4 Pines Hostel in Catawba VA

[gumball]

Does anyone know if this is still open? I tried to call the number i had, and it was disconnected. Thanks! Gum

[Lone Wolf]

Ain't no more hostel.

[Kerosene]

Nope. They were looking to sell last year.

[StarLyte]

Yeah will someone give me the down payment and financing so I can buy this? What a dream. :cool:

[Lone Wolf]

A dream? To own a hostel? What a nightmare. For me anyway. Me likes hikers from a distance.:cool:

[StarLyte]

A dream? To own a hostel? What a nightmare. For me anyway. Me likes hikers from a distance.:cool:

I hear ya LW.

Janet took me to Kincora Hostel once. She said to me "this is the closest thing anyone can have to an AT hostel experience".....I'll never forget that.

I've always wanted to own a hostel on the AT, nothing fancy, only provisions, but a nice homey, comfortable atmosphere for hikers and anyone else passing thru.

To me, owning a hostel has nothing to do with becoming wealthy or even financially comfortable. I wish it were a different world where money didn't mean anything.

Marsha

[gumball]

Thanks folks...was planning to stay there...guess not!

[Lone Wolf]

I hear ya LW.

Janet took me to Kincora Hostel once. She said to me "this is the closest thing anyone can have to an AT hostel experience".....I'll never forget that.

I've always wanted to own a hostel on the AT, nothing fancy, only provisions, but a nice homey, comfortable atmosphere for hikers and anyone else passing thru.

To me, owning a hostel has nothing to do with becoming wealthy or even financially comfortable. I wish it were a different world where money didn't mean anything.

Marsha
The only hostel I really ever enjoyed was Shaw's. Oh and The Braemer Castle in Hampton which no one goes to anymore. Kincora is O.K. but the Castle is classic.

[the goat]

The only hostel I really ever enjoyed was Shaw's. Oh and The Braemer Castle in Hampton which no one goes to anymore. Kincora is O.K. but the Castle is classic.

a group of us lazy sobos (in '01) hit the castle, and then kincora. it was thanksgiving and probably the slowest 8 miles of my thru, sweatin' gravy and moonshines the whole way.

i loved the castle, the owners are extremely nice folk, and very accomodating........as with kincora which goes w/o saying.

[neo]

my youngest son and i stayed there in june 2002,it was a haven for a bunch of drunk and rowdy hikers:cool: neo

[Jack Tarlin]

I also stayed there in 2002. It was a haven for hikers, period, and Joe Mitchell, the proprietor, was a fine man. Like most hostels, the vast majority of folks who passed thru there neither created nor experienced problems. Neo's comments are unkind and unwarranted.

[Blue Jay]

I also stayed there in 2002. It was a haven for hikers, period, and Joe Mitchell, the proprietor, was a fine man. Like most hostels, the vast majority of folks who passed thru there neither created nor experienced problems.

I stayed there three times over the years. I agree with Jack 100%. I can't comment on Neo's post as he's the only one on my ignore list.

[Red Hat]

In 2003, it was a wonderful haven after a very rough, rainy (thunderstormy!), scary day on Dragon's Tooth. Gotta agree with Jack and Blue Jay... loved it!

[MedicineMan]

i remember watching one of his kids (a son) do some amazing things on a 4 wheeler.....

[C'est La Vie]

I stayed there in 2004. Joe had a nice doe hanging in the garage when we showed up. He voluntarily moved it elsewhere so we could light the wood stove. Then drove us to the store for food. Joe said then he was closing down the hostel because he was getting too much grief including a poor review from those who never set foot in the place. I thought he was a good guy. If I remember correctly, there was no fee only a donation request.

[Moon Monster]

Joe told me in 2003 that he was even pondering writing a book of his experiences with hosteling at Four Pines. That was well before any negativity came his way.

As for Braemar Castle, it was such a nice place I zeroed there on a snowy day. It's definitely in the shadows of Kincora now with being so close.

