Welcome to Maine

[Frosty]

Too many tourists can definitely be too much of a good thing. The least important tourist, in my mind, is the backpacker wilderness seeker granola eater who spends almost nothing here, but demands that we place a lot of land off-limits to suit their fine sense of the environment and protect their experience. Send them to Spain.

George Smith, Executive Director of the Sportsmans Alliance of Maine, in the Kennebec Journal.

http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/view/columns/2897902.shtml

[Cookerhiker]

Hmm, let's see. Last year hiking from Gorham to Maine, I spent two nights at Andover Guest House, two at the Stattom Motel/hostel, one at Shaw's, one paid night at Katahdin Stream CG, and one near Portland on my way home. The trip home included paying for gas, presumably Maine has a gas tax. I bought meals at all those places plus Rangely and Millinocket. I cut down my normal content on maildrops and bought a lot of my food at local groceries. My friend Northern Harrier drove my car up to Baxter to meet me so there were also his expenses.

So how does Mr. Smith's reasoning figure here? There were other hikers I met in all the above mentioned places, spending their money as well. What the hell is he talking about?:-? Is he claiming that we backpackers spend proportionately less than other tourists? Even if so, as a former boss of mine once said, "something beats nothing."

Like often occurs in matters of political discourse, his assertion is motivated by an ideology & his personal agenda. This is apparent from is stereotyping description; a caricature which perhaps depicts 1% of the backpackers.

[Cookerhiker]

Hmm, let's see. Last year hiking from Gorham to Maine, I spent two nights at Andover Guest House, two at the Stattom Motel/hostel, one at Shaw's, one paid night at Katahdin Stream CG, and one near Portland on my way home. The trip home inlcuded paying for gas, presumably Maine has a gos tax. I bought meals at all those places plus Rangely and Millinocket. I cut down my normal content on maildrops and bought a lot of my food at local groceries. My friend Northern Harrier drove my car up to Baxter to meet me so there were also his expenses.

So how does Mr. Smith's reasoning figure here? There were other hikers I met in all the above mentioned places, spending their money as well. What the hell is he talking about?:-? Is he claiming that we backpackers spend proportionately less than other tourists? Even if so, as a former boss of mine once said, "something beats nothing."

Like often occurs in matters of political discourse, his assertion is motivated by an ideology & his personal agenda. This is apparent from is stereotyping description; a caricature which perhaps depicts 1% of the backpackers.

PS - I forgot; I also stayed in Bethel and at Ferryman's in Caratunk and spent more money there.

[weary]

Too many tourists can definitely be too much of a good thing. The least important tourist, in my mind, is the backpacker wilderness seeker granola eater who spends almost nothing here, but demands that we place a lot of land off-limits to suit their fine sense of the environment and protect their experience. Send them to Spain.

George Smith, Executive Director of the Sportsmans Alliance of Maine, in the Kennebec Journal.

http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/view/columns/2897902.shtml
George Smith is a right wing ideologue who somehow has convinced hunters and fishermen to pay him big money for his political babblings. Unfortunately his position and support among so called sportsmen gives him great power with the Maine Legislature. More than anyone else he is responsible for the long fight over expanding Baxter State Park to include Katahdin Lake and the "compromise" that cut the size of the expansion in half.

His meddling also made it impossible for the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust to keep a 20,000 acre plot of public land that buffered the AT near Bigelow out of the complex deal.

Weary

[Lone Wolf]

Too many tourists can definitely be too much of a good thing. The least important tourist, in my mind, is the backpacker wilderness seeker granola eater who spends almost nothing here, but demands that we place a lot of land off-limits to suit their fine sense of the environment and protect their experience. Send them to Spain.

George Smith, Executive Director of the Sportsmans Alliance of Maine, in the Kennebec Journal.

http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/view/columns/2897902.shtml
He's right, the majority of hikers spend very little as far as tourists. Same here in Damascus. The Creeper Trail is making this a boom town. Not the backpackers.

[Skyline]

He's right, the majority of hikers spend very little as far as tourists. Same here in Damascus. The Creeper Trail is making this a boom town. Not the backpackers.


