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Max
03-22-2003, 19:38
Well, I'm attempting to make my first cat stove.

I was looking on the internet and came across this stove that uses a cat food can as the jacket and the bottom of a soda can as the burner. The catfood can is also the stand, so it eliminates the wire. Has anyone made this type of stove? How does it compare to the cat stove?
http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/cat-stove/

Thanks

Dirtyoldman
03-23-2003, 05:27
a blowtorch similar to the altoids and other open burners. I tried that type of pot stand and decided that it lost too much heat.

Max
03-24-2003, 13:41
Has anyone ever tried to make the stand part of the stove instead of a separate piece?
What if I took coat hanger wire and made little stilts that attach to the side of the stove. The pot would sit on top of the stilts.
Any thoughts?

jlb2012
03-24-2003, 14:04
SGT Rock's Turbo V8 and Ion stoves have the pot stand inserted into the stove so it is sort of what you are talking about - the pot stand helps preheat the fuel for possibly more efficiency.

SGT Rock
03-24-2003, 14:12
The Turbo V8 is thru-hike tested: http://hikinghq.net/sgt_stove/sgt_v8stove1.html

The Ion Stove is still basically being proofed as a stove, but is basically a smaller Turbo V8: http://hikinghq.net/sgt_stove/ion_stove.html

Both have integrated stands, the only seperate piece to contend with is the windscreen (like most stoves). I really like the Ion stove because it is 0.6 ounces even with the windscreen.

chris
03-24-2003, 14:27
Take an empty 14 oz can of beans and cut the top half off using metal snips or a utility knife. Cut an inch down on a diagonal, then horizontally for about half and inch, then up diagonally back to the top. Do this two more times in different, equally spaced places. The opennings you are making in the can allow an oxygen supply for the alcohol. Put a little fiberglass in as a wick if you have it sitting around.

I like the bean can since it is a little more sturdy than a beer can. The extra width gives the stove a bit more stability as well.

Max
03-24-2003, 14:31
Excellent!
I knew I was probably trying to reinvent the wheel.
Does the Turbo V8 and the Ion perform the same?
SGT Rock, you probably wrote about this in your thesis on stoves :) Could you give me the condensed version :)
Out of the Cat stove, Turbo V8 or the Ion which do you think does best for just boiling water. I'm not really concerned with simmering. Thanks!

SGT Rock
03-24-2003, 14:43
Here is the condensed version:

Turbo V8. Consistant performance using 18ml (three soda caps full) of alcohol to boil a pint of water. In very cold weather or in very windy conditions, add another capfull. With a 12 ounce bottle of alcohol you can last about 2 weeks easy.

The Ion stove is an experimental stove trying to push the efficency. It takes longer to boil, but can do it on just 12ml (2 soda caps full). The unproven is can this stove do it consistantly at a wide range of conditions. If it cannot, you could alwas add a couple of holes to it and add more alcohol to the Turbo V8 volume and use it like a smaller Turbo V8 since it still has a 30ml fuel capacity.

Personally I would go with an Ion stove and stick to my .72L pot and my simple meal scheduel.

As for simmering (in case you are interested) - don't. It wastes fuel. Make a pot cozy.

Max
03-24-2003, 15:36
I've never been so excited about going to buy grape juice before :)

Do you know if altitude has any effects on stove performance?
I'm going to be hiking the CT and hope to use this type of stove for that hike.

SGT Rock
03-24-2003, 16:15
No performance effects, at least under 10,000 F. Last I remember, the highest you will go is about 6,200.

chris
03-24-2003, 16:34
Which CT are you refering to? The colorado trail gets significantly higher than 6200 ft. There should be no performance degradation due to altitude (at least at reasonable ones; i.e, under 4000 meters), but be aware that water boils at a lower temperature the higher you go. Alcohol stoves do seem to be heavily affected by low temperatures, though.

Max
03-24-2003, 16:46
In the Data book that I have for the CT the elevation ranges from a low of 5,520 to a high of 13,240. Looks like most of the time will be spend between 9,000 - 11,000 feet. Maybe I should stick with my whisperlite for that trip :/

chris
03-24-2003, 17:29
I would go with the alcohol stove, unless you are going in early or late and will have to deal with snow. You probably won't spend too much time camped above 12,000 ft. At least, not if you are smart. Melting large amounts of snow with an alcohol stove is a real pain. I crossed the Rockies through Colorado coming back from Death Valley just a couple of days ago and there is alot of snow right now. Many feet above 10k. If you are going through in late July, this shouldn't be a problem. But, if you are going to try to force things in early June, you may end up doing a lot of melting. You might want to consider posting a question to the CDT-L to find out how fast the snow is melting out in Colorado.

SGT Rock
03-24-2003, 17:50
Brian Robbinson did all three trails in one year using a Cat stove.

Max
03-24-2003, 17:55
Hopefully the snow will be gone by the time I get there. Planning late June and July. Most camping will be at around 9,000.
I've been lurking in the CT forum, maybe its time to post a couple questions. Thanks for everyone's help.

chris
03-25-2003, 08:36
Flyin' Brian did do the calendar triple crown with a cat stove, but I don't think he had to use it to melt the quantities of snow required for drinking water. I could be misremembering his journals. He did have to melt snow for cooking, but that is a different story altogether.

Enjoy the CT. It should be a fantastic trip.

Max
03-25-2003, 11:14
Thanks Chris

I couldn't find Welch's 5.5oz juice cans to make the Ion stove. I did find 5.5 oz V-8 cans. Do these work the same?

SGT Rock
03-25-2003, 11:16
yes

Max
03-25-2003, 11:36
Thanks SGT Rock
Your a stove making guineas!

tlbj6142
04-05-2003, 00:08
I'm thinking about making an Ion soon. What should I use to cut the cans?

brian
04-05-2003, 08:53
Just use an ordinary pair of scissors. The give the most control and the most precise cut. FIrst find something of the hight u want ur cans to be cut at. For example, 2 CD cases for great if u need to cut the can at .5". NExt, take a blade of some sort and lay it on top of that object. Use it to scribe a line on the can exactly the height u want, then take the scissors and cut about an inch above that. Get the top half off, then work your way down to the line. Happy stove making!

Max
04-05-2003, 11:03
I used a box cutter to make a rough cut then I just used scissors to make the final cut. The cans are very thin and cut pretty easy. I put a piece of black tape around the bottom to mark the right height and use that as a guide for cutting.

tlbj6142
04-05-2003, 11:12
Thanks. The tape thing is a great idea.

tlbj6142
04-06-2003, 18:30
I just completed my first Ion Stove (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=896). It took about an hour to make.

I ran a bit of fuel (Wal-Mart denatured alcohol) through it in the dark. Seems like most of the flame is coming from the center and not from the jets. Though at times I did see a noticable flame out of the jet holes.

I suspect one (or a combination) of three things might be the cause.

[list=1]
Jet Hole location
Fuel wall insert location
Amount of Insulation
[/list=1]

This picture of a jet hole (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=897) will help to explain the issues.

Due to the way the bottom the can is shaped, if I put the hole on the top ridge, I run the risk having the fuel wall insert bisecting the hole (you can see the top edge of the wall through the hole). So, should I move the holes outward a bit. Maybe where the black dot is located in the picture?

I could also make the insert a bit shorter in length which would make its diameter narrower thereby preventing the bisecting issue.

I also think I may not have used enough insulation. If I used more, it might help to push the wall toward the center of the container.

Any suggestions?

brian
04-06-2003, 19:27
Do u only have 1 jet hole?? YOu need many, and they need to be MUCh thinner. About 1mm in diameter is good. And you need about 20 of them. It looks like u only have 1 hole from the picture. That is incorrect. Try making it without the insulation. It should work just the same, and for starting out, you eliminate 1 more variable that could mess up operation.

Brian

tlbj6142
04-06-2003, 20:19
Nope. I got 6 holes just like the instructions (http://hikinghq.net/sgt_stove/ion_stove1.html) say. The picture (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=897) just shows one of them. Also, the holes are quite small. A 1.2mm flathead screw driver just fits into them. And the paperclip (per instructions) is a tight fit. I guess I could make them a bit smaller and just use the 1mm flathead.

I think, too, that I might need to make more, or larger, notches at the base of the insert. The way the insert sits down into the bottom of the can it sort of restricts the flow. Just a thought.

Regarding one step at a time approach. I don't see how I can do that. If I tried to take my current stove apart I'd probably distroy it in the process. But since it doens't appear to work, I guess I have nothing to lose.:rolleyes:

Max
04-06-2003, 21:15
I would move the holes out a bit like your thinking. I think thats where the instructions say to put them.

tlbj6142
04-07-2003, 10:04
Last night I ripped apart my first stove and made another "top". This time I put the jet holes out a bit farther along the edge (where the black dot is located in this (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=897) picture). This worked quite well. Unfortunatley, I tore part of the can while smashing the two pieced together, so I'll need to build another.

A few questions about the stove mechanics...

I pour the fuel into the center and light it. Seems like the "path to least resistence" for the fuel is to just sit and burn in the center. What makes it "want" to go up the walls and out the jets?

I have yet to put a pot on the stand while it is lit. But it still seems like quite a bit of flame comes out of the center of the stove throughout the entire burn. Is this normal? Or after the priming period should just the jets be in use?

Max
04-07-2003, 10:29
Does your can have the curved bottom? The Welches Grape juice cans and the V-8 cans do.

tlbj6142
04-07-2003, 11:03
Are you asking does the center of the bottom of the can "dome up"? If so, yes.

But what I think may be happening is that the inner wall sits down in this grove right up against the lower edges of the dome. This might restrict the flow if fuel into the outer chamber. Maybe I need to add, or enlarge, the notches in the bottom of the inner wall to resolve that issue.

chris
04-07-2003, 11:14
This is the process I went through with a lot of stove designs. Note that stoves which use insulation need a "seasonning" period before they reach good performance. That is, burn a couple of ounces of fuel before you try another design.

I never could make stoves similar to the Ion work. I just couldn't get the parts to fit together well enough. But, it is a good exercise to go through. When you have some time, cut the bottom third of a beer can off, put a little insulation in it (about 1/3 of what you might use as toliet paper), and your stove is done. I've noticed little difference in the performance of this type of stove and double wall types like the Ion. Double wall types are generally more efficient, open burner ones usually a bit faster.

tlbj6142
04-10-2003, 16:16
I think I might have a good Ion (4th top, same bottom and inner wall). Last night it burned through ~18ml twice without a pot. BTW, the bottle cap method for measuring is very messy process.

On the 2nd burn at about the 4th minute the stove "popped" and 20 seconds later it did it again and actualy blew out 2 of the 6 jets.

Any ideas what that means? Maybe too much pressure and not enough ports?

I didn't ream out the ports with the paperclip this time. I stopped with the 1mm flathead screw driver. The large paperclip has a slightly larger diameter (maybe 1.1 mm). I also added two larger triangles in the bottom of the inner wall to help get the fuel between the walls quicker.

Also, the jets make for a wide flame. Which leads to lost heat, unless you have a 10" pot. Next time I might make the ports a bit more virticle than my current version.

Rambler
05-27-2003, 19:12
Thru-hiker.com stove has holes on the side (24 or two staggered rows of 12 holes. With a prime cap attached below, only a small amount of uel will get this stove going with the pot resting right on top of the stove itself, no other support other than the stove is needed. It took about 6 min. to get 2 cups of water boinling but stove burned hot more that 15 min. on less than an oz. of fuel. Unofficial results on my homemade attempt. Scroll down:.5 oz. V-8 (http://thru-hiker.com/workshop.asp)