[Footslogger]

my youngest son and i stayed there in june 2002,it was a haven for a bunch of drunk and rowdy hikers:cool: neo
=========================
Sure not consistent with my experience in 2003. Sure ...there was a beer box on-site and several hikers (including myself) knocked down a couple cold ones. But your comments are way out of line.

'Slogger

[max patch]

Seems like some of the usual suspects have a selective memory. This was posted on WB 3 years ago: Yeah, sounds like a great place.....

+++++++++++++

Just finished reading Moose's report from Trailjournals.com. To me it's quite disturbing
that an individual, calling himself a thru-hiker,
can ruin another's hike. Let it be known that FUBAR is an a$$ hole and should be shunned.

This is worth posting in it's entirety.



Moose's 2003
Appalachian Trail Journal

First Previous Next Last
Tuesday, June 10, 2003
Destination: 4 Pines Hostel
Starting Location: 4 Pines Hostel
Today's Miles: 0
Trip Miles: 688.1

Bad things sometimes happen to good people. In over 2000 miles of hiking on
the AT, I've never seen the kind of problem we encountered last night. I
hope neither we, nor anyone else, ever encounters it again.
We ran into a group of hikers in Pearisburg that really disturbed me. The
group, which called themselves the Rat Pack, consisted of about 8 hikers
with another half dozen or so hanging on. This group was staying at the same
motel as we were but divided up in 3 different rooms. One of the rooms they
were using was next to us. The hikers in the room were so loud and so drunk
that we asked to be moved. At 2 AM, the whole group returned from a night of
drinking and stood outside their motel rooms screaming at the top of their
lungs. When we talked to the motel manager about them, the manager indicated
they had numerous complaints about the whole group. Just a wonderful
representation of AT Hikers.

After we left Peariburg, we saw the group again at Pine Swamp Branch
Shelter. They had taken over the shelter and were spending their afternoon
smoking weed. We decided to camp away from the shelter to both minimize our
interaction with the group and to stay away from their cigarette, and other
substance, smoke which Popsicle is allergic to.

The next morning, we found the rest of the group camped next to the river in
a campsite littered with beer cans. They had obviously been drinking heavily
for the last several days. We thought we were done with the group because of
their decision to yellow blaze into town and stay with some other hikers
they had met.

The next day, we found the whole group camped next to another road. Once
again the site was littered with beer cans and it was obvious there had been
a large party there. We figured the group would not catch us since they
couldn't hike with the kind of hangovers they must of had.

We came to the section of trail that goes over Dragon's Tooth and ends at
VA624 close to Catawba, VA. We had already done 16 hard miles that day, the
next shelter was another 6 miles, and it was 6:30 PM. There were no
campsites listed in the Handbook until the next shelter. Our two options
were to either stay at the Four Pines Hostel or attempt to get into the Down
Home Bed and Breakfast. Popsicle called the B&B but they were full. We
decided we would have to go to the hostel. We had learned earlier in the day
that the entire Rat Pack group had either hiked or yellow blazed up to the
hostel. We were concerned about the noise and partying but figured we'd camp
away from the main building and it would be quiet enough.

When we arrived at the hostel, there was a huge party underway. Most of the
Rat Pack was consuming large quantities of beer. There was also several half
gallons of hard liquor being passed around. We later learned the hostel
owner, Joe Mitchell, had gone into town and purchased the half gallons for
these hikers. There were a number of highly intoxicated hikers but one in
particular stood out. FUBAR, have to wonder about someone who would take
that as a trailname, was the worst of the group. He was screaming and
hollering and just being a pain-in-the-ass kind of drunk. Although I was
concerned about the noise, I figured as drunk as everyone was they would
pass out early in the evening.
After cooking dinner and getting cleaned up, Popsicle and I retired to our
tents. There were 5 tents in the yard behind the hostel. At first, it was
quiet enough to sleep. I drifted off about 10 PM and was sleeping pretty
well. About midnight, I woke to loud screaming and cursing. It was obvious
the person was FUBAR. His wife, Tripp, who was with him was attempting to
quiet him down and get him to bed. Although very annoyed about the
disturbance, I didn't see it as a big problem. I figured FUBAR would pass
out soon. Within the next several minutes, I heard FUBAR getting sick in the
grass behind the hostel Oh great, that should keep all the critters close by
happy.

