View Full Version : Three officials from the A.T.C. evacuated from Lebanon.
Three officials from the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, including one from Maine, were among the first wave of Americans to be evacuated from Lebanon on Monday.
Article (http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2006/07/17/mainer_amongst_those_evacuated_from_lebanon/) in the Boston Globe.
Lone Wolf
07-20-2006, 12:34
Hmmm. Did the ATC fund thier trip? If so, poor use of funds. Kind of a dumb place to be in this day and age.
Hmmm. Did the ATC fund thier trip? If so, poor use of funds. Kind of a dumb place to be in this day and age.
I don't believe so. I believe USAID (http://lebanon.usaid.gov/(xwkrq2jawhl3a045wdpvb045)/files/actlist.aspx?sector=7)did. And Lebanon was actually coming around until this recent set of events. With Syrian troops out of the country - there was a lot of hope & promise. I received a long note from Marianne this morning detailing her thoughts. Any way you slice it - it really is a shame how that country is getting shattered.
Terry Karkos, a reporter for the Lewiston (Maine) Sun Journal and editor of the MATC website, wrote this story, which appeared in the morning editions..
Lebanon: A Mainer survives
By Terry Karkos, Staff Writer
Thursday, July 20,2006
David B. Field of Hampden
Getting into Lebanon on July 6 was easy for the three Americans, including one from Maine, who flew to Beirut to help the country create and manage a national trail system.
Getting out Monday was the hard part. That escape was by a Marine helicopter without doors flying under threat of missile attacks over the Mediterranean Sea as it made its way to Cyprus.
"We were the lucky ones, the first ones out," said David N. Startzell, executive director of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy. He spoke Wednesday morning from his home in Shepherdstown, W.Va. He arrived there Tuesday night.
After Israel bombed, shelled and invaded southern Lebanon, Startzell and former ATC directors David B. Field of Hampden and Marianne Skeen of Decatur, Ga., were among the thousands forced to flee Beirut.
"I can't say enough about the young Marines on the helicopters," Field said Wednesday afternoon after a flight from Paris and four hours into an eight-hour layover at Newark International Airport in New Jersey.
"There were 30 of us in one helicopter, with a Marine sitting at a really big machine gun, and the back door open - all the way across the Mediterranean - and there was a woman Marine manning the starboard machine guns," Field said.
"We weren't terribly scared; it was more like anxiousness. But, it's nice not to be woken up by bombing," he added.
Until last Wednesday, Startzell, Field and Skeen worked with Lebanese officials and the U.S. Agency for International Development on the proposed 180-mile-long Lebanon Mountain Trail. That connection is what got them out of Beirut in the first wave of evacuations, Startzell said.
David N. Startzell, executive director of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy
On July 12, the trio was walking parts of the trail, individually with Lebanese guides, in different regions, when Hezbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers.
Field, who retired on June 30 as head of the forestry department at the University of Maine at Orono after a 30-year career, said he was the farthest south of the three, nearest the area of the raid.
"We were up in the bush. I was hiking up an actual Roman road when the Lebanese with me got a cell phone call from the U.S. Embassy, saying, 'Hey! Get him back here!'" Field said.
Startzell said officials were anticipating retaliatory strikes from Israel.
Field said he and his guide dawdled, even though the man later told him they knew about the Hezbollah raid by early Wednesday morning, but didn't want to make him nervous.
Instead of taking the coastal route back to Beirut, the trio had to go through the mountains.
"We got increasingly anxious," Field said.
Startzell, Field and Skeen had been scheduled to go to southern Lebanon on July 13, but on Wednesday, "the Hezbollah refused to give us clearance to go into that area," Field said.
The southern terminus of the Lebanon Mountain Trail is the biblically famous Mount Hermon (elev. 9,230 feet) on the Syrian border.
Soon, they were in the thick of things. They had visited the Lebanese Army's headquarters in Sidon, "which got blasted the next day after we went down there. We went over the brand new road from Beirut to Damascus, and saw the Lebanese Army had tanks under one bridge, and, on Thursday, the Israelis took the bridge out," Field said.
By Wednesday night, the three were back in their rooms at the Hotel Cavalier in West Beirut when Israeli missiles began raining on southern Beirut.
"They bombed the hell out of south Beirut. Where we were, we heard these tremendous bomb blasts that woke me up," Field said.
Their hotel was in the central part of Lebanon's capital.
"It was in a high-rise canyon, so, once in a while, we'd hear explosions, but we really couldn't see much. Sound reverberated so much that you couldn't tell what was hitting where. We relied on CNN to figure out what was getting hammered," Startzell said.
