View Full Version : Question about flying with a pack
Kevin A. Boyce
06-26-2006, 20:02
Here is a question I thought about earlier today for those of you that fly with packs as carry ons, not checked luggage...:-?
Have they; airlines/TSA, etc... given you a hard time about frame stays in packs?
I am heading to Alaska at the end of July, shipping most of my gear and supplies ahead of time, but planning on carrying a smaller pack; actually the REI UL45 pack, as a carry on. I was wondering if I will be given a hard time about the metal frame stay.
Of course I will call the airlines to get their opinion, but that will differ I am sure from the people at the gate and the TSA. I could just send the metal stay ahead with my other gear to make life easier... I have not yet flown in this post 9/11 world so I am wondering.
Any thoughts?
KevBoy
Here is a question I thought about earlier today for those of you that fly with packs as carry ons, not checked luggage...:-?
Have they; airlines/TSA, etc... given you a hard time about frame stays in packs?
I am heading to Alaska at the end of July, shipping most of my gear and supplies ahead of time, but planning on carrying a smaller pack; actually the REI UL45 pack, as a carry on. I was wondering if I will be given a hard time about the metal frame stay.
Of course I will call the airlines to get their opinion, but that will differ I am sure from the people at the gate and the TSA. I could just send the metal stay ahead with my other gear to make life easier... I have not yet flown in this post 9/11 world so I am wondering.
Any thoughts?
KevBoyThe problem is that even if the airlines tell you something now, the folks at the terminal might feel differently, and there is not much chance of over-ruling them.
If possible, I'd check the pack. Pick up an old Army duffle from Goodwill, stuff it in, and check it.
What ever you do, don't carry a knife on board, even a small lexan one :)
Footslogger
06-26-2006, 22:40
The above post is somewhat true. The TSA regulations are only as good as the people interpreting and enforcing them.
That said ...I have flown with my pack as carry on over a half dozen times now and have never had a problem. I always send ahead the things I know will raise red flags (tent stakes, small pocket knife, stove etc.) but everything else goes in the pack. There have been a few questions asked based on what they see on x-ray but if you cooperate and show them what they want to see and answer their questions you're through security in no time.
At least this is my (our experience). As a matter of fact, we fly this coming Saturday from Denver to Boston and the packs are going onboard with us.
'Slogger
I've flown with my pack. I had to check it and put it in a large plastic bag that they provided. Got everything back in good order.........I even had things straped to the outside........ Just don't bring any fuel
stranger
07-16-2006, 01:35
I have been living in New Zealand for 4 years now and have crossed the Pacific 11 times with various airlines.
My piece of advice would be "don't bet on anything". Granted domestic travel is far less strict than international (I get searched physically every time I enter the US), but airlines in general are a mess and everyone will tell you something different.
Most people wouldn't even know that stays come out of packs, even some hikers, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Lester C
07-16-2006, 08:41
TSA is not consistent. This week I flew with my pack, an old exernal framme Jansport D3, fully loaded. The load included my stove. No problem going up to Maine. On the return trip TSA confiscated my fuel bottle and my stove. True, it was stupid to leave a small amount of fuel in the fuel bottle, but they may have taken them even if there was no fuel. I suggested that I would empty the fuel and the TSA inspector said the bottle and stove could not go even if there was residue of fuel.
Be overly cautious and ship anything questionable and do not try to fly with a drop of fuel.
Lester C
07-16-2006, 08:43
PS to my last post. I did not try to carry my pack on. I checked it.
I always put my pack in a canvass duffle bag, and try to stuff things around it to give it protection, like shoes, sleeping bag, etc. They've destroyed 3 duffles now, but the pack has been fine. I've carried on a bookbag type backpack, but they gave me a hard time, because it was stuffed to the hilt.
Footslogger
07-16-2006, 10:42
We just flew back from Boston to Denver (connecting in Cinci) and carried our packs on the plane. Not so much as a word from TSA or the flight attendants. We mailed home all of the potentially problematic stuff like tent stakes and stoves. Packs went right through xray with our trekking poles attached to the outside and not a single question or comment ...other than a few questions from TSA'ers who are also backpackers and who wanted to know where we had been hiking.
'Slogger
We just flew back from Boston to Denver (connecting in Cinci) and carried our packs on the plane. Not so much as a word from TSA or the flight attendants. We mailed home all of the potentially problematic stuff like tent stakes and stoves. Packs went right through xray with our trekking poles attached to the outside and not a single question or comment ...other than a few questions from TSA'ers who are also backpackers and who wanted to know where we had been hiking.
