")

I am 6'1" so which would work best for me?

WACBZZ,

Please understand that the JRB quilts will handle several functions....

They excell as under quilts ....All standard length ie 78 inches length are more than sufficient as under quilts wrapping from the top of the head to the center of the bottom of ones feet...

They also make great top quilts....the No Sniveller although used by Sgt Rock and others as an under quilt was originally intended as a top quilt ( see three season set for example)....The ground community has become a significant consumer of JRB quilts because of superior construction, generous fill per size, multifunctionality, light weight and because they are sized to work adequately on the ground also...When forming a foot box and curvinving back to ground over the shoulders the standard length is fine up to 6 foot....hence the long models were offered those taller than 6 foot, who may want to go to ground with a JRB top quilt.

Hope that is clear....As another clarification, note, the most popular quilt, the Nest is not even offered in a long.

Pan

wacbzz

06-22-2006, 17:56

For most gram weenies, 8-9 oz is a huge amount of weight.

Please see post #6. I started this thread to try to get some info for me, not a gram weenie, not to gather info on how to lighten the load. And maybe that is selfish, but this is about me and my decision and I clearly stated that weight doesn't matter, especially if it is mere ozs. Just in case you might have missed, or overlooked, or misread my earlier postings, I am looking for info/opinions on either the KAQ and the JRB No Sniveller/Nest because I am in the market to purchase one. Postings about customer service, why one choses down over synthetic, and actual camping experiences with one or the other are very helpful. No harm meant, it's just I like to stick to the topic.

I suppose it's possible for a beginner to be prepared by being overprepared but experience is still the best preparedness teacher.

Agreed.:)

wacbzz

06-22-2006, 17:58

They also make great top quilts....the No Sniveller although used by Sgt Rock and others as an under quilt was originally intended as a top quilt ( see three season set for example)....The ground community has become a significant consumer of JRB quilts because of superior construction, generous fill per size, multifunctionality, light weight and because they are sized to work adequately on the ground also...When forming a foot box and curvinving back to ground over the shoulders the standard length is fine up to 6 foot....hence the long models were offered those taller than 6 foot, who may want to go to ground with a JRB top quilt.

Hope that is clear....As another clarification, note, the most popular quilt, the Nest is not even offered in a long.

Pan

Thank you. That helps me immensly. I may be making a trip down to Williamsburg soon if that works for you.:sun

Alligator

06-22-2006, 21:52

If you want to be selfish, and have this thread about you, you, you, YOU need to be post it in the Straight Forward section of the site. Otherwise, the REST of the community will begin to discuss the original post, and OTHER questions/thoughts/musings may appear. Such as this from David
This thread has been interesting to read. I recently purchased a Nest due to the fact that Jack's are so close and I really prefer down. It is very well made for sure.
I didn't put to much thought to the KAQ due to it being synthetic but also I didn't see much mentioned about it on the forum.Whereupon I immediately I offered some thoughts on his musing.

If this bothers you, you are ABSOLUTELY in the wrong forum. Try trailplace.com or practicalbackpacking.com if you're anal:D .

wacbzz

06-23-2006, 09:59

If you want to be selfish, and have this thread about you, you, you, YOU need to be post it in the Straight Forward section of the site. If this bothers you, you are ABSOLUTELY in the wrong forum. Try trailplace.com or practicalbackpacking.com if you're anal:D .

My bad. I guess that is my "experience" with the forum posting areas showing through. What bothers me is when people don't read all the previous posts and answer accordingly - you know, just thrown in something for all to read. That's cool though. I'll know for the future. By the way, do you have a KAQ or JRB Nest/No Sniveller that you can give me an opinion on? I looked back through your posts and didn't see any musings about your experience with either...:-?

Alligator

06-23-2006, 10:32

My bad. I guess that is my "experience" with the forum posting areas showing through. What bothers me is when people don't read all the previous posts and answer accordingly - you know, just thrown in something for all to read. That's cool though. I'll know for the future. By the way, do you have a KAQ or JRB Nest/No Sniveller that you can give me an opinion on? I looked back through your posts and didn't see any musings about your experience with either...:-?Nope, I would've answered your specific questions had I owned them.

But I can give you a little help here. Ask Jeff to tell you who he knows who owns both. Then PM them. If I had to guess I would say that Patrick has made less than 100, probably less than 50.