"Every time there was an explosion, it would echo and sound like two explosions, but the first real scare was the sonic booms. People were just cringing in the street, and would look up at the sky," Field said.
"About the closest any rocket hit to us was the lighthouse near the coast, eight blocks from the hotel," Startzell said. West Beirut's black-and-white-striped lighthouse was obliterated by an Israeli missile.
Evacuation talks and rumors began Friday and Saturday.
"The Lebanese people are great, but there are some mean people around. People would stop us on the street and apologize to us. We said, 'Look, it's only an inconvenience for us, but you have to live with it,'" Field said.
Anti-American sentiment was also rising.
"A lot of them are pissed off at us for our unqualified support of Israel," Field said.
On Saturday, a Lebanese man took them to his place overlooking Beirut for a change of pace.
Twice, Field said, he heard unmanned Israeli drones scouting out the area.
More bombs fell on Sunday during church services, creating, for Field, the height of surrealism.
By Monday morning, they were told to get to the U.S. Embassy as fast as they could, with only one suitcase each. There, they waited several hours for a helicopter to arrive.
Officials "had to negotiate with the Israelis not to fire in that airspace, and, with Hezbollah, so, we had to wait for that window of opportunity to fly out," Startzell said.
Both Startzell and Field said they were saddened for the Lebanese people and the growing conflict.
"The Israeli assaults targeted the infrastructure, which took them 15 years to create after they emerged from a 30-year civil war," Startzell said.
"This is going to devastate everything there, including the tourism," Field said.
Prior to July 12, both said Lebanese Tourism Minister Joe Sarkis told them this year was Lebanon's best tourism year since 1960.
"These people have been through a lot, so, it was sad to see their growing optimism and economic recovery wiped out in less than a week.
"I just hope the United Nations and the European Union will take a little more proactive stance, and insist on a cease-fire, because, at this point, all these assaults is not doing anybody any good," Startzell added.
Just Jeff
07-20-2006, 12:55
FWIW, this is another step in the same long struggle that's been going on for years, flaring up occasionally. It didn't "start" with the unprovoked capture of Israeli soldiers as the Western press is reporting.
"A lot of them are pissed off at us for our unqualified support of Israel," Field said.
Can't argue with that. That's the underlying issue in nearly all of our Middle East problems. Mearscheimer and Walt recently published an article that sparked a pretty good controversy over the Israeli lobby and our unqualified support for Israel. Lots of critique for the article - much of it emotional, barely addressing the specific issues raised - but at least people are talking about it now.
By the way, Brian King, ATC Associate Director of Communications, provided the following clarification
"ATC did not pay for this and it was an honor for ATC to be asked to bring the skills and experience that Dave Startzell, Dave Field, and Marianne Skeen brought to bear. This was a project sponsored/funded by USAID (Agency for International Development), more or less a part of the State Department, that covered all the expenses."
Laurie Potteiger
ATC Information Services Manager
BlackCloud
07-20-2006, 14:37
By the way, Brian King, ATC Associate Director of Communications, provided the following clarification
"ATC did not pay for this and it was an honor for ATC to be asked to bring the skills and experience that Dave Startzell, Dave Field, and Marianne Skeen brought to bear. This was a project sponsored/funded by USAID (Agency for International Development), more or less a part of the State Department, that covered all the expenses."
Laurie Potteiger
ATC Information Services Manager
While Just Jeff is correct in his assessment of the Middle East, ATC's mere presence there is further proof of what I've been talking about.
ATC has changed focus, & the AT is not necessarily going to be the main beneficiary.
WHAT THE F ARE THEY DOING IN LEBANON!!!!!!!!!
BOYCOTT ATC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Alligator
07-20-2006, 14:46
While Just Jeff is correct in his assessment of the Middle East, ATC's mere presence there is further proof of what I've been talking about.
ATC has changed focus, & the AT is not necessarily going to be the main beneficiary.
WHAT THE F ARE THEY DOING IN LEBANON!!!!!!!!!
BOYCOTT ATC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:That's unfair BlackCloud. Exchanges like this occur in many working situations: universities, large companies, the military. It brings new perspectives. It definitely brings American goodwill abroad. It also helps prevent burnout.
Interesting comment by Black Cloud. I have a different opinion. We're never going to solve our problems by simply dropping bombs, or turning our heads when our friends drop bombs. We need to actually ENGAGE folks - and share with them some of the best aspects of American life. To me, the AT epitomizes that.
