Shenandoah NP AT section

[rswanson]

I am planning on hiking the Shenandoah section of the AT over seven days, NOBO, during the second or third week of October. I did some searches on the subject but I still have more logistics questions:

1. Nighttime temps? What rating of bag to bring?
2. Will mid-October be too early for fall foliage here?
3. Can anyone recommend a good parking spots at each end of the park?
4. I'm planning on meeting a group of friends for the last 30 miles of the trail. Can someone recommend a good meeting spot, preferably a tenting area?
5. Besides Old Rag, are there any other must-see side trips here?

Thanks in advance, guys & gals!

[rswanson]

Oh, and any recommendations on a really good trail book for the area? Thanks!

[the goat]

I am planning on hiking the Shenandoah section of the AT over seven days, NOBO, during the second or third week of October. I did some searches on the subject but I still have more logistics questions:

1. Nighttime temps? What rating of bag to bring?
2. Will mid-October be too early for fall foliage here?
3. Can anyone recommend a good parking spots at each end of the park?
4. I'm planning on meeting a group of friends for the last 30 miles of the trail. Can someone recommend a good meeting spot, preferably a tenting area?
5. Besides Old Rag, are there any other must-see side trips here?

Thanks in advance, guys & gals!

1.) 10 - 20 degree bag should suffice, although i've seen single digits in october before.
2.) foliage usually has begun in the higher elev. areas in the middle of the month.
3.) at the northern end, there is a parking lot right on route 522 where the AT crosses; that, or the 4H center (call them first). (i can't remember the parking situation at rockfish gap in the south....)
4.) there are many camping/tenting areas along skyline drive, and the AT crosses it many times. (you can download a pdf map of the park from their website.)
5.) besides old rag, white oak canyon is pretty cool...lots of waterfalls....

[the goat]

Oh, and any recommendations on a really good trail book for the area? Thanks!

"Guide to Shenandoah National Park & Skyline Drive" by Henry Heatwole is one that i use.....

have good hike!

[wilconow]

Oh, and any recommendations on a really good trail book for the area? Thanks!

get the patc guide for the at in shenandoah
http://www.patc.net/store/PB120.htm

if you call tonight ill be working the phones!

[BlackCloud]

1. 20 degree bag is fine
2. Teen weekends of October are prime color
3. Parking is not a big problem - plenty of rangers around
4. There are easy meeting virtually places every mile - get the PATC guidebook and/or Trails Illustrated map
5. Whiteoak Canyon is hardest hiking in the park - but cool waterfalls; Hawksbill Mtn has great views & is just off the AT

[wilconow]

Whiteoak Canyon is hardest hiking in the park


disagree. brown mountain loop was much more difficult.

[rswanson]

I'm assuming Skyline Drive is a slow road route. On the park map it looks like Rt.340 is the quickest way to get from one end of the park to the next. Is this the case? How long is the drive north-south?

[jlb2012]

taking 340 its about 2 hours, taking SD its at least 3 hours unless you speed and get lucky (not recommended)

[rswanson]

Thanks for the replies so far. Another question- how crowded is the SNP AT mid-October? Are the shelters going to be packed?

[kncats]

The "official" average low in October is 39*. I'd take that with a grain of salt and be prepared for for mid-teens. If the leaves are turning the park will be very crowded on the weekends, but mostly along Skyline Drive, not so much so on th etrails. During the week it'll be pretty empty. I agree with BlackCloud - going down the White Oak Canyon trail and then back up Cedar Run is the hardest hiking we've done in the park. Great waterfalls on both trails. Best view we've seen is blue blaze trail up Bear Fence Mountain when the leaves have fallen. The hotel at Rockfish Gap will let you park in their lot for free. Just let them know at the front desk. http://www.ajheatwole.com/guide/ is the online version. Excellent guide, but mostly for the side trails.

[the goat]

5. Whiteoak Canyon is hardest hiking in the park - but cool waterfalls;

cool waterfalls indeed, but not even close to the "hardest hiking in the park".

[wilconow]

goat, what would you say is the most difficult trail in the park? I say the brown mountain loop, but there's a lot more i need to cover (especially in the south)

[jlb2012]

Leading Ridge Tr. can definately kick your butt but it is not a very popular trail since it is an out and back with no boundary access

wrt White Oak Canyon/Cedar Run - this can be a tough hike especially if you use the AT to connect the two instead of the Skyline-Big Meadows horse trail - even more of a kicker is to go up Hawksbill when connecting the AT to Cedar Run

Backpacking up Old Rag and then continuing on up Robertson Mtn. can be a bit of a kicker too.