Alternatively, try the Hammock Camping newsletter if you are not already subscribed, sign up through Ed Speers site. I haven't read all of these, but maybe a name will pop up of someone who has used the KAQ.

Given the expense of the Nest, I would estimate that there are less than 2 dozen people who have both. That would be a high estimate. You might be able to throw in a couple of people who borrowed one or the other to test them out. While there may be dissatisfied customers, the Nest has been highly rated. (Didn't it place somewhere this year?) That would leave a group of customers who bought the KAQ, but later decided to go with the Nest.

wacbzz

06-23-2006, 10:54

That would leave a group of customers who bought the KAQ, but later decided to go with the Nest.

Great thought. Is there anyone out there who has owned one or the other and then switched????? If so, what were your reasons? Please PM me if you don't feel like answering publicly...

Just Jeff

06-23-2006, 12:51

I don't remember anyone else who owns both. I have both b/c Patrick asked me to test one. Don't remember anyone switching one way or the other, either.

There are probably some folks out there who just haven't posted, though. I'd be interested in hearing their experiences, too - so please post here if you have experience with both. But as WACBZZ says, he needs the info more than I do so at least PM him if you don't want to post.

SGT Rock

06-23-2006, 13:29

All I own is the NoSniveler and I love it. Since it has a DWR shell the worst storm I have yet encountered only ended up causing a slight amount of drops that splashed up on the quilt. The soulution has been to stay away from hard packed existing campsites which have no duft, seems you get more "backspatter" for lack of a better term when you have hard bare ground. It seems that when the rain hits duft, especially pine straw, that there is none at all.

I've only ever got down wet once, and that was a dozie. But it was because I was on the ground. I have no fear of getting my down wet in the air. That is one of the benifits to being off the ground.

Anyway, I am sure the KAQ are good and the maker offers top service and all. I remember when he started that up and I hope he makes it good. The only thinkg I fear for him was Tom Hennessy mentioned making his own synthetic quilt for the Hammock someday soon. I am afraid that unless his products beat Tom's stuff by a country mile in some area, that he may get buried. But for the JRB benifit, Tom doesn't like down.

wacbzz

06-23-2006, 13:45

SGT Rock

06-23-2006, 13:48

Only as a part of my layering system in the coldest of weather. At that point it is more of a wind blocker than anything else, plus you could, if you wanted to, pile in extra loft in the form of leaves and straw. But before I added that I have slept down into the teens with a simple 1/2" foam pad and the old style NS quilt. As I understand it the newere NS and Nest are thicker.

txulrich

06-23-2006, 15:07

I have the Nest from JRB. I believe mine to be pre-ovestuffed vintage. But, it is a great product and i wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. I liked it so much, that I made (alright, my mom did the sewing) a quilt based loosely on the Old Rag Mountain quilt. I now use the Nest as my top quilt.

Like Rock, I also have a WeatherShield that I use in colder weather. With the WS and homemade quilt on the bottom, and the Nest on the top, I was borderline comfy to the low 30's. I only wore polypro longjohns and some socks. The Nest was the weak link as I felt some coldspots on the top side. With heavier clothing or a heavier top quilt and a hat, I could easily get to near 20. Below that, I would add a pad.

From experience, JRB makes great stuff. From what I've read, so does Patrick. The differences comes down to money, weight and compressability. Only you can decide what are the more important factors and make a decision accordingly.

hawkeye

06-23-2006, 17:57

If I had the money I would have bought a JRB but I am very happy with my KAQ. It takes up more space and does weigh more (not much) but it works great. I would highly recommend it. If you do buy one watch out for the Qultasaurs!

Skidsteer

06-23-2006, 18:05

I would estimate that there are less than 2 dozen people who have both. That would be a high estimate. You might be able to throw in a couple of people who borrowed one or the other to test them out.

WCBZZ,

You might try contacting MedicineMan. He springs to mind as a WB'er that may own or at have tried both.

wentworth

06-23-2006, 21:20

Over at www.bushcraftuk.com they are organising a group buy of synthetic underquilts to the style of the KAQ. As I understand, Patrick isn't able to deliver 100+ so the group has approached Snugpac, who have looked at the quilt and made up a prototype. It's going to have some sort of water resistant outer shell as I recall. Might be worth you checking out. Look in the Group Buys forum.

Just Jeff

06-23-2006, 23:20

I wonder how Patrick feels about Snugpac manufacturing his design for profit.