'Slogger
How big are your packs? Don't they have to fit into that little sizing square basket?
This isn't pack related, but kinda of. In Feb coming back from Las Vegas I was stopped by TSA because of the flexible metal stays in my knee braces. There's one guy that knows me better than my Doctor if you get my drift.:confused: :confused: :confused:
My wife has to use a cane, they made her walk through the metal detector (without her cane) and x-ray'd her cane.
Footslogger
07-16-2006, 18:08
How big are your packs? Don't they have to fit into that little sizing square basket?
============================
We both have Granite Gear Vapor Trails packs. We typically don't travel with food bags so the packs are pretty streamlined. Never have been asked to stick them in those little "size-wise" thingees so not sure whether they'd fit or not. We board with them on our backs and generally just have a small fanny pack or ditty bag in our hands with stuff we need acess to during the flight.
Only time we've ever had to check them was on a connection where the plane was a puddle jumper. We walked out to the plane with them on our backs and they gave us a pink ticket and "gate checked" them planeside.
'Slogger
fiddlehead
07-16-2006, 23:49
Most world travellers use backpacks to keep their stuff in.
Most of them fly.
So, it's not something that the airlines hasn't seen.
One time, i was searched and they made a huge fuss over mud that was on my pack. When i told them the mud came from the upper reaches of the Amazon, they called in dogs, qauarantine, and a few other personell to help with the search. It was quite a crowd. Luckily my girlfriend had the illegal arrows we brought back in her pack.
So, yeah, you never know what they are going to have a problem with, but packs is something they see all the time.
When I flew to Australia back in the 90's I got 2 of the biggest pieces of soft luggage the airline would allow and put all my stuff in there, including food and my regular cloths for times not backpacking, I carried a Sierra Woodburning stove, so no problem with the fuel thing. I was searched in NSW and had no problem, surprisingly even the bic lighter passed thru. I always pack my pack in the vicinity of my trip beginning, just to make sure nothing is broken or had been stolen by luggage handlers or transporters. Be bad to get out there (after paying for shuttle and miles in the woods) only to find your water filter, stove, or headlamp had been stolen or damaged.
BlackCloud
07-17-2006, 13:42
DO NOT attempt to fly w/ a stove. They'll take it.....:mad:
Footslogger
07-17-2006, 13:47
DO NOT attempt to fly w/ a stove. They'll take it.....:mad:
=========================
Probably more true for the propane/butane types. I've flown with my Trangia in my pack several times. I empty out the fuel reservoir and allow any remaining alcohol to evaporate.
'Slogger
DO NOT attempt to fly w/ a stove. They'll take it.....:mad:
I have flown with my pocket rocket and alcohol stoves before and they have never taken them. I just put them in my pack and check it. I carry on my matches (no problems there either)
If they smell fuel inside the bottle or stove, its history. Wash beforehand or carry new bottle.
StarLyte
07-17-2006, 15:30
As a previous travel agency owner and travel consultant to clients with special travel needs, I am telling you do not ever assume anything with the airlines, no matter what they tell you on the phone or what you read on the internet. Don't even assume that your airline ticket is booked until you call back to verify it.
Have an enjoyable hike.
BlackCloud
07-17-2006, 17:13
I have flown with my pocket rocket and alcohol stoves before and they have never taken them. I just put them in my pack and check it. I carry on my matches (no problems there either)
If they detect with the check-in luggage x-ray or by hand search, they will take it.
Been there & done it on a domestic flight. We're talking an empty Peak 1 here.....
RockyTrail
07-17-2006, 17:52
As a previous travel agency owner and travel consultant to clients with special travel needs, I am telling you do not ever assume anything with the airlines, no matter what they tell you on the phone or what you read on the internet. Don't even assume that your airline ticket is booked until you call back to verify it.
StarLyte you are on-target!
You are exactly right, there isn't anything certain about the airlines!
I've been fooled by those disorganiztions more than I care to admit.
We both have Granite Gear Vapor Trails packs. 'Slogger
I bought my latitude vapor with this very issue in mind. Hipbelt comes off easy which makes it so much easier to put overhead on the plane. The panel loading is great in case they want to go through your stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewker
I have flown with my pocket rocket and alcohol stoves before and they have never taken them. I just put them in my pack and check it. I carry on my matches (no problems there either)
If they detect with the check-in luggage x-ray or by hand search, they will take it.
Been there & done it on a domestic flight. We're talking an empty Peak 1 here.....
are you talking about the stove or matches. Stoves (either one) are in my pack and put in a large duffle bag and checked in. I tell them that there is backpacking gear in the duffle. I carry the matches on with me. I lay them in the pan so they can see them.
Nightwalker
07-18-2006, 02:25
And boy, are my arms tired!
BlackCloud
07-18-2006, 09:03
Quote:
are you talking about the stove or matches. Stoves (either one) are in my pack and put in a large duffle bag and checked in. I tell them that there is backpacking gear in the duffle. I carry the matches on with me. I lay them in the pan so they can see them.
They once took out the empty stove from my checked-in luggage & handed the lighter & pot set back to me.....
They once took out the empty stove from my checked-in luggage & handed the lighter & pot set back to me.....
luckily that hasn't happened to me. I would be raising hell with them ifthey did.
I did have an airlines take my glasses repair kit. The guy was worried about the tiny screwdriver that comes with it. I told the guy my arm would get tired before I could stab him to death...lol
When I got back home I called the airlines and raised hell over it. The airlines agreed with me and sent me a free round trip ticket to anywhere they flew.
BlackCloud
07-19-2006, 15:28
luckily that hasn't happened to me. I would be raising hell with them ifthey did.
I did have an airlines take my glasses repair kit. The guy was worried about the tiny screwdriver that comes with it. I told the guy my arm would get tired before I could stab him to death...lol
When I got back home I called the airlines and raised hell over it. The airlines agreed with me and sent me a free round trip ticket to anywhere they flew.
Same. They mailed me my stove.
I'm sure I'm going to blasted here but anyway.
I work for TSA. you know, the people that check your luggage for prohibited items and remove them. I know, go ahead and hate me. I'm just doing my job to keep the airways safe. Do you want to be the person that decides who gets to carry what on a plane or would you rather have an agency that has guidelines to follow that are applied to everyone equally? (most of the time...many times it is the interpretation of the supervisor on duty at the time....I know, I have argued with my supervisor many times)
Gumby, I'm sure the TSA personnel did not make you wife walk without her cane. They probably asked her if she could walk without it through the metal detector and then receive it on the other side after it had gone through the x-ray machine. If she had said "NO, I cannot walk without it" they would have taken her through and conducted a hand-held metal detector wanding of her person and processed her that way. And YES, we x-ray canes. Have you never seen canes that are actually a sword? I'm sure your wife is not a terrorist, but do you want to be the one that picks the terrorists out and let the others through with minimal searching? Think of drug dealers. How many times have you heard about the 80 year old grandma that's selling drugs. Doesn't fit the profile! She must be ok. But she wasn't. I don't know what all of you do for employment, but let me tell you, having the responsibility of protecting a airplane from terrorists is not something to take lightly. How would you feel if your loved one was on a plane that was destroyed? You would blame the TSA for not doing their job. I know it is a hassle and a pain in the ass and sometimes it feels like personal invasion. However, it is necessary to provide the best security we can as humans.
Now with all that being said. If ANYONE has any questions concerning TSA regulations, send me an email. I will check the regs, ask a supervisor, (not my security manager...he's an idiot) and will get back to you with the answers you seek.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1012.shtm
Here is the TSA site that has links to the prohibited items list and other good information about TSA finding prohibited items in you baggage and what you options are.
The post about the screwdriver for your glasses...that changed in dec 2005. You can carry tools that are seven inches or less.
any questions, email me. Thanks.
StarLyte
07-19-2006, 23:23
Dear Coopdog....
You are very brave. I'd like to shoot my IATAN squirt gun at you if I may though.
We are ALL concerned about what will be allowed in our luggage as well as carry-ons. Our fears are justified.
Many are bookmarking your name as I write this.
Thanks for coming out...:D
RockyTrail
07-20-2006, 10:24
Coopdog, keep up the good work. I've never really had much problem with the TSA, it was always those idiot local "security" people we used to have at ATL in the pre-9/11 days. One of them took apart a zoom lens once and ruined it in the process, no apologies or anything. You fellows seem so much more professional!
My son and I made an unplanned 1-way flight with our backpacks; we were "randomly selected" for a full check, or so they said. They checked everything in our gear, even our checked baggage stuff but I couldn't believe how polite they were, I thought it was going to be one of those KGB interrogation sessions! But it all worked out OK and they could not have been nicer.
You mentioned canes as swords; I hope y'all have a way to check those telescoping luggage handles, I've always wondered about that. Last time I was at ATL, there was a box full of lighters that people had dropped off. On top of the pile was a HUGE folding knife/ brass knuckles combo tool.
What WERE they thinking?:eek: Somebody must have had a coronary when they found that in their pocket while waiting in line!
BlackCloud
07-20-2006, 12:12
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1012.shtm
Here is the TSA site that has links to the prohibited items list and other good information about TSA finding prohibited items in you baggage and what you options are.
I can't believe that strike anywhere matches in checked luggage can't go...:cool:
I can't believe that strike anywhere matches in checked luggage can't go...:cool:
they think that the matches may rub against something and start a fire. I just take strike on box matches with me.
This last trip a friend took a bic lighter on with her. She put it in the pan that goes thru the x-ray machine..no problems...that makes you feel safe doesn't it :eek:
BlackCloud
07-20-2006, 14:39
they think that the matches may rub against something and start a fire. I just take strike on box matches with me.
This last trip a friend took a bic lighter on with her. She put it in the pan that goes thru the x-ray machine..no problems...that makes you feel safe doesn't it :eek:
It's all a big joke.
Sadly it's on us...........
and yes...strike anywhere matches can rub together and ignite.
and I'm sorry you think it is a joke...and by the way...what do YOU do for a living that is helping mankind???
the one who posted about a last minute one-way flight...yes you are selected for additional screening...but not by the TSA. The airline companies have a set of parameters, that if you hit one of those criteria, THE AIRLINES selects you for additional screening. We at the TSA just do our job by doing the additional screening. Yes we do check telescoping handles in luggage (at my airport). You could help too. When you place you handled luggage on the belt for x-ray...go ahead and extend the handle before it goes through. thanks
those of you with words of encouragement....thank you for them and for your understanding when you fly. My original statement about questions still stands. Be safe out there.
Footslogger
07-21-2006, 11:01
[quote=COOPDOG]those of you with words of encouragement....thank you for them and for your understanding when you fly.
========================
For what it's worth COOP ...I've had nothing but positive experience regarding TSA and airport security in general. Pretty common sense but what I've found is that if you give yourself plenty of time and just answer any questions when asked, without copping a tude, you will not have a problem. Even in cases where I have been challenged (such as the first time I flew out of Denver with my hiking poles) I just asked them to check their regs in detail and reiterated that what I was carrying was classified as a "collapsable walking stick". After reviewing the regs the TSA agent actually thanked me for the educational opportunity (his words).
'Slogger
BlackCloud
07-21-2006, 11:23
and yes...strike anywhere matches can rub together and ignite.
and I'm sorry you think it is a joke...and by the way...what do YOU do for a living that is helping mankind???
If you must know, I work for the the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, where I spend my day trying to prevent, detect, and otherwise thrwart terrorist financing, money laundering, and all other manner of crimes that undermine our financial systems.
I didn't say YOU were a joke. Airport security is a joke. TSA screening is a joke; FAMS is a mess, etc. I know and work w/ people in these ( and every other) agencies, and I KNOW its a joke. That doesn't stop us from trying.
And I thought you were a nice guy for offering advice & posting the list of prohibited items.
I'm sure I'm going to blasted here but anyway.
I work for TSA. you know, the people that check your luggage for prohibited items and remove them. I know, go ahead and hate me. I'm just doing my job to keep the airways safe. Do you want to be the person that decides who gets to carry what on a plane or would you rather have an agency that has guidelines to follow that are applied to everyone equally? (most of the time...many times it is the interpretation of the supervisor on duty at the time....I know, I have argued with my supervisor many times)
Gumby, I'm sure the TSA personnel did not make you wife walk without her cane. They probably asked her if she could walk without it through the metal detector and then receive it on the other side after it had gone through the x-ray machine. If she had said "NO, I cannot walk without it" they would have taken her through and conducted a hand-held metal detector wanding of her person and processed her that way. And YES, we x-ray canes. Have you never seen canes that are actually a sword? I'm sure your wife is not a terrorist, but do you want to be the one that picks the terrorists out and let the others through with minimal searching? Think of drug dealers. How many times have you heard about the 80 year old grandma that's selling drugs. Doesn't fit the profile! She must be ok. But she wasn't. I don't know what all of you do for employment, but let me tell you, having the responsibility of protecting a airplane from terrorists is not something to take lightly. How would you feel if your loved one was on a plane that was destroyed? You would blame the TSA for not doing their job. I know it is a hassle and a pain in the ass and sometimes it feels like personal invasion. However, it is necessary to provide the best security we can as humans.
Now with all that being said. If ANYONE has any questions concerning TSA regulations, send me an email. I will check the regs, ask a supervisor, (not my security manager...he's an idiot) and will get back to you with the answers you seek.
Yes, they did ask her, She said she needed her cane. They let here use her hands on the sides of the metal detector. Then gave her cane back.
I know where you are coming from I was in the US Air Force Intelligence and worked as a terrorist analyst amongst other things. I have been thru airports that make TSA look like cub scout camp. (Try Tel Aviv). You have a tough job, but as you said it is the interpretation of the regulations. Ask five people to interpret the same regulation and you'll probably get five answers.
With all that said, Keep up the good work.
Marc
doodah man
07-21-2006, 12:35
I'm sure I'm going to blasted here but anyway.
I work for TSA. you know, the people that check your luggage for prohibited items and remove them. I know, go ahead and hate me. I'm just doing my job to keep the airways safe. Do you want to be the person that decides who gets to carry what on a plane or would you rather have an agency that has guidelines to follow that are applied to everyone equally? (most of the time...many times it is the interpretation of the supervisor on duty at the time....I know, I have argued with my supervisor many times)
Gumby, I'm sure the TSA personnel did not make you wife walk without her cane. They probably asked her if she could walk without it through the metal detector and then receive it on the other side after it had gone through the x-ray machine. If she had said "NO, I cannot walk without it" they would have taken her through and conducted a hand-held metal detector wanding of her person and processed her that way. And YES, we x-ray canes. Have you never seen canes that are actually a sword? I'm sure your wife is not a terrorist, but do you want to be the one that picks the terrorists out and let the others through with minimal searching? Think of drug dealers. How many times have you heard about the 80 year old grandma that's selling drugs. Doesn't fit the profile! She must be ok. But she wasn't. I don't know what all of you do for employment, but let me tell you, having the responsibility of protecting a airplane from terrorists is not something to take lightly. How would you feel if your loved one was on a plane that was destroyed? You would blame the TSA for not doing their job. I know it is a hassle and a pain in the ass and sometimes it feels like personal invasion. However, it is necessary to provide the best security we can as humans.
Now with all that being said. If ANYONE has any questions concerning TSA regulations, send me an email. I will check the regs, ask a supervisor, (not my security manager...he's an idiot) and will get back to you with the answers you seek.
Hey Coopdog, I hear you... I will say that so far my experience by TSA personnel has been pretty sensible. One thing that always confuses me, however, is hearing about occasional confiscation of a backpack stove that has a tiny bit of fuel residue. My wife flew on an extended business trip last week and in her bath-kit was: Nail polish, nail polish remover (acetone), purell hand sanitizer (ethyl alcohol), all of which are pretty flammable. Didn't think to check but she probably also had a mini-sized purell in her handbag (she is a public health nurse and always on germ patrol). So I don't understand the point of this selective removal when a 3 oz bottle of acetone is far more flammable than a alcohol stove with a trace of residue. I know it is not your call but the regulations seem a bit arbitrary. As I am planning on doing a thru on the AT next year that is one of the factors I will have to deal with is making it to the start with all my gear. --doodah man
doodah, I agree about all of the "personal hygiene items" that can be carried on a plane even though they are flammable. I have argued the point myself. Your wife can carry all of that on but try and carry static guard and we won't let you have it! It's not, as the reg states "for use on your body" even though you use it for your clothes. go figure.
blackcloud, my apologies. in the position you are in then we two are doing our part. I agree that it isn't strict enough compared to other countries airports but It's the best we have right now and hopefully some change will come from within. I'm trying. I just take offense when people blast the TSA for trying to keep them safe in the air. It will take another disaster for it to get better. I hate to say that but it's probably true.
Read the website information, get there early, divest of everything metal (this is the big one...oh..I forgot my cellphone?!?), and answer questions and as someone else stated...if they try and take your "walking sticks" point out the regulation to them and hopefully they will agree and thank you.
thanks for all of the positive comments about what we at TSA are doing. Later.