Its been too long since I did the Brown Mtn loop but I vaguely recall the part where you go up Rocky Mtn. Run kicking my butt on a hot August day and my butt was dragging the last bit back up to the parking at the overlook.

[BlackCloud]

cool waterfalls indeed, but not even close to the "hardest hiking in the park".

Well it's been some time since my 3rd hike up Whiteoak Canyon trail, but each time seemed to be a doozy (3rd time in knee deep snow!)

Brown Mtn? Done that one twice & didn't consider that hard aside from the initial ascent from that iron bridge; but that was of short duration.

The guide to Skyline Drive and related hikes rates Whiteoak as a 7 (1-7); I don't know about Brown Mtn.

But to say not even close?

[wilconow]

This is something I should know but for some reason was completely drawing a blank when someone asked last night

You can camp anywhere in SNP along the AT with a permit, right? It's not like the GSMNP where you HAVE to stay at the shelters, right? I believe there are a few sections that are marked as no camping, and you can't get too close to the trail or stream..

The people on the phone were not hammockers.. I told them they would probably have problems finding good tentsites between the huts along the AT

They also asked about bears and I recommended they bearbag or stay at the huts and use the bearpoles


Thanks

[bigcranky]

You are not required to stay in the Huts (shelters), however, there are specific rules about exactly where you can camp. You need to be a specified distance from trails, roads, shelters, water, etc. All the info should be at their web site:

www.nps.gov/shen

[wilconow]

Thanks..

From my experience on the AT in the park, there seem to be very few good places to set up a tent anywhere a short distance from the trail. seems like the best advice would be to tell people to plan on the huts

[jlb2012]

The biggest problem with legal backcountry camping in SNP is Skyline Drive - to be legal you need to be more than 0.25 miles from SD which is somewhat difficult considering how close the AT is to SD

The other problem with backcountry camping and the AT in SNP is that the AT is mainly on the ridge line and as a result water sources are not overly common along the AT and where the water is easy to get (picnic and front country camping areas) its either illegal to camp or expensive to camp thus leaving the shelter sites as probably the best choice.

[wilconow]

thanks everyone. next time someone calls the patc with that question i will be better prepared!

[bigcranky]

There are tent sites near each hut in Shandandoah. However, except for Pass Mountain Hut -- which had the best tent sites I've ever seen -- the tent sites are constructed in such a way that any rain water runs directly through the site and under your tent. This can be a bit of a problem when you carry a tarp or tarp tent (ask me how I know this <grin>). The one tent site we stayed at in the Smokies had the same problem.

The sites at the Pass Mountain Hut are cut into the hillside, but they have been contructed with large trenches to route the water around the tarp/tent/etc. (Many thanks to Dr Dick and Skyline, maintainers of that hut.) This is not something that you would do every night to your own tent, but it's a great idea for tent sites near a hut. If they are going to force me to camp on the side of a steep hill, they need to make sure that rain water doesn't drain through the site.

So you can stay at a hut, meet other hikers, keep your food on a bear pole, and sleep in your tent. It's all good <g>.

[Skyline]

There are tent sites near each hut in Shandandoah. However, except for Pass Mountain Hut -- which had the best tent sites I've ever seen -- the tent sites are constructed in such a way that any rain water runs directly through the site and under your tent. This can be a bit of a problem when you carry a tarp or tarp tent (ask me how I know this <grin>). The one tent site we stayed at in the Smokies had the same problem.

The sites at the Pass Mountain Hut are cut into the hillside, but they have been contructed with large trenches to route the water around the tarp/tent/etc. (Many thanks to Dr Dick and Skyline, maintainers of that hut.) This is not something that you would do every night to your own tent, but it's a great idea for tent sites near a hut. If they are going to force me to camp on the side of a steep hill, they need to make sure that rain water doesn't drain through the site.

So you can stay at a hut, meet other hikers, keep your food on a bear pole, and sleep in your tent. It's all good <g>.


Thanks Ken. It took a lot of sweat equity to get the sites to the condition you found them in (enlarging, levelling, digging out 100s of rocks, creating erosion control devices, covering the sites with pine needles)--but surprisingly very little effort to keep them in that condition by doing minor rehab work every three months or so.

The credit for the actual location decisions of all tentsites near huts in the Park goes to SNP Ranger Steve Bair and his team, plus the Park's Cultural Research folks who needed to make sure the sites didn't encroach upon anything historic.

The credit for the design of improvements of the Pass Mt. tentsites goes to a previous project successfully completed at Annapolis Rock when that camping area was rehabbed a few years ago. It has been the subject of a major feature in ATC's magazine.