Patrick

06-24-2006, 00:48

Sorry to respond so late. I haven't been on the forums enough lately, which I'll do my best to remedy.

WAC, my return policy is liberal, so you're welcome to try one out and return it if you find it's not for you or you like the JRB better. I'm in Silver Spring, MD, so you're welcome to come by and check one out, too.

As far as I know, Jeff is the only person to have both mine and the Jacks. If anyone else does, I'd love to hear from you.

I think the argument of synthetic doing better when wet is largely moot. For one thing, just because it technically does better, you still don't want to do it. Also, from my experience, you have to be in quite a storm to get an underquilt wet. I've been in very bad wind and rain with just a HH stock tarp and barely gotten more than a spray.

As far as the durability of the quilting loops go, they're probably not as strong as baffles, but I don't think the underquilt takes enough abuse to matter. I've never had the slightest problem with mine. I use a Ray-Way top quilt myself and I have pulled a loop out of that. It happens when you're on top of part of it and pulling on it without realizing. It's very easy to fix. If it ever does happen, I include probably more spare yarn than I use in the whole underquilt and a depth guide to get the right size.

I have replaced the carabiners. I now use shock cord with a mitten hook. The shock cord causes much less stress to the netting. It's flexible, stretches, it's a loop so there's more surface area, and it will roll rather than slide as it moves.

I won't be making down. I prefer synthetic for a variety of reasons and I think the Jacks make an excellent product. They're certainly the standard in underquilts.

One of the reasons I like synthetic is that it's very easy to work with. I have detailed instructions on my site for making your own and I hope everyone who's considering it will make one. It's pretty simple and really satisfying to make your own gear. Plus, there's a free t-shirt in it for anyone who does. Everyone likes free shirts. Honestly, as much as I like making and selling them, it really does something for me when I hear from someone who's made their own. One of these years I'll get off my ass and actually put up the user page with photos from those who've done so.

I have made less than 50, yes. I make a couple a month, which is good. I wish I could do it full-time, but for now I'm sewing on weekends and in the middle of the night, so a week or so to make one works out well.

I went around and around with the guys on Bushcraft about the Snugpak thing. I'm satisfied that their intentions are good and that the design they develop won't be based on mine. I was initially very concerned and wrote them explaining that I put my plans up in an effort to help hikers, not for anyone to make money off of. To Snugpak's credit, as soon as they heard I was worried, they backed out. After talking to the guys at BC and getting things sorted out, I told them I was fine with their plans and it's back on as far as I know.

Anyway, sorry again about being scarce on the forums lately. I'm always in front of the computer and will respond to e-mails right away if anyone has any questions. Thanks everyone for the kind words.

SGT Rock

06-24-2006, 03:55

FWIW, I tried a snugpack bag and froze my ass off in temps well within their "comfort" range. I wouldn't worry about them overtaking you except maybe the fact they can mass produce the things.

peter_pan

06-24-2006, 08:50

FWIW, I tried a snugpack bag and froze my ass off in temps well within their "comfort" range. I wouldn't worry about them overtaking you except maybe the fact they can mass produce the things.

Rock,

Your not alone in these views....Wiggy has written this for years....it is all over his archived news letters... but as a synthetic bag maker he may have some bias...

Pan

SGT Rock

06-24-2006, 08:54

Well I don't have any bias ;)

As you know I call it like I see it. Snnugpac sucks. I tried two of their bags and thought the same thing of them. I actually had a phone converstation with Wiggy after he read my review LOL. He sounds like he knows what he is talking about except his contention that synthetic is now better than down, but then again he means well.

I know some people that own Wiggy bags and love them. If I were looking for a company to mass produce a synthetic blanket, Wiggy would be near the top.

Just Jeff

06-24-2006, 12:08

Double post deleted.

Just Jeff

06-24-2006, 12:09

I have the mating Wiggys set and I'm happy with the construction, but I haven't tested it for temps. I've never been cold in it, though. I just wish their bivy was breathable.

wacbzz

06-24-2006, 13:37

Guys, thanks for all your posts. All of this info has been very helpful. I'm now wondering about how compressible down vs synthetic is as concerns these 2 underquilts only, not in the general sense. Further, if the down JRB does compress smaller, how long does it take to get back to original size? My Ray Way quilt will compress quite small, and takes no time to "fluff" back up. Since the KAQ uses the same 3D, I can estimate that but have no clue as to the JRB. :-?