About then, I hear a woman scream "Help, I'm being attacked. Someone call
the Police". I immediately sat up and tried to get out of my sleeping bag
and tent. I heard the screams again and it was then I recognized the woman's
voice as Popsicle's.

When I did get out of the tent, I caught a glimpse of Popsicle running down
the hill toward the hostel owner's house. FUBAR's wife had her legs wrapped
around him and another hiker was sitting on FUBAR. I heard FUBAR say, "I
can't believe I got punched in the face by a chick". Tripp kept saying to
FUBAR, "You've really screwed up now, you attacked a woman". I was trying to
get someone to tell me what was going on but everything was so confused that
I couldn't really get an answer. I was concerned that FUBAR had sexually
attacked Popsicle. I had an almost uncontrollable urge to stomp FUBAR's face
into a bloody pulp but I restrained myself.

I couldn't find out what was happening, so I went down to the owner's house
to find Popsicle. I found her inside, obviously shaken, talking to the
Police and reporting that she had been assaulted. When she got off the
phone, I got her to sit down and tell me what had happened.

All the noise had also awakened Popsicle. Since she was awake, she decided
to go down and use the restroom in the hostel. She had to pass by FUBAR who
was on the ground vomiting. As she passed by him, Popsicle said to FUBAR "
Very attractive, thank you for sharing". As she walked, she heard someone
running at her. Popsicle turned to see what was happening and FUBAR jumped
at her, placed both hands around her neck in a strangle hold, and knocked
her to the ground. Popsicle began to scream which is what I, and the other
hikers, had heard. In attempting to defend herself, Popsicle punched FUBAR
in the face, dug her nails into his stomach, and after several attempts,
kicked him in the groin. When she kicked him, FUBAR released his hold on her
throat and Tripp pulled him off Popsicle. Popsicle immediately got up and
ran down to the house.

The Roanake County police showed up about 15 minutes after Popsicle placed
the call to them. She related the story to the Police and answered their
questions. The two officers dispatched went up the hill to find FUBAR. By
this time there were three hikers sitting on him to restrain him.
Apparently, FUBAR would not cooperate with the two police officers and they
called for a supervisor to assist them. Between the three officers, they
managed to get handcuffs and hobbles in place. FUBAR continued to scream and
curse at everyone involved.

The officers placed FUBAR in the back of one of their cars but became
concerned when FUBAR attempted to kick out the side windows. They removed
FUBAR from the car and called for a paddy wagon to be dispatched. After
another 20 minute wait, it arrived. The officers placed FUBAR inside and he
was transported to jail. During the entire incident, I was amazed at the
restraint these three officers displayed. I was sure they would either have
to resort to pepper spray or batons to subdue FUBAR. They managed without
either. Although I had secretly hoped the officers would wail on his head
with their batons.

The officers explained to Popsicle that if she wished to file charges
against FUBAR, she would have to be present in court to testify. She readily
agreed to this. The investigating officer gave her case information and
instructed her to call in the morning to see if she would be required to
appear at a preliminary hearing. The officers departed and we all tried to
go back to bed and get some sleep. Fat chance!

The next morning when Popsicle called, she talked to the Sergeant that was
on scene. Apparently, FUBAR did not take kindly to being placed in jail and
there was an "incident" in the jail that was likely going to result in more
charges. Most disturbing was the fact that FUBAR has a prior record. The
Sergeant would not give specific details but it was apparent this was not
his first assault charge. His arraignment would not be for several days
because of his level of intoxication and the severity of the charges. Most
disturbing, the Sergeant warned about the distinct possibility of another
attack by FUBAR or some other attempt at retaliation. The Sergeant's warning
certainly placed a new light on our hikes to Maine.