So I say, bravo to Dave Startzell, Marianne Skeen & David Field! We ought to be doing more of this kind of thing - instead of less.
Jeffrey Hunter
max patch
07-20-2006, 14:55
While Just Jeff is correct in his assessment of the Middle East, ATC's mere presence there is further proof of what I've been talking about.
ATC has changed focus, & the AT is not necessarily going to be the main beneficiary.
WHAT THE F ARE THEY DOING IN LEBANON!!!!!!!!!
BOYCOTT ATC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Dumbest comment of the day is hereby awarded and its not even 3:00 yet.
Hammerhead
07-20-2006, 15:06
i don't post much, and i haven't been here long at all but damn, that was a pretty lame comment Black Cloud. take the blinders off and try a little open-mindedness.
I'm glad to hear Marianne is OK. I met her and a couple other GATC folks on a hike in the Cumberland Gap in May 2005. She, and all the others were great folks. Marianne and my wife have corresponded some about developing an AT based school curriculum,
Tabasco
I'm glad to hear Marianne is OK. I met her and a couple other GATC folks on a hike in the Cumberland Gap in May 2005. She, and all the others were great folks. Marianne and my wife have corresponded some about developing an AT based school curriculum,
Tabasco
Not only great folk. She's a VOLUNTEER. That is what IT is all about!
TJ aka Teej
07-20-2006, 18:25
By the way, Brian King, ATC Associate Director of Communications, provided the following clarification
"ATC did not pay for this and it was an honor for ATC to be asked to bring the skills and experience that Dave Startzell, Dave Field, and Marianne Skeen brought to bear. This was a project sponsored/funded by USAID (Agency for International Development), more or less a part of the State Department, that covered all the expenses."
Laurie Potteiger
ATC Information Services Manager
Thanks Laurie. USAID does great work, glad to hear ATC folks are playing a part.
http://www.usaid.gov/
Not only great folk. She's a VOLUNTEER. That is what IT is all about!
As is Dave Field, who has been an AT volunteer for more than 50 years -- as a maintainer, an officer of MATC, and eventually becoming a director and later president of ATC.
He may have done a special project for ATC at one time or another, but Dave has basically been a volunteer since discovering the trail as a teenager and volunteering to clear blowdowns and cut brush in the Saddleback region.
It's easy to criticize -- especially by those looking for an excuse to do nothing. We all have seen them, worked with them and argued with them. Excuses are easy. Work is hard. So too many choose the former.
www.matc.org
At the moment, MATC is desperately raising money to keep an industrial development off Redington, less than a mile from the trail on the Crockers north of Saddleback. We don't need critics. We need dollars.
Weary
fiddlehead
07-20-2006, 20:17
Perhaps Blackcloud will someday hike some overseas trails.
That could open his mind a bit.
I do agree that our unqualified support of Israel is the cause of way too many problems in the middle east.
(Why don't we ever talk about taking "the bomb" away from them?)
(who trusts them not to use it?)
Thanks Laurie. USAID does great work, glad to hear ATC folks are playing a part.
http://www.usaid.gov/
Likewise!!
BlackCloud
07-21-2006, 09:10
Allow me to share w/ you a series of questions that shot into my head when I read this thread:
1. Isn't the ATC for the AT? Since when is it the Sierra Club, Wilderness Society, etc, whose goals are national/worldwide environmental preservation???
2. Who paid for this trip? Do ATC contributers know & approve of such ancillary duties as "engaging folks" 1/2 way around the world? Even if USAID paid, did these people use their vacation time (paid empoloyees), b/c if it's work time, that's AT money.
3. Why Lebanon? You're an idiot to think anywhere between Turkey & Egypt is a safe place to be. Even before all this trouble.
4. Is the AT fully protected & safe from all its threats that the ATC can spend its time/money on international feel-good efforts?
ATC was created to build, maintain, promote, and protect the AT. PERIOD! No other reason. NONE! There are other environmental/conservation groups whose missions it is to conduct outreach, etc. You can say going to Lebanon is a good idea, but it's inconsistent w/ ATC's orignal mission.
This is the change in focus & direction I have warned of, and for every hour not spent on the AT, the AT will suffer...
Myron Avery in Lebanon. Please.
This is the change in focus & direction I have warned of, and for every hour not spent on the AT, the AT will suffer...
Then hurry! Step away from the keyboard, grab your loppers and fire rake and hit the trail!
Seriously Black Cloud. That is an extraordinarily myopic view of the situation. Two of the three folks who went are volunteers, and the third is the Executive Director - who went with the support of the Board of Directors. I say - Bravo for the ATC!