Just Jeff

06-24-2006, 15:41

I've been meaning to add the KAQ to the pic at the top of my stay warm page. In the meantime, I took this one just now.

Both have a diameter of ~24". The KAQ is 16" tall and the JRB is 9" tall. Both could probably compress a little bit more, but not much and I don't like to compress my stuff more than needed, even in the pack.

wacbzz

06-24-2006, 16:07

Jeff-thanks for the picture. How long does it take for the JRB to come back to normal size once removed from the compressed state? Does it down usually take longer to get back to its uncompressed size than synthetic material?

Just Jeff

06-24-2006, 17:03

If there's a difference, I haven't noticed it. I set up my hammock and lay out the quilts first, then do my other camp chores. By the time I'm ready for bed, it's all good.

The down can shift, though...if there's enough down in there (JRB does the overstuff now) that's a good thing b/c you can shift it to where you need it. So if you're too warm, shift the down to the sides and you'll cool off a bit. That means you need to check where the down is when you set it up, and maybe fluff it where you want it, whereas synthetic is the same thickness all the time. No fluffing necessary and no cold spots, but you get a bit less flexibility.

Patrick

06-24-2006, 17:15

Jeff, thanks for posting that photo. That's very useful.

I now ship with a roomy stuff sack, which I like a lot. It allows the underquilt to loft up in your pack when there's room. When you need to mash it down, it's a lot easier to do when the stuff sack isn't tight. It helps the insulation mold to the shape of the pack much better. I use the same with my top quilt.

To give a sense of compressability, I don't have any trouble packing both quilts and a week's worth of 3-season gear into my ULA P-1 pack.

WAC, I have a Ray-Way top quilt, too. The weight and compression are noto noticeably different. That's probably the best answer I can give. Like Jeff, I always throw my quilts up when I get to camp to give them time to do their thing.

titanium_hiker

06-27-2006, 02:59

I think I remember the real reason why the KAQ came into existence is that if you are a vegan, you won't use down. :D

(which is cool- I'm no vegan, but I have a lot of vegan friends)

titanium_hiker

Patrick

06-29-2006, 15:56

The animals love me:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=11814&catid=member&imageuser=6087

jlb2012

06-29-2006, 15:59

LOL - reminds me of the very first night I slept in a hammock - a raccoon came by to check me out - spooked me some when the coon walked under the hammock and I woke up hearing foot steps _under_ me

VAMTNHIKER

06-30-2006, 08:08

If you get the opportunity, I highly recommend stopping by Peter Pan's... just being down the road, I have twice now. Great host... great presenter on product use... just a joy to spend some time with.

(Moi??? Sucking up for next year's purchase???!! Geez.. they don't have much left in the product line!) ::grin::

jazilla

07-05-2006, 11:39

Jeff do you use a bigger pack with your KAQ when you carry it or does it any all you carry fit in your Speed Bag. Reason I ask is cause I just bought a KAQ and it should be here in a few weeks. I am also in the market for a lighter bag. My wife bought my current one( she is a sweetie) on ebay and the thing weights in at 6 lbs. I am looking at the North Face Skareb 55. It has the cu in I like but that was before I looked at getting a KAQ. Just wondering, any comment from anyone would be helpful.

PS. Please only helpful comments.

Just Jeff

07-05-2006, 13:50

It makes things a bit tighter but I can still fit everything I need. The Speed is 54L including pockets and stuff - the main bag is about 45L IIRC - so assuming the rest of your gear isn't very bulky, you could probably make it fit.

wacbzz

07-05-2006, 14:30

Just to let you guys know, I decided to purchase the JRB Nest. All (well most anyway;) ) of the comments posted on this thread were extremely helpful, as was talking with Patrick and Jack via PM's.

Jeff, thanks for posting the photo comparing the two in their stuff sacks - that was what really made my decision for me. I'm going to Cold Mt/Mt Pleasant this coming weekend and hope to try it out (remember, I am a cold sleeper - I will use it in 50 degree weather...).

wacbzz

07-10-2006, 14:15

Okay, I finally had a chance to take out my newly purchases JRB NEST (and Pacerpoles for that matter). I went this weekend to Mt Pleasant here in VA with my wife. The hike was quite easy but afforded arguably the best views in VA. While it didn't get very cold (upper 50's), I DO sleep cold, so I broke out the Nest and installed as I had practiced at home.