At this point, Popsicle decided her hike was over. She no longer feels safe
around other hikers. She's concerned about having to hike while constantly
looking over her shoulder and worrying about being attacked again. She's
also concerned about my safety, although I don't really feel threatened. In
fact, I'd welcome a shot at this *******!!

Popsicle has asked me to continue my hike and not stop. I've decided to
attempt to locate my friends I started my hike with and do this section at a
later date. Popsicle is returning to Hawaii and will return to VA to press
charges against FUBAR.

What are the lessons learned here? I discussed at length with the hostel
owner, Joe Mitchell, his liability and involvement in this incident. Not
only was he illegally selling beer from his residence, he purchased the hard
liquor that really placed the evening out of control. Couple this with the
fact that at least one of those drinking was underage and that Joe ignored
the use of illegal drugs on his property.

I also don't understand FUBAR's "friends". They seemed to encourage his
drinking and out of control behavior. Then the next morning they all came
around and told us what a bad person he was. If so, why didn't any of them
try to get him under control?

Finally, why do we as AT hikers have to engage in this kind of destructive
behavior? More and more hostels are closing just exactly because of
incidents like this. Compared to my hike 2 years ago, I see a noticeable
negative difference in the reception in towns and businesses that hikers
get. I can only attribute this to the stupid behavior by a limited number of
hikers.

So, my hike will continue. But thanks to a small number of idiots, I've lost
a great hiking partner. I'll continue to journal once I get back on the
trail. To all of those hikers who helped us that evening at 4 Pines, thank
you. Popsicle is very thankful and grateful for your help. You should be
proud of your part in the evening. For the rest of you that were there that
evening, can you really look yourself in the face and say you were not part
of the problem?

Life is Good - Despite ********!
Moose
GA - ME 2003
-Moose

[Footslogger]

[quote=max patch]Seems like some of the usual suspects have a selective memory. This was posted on WB 3 years ago: Yeah, sounds like a great place.....
===============================
Very familiar with that even and I know Moose personally. I was there the night before this incident. I don't disagree with Moose's account.

From all reports it was a bad scene. That said ...I don't think you can condemn the entire hostel for what happened on a single night and involved a single hiker.

Kinda a moot point now though.

'Slogger

[neo]

I stayed there three times over the years. I agree with Jack 100%. I can't comment on Neo's post as he's the only one on my ignore list.

:D are you bragging or complaining,i guess your proud of adding me to your ignore list:cool: neo

[neo]

I also stayed there in 2002. It was a haven for hikers, period, and Joe Mitchell, the proprietor, was a fine man. Like most hostels, the vast majority of folks who passed thru there neither created nor experienced problems. Neo's comments are unkind and unwarranted.

any body that speaks against drunken behavior reaps scorn on this site:cool: neo

[max patch]

neo, seems like the negative comments made about you and your post were totally out of line.

[kevinmkr]

Actually, I find it humorous that Neo is wrong *or* Neo is right, as if it's so simply black and white. In truth, both are probably accurate based on the perspective of each hiker who visited Four Pines. Personally, I stayed there on two separate occasions for a total of 4 nights. There was never a single problem....just a few hikers playing checkers and guitar while enjoying a cold beer in a free hostel. I do not doubt that there are rowdy hikers that stayed at Four Pines. As an '03 hiker, however, who stayed at Four Pines right after the FUBAR incident, I am appalled to hear people slander Joe, and/or hold him accountable for the actions of a single hiker. To illustrate my point, consider if this had happened at the Partnership Shelter, where beer is also readily available. Would this thread be laced with attacks upon the Park Service that provided the payphone at the Mt. Rogers Visitors Center from which the beer was ordered? Would the more frivilous of the WB community be waging war on the pizza place that had brought the beer and pizza which, in the majority of hikers hands, has resulted only in wonderful memories?