Biggest event each year in Damascus is directly linked to AT hikers/backpackers--not Creeper Trail users. And I know you know blue-blazing AT hikers (and others) use the Creeper Trail, too :-)

AT hikers and VCT bicyclists both add a lot to the Damascus economy. Doesn't make sense to pit one against the other. We usually all get along fine.

[kyhipo]

He's right, the majority of hikers spend very little as far as tourists. Same here in Damascus. The Creeper Trail is making this a boom town. Not the backpackers.thats very true my last 3 trips to damascus has been with family,and almost all of them enjoy the creeper trail more than anything,and they just love staying at the lake above damascus,the camp grounds are very nice for family.ky

[Lone Wolf]

Biggest event each year in Damascus is directly linked to AT hikers/backpackers--not Creeper Trail users. And I know you know blue-blazing AT hikers (and others) use the Creeper Trail, too :-)

AT hikers and VCT bicyclists both add a lot to the Damascus economy. Doesn't make sense to pit one against the other. We usually all get along fine.
It ain't about pitting one against the the other. It's bottom line $$$. Lotsa new B & B's and other businesses have opened in the past 5 years or so solely because of the Creeper Trail. Bikers will spend more $ this weekend than hikers will spend all year here in town, not including Trail Days.

[Skidsteer]

Too many tourists can definitely be too much of a good thing. The least important tourist, in my mind, is the backpacker wilderness seeker granola eater who spends almost nothing here, but demands that we place a lot of land off-limits to suit their fine sense of the environment and protect their experience. Send them to Spain.


George Smith is a right wing ideologue who somehow has convinced hunters and fishermen to pay him big money for his political babblings. Unfortunately his position and support among so called sportsmen gives him great power with the Maine Legislature.
Weary

There's nothing inherently false in his statement though, Weary. Not when looked at from a standpoint of money. Hunters and fisherman spend more money in Maine than backpackers. Simple-whether he's a right wing idealogue or not.

If you leave roads out of the equation, sportsmen and hikers generally share some common goals pertaining to the outdoors.

[Cookerhiker]

Even if hunters/fishermen do spend more money, so what? What's the point? Hikers still spend some $$$$. Unlike hunters/ fisherman, hikers don't require game or fisheries management (and also don't pay for licenses, fees, I know, I know).

George Smith's fixed and rigid ideology blinds him from looking at the real world/ Maybe he should get out of his ATV, walk a few miles, meet some hikers, hang out at the Stratton Motel or Shaws and see what hikers are really like (and note for himself that we do spend money). Like I said before, something beats nothing.

So Smith is a right-wing ideologue? Then he's not representing his "sportsmen" constituency very well. Taken to its logical conclusion, right-wing ideology results in no public lands, no conservation, no water pollution controls, no standards on air quality, and ultimately, no hunting grounds (or wildlife for the "sportsmen" to hunt) as real estate development runs amuck.

[soad]

Sound like Smith wants to set up a wall around Maine and only let the rich folks in.

[TOW]

He's right, the majority of hikers spend very little as far as tourists. Same here in Damascus. The Creeper Trail is making this a boom town. Not the backpackers.I'll have to disagree with you on that and not on the basis of not having lived here as long as you have. From what I have witnessed there are a good deal of thru hikers as well as section hikers spending money here and in the towns along the trail. There are a few who make it seem that the whole do not spend money and expect everyone to be there to bend over and kiss there behinds. I know for a fact that when I resided here in 2001 that Mt Rogers Outfitters as well as the local cafes made a killing and I'm sure this year is no different. Not all hikers who come thru here stay in The Place. During the height of the season and even now there are a few hikers staying in the local B&B's as well as some of the Motels over in Abingdon. However I do agree that the Creeper Trail along with the fishermen and car campers are the ones who bring the big dollars through here.

[weary]

Even if hunters/fishermen do spend more money, so what? What's the point? Hikers still spend some $$$$. Unlike hunters/ fisherman, hikers don't require game or fisheries management (and also don't pay for licenses, fees, I know, I know).

George Smith's fixed and rigid ideology blinds him from looking at the real world/ Maybe he should get out of his ATV, walk a few miles, meet some hikers, hang out at the Stratton Motel or Shaws and see what hikers are really like (and note for himself that we do spend money). Like I said before, something beats nothing.

So Smith is a right-wing ideologue? Then he's not representing his "sportsmen" constituency very well. Taken to its logical conclusion, right-wing ideology results in no public lands, no conservation, no water pollution controls, no standards on air quality, and ultimately, no hunting grounds (or wildlife for the "sportsmen" to hunt) as real estate development runs amuck.
Hunters and hikers should be natural allies, but they are not, at least in Maine. I ran for the State Senate twelve years ago. Smith's organization supported my opponent who had one of the worst environmental record of any incumbent in the Legislature. She opposed every effort to preserve public land, every effort to protect wildlife habitat.

I have a wall full of plaques and certificates from people thinking I was responsible for the preservation of a half million acres of public land, all of which is open for hunting and fishing and hiking. But I knew I would lose the Sportsmen's endorsement when I missed a critical question on their political questionaire. I said I would oppose new shooting ranges in residential neighborhoods. So I endorsed only 99 percent of their priorities. In their minds thousands of acres of public land preserved doesn't outweigh outdoor shooting ranges in residential neighborhoods.

As for "There's nothing inherently false in his statement." claim. I disagree. Hikers may spend less than hunters and fishermen, but they do spend significant amounts of money -- even in Damascus. Several kids in 1993 dumped the last of their AT bankrolls at the Pizza place-beer hall, while I was there. A sad event, but true.

Weary.

[Sly]

Of course hikers don't spend as much, they spend most of their time on the trail and their nights camping in the woods, but they still spend money when they reach town.

It's NOT all about money and neither should it be..

[Gypsy"04"]

I've been to Damascus for trail days twice now and I know our group spent a decent sum of money both times. I also live in Maine, so when I go hiking, I spend money here also. It should not be about money, but it is. It should be about quality of life for all.There are just too damn many people on this earth and its getting to the point where no one can understand why we should save some wilderness for the pure sake of it being there for everyones enjoyment. If you chose to use it, great. If you chose not to, thats great also. It leaves a lot more for me to enjoy.
Believe me, I moved to Maine from Florida for the wilderness, because so many people have moved there, it has become a paved over parking lot. If that is what this world is coming to, which it is, I feel sorry for all on it. If I had my way, I would probably just live in a tent and watch the rest of the world go by. Oh my, it sounds like I've got an anti-social disease!

[Singe03]

Hunters and hikers should be natural allies, but they are not, at least in Maine.

I totally agree, but it does not happen much that I am aware of and largely because of the whole liberal / conservative divide. Many hunters are basically conservative, many hikers are basically liberal (I'm not) and it seems both camps would rather argue about who should be the next president or whether people should be allowed to own guns than work together on the conservation issues we agree on.

I pray that one day the generally sensible center of this country will realize how badly it outnumbers the right and left wings and demand change.

[weary]

....Many hunters are basically conservative, many hikers are basically liberal (I'm not) and it seems both camps would rather argue about who should be the next president or whether people should be allowed to own guns than work together on the conservation issues we agree on.

I pray that one day the generally sensible center of this country will realize how badly it outnumbers the right and left wings and demand change.
Many hunters think they are conservative, mostly, I suspect, because they haven't been paying attention. They vote REpublican because they think that is the conservative position -- the position that best protects their right to hunt and fish.

But the half of Maine with no municipal governments -- the wildlands, the wilderness, if you insist -- used to be owned mostly by paper companies and used for growing wood to supply raw materials for their mills. This vast forest made Maine unique in the east. It's why most thru hikers find Maine the wildest, most remote portion of the entire trail. It's also why "conservative" hunters vote REpublican "to keep Maine as it is."

Unfortunately, except for the relatively few acres sold to the state and conservation groups, the companies have sold all their holdings to developers, subject only to a few more years of harvesting until their mills are finally closed.

The state has had opportunities to pick up some of this land -- a chance to preserve a bit of the wildness that makes Maine unique. Allegedly "conservative" Republicans have repeatedly opposed passing bond issue initiatives for confirmation by the state voters.

Why? The land bond issues typically pass voter scrutiny by 2-1 margins. And for reasons only they can explain, Maine REpublicans seem to prefer development of the wildlands to conservation of the wildlands.

The real mystery is why alleged "sportsmen" conservatives vote against their own best interest, vote against the preservation of the land needed for hunting and fishing.

And no. This is not an emminent domain issue. The land bond issues have only purchased land offered for sale by willing sellers.

Weary

[bigben]

If I, being from Ohio, wanted to say, go to Maine and shoot a black bear or a moose, not counting travel expenses for me getting to Maine, that trip would cost several thousand dollars for a long weekend. AT thru-hikers walk 2200 miles over 6 months and only spend several thousand dollars. Hunting and fishing are major money-generating pasttimes, and hiking/backpacking really isn't. I don't hunt, so I'm not "defending" hunters, and it's not just Maine. I was in Georgia for a week this May for a 5 day section of the AT. Again, not counting travel costs, I MAYBE spent $200, and that includes 2 hostel nights, 9lbs of trout at Cloud9 in Hiawassee, 2 shuttle rides, restaurant food, and some stuff at Mountain Crossings.

I think what infuriates about that guys statement is the stereotype he uses of hikers. It got me a little POed. But from a fininncial/tourism point of view, he's pretty much correct.

Bigben

[Lone Wolf]

I'll have to disagree with you on that and not on the basis of not having lived here as long as you have. From what I have witnessed there are a good deal of thru hikers as well as section hikers spending money here and in the towns along the trail. There are a few who make it seem that the whole do not spend money and expect everyone to be there to bend over and kiss there behinds. I know for a fact that when I resided here in 2001 that Mt Rogers Outfitters as well as the local cafes made a killing and I'm sure this year is no different. Not all hikers who come thru here stay in The Place. During the height of the season and even now there are a few hikers staying in the local B&B's as well as some of the Motels over in Abingdon. However I do agree that the Creeper Trail along with the fishermen and car campers are the ones who bring the big dollars through here.
Whatever. My point is hikers don't spend like mobile tourists. If the AT was rerouted out of town, Damascus wouldn't suffer.

[fishinfred]

Of course hikers don't spend as much, they spend most of their time on the trail and their nights camping in the woods, but they still spend money when they reach town.

It's NOT all about money and neither should it be..

So true ! Hikers,Bikers,Hunters,and ALL outdoor enthusiasts need to stand together to stop the encroachment of developement on and near OUR National (and STATE) Parks not bicker about who spends more .
EVERY LITTLE BIT LOST... is LOST TO ALL and LOST FOREVER!:mad:

We are LUCKY we have what we have now thanks to "peoples" efforts in the past.
What about the future generations of Outdoor Enthusiasts ? Where will they escape to and how much will be left ?

FORGET THE $$$$$ SAVE THE LAND .......... WE ALL USE AND LOVE

Everyone in this country should be concerned and "IT" shouldn't be about the money eithor.
PEACE
Fishinfred

[mdionne]

as we all know "thru hikers" make up an iota of the people who backpack on the AT every year, let alone all of maine. if he wants to get rid of all the backpakcing granola types in maine then he should have started back in the sixties when hippies moved in and started setting up communes here, but he probably sold the land to them instead. acadia alone attracts 3 million visitors per year, i'm willing to bet a few of those users are carrying backpacks and using the trails. maine sells more out of state permits for deer hunting than any other game species and draws 150,000 out of state deer hunters per year. the man, smith, doesn't take into account the number of trail systems here in maine and the number of people using them. the trail systems here generate much more money when you take into account the number of week long vacationers and weekenders that use them.

just so he knows, i can only guess the granola type are supporting organic farming, the largest growing agricultural sector in maine. the dairy farmers can hardly keep up with the demand right now. from what i understand some are having powder shipped from out of state to meet the demand. i think this is also helping our economy. i wonder what he is doing to help our economy, it look to me like he is hurting it more than anything.

[TOW]

Whatever. My point is hikers don't spend like mobile tourists. If the AT was rerouted out of town, Damascus wouldn't suffer.I'll go along with you on that............

[Gypsy"04"]

We have spent billions of OUR tax dollars for national parks over the past 80 years or so. Why do we build national parks for tourists with huge gas-guzzling RV's so the weekend campers can show their kids an actual live bear and feed that bear so it will eventually have to be killed, yet we can't spend some of OUR tax dollars preserving a strip of land maybe 30 feet wide that goes across this beautiful country for people that really appreciate what the magnitude of nature really is? Because it makes sense, and politicians don't have common sense. They only understand $$$$$.

Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Gypsy"04"

[TOW]

We have spent billions of OUR tax dollars for national parks over the past 80 years or so. Why do we build national parks for tourists with huge gas-guzzling RV's so the weekend campers can show their kids an actual live bear and feed that bear so it will eventually have to be killed, yet we can't spend some of OUR tax dollars preserving a strip of land maybe 30 feet wide that goes across this beautiful country for people that really appreciate what the magnitude of nature really is? Because it makes sense, and politicians don't have common sense. They only understand $$$$$.

Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Gypsy"04"in case you haven't been informed, money talks and people listen...........and even go along with it whether it is good for them or bad for them.....all most people do, me included, is think about RIGHT NOW! and how am i gonna benefit from this............but we have to come back to reality....if we want to preserve a vital piece of land that we think we might want to enjoy or others may enjoy, then either we are going to have to reach into our own pockets or raise about the same amount of money to persuade the majority to see it our way.......picketing, name calling, polling, or canvassing and lobbying for votes simply ain't going to cut it........we are up against money so it will take money to fight it....and most of us earthy lovers just don't have it.............so we got to roll with the punches and if we just happen to win then about 110 years from now hollywood will make a movie depicting all the violence and blood that got spilled in the process and uplifting the solitary hero that made it all happen.....

[RITBlake]

It ain't about pitting one against the the other. It's bottom line $$$. Lotsa new B & B's and other businesses have opened in the past 5 years or so solely because of the Creeper Trail.

Just to take this off topic real quick, what exactly is the big draw to the creeper trail? We have a similar paved bike path that runs for 30 miles in CT but it doesn't receive even a fraction of the attention or popularity that that the creeper trail has. Maybe the scenery is just nicer?

After a 30 mile day in to Damascus it took every bit of will power to resist that smooth, paved path. Kind of neat though walking along side it on the AT and watching families and kids enjoying themselves.

[Lone Wolf]

Just to take this off topic real quick, what exactly is the big draw to the creeper trail? We have a similar paved bike path that runs for 30 miles in CT but it doesn't receive even a fraction of the attention or popularity that that the creeper trail has. Maybe the scenery is just nicer?

After a 30 mile day in to Damascus it took every bit of will power to resist that smooth, paved path. Kind of neat though walking along side it on the AT and watching families and kids enjoying themselves.
It's very scenic and very easy to ride for the whole family. And fairly cheap for rentals and shuttles. It's not paved by the way. Hard packed cinder.

[orangebug]

I sure don't feel guilty about walking on the Creeper rather than walking up and down within 50 feet of it. Only reason I'd avoid the creeper would be to avoid bicycle traffic.

Yes, I blue blazed it in bad weather, and I'm proud of it! I even plan to ride it with my bride in about 3 weeks.

[Fofer]

Ok thats it I'm starting the Hiker party. we'll have a Mountain goat as the symbol and we'll buy any house going on the market anywhere in the country and knock it down let it go wild and make trails on the property.

All in favor take a hike!

[Gypsy"04"]

Ok thats it I'm starting the Hiker party. we'll have a Mountain goat as the symbol and we'll buy any house going on the market anywhere in the country and knock it down let it go wild and make trails on the property.

All in favor take a hike!

I'll go along with that. It's got to be better that an ass and an elephant, because we know their full of crap most of the time.

[RITBlake]

It's very scenic and very easy to ride for the whole family. And fairly cheap for rentals and shuttles. It's not paved by the way. Hard packed cinder.

Interesting, it's good to know that people in the area are taking advantage of it being there.

anyway, back on topic