My inital impression of the Nest was that is was of solid construction and in appearance, would keep me warm. My wife, knowing that I sleep cold, asked how I was going to stay warm with just the Nest and my Ray Way quilt and no sleeping bag. I answered that "hopefully" those two items would be enough. Happily, they were. I never felt cold through the night, nor did I have to readjust any of the down in the Nest. It was, in a word, awesome.

My only concern/question is in its attachment point with the HH. Maybe I installed it wrong, but after attaching the velcro from the Nest to the opening of the HH, there seemed to me to be no way to seal the HH shut. Is this how it is supposed to be? I kind of rigged it so the velcro was half attached to the hammock so that I could somewhat seal the gap but never fully got it shut. In fact, my wife commented in the morning that my hammock was "not shut." Is this something I am doing wrong in the setup?:-?

For me, this would really sum it up -
Pro's:
1. Weight - stoooopid lite (why have I never tried down before :datz )
2. Compressability - even smaller than the picture that JustJeff posted
3. Comfort level - though it only got down to the upper 50's, I can tell that
my Nest/Ray Way combination will be very good for me

Con:
1. Only one - what I mentioned above - If this is my fault, then scratch
this

Overall, I would recommend the JRB Nest without any hinderances. :sun

hammock engineer

07-10-2006, 14:41

I have noticed this with mine too. Your weight in the hammock should be enough to keep it shut. Although I did wake up with my foot hanging outside once. Note that the racer HH does not even have velcro.

What I do now is try to attach the underquilt to the velco using only half of it. These leaves some of the velcro to close the HH. I have thought of adding a second strip of velcro to either the HH or the underquilt. I haven't done it yet, I don't want to miss with something that works well.

peter_pan

07-10-2006, 20:33

If you insure that none of the quilt edge is in the slit .....the slit will but closed when loaded.....

If you want a true storm door seal....close the JRB Nest on it self. Enter and leave by just pushing it aside and you get a solid cover over a velcroable sealed slit...Just an option for when you want a truly tight seal.

Pan

wacbzz

07-10-2006, 22:14

AHA!! Now I don't feel like such a moron... Thanks for the info Pan (and your help).

FanaticFringer

08-23-2006, 22:41

Let's see. The Speer Top Blanket sure looks good. No, I think the Sniveller is better. Wait, that Fanatic Fringe quilt is cool too. A little less expensive. Oh darn, it weighs a few ounces more. What about the KAQ? No I really like the versatility of the Sniveller. Plus it's lighter. But the KAQ is cheaper!!!
I could save about half the $$$$ and purchase a Campmor 20 degree down mummy. Fiddle sticks!!!! That would be twice the weight of the Speer Top Blanket. Decisions, decisions, decisions............. I'm going to order me a "Sniveller" tomorrow..........:banana:banana:banana:banana:ban ana

Waterbuffalo

08-31-2006, 20:47

As of this past weekend I am able to say I have tried both the JRb and the KAQ and hands down I liked the KAQ better. I am a heavy set 240lb warm sleeper and I got cold in an early chill on a JRB but I was great with my new KAQ

Just Jeff

08-31-2006, 23:23

So use the KAQ as an underquilt and the JRB as a top quilt!

nchiker467

09-20-2006, 17:10

thats wat i plan to do.Jrb no snivellertop quilt and Kaq underquilt :)

take-a-knee

01-20-2007, 18:36

I have a KAQ. I ordered it too late in the spring to actually use it in the climate I live in (GA). I just hung it on my hammock on the back porch for some "testing". Patrick's customer service is over the top, when I ordered it he was having supplier problems and I told him I was in no hurry to have it. I would still get these effusive, apolgetic updates on the progress he was making. I've never used a JRB, so I can't compare them, I started to order one to use as a top quilt to replace my RAYWAY but I've since decided to get a Feathered Friends Rock Wren to use in the hammock... or where ever, since it is a proper bag, I'm not sold on the quilt thing on the ground, too drafty.

Back too the KAQ, it is MUCH more compressible than my Ray Way top quilt, my KAQ is a small and my Ray Way was ordered with the "alpine upgrade", The Ray Way is so bulky I've decided to replace it with something down-filled, hence the decision to get a Rock Wren.

I think the Rock Wren/KAQ will be a winning combo, if for no other reason than the fact that the Wren has a hood, and that solves a big problem for a hammocker, that is, stopping heat-loss from your head/neck.