When all is said and done, a very decent man has closed a very wonderful hostel due to the actions of a single bad seed and a bunch of bandwagoneers who have decided to engage in the age-old technique of finger pointing.

It kinda breaks my heart to think that somebody's generosity and selfless energies could be so easily dismissed. It's shameful, really. The Four Pines hostel will be missed by the reasonable hiking community. Popsicle had a very bad and unfortunate experience, one which ultimately ended her hike. It's horrible to think that somebody's dream came to an end based on another's inconsiderate acts. I can't help but think that the same could be said regarding Joe and the Four Pines Hostel.......

[max patch]

It's horrible to think that somebody's dream came to an end based on another's inconsiderate acts. I can't help but think that the same could be said regarding Joe and the Four Pines Hostel.......

If what is posted in Moose's journal is true -- I don't know as I wasn't there --- then it would appear that the owner of the hostel is also to blame. Heres an excerpt:

"What are the lessons learned here? I discussed at length with the hostel
owner, Joe Mitchell, his liability and involvement in this incident. Not
only was he illegally selling beer from his residence, he purchased the hard
liquor that really placed the evening out of control. Couple this with the
fact that at least one of those drinking was underage and that Joe ignored
the use of illegal drugs on his property".

[kevinmkr]

Again, take my analogy regarding the Partnership shelter. The pizza place is "liable" for what happens at the Partnership shelter because they provide the alcohol to the hikers? If you say 'yes', than I suppose this boils down to a simple difference of opinions. I live my life accepting responsibility for my actions.....I am old enough to know better. If somebody provides something that I've expressly asked for (i.e. alcohol), I will hold them completely free of responsibility for the actions that I take while under the influence. As for underage drinking at Joes, if he was guilty of allowing such a thing, I believe that it is up to the law enforcement agencies to arrest him for contributing to the deliquency of a minor. No such arrest was made, therefore it really isn't relevent, vis a vis a discussion regarding Joes culpability on that evening. If there's anything that I learned while hiking, it was that my destiny is in my own hands and that I'm responsible for each and every thing that I do. You won't find me suing McDonalds if I were to get fat eating Quarter Pounders.....and you won't find me blaming Joe for the events of that June evening on '03.

The bottom line remains the same......a great hostel has closed, due more to the gossip and backstabbing of a good man, than due to the act that initially caused the fuss in the first place. That, to me, will stand as one of the great injustices that I've witnessed in my life.

[bearbait2k4]

If what is posted in Moose's journal is true -- I don't know as I wasn't there --- then it would appear that the owner of the hostel is also to blame. Heres an excerpt:

"What are the lessons learned here? I discussed at length with the hostel
owner, Joe Mitchell, his liability and involvement in this incident. Not
only was he illegally selling beer from his residence, he purchased the hard
liquor that really placed the evening out of control. Couple this with the
fact that at least one of those drinking was underage and that Joe ignored
the use of illegal drugs on his property".

You know, hostel owners take on a lot of risk when they open up their doors to all of us out there. Unfortunately, when things such as this happen, some of them are forced to shut their doors because the risk shows itself and threatens the integrity and the life of the hostel owner. These people are not typically running a legit business when it comes to their hostel - hence why many run on donations. They are simply helping the hiking community.

What happened at that hostel was at the fault of the hiker that attacked others - nobody else. Even to attempt to place liability on someone kind enough to open their home to the hiking community is nothing short of insanity, and the flip side of that is that we will continue to see more hostels closing their doors every year.

[Heater]

You know, hostel owners take on a lot of risk when they open up their doors to all of us out there. Unfortunately, when things such as this happen, some of them are forced to shut their doors because the risk shows itself and threatens the integrity and the life of the hostel owner. These people are not typically running a legit business when it comes to their hostel - hence why many run on donations. They are simply helping the hiking community.

What happened at that hostel was at the fault of the hiker that attacked others - nobody else. Even to attempt to place liability on someone kind enough to open their home to the hiking community is nothing short of insanity, and the flip side of that is that we will continue to see more hostels closing their doors every year.

The hostel owner was selling beer to the rowdy hikers (illegally) and went further by buying hard liquer for them. He has a huge percentage of responsibility in the matter.

You know that in Texas, if you provided the alcohol to a person at a party or bar (as a bartender/ owner), and that person has an accident, you are partially responsible, don't you? Same thing. He should have been fined at least.

[Lone Wolf]

You know, hostel owners take on a lot of risk when they open up their doors to all of us out there. Unfortunately, when things such as this happen, some of them are forced to shut their doors because the risk shows itself and threatens the integrity and the life of the hostel owner. These people are not typically running a legit business when it comes to their hostel - hence why many run on donations. They are simply helping the hiking community.

What happened at that hostel was at the fault of the hiker that attacked others - nobody else. Even to attempt to place liability on someone kind enough to open their home to the hiking community is nothing short of insanity, and the flip side of that is that we will continue to see more hostels closing their doors every year.
It's pretty ***n simple if you own a hostel. NO alcohol allowed. Problem solved.

[Lugnut]

When all is said and done, a very decent man has closed a very wonderful hostel due to the actions of a single bad seed and a bunch of bandwagoneers who have decided to engage in the age-old technique of finger pointing

Joe didn't close the hostel because of this event. He closed it because his new wife wanted him to. He said she didn't feel comfortable with strangers coming and going.

[bearbait2k4]

The hostel owner was selling beer to the rowdy hikers (illegally) and went further by buying hard liquer for them. He has a huge percentage of responsibility in the matter.

You know that in Texas, if you provided the alcohol to a person at a party or bar (as a bartender/ owner), and that person has an accident, you are partially responsible, don't you? Same thing. He should have been fined at least.

The law in Texas, I believe, covers auto accidents and drunk driving only. If a fight at a bar occurs, I don't think the bartender and/or owner is charged, are they? Aside from that, the laws in Texas differ greatly from the laws in Virginia. To add to that, it's an arbitrary law, and is just another example of people blaming other people for their own actions.

Now, if you took a look at the root of the problem, you would know that alcohol played a partial role in the equation, and the party involved took full responsibility for his actions, eventually.

Yes, the most simple equation in it would be to not allow alcohol at hostels, because that takes out the liability that others seem happy to push onto the hostel owners. If you guys want to make all these hostels actual establishments, then go right ahead. Just realize what you are doing, in the process, is destroying the non-business-oriented hostels along the way.

I've stayed at the 4 Pines Hostel twice, and neither time do I recall beer being sold. I also don't ever recall being forced to drink. Maybe the procedure changed after that incident; I don't know. If the police were called out, filed a report, and did not cite Joe, then my conclusion would be that he did nothing wrong. But, maybe everyone else on this board, and not the police that are familiar with the laws and regulations in the area, are correct on this one.

[One Leg]

There was never a single problem....I am appalled to hear people slander Joe, and/or hold him accountable for the actions of a single hiker. To illustrate my point, consider if this had happened at the Partnership Shelter, where beer is also readily available............. It's horrible to think that somebody's dream came to an end based on another's inconsiderate acts. I can't help but think that the same could be said regarding Joe and the Four Pines Hostel.......

I stayed at Joe's back in '04. I arrived early in the afternoon, in time to claim one of the bunks.

By the time I arrived at Joe's, the infamous incident involving "Onit" had already taken place down at Partnership shelter, where he'd gotten drunk and was throwing rocks at passing hikers...

I spent the afternoon unpacking & cleaning my gear. Somewhere around 4-5, Onit arrived with Night Rider. I should have known then that things would only get worse.

Joe took a load of us down to the local convenience store. Among us were Onit and Night Rider. They bought beer and took it back to Joe's place. (Joe may not sell beer, but he did take hikers to the store, they bought beer, Joe shuttled all back to his place.)

-Now, most hikers I've encountered who enjoy alcohol know how to act responsibly. I have never had a problem being around hikers who drink, because MOST of them act responsibly. Not so in the case I'm describing.-

Joe had a "lights out" policy that supposedly was 10:00pm. Normally, most hikers are in bed by that time, as were most of the hikers who were at Joe's that particular evening. However, Onit and Night Rider stayed up, sitting at the table, listening to some radio station that played heavy metal music at a very high volume.

At midnight, Safron (a female hiker) raised up from her cot and said "Look guys, we've given you two hours. Can you be nice and give us the rest of the night? Please turn the radio down.

Night Rider seemed ready to give in to Safron's request, but Onit spoke up with ****** you b***h! and cranked up the radio louder.

Safron took her sleeping bag and went outside and slept on the ground, as did a few other hikers.

At 2:00am the unwanted serenade was still going on. I got up & started packing. Someone asked me where I was going, and I replied "If I'm gonna be awake all night, I may as well be hiking., which I did.. I hiked on out of there.

The next day, I ran into Joe at a road crossing. Not really sure what he was doing at the road crossing, but he asked me what'd happened, and I told him. He said that I should've come down to the house and woke him up to let him know of the problem... I guess I could've done that, but didn't figure that a) it was my place to do so, and b) I really didn't want to ruin his sleep. I do try (somewhat) to be considerate of others. He said that had he known of the problem that he'd have sent them both packing.. Funny thing, though: After he learned of the problem, he allowed them to remain at his hostel for another 2 nights afterward. (This was what I heard from other hikers who were alledgedly there the following 2 nights after I departed. I do not know this from firsthand experience.)

I also ran into Onit & Night Rider a couple of days later. Both profusely apologized for their respective actions on that night.

On a personal level, I like Joe a whole lot. He's a very likable fellow and seems to get along with everyone else. Unfortunately, when you run a hostel, you can't always be everyone's friend.. When someone acts up, you have to exercise some control.

-Scott

[kevinmkr]

At midnight, Safron (a female hiker) raised up from her cot and said "Look guys, we've given you two hours. Can you be nice and give us the rest of the night? Please turn the radio down.

Night Rider seemed ready to give in to Safron's request, but Onit spoke up with ****** you b***h! and cranked up the radio louder.

Safron took her sleeping bag and went outside and slept on the ground, as did a few other hikers.

Wow. Interesting story. Especially because I knew Saffron (quite a lovely lass) through a mutual friend and would like to think that our many email conversations after my '03 hike helped inspire her to hit the trail in '04. If I remember correctly, she got off the trail early on in Pennsylvania, having found what it was that she was looking for on the AT.....

Lugnut, I appreciate the correction.....I'm also quite happy to hear that Joe has found himself a new love. He certainly deserves it.

[One Leg]

Wow. Interesting story. Especially because I knew Saffron (quite a lovely lass) through a mutual friend and would like to think that our many email conversations after my '03 hike helped inspire her to hit the trail in '04. If I remember correctly, she got off the trail early on in Pennsylvania, having found what it was that she was looking for on the AT.....

Lugnut, I appreciate the correction.....I'm also quite happy to hear that Joe has found himself a new love. He certainly deserves it.

Saffron was one of the nicest folks I met... I wondered what happened to her after I left Joe's... That was the last time I saw her.

[asphalt commando]

Had Joe transport me and fellow section hikers several times. I believe the reason he sold the place were personal reasons, not related to the hostel itself. His new wife wanted a place that was just theirs, with no memories of the "ex". Simple as that. Although I never stayed at the 4 pines overnight, Joe picked us up, shuttled us to wherever, and we used the shower and the hostel to rest and clean up. Very "laid back" guy and would do anything for you. I wish him and his wife only the best.