I believe that most, if not all, of the tentsites near huts in SNP could be made as accommodating as those you can find today at Annapolis and at Pass Mt. With a clear will to do so, there could also be campuses of tentsites located in strategic locations along SNP's AT route roughly halfway between each existing overnight hut. But it will take more volunteerism.

Dr. Dick is also the maintainer at Rock Spring Hut in SNP, and he has indicated a desire to do something similar with the tentsites there as his time permits. I've offered to do the first one with him as a demo project.

Skyline

[bigcranky]

Hey, Skyline,

Thanks for the additional info. I have some general idea about how much work and effort goes into maintaining the trail, but the specifics always blow me away.

Oh, and thanks for feeding us last June at Pass Mountain Hut. The cold drinks and fresh fruit were especially nice <grin>, and the chicken and homemade cake hit the spot.

--Ken

[Skyline]

I am planning on hiking the Shenandoah section of the AT over seven days, NOBO, during the second or third week of October. I did some searches on the subject but I still have more logistics questions:

1. Nighttime temps? What rating of bag to bring?
2. Will mid-October be too early for fall foliage here?
3. Can anyone recommend a good parking spots at each end of the park?
4. I'm planning on meeting a group of friends for the last 30 miles of the trail. Can someone recommend a good meeting spot, preferably a tenting area?
5. Besides Old Rag, are there any other must-see side trips here?

Thanks in advance, guys & gals!


1. 20-degree bag should be fine. You could hit a cold snap but typically temps would not go below 20 at NIGHT. Pack an extra layer of clothes for sleeping and you should cover that possibility.

1a. I would be more concerned about the DAYS when you have rain in the 35 to 45-degree zone. That's prime hypothermia weather shortly after you stop for rests, lunch, or to set up camp.

2. Foliage change at the upper elevations should be happening by mid-October. Later in lower elevations. If we have the right conditions followed by a lot of wind, the change might even be past prime at the highest elevations by then.

3. Inn at Afton near Rockfish Gap, and the 4-H Center in Harmony Hollow. Both require that you sign a release form and park where told.

4. You could meet your friends at Thornton Gap (intersection of Skyline Drive and US211), in the parking lot for the now-closed Panorama Restaurant. That's about 25 +/- miles south of the 4-H Center mentioned above. It's about a mile hike north from TG to Pass Mt. Hut, with an overnight shelter and nearby tentsites. Your friends can get their own backcountry permit (required, free) at the self-reg kiosk near the "eastern" end of the upper parking lot.

5. Old Rag is the best known side trip, and is actually best accessed by driving east on US211, then south on US522, south on VA231, and follow the signs. Best done on a weekday; way too crowded to enjoy on weekends.

5a. Other good side trips include the Jones Run/Doyle River Loop in the South District; and the Rose River Loop and the Cedar Run/White Oak Loop in the Central District. These can all be done by leaving the AT at one point and rejoining the AT further north but of course you miss pieces of the AT this way. There are also loops in the North District but since you'll be meeting friends and seem to have a limit on miles for them I did not go there.

Getting the 3-map PATC set (better than the National Geographic map IMHO) and the accompanying guidebook should answer most of the other questions that are sure to arise, but if not please ask.

[rswanson]

You guys are all awesome Thanks for all the info, its making the of planning this trip a breeze. Thanks for the great detail Skyline, especially on the suggested meeting point info. I couldn't have asked for better. I've been to SNP as a tourist down Skyline Drive, but this will be my first visit as a hiker. I'm really looking forward to checking out your handiwork on that shelter and other areas of the trail. It sounds top notch!

[Blissful]

"Guide to Shenandoah National Park & Skyline Drive" by Henry Heatwole is one that i use.....

have good hike!

I have the real old guide back from the 1980's that he wrote. Is there anything updated? (Not that many trails are updated in SNP. They still have the same concrete posts there since I was a kid).

[rainmaker]

Help! Madame and I will also be on the trail in early October, going from Rockfish Gap to Front Royal. The Online Companion lists two motels approx. three miles west of Swift Run Gap on US 33. Are these distances accurate and does anybody have any experiences with these two establishments they would like to share. Also are there any resturants nearby?

[Skyline]

A few years ago when I used to be the Companion field editor for that section, I added those two motels. Can't remember the names right now, but as you're heading west on US33 toward the town of Elkton, the motel on the right was the more hiker-friendly. At least back then.

No restaurants up there, just a convenience store a short walk west on US33 where they have limited fast food and resupply. If you continue west on US33 (suggest a hitch) the town of Elkton has a few restaurants.