As soon as I get home from vacation - and I head out the door in 40 minutes - I'm going to renew my membership with ATC.
Tha Wookie
07-21-2006, 09:54
Myron Avery in Lebanon. Please.
Is this guy for real?
From what I understand, they aren't government employees. The ATC is separate from the NPS.
The AT is the model for trails all over the world. It's not uncommon or inappropriate for them the consult others. It's perfectly legit.
Would you be more satisfied if they were dropping bombs instead of building trails?
This has encouraged me to contribute more money to the ATC! With comments like yours, I know they need all the help they can get.:welcome
This has encouraged me to contribute more money to the ATC! With comments like yours, I know they need all the help they can get.:welcome
There is very damned little that we agree on Wookie, but this is certainly one of them. Thanks for inspiring me to write an extra check today.
BlackCloud
07-21-2006, 10:31
Is this guy for real?
From what I understand, they aren't government employees.
Would you be more satisfied if they were dropping bombs instead of building trails?
Volunteers can do anything they want. So the topic is narrowed to one paid employee.
And why do you people keep bringing up bomb dropping into the conversation? I guess your view of America is that you either try to save the environment or drop bombs....
I also love how you people label anything you disagree with as close minded, myopic, etc...
Is this guy for real?
From what I understand, they aren't government employees. The ATC is separate from the NPS.
The AT is the model for trails all over the world. It's not uncommon or inappropriate for them the consult others. It's perfectly legit.
Would you be more satisfied if they were dropping bombs instead of building trails?
This has encouraged me to contribute more money to the ATC! With comments like yours, I know they need all the help they can get.:welcome
No organization knows more about building trails than the ATC. ATC is the natural group people would look to for help in designing a new trail system.
Dave Field told the Maine Appalachian Trail Club at our board's May meeting about his plans. Our concern -- and his -- was about safety in a warring region.
Dave is not an employee of ATC. He's been an ATC volunteer for more than five decades. He's free to do whatever he wants, wherever he wants.
Dave Startzell doesn't strike me as one who watches the clock. I see him at meetings and conferences night and day. If he choses to do work in Lebanon for a couple of weeks, so be it. I'm sure ATC's work will continue, and that we get far more than our money's worth out of his decades of labor on our behalf.
Weary
BlackCloud, are you a card carrying member of the ATC? Just curious. :-?
Lone Wolf
07-21-2006, 13:25
Too bad the ATC didn't spend as much time helping in the capture of the double-murderer back in 90 right in thier back yard. It took 3 volunteer hikers to help track the POS down . The PA State Police were very greatful. No help from the ATC.
Lebanon was actually coming around until this recent set of events. With Syrian troops out of the country - there was a lot of hope & promise. Any way you slice it - it really is a shame how that country is getting shattered.
that's deep, mowgli
BlackCloud
07-21-2006, 14:21
BlackCloud, are you a card carrying member of the ATC? Just curious. :-?
No thank you.
And I know what you're going to say next......:cool:
Question to Black Cloud: "BlackCloud, are you a card carrying member of the ATC? "
No thank you.......:
BlackCloud, Tell us, why not? What other paranoid imaginings keep you from joining?
Until I volunteered with a group that depended on donations from people with some funding form the Govt., I would have agreed with Black Cloud. The employees of the ATC need to be working for the AT. Other people should do American goodwill. The thing is, some one in the Govt. had to contact them to set up the trip. That means some Govt. official got help from the ATC. It made them look good and now he owes the ATC. When the ATC needs help from inside the Govt. they have another contact, a friend who may be able to help the ATC. That's politics. It is the way it works. Over all it was at most 2 weeks salary invested. Sounds like a deal to me.
Clyde
BlackCloud
07-21-2006, 17:16
Until I volunteered with a group that depended on donations from people with some funding form the Govt., I would have agreed with Black Cloud. The employees of the ATC need to be working for the AT. Other people should do American goodwill. The thing is, some one in the Govt. had to contact them to set up the trip. That means some Govt. official got help from the ATC. It made them look good and now he owes the ATC. When the ATC needs help from inside the Govt. they have another contact, a friend who may be able to help the ATC. That's politics. It is the way it works. Over all it was at most 2 weeks salary invested. Sounds like a deal to me.
Clyde
I'll accept the politics angle, though it's a bit of a stretch.......:cool:
No thank you.
And I know what you're going to say next......:cool:
Then I won't have to say it. :